Healing Hearts: Dr. Kirk Milhoan On Faith, Medicine, & Global Missions
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Hello, this is Richard Jacobs with the Finding Genius podcast. My guest today is Kirk Mahone. We're going to talk about, well, he's a medical director, first of all, for Hearts and Souls. I'm going to talk about the healing power of Jesus Christ. So welcome, Kirk. Thanks for coming. Thank you, Richard. It's a pleasure and a privilege to be with you today. Yeah, tell me a bit about your background, and then we'll talk about, you know, Hearts and Souls, what it's about. Sure.

Yeah.

And fortunately, I made my way to a Youth for Christ meeting. And I heard I really heard the gospel for the first time, at least how I understood it. And so I met with the leader the next day and gave my life to Jesus Christ. And since I was eight, I wanted to be a doctor. And so I was in high school. I was planning on being a doctor. I went went to college and then I wanted to be a doctor for astronaut.

But I remember when I and so I finished college and then went on to get actually my Ph.D. because I was going to get my Ph.D. in space physiology. And I thought that would help me to be a good astronaut doctor. And right as I was about ready to start use some UCSD for my physiology Ph.D., Challenger blew up.

And so I went into cardiovascular research in looking at what causes heart defects or heart damage when people have heart attacks. But I still wanted to be a doctor. I still wanted to be a medical doctor. So five years later, and during that time, I was able to adopt our son. And I was going through a real struggle of...

what does it mean to have an unconditional love of the Father? And I kept feeling that I wasn't doing well enough. And I sort of fell into some lands of trying to be legalistic so I could feel better and tried really, really, really hard never to sin. But I became pretty miserable, I think, even to be around. And so one of my favorite authors was Chuck Swindoll, and he wrote a book called Grace Awakening. And I read that book and I started understanding a little bit more, but I still didn't

really understand it firsthand. I read it, I understood it by head knowledge, but I really didn't know it in my heart. And so we picked up our, the adopted son, Drew, from the hospital at 23 hours old. We picked him up and I was there when he was 20 minutes old, still getting some low bioxygen. So I'd been with him and from the very, he's 36 years now, and I've been with him from the very beginning. But I was taking him to his doctor's appointment. And as the doctor was examining him, he was about four days old at this point. He lifted up

both of his arms. And I could see that something was different between both arms. One arm had like two ligaments and one only had one ligament. And I heard the doctor say, hmm. And he goes, yeah, he's missing a muscle, one of the muscles of his chest. And sometimes I think that's associated with heart defect. And so we're going to have to run some more tests. And I

And I was sort of done. But as I got, we were living in San Diego at that time. So as I got in my car and I started driving, driving away, I remember where I was. I was on the 805 freeway going over the five freeway. I looked at him in my car seat. Back then you could have him in the front seat. So I looked at him and I started to cry. And that emotion, that emotion surprised me.

And I thought, there's actually nothing that he has done for me. He wakes me up in the middle of the night. I have to feed him. I have to change him. He pees and poops. I've got to clean up that mess. He hasn't said, I love you. He hasn't given me a kiss. He hasn't done anything for me. But I realized I loved him. And all of a sudden, it clicked.

that my Heavenly Father loves me like that, but even a purer, better way. And so that was a real transformative time of taking me to a deeper level of understanding God's love for me. Then I was invited to go to Mexico with some medical students, and they were going on a medical mission down there. And I realized that I really enjoyed taking care of kids more than adults. I had always loved kids, but I'd never...

I always thought it would be too hard to take care of kids when they were sick. But I didn't find that to be true in my own life. And so at that point, as I was still a graduate student, I thought, wow. And I wrote myself a note. And I'm glad I wrote myself a note because I would have forgotten. But a number of years later, I pulled out this note and it says, Kirk, never forget about the girl with the shoes.

And I had forgotten, but it reminded me of this girl I saw down in Mexico. And it was only 17 miles from where I was going to graduate school to the next door right across the border. Here's a girl who didn't even have the same shoes. She had two different shoes on. That was where God really touched my heart in terms of I didn't choose where I was born. She didn't choose where she was born. But while our lives were different, our opportunities were different.

And that's where I sort of committed myself wanting to do medical missions with at least part of my time when I eventually became a doctor. So that's sort of how I got to that point of doing medical missions, wanting to do medical missions. So I finished my PhD, went on to get my MD. The Air Force paid for my way to go to medical school. When I got out of that, when I finished my medical school, the Air Force chose me to be in their pediatric program in Northern California at Travis Air Force Base. And then I

I went down to, and I got selected to be a pediatric cardiologist in the Air Force. That means we take care of the children of airmen, Army, Navy, Marines who have heart defects.

And so in my training now, on my way to becoming a pediatric cardiologist in the Air Force, I had the opportunity. I was someone told somebody who knew me at church, who knew a clown ministry that went down to Mexico, that there was this girl down in Mexico, just in Sonata, about 100 miles south of the border, who had a heart defect. And so I got a portable echocardiogram, took it down there while I was still a cardiology fellow, and diagnosed her with a relatively simple thing we could do in the cath lab. It took me about

two to four months to get her up to the cath lab. And we took her in the cath lab. She went to sleep and we put a catheter up through her leg into the heart and ballooned this valve. And the story of Ellie Flett was that her dad was told she had a heart murmur and she had a heart problem when she was born. And if you don't get her fixed by 10 years of age, she'll be dead. And when I saw Ellie Flett, she was nine and a half years old. And that father had been laying his hands on this, his little girl every day, praying that God would somehow make a way for her to be repaired. And the

the procedure she had, and she could hardly run 50 feet. She was in such bad situation because she had this tiny little blood flow going to her lungs. And so she could barely do anything a normal nine-year-old would do. So it took me a little while, but I got approval for her to come up for free to UCSD. And we put a balloon across it, opened it up. She went home the next day. And then like six months later, she was running with

with her friends like nobody knew anything had happened. Cool. Yeah. And, you know, being a part of God answering a prayer of a parent is something that is really amazing to be a part of. A friend of mine told me, I don't mean to interrupt, but he said God works through people. So I guess it makes sense that the answer to her prayer, you know, came from God, but it was through your physical action. You're the vessel in that case, you know. Yeah.

One of my favorite verses that I always like to go back to is in Ephesians 2. And I believe all of us have been made for a purpose. And in Ephesians 2.10, it says, For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good work, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them. And boy,

Boy, that's exciting. There's no amount of money that equates to the joy of seeing that father with his daughter and her daughter well. So where did that lead you? And then after that happened, that made a big impression on you. So I said, God, I want to do more of this. This is really cool because I figured I was going to do medical missions, but I didn't know I could do it as a pediatric cardiologist. I thought it'd be as like a general clinic doctor or something like that. So the next time, next place I, in about halfway through my fellowship,

I was invited by Samaritan's Purse Children's Heart Project to go over and help them. I volunteered to go over and help. And they said, well, where do you want to go? And I said, well, I'm just here to help any way I can. And they go, well, we need to train somebody how to use an echocardiogram machine to take ultrasound pictures of the heart in Mongolia. Would you be willing to go? And I said, sure. I've never been to Mongolia, but sure. And so I went there on December 20th and taught the person who they'd never used this type of echocardiogram machine for. And I taught them how to use it.

And for two weeks, I taught. And then a little bit later, I went to Kosovo to help in Kosovo. And then about a year later, I went to Kenya to be a pediatrician while my wife was an intern in doing OBGYN at Tenwick Hospital in outside of in Bomet, Kenya.

I've been asking God, show me more of these cases. I want to do more of these cases. And he showed me a whole bunch of children who were dying because there was no surgery to be done in Africa at that time for children. Fourth of July of 2001, and I was in Kenya, and I'm walking down to a celebration they were going to have. All the Americans that were there were going to celebrate. And I remember I just sent this 11-year-old boy home to die. And

I started crying as I walked. I said, God, if you're going to show me all these kids, you're going to have to give me a way to help them. And he did. He did. So as I kept going back to Mongolia, to date, I've gone to Mongolia 48 times. I started screening. I've screened the entire country for children with heart defects. I've had a number of opportunities to bring teams to do the first open heart surgery on a child in Mongolia.

And then we went to, from Mongolia, we went to Kosovo where I'd been. And then I started going to Kurdistan, Iraq. And so I've been to Mongolia 48 times. I've been to Kurdistan, Iraq 40 times.

And to date, we've done over a total of 700 procedures on kids around the world at no cost to them themselves. And yeah, we were in Tanzania, Papua New Guinea, Zambia, and different parts in Iraq. We've been to Syria. I'm going back in the 1st of May for two weeks, going back to Iraq, to the Kurdish portion of Iraq to do these things. But, you know, it all started with basically me saying to God, here I am, send me. And he did. And I

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How do you identify where to go? Do you pray and look for promptings from the Holy Spirit on which country to go to or where? Yeah, I think that's part of it. I'm always seeking God, like, okay, God, where would you have me go next? Or I get many invitations. I get many more invitations than I can go to. Right now, I have invitations to go to Ecuador, invitations to go to Fiji. I plan on going to Iraq, plan on going back to Papua New Guinea. I have invitations going to Tanzania, to Zambia.

and many other places. And so then I just have to seek God and say, okay, God, where would you have me go? And so what we usually do is look for places where there's someone I can train there. So what I want to do is train the local resources and see if we can. And so I'll spend some time with them maybe for a couple of missions, and then I'll maybe bring in a team to do cardiac catheterizations. And then if it still looks promising, then we'll bring in a surgical team. And so the largest teams I've ever brought were like probably 35 people. And that's when we were doing open heart surgeries and cardiac catheterizations. And

at the same time. So it's much, it's really trying to look at this as I want to follow God and not need. I'm very happy to help need, but I need to know which need God has purposed for me to be involved in, to share the love of Christ. And so what's nice about my specialty is that I see children who have a broken heart, physically broken heart, and they live in countries that they're so poor, they have to have a free gift to get

repaired. And when they get repaired, they have a longer life. And so when I go to places that are maybe strictly Buddhist or strictly Muslim or Hindu or wherever I may go, it ties in very nicely with the gospel because all of us have a broken heart from sin. And there's no way we can pay for our sin.

But Jesus has made a way with a free gift of his grace so that we can have eternal life. So I often find even in countries that you wouldn't expect people to come to Christ, they come to Christ because they've had the beautiful example of God's grace saving their child's life. Just sort of like when my son's missing muscle ended up showing me a deeper love of God that I didn't understand. And so often it's amazing how God uses the most heartbreaking thing to...

really turn beauty from ashes. Getting to be a part of that and see that and getting to see the smile on parents' faces and be amazed by the miracles that are brought from far away to them, that is a true blessing that I get to be a part of it all.

I don't know. How has this affected your prayer life? How has this affected your ability to hear from God when you pray? Do you get promptings on where to go or what's your experience? Yeah, I think a lot of times I've gone without prompting. I mean, to be honest with you, I think sometimes I hear it and go, well, this is good. Other times I'll feel like I think that I spend a lot of time on planes. I spend a lot of time traveling, a lot of time quiet. And I

I hear from God quite a bit. Often it's corrective. I hear from God, but I know my shepherd's voice. There's a way that that fleshly temptations and maybe the temptation of Satan. I know that voice. But when I hear my shepherd's voice and it's just and often it's not an audible voice, just all of a sudden a thought comes over me and I'm like, oh, that's from my shepherd.

I think because of what we're doing, and medically, it's often very scary. It's very scary, but God has not given us a spirit of fear, but it drives us to our knees to pray. We had one situation in Mongolia where the child had a hole in their heart, and we did open heart surgery, and you stop the heart to close the hole, and sew back up the heart, and then usually once you warm it and you give it

good blood again, it wakes up and starts beating. And we had this girl, she was about a nine-year-old girl, and her heart wouldn't start beating. And we tried all the medicine. Nothing would work. We were at our end. We didn't know. Everything looked good.

good. All the numbers looked good, everything, but it just wouldn't start beating. And I called the team in and I said, guys, you just need to start praying for this girl because we don't have anything else to offer. And so we probably had 20 people in the room right next to the door and they started praying. And one of the surgical techs who wasn't in on that operation said that, you know what I saw? I just asked God that he would reach inside that chest and squeeze the heart.

And as they started praying, I was looking on with an echo machine to look at the heart. And all of a sudden, that's exactly what it looked like. It just looked like all of a sudden it had this really big beat. Boom. And it started beating. I don't have anything to say that that was a miracle of God because we were at the end of ourselves, right? We had done everything we could do, but God did an amazing thing. And we got to watch an absolute miracle. So, yeah.

Yeah. I mean, I know it's maybe silly to ask, but I don't know. How often have you seen miracles and or at least answers to prayer? Answers to prayer every trip. Miracles, probably like real miracles. You know, doing heart surgery in a foreign country seems like a miraculous thing to us. But real miracles, like I can't explain. Probably, probably at least four. Like no joke, that was a miracle. We just had one in Kosovo. We thought for sure this baby was dead. Quite sure he was dead. Oh, that was so hard. So hard when you hear the cries of the mom and very hard. Yeah.

And I remember there was four of us around his bed working on him. And all four of us were just crying out to Jesus, saying, Jesus, please come heal the child. Please heal the child. And it took us a little, you know, and he started getting better. You know, we just, I mean, he, all of a sudden he started getting better. We tried some different things and, but we thought it was, he was down too long. We thought he was going to be braiding it. We thought, you know, we came down the next morning. I mean, I expected all through the night to get a call that he was dead. We came down the next morning and it was miraculous. He was breastfeeding and looked super.

We didn't have a, we had no other explanation and I don't want any other explanation except that God was just in his mercy, in his grace, healed this child of parents who were atheists. And we'll see what the Holy Spirit does with that. I mean, I'm sure they were overwhelmingly happy, but did they convert? Did they give any credit to God?

I think we definitely moved them to Thea from atheists. I think that we'll trust that there are some other people around who will continue to minister to them. Some of our nurses are still in contact with the mother, but they got to hear the gospel of Jesus Christ and they got to hear us that the only answer was Jesus. But I have a great story from Iraq. So a lot of times the children with Down syndrome don't get helped. And so we were going to do a surgical mission in Iraq.

And this family came to me with about a six-month-old girl with a big, huge hole in her heart, and she had Down syndrome. And they're pretty hard to take care of early in life, especially in an austere environment. So what we can do is a temporizing measure where we tighten up the pulmonary artery. We wrap something around it, and that protects the lungs until she's old enough to get healed or to get the full surgery. And so we were going to do that. And my wife, who's a pediatric cardiac anesthesiologist, said,

Dr. Kimberly Millen, we went to pick up the baby to pay. And we always said, always pray in the name of Jesus before we go on an operation. And so we had a translator with us. And as we came out of the elevator, dad was standing there with a little baby in his arms. And I said,

we would like to pray. And as I said, pray, he started to cry. And then I said, and we're going to pray in the name of Jesus. And as we said the name of Jesus, he started to sob. And his wife was over in the corner. She couldn't even stand to be a part of this. She couldn't stand to even watch her daughter being handed off to go to surgery. And so we prayed and he was just sobbing as we prayed that God would watch over this surgery and watch over. And I explained to him that

Jesus is, I explained to him from the Quran where it talks about Jesus, that Jesus, his name was Esau. And he was the prophet that actually went straight to heaven. And I said, but he has another name. He has a name. He's a healer. He's the great physician. And so we took the kid to surgery. The kid did fine in surgery. I saw him back in six months and the father comes to see me and he goes, I've never forgotten about the fact that

that you told me about the healing God, Jesus. And then I hadn't seen him for a while. And I heard that he had come to one of the international churches in Kurdistan. And he was talking to one of the pastors about me and his relationship with me and what had happened with his daughter. And that he was very interested in faith. And then the next thing I got was a picture of him. He was in charge of Bible distribution for the Bible Society for all of Kurdish Iraq.

Yeah. So that was a pretty amazing thing from taking a person in a Muslim family and praying over the name of them in the name of Jesus, describing that he was the great physician to a person eventually converting and being in charge of all Bible distribution in Kurdistan. So it is amazing. Yeah. So, you know, it's just like I think a lot of times people think, oh, we couldn't we shouldn't put our religion on them or anything like that. But we have the words of life.

There's no other name under heaven that has been given by which men may be saved. And I have a ministry and a gift I can give to people that opens a lot of doors where evangelists can't go. What do you mean? I mean, you can't go. Oh, because they're closed countries. You've been able to go? I mean, it just, yeah.

You haven't run into obstacles or the obstacles clear after prayer or what do you mean? Yeah, no. Yeah. I mean, I run, there's obstacles all the time, but I've been able to go to different countries within Iraq that if they don't allow evangelists to come, you'd say you're a pastor or something. They look you up. They probably won't give you a visa and we can come in. I've had numerous different cities and Muslim countries welcome me because I was coming.

And they knew I was a Christian, but they would welcome me because I was bringing free heart surgery for their children. So, yeah, it's sometimes God gives us as our purpose an audience that other people don't have. And so what do we do with that audience? And how do we demonstrate God's love even through simple acts of service? I've seen God do miraculous things with our simple offerings of service and love. Amazing. Yeah. I mean, what...

I know you're doing these ministries and everything, but is there a teaching component where other people that want to do similar ministries to you, do you teach them? Or is there an organization that does that? Or do people that you do, they just jump in and figure it out with no training? I think that this has been for me, it's been going on for 25 years now. So a lot of it, I think how God taught me along the way of how do I minister? How do I use medicine in a way that

honors and glorifies him and encourages the families that I see. So a lot of it was learning on the way and having a strong desire and staying in God's word and understanding what God said and having a heart for people, regardless of what their religious background is, whatever their ethnicity is, whatever their government is, and just having a heart for people.

I have lots of, I have hundreds of people come with who have started different ministry in different ways in different places. But I always welcome people to come with me and they can see what we do. I think what's important to us is that we share the gospel of Jesus Christ, not only indeed with our actions, but also in word so they can hear why we're here. But that usually comes up naturally. People will ask us, why are you here? Why'd you come?

Oh, really? Yeah, we wouldn't leave the U.S. Why would you come and give free medical care away? I wouldn't do this for free. Do they tell you in the destination country or they tell you here in the U.S.? Sometimes in the U.S., but mostly in the destination country, they ask us that. Why'd you come? We're not used to people giving things away to us for free. So then when they see us giving away things free, then we can say, well, we do it because that's the example of Jesus Christ to us. He gave us our salvation for free. So that's how often we use it.

Well, if you're going that far, how could you not tell the people that you're coming so they could expect you and prepare? But, you know, what if you get there and... No, people wait for me. They know when I'm coming. Okay. But when you come, they say why did you come? No, they don't understand what my motivation was. Oh.

Oh, okay. They know what I'm there for, but they're used to being charged. They're used to... And the doctors in the hospital want to know, why do I come and do this? When I go to really poor countries, why do you come and do this for our poor? Why do you not ask for money? So no, there are lines of people when we come. There are hundreds to thousands of people waiting when we come, but they're curious on why we do it for free. Wow. That's amazing that you do it at all. That's really great. How many...

I guess to put numbers on it, how many people have you helped? I've probably screened around, given diagnosis to over 20,000 people. And I've done probably, yeah, like I said, about 780 procedures on children, not just doing an echocardiogram, but actually either doing a catheterization, putting in a pacemaker or doing a heart surgery on them.

Have you trained other people to do this alongside of you? Is there a lot of it? In Mongolia, I've trained seven pediatric cardiologists in Mongolia. I've trained probably five pediatric cardiologists in Kurdistan. In Kosovo, I've been involved in probably training four pediatric cardiologists. But I bring a team with me. I have people train the anesthesiologist, the pharmacist, the surgeon, the nurse. So what we try to do is whenever we go on a mission, for every one of us, there's another one that we've

evaluated in the country we're going to that'll be one-on-one instruction. So eventually they'll be able to do heart surgery on their own. And we've seen that in countries. So we don't even go to, like I said, I made 48 trips to Mongolia and I've left them off and running. Kosovo is off and running on its own. Kurdistan is off and running.

Wow. You picked these places because you just felt led to go there or? Yeah, like I might have gotten a phone call. I might have gotten an introduction. And then usually I'll go by myself to check out the country, check out the situation and then wait to see, OK, God, are you in this? Is this something you want us to do? And then I spend time in prayer, feel if it feels right in my spirit. And then usually what I'll do is I'll take a small team and then if that goes well, we'll take a bigger team.

What, I don't know, are there any of the places you've gone where you were just amazed by the people or they've all been amazing? Like any other particular stories that stand out to you? You know, when we get to do firsts and they're amazed, I love to hear them where we thought we had no hope. And then the team came in and we had hope. I love to hear stories, and I have a number of them, you know. I love to hear stories that we've been praying and we've been praying and praying and now God has finally answered our prayers.

The stories I like the most is when people give God the glory rather than us. I like it when they have something wonderful happen to them, and then they say, wow, we prayed to God and he answered, and we just got to be a part of his plan. Oh, okay. You didn't feel, well, I guess your ego didn't rise up at all and say, hey, it was me coming here. It didn't bother you at all, huh? Usually not. I mean, one of my favorite quotes is, if you play God, don't be surprised if you get blamed for natural disasters. So-

If people want to live with the like, wow, I saved this child's life, then you have if you're going to take responsible for saving a child's life, then you got to take responsible for a child dying. So I believe that that God is the keeper of life. He's the he is the the air in our lungs and life.

He knows the days. And I can do... So I look at it that way, that I am just... I am being obedient to God's healing plan. C. Everett Koop one time said... He's an old-time surgeon general of the U.S., but he was a pediatric surgeon. And he said, I can put two pieces of skin together, but it's God who sends everything to heal it. All I've done is tie it together. But without the healing touch of God, things don't repair, and they don't last. So...

I think this is just years of walking with God and him showing me so many different things that he is the true healer. And we will do what's possible and we will leave the impossible to him. Each time you go and this happens, I mean, you're...

Do you feel like your faith is strengthened or is just reaffirmed? Or like, how do you feel? Oh, yeah. I mean, I do pray, though. I ask him, I go, God, can your will be done without anybody dying this trip? Because, you know, God even uses death sometimes of children to have a dramatic impact on the family. I've seen that happen many times. You mean? I've watched...

A very strong faith come out of a mother who's looking for solace after her child died. Sometimes I've found that the people who have had a child die have ended up with a stronger faith than those who had a surgery that was successful. And I think it's because those who've had a child die still need comfort, so they still seek the presence of God.

I think people that we do surgery on, it's all very successful and there's no complications and everything goes well. It's sort of like the 10 lepers that only one came back and nine left without ever coming back and saying thank you. It's like being a believer in God when you're in the foxhole. But once you get home, you forget about all the promises you made to God. So God always amazes me with his economy. But I always pray that I never have to give news to a mother again.

The tragic news to a mother that her child has died. That is not something I enjoy doing. Yeah, for sure. Even if God redeems it in some way. But the cries of a mother who's just lost their child is, it just goes in the very deepest part of you and just, it hurts.

Yeah, sort of like when Jesus says, you know, smile with, laugh with those who laugh and cry with those who cry. And we do. And we do. So, but fortunately, you know, out of all the, all the trip we've gone on and all the kids we've taken care of, we've only lost five out of those 780. So praise be to God for that. We've had very rare situation of death on our trip. That's good. That's good. Yeah. Do you do these podcasts, reach out to Grow the Ministry to get other people to go with you? Or like, why, why do you, did you come today?

You don't need to, and I appreciate it. Oh, yeah. No, to bring glory to God. I want to let your good works be known by men so that they may glorify your Father in heaven. I want God to be glorified by these things. I want people to see that, wow, there are people who are in need all around the world. 99% of the world's kids...

who need heart surgery don't get it. 99%. And there are things that we can do. I leave the growing of the ministry to God. He is a great provider for our ministry. I just come to, I want to tell a story of a boy who grew up in a trailer park, ended up becoming a doctor, and now goes around the world helping kids. And all because I said to Jesus when I was 15, please be my savior. And then I told him in graduate school, I told him, here I am, send me. Everything else is his plan and his

He's leading of me. So I like to just look at him as I love this 23rd Psalm. I like to look at him and follow him as closely as I can. And he leads me on incredible adventures. And so if anything, I'd want to encourage others to say to God, here I am, send me to wherever it is. And it might be across the street, might be next door or might be around the world. Were you afraid ever when you said that to him that where you would go?

No, I haven't been afraid. That's not, I'm afraid like that. I've been in some situations have been pretty scary. Sudan was pretty scary. Fallujah and Tikrit and Karbala were pretty scary. So, but you know, what I've always tried to put it into is remember he's my good father. And so if he's taking me a place, whether he takes me to, you know, prepare a table for me in the presence of my enemies, or he walks me through the valley of the shadow of death, he's there. So it's just, it's many years of, you know, I've been walking with him for

45 years. And I've come to know and trust my Savior very deeply. And he takes us on great adventures if we'll just follow him, you know. Excellent. Well, Kirk, thank you so much for sharing your stories and for coming on the podcast for all that you do to help people. Well, thanks for having me on. Thanks that you have an opportunity for us to bring glory to God for what a great God he is. So thank you. If you like this podcast, please click the link in the description to subscribe and review us on iTunes.

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