Brandon Graham on Retirement, Rookie Jason Stories, Art of Trash Talking & The Brady Sack | EP 133
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That was the lowest of lows last year when we lost, and then Kelce retired. And everything got better. Yeah. Well, it was crazy. I know, Kelce.

Welcome back to New Heights, ladies and gentlemen, a one-day show produced by Wave Sports and Entertainment and brought to you by HBO's The Last of Us. Season two premieres Sunday, 9 p.m. on Max. How about that? Anybody been watching White Lotus? Season finale was last night, Trent. Oh, my God. I think I'm two or three episodes behind.

Season finale. Don't tell me. Okay. Don't do it. I think it's my favorite. That's tough. All the seasons of White Lotus have been great. This might be my favorite season. The last episode was electric.

Love the sound of that. Cause every other episode's kind of been just like waiting. I'm waiting. Well, there's a lot that happens this episode. There is a lot that happens. I don't, it might've been, I don't know that I'm, it's very good. It's very good. I don't even want to say anything negative about the show. It shows fantastic. Zip it. Well, uh,

I'm glad you're enjoying White Lotus and I can't wait to watch it. But season two of The Last of Us premieres on HBO Sunday, 9:00 PM on Max. We're your hosts. I'm Travis Kelsey. This is my big brother, Jason Kelsey out of Cleveland Heights, Ohio.

Cincinnati Bearcat alum. First of all, shout out to all the Bearcats down in the NFLPA golf outing that brought it home for the Cats. Oh, yeah. Sauce Gardner. That's right. That's right, Sauce. Well, I don't know. Sauce is getting his swing right. I don't know if he was the reason why we won. He wasn't carrying it. Yeah, my guy Sauce, he brought it home, though. He brought it home. That's all that counts, man.

No, the Bearcats brought it home. And make sure you guys, the 92%ers, subscribe on YouTube, Wondery Plus, wherever you get your podcasts, and follow the show on all social media pages at NewHeightShow with one S. Jason, let the people know what we have coming up. We got a great episode coming up for you guys. We got an incredible episode with Brandon Graham joining us today. Yeah!

That's right, that's right. We also are going to reveal the winners of the New Heights March Madness Bracket Challenge and answer some of your no-dumb questions. All right now. As opposed to what we normally do, we're going to get right into it. We're going right to BG. Let's get it. Philadelphia Eagles legend and icon. 5'5". Best smile I've ever been around. I mean, it's insane. You're going to see. You'll see.

Our guest today is a first-round draft pick from Detroit, Michigan. He's a Walter Payton NFL Man of the Year nominee. Yes, sir. Prolific trash talker, pro bowler, the record holder for most games played in Philadelphia Eagles history. That's right. He is two-time Super Bowl champion and my former teammate, 92 percenter. Please welcome Brandon Graham. Yeah.

BG! Yeah, baby! Appreciate you coming on, dog. I appreciate y'all having me, for real. This is an honor, man. I appreciate it. Honor is all ours, BG. How you doing? How you living? You know what? I'm living good. In the facility every day, working out. I know. Getting that rehab and figuring out next steps, for real. Nice, man. So you retore it in the game, in the Super Bowl. Yeah.

Man, you're an absolute warrior, dog, for going back out there and finding a way to make it on that field. And congrats again. I know we talked after the game, man, but I can't say enough about how fun it is to play against you because I respect you so much and how much trash talk you get. You're always one of the best competitors and you back up your shit talking. And it was always fun seeing you on the field, man. So, yeah.

Congrats on a great career, brother. Man, thank you, man. It's definitely going to be different, but I'm excited for what's to come because, as you know, I can figure out a way to trash talk in this era too. Keep that time for the kids. By the way, how are the kids doing? Man, you know what? Baby girl's doing good. Gymnastics is the queen for her life. And right now, baby boy is all over. He got baseball, just started opening day yesterday. That's what I'm talking about.

Yeah. There we go. Yeah, it's cool. And he love it. You know, he got some lacrosse. He's playing with second graders now. He's in kindergarten. What? But he don't like lacrosse, but he is really good at it. But he just don't – like he just – I love that I know what he do and don't like, but you never know. It changes. It changes.

But to see him, even though I didn't grow up on lacrosse, seeing how it's played, the rules and stuff like that, it's kind of cool to see him do his thing. And then, of course, flag football is one that he liked because he's been around football. Nice, man. Before we get to the rest of this interview with BG, as we start every show off, everybody who watches knows, all United Jupe fans out there, we got to get to a little bit of that.

New news! New news! BG, give us a little new news, BG. New news!

There we go. He's a pro. He's a pro. You can put him anywhere, man. That's great stuff. You had a really emotional day a couple weeks ago, right, when you officially announced your retirement. I know you said it before the season. You led up to the season knowing it was going to be your last year. And I've talked about this. I mean, I feel like even midway through the year, we would talk. I'm like, man, you're still –

You're still balling. How did the family react to that? How was that day? Yeah. So my wife, she used to get on me like, hey, make sure you write down little bullet points for that day when they do come, if it's this year or next year, whatever year. But just make sure you just write down things, something that so you can remember who's been a real big impact in your life and all this stuff. So I had notes that I was just writing.

Yeah. It helped. And man, it hit me though. Like how it hit you probably, man. It just, when I seen everybody looking back at me and I knew this was the moment where it was over. True. It's like, whoo.

I've been doing this a long time. And I'm so thankful, man. Oh, man. You put all this work in for these amount of years. And, man, it's like even from Little League all the way up to now, it's like, man, this is all I know. Every offseason, it's like, man, I've got to get ready. I've got to get my body right, get it right. And now it's more of now I'm trying to get it right to look good instead of

that's my new motivation. I got, I want to look good. I want to be on the beach where I can take my shirt off, you know, Harry and all, Harry and all, but looking ripped up. They don't want to see that. That's awesome. Well, you killed the speech.

And not only that, you killed the lead up to the speech. You had the social media. You got everybody kind of mouthwatering with the Rocky Balboa statue over by the Rocky, the history museum steps or art history museum steps. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah.

You already know. That was so cool. I wanted to do something so Philly, man. That was it. That was a Philly thing where I was like, man, where can I hang my cleats up somewhere in Philly? And I was like, ooh, the statue, Rocky Steps. You know it. For sure. And, man, they did it. They did it for me. The Eagles –

brought the team down um we met out early that morning eight o'clock and be like hey we got an announcement at 12 and it just worked out so good man and that's how i know this was the right it was the right choice because of course i call howie like hey i could still cancel this thing man what's up for real hey that is that is something i definitely wanted to ask you because if

I know you said before the season, it was going to be your last year, but you were playing so well. Yes. Right. And like, you're still, you could still play the game. Did you second guess this at all? Like how I know, I know before the season said it's gonna be your last, but what was it like leading up to this decision? Were there moments where you're like, man, I think I might want to give it another run. Or were you like, nah, I'm done. I'm going to be totally honest with you. I wanted to give it another run. Cause I got hurt. Uh,

And I was like, man, I got a, I got a whole bunch left that I can still do. And I was going really this year would have been the real last year for sure. If he would have kind of granted that, but he was like, man, it's such a storybook ending. And man, that's what I said in my prayer. When I walked in, I prayed before I had went in the day before I was like, okay, Lord, I'm gonna just, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a lead.

you just leave me on this. And when I walked in, I was like, I'm going to put it in his hands. If, if how we, if we, if we don't come to a conclusion that we can do it again, all right, I'm, I ain't going to fight it. So when I walk in, he like, BG, like what you want to do? I say, man, what you want me to do? Cause you know, you know, my heart, he was like,

BG, this is such a fairytale ending, man. I can't let you. I can't let you, man. Like you got to go out on top. And when he said fairytale, I was like, all right, Lord, I'm done. I'm done. I didn't even fight it after that. And so I just felt like a weight was lifted off my shoulder when it happened. And I was like, OK, I don't have to fight. Fight no more.

I ain't got to fight no more because, man, I had this chip on my shoulder for so long on like just people like what you said, man, like I'm a bus and all that stuff. I carry that every year as motivation to go out there and make sure I'm working. But my family for sure was, you know, my biggest motivation. But that was one that I always was like, man, how are we going to want to get rid of me? And you kind of play play that game in your head. And that's why you train hard and you go hard and.

make them sacrifices that you know that's hard to make like eating food and all that stuff because you want to look good all that no doubt I'll tell you what man 15 seasons 218 games bro you shut all those two times Super Bowl champions you shut all those fucking doubters up or anybody that had anything to say man man

What made you love football? You got to tell your Detroit guys here from that blue collar, that tough area. What was it about Philly that year in, year out made you stick around? Because it was always I mean, it was an up and down roller coaster for you. See, year in, year out, you've had multiple different coaches pull through. Like, what was it about the city and about this organization that really made you want to be here?

there as an eagle your entire career well stripping that stripping that ball on Brady man that made that helped me out a lot uh yeah because I didn't like I didn't like in Philly at first man I'm telling you like Philly fans was so tough man and it just wasn't it just it just wasn't everything I wanted it to be but like you say coming from Detroit being a fighter um not

knowing that, hey, this is your first real adversity. It's like, how are you going to fight back? And so I think for me, having guys like Trent and having guys like JP in my head, like, hey, man, if Chip Kelly wants you to play special teams, go play special teams. Be the best at it, man. No sense of crying about it because I used to be like, man, I ain't never played special teams when Coach Reed was here. Now I got to do this, play all four. And

It was an opportunity. And so I even still use that story to date it for the for the guys, because, man, once I once I really had my mindset of, man, I'm gonna do it. It turned into something that I didn't even know that it would turn into where I'm on kickoff. And them boys putting two or three on me because I'm running through the wedge. And whoever was the one that I ran through, they needed two people.

And so it became that. Like, you know, and man, it was all mindset with that. And then I think it took my career to another level because I had some adversity that I went through. I conquered that by my attitude. And then look, look what happened, man. Now they at their games like BG, man. Our special teams coach was like, man, you need to block. We need to go ahead to block 55 on kickoff because he coming down and running through. You know, you better get you better get your chin strap buckled up.

You know what I'm saying? Put your mouthpiece in. I was about to say, you're an Eagle favorite for a lifetime now, man. You gave them happiness that they never experienced in their life twice. And you even threw out the first pitch with Saquon the other day. Did you practice before you went up there? Were you throwing the ball around a little bit?

They didn't let us. I did one in Michigan, in Detroit. My only one I did before I actually did that one last week. And, man, no, they didn't let us go in the dugout and throw. We just had to. And I had the trophy in my hand, and I had to throw it. So it made it even like, man, we want somebody. We want to get the pick for the trophy. And, BG, you got to hold it. Because Saquon was like, no, I ain't holding it. I'm going to let you hold it.

Because he was more worried about getting the ball over the plate. So I was like, all right.

But, no, I just kept it high. Just kept it high. There you go. Floated it in there. Floated it in there. Mm-hmm. Yeah, that's what I should have did. I decided to try and throw a heater. You see Travis's up there in Cleveland? From the mound. No, nobody should ever see that. They should just delete that. From the mound, like an idiot, yeah. With no practice. When I tell you I haven't thrown anything since my pick in 2015 to the New York Giants –

I had like, I was, I just, I spiked it right in the ground, man. It was terrible. Yeah. I got my redemption on Casey a few weeks after that. Okay. I got a, I got a chance to go back in Casey. So I did it. I did it right in Casey, but in front of the hometown, I felt like a jamoke. Oh yeah. I know that was, that was, yeah, that's the bad.

Brandon, you're only the second defensive player we've had on the show, actually. Second defensive lineman, too. Yeah, you and Chris Jones. As someone who has defended quarterback sneaks, what is your opinion on the banning of the tush push, potentially? I think it's kind of...

I don't want to say soft, but it is because man, ain't no way. It ain't no way. Ain't no way. I will show my hand and say, man, they need to stop this. Cause we can't stop it. It's like, no. Cause if everybody could do it, as we know, you got to have the personnel for it first. Then you got to work the technique in practice. And like we do, we just got a good thing that we got going. And it's like, stop it, man. Ain't nobody got hurt on it. If anything, you know, you come out from under the, under the huddle, like, Oh,

Man, I got to get ready for the next one. But that's football, though. That's what we do. I mean, it's big, grown men up front that you got to push. And if I'm not strong enough, it won't happen. But we got a strong line. And I'm sorry, it's a little soft in my opinion, but it got to get voted. And I hate that we hear, you know, something that we created, but people don't like because they don't want to see it because they can't stop it.

Let me ask you this. If you could ban one NFL offensive play outside of the tush push, what would you ban? Ooh, one play outside of the crack toss.

Get that up out of there. Ooh. Hit me in my face. Hit me in my face. I'm flanking every day. You know I'm flanking. I'm flanking. I'm sneak attacking the whole time. Oh, yeah. I know. If that's the one, you just made me think about it because, you know, you're the one that come –

Right on the side. It's like, boy, how you going to get me like that? I'm very, very sneaky. You got to sneak attack you, man. You are doing something about children's books in the last bit of the news. That's right. BG. This is awesome, man. With the children's book, baby. Look at this. BG's ABCs. Oh, this is awesome, man. Man, I can appreciate you. Check him out. Check him out. Okay, bye-bye.

You know what, man? Me being a family man, me, I felt like that was right up my alley. And, you know, just got to talking about it with some people and, you know, just wanted to make sure that for me, that I, that I went out there and just, I wanted to add value to the world, as you know, and the kids is where, where we at. And I felt like for me, man, I just wanted to do something different. Some that came up,

And my wife was like, man, she was all for it. Like, yeah, you know, this would be sweet. Something that you can do. I read to the kids every night anyway. And so I thought this would be just something that that just would add more value to the season that we had on top of the person I am that my kids see me, you know, every day. And I felt like this was a good, good opportunity for me to add some more value to my kids and something that they can look back on and be like, man, you did that. And so that was cool.

It's awesome. But for the most part, man, I think this was near and dear to my heart with the kids. And I wanted my kids to see something other than just football, other than dad doing something cool. Well, it definitely fits in line with Brandon Graham. I could see a Brandon Graham book coming a million miles away. You're a great dad. You're a great father. So this, I can't wait. Cannot wait. Check it out, everybody. BG's ABC's. It's going to be out May 9th, y'all.

Made knife preorder now on Amazon. Just type in Brandon Graham book and it'll be popped up right there. So appreciate y'all. Hopefully it helps you in my reading, man. Man, I'm a scrub. I can barely read this damn rundown. And you know what? It's going to get better as you get kids, man. You're going to want to just give them everything that you got. And I know for you, man, it's going to be cool. But make sure, you know, you're ready when you're ready because it's going to slow you down a little bit.

There you go. In a good way. In a great way. No, yeah, of course. All right. That does it for a little new news, man. Let's talk to 2024 Eagles, man. You guys didn't end on a really high note in 2023. So coming into this season, what were the expectations? Always Super Bowl or bus? Or is it just like what were the expectations coming into the season this

in terms of in the locker room? What were you guys talking? Well, we was at the lowest I felt in a while that we've been, especially coming off a season. After we lost to y'all, that was tough. That was tough when we lost to Arizona. But coming off that year, we just had a lot of excitement coming back because we had a lot of guys from that team. But

But the lesson for me was when you got to replace coaches, that was pretty tough because we had Desai come in. Then we got some other people that came in. And everybody, I feel, when you have a certain amount of time, as you know, to get everybody on the same page and to be able to –

as a D coordinator to come in, teach his scheme, and you have to be able to pass the message from coach to player, and the player's got to be able to receive it. It's just the timing of everything really didn't fit with the type of team we had and the expectations that was coming. But I felt like that was the lowest of lows last year when we lost, and then Kelce retired. And everything got better. Yeah. Well, it was crazy. What? What?

I know, Kelly. I feel so bad, man. Y'all got a little bigger on the offensive line. It opened up some doors, didn't it? It opened up some doors. Oh, man. But, yeah, it was a lot of expectations from this year just not repeating, you know, from last year. And so when Vic came, I think Vic was able to hire other coaches that he had,

That was that he already was familiar with. So that worked out perfect because the DB coach, he came in, man, he already knew Vic D-line coach, Coach Clint knew Vic. I mean, watch is a great coach already with us. So we've been together for a while. So we already knew how to work with him. And then, yeah, man, it's about how you how you working together and how you relate a message and how you teaching it.

And I think Vic was real tough early on. And man, he was tough as far as he was like source to me, which I like is I'm not your friend. I'm here to do my job. I'm here to do my job. And then if we build to that, eventually you break a man, you know? And so I felt like we was going to break a man one of these days. And man, when he came in saying some of the lingo that some of the guys say, Oh,

Oh, man, you knew you had him. You knew you had him. You knew it because we was rubbing off on him in a good way because he was so tough, man, early on. And he just thought we suck. He was like, man, you guys last year, y'all don't work hard enough. And he said that openly. But I think as we got we gained his trust and his respect.

as just going through everyday life with him. And by the end of the year, our goal was to get him a big smile. And that was when he held that trophy, man. And I got that picture on my phone.

where you got holding it up and smiling. Let's switch it up a little bit to the offense, though. What was it like adding Saquon from your perspective? What were those first couple practices like with a workhorse like that? Man, when you see him hitting the hole and just know, like, he ran to the zone every time. Like, every time in practice, he always run to the zone.

Run to the zone? The end zone. I'm sorry. He ran to the end zone. Oh, gotcha. He finishes everything. Yeah, he finishes. He finished everything. And they always got somebody in for him. He finished everything in the game too. You hand him that ball, he's going to find a way to break away. See, people don't understand. When you get running backs like that that know how to train for those big gains, they know they have the home run legs and the stride and the ability to separate once they get to second level. If they take that

in practice seriously, it just translates to the game. And I feel like almost every single game he played, we saw at least one in the second half when he had already ran for 100 yards. And it was just so impressive. And sure enough, in practice, he's taken every single run to the aisles. He wore people down. I mean, the offense...

I got to give Stout his credit always, man, because it started with him. He's the technician as far as keep staying on the offensive line, making sure that, as Kelsey know, that you guys are working the technique right over and over and over. You can't get bored with the details. And so you see Stout all the time just always on, always thinking next level. And

And, man, it just worked out so much for him this year, especially at Saquon. He was the ace in the hole for us that we've been needing, you know, just because, man, getting him, you need a home run hitter like that. And that boy was wearing people out. Like you might have got him in the first half. And if you did get him that second half, he ready for the big one.

Right. And I can remember the Saints game when he hit that home run going up to mid-well. You know, it's almost like the same play, that counter play. Boy, whoo, them boys. I wouldn't want to see none of them boys coming my way like a Jordan Malata on a pool. Landon Dickerson, Jordan Malata. Oh, my God.

Oh, that left side and laying already a brick wall, man. Laying hold down that right side. And when we really like I think staying going to be a really good good one this year. We have Makai, but I think staying is a good one. And we probably draft one, too. But, man, we got a really good line. Cam held up all the way through. And I don't see why we couldn't do it again other than just staying healthy. We did have Saquon on the show.

right when he had been picked up. And he did mention he was glad he didn't have to hear your smack talk anymore. You have to apologize for any previous shit talking or what? Nah, nah. Ain't no apologies, man. That's how I felt at the time. Two six.

Hey, that's why I don't ever go too personal because, man, I don't want nobody looking for me afterwards. But at that same time, like, man, I'm just trying to get in your head, trying to have a little fun while backing it up. You know it. But, Kels, just know, man, you was big. You was a part of that too, man. As much as, yeah, you retired, but everybody always was looking for you when you came in. And I think we added a lot of value on just being in that building, man, because that culture is what,

what we did every day, all these boys do is work and they work and they put the work in. And I think we built to that, man. Now, now it's just more about for us, just showing that love, having that access to come in. And I don't want the hours of the coaches, but I want to be able to add value to the organization to keep it going. Well, it's like you're reading a rundown right now, BG. What was the first season like with that?

There you go. What was the first season without the guys that you came in with? You were the last of the Mohicans, so to speak, with Jason and Flesh retiring in 2023. And you already know, you guys share the same type of...

of character and desire to help these young guys out. What was it like being the last guy from the, from the start that, that was there to show the guys coming in and to set the culture, everything, because you need those guys year in, year out, no matter if they're coming from a different team, you got to have those culture centers in training camp and, and early on in the seasons to be able to, you know, get everybody down in the right way. What was it like without Jason and Fletch?

It was different. You know, I would see Kels, so it made it a lot better. But Fletch really didn't come around as much. And I think, I don't know if he was just not wanting to be around because he'd be hunting. You know, I know he's loving what he's doing. Yeah.

But, you know, she was trying to figure out what was going on in August. He was just doing his own thing. And so it was different because that's somebody who had his locker right next to me the whole time, all the way until, you know, he was done. So seeing someone else and more,

Mojo Moro, uh, or Jamal is, uh, is a guy that I really, uh, respect, man. I think he gonna be a guy this year. That's going to have a big year too. Again. Uh, cause you know, it's a lot of guys on that bench already that I feel is going to add value to the team, uh, this year, especially with, uh, milk going, um,

Then we got to replace Sweaty. But, yeah, Fletch was a guy that, man, I was like, dang. We were really lucky because we – I think the Eagles have been so well run for a long time. For Jeffrey Lurie on down, obviously Andy before he left to go to Kansas City. There was such a culture established when we got there.

there whether it was Trent Cole JP Red Selleck Jason Avant like the Eagles have always done a great job of keeping guys around specifically for that I think and

Everybody does it in their own way. Some guys are going to be more vocal like, hey, this is stupid. I don't know why we're doing this. This is the dumbest thing in the world. And you need the other guys to be like, hey, let's just do it for a little bit. We're just going to do it today. And then we'll see how it goes. You know what I mean? We're going to do our jobs. But I'm dead serious. If you never get that side of somebody voicing that,

then nothing really gets changed. It needs to get changed. So the more I used to like early in my career, similar to you, I didn't really understand. I was like, man, can we just go out here and do our thing? And then the older you get, the more you realize like, oh no, it's good to voice that stuff a lot of the times. Cause not only are they feeling it, other people in the team are feeling it, but they can't voice it cause they're not,

the big guys, the big names. You know what I mean? Yep. Yep. I got a quick story. My first seven years in the league, we always sat in the back of the plane and it just, it was what it was. You know what I mean? The coaches stay up late. They got to get ready for the next game plan. The plane didn't have like the big, it wasn't enormous plane where there were multiple rows of like first class players.

For whatever reason, my guy Carlos Dunlop comes in from Cincinnati and he makes his way to Kansas City. At this point in his career, I think he's like a 10 plus, 13 plus year vet. Oh, yeah. Proven, does things the right way, talks to people the right way, comes in and says, what are we sitting in the back of the plane?

for. Man, you and I, we got to say something about this. I'm too old to be sitting in the back of the plane. We got to go ahead. I'm like, man, listen.

Carlos, you can choose our battles here. Right, right, right. That's not the battle. Man, the next week he made it. He talked to somebody in the organization, and the next week we were all sitting up at first class. This is pretty nice. That's nice. The Eagles ain't going to be happy about hearing this because the Eagles still don't – everybody's still in the back right there.

Everybody. And who used to complain about it? Myself. Big Fletch. Big Fletch. Big Fletch. But Fletch was the main one. Fletch was the main one. I got to give Fletch his credit. And he's right. He's stupid. Why the heck are the players in the back of the play? Especially when you've got the

300-pound, you know, 6'7", 6'9", all these big... Yeah, all these big offensive, defensive linemen, man. Let them get some... Let them at least get a seat they can fit in, man. How the trainers up here? What? Like, you know...

Oh, I'm telling you, man. I used to not walk up. I used to always get out the back because I never wanted to watch what go to the front because it'd be like, man, all these coaches eating all this M&M's and stuff like they did or something.

You know, man. But for real, Chip Kelly, one thing I can say, the one thing Chip Kelly had right, that boy got us in the front, boy. He was like, we are coaches. They the players. And it was like, yeah. Everything else was like, all right, coach. Yeah, you got to pick a junior battle. I did want to say before we move on, that is one thing that I really like, and I'm sure you're going to enjoy too, BG, is –

You know, we had the guys that we inherited it from with Trent and JP and Yvonne and all those guys. Now it's really fun for me watching a guy like Jordan Malata take another step as a leader. You know, they already got Lane Johnson in that room. But you get to see these young guys. And you already mentioned Morrow, right? Like a guy that comes to work. And you're starting to see all these guys that are now going to be replacing the backbone of the leaders in the locker room and everything.

That's something I love seeing every single day now. I love that, man. You're right, because that's my biggest question. Like, man, who's going to step up in a big way this year? I mean, I know Nolan. I'll already be talking with him. We always converse because, I mean, we both rehabbing our tricep and everything.

You know, seeing him, I know that I'm like, man, it went from my not even my room because I felt I want a sweaty to feel not depressed. I want him to be able to voice his opinion. Be out there, man. It's your room, man. Like, I'm just here. Yeah, I'm an event. But if you need me, I'm here. But we listening to you. We seeing you every day because you the starter. This show your team. And now I'm Nolan. It's like, man, you did. You did one. You did one. When the guys come in up to me, he did, man. I'm proud of him.

A lot of strides, man. He gave me fits in the game. It was interesting because the play in the run was always the knock. It's like he's lighter and how's he going to do it? And, man, he would cut pulling tackles trying to kick them out. He's got heavy hands, man. He's setting the edge. Oh, heavy hands.

And I mean, no gloves too. Like, that's the thing, man. I got much respect. Put some gloves on. Put some gloves on. I ain't got no respect. Why are you not wearing the gloves? Who are you trying to impress? We all know your hands are going to work just as good with them gloves on. And they're going to, like, I don't know. You right. You right. I don't like...

I don't like this, like, oh, I'm too cool. I don't wear gloves. It's only an advantage. Put the goddamn gloves on, all right? Yeah, yeah. When that ball come in and that thing's sticking and it's sticky, it got you. But yeah, I'm with you. I'm with you, Kel. Jason's hilarious. But yeah, he raw talent. Thanks for presenting sponsor HBO's The Last of Us. Hey-oh! HBO's biggest series, The Last of Us, returns with a new season on Max. Yeah!

Jason's fired up. I am. Five years after the events of the first season, Joel and Ellie are drawn to conflict with each other and a world even more dangerous than the one they left behind. How about it? CNN calls The Last of Us exquisite.

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From Wondery and At Will Media, I'm Misha Brown, and this is The Big Flop. Every week, comedians join me to chronicle the biggest flubs, fails, and blunders of all time, like Quibi. It's kind of like when you give yourself your own nickname and you try to, like, get other people to do it. And the 2019 movie adaptation of Catastrophe.

Cats. Like, if I'm watching the dancing and I'm noticing the feet aren't touching the ground, there's something wrong with the movie. Find out what happens when massive hype turns into major fiasco. Enjoy The Big Flop on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to The Big Flop early and ad-free on Wondery+. Get started with your free trial at wondery.com slash plus. All right, let's throw it back to the 2010 NFL draft.

Did you always know it was going to be the Eagles? No, I only met with them 15 minutes, man. That was at the combine and at the hotel where they had all the meetings at one point. But I think it's different, they said, now. But yeah, I was just 15 minutes, Matt McDermott, I mean, Sean McDermott. And then it was Coach Reed.

I remember them going over my Iowa game because that was a big game of the year. We was going through different plays that I made. I think I probably had like two sacks that game. It was a big one. We lost, but it came down to the last, to the end.

just had a big game. And so it was cool to talk with them. And then that was it. How was that 15-minute meeting with Coach Reed? It was intimidating, man, because, you know, as you know, that big mustache. Oh, yeah.

Not smiling at all. Like, man, I didn't really – even when I got in the league, it was like, man, he didn't talk to us, like, for real, unless you was just a guy that just went out and made plays. And as I continued – like, by my third year, he started to say little things, like, great job. Like, you know, you could see his excitement when people made plays, like how I would see it with, like, shady –

Oh, yeah. Like the offensive side always would get that out of him, especially on offense. But on defense, you had to really work to get that from him. But, yeah, Coach Reed, he was tough, man. And I see him now with y'all, and I love that he got a ring finally, man, because – well, a couple now, but more than a couple. But you know what I mean? Like –

When he was here, he would always get stopped. Before he got stopped at the door, you know, went through some garbage, man, at the end of his stuff. But the reward was so much greater. Losing his son and all that, man, being there for that and being there for him during that time.

All that stuff, man. That's why I was so happy for him. We lost, but that's why I had to walk up on him and grab him at the end because I had to pay the respect for one. I didn't want to run in that moment because as much as I wanted to go to that locker room, boy, and not just dab people up, I had to eat it and be like, you know what? Be a professional, man. Go out and give because when your time comes, you're going to want the same thing. I went to talk to Coach, talk to you, talk to Frank Clark at the time because you know he went to Michigan.

And I felt good, man. Even at that party, it made me feel a lot better talking it out with the team and what went wrong. I hope you went to the party. If not, it's all good. But it just was refreshing after we talked about it, and it didn't feel so bad after we lost. But I was so happy for Coach Reed, though, man, because, as you know, he –

He's an A-list coach, man, and somebody that you're going to miss when he gone. A-list human being right there. What does Andy even ask a D-lineman in an interview? Can you remember? I mean, I know it was 15, 16 years ago. A while ago. Yeah. Did he ask much, or was it mostly McDermott and the D-line coaches and all that? It was mostly McDermott talking. Coach Reed just probably was –

just sitting back, just kind of watching. And then when, uh, I remember when I left, like he just was talking, you know, like low, high, he talk, he wasn't like, it wasn't no excitement. It was all serious. And at the time for me, man, you know, me coming in, I was like, what up? Hey, y'all. Hey, you know that all that. Uh, but it wasn't, it wasn't as many smiles as much as it was smiles on draft day. When they drafted me, they was just asking me about,

You know, my stuff that I think weed was more of a topic at one point in college. You know, just talk about the smoking and all that stuff. But I didn't really have no off-the-field stuff in college. I think I had a – what was it, one –

disorderly conduct for my speakers in my car, you know, stuff like that. I think that's what they – That's nothing. Yeah, just being disruptive. Like it was one of them I had to answer to. I'm a coach. I like that. All right, he's disruptive. I need him. I want my defensive end to be disruptive. So, you know, we talked about that. Yeah, and then we talked about that's it. I'm just being honest. If somebody comes to me and they're like, all right, I got two defensive ends. They're running the exact same speeds, same times.

And the only other information they give me is like one of them never really talks and it's super quiet. And the other one is super disruptive. I'm like, I'm taking the disruptive one. Give me the disruptive disorderly conduct. Give me that one. Give me that one. He got some aggression, boy. He ready. Yeah, right. Yeah, yeah. Got a fire in his belly. I like it. Oh, man. You were already in an Eagles uniform, but what?

What was your first impression of when Jason Kelsey got on the team? First impression? Can you remember your first time being like, who the fuck is this guy? It was the entire season. Well, you know what? That hair. It's that hair. The hair at the time. Oh, there it be. There it be.

Had the long hair. You know, he was, he wasn't as. He had a flowing out the helmet. He had the cape on. He had the cape on. And then we had, who we have, we had Mud, huh? Mud at that time. Howard Mud. Howard Mud. Legend. Danny Watkins. Danny Watkins. Fire truck. Oh, man.

Danny definitely was not at – I mean, he was there more than he was playing football, for real. I got much respect for Danny, though. He used it. Seriously. He used it, man. He used it. At the end of the day, Danny just – he wanted to be a fireman instead of a football player more. I mean, there ain't nothing wrong with that. I respect the hell out of a fireman, right? I respect it. I respect it. Now, it's pretty crazy he got drafted in the first round and then – but having that mentality, but –

I just saw something a couple years ago. He saved somebody's life being a fireman. Like, hey, Danny doing his thing. Hell yeah, Danny. Yeah, Danny is doing his thing, man. I mean, you know, he found his niche for after. I remember my brother telling me.

That Danny bought a fire truck, like one that they weren't using anymore and was just riding around the city. And I'm like, Jason is just going around hammering beers, riding around Philly. You took it to the game. You took it to the game. I'm like, man, what the fuck kind of life? People probably got out of the way, huh? I'm in college still. I'm like, what the fuck kind of life is this guy living out there in Philadelphia, man?

We took it to the game. It might have been the game I tore my ACL. I don't even remember, but we took it to the game. One of them, I'm in there with an axe with a big old mustache or something like that. I can't remember. I thought it was out there somewhere. You got a favorite Jason Kelsey story from your time there? We all know about the trash cans and the helmets being thrown during practices and stuff. Come on now. You got any good stuff outside of those? You know what? If I had to think about...

You know what? Some of his speeches, man, was great, especially like during COVID years when we was inside the bubble, man. Like, I just felt like your speeches always hit home because of, you know, just the realness of a man. And, you know, I just always respect just how like you guys on here, y'all be vulnerable and crying and all that stuff. Like me, I was, I grew up, you know, my mom used to be on me about crying. And so, man, I used to be so tough. Even this, even it felt so good crying when I had,

I did my speech because, man, it's just been a while. You know what I'm saying? For sure. You always try to be too tough. And it's like, man, I love that you guys, you know, wear that emotion on your sleeve, man, because, I mean, we need more of that as men getting that stuff out. And so I've gotten a lot better with that. And I always admire that you can, you know, do that. And so, man, I felt for me, you know, just even with the speeches, you know, we always listen because we knew –

You're just not a bullshitter, man. Like, you know, you might laugh and have fun and all this stuff here and there. But it's more of like when you do get you, you know, opening up and doing some stuff, man, it's always cool because you can tell that it means something to you. So that's what just telling you my inspiration, your inspiration on how you inspire, you know, just me on just like, man, how you can know your emotions. Like, you know what I'm saying? And be OK with that.

That's real, man. Every single time, I was trying not to. I was trying not to cry, but I couldn't help it. Yeah, that's the thing about it. I don't know what it is. It's in the blood. But I can respect it. I got to say, my biggest BG memory, I mean, there's a lot of them, but the one I really think about is the trash talking before the Giants game. I still think about that.

All year, Big Dexter Lawrence had been beating the crap out of centers. And I'm getting ready to go. I got to be on my game right now. Big game for us. First playoff game of 2022. This dude has been killing people. I had already played him a couple times. So I'd already used a lot of my tricks. So I'm like, man, I don't know if I'm going to be able to trick him this time. I don't know if I'm going to be able to trick him this time. I got to trick him into being tricked. Yeah, yeah. I got to outplay the trick. I got to go. He's going to think I'm doing this. I'm going to go over here and do that.

And BG is just talking so much shit to this dude. And I see Dexter up there and he's like, yeah. Oh yeah. He's getting madder and madder. I'm like, God damn it. BG is making my job so much. Yeah.

No, he's just making the job easier because now he's going to be aggressive. And that's how you really trick somebody. Oh, yeah. You get real aggressive. Yeah. And then you can start pulling the chair and get them off their body. It was all good. It ended up being perfect. It was a great game for us. So everybody was playing good. BG, we got to talk more about the trash talking, man. We've shouted out your trash talking so much on this show. Yeah.

Everyone in the league always put you up there in the top of the list in terms of being able to dish it and back it up. When did you start trash? Has it always been a part of your game? Has this just always been how you enjoy playing the game? Or did you like at some point say something to somebody and found out, oh, I could change the way they play and the way they react to what's going on?

I think me being trash talk, especially in Detroit, because people used to come for me because being a linebacker, I play linebacker. And then when you start making a name for yourself, everybody want to come for you, you know, and gun for you. And so people used to talk stuff to me. Yeah.

Because I used to be a person that used to lead by example about how I do and not really talk about it. But then people started saying, man, I want to hear you, man. Like, you know, you leader of our team and they want to. And I used to be nervous on like talking. I mean, I've grown to this where I talk a lot now, but it's like at first it used to be just me doing my job. And then when I get when I get going, I can feel my juice. Yeah. Yeah. What you say?

You know what I'm saying? Like all the stuff you talk to me. Yeah, what you say, I don't hear you talking. Nah, that type of stuff. But as I got to the league, it became more animated, more fun. Always try not to cuss because I felt like that's when the refs throw the flag. I try to have something a little funny. But at the same time, you know I'm serious. Man, I just knew we would go out there for, it'd be like hot as hell training camp. We're all tired of being out there. Is this happening in practice or what? Oh, bro, it never stops. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

We going out there for like two minute drill or whatever and BJ's like, yeah, fat boy, you know what's coming. You know what's coming, fat boy. I'd be like, man, what kind of snap, what kind of hard count was that? What is that? Hey, like, like Kelsey Dewitt's little, that little. I'd be like, man, you ain't fooling nobody with that. Yeah.

Oh, man, we had some fun, boy. I'm definitely one thing about it, man. I'm going to miss that time, them practices, especially because practices got a lot easier, man, because in the beginning, it used to be tough, man. Coach Reed, oh, my goodness. Trying to count. Long drive drill. Long drive drill. Trying to get a little long drive drill in. Oh, you're getting me fired up. You've got to get ready for that.

We got to see who tough on our team. First weekend when we get them pads, Coach Reed, boy, when we was up in Lehigh, he wanted to see who was going to quit and who was going to be the people that, you know, was going to be the people that we was going to take for the team. And, man, we used to do nine on seven. Right. Team run. Then you got, like you say, long drive drill in the end of practice. And it's like –

Boy, is you crazy? You know, he hasn't changed it one bit. He hasn't changed it one bit. It's still that exact. We always start off with team one quick blitz and then we're straight into 907. 907, boy. I love it, man. Cause you really do see some stuff. Yeah. You might wear, wear it on a little bit.

But it ain't two days like how we was. Just imagine two days like how we're doing that one practice that you're talking about. But then we got to do it again. And it ain't no mercy. It wasn't like he'd be like, OK, they had a rough, rough, rough one in the beginning. Let's get it. It's just like, no, next man up. Everybody had a rough one in the beginning. You're about to have another one right here.

Let me ask you this. Is there an art form to trash talking? You do a little background. A little background? Yeah, you do a little background. Like I follow the page. I follow your page. See what you got up. See what you're into. Talk about some good stuff.

I do. Like, you know where I learned it from? I learned it from a little bit of like, you know, just other players on just like, man, look at their Instagram. You could tell you could tell exactly what kind of stuff they into. Talk with them. Like, you know, I'm saying. And so I started doing that later on in my career. Sure. When social media, you know, just became more accessible, like how it is now where you can really just.

look on somebody's page, you can kind of tell. Find anything you want about somebody. You can find anything. And so I started doing that more. But I didn't go, like, personal. Some stuff was just, like I told you, I didn't want nobody coming looking for me after the game. But, like, a guy like Donald Penn. Oh, yeah. Like, yeah, I used to talk my stuff to him, especially, like, during that time where, like, that spicy chicken sandwich stuff popped up. It made me think about him because I remember – Oh, wow.

He used to get in trouble. Like, you know, that's Popeye's. Like, you know, and I was like, yeah, man, we about to whoop y'all because I know you done had about a couple of them. You know what I'm saying? That type of stuff. Yeah.

Because I knew that he was a guy that they had in his contract where if he made sure he stayed under a weight, he can get an incentive on that. So when I found that out, oh, man, I started messing around. That's hilarious. Stuff like that. You know what I'm saying? Nothing like a good heavy joke. Oh, yeah. I mean, I know every week was like, all right, BG, come on, man. Where you at? Jump on the scale? Yes, I'm good today. Thank you.

You know what I'm saying? That's what I am going to be happy about. But I promise you, I'm about to, hey, I bet you everybody have money on the plus side of it. Like, nah, we're going to see BG going to be the slim, slim goody when I get done. I'm not going to lie. Just so you know, BG, everybody thinks you're going to turn into an overweight mess. Oh, yeah. Because you always show up to try.

You would show up to training camp every year, big. I know. To your credit, you would lose weight. Uh-huh. But we know you like them cookies, BG. Oh, yeah. We know you like them cookies. Oh, you got a little cookie monster in you. Oh, man. You know, I love just sweets. But let me tell you, I've been working out. As you can see, Kels, I was in there with you today. I'm going to make sure. For sure.

I'm just trying to keep that routine because you're right. I know Fletch can't wait. Fletch over there. Fletch the ringleader of it. Like, yeah. Exactly. BG going to be this. I'll bet you. I put my money down. It's money down already. But you better get – I'm about to pick it right up. I might bet on Fletch after this conversation. I've had so much more self-control because my wife, you know, she is killing it. She don't play.

Carla ain't playing. Yeah. That's too funny. She don't play. And she like, look, we about to be in weddings. We about to do all this stuff. And you out here, you better make sure that you right. I'm like, I got you, baby. And so. There you go. Accountability in the house. I need accountability partner. And so she the one. She the one. She kind of reminds me of Vic Fangio a little bit. You know, she got a little bit of that Vic Fangio style to her. No nonsense.

I make sure I really want to make change if I tell her. If I tell her, because I don't want her on me, man, saying, hey, you said you was going to do this. Why are you over there doing that? It's like, oh, my goodness. Like, I can't have a snack? Well, you know. It says one, baby. All right. Let's get to a game we're going to play with you, BG. Did you sack him? Ooh.

Did you sack him? That's right. Brought to you by American Express. Yeah, you've played in over 200 NFL games and recorded over 82 career sacks. Yeah. So we're going to ask you today, did you sack him? We're going to give you the quarterback's name and you tell us if you sacked him. Let me see if I'm real good at this. Let me see. Let's see if you can remember. Yeah. All right. I'll start with an easy one. Tony Romo. Sacked him. Yeah.

I can see a picture of mine right now. Sacked him. Drew Brees. Oh, yes, I did. I sacked him. Yep. I think it was a strip. Strip sack, too. Oh, okay. Okay, all right now. Not many times, but I did sack him, though. All right. Eli Manning. Man, let me see.

I'm going to go with yes. You have. I have. You've been in the division for so long. You played him a bunch. I did. Had to. Andrew Luck. Nope. Never got him? Never got him. Okay. Okay. All right. DB got him. DB got him when he played. It was the year 2018. Last play, DB ended up getting him of the game. But no, I didn't get him. I didn't get him.

Lamar Jackson. Yep, sacked him. I chased him down to the sideline. Sacked him. Chased him down. I chased him down and then he ran out of bombs. He ran out of bombs. So, you know, it was behind the line sack. So, it was like, yes, yes. That counts? That counts? That counts. That don't count. That don't count. That don't count. It's on the stat sheet, baby.

Then it counts. Then it counts. What was it like chasing Lamar down? Man, that boy fast. And I mean, when I tell you, he is explosive. And he stopped at the drop of a dime. Like, you got to really take your shot with him. Because if you playing around like him, he going to take off on you. So I just took my shot. And he went out of bounds. And they caught a sack.

That was a sack at the end of the game. You were the closest one to him? Closest one to him. Boy. There you go. You're on a roll right now. You got all these right so far. Aaron Rodgers. Aaron Rodgers. That's a good one right there because I did not sack him at all. What? Nope. Are you sure? I don't know. I can't. I got to remember. Let me see. We got him as the you did sack him. Oh, for real? How many? How many? How many?

Because hold on. Yes, yes, yes, yes. I did sack him 2017. Yeah, I did sack him. I sacked him. Okay. I think we're 26. I know we played him and I remember Nigel Bradham. Nigel Bradham, the year, the game that he caught the pick at the end of the game up there because we had a really good game. Oh, that was 2017.

That was 2018. 2018. Yeah, 2018. 2018. Aaron. Because Aaron wasn't – it wasn't often with Aaron either. Like, you know, like I couldn't get him. He gets the ball out quick, yeah. Man, that ball quick, you know, so he was one that I wanted to get. What about another all-time great, Peyton Manning? Peyton Manning? Yes, I sacked him. I sacked him –

Oh, no, no, no. You sure? You sure you got paid? He threw it away. He threw it away. Did you get the sheriff? No, no, I didn't get him. I didn't get him. We got you as, no, you didn't sack him. No, I didn't get him. I didn't get him. The sheriff had to have had some fun trash talking you back, man. He was one that I would talk to, but he just would look at me like, you know, be like, yeah, uh-huh. You know what I'm saying? Like, even like his brother, his brother was the same way. Eli. You know, Eli just kind of like, you know, do this little,

and just kind of look and go back to the, to the huddle. But, uh, you know who used to talk stuff back to me? Uh, Phillip Rivers. Phillip Rivers. I was about to say Rivers. He's already up there. He was, uh, he was one boy that just hit you on your butt. Yeah. How about that? You know, I hit you with a, uh, like I,

I just remember him first down, hit me on my butt first down. Like, how about that one? You know that. And it was like, oh, okay. You hitting me. You touching me. Okay, bet. Bet. Too funny. Oh, that Packers game was 2019. My bad, 2019. Oh, 2019. Okay, okay. Is there a quarterback you never sacked but wish you did? Let me go through this list real quick.

Who did I didn't touch that I wanted to? I mean, of course it would have been, it would have been cool to get a picture with Vic, you know, sack him, but I got practice practice of practicing.

practice of pitchers and stuff like that but it's so different you know when you in action so Vic would have been one if he would have still been in Atlanta playing down there but I would you know just to say I had to got a sack on Vic and then I got one on Dak I love all I love getting sacks on on Cowboys quarterbacks especially at they place laughing

At they place, it ain't nothing like getting a win in Jerry's world, boy. Because Jerry has said one time that, yeah, y'all drafted him high. Like he ain't, you know, he said something and I had it in my locker.

And I wish I'm gonna get the words if I can, if I could find that article and it just talked about me going high, I would have, I would have had him near if it was my pick or whatever. And so I was like, okay. And so I always, so I always be being with the Eagles and, and yeah, I noted that. And that's why I kind of started building that, that not even, I wouldn't say hatred, but you know, that, that rivalry with the Cowboys, that excitement, excitement, excitement to play.

you know, with them. Who's the hardest QB to, you've ever had like a chance to like tackle? Who's the hardest QB to bring down? Cam. Cam. Big Cam Newton. Or Ben Roethlisberger. Ben Roethlisberger. Yeah, Ben Roethlisberger. He was a slippery big dude. He was slippery. Yeah, I gotta say Ben. He was a slippery big guy.

man. That's too funny. Cam is a, I mean, he's a juggernaut, man. The guy, he could have played any position on the field, let alone how great he was at QB, man. Getting that dude down. I remember watching the first, one of the first games of this, I didn't mind. I even been the first game of the season, but when he was playing for Auburn, he was running around. I was like,

I'm like, man. What is this? Stiff arms and all that stuff, man. It was just like. Running through, over, around everybody. His extension. His extension on just like, you know, his whole body. I ain't want to, you know, say something, be like, people say pause, but you know, his length, I'll say. Ha ha ha.

He's a big dude, man. Yeah, big dude, man. And Ben, though. Ben was slippery. So if I had to say my sacks against Ben, I never took them down. It was more like the end of the whistle just blowing because you got them. You know, that type of sack. Trying to wrap him up, yep. Mm-hmm. Too funny, man. Yeah. And that was Did You Sack Him? Brought to you by American Express. Pretty good, pretty nice. You were all right. You got a little shaky there, but you did good. You nailed it. Nice.

He was a little. I was a little. I was a little like. I couldn't remember. He didn't Aaron Rodgers. He finally came around to it. Peyton Manning. Peyton Manning too. Peyton Manning. Yeah. I thought I got it. That was good though. That was pretty good. It's hard when you got 82 of those things. Oh man. It's hard. I want to. I want to definitely get all of them on the USB so I can go back to it and watch them. I'm going to get Pat Dolan and do that for me. Make sure.

Make me a USB. I'm sure Pat's going to be happy about that one. He'll be excited about it. I'll give him a shout out. I'm going to give him a shout out. Let him know when he do it. Tell everybody, yeah, Pat did this for me. Gotta love it, man. Thank you to our partner.

Yeah, some people just know they can save hundreds on car insurance by checking Allstate first. Ooh, like you know how to check the parking meter first before leaving your car there? Like you know how to check your calendar first before making plans? Yeah, like you know to check your alarm is set first.

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We got to our final section called We Gotta Ask. We're going to ask you a bunch of rapid fire questions. Okay. You don't have to answer them. You can tell us to fuck off, but we are going to ask them. Yeah. Now that Lane is alone of the core four that we've been nicknamed, I guess, who does he miss most out of me, you, and us?

Fletcher Cox. I got to say Kelce because Kelce is in his room and he knows you. He knows you on a deeper – because being in the room is so different, man. It makes it different. It makes it different. Getting cussed out by your coach and how you respond to it is everything. Well, then how about this? Who does he miss the least? If I had to say, he missed –

He going to miss. Oh, that's a good one right there. Yeah. I'm going to go with my boy Fletch because he mad at the world right now. Fletch mad at the world because that Super Bowl. I told his butt to come on back. I thought he was, though. I thought he was going to come back. Who are you telling, Jason? I'm not mad at nothing. I'm happy. I don't want to play in that game. I was done playing football.

I know. I'm at this point now where I'm with you. I'm with you, Kelce. Like, I'm getting to that point of like, man, it's over. It's over. It's cool. Like, you know what I'm saying? I have my time. I have my time. And you know, the next thing is I got a week to get my locker cleaned up. That's what Greg just gave me, a week before I'm moving in to the next. That's because OTAs are starting and they need that locker. Yeah, they need that locker. So it was sad today when I heard it. He told me like, hey, man, I'm giving you that week notice. I know you already been cleaning it out.

But I'm going to need it. I'm going to ask Howie, you know, if it's like if I can extend you a little bit. But if not, you know, you just got a week. And I'm like, all right, bet. You know, and it kind of hit me like, dang, boy, I've been here 15. Dang.

You know, now it's like, but I'm happy, though. I'm so happy that it's over. The stresses of it is over. But, yeah, go ahead. Keep your questions coming. Favorite Great Lake? Oh, I'm going to go Lake Michigan. No! Come on! Come on, man. You grew up right there. Lake Erie. Lake Erie. You right, Lake Erie. Come on, man. That's what we share. When I went up to Lake Michigan, it was like, ooh.

Yeah, it's a little more beautiful. Which one would I rather swim in? Yeah, I'm going to go Lake Michigan. No, for real. That's the one you're going in. I ain't swimming in Lake Erie. Yep. Or Lake Huron. Lake Huron. Huron is good, too. Jason, you can ask this question, Jason. If you could detach any body part, what would you detach? If I had to detach any body part, I would just say... You can put it back on. You can put it back on. Oh, okay. You can take it off and on. Probably...

one of my like a foot or something like that like you know just kind of take a foot off take it off what would you do with it put it up and uh go to bed you know then put it back on hey that'll be like oh man i'm taking my foot off you know to take the go rest and then when it's time to get back you know yeah put it you know you can separate you can separate it there you go separate it you know where i can't get out the bed baby i took my foot off already i took my foot off i can't do it i can't i got

My foot's up there on the fireplace. I can't be getting up and doing stuff. Let me go get my sleep, baby. I'll see you in the morning. I can't go fold these clothes right now. My foot is over there. Yeah, that's a good one right there. I wouldn't, I don't know. I mean, I wouldn't do nothing up here because this is where you, you know, I feel like with that. But if I'm chilling and I want to have an excuse, I do something with my lower leg.

All right. All right. Too funny, man. Now that you're retired, is Big Dom still on your favorite call or your call list, your favorites list? Oh, yeah. Dom going to always be there because I got to make sure that anything that's going on in the city, you know, I want to know about just so that I can know where not to go. Yeah. Yeah.

Because Philly, in the beginning of my career, certain places that I just go eat or just like I just wanted certain cheesesteaks. I'd be like, hey, Dom, is this cool to be over here? You say, yeah, you're all right during the day. Just don't be over there hanging around. Say, all right, bet. You know, I'm going to go get some food over there real quick. I'm going to be in and out.

I'm being an hour. So yeah, Don was always a good, uh, he always gonna be on the favorites. Yeah. Talk about your time at Ann Arbor, man. I was actually at one of your spring ball practices as a, as a recruit. That's crazy. And when I tell you that there was no chance I was ever getting a scholarship to

go to Michigan to play quarterback. I was actually in the QB room while guys like Chad Henney, Ryan Mallett were going over spring ball practices. And man, it felt like every single play was double post to Mario Manningham.

It was crazy. I was just sitting there listening to the lingo. It was crazy being on those practices, man. The prestige and the history at Michigan, you could feel it as soon as you walked on campus. Yep. Yeah. And was that like a huge part of you going to the –

Going to Michigan? You know, I did love the traditions, and I loved the saying of those who stay will be champions. And it's like you start here in the back. The rookies were freshmen starting in the back, and if you make it down to the front, you know, you usually – by the time you got there, you usually be a champion. And I didn't get that, but I loved that slay. I didn't get that. I didn't get that. But I made it all four years. But, you know, I had Rich Rod for two years, and I had –

Coach Carr. Coach Lloyd Carr for two years. My first two with him and then with Dan Richrod came in. But my only two that I really felt like I could have got there as a champion was Coach Carr because my first year we was number two, Ohio State number one. And I think, yeah, we lost to them. Then we went to the Rose Bowl, lost to John David Booty. That was the quarterback. Yeah.

Yeah. And we ended up losing both last two games. The one in the championship to get us a ring. And then we lost in the Rose Bowl. But that was a good experience my first year. Then the second year we went 10-2. We didn't have a chance because they got the playoffs now, but we would have been in the playoffs that year. And that would have been cool to kind of go through this type of style that they had now. But

Those was the only chance that I had. But those who stayed will be champions. That tradition that Michigan brought just from some of the guys that's been there. My dad was a big Michigan fan, so we used to go every weekend. Every Saturday he'd cut my hair and then we'd watch the game. Then I'd go back home to my mom, stuff like that. So when they came calling, it was a no-brainer. After my junior year, I committed right away and was just happy to have that. And then all these other teams started coming out of nowhere. That's cool, man.

Could the average person rush for a yard in the NFL? The average American weighs 199.8 pounds and is 5'9". Well, let me tell you this. If they can take the hit, which I think they can't, you know, fumble! I mean, they can get one. They can get one.

But you got to – hey, you have a dang old Fred Warner come get you and take your head off. Then it's like, oh, okay, you're going to rethink it. Yeah, you can get a yard, but can you hold on to that ball when you get hit? Right. That's it. That's a good point. We haven't heard that one yet. Aaron Donald has said that Jason is the lineman he hated playing against the most. Who's the least favorite –

lineman that you've ever lined up against? Teron Smith, man. That was a guy that even at this level, it was like, man, what I didn't like sometimes is he liked to swipe your hand down, like, you know, that swipe down when you bull because I like to bull rush and catch him with the bull. And he used to swipe my hands down. I would fall to the ground. I used to call him all kind of names. Like, man, that's soft. That's soft.

you out here, you know, but he was a guy that I respect, man, because he always switched it up when I did get two and a half, two against him one game. It was so cool because, man, he was tearing me up in the beginning of his prime a little bit. And I'm just giving him some credit because we had some battles. But for the most part, that was a guy that I always was like, oh, man,

You know, I got to get ready. You know, you got to get ready. Yeah. Got to get ready. I respect that one. What was your welcome to the NFL moment? Woo.

Let me tell you. I know this one was coming, boy. That boy, what's his name? Daniels, D-Tackle, that was at the Packers. What's his name? Why can't I think of his first name? Oh, D-Lime. You know who I'm talking about. But we was on – remember what I was telling you on kickoff? I became the creator name. I created a name for myself, and we was playing the Packers. And that year, it was Mike Daniels. Mike Daniels.

Yeah. Mike Daniels. He was on the wedge. These kids will never know what the wedge is. These guys will never know what it was like. Never know. Never know.

We kicked the ball off, and Mike Daniels, they told him he's going to be the guy that's blocking me or whatever, but I didn't care because I didn't think nothing of it. I'm running down. We kicked it left, and they have a return right. So as I'm running right, he already went right, but he's sizing me up, and this one cracked back. This one cracked back was still going. Oh, yeah, the old ambush block. Ambush. The ambush. Boy, I turned. I'm looking at the back as I'm going this way. All I remember is just looking up.

Because that boy that hit me that hard where I'm my feet in the air. I'm going to get that clip. I'm going to get that clip, boy, because I got to find this clip. We got to get that clip, man, because on kickoff return, it was back in 2013, 2014. One of them years where Chip Kelly, where I was playing special teams and we were playing the Packers.

This one had Eddie Lacy, too, because he was another one, man, that gave me a headache when I used to hit him when he was good. Yeah, they do, man. During that time when that boy was moving. But, man, Mike Daniels gave me that welcome to the NFL moment where it was like, yeah, that boy right there. The next kickoff, I was down there looking like, where he at? Exactly. Put your head on a swivel. On a swivel this time. That was the first time I turned down a –

hit where I was like, man, I don't want to get hit like that no more. So that was that moment. Should, should blindside blocks be illegal or should you still be allowed to do those? I can't, I can't like for me, I would always love it because that used to be my game too. I used to get, catch some people in college. I mean, high school, college, you know, it's a great one when, when, when somebody ran their mouth and you catch them,

Oh, man, sit your little butt down. But now that we can't do it and then somebody try to catch you like that, I try to talk stuff about them. But for the most part, that was what I did too. So I would have to say I would love for it to be back in the game because it brought like one of them highlights for real. I just don't get – they say like it's a defenseless player. Mm-hmm.

What happened to have your head on a swivel? What are you talking about? You got to defend yourself. I don't get this at all. That's the whole point of the league. It's like, man, like when you out there on that field, you better keep your head on a swivel because people are out there gunning while the play is going. You got to keep your head on a swivel. Exactly. Yeah, man, I would love for it to be back. But, you know, we in this player safety league right now. So, hey, we got to do it. We got to do it. It's evolving. It's evolving. Hopefully it gets back to it, man. I got one more question for you.

Which is your favorite Super Bowl? Oh, 2017. Easy? Easy. Oh, okay. Because that play against Brady, man, like I told you, it changed my life. It changed my whole – You signed that picture a bunch of it. Man. I still don't understand it because everybody still be coming to these appearances and I'll be like, man, how did I not meet this person? Man.

I feel like I'd have met everybody in the world. But because it's like, man, that picture right there, man, it's nothing like it was. It changed my life. And then on top of that, got my first one. That was my first championship that I was ever in at any level where, you know, I got a ring afterwards. And so it was like, man, it was cool to

that me and Philly, we all was dying for a ring and a championship, and we got it that way. So 2017 will always be near and dear, but this one, man, was the one, too, because, man, that defense, I ain't never seen the defensive style play that we did this week. I mean, that week of practice and it's translated to the game. So I'm – but I got to go 2017.

Awesome. Well, BG, I got to say, I can't thank you enough for coming on. I mean, this has been awesome. This was great.

Thank you for the stories, man. That shit was amazing. I love watching y'all boys. I'm sure I'll see you up at NovaCare. I better see you there because I'm going to make a bet with Fletch about this weight loss thing. Let's go. I love it. You'll be eating them cookies, BG. I ain't going to be eating them periodically, man. They ain't going to go nowhere because I got these kids. These kids be like, hey, dad, can we go get some ice cream? And you know I want some too. That's right. But I ain't going to do it often. I ain't going to do it often.

Don't forget to check out BG's book. BG's ABCs, man. ABCs. Thank y'all. Gotta love it, man. Congrats on a hell of a career, man. I'll catch you up there in Philly or sometime soon on the links, man. We'll catch up. Okay. Looking forward to it.

Dude, Brandon Graham. How about that one, baby? What a guy, man. Legend. Dude, the shit-talking stories were fucking epic. The guy can tell the story, too. I can't wait to see what his post-NFL career looks like. I know he'll stay around the game and make sure he passes the wisdom and everything. He's just that kind of guy, man. And Philly, I don't even think they knew exactly what they were getting when they drafted him.

all the way back in, what is it, 2009? 10. 10. Because I was 11. He was a year before me. Yeah, I mean, he ended up being an all-time ego. I mean, literally the all-time leader in games played. Yeah, can't ask for a better person, more importantly. I mean, great family man too. Coming out with a children's book, it's so like Fitzbrannon's, what he stands for. Like, just, he's a tremendous person. So, couldn't be happier that he came on the show and looking forward to see what he gets up to next. Yeah.

Especially staying away from the cookies. It's hard. It's hard to stay away from the cookies. It is. All right. Now, before we get into some no dumb questions, I got to make a little statement in the don't believe everything you read kids category or nice realm that you see online. Some false claims were thrown out there that I was doing something in the community that I was not. And.

and I'm not even going to talk about it specifically. I don't want to bring any more attention to that whole nonsense and article and all that stuff. But if you ever want to know exactly what I'm doing in the community, just go to 87 running.org. We're always trying to get out there and get in the Kansas city communities and the Cleveland community. But yeah,

You know, this time I wasn't doing what was falsely claimed by the social channels or the outlets posting all this stuff. So just wanted to set the record straight. Appreciate everybody for always trying to show love, especially Pat McAfee is always trying to look out for the guys in the sports, guys and women in the sports world. And yeah.

Thanks you guys. All right. Now let's get to some no dumb questions brought to you by perplexity. That's right. We spent so much time on this show, looking up answers that were now sponsored by a search engine. That's right. How about that? Perplexity is going to throw in the question. It'll hit you with the answer. Discover fast and reliable search with perplexity today. Hit me with that. No dumb question. All right. Here's, we got a voicemail coming in. Well,

What's up, fellas? My name is Noah. I'm a Lions fan, but I love the show. Okay. Okay. Awesome. I'm 18, so I'm not a parent, but I was going to ask. 18, so I'm not a parent? What the fuck does that mean? What advice would you give to a parent that wants to teach their kid how to be better at golf?

I'm really bad at golf, guys, and I need help. So you're at – That was the weirdest way of asking this. Have a good day. Go Lions.

That's a weird way to ask us to help him with this golf game. What did the water boy ask Mr. Insano? Hey, I'm Noah. I'm 18, so I'm not a parent. And I was like, fuck, where are we going with this? He just wants to let everybody know he's the child in this. He wants advice to tell his parents on what to do to make him a better golfer, it sounds like. From two football players. Well, I mean, good.

I consider myself an average golfer. Well, I would say first thing is probably the thing that you've already considered, and that's get lessons. Nah. Nah, you're right. The rule of 10,000, bud, just pick up a stick and go hit that fucking thing, man. That legitimately is. My number one thing is just play a bunch of golf. Dude, just go out there. Every lie is going to be different. You're going to need to, you know...

have a few extra balls in your pocket when you go and play golf the next time not so you can cheat so you can take the same shot multiple times that way you're getting used to taking all the different random ass above your feet below your feet behind up up a hill down like the slopes and all the divots and all the different types of grass there's so many different fucking shots you're

You're going to be overwhelmed by it if you just jump into it. But it's going to be fun. I got a good friend right now that's actually picking up the sticks for the first time, man. Demetrius. He was fucking hacking it. He was hacking it up. Get the fuck out of here, Al.

But it was funny to see him get into it. Every single shot, after every single hole, he's like, I don't, I mean, you just have so much more respect for, like, the pros. And I'm just like, bro, you are so far behind the wheel in terms of, like, the fucking, what the pros or where they started and all this. Like, dude, not even thinking that.

You were going to come out here and hit a shot like a pro. Like, you got to – your swing, you're such a fucking enormous human being. Either way, I'm getting off track. Yeah. The biggest thing is you get out there, you just fucking hack. You just fucking – you figure out, you know, things and watch some –

Get on the Instagram. Just start scrolling the reels, typing golf at the top. Start scrolling reels. Hear how people talk about golf. If you really want to get good at it, just engulf yourself in the knowledge that. Engulf yourself. Yeah, there you go. That's great. All right. Engulf yourself. Engulf everything.

Yeah. I think this is all good advice. I think the biggest thing is practice, right? Like now, if you take anything you do, yeah. Anything you want to get better at, you just practice that, but not just practice. You, you put practice in with a purpose, right? Ooh, the P and P take this from me. Listen, I am the third to last place finisher at the American century classic last year. So take my advice. I think take my advice. No, seriously.

Practice mostly with the clubs you're going to use the most. So what club are you going to use the most on a golf course? Driver. Putter. Putter more. If you don't three putt, you'll beat most people. If you get two putt every hole, you're going to beat most people you play with. Next club, driver, right? Then your wedges, okay? Get really good at those three things, and you're going to be a decent golfer. You're going to shoot a pretty good score. So go to a chipping green. Get really good at chipping green.

Up and downs, and then always two-putting. Dude, you're going to be golden, Bubba. You're going to be sitting pretty. I can't wait. I haven't played golf with you in forever. I can't wait. I feel like we should do one more. We have a no-dumb question on the New Heights Reddit page. Hey-o! From Tanya Dixon.

12. What do you guys think about the change in the way the downs are going to be measured? Do you prefer the chain gang or the cameras measuring them? I really don't even understand this, to be honest with you. When they say the cameras are measuring them, how are the cameras measuring them? What are we talking about here? Basically, the chain gang is like a secondary measurement mechanism.

Yeah, that's what they did last year, right? No, no, no. They incorporated a chip in the football last year during the preseason. That's what it was. It was preseason. But this isn't a chip in the football. They're solely going to try and use camera technology to determine first downs. But I don't really understand how that's different than when like –

Because obviously everybody's lumping to the conclusion against the Bills game, right? Against you guys, where it looked like Josh Allen was ahead of the first down, Mark. I'm just, all I'm saying is. I don't think it looked like it. I think you could only assume that where the ball was in his arm, that it may have gotten, but you couldn't tell exactly. Well, I think there's a lot of people that think you could tell. I think there's a lot of people that think you couldn't tell.

All I'm saying is I think this rule is here by and large because of that play. But I don't know how this is different. Like they still looked at that play on replay and saw where the ball went. So I'm just confused. I guess I don't really understand how they're measuring the first downs with the cameras.

And how when they replayed them upon challenges, I don't know. I think this is just a big Sony endorsement. I think it's just everybody's going to be talking about Sony Hawkeye virtual measurement system. And this is just like a big plug for Sony. Goddamn. You're right, aren't you? Why else would they fucking give it a Sony Hawkeye? It's not a conspiracy. You're a thousand percent right.

I mean, it's not even a joke. This is how conspiracies work, ladies and gentlemen. No, it's not a conspiracy because there's no fucking chance it would be called the Sony Hawkeye Virtual Measuring System. The only reason that that is a thing is because Sony paid out the ass to have this as a fucking thing in the NFL.

How could I not see this coming? You're hilarious. No, it's so true. Because they would have never put Sony in front of it. Well, no. They don't say like, hey, all these cameras are brought to you by LG camera-like system that fits. No, this is 100%.

I got him going. I can't believe this. I mean, I love the chain gang. I don't know why. I like that it's there. This super, like, way outdated version of measuring first downs. I'm against the Sony Hawkeye virtual measuring system. Super.

simply because it's called the Sony Hawkeye measuring system. Like, don't fucking sell me Sony and your fucking measuring system. Just fucking say, hey, we got a virtual measuring system now. Oh, cool. I don't need it to be called the Sony Hawkeye measuring system. You want to be selling fucking T-shirts? What the fuck are we naming it the Sony Hawkeye measuring system for? Yeah.

It's the Sony Hawkeye virtual measuring system, Jason. They probably created the technology. I digress. NFL, sorry if I blew your cover, but also sorry to the Chain Gang guys, man. We'll miss you. Well, they're still going to be there. Chain Gang is there as a secondary option. I do want to know what this technology is because I'm still confused. What does the Hawkeye virtual measuring system do exactly? Probably see through people. It's virtual, so it's like...

We can like turn people into video games. It's actually complexity. The system uses multiple high-performance cameras up to 10 positions strategically around the playing arena. These cameras capture the ball's movement in three different angles from different angles. Triangulation. It's a good word to use if you want to sell some shit to somebody. Sounds like something that they use in like every 90s or 80s movie, like action movie.

We triangulated his coordinates to over it. Triangulation. The captured video feeds are processed using triangulation principles. It's fucking gibberish. They're killing it right now. To create a 3D representation of the ball's trajectory, data analysis,

The system tracks the ball's position frame by frame, calculates its path, and predicts its future trajectory based on predefined models of the play area and game rules. Predefined models of the playing area and game rules. Hawkeye generates graphical representations of the ball's movement, which can be displayed in real time for referees to

and players. So I just, I don't know what Hawkeye is doing that you can't just see by looking at the camera. It's turning it virtual. Jason is turning it into a video game so that they can determine where the ball actually is. AKA they can see through people's bodies. Go up, go up to tennis, go up to tennis, go to go up to tennis. So in tennis, they can see when the ball hits the line and whether it's in or out. So obviously we've all seen that technology use and it works phenomenally. It's a great, it's a great technology for tennis. Yeah.

They clap whenever it does it. But Hawkeye isn't determining where the line is. Like, the line to gain is established on the field in the moment. So they're going to get the line to gain from the very first set of downs. I think that's why they still need the chain gain. They need the chains to be able to be on the sideline. And that gives them, like, the line. I just...

It makes too much sense that this is just a Sony plug. The more I read this, the more I'm just like, oh, so they're going to go to the cameras and a human's going to look at it. This is honestly what I think has happened. Okay? This is just an out for referees having to make this decision. All this means is they now have a camera that is going to tell you if the ball reached the first down mark, the line, or not. Okay? Okay.

And that way, if the camera and the technology is wrong, nobody can fucking like, you're not going to dispute it. Nobody ever disputes the fucking Hawkeye thing in tennis. They're just like, yep, that was in or nope. That was out. Hawkeye said it. That's all we're getting with this.

know if this thing's gonna be accurate or not but how the fuck do you refute it you can you can call it like anybody can go up there and watch a replay and be like oh that guy isn't looking at the right thing i'm looking at the same thing and that guy's full of shit this looks like a first down but now you'll be looking at it and the hawkeye is going to tell you it's not a first time well guess they triangulated it and hawkeye found sony wouldn't lie to us no they would never

Oh, man, they triangulated it. That fucking got me. All right. That does it for No Dumb Questions, brought to you by Perplexity. Discover fast, reliable search with Perplexity today. Hey! All right, now let's get to a little March Madness Challenge updates. Man, oh, man, what a final four in the men's bracket. And what a very interesting women's bracket it ended up being. Now that it's over and UConn...

Ran away with it. Yeah, it wasn't even close. Yeah. I know South Carolina had an unbelievable season. It's not fun losing the championship game like that. I can share a couple –

Similar feelings with them on that. But the women's bracket, congrats to our winner, Matt Oliver, who would be a tiebreaker by five points. That's right. Well done, Matt. Shout out to Matt. Yeah, men's bracket, we're still recording this before the final. So it's going to be one of two winners. If Florida wins, congrats to Robert Unger.

And if Houston wins, congrats to Dakota Black. How about it, huh? Dakota Black. Sounds like a character in a movie. It does sound like it. That wraps up another episode of New Heights. Thank you, Brandon Graham, for joining us. Make sure you're subscribed on YouTube to the New Heights channel and follow New Heights on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts.

You can listen to new episodes of New Heights early and ad-free right now by joining Wondery Plus and the Wondery app on Apple Podcasts. Once again, New Heights, a Wondery show produced by Wave Sports and Entertainment and brought to you by HBO's The Last of Us. That's right. Follow the show on all social media at NewHeightsShow with one S and

Follow along for all the fun clips that we have from this week's episode. Thank you to our production and crew for putting those clips together and making us look way better than what we are. And to the 92 percenters, we love you guys. We'll see you guys next week. Oh, there it is. Check out that fireman photo. Look at that. That's on the fire truck. That's on the back of the fire truck.

And I think that's the game I tore my ACL. I really do. I think that was the Baltimore Ravens game. Wow. Hey, Kels, man, you got to get that look back, man. That looked clean right there, boy. That is hilarious. I don't know if Kylie is pulling for that one. That's a good beach view right there. That's a good beach picture right there, boy.

Got the sunglasses on. It looked like it's probably September. Looked like it's September training camp. Exactly. It was not good. That shit's funny as hell.

Follow New Heights on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to New Heights early and ad-free. Plus, enjoy exclusive episodes of the show by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app, Apple Podcasts, or Spotify today. Before you go, tell us about yourself by completing a short survey at wondery.com slash survey.