News With Roots: Steve Abramowicz On Preserving Hometown Journalism In A Digital Age
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Hello, this is Richard Jacobs with the Fine Engineering podcast. My guest today is Steve Abramowitz. He's the publisher of Heartland Journal. The website is heartlandjournal.com. He's also host of the Heartland Journal podcast. So we're going to talk about his work there and what he does and should be an interesting conversation. So welcome, Steve. Thanks for coming. Thanks for inviting me, Richard. How are you? I'm doing okay. Today's my podcast day. So you'll be one of several, but I

I enjoy, I love Fridays, my podcast days. So I'm learning. The 13th, you and me, Jason Borheath. Oh, no, that's right. So tell me about the Heartland Journal. I haven't had much experience with it. What's the premise of it? What's it about? Well, thanks for asking. The Heartland Journal is my baby. It's heartlandjournal.com. It's spun out of a...

a newspaper, the old-fashioned kind print hometown newspaper started in the oh, tippy-tippy top of the Pacific Northwest about 45 minutes north of Seattle, a small town called Mill Creek. And so it was called the Mill Creek View Hometown Newspaper. And the founder passed away of COVID, but during COVID. And

And I, for lack of a better phrase, say inherited it and got it back up and running. And through that process, I created a website. And then I created a podcast because I was a connoisseur of podcasts. I was a lover of podcasts. I spent a lot of time listening to podcasts, especially during COVID when you couldn't do anything else but go outside and listen to it. And last April, a little over a year ago, I rebranded it to Heartbreak.

Heartlandjournal.com. Sold the hometown print newspaper because it was a chore. It was really difficult, but spun it out into Heartlandjournal.com where you get daily news e-letter that is basically covering the media situation

stories from the heartland that the mainstream won't. We don't care as much about LA unless they're having riots or we don't care about New York. It's a homeless crisis or a defund the police thing. And we don't care about DC as much except for state capitals. We're much more about states than we are about the national stuff and get that elsewhere. So it's been very successful. We enjoy that. Same thing with the podcast, 350 something episodes, always an interesting guest making a positive change in our community. And it

And it is really just been a labor of love and I do love it. Usually when people say that it means that they, it's a chore and they don't like it. I've really enjoyed it and it gives me the opportunity to meet people like you to talk about things

things like this because it is unique. It is a sort of a niche in its market of news and infotainment because that's the kind of guests we invite and that's the kind of stories we cover. Like I said, you cannot flip on CNN at five, six or seven and see these stories because they don't care about them. All right. Tell me about the when you did the newspaper, what was some of the cool things that you really enjoyed about it? You know, we could always talk about the difficulties, but

I don't know what surprisingly cool things happened from doing it. It was amazing, actually. The first cool thing is that I even fell into it because it wasn't my destiny. It wasn't my day job. It wasn't anything that I signed up to do or applied for. I was I got a phone call and I was told, hey, you know, Fred Philbrook.

who had moved from Michigan in 1992 and established this Mill Creek view that Mill Creek really hadn't even incorporated yet. Actually, side note, Bill Gates's father incorporated the city of Mill Creek outside of Seattle where they lived. And he created this hometown newspaper. And it was a paper that was a lot different than the competitors in the area, the Linwood Times or the Everett Herald.

And so he still had it delivered by kids, like young kids. And so one of those young kids happened to be my own daughter when we moved into Mill Creek because nobody else was hiring during COVID. And so by her getting a job of newspaper delivery door to door, I had a job because she couldn't drive yet. So I had to go and sit in the neighborhoods while she would do her route and then pick her up. And so in the course of that, I would go if there was...

one paper too little or too, too many, I would take them back to the shop and I would talk to Fred and I got to know him a little bit. He happened to be an 82nd Airborne veteran and a heck of a karaoke singer. And so he got to know me and I, of course, I'd pick up her checks. He got to know me a little bit and then within the, not even a year when he went into the hospital, they wouldn't

honor his spousal marital rights because COVID had these protocols. And so his wife couldn't visit him. And so she started talking to me. And when she went in finally to visit with him, and it happened to be the very end, she said, Fred, you've created this amazing traditional staple of the community. What do you want to do with it if something happens to you and you don't get out of the hospital? And he said, call Steve. And I said, why?

why did he say call Steve? And they were very nice. They took me out to dinner and one of the contributors happens to be named Vincent Cavallari and he's a deputy sheriff in Snohomish County where this paper was a staple and he is also on the city council. So very important for his brand of, you know, to be elected, to be spokesman for the city. And they sat me down over steak at a restaurant called The Keg and said, hey, we really want you to do this. What do you think? And I said, well,

okay, I'm happy to help my new neighbors. I just moved there, like I said, but I got to know Vince and I knew what he was all about. And I had only ever written one column for my college newspaper and it happened to be on St. Patrick's Day bar crawling. And I only did it so I could get the press pass so I didn't have to stand in line. But I said, okay, but I know a thing or two about business. I think I could probably do this in a

just for one reason to keep the kids employed because I thought that was so wholesome so Americana so wonderful and we did it and so I said I would do a tribute edition for Fred which was the new kid had you know when he was sick it obviously was on hold for let's say three or four weeks I can do a tribute edition for Fred and then I'll get it back to its regular scheduled rotation

And that was four and a half years ago. So I did it and I kept going. I liked it so much. I started writing my own column. I started, like I said, the website so people can see more timely news instead of it was a once every two week paper, by the way. And so instead of being once every two, it goes every day.

And the podcast, because there were a lot of voices in the Pacific Northwest that were not being heard leading up to that election. And if you'll remember that, it was a pretty contentious election, midterms of Trump's first term. And so that gave me a lot of access to folks that Seattle Times, Cairo, these local channels, they weren't going to talk to them. So I did.

I said, sure, I'll do it. And so we had a great little niche again to spread the word. And I used to read the newspaper in the first half so that could spread a little further, get into the Linwood Times neighborhoods and, you know, up there into Herald where they don't get it because we couldn't deliver it.

by kids door to door up there. And yeah, like I said, it was phenomenal. Then I moved to Tennessee for a whole nother set of circumstances, but I was still running it from here. But I realized that I just couldn't cover the local flavor from here. It didn't make any sense anymore, even though it was an opinion thing.

paper but they did have you know the city hall the news that comes out of there the local police blotter the fourth of july parade upcoming you know to advertise this i just couldn't do anymore so i gave it over to another entity that's still doing it to this day same mission keep those kids learning

earning a couple bucks, getting a job that you can't do. You know, you can't work at McDonald's if you're 8, 9, 10 years old, but you can deliver papers. And this moved to this, heartlandjournal.com, who you're basically interviewing me, representing now today. And that's been over a year plus, and it's just been great. The subscriber growth has been amazing. We just did our first annual crossover.

Heartland Journal Awards that I was motivated to create for all the subscribers and non-subscribers to vote on their favorite candidates of the contest, best actor, best actress, best female singer, best male singer, because the CMAs, the big guys, canceled theirs because of budget cut. So I said, well, that's not, you gotta honor these artists for their hard work and we all love them and we want them to continue on, so let's do our own. So we created our own statuette

beautiful, made in Amish country that will be the hand delivering to the four winners. And we got a lot of votes and people forwarded it around and did it. So it's basically living up to its name, Heartland. It's giving, it's, it's, it's covering the Heartland. So what's, um, I don't know, what sense do you get of your local community because you do this? You probably have a very different sense than most people that live in a place. I do. I do. So by converting it to Heartland Journal, I basically decided to go national and

Because we will cover Wall Street. You know, I always like to say it's the Heartland Journal like the Wall Street Journal, only everywhere else. But we will. Same thing with L.A. and New York. We will cover the major media markets if something happens. But primarily we're covering, say, Wyoming or the fires that they had there or this new spill that just happened in Ohio. You don't hear that on the evening news, shockingly. That's very, very important. And so I'm trying to fill in that void.

of lack of news. And so what I discovered is that that's what people are very hungry for. And so it spun off into some music,

production it's into a TV show that's in development that's very Heartland ish that can't get picked up by let's say Warner or Netflix movies as well some actors and actresses that Hollywood does doesn't want to hire anymore either they're too old their politics is wrong they don't fit the casting that they're looking for so we're looking for projects that are

are great but just can't get made but we don't want it to be like Hallmark Channel where it's kind of you know hokey and low budget we want to do some good stuff so that's what we've learned is that there's the yeah I mean I

I can see all these players that are right that they'll get airtime, but how different is your perspective versus the perspective people get from national news? Like, the stories that you guys cover, I don't know, I would say they're just as important, but is the world totally different in how it looks based on what I would hear on your news versus the major news? Sometimes I think the answer is yes because, uh,

not just natural disasters and such, but when you see like the chemical leak prompts entire Ohio town to be evacuated, that's pretty important.

I didn't hear that on MSNBC, right? So where else are you going to get it but here? Now, we don't get down to the level of sports scores at the local high school or maybe the city council race. But if I see something that looks like it has national repercussions, I'll do it. And so one of the interesting things for me, I don't know if you've been following this, but a lot of circuit court judges have been making some pretty powerful national injunctions, which is basically like,

Somebody who's not supposed to has been passing laws that tell like the president of the United States what he can and cannot do. Well, those circuits are...

local markets that are not always the Ninth Circuit, which usually gets the headlines, which would be California and Oregon and Washington, right? So if I see something from the Sixth Circuit, that's Ohio, Kentucky, Tennessee, where I am, I can report it because it has national repercussions, but you're not going to see it in the LA Times. You're not going to see it in the New York Times. So I'm not saying that they never do it,

But they don't do it as often as I do it, which is every day. So when I see something in Virginia, if I see something in, you know, U.S. Department of Education notifies Columbia University, a creditor of Columbia's Title VI violation. Well, you're not going to hear about that on Channel 5, you know. So I find it to be a angle or a perspective that is important, national implications are

only not covered by the national news. You know, Texas ends in-state tuition for illegals hours after Trump DOJ files lawsuit. Well, if you live in Texas and you only watch Rachel Maddow, you're not going to know that. But if you subscribe to my e-newsletter, you'll have seen that in your inbox. And that may matter to you if your child is looking for college coming up here pretty soon, but you might not have known. And that's one of the things I find out is I'll talk to people and I'll say, hey, did you know this, that, or the other thing about your own state? And they'll say, no, I

I actually had no idea. So it kind of can affect voting habits. It can make decisions like what college they may or may not want to go to, what job may be in danger. And in the Ohio case, which is very extreme, you may not be able to go outside. Did you know that? And odds are your local news will cover that, of course, but the big guys won't. So if you have a relative in Ohio, you may want to just reach out and say, hey, how are you doing? I just read in the heartlandjournal.com that

there was a nitric oxide spill. That sounds bad. And they can say, yeah, it's really bad or not. You know what I'm saying? Do you see that politicians are paying attention to what's on national news or paying attention to the stuff that you cover? Do they know even what's going on in their own state or their own caucus area? And do they care or

Or do they just seem to just follow the big news or the national stuff that's covered on the big channels? I think they do. And this is how this all started. So when I was in Washington state, it's a very liberal state. No question about it. Just look at the voting record. I'm not judging. And the Republicans, who are a minority party there,

did not get any mouthpieces, didn't get any press coverage during that election I mentioned. And so where else were they going to go? They come to me. So what they knew about me, because they knew that if they wanted to be heard, even in their primary, when they were fighting against each other to figure out who's going to take on the Democrat in the big show. So when I brought that here to Tennessee, I had experience and practice and all the doors open. So same thing, only this time, the majority Republicans are also not being heard.

by their local media because let's face it, it's very liberal. And, uh,

the Tennessean, for example, you would think like, oh, Tennessee, red state, they probably have a very conservative minded media. No, they don't. They do not. They're owned by folks who are liberal minded. So they come on my show and I've had people all the way up to state's U.S. Senator, Marsha Blackburn, Congressman Tim Burchett, and then local folks, Senate Majority Leader Jack Johnson, Jody Barrett, Assemblyman Gino Bolso, like almost all of them. And so really, I have 80 hours of transcripts

transcripts and interviews in person with these individuals. So I'm making a documentary called hashtag what is a TN Republican, Tennessee Republican, because all those voices actually, when you think of it in terms of in Tennessee, they probably know pretty well, but the other 49 states have no clue what it means to be a conservative Republican in Tennessee. And it's just very possible that

It could help places like where I've had interviews with the Freedom Caucus members from Wyoming or Nebraska or South Carolina because they also have problems with their own politicians in their own state, whether they be Republican or Democrat, to figure out how can we have a actual platform? How can we actually have principles? How can we actually have a movement or a party and say that we're...

anything different than what CNN tells us we are. And that's the problem is that they've created the narrative of who they are and they haven't had an opportunity to say who they are themselves. I give them that. And that's why when I ask them to come on the show, odds are they'll say yes because they understand that...

It's an environment where they actually can voice their opinions. I've had plenty of Democrats on. Don't get me wrong. I'm just trying to give you an example. But when you start talking about the heartland and those state house issues, taxation, regulation, property taxes, clean water, fluoride, these type of things, you'll never hear a D.C. congressman go out in front of the cameras at CNN and talk about that back home because

They only talk about big issues like the Iran-Israel fight or whether the National Guard can be used in LA when Gavin Newsom doesn't want it and Trump says yes. That's what they always talk about. The one little 500 people ruling all of us, whereas I want to talk to the folks in Nebraska or Utah and say, why did you decide that you did finally want to take fluoride out of your water? And you

you'd be surprised. You'd be like, nobody's ever asked me that. I'm like, well, yeah, that's pretty important. 88% of the state of Tennessee drinks with fluorided water, fluoridated water. They may want to know that California, the NIH said, it's bad for you. Don't do that anymore. At what level do you see people work for their constituents? And at what level does it appear to drop off? This is my perspective. I think...

I don't know, pretty much most of the people in Congress just are there for their own enrichment. They could give a rip about what happens in their home state, home area. There's a lot of that. There's a lot of that. And I will cover it. I cover a lot of the frauds and a lot of the folks who get actually busted for this. You know, sometimes the FBI will bust somebody. But here's what I've learned. All right. Ready? The very, and this is state, not

federal, federal insider trading and all this stuff, of course, they go in with $200,000 of debt and they come out $20, $30 million. I mean, we've documented all that. It happens. But at the state level, it's obviously they talk about the good old boy network and the backroom deals and this, that, and the other thing, and which developer is doing this and that. Yes. But here's what I've learned that's less accusative

and more like science-based. The very first term they go in there as a reformer, they listen to their constituents. They ran on something that the constituents wanted. They give it to them. They're very, very vocal that first term in

in office. The second one, it's about 50% their constituents and 50% the lobbyists who go up there and talk to them every single day, take them out to bourbon and steak dinners, you know, start whispering in their ear about leadership positions and committees and all the wonderful things that they could do while they're there anyway. By the third term, they're 100% all you never hear from them again in your hometown. They stopped doing town halls. That's what I've learned. Oh, okay. And that's pretty universal. You

Well, the two polar opposites, Washington State and Tennessee is all I can speak to from the ground level where I've seen it. Yes. And so when I interview folks like the Wyoming Freedom Caucus chairwoman, who they flipped their entire statehouse from, let's just say, conservative rhino to Freedom Caucus-controlled rhino,

that's who they knocked off. Or if you watch the school vouchers fight in Texas, 77% of the folks up for reelection who voted no on school choice lost their primaries to a conservative member who said that they were for school choice and

Yeah.

next time and then the time after that. And if that pattern continues, like I said, well, it's business as usual. But if they actually go there and say, oh, no, I'm Mr. Smith goes to Washington, I will forever only vote the way my constituents tell me, even if leadership brings all the pressure to bear and just can hold the line. Great. That's a good politician who may want to seek higher office, but that doesn't happen very often. So perhaps term limits might be a very important tool to to limit this behavior.

Term limits would be great because in Tennessee, for example, these guys and gals, they come from very far away. Tennessee is a very big state, two time zones, 95 counties, and they only get like 30 grand for the whole session. And the session goes from January to April. So it isn't even a full-time job. So everybody up there has a different job. So the temptation to say, oh, if I voted this way, that would be great. It's not.

it's there. I'm not going to say it's impossible. And the devil's always like whispering in someone's ear. So there is there, but a term limit...

would be interesting to see if it changes that, but it's not perfect because they get paid a lot of money to be lobbyists once they know where all the doors and bodies are buried, right? They can just stay up there and work full time at the better job that pays better to be able to serve those steaks and whiskey drinks instead of accept them. There's that. And they will never do it because every single legislature in America, all the way up to U.S. Senate and Congress,

They have to legislate it for themselves. And so 51% of them are not going to say, sure, let's change the constitution and put in term limits because we are so corrupt, we are so dirty, so bad that it's the right thing to do. They'd be like, but

but I'll also cut off my nose just by my face. So I don't know. It would have been nice if the founding fathers would have just figured that one out and did it themselves, but it's not there. And I don't see self-correction happening anytime soon. That's why you have to wait for a big scandal to erupt and the feds have to swoop in and somebody's put

you know, $100 bills in their freezer or that one guy who just went down from New Jersey who had gold bars in his underwear. Like, it has to get so bad before they can actually say, we can't defend this one. You got to go between now and then. So yeah, term limits would be nice, but it's wishful thinking because they just won't do it.

Have you ever heard of a sortition? Sortition? Yeah, it's a semi-random choice, you know, elected representatives or positions of power. It wouldn't be completely random, but let's say you're in an organization and you throw your hat in the ring and someone is chosen as random from a pool of people that have thrown their hat in the ring instead of, you know, they're winning an election, let's say, and they would have a term limit and all that. It's a very unusual concept, but it might be something that you want to look into if

again, it's called sortition. It's like a very different way of running an organization. And there may be a couple of organizations in the world that kind of run on it, but she's a very unusual concept for you to consider. It would be, I'm not, I'm not a big fan of things that aren't direct choice of the voter one man, one vote, so to speak. And so like these rank choice voting that happened in Alaska, I'm not a fan of that. I saw them trying to put that in, in Seattle and they were smart enough to realize that didn't work. Um,

There's a lot of voter integrity issues that would prevent really anything. There's also the Convention of States that people talk about, and they also talk about putting term limits into that so that it becomes a constitutional rule that all states would have to follow. But I think that's also a very long shot.

thing. So we're kind of stuck with the system right now. The fact that they were able to even get mail-in ballots and delayed counting of votes past election day and a lot of the other problems that we've seen that they were able to get them in in the first place kind of means they're there to stay. It's very difficult to undo some of this once it's already there. And I wish we could have, you know, go back in a time machine and say, OK, we're not even going to fall for the rank choice voting idea or the mail-in ballot

or the election night becomes election week, becomes election month. All right. But that the Pandora box, Pandora's box is open on that.

What about some of the movements for certain states to redraw their lines or break away like Dexit or Oregon and Idaho, I guess, for considering some of the counties wanted to secede or voted to secede and join Idaho from Oregon? Have you been aware of those kind of stories or dealt with them at all? Absolutely. Yeah. Greater Idaho is supposed to carve out the most conservative part of eastern Oregon.

Oregon and Washington to become this big, beautiful state of Idaho, which is not as conservative as you might think. And I know this because I cover it. It's one of my states that we want to highlight that doesn't get a lot of news. Even the former governor of Washington state, who was responsible for a lot of the damage done, is moving to Idaho as his retirement space. So I'm well aware of it and I love it and I like it because it's grassroots. I think anything grassroots is fantastic. But

But I have to remind people sometimes we fought a civil war over this and that was ugly. And it was the worst time in American history, actually. I don't like studying that time period much, but I do know all about it. The federal government doesn't like the idea of

of any parts of our country pulling off and doing something independent like that because we are a federal government and they all signed the Constitution Pact and even the states that were admitted after 1776. So

I just wish what they would do is they would fix their state houses so that Oregon can be the wonderful state that it has always been and Washington can always be the Washington state. But because they let one party rule it for so long, they drove it away from the original intent, which was to basically serve and protect their voters.

voters, their constituents. And so your only real choice is to move like me. I left Washington state and I moved to Tennessee because I chose that to be the place I wanted to spend the next era of my life. That is probably the best way to do it. Then you stop paying the property taxes and you stop paying the sales taxes and you stop paying, you know, you stop paying into that system that you may strongly disagree with, whether it be religious reasons or economic reasons or

cultural regions, whatever, because we are such a diverse country. I'd much rather see that than all of a sudden we're redrawing lines and then we go from the 50 states to the 500 states where everybody's got their own little special interest, also looking to the federal government to say, help us, help us, because each state's going to get...

two senators and they're going to get five to, if Wyoming has one, but I guess one to 10 congressmen to go back in DC to rally money for their little sliver that keeps getting smaller and smaller as we suction off. So that's why I don't love it. But I like the idea of doing something to tell your state, California would have been split up into, I think, 15 if that proposal had passed. But I just don't see the federal government sitting back and going like, oh, that's great. Let's do that. Right. I don't know.

That'd be 30 new senators. We'd have 130 senators, probably Democrats, to be honest, since it's California, who would vote a certain way. And so what would Trump be doing now with his slim majority of one if he all of a sudden became a minority of 29? Yeah. It's interesting. You see the very different implications of that. That's great. That's why I wanted to ask you. They figure, again, you see things that a lot of people don't see. It's so funny when you talk to people on the street and I do this, they'll know a lot

personalities in D.C. They'll say, oh, did you hear what Jim Jordan said? Or did you hear what Mike Pompeo said? Or did you hear what Donald Trump said? Of course, you know, a lot of that is like, yeah, but did you hear what Governor Lee said? Or did you hear what

Bob Ferguson in Washington said, or Gavin Newsom, or Abbott in Texas, or whatever, whatever, whatever. And I say, no, I don't really get into my local politics. It's like, that affects you more day to day than what Trump said yesterday. I mean, it really almost becomes insignificant to your life when those national TV people, and sometimes I'll get, well, more than not, sometimes I go on

radio shows, podcasts, TV shows as an authority, and they ask me questions. I'll know a lot more about what happened at the state level than the federal level because the federal level doesn't have the same repercussions even though they supposedly are into federalism.

than what they may have just passed in your own state. Not just property taxes, but everything from, you know, what the school board just voted on to keep books in your school or the library of how much money they're going to get or lose. It is amazing to me how they'll know the gossip of D.C., someplace they may never even go or haven't been since high school on a field trip, but they won't know their own state

or their own state congressman or who their representative in their neighborhood is. So have you thought about expanding this to become the Heartland Journal for every state, like Heartland, Alaska, Heartland, Oregon, you know, and create these sub-areas that, you know, you deliberately go and get more news articles and info for all the states and people can subscribe to that. And then they would really know much more what's going on. Yeah. Yeah.

If this thing can take off, like I hope in the next four or five years, including the annual awards that we did, I'd have a tab for every single state. And so there would be 50 tabs with the daily news of 50 states. And if I could get real contributors that would, you know, be on the ground and pay for them to do that journalism, sure. There actually is a website that does that. I'm going to throw a little...

pitch for a friend of mine, Center Square. Center Square, it's not state by state every day, but you can drop down a tab and you'll get like four or five states covered with whatever they find to be relevant with real live humans doing the work, not AI like some of the big guys are doing now like Washington Post. So there is that. I don't want to say that I'm bigger or better than them because I'm trying to cherry pick the most important story of the day, not

drop 50 stories on somebody every day, but one or two that I think are the most relevant from states that they're not going to see. So the answer to your question is sure. I love that. And we kind of do because remember I mentioned the Sixth Circuit and the Ninth Circuit? So much happens in those nine circuits. You really only need to cover one state in those nine on a regular basis to really

cover poignant news that I think people need. They may not know that they need it until it's in their in basket and they can read it or delete it. But that's the key is like if you get an email from Ohio and

and you happen to live in Kentucky, you may think, well, that doesn't apply to me. And then you read the article and you go, oh my gosh, I didn't even realize that I'm going to have to vote that way or I'm going to have to prepare my taxes that way. That's the goal is to give people in the heartland a heads up to what other people in the heartland are dealing with that probably relates to you no matter where you are, unless you only care about the personalities and gossip. I mean, I don't know if

if you do this, I haven't done it a long time, but if you watch like Sean Hannity's show, Tucker Carlson's new podcast, their guests have absolutely no relevance to Missouri.

Really, if you lived in Missouri, you have no reason to watch that show unless you're just entertained, which is what it is. But if you got my email and I said, hey, did you know that they're talking about putting a big toll on that bridge between Missouri and Tennessee? And you may want to, and I'm making this up, that's not a thing, but if they were and you commute that every day to work, that might matter to you, but you didn't hear that on

on your Fox News and I only did that because I talked to these people and they say I didn't I don't read the local news I don't watch the local TV I only watch you know MSNBC 12 hours a day huh I'm

Okay, well, get ready. It's coming. So that's the goal. But it's not just all politics I should mention. I mean, I've had Dean Cain on my show to interview just to talk about Hollywood. I've had authors. I've had people that rescue children. There's a full library of so many interesting voices that make a positive change in all of our communities as Americans that...

in the world that you could really spend hours on the site and never really care about what happened in DC yesterfay to be honest. Are you getting organizations coming to you because you're bringing to light so much data and information that no one else is? I mean, do you think if you get to that point to help you monetize, you could expand the reach of it?

and really cover the issues on the ground everywhere? I sure hope so. I mean, you found me, right? I mean, OAN has had me on and News Nation, and I go on quite often a radio show in Chattanooga where I actually just filled in for the full two hours called The Yaffe Show. So I do get called up to be an authority on certain things, and I do represent the company name, The Heartland, so they know they're not bringing me on to talk about

you know, the SALT III program that's going to be, you know, the Reagan legacy about missiles in Russia. It's going to be about what do I...

hearing in the heartland that people really care about, all those voters, the 150 million voters, not just the 70 they talk about who got the president elected. So yeah, and I do hope that it does continue to take off and that it does keep entertaining people and informing people so that they can prove the concept that I'm running with, that they really want this type of news, not what

what they're getting and this is it goes back to when Rupert Murdoch still kick when he first came to America from Australia the three networks all or all that existed ABC NBC and CBS and so if you wanted to turn into the nightly news didn't matter what channel you're turning into it's the same stuff right then he comes along he says hey half the country doesn't really agree with Walter Cronkite and these guys they have a different opinion and this would be more like the heartland folks the people in middle of the country who really don't care about what happened

in LA but it's interesting then all of a sudden he created he basically took over half the market and became a billionaire so in the last 40 years they've gone back to this there are so many channels but they all have one opinion one narrative one talking point it's the same it's like Twitter watching what trended yesterday and doing your show tonight on that well I

I already know that. I was on Twitter. I saw it. So why do I need to hear what Rachel Natto thinks of it or whoever else? So I'm hoping that they'll say, hey, we haven't checked in on Steve today. Let's go see what happened in a place that I don't actually live, but we're all Americans. So it's probably an important story or else he wouldn't have bothered to put it up there. And of course, every Friday I write my own column, which I really want people to read and understand because that's where my authority comes from. And that's where I'm able to say like, hey, have you thought about that issue from this perspective?

Yeah, it's all well and good that, you know, Ford just reported great earnings this quarter. But what about those layoffs in wherever that, you know, you kind of need to know that like, oh, yeah, there is actually consequences on my street, not just a thousand miles away.

So I would love it if it got picked up and distributed with a bigger server and a larger email list and just went all over the world and became the next big thing. But right now we're just doing our best to meet the deadlines every day and keep people interested and come up with ideas like that contest I told you about so that famous people will know that we exist too. And maybe just maybe endorse it or come on. Oh, I should also mention too that

A lot of the networks, unfortunately, can only cover certain parts of the news because their sponsors want them to and don't want them to, right? You're never going to see on CNN or MSNBC probably a very big expose on Pfizer. You just won't because they pay for it. Now, why would they do that to themselves? And I get that. I don't take advertising money. So if I want to put out a story about Pfizer, they can call me up if they want to, but I am not

told what to say or what not to say. I shouldn't probably pick on one particular company. It could be any company, but I don't take advertising. I don't advertise on the podcast. So I'm not one of these shows where you have to hit fast forward every 45 seconds on the show when they come up to sell you a pillow. I have independence in that way currently. So when, if the time comes, when somebody comes to me and says, we'd love to expand you, we love what you're doing. We think you're right.

They do want this news. Let's do it. I'm going to be very specific as to who I would ever do that with, right? I'm not going to do it with just anybody because all of a sudden the whole flavor has changed and then it's not what I created. It's not what Fred created as his legacy. So, which I'm now responsible for. So that's a long way of saying it.

It's free for now so that I don't have editorial interference from anybody. I just get to do what I think the people want to hear. No, that's great. That's great. So I guess the last thing, what does the future of Harley in general look like in the next, I don't know, let's say like three to five years? Where do you think it's going?

Well, I should also mention I have another show called Turning the Page with Nova Page. Nova is this wonderful woman in Southern California who covers a different type of stories than I do. So we have a stable of podcasts. So I anticipate having maybe 10 over time. Not me as the host on all of them, just my own. And then eight more, I guess you'd say, assuming she decides to keep going. It's fun, but it's tiring. I want to...

a heck of a lot more subscribers. You know, if we can get up there in the 10 million subscriber base by word of mouth where you like it, you forward it to somebody, they like it, they subscribe, they forward it to 10 more, 10 more, 10 more. So I'd love to have a 10 million person database of people reading the news every day and listening to the shows as well. And then we have our

side projects like the movies, the TV shows in development, the music that we're producing, including the award show that I think in five years you said we'll probably have that televised because it should be a bigger, bigger, bigger thing every year. And if those 10 million subscribers also vote, then we're going to have much bigger participation to help them sell their music and make their movies and do all the wonderful things we want to do. So I do see a lot coming from the media company itself, Heartland Journal LLC, and I'm

There are things in development right this very second that I shouldn't probably speak to because if it didn't happen, that would be embarrassing, but they're very exciting. And they are all driven towards expanding Tennessee as the heartland entertainment capital of the country, if not world. So I work very closely with the government of Tennessee. A lot of these people I told you have been on my show to move the ball forward, to make it a destination location for film making and television production making.

as they immigrate away from LA, like I did from Seattle, looking for better places to make their product. And here is the place because we'll only do heartland stories. We're not going to do the pornography. I'm going to make a quick cross. Some comes to mind. So LA, a lot of the areas Hollywood burned, and I would think it's going to take years to rebuild that stuff. What is Hollywood going to do? Like, where are they going to film? I would think that this might be a golden opportunity to

to snatch it away from them because literally there's probably very few places to go and film there now. It is. And before the fires even happened, they made it so terrible for a location to shoot that even Burbank doesn't currently, which is the capital of filmmaking, doesn't have anything going on right now. Rob Lowe was just on a podcast and he said it's cheaper to take the whole crew to Ireland to film than what they're doing with all the rules, regulations, and cost in California. So they killed the golden goose. And so you're right.

Pacific Palisades burned down and that was where most of them lived, not worked, but they lived there. And so they're now looking like, well, where do we want to live instead? We can't even rebuild our own house if they don't even have 10 houses already. And Tennessee is a very, very, very popular destination. Kirk Cameron just moved here full time. Nick Searcy, the actor who was unjustified, he moved to middle Kentucky. So a lot of-

Then Shapiro opened the daily wire exactly a couple of years ago. And so all of his stable is here. Jason Whitlock is here, even though the blazes in Texas, but Texas has figured this out too. So you're absolutely right. It is the Renaissance of independent filmmaking right now. And this is the place. And so that's why I've been working so hard to create the brand of Heartland journal so that people say, when I think of Heartland and I want to go make my next movie, I

I should talk to Steve about this because I paved the way for them to be able to do it here. And it's a wonderful place with a very educated workforce that's happy to do it. And we have just a lower cost of living. The tax base is much better. And the incentives for movies, especially independent, are much higher as long as you don't try to make it the Hollywood way. If you start making Hollywood movies, they won't do it. But if you do it with some good criteria, it's not that bad. The stories are great anyway. I'm not going to have another trash like Avengers or...

whatever crab movie. So Georgia did that and they will do that and that's fine. Georgia is very good at that but when it comes to the independent stuff, the good stuff, we want it to be special. We want it to be Tennessee, heartland, laver. Yeah, I'm just thinking it'd be funny if you had one of those shows called Fly Over Country and it poked fun at the coast but you probably do. Well, we

Well, we do have a TV show in the works called Crockett and Davy Crockett is from Tennessee. And so there's, there's certainly the opportunity to use this. We've had presidents from here, from Polk to Andrew Jackson. A lot of, of our military have come from Tennessee that ended up serving. We are the volunteers. So the,

No end in sight of stories to cover. It's just a question of how many of the A-rated actors and producers and directors want to do it here. And so my job has been help that, help foster that. Because we have Vanderbilt, we have Belmont, we have Lipscomb University, Middle Tennessee University, a lot of educated workforce here just dying to it. They're doing it in music already.

You probably know that. Music Row is right there in Nashville. But all of a sudden, they're trying to make it Hollywood East, and I'm here to help. That's what I'm doing. That's what I've been doing ever since I got here. Right on. Well, Steve, it's been a great conversation. I really enjoyed speaking to you and definitely encourage listeners to go to heartlandjournal.com and check out your podcast and everything you do. I'm really glad that you put forth all this news that's real news, not the, you know, it's my own words, the garbage killer that they put on the internet.

on national news. So I appreciate you very much. Thank you, Richard. I appreciate your invitation. If you like this podcast, please click the link in the description to subscribe and review us on iTunes. You've been listening to the Finding Genius Podcast with Richard Jacobs.

If you like what you hear, be sure to review and subscribe to the Finding Genius Podcast on iTunes or wherever you listen to podcasts. And want to be smarter than everybody else? Become a premium member at FindingGeniusPodcast.com. This podcast is for information only. No advice of any kind is being given. Any action you take or don't take as a result of listening is your sole responsibility. Consult professionals when advice is needed.