Unscripted Health: Rethinking Diabetes, Weight Loss, & Modern Medicine With Kyle Rootsaert
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Hello, this is Richard Jacobs with the Finding Genius podcast. My guest today is Kyle Rutzart. We're going to talk about diabetes prevention, glucose monitoring, and hear Kyle's personal story about it. So welcome, Kyle. Thanks for coming. So glad to be on. I like all this stuff out because it

get kind of bottled up inside. Got all these crazy fun ideas and you're sparing my wife of some time here because she gets to hear it all the time. Always been thinking about diabetes. Does your wife say at night, like, I love you, but I don't want to talk about diabetes? Sometimes it's just too much and I get it. And I feel so sorry for her. I'm like, just one more thing because she'll come home from work and she's had a rough day and like, man, hey, I've got many different ideas that I had today or

some really interesting concepts and all these things to share and i haven't been able to talk to somebody because i feel like i'm on a deserted island like my my why is that is because your your ideas are uh different from most and they don't like people don't like them or what yeah you get a lot of pushback there's a lot of uh there's a lot of money there's a lot of egos there's a lot of misinformation that i i feel like i spend more time and keep people

people from basically being hindered by what they know, by what we've so-called learned in the past. Let's start off in an unorthodox way. What's one idea that you've had that people are like, oh, please, that turned out to be right. And then we'll go into like, you know, missing BS type of information in the industry. Yeah, there's a lot to talk about here. I think we've known about

a lot of things, but it has to do with where was the technology at the time? I was supposed to say cardiovascular disease and you see this cholesterol in the plaque, okay? I get it. It's really simple. We can measure cholesterol. Cool, right? But what could you really measure?

in the 1940s and 50s. Not a lot. We can measure glucose. We can measure cholesterol. We can start pointing our fingers at some things. But there was this something that was really glaring that there was a man by the name of John Yutkin who wrote a book, Pure White and Deadly. He was pointing at sugar rather than cholesterol. And what's frustrating is that, and this is very sad that this kind of stuff happened, but John Yutkin was a very well-published nutritionist in the UK. And

And very well-known, he's here.

It can't be 100% certain, but this sugar might have something to do with this and this hormone insulin. Why didn't we make correlation like forever ago? And he basically got lambasted and his reputation was under attack and really by somebody who didn't have the right answer, which was Ansel Keys. But he was very convincing and he was a bully. I'm on the cover of Time Magazine. He was pointing at cholesterol and saying, this is it, this is it. And Yudkin's going, wait a minute.

Good calories, bad calories. Somewhere around 70 pounds of sugar per person per year would equate to chronic disease. And when we talk about disease, which is 93% of our population, there's five findings. And these five findings are really, really important because this really is the definitive data on

the findings of metabolic syndrome. This is an insulin resistance syndrome is what it needs to be called. And this is the little secret that these five findings are high blood pressure, high glucose, expanded waistline around the midsection. And then there's two other lab values, triglyceride, HDL. I never said anything about cholesterol or LDL. Didn't even bring it up because it's not there. Not the problem. How come no one has invented a continuous insulin monitor instead of a continuous glucose monitor?

The protein is going to be difficult. But man, you bring on. There's a lot of things and tools that we now have that we can put a lot of these theories pretty much to rest, right? We have the data. We know what's driving chronic disease. But the dirty little secret of it all is the hormone insulin. It is the biggest secret in medicine. I went to pharmacy school, paid.

They come in different strengths. That's what you're focused on. And its sole purpose is to lower glucose. Yeah, that takes care of one of those by finding, but at what cost, right? Why don't we talk about the many functions of insulin? You do not teach it. That is an anabolic hormone that favors fat storage. And already, you already know what your doctor doesn't know.

Because you're shielded from them. Yeah. What would happen if I have a very high insulin, you know, background insulin, because I don't eat well. And then I'm even when I, you know, if I eat a good meal versus a bad meal, like if I'm in a high insulin state, would I still put on weight no matter what I'm eating? Gosh, these questions are great. The reason is that you're right. We actually can, we can get a lot of information using sensor technology. When we look at continuous glucose, we're looking at your metabolism. The

Essentially, we're kind of using glucose as a proxy for insulin. Because if you can manage the glucose and get it very low, keep it low. I think the only way to do that is really to look.

your glucose level throughout at least two weeks, if not longer. I mean, these CGMs, these continuous glucose monitors is sampling the interstitial fluid. So it's not in your vein, it's not in your blood, it's just sampling the fluid between cells. And then it does a calculation that says, okay, with the fluid, if the glucose between the cells is this, of course, you can tell that there's going to be a delay and how long it takes for this to happen. But then there's a calculation as to what it would be in your bloodstream, which we know that

But the question is, what really is normal, right? So knowing what your glucose is, is kind of a proxy for what is your insulin. That hormone insulin is in abundant. It's elevated. Metabolic syndrome, which 93% of our population suffer from, is insulin resistant. It's a high insulin level. It's a hyperinsulin, not so striving kind.

Did you say 93% of people are at metabolic syndrome now? Yeah. 93%? 93. Holy shit. Well, not necessarily metabolic syndrome. They have one metabolic dysfunction. One of those blood sugar, high triglyceride and low HDL. And here's the problem. We...

This is, you guys, this is nobody's fault. This is not your doctor's fault. This is not our fault. Really don't think that there's too many people to blame here other than I think the ADA, I think the AHA, I think those that do know and have turned their back on what they know for the sake of greed and money for profit are the ones I think should be called on the carpet. What percentage of people have all five metabolic factors in disarray?

All of these factors are relevant and then are very important if you have a state of inflammation. And typically you have inflammation. If you have any of these, you have a level of inflammation. Inflammation, you can look at this using high sensitivity serine protein. This is not something that's covered, but it should be drawn on everybody. It moves, it takes a while for it to move for inflammation to improve what you can visibly see with a lab test. But you have sensor technology.

You can control as much as you possibly can control. You can see it. You can pull all these levers from lifestyle to stress to nutrition and go, guess what? My numbers are getting better. I am improving my lifestyle. I'm not waiting for my doctor to spend three minutes with me once a year. That's medicine? That's a joke. So imagine...

If you knew what your numbers were, why we're having this conversation. We want people to open their eyes to sensor technology and go, what does this new language mean? What can I gather? What information am I missing? Because when somebody, you know, I'm at the gym.

How do you know if you're carefully covered? Based on my data, if I should go hard or take it easy or what can I change? Like, do I need to change my intensity? Do I change my mind? At least have something to go on. Sort of data. Unless you want a CGM, a continuous glucose monitor, you don't know. Quit telling me that oatmeal is healthy because it makes you feel good.

My experience from what I've been doing for the last 10 years is that when people learn what their data means, they're more likely to obtain total reversal of their disease. Keep off the way, keep scaling in the right direction. A successful patient with the best long-term outcomes is those that are educated on what their data means. So what I would do is I remotely monitor people.

Yeah.

You know, when I got my data, though, like, the doctor, like, is like, oh, it looks fine. Or, you know, if it's one point within range, it's fine. If it's, you know, one point out of range, it's bad. And they didn't even know. Like, during the night, my sugar would go down and they would come up an hour or two before I wake up. And they're like, oh, that's the, you know, the adult, the awake onset effect. But they just didn't really know anything, even with CGM, I guess, is the point. I have never seen a patient do well on their own. Oh, absolutely.

The last patient's like, what are you doing? What is that on the back of your arm? Of course I know what it is. And he's like, oh, it's from my diabetes. Like, what do you do? I scan it. I have to scan it three times a day. Okay. What do you do with that data? I don't know. It's from my diabetes. Like there's no education. People will say, this is where I feel like the education part is an important component

But here's, imagine if you knew while you were having a blood sugar spike. Imagine going, a message on your phone that's asking you a question, what are you eating? Because your blood sugar just went up 20% in the last 15 minutes. Right.

And then here's a suggestion. Go walk it off. Here's something that you can do right now. I would see when I had the CGM, if I walked for about 20 minutes, my sugars would come down about 30 points. Right. And you would avoid that spike. But more importantly, you would avoid the low afterwards. You'll release more insulin than you really should. So there's more

insulin in the bloodstream. So what you oftentimes find on the back end of a spike is a low. Why are we using an A1C? It's worthless.

You should be going through a series of your own experiments or experiments that I would have you do. I would test you with 75 grams of glucose cola, like what women do when they are pregnant. We test them. And now we can see what your current is with this. We know how you do it. We know kind of what you're doing.

Because in diabetes, there's eight different defects and we can see them. What are they? What do you mean? Like what? Oh, they're like the liver kicks out way too much glucose, for example. And the liver is responding to too much glucagon. And how does glucagon go up? Because you're uptight. It's stress.

That's the circadian rhythm. 30 minutes before you wake up, you have a cortisol release. That's a stress hormone. These are counter-regulatory hormones that raise glucose levels when you're stressed. And glucagon will tell the liver, release, release more and more glycogen for glucose. And then you have other defects where the kidneys aren't dumping glucose like they should. What I'm saying is you can see some of these defects. Another one was the GLP-1GAP effect.

So that insulin should normally be released when you're eating carbohydrate food. And that insulin level, if you're trying, what the GLP-1s do is help that process. People on that particular...

defects. This is how these medications work. We don't have anything for the glucagon other than metformin works very well when it comes to liver and glucose output. So we can see these defects and you see how the meds work. Also leptin, leptin is the only thing in the brain. Eventually you develop your own leptin resistance. There's a down regulation that occurs so that people have leptin resistance. That has a lot to do with craving to hunger. And the CGM will also tell you this as well. You see people that are bouncing all over the place. They have massive variations all over the place. I should have a low sugar.

And they're not eating. So the problem between insulin and insulin is these two hormones that are being released from the pancreas at the same time, right? One is typically dominant and the other one is not dominant. It's plus minus on them, right? But imagine if the one that raises glucose release from the liver doesn't get the shut off excess amount of fat in your bloodstream. In other words, a bunch of free fatty acids, which then form in the form of triglycerides and we can measure triglycerides. Ah,

I have origin of all of this is that fat cell. That fat cell does not want to expand to the point of explosion. It doesn't want to expand so much that it can't burst. The most important defect in diabetes is that fat cells, when they get a signal from insulin, let's say you eat some carbohydrates, you raise your insulin level. The fat cell signal when insulin is there is store fat. Do not burn it, store it.

Do not burn fat. You can burn other stuff. Don't burn the fat. So you can burn carbohydrate. You become a carb-dependent person at this point. But what about if someone's trying the ketogenic diet? Will the insulin respond quickly enough where it won't sabotage them? Well, so the fat cell wants to shrink, and it has to ignore insulin. So what it's doing, fat is leaking out of the fat cell. It's leaking and it's in the bloodstream. It's not being utilized because you become a carb.

a carb dependent person. But if insulin isn't there, you swap it out. There's only two fuels in the body. There's carbs and there's fat. The fat that's in your bloodstream is

You're not going to have triglyceride levels above 125. And I'll tell you, as an endurance athlete, it is my preferred energy source. That is what I want to burn, and I want to burn it very well, and even at very high intensity. So the ketogenic diet switches the fueling because it lowers the insulin. If you lower the carbs, you lower the insulin. It's a signal in those fat cells to hold on to energy and so on and so forth.

Now ketones, which are little bits of fat, it's physical evidence that you're burning fat for energy. I'm spewing it into the atmosphere with my breath. These little dudes are the powerhouses of ourselves. They love to eat fat in the presence of oxygen. Ketones turn them on so much that they start wasting energy.

and like doubling to tripling the energy that it burns just sitting there doing nothing. And that is like Oakwood. Like you can use carbs to get it going. And some crazy athletes-

You'd be amazed. They're eating 150 grams or like 600 calories worth of carbs per hour. It's insane, okay? So the amount of carbohydrates really that we should be burning, really very little, if any. That isn't just energy. That is also structure. You think about how many cells. Every cell has a membrane. Think of every mitochondria. And some of these cells in our brain, these neurons, have 8,000 to 10,000 mitochondria in

structure, function, and glucose, carbohydrates, is just pure energy. Do you want to burn that? People who eat a lot of carbohydrates have a high triglyceride level. And I'll tell you this, high triglycerides is a very, very strong correlation with cardiovascular. What causes high triglycerides? When you eat...

Where is it going to go? It's got to get stored as glycogen in the liver or it's got to get stored in the muscle. But imagine origin of insulin resistance starts leaking fat and it has to ignore the signal of insulin. Well, that fat is very toxic. That fat circulating in the bloodstream is very toxic. We see that on high triglycerides. Well, that fat's going somewhere. It's going into your muscles. It's going into your patients.

It's going into your liver. It's going into your heart. It's going everywhere that actually doesn't belong. I'm telling you, man has never seen triglycerides probably above 100 in the existence of mankind. So what are we doing with these high and typical diabetic patient has triglycerides above 150? That's crazy. We're

When you reduce the carbohydrate, you go on a ketogenic diet, your triglycerides are going to drop like a rock, like 50%. I've seen that. If you're on a ketogenic diet, you're measuring ketones every morning and you're checking them with somebody and they should be above 0.5 if you're really doing it the right way. But the whole point of the ketogenic diet is to reduce the carbohydrate and lower your insulin level and switch the fuel to the straight glycerin.

You keep taking in carbohydrate, it's gonna have to be changed into fat because the carb tank is tiny. Let's say you're totally ripped and you're a big, big, huge dude. Max, this is equivalent to about a half less of a pound of fat. And how many pounds of fat do we have?

That would be a very healthy individual at 200 pounds. You have 20%. You have 20 pounds of fat to burn. 70,000 calories. You don't want to burn carbohydrates as your energy source. You want to burn fat as your energy source. The best kind of fat is animal fat. It's saturated. It's fully saturated fat. That is the better choice. It's like the omega-6 seed oil. Because now you have, instead of a very stable membrane, you've got a membrane that's easily oxidizable. And when you muck,

Oxidative stress and oxidation will disrupt the conductivity of that membrane. You're damaging the membranes of your mitochondria. And mitochondria are falling apart and they're dying. And when they die, it's a mess.

mitochondrial toxins, glyphosate, all the carcinogens, oxidative stress, not moving, seed oils, all these things add to the stress of the mitochondria and the mitochondria are dying. The origin of the mitochondria is really fascinating. I mean, it's something worth getting into and the mitochondrial DNA.

If you put all this together for a typical person on a standard American diet, what are all the attack vectors that they're essentially perpetrating on themselves? They're hurting the mitochondria. They're ramping up insulin levels. They're getting the liver to, I guess, work overtime. I mean, what are all the sequelae of a crap diet, essentially? I just wonder if you could summarize them in one spot. That's what I was asking.

the origin of all these disease is a mitochondrial toxin. What am I doing to improve and make those guys healthier? And I think if you don't know and don't measure, you can't really manage and help mitochondria. They're

There's data that we need to look at and see what we can manage, what we can control, and what good health looks like. There's a place for medicine and pharmacy, and it's an acute and critical, as well as infectious disease. But we really have no place in trying disease. This shouldn't be in our life. I need to be in the top seven. How do I get to the top 7%? What do I have control of? And I really believe the use of the CGM and me.

and marrying it with something like smart ring or a smart watch is probably the most intelligent thing and the most empowering thing that people can do. But I would like to see people put some investment into their own knowledge and their own self-improvement and try to understand how and what tools

What tools and the technology that we have, how can we augment, how can we learn from our own data? Because what's cool is that when you do these experiments, you feel the results now. Using your hands level, you're helping your mitochondria because you're doing this intervention. It could be something like a cold plan. You could do high intensity interval training. It could be working on muscle strength. It could be reducing the stress in your life. And seeing it.

and try to analyze how these things would affect you and going, I'm going to make a change and I'm going to watch within minutes even, within an hour, like you did the walk within 20 minutes to start lowering your blood sugar. I think future is I want people to learn in real time. I want you to learn right now what you can do right now so that you don't go down this

in this room. Yeah. So what's, are you an inventor or do you have a clinic where you work with people or what's your role in the diabetes world? I have been a diabetes educator working in a retail pharmacy 25, 10 years ago. And it really sparked my, what sparked all of this was a patient was like, I don't, I don't know I'm diabetic. She had no idea that the doctor's job is to do this diagnosis. I'm just going

I just don't know a carb from a protein from a fat. So I was like, okay, I really like Jason. Sarah Hallberg, Robert Lustig, Gary Todd. There's a huge list. Dr. Eric Westman. Just a ton of these pioneers that are like, wait a minute. And when you focus on the etiology, diabetes, you now have a cure. You're actually reversing diabetes. Like I remember the last drug rep meeting. It was a Zempic meeting. And I remember I'm like, oh, I'm going to get the drugs. I'm going to get the drugs.

and I was really excited. I'm like, literally the first sentence out of his mouth was type two diabetes is a progressive disease. I was like, you're a liar. You know that's not true. This is all about money. This is not about a cure. So I started looking, started basically looking at the American Diabetes Association and started looking at who their sponsors were and started reading through these guys.

panels. Is this necessary? And oh, we have our disclosure agreement to looking at physicians and seeing where they got their money. I'm not reading this one, right? I'm going to read-

I think the problem is when you speak to anyone in the diabetes world, they start out with, of course, we all know that insulin does this and sugar does that. So there's no room for other ideas. It's like the whole system, again, is just perpetuating this. Of course, we know X, Y, Z. And if you challenge any of those assumptions, they're not going to let you, you know?

If anyone's listening, you can see here, and I've done this too, like, go look up what is the cause of type 2 diabetes or what is metabolic syndrome. You're going to see insulin resistance. We expect it to be elevated. So here's the ultimate question. Why does nobody draw on insulin, fasting insulin level on anybody? Why?

Why this is- You can get it, but you have to specially request it. And a lot of doctors will say, oh, you don't need that. Yeah, I have a concierge doctor who will pull whatever biomarker I ask for. But most of them, from what I've heard, is like they just refuse. Or they say you don't need it. Scared. They don't know what it means. Their idea of the ketogenic diet is something that's not sustainable. And it's going to raise your bad cholesterol. So if you go to Google and type in carnivore diet, it'll tell you it's a fad diet. It'll tell you it's a fad diet, right?

Raises my LDL? No. If you're, if you're, if you don't have inflammation, I don't, cardiovascular disease. It doesn't, you have to have inflammation for cardiovascular disease.

That's really the point. These doctors, they're afraid. What direction are you going in? Is your insulin level going up or down? You want a low insulin level. When you give them puberty, that's a different... Or you're pregnant, expect your insulin level to be higher. Most people are north of 10. We give them more insulin. Why? Why would you give somebody? They're like, they don't tell you. Why do you give them the doctor?

diabetic is you're going to have beta cell failure. These little cells that enter your pancreas that make insulin are going to die. That's the progressive constantly. Matter of fact, before your diagnosis of type 2 diabetes, your insulin level was rising 7 to 10 years before your diagnosis. Why aren't we measuring? That makes no sense. If it really is beta cell failure, we should be able to test for that. We should be able to measure, and we can. We use C-reactive proteins.

Is C-reactive protein like an aggregate downstream biomarker of the five factors that you described that would say that you have an insulin resistance problem? No, it would tell you that you're inflamed. For example, in the statin study, lowering your cholesterol doesn't make any sense. But for

For secondary prevention, if you've already had a heart attack, because on people that were inflamed and they've already had a heart attack, statins did reduce another heart attack, a second heart attack, but it wasn't through LDL lowering. That didn't correlate. It more likely correlated through an anti-inflammatory thing. And it's not a marker that moves a heck of a lot either. It takes like six months for that marker to really change. It's very slow. Why? This is what I'm saying. It's every...

every condition in the form of sensor data. And as we add more sensors on, I anticipate that going to something you might be able to use with a smartwatch or smart ring. I don't know these sensors are. If we can manage inflammation, do certain lifestyle modifications. When people got COVID, when they started showing signs

I think on average, like two and a half days before they got their COVID symptoms. Imagine this. Like if you saw an infection or you can see stress, people might be able to manage that. You know when grandma's in trouble. Imagine the utility of doing remote patient monitoring. You could look, you know their heart rate. What's their glucose doing? Are they erratic right now?

If you had cancer, your lactic acid would go up. Are you an athlete that's pushing it too much and they're not fully recovered and you're bouncing in and out of a fib or PSTs or you have some unusual rhythm of utilizing this data and doing some sort of actionable protocol or treatment to help mitigate mother-in-law.

You can log in and go, okay, what happened last night? You didn't get as much sleep or your HRV is down. You know, are you stressed? Oh, look, let's see how many times you woke up. I just feel like the application for the sensor technology, it sent me down this road. I was doing a diabetes clinic and coach you. And so I would coach them in real time via text message and say, hey, did you see this? Hey, did you see that? What's going on? Like,

teaching them in real time, I think is where the value, but what I've found that is the successful patient is the one that learned. I can almost bet on their success that they can function without me later, without me going, you got to eat these foods, right? Wonderful thing. And we'll, we'll get to this, but if you knew what your glucose, let's say you did a

at home cola test with the glucose type in a food and look at what your graph would look like before and you would never have to actually eat it. We would know what based on your glucose profile and your condition, how can I incorporate this into my diet? Because according to this device, it says this is the kind of curve I'm going to get.

You not knowing what you put in your mouth kind of makes all the difference when you went out to eat. What if you have a CGM with a memory and you're instructed to eat certain things to calibrate it for your own self? And then the CGM could at least give you a decent idea of how you're going to respond to XYZ based on its memory.

There's only like five different responses to 75 grams of glucose in a cola, right? What kind of response you'll have to anything and everything, right? And we can set a line for

Let's say AI learned from you. You categorized and you told AI what you were doing, right? You told your app what you were doing, right? And it learns you. So I have been down this. I love the C-GEM. C-GEM is an amazing game changer. And then maximizing myself. I'm pulling all kinds of levers with my lifestyle to try to maximize my performance. I've got metabolism with the C-GEM. I've got stress and lifestyle with the Oura Ring. So then comes...

all of these all these sensor data all the sensor data together in one umbrella and make the connectivity really easy they can combine the data together onto the same graph but it doesn't have connectivity with everything and it's difficult i want to put this in every

As many people as humanly possible, I want to put it in their hands. And I want to do it for as inexpensively as possible. And I want them to spend the money not on the hardware. I want them to spend money on their own education to help themselves. How can you educate yourself from here to the end? I don't want you to be dependent upon me. I want you to go through this for a period of time.

I'm really excited to be working with them. Got all the sensor data, very willing to work with me. He's in obesity medicine. And of course, obesity medicine doesn't have it. We don't use this gym. I'm like, okay, well, let's combine these. So now the sensor data is more clean as well as, so stay tuned, we're gonna get this.

I'm really excited about having smart watches and smart rings for those that want them along with the continuous glucose monitor, like the Freestyle Libre and Dexcom and have it all under one app. Here's a couple of hats on the back. And I want to gamify the learning. I want to make it so that people, hey, maybe there's some money at stake. I don't care. I use them to get healthy. And if it's, I want $100 Batman. Okay, fantastic.

Right. Motivate, inspire. That's that's what it's all about. When people feel like they have the ability to do the right thing. And I made a difference and I feel it. And that was my experiment. And I felt that experiment. Right. I want I want you to do your own experiment. Gotcha. Well, well, very good. I mean, we're out of time, but what's the best? So you've given a ton of information. Where do people even start? How do they get started with figuring out what to do?

start learning what your foods are doing. Start looking at them. Be a carb detective. You're looking at carbs. Be really mindful of what your blood sugar is doing in response to a meal, in response to stress. Start learning what these numbers are. Follow me.

I've got classes, getting more information out there. Like what does an HRV mean? What does a sleep score mean? What does, you know, what to look for when you're looking at these aura rings. Start looking at the numbers, start looking at your metrics and start trying to figure out what's what. You can go towards my website, go to my YouTube, there's information out there. I'm just trying to help you make sense of it, but stay tuned. I'm going to have a really cool application

with all kinds of connectivity to various wearables, smart rings and whatnot. I'm hopefully going to have this ready quite soon. Yeah. Good luck. All right. Well, very good. Thank you so much for coming on the podcast and for all your info, Kyle. I appreciate it. Thank you so much. That was fun. If you like this podcast, please click the link in the description to subscribe and review us on iTunes. You've been listening to the Finding Genius Podcast with Richard Jacobs.

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