Inside the NFL Owner’s Meeting + Gretzky on Ovechkin's Scoring Record, GOATs & NHL Playoffs | EP 141
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I've been hit all over the field on a football field. The hardest I've ever been hit in my life is open ice on a hockey ring. Like you get a hospital pass going where you're looking back and the defenseman can have a clear run at you, man. Oh my gosh. That is going to hurt. That is going to hurt. You never look back. And secondly, you never have a defenseman that bad that passes a puck that bad. Yeah, there you go. There you go. There you go.

Welcome back to New Heights, ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls. A wondrous show produced by Wave Sports and Entertainment and brought to you by Reese's and their new PB&J Cups. All right now, those things sound delicious, don't they? Get them in grape and strawberry, Jason. How about that? We're your hosts. I'm Travis Kellis and my big brother, Jason Kelsey, out of Cleveland Heights, Ohio. Heights High alumni, baby. What's good?

Shout out to the Heights. Shout out to the Bearcats. Subscribe on YouTube, Wondery Plus, wherever you get your podcasts, and follow the show on all social media at New Heights Show with one S. Jason, tell the people what we got coming up. Oh, we got a great one for you. Woo-hoo.

We always do. We're going to have some recap of my time at the NFL owners meeting, answer some of your not dumb questions. Hey, speaking of great ones, we're going to have the great one. Wayne Gretzky on the episode today. You're going to want to hear that. Stanley cups are coming to a, to a, a, what is it? Coming to a forefront.

Right? We're 14 left. Sure, yeah. The Stanley Cup is almost here. There you go. It's almost here. Panthers one game away. And, yeah, we got a fucking heated battle between Dallas and Edmonton right now. I think that means it's time for a little bit of that news. News. Let's get right to it, ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls. Hold on.

New News is brought to you by American Express. Okay, now you can go. Let's get right into it. Shout out to American Express. Jason, you saved the tush push. Everyone in Philly has been saved. You're like a fucking hero. Stop. Have you ever felt so heroic? You feel...

Like you matter now? No, I never feel like I matter. Last week, the NFL owners voted and the vote to ban the tush push failed. Jason, did you stand outside the courthouse with a sign that said, tush my push, like I asked? Tush my push? Push my tush. No, no signage. I was in the courthouse. I was traversing and talking with the

Other owners and committees and people that were in the room. What did you do? Threaten them? Did you threaten them with like something you would do if they banned the tush push? No, I did not want to piss off any one of these individuals of immense power. I was just there to...

I was just there to offer my frame of reference on the pushing of tushes. Man, I haven't been in a courtroom since I got a jaywalking ticket when I was in middle school. How's a courtroom look in Minnesota? It wasn't a courtroom. It was a conference room at the hotel that we were staying at. Ah, the courtyard. Nice. Nice.

The old courtyard. It was less courtroom and more like legislative room, if that makes sense. Did they put you on the stand and ask you to so solemnly swear? Well, there wasn't a stand. They just had... I did get up there and was able to

Okay, let's fast forward. The reason I was there, or flashback, I guess, was because there was a narrative out there that one of the reasons I retired was because of the play or that I somehow felt like the play led to more injuries or was injured because of it. So I was really just there to offer my perspective on that stuff not being true and

you know, the fact that I think it's a relatively safe play, but they, I did go up there and talk after Jeffrey Lurie kind of started things off and got some things. He kind of opened everything up and then I kind of dispelled those rumors as well as, you know, answer some questions about how the play was run. But for the most part,

It was just awesome to witness, honestly. The legislative process of the NFL, how the owners vote on it, how these proposals come about. I couldn't help but think, like, I can't believe I'm in this room right now, to be honest with you. Like, there's just like...

Hundreds of billions of dollars of wealth just sitting here. Did you wear a suit? I wore a blazer with boat shoes and slacks. Okay. Okay. That one is swagged out. I was dressed. I was looking. You wore a collared shirt underneath or just like a regular? It was a collared shirt. Collared shirt. White button down. Listen, I'm not going to go in there looking like a slob.

Anyways, it was awesome to witness. It was awesome to see how those things kind of take place. And, you know, I really did leave that place, leave the room and the meeting feeling strongly about, you know, how these proposals come about, how the game has changed and the thought that goes into it, the thoroughness that happens.

between the competition committees and the health and safety doctors and individuals and Roger and the owners. There's a lot that goes into a lot of these decisions that are made, and it was awesome to just kind of witness something that, in my opinion, has made the league better in at least our time in the NFL. So, yeah. When Roger walked in the room, did they all go, all rise? Yes.

Nope. No, once again, this is not a courtroom. It was not a courtroom. But there was a jury. There's not a jury. This is, again, legislative, not judicial. Legislative, not judicial. I forgot those. This is more, you know, they're voting on how they want to proceed in business. Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah, so this is a lot different than a jaywalking ticket. Much different. Was there like one owner that kind of like stood out to others?

Like one that was just kind of like... I think the one that stood out the most was Jeffrey because, you know, obviously he's passionate about this. This play has been a big part of the Eagles' success. Yeah, you guys don't win a Super Bowl without it. I will say...

I kid, I kid, I kid. It's one of the greatest teams I've ever played. The official proposal was not targeting the tush push, so to speak, right? It was a targeting. They just wanted to add in the verbiage that used to be there that you can't assist the runner and push the runner, right? That was a rule for 60 years. They wanted to go back to that rule. The reason they changed that rule back in, I think, 2016 maybe was because it was really hard for the officials to

Like, you know, is this guy pushing a defender when it's a pile? Is he pushing the pile? Is he pushing the runner? So they decided to just get rid of the rule of pushing and allow that to happen. And that's when the tush push started. So the proposal was to go back to that. So it's kind of all encompassing any type of pushing. Needless to say, I think that the main reason this is being brought up is because of the tush push and the success of it and the notoriety behind it.

And I think Jeffrey was just, he's been pretty passionate about trying to get his point across. And I don't want to go into too much of what happened in that room because I don't think it's my place. I think it was kind of crazy I was even in the room to begin with. You are the Tush Push, Jason. Yeah, but I'm not an owner. It's not called the Tush Push meetings. It's called the owner's meetings. Did you really make someone cry? Right.

Rumor alert, some NFL owners were reportedly moved to tears listening to Jason defend the Tush Bush. Yeah, I don't know what account this is.

Well, it's NFL Notifications. Yeah. I don't know how. It's NFL Notify. It's clearly, it's got a blue check. It counts. I can guarantee you that, no, nobody cried. Nobody cried. Okay. I'm the crier. Everybody knows I'm the crier. So you cried in front of everyone talking about the Toothpitch? I did not cry in front of this because this was not a moment that warranted crying. Yeah.

I think it's cool as hell that you did this, man. Obviously, everyone listened to your words and the tush push is still in because Jason Kelsey went out there and defended the honor of

and uh and philadelphia's legacy i don't know if anybody's mind changed at all they needed two more votes to ban it so for the proposal you need 24 votes for the proposal to pass yeah i don't know which of these teams are already in favor i mean i know talking to a few of them with even the day of you could just kind of tell which teams were kind of in your corner and a lot of them incorporate the offensive lineman pushing downfield or just don't think that the play should

get removed for the reasons that are being stated. But listen, I think everybody has legitimacy in how they voted. I think that the reality is this was a rule for a long time in the NFL that you can't assist the runner. Both the competition committee and Dr. Alan Sills suggested that the proposal pass and the play be banned one for health reasons and another for competitive fairness reasons. So I think that there's,

You know, a, well, not competitive affairs and more just like they want to see that out of the game. They didn't like the pushing of piles and stuff, but I took away from this meeting.

All of these owners have good intentions and not just in this proposal, in all the proposals. You know, there was multiple things discussed throughout the meeting and it really did. It was really cool to witness how this process takes place. The owners back and forth over the proposals, things that passed, things that got tabled, things that didn't pass. Like I think at the end of the day, it was just awesome to witness and

see how serious each one of these owners take all of these decisions and how it's going to affect the game, what could be byproducts of these changes. It was cool to listen and be in the room with, because I don't think that in a million years I'll ever be back in that room. So I don't know. It just kind of felt surreal being there. Until you succeed, Roger Goodell, as the...

commissioner of the NFL, Jason. I think we, we, we can see by my background that that is not going to happen. I can't even, I can't even get the clothes off the floor, not alone. That background. I thought you were talking about your life background. I don't really want to touch too much on it. Cause again, I don't know like what's privy to share and like,

I don't, you know, listen, mom told us not to kiss and tell. Right. So, you know, you, there's some things that, you know, in the Eagles locker room and as a player, you find out like, what's good to share. And then,

In this world, it's like, listen, I don't know. I just wanted to go there and offer my perspective on the play and dispel some of the rumors that have been being said. Did you get any cheese curds while you were up there? I did not. I was in and out, baby. Unfortunately. I would have loved some cheese curds and a spot of cow. You're a foodie, dude. You got to go in there and grab some curds, man. Get some Minnesota whatever, dude. You won a Super Bowl in Minnesota, dude. I know. Listen, I'm not going to lie. I got some good vibes in Minnesota. Dude. Super Bowl, franchise.

Freaking...

All of America. Went in the Tush Push proposal. There we go. There we go. What else? What else? What else you got? I had a layover in Minnesota once with Delta. Dude. They gave me some service where they drive you to the next gate, and I didn't even ask for it. I don't even know how that happened. That's pretty dope. I'm not going to lie, though. Walking through St. Paul Airport, that thing is pretty sweet. They've got a Topgolf thing where you can go and play simulator golf while you're waiting on your next flight. Eat some Wangs.

Take some hacks. Did that with my guide, old David Glover. Shout out to DG. David Glover.

Yeah, trainer. Trainer in Kansas City. Legendary trainer in Kansas City. Oh, nice, nice, nice, nice. Happy that it's going to be around. But I even kind of said this last week. I think at the end of the day, you know, if it gets banned or not, the Eagles are good at quarterback sneaks. They're going to continue to run those at a high rate. Yeah, I'm with you. I think people make too much of a fucking buzz about this goddamn play anyways. Yeah. It's a good play for you guys. You guys do it well. And it will continue to be a good play for you guys. Thanks, Trev.

For at least one more year. No, dude. And then you'll just have to go to the owner's meeting again. I feel like the Eagles should just not run it this year. Just to... I don't know if that's... I don't know if that's good for the Eagles. Ha ha ha!

We were really good with Carson. I'm not saying they wouldn't be a good QB sneaks. It's just that much better of a play for you guys. Yeah. With the push? You can really see the surge when everybody gets behind him and pushes him. I don't think so. I think that surge is happening regardless of the push usually. We'll never know, will we? No, we do know. We can see it on the tape and we can see it before it was a play. Maybe. Because the push never causes the surge. The push just kind of like gets a little bit extra like –

yardage if it's all piled up. The surge is created by the O-line. It is. It is definitely. The surge is started by the O-line.

but then it's got a nice little double surge in there i don't think so yeah were you there for all of it or just the tush push yeah well i was there for all of it oh that's sweet so you were there for um the olympic flag football approval very much so nice so the nfl is going to allow players to be a part of the olympic flag football team yes we'll see how teams uh

individually choose to allow their players. But yes, that is a fact. I think it's going to be embraced. I think that everybody realizes this is an opportunity for the game to be on a global stage that it usually doesn't get.

And it would be awesome if some NFL players are out there representing the USA. Oh, man, I got to get hip to the rules, man, so I can start to get ahead of the curve. Not so fast. I don't know if you saw this, but there is already a USA flag football team. And apparently these players. That's what I know. I got to get hip to the rules.

These players do not think that NFL players should be playing it. They think they should be playing at it. Well, I mean, the, may the best players play. That's my thing. Here's a quote. Let me read this quote first. So from Daryl Doucette, he is the, uh,

quarterback of Team USA flag football. This is a sport that we've played for a long time. We feel like we are the best at it. We don't need other guys. Darrell Deset III, USA flag football quarterback on NFL players potentially playing in the 2028 Olympics. Is this guy afraid of competition? It sounds like it.

Just have a tryout and the best players make the team. Yeah. I don't know. So most teams are picked by boxing out other people from joining the sport because they haven't played this specific style of football. So I was, I think most other, nobody from Canada can come up here. We got plenty of guys. Yes. So I think most other teams in the Olympics aren't tryouts. They are picked by like coaches and,

They like handpicked the team. So tryouts are like more like individual sports. So like Team USA women's soccer, I don't think that they hold – I could be way wrong on this. I think that those teams are picked accordingly. I don't think that is as much of a tryout procedure. I got you. I kind of am on board with these guys playing. Let's just have these guys play an NFL team that's picked and

And maybe the best team win and represent the USA. Interesting. Yeah. Hmm. What do you think? I wouldn't even know. I mean, if you're right, do they have trials for USA teams? I did some perplexity. Yeah.

Doesn't roll off the tongue, but I did it. They do not hold open tryouts for national teams. Well, you just did women's soccer. I just did women's soccer. I didn't do all. We do every sport. I just can we get to a more. Do they have tryouts for teams as opposed to.

Individual sports. I don't even know how to ask that question. I think that's a good. Do they have trials for Olympic team sports? No open tryouts. No open tryouts. So, yeah, like you're saying. So there's a coach and that coach picks who he thinks his best team would be. I believe so. Yes. Oh, like you have to get the end. So there's Olympic trials, which is what I'm thinking of. You're thinking of trials, which is more individual sports. But that is also it says the U.S. is both individual and team.

Old official Olympic trials. There are high-level competitions where the best athletes compete for a limited number of Olympic sports. For example, sports like swimming, track and field, gymnastics, and wrestling. See, these are all individual sports that also have team components, though. Mm-hmm.

Like a relay component sort of, yes. But keep reading. Keep reading. The trials are more – so for team sports, the process is often a combination of performance in trials, training camps, and coach selection. So the teams are selected after the trials. It's not like you do a trial to get into the team though. Yeah. So it's still – whenever it's a team, it feels like it's a pick. But either way. Back to what we're talking about. Back to this made-up scenario that we're talking about on New Heights. I think it'd be cool –

You've defined the whole show. I really do think it'd be cool if we have, let's just have a team of flag football NFL players play these guys and see if they can win. May the best team win. I think if I recall in three-on-three basketball for, because you know that was an Olympic event this year, or this past year. So three-on-three Olympic basketball, I think they didn't take the best three. They had like a tournament or something where the

The USA team that ended up being like our represented team was like the one that won that tournament, essentially. How'd they do in the Olympics? Jimmer Fredette got injured. Let's not copy that model. I could be off again, though. None of this is legit research here. All I'm saying is I think a coach that is familiar with flag football should select an NFL represented team.

And that team should just play this flag football team that's been playing for a long time and feels like they are the best at it and they don't need other guys. And then whoever wins. This is like a mystery Alaska. Pretty much. This is awesome. I think it's the best way to figure it out. Mystery Alaska won. Because I do agree. I do agree. If these guys are the best, they should represent USA. 100%. But I don't think that I'm pretty. I mean, I've never. I don't know anything about flag football. I feel really confident they're not the best. It's. Yeah.

We got just some crazy, some guys that can do some crazy stuff with the ball in their hands, man. I understand. Even Darnell, watching Darnell's highlights. He looks good. My bad. My bad, Darrell. Darrell. Darrell. Dug it. Damn it.

I think it's Daryl Doucette, if I'm not mistaken. All right. My bad, Daryl. Even his highlights are fucking epic. He doesn't look like Daryl, though. He does kind of look more like a Darrell. Daryl's going to have a little bit more thickness to him. You know what I mean? Daryl's... The Daryl's and the Heights definitely had... Yeah, you're a little bit stockier. You know what I mean? Daryl is more...

This dude, he could move around and slide around. Yeah. No, he's shifty as fuck. He can play. When we think of a quarterback, though, we think of somebody that can really sling it around. I think somebody can do both. I think of Lamar Jackson. There's no chance. Lamar would be – fuck. Nobody's catching him. I want to know – Lamar is more of a Darryl.

He's stocky now, though. That's what I'm saying. He's got a little bit of heft to him. He's got a little bit of heft to him. Like, what if we hold, like, a combine? Dude, I don't... I just think we have the NFL team play these guys, and whoever wins goes. That's it. I don't even... I mean, if they're the best team, they should represent us, but I...

I feel like if we put Lamar Jackson, Tyreek Hill. Do you think it's as easy as putting Tyreek Hill outside and having Lamar just throw a goal ball to Tyreek? I mean, I think that alone would probably be pretty effective. But I think that it's going to be also more than that because there's other players too that are going to be out there. The problem is I don't know flag football that much. And I don't know what skills you want. But I feel like just speed is usually pretty good. Yeah.

And the NFL has speed. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Has a lot of it. Yes. The flag football game in the Pro Bowl, they kept blitzing. Eli's team just kept blitzing. And they couldn't stop it because they couldn't avoid the sack. Like, you don't have to beat a blocker, so you don't have to be big. You just need to be quick and agile.

So linebackers aren't going to be on this team. It's going to be safeties, DB, like the defense is going to be very heavily. Damn it. Well, I mean, maybe not. Maybe a big body receiver is a mismatch for some of these shorter quick guys. Maybe. Do you have to play both sides of the ball? Again, these are questions I don't know. Good point. Let's keep it moving.

We have a new award in the NFL. We do. We do. I was there. And Jason, you actually won this award. No, we did not. I've never. Nobody's ever won the award because it's a brand new award. No, but you won it. I did not win the award. You're definitely getting a trophy. Nobody has ever won the award. I do vote on the award. I am one of the select members of the committee that will decide who wins this award. Dude, you're like two steps away from being a commissioner.

Are you kidding me? You're like, you're go, you're trajecting in that direction. Pretty sure that's not going to happen. Dude. Next, next is you'll be in charge of the fines. Yep. Yeah. Not going to happen. He says I'm fine. Anybody all year. Yeah. It's just fun.

Back to this, the protector of the year. Do you have information on how this all began or how this all started up? Well, I'm pretty sure it started. So Andrew Whitworth and Roger were on my late night show in season, and we talked about having an offensive line award. And from that, they kind of put together a list of guys, seeing if they'd be interested in helping kind of give this thing some life.

There's a lot of icons of the game and the position that will vote on this. And the NFL got behind it. It's going to be called the Protector of the Year. It went back and forth on the name. I think at one point it was the Shield or something like that. It's very tackle dominant. So they went towards the Protector of the Year being the Offensive Alignment of the Year, essentially. Very cool, man. So this will now be at the NFL Honors. It will be. They'll honor an offensive alignment finally. Yep.

Yep. Big Andrew Whitworth has been instrumental in kind of like leading the charge on this. So there have been 10 protectors of the year. The last 10 years, they did say who would have won these. No. DraftKings just made some weird list. This is not like an official thing. Well, I think DraftKings should come –

to you and give you a fucking trophy because you were the best protector in 2021. I mean, it's not even my best season. My best season was 2017 by far. So now you're saying you were better than Andrew Whitworth in 2017? I'm definitely not saying that. I think this is going to be an award that is heavily dominated by offensive tackles.

Because tackles are more of the limelight of the position. There's also a lot of people that are going to be making the decisions, former tackles. And tackle is just a harder position. Like if you're dominating a tackle, you're freaking getting the job done now. That's one of the highest paid positions in the league. Yeah. I mean, it's very difficult. And the guys that do it at a high level should be rewarded. Guys, we're giving these guys way too much money. We got to get an award for them.

Hey, should we give Jason Kelsey the protector of the year when he doubled a nose guard with the left guard for 80% of the snaps? Or should we give it to Dwayne Johnson who had to one-on-one block Von Miller? Nope. Nope. We got to give it to the guy that's in the front of the tush push. This play is unstoppable. Why? Because of big old 62.

Hard Knocks news. The Buffalo Bills will be featured in Hard Knocks this year on HBO, their training camp. And it's going to be exciting. You know, finally we get some inside access to what the Bills got going on over there with Josh Allen and the gang. And the NFC East will be featured as the in-season edition. So we'll get the entire NFC East. Do we like the picks? Yes, of course. I like all Hard Knocks picks. You can do any fucking team in the –

the league and it's going to be entertaining. Neither of us have done hard knocks. No, I haven't. I don't think I've seen Jason do it. The only thing we did the one year Amazon did something similar and I didn't interact with it because it was just like hard to really know what it was. So I kind of like stayed out of it, but

Hard Knocks has not been done with the Eagles yet. This will be the first year. Just so everybody knows, each team has their version of kind of what Hard Knocks is. The Chiefs have a YouTube series called The Franchise where they do a season-long kind of – they recap every single week and you get inside access through that. But Hard Knocks is just –

The training camp ins and outs. I remember growing up, it's not as much this now, but you see guys get cut. You see guys make the team. It can be a happy and sad story all in one. Hard Knocks is always interesting shit. You get to see the characters that are the NFL. Some of these coaches, some of these equipment managers and trainers and stuff, you get to see inside these teams

from a different point of view. We do not have – I don't know what the franchise is for you guys. I would say the Eagles have not had any type of exposure like this in the middle of a season. We have our own YouTube channel and stuff, but I don't – this is going to be a whole other level of a look into the inner workings of the Philadelphia Eagles, I believe. It always depends on how open the team is to kind of allowing it.

And I haven't, I'll be honest, I haven't watched a lot of in-season hard knocks. I've always been accustomed to the training camp one. That's what I grew up loving, like the Cincinnati Bengals, the New York Jets with Rex Ryan. I think that the Lions do the first in-season. I remember watching clips of that. I'm right there with you. I've never watched the in-season one. I've only seen clips of the in-season one. They moved last year to the conference setup instead of just doing individual teams. So last year was the AFC North.

And this year it's going to be the NFC East. And I think it's a good choice by the league. I think it's going to be a competitive year for the NFC East, even though the Eagles are the favorites coming out. Washington was really good last year. They've improved this off season. The Giants had a really good draft last

And it's also just four major teams and huge markets that have a lot of history in the NFL and a lot of animosity towards each other. So I'm going to watch it this year. And I haven't watched. And I like the AFC North. That's my conference. That's what I grew up on in Cleveland, Ohio. Come on now. But I can't wait to watch this one.

I'm with you, dude. A.J. Brown is already out, unfortunately. He retweeted NFL Films' account when they announced that the NFC East will be a part of the in-season hard knocks. He just said straight up, nope, with a period on it. And we know A.J. isn't about this kind. He's very, you know, he's not for the flashy inside scoop stuff like...

like a lot of guys are, but I'm not saying there's anything wrong with that. He's just not, you can tell he's not a part of it. He's not about that. Do you think he's saying nope because he's out on being a part of it? Or the battle for the East. Or the battle for the East. Yeah, that might be that. I feel like he's kind of saying, yeah, there ain't no battle. We're the reigning champs. That's kind of the vibe I'm getting from it, but maybe not. What do you think? I think he both feels that there is going to be no battle for it. And also that...

That's so good. And that's new news brought to you by American Express. All right, before we get to Wayne Gretzky. The great one. Let's get to some no dumb questions brought to you by Perplexity. All right. Discover fast and reliable search with Perplexity AI today. Holly Halls, if you could bring back one discontinued snack or food from your childhood and it would taste exactly how you remember it, what would it be?

I don't even know if I can remember a discontinued snack or food. I looked up a list. I looked up a list on Perplexity. Oh, nice. There we go, Perplexity. Help us out here. Notable discontinued 90 snacks. That's a great question. Butterfinger BBs, those are good. PB Crisp, I don't remember those. Choco Tacos discontinued? Sadly. I was wondering why they stopped serving them in the ice cream trucks in Seattle. I thought they just weren't selling enough of them.

wait why would they stop selling those are you talking about the same tacos taco taco the frozen ice cream the tree is that what it is yeah it's a frozen ice cream sandwich but a taco no it's not a klondike it's this yeah it's got like a hard chocolate shell and then it's got like chocolate woven into the vanilla ice cream in the middle when did that stop i think that stopped recently because they unless they had a bunch of them stockpiled in the

fudgy wudgy carts in seattle city discontinue to 2022 see i'm on top of the choco taco lore jesus teenage mutant ninja turtle pies don't even remember those crystal pepsi i think everybody's happy that's gone uh oreos cereal don't remember that air crisps dude i remember that dude i'm the drink just took me back dude fruitopia fruitopia doesn't exist anymore

i had fruitopia every day every in high school day in middle school it was when i was chugging fruitopia they said it was discontinued in 2000 maybe i didn't have fruitopia i thought i had a fruit punch for topia every day when was it discontinued i'll go back up hold on it couldn't be 2000. where was it uh it says early 2000s okay so it was still there it was right before it was right before it was still there okay

Yeah, I definitely had it in high school, too. Dude, I'm going Fruitopia. Dunkaroos don't exist anymore? I just had those things like two years ago. Dunkaroos are bangers, too. Gosh, damn. Stopped in 2010? They could have brought, I think they brought back Dunkaroos for like a limited time. But yeah, they did stop making just the serving of frosting that we used to eat. Planters, cheese balls, Keebler, Munchums, crispy M&Ms, swoops. Hmm.

I'm not going to lie. I'm not hating that any of these are discontinued. Butterfinger BBs were really good. They were good, but it's not like I'm that upset about them not existing anymore. Well, you're an adult man. This is not that bad. Choco Tacos I'm kind of upset about because I tried to get one a couple years ago and they didn't have them. I was a little bit upset about that. They should bring back Fruitopia, though. It's got real fruit in it. It was healthy. I remember going to my mom.

And asking her in middle school, because we used to get a like school lunch, going to my mom in middle school and be like, mom, can I get like $5 a week so that I could get a Fruitopia every day? Because a Fruitopia was a dollar at the end. They had one like drink machine, like vending machine. You could go and get a Fruitopia every

instead of like the milk or the water that they were giving us in the lunch line and it turned into me just going and buying 50 cent honey buns like a

a ridiculous like five dollars worth of fucking honey buns on monday so good and i came home one day with like i like threw my book bag on like the couch or something yeah mom was like what the fuck

is in this bag mom didn't swear but she's like what the hell is in this bag she opened up the bag and it was like a grocery are you stealing honey buns from the gross from the store i'm like no i'm using the money you gave me i'm stocking up so i can have these all day every day that's great yeah and that's when my mom stopped giving me five dollars for for for dopias

because i was turning into a big boy yeah she's all right gotta love it shout out to mothers all right well well so what's yours i said fruitopia was my uh if they could bring it back what are you that i could taste right now too i could taste the fucking green one man it's so good it's like a kiwi strawberry some shit what are you going with dunkaroos are a close second for sure you're going choco tacos it sounds like

Yeah, I'll go Chuck Otago. There you go. Way to get out of there. That's it for Notum Questions brought to you by Perplexity. Let's get to this Wayne Gratesky interview.

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This is the longest one I've ever had to do, so just be prepared, okay? Alrighty, our guest today is one of the favorite athletes of all time for both of us. This is a true honor. 15!

15-time NHL All-Star, 9-time NHL MVP, 10-time scoring champion, 2-time Conn Smythe Trophy winner, 4-time Stanley Cup champion. Still holds the records for most points in assists in a career, most goals, assists, and points in a single season. Yes, sir. And nearly 60 other NHL records. Ha, ha, ha.

God damn! He is a member of the Hockey Hall of Fame, member of the Order of Canada, the first player to ever have his number retired league-wide. God damn! These are a lot of stats. God damn! He is the star of the greatest hockey game Travis and I have ever had the joy of playing. Please welcome the great one, Mr. Wayne fucking Gretzky! Yes, sir! Yes, sir!

I don't know what to say after that. Dude, absolutely epic, man. Exactly the same way I scripted it, but well done. Well, that felt like it took forever, but it could have taken so much longer. I mean, the amount of records you hold in the NHL record books is truly remarkable. Unbelievable. Do you have one that you...

means the most to you like which of all of your records are you the most proud of if that's easy well first of all hey it's a pleasure for me to be here on your show love you guys and uh it's an honor for me to be part of uh being with you guys for a day so thank you again very much oh my gosh the man as you guys know being a professional is such a thrill and anytime you get any record it's a thrill

And it's an honor. And so for me, each and every one felt the same. But if I had one record that I cherish the most, it's the record that...

that I think is going to be hardest to break. And that was, I scored 50 goals in 39 games. And I think for somebody to get 50 goals in 38 games, as you guys know, the athletes get better every year. The equipment's better, the coaching's better, training's better. It's just sports is better today than it was, but that's not knocking what we did back in the 70s and 80s and 90s. 20 years from now, it's going to be better than today. So I'm proud of all my records.

Heck yeah. 50 goals. That is insane. Oh my gosh. Did you just feel unstoppable that year? I mean, just everything you sent at the net went in? So the record was 50 and 50.

And then Mike came along and he tied the record 50 and 50. He scored two goals in the last seven minutes in his 50th game to get 50 and 50. Epic. And I remember watching it and seeing his face and the jubilation and the joy he felt. So I was driving to the rink with my roommate and I had 45 goals in 38 games. I was a little more edgy than normal heading to the arena. My buddy turned to me and he said, are you okay? And I said, you know,

I just thought of this. If I don't get 50 and 50 now, people are going to say I choked. So I'm thinking before the game, I'm thinking during the game, I'm like, gosh, I got to get to the 50 and 50 or I'm going to look like a miserable fool. There's no way. I scored two goals, I got three goals, all of a sudden I had 49 goals.

And I'm like, all right. And I scored the 50th goal. My buddy turned to me and said, well, I guess you don't have to worry about that 50th anymore. That's awesome, man. Recently, Alexander Ovechkin, ironically, just around the same amount of games, just, you know, past you in most career goals ever scored. And it was awesome to see you show that respect and that class to him. When you set that record or at the end of your career in 99, did you ever expect that that thing could be touched?

Like it was mind blowing that anybody is even around that realm. I don't know. We all hooked up. But listen, I broke Gordie Owls record or the night before I was having dinner with my dad. And I said to my dad, I said, you know, in some ways I'm kind of embarrassed because it's a different era and a different time from when Gordie played. And he was such an icon and he was my idol. In some ways I'm feeling kind of guilty because,

I'll never forget my dad saying, listen, you just have the same dignity and respect that Gordie Howe has for you because he's truly happy for you. So when somebody breaks your record, you be as classy as Gordie Howe. And I remember I looked at my dad and I said, well, can I just enjoy it for a little bit? Already talking about getting broken.

I had so much fun. The NHL took care of my wife and I. We flew up there. We were at the game. I remember saying, gosh, the play in Chicago tonight, he might get three tonight. We got to go. He got two goals and tied it. My good friend is the assistant coach, Kirk Muller. We went for dinner after the game, and I said, why didn't Ovechkin go on the ice in the last minute? You had the empty net. You were one of the coaches. Why didn't you put him out there?

And he said, we tried to, and he said he didn't want to break the record on an empty net goal. So showed you the class that he has, which was wonderful. So we got to go to Manhattan, spend a couple of days there. My son lives in New York, so we spent a few days in Manhattan, got to see him play on the island. And when he did score the goal, part of me was like, gosh, I was kind of looking forward to going back to Washington. They were playing Thursday that week. It was fun going to hockey games, you know? Yeah.

No stress, no pressure. We knew eventually he was going to break the record. And he's just a wonderful young man. And I think that his ownership group, Ted Leonis and the hockey club and the coaches and his teammates and all the teammates he played with over all his years, he deserves the record and good for him. He's made so much for hockey in Washington, for the NHL, and of course in his own country, Russia. So I'm proud and privileged that he broke it. And I'm happy that I can say he's a good friend.

Man, that is such a cool story. Just to hear how much class and respect is in the NHL, and you guys have been doing it right. I believe his rookie year, you were the coach of the Coyotes. Yeah. And Ovechkin, he scored the goal in 2006. How crazy is that to come full circle? Somebody asked me the other day, they said, when did you realize Ovechkin had a chance to break your record? And he said, when I was coaching against him, I think his first year. Really?

Really? He went through the whole team twice and scored on his rear end, on his back. I remember licking around going, what just happened? And not that he beat players, he beat some good players. Like, they beat some NHL guys, and he beat a good goaltender. So, hey, listen, you know,

That's what makes sports wonderful, right? When you think, oh, my God, can we get any better? Then another guy comes along and you go, wow, that guy's phenomenal. And then every sport's the same, whether it's football or basketball, hockey, baseball. And we just sit back as fans and go, you know, this is wonderful. This is great. We get to watch. We have bleacher seats here and we get to adore these athletes. Look at Caitlin Clark, how she's kept. Oh, yeah.

just taken over the country, for that matter, maybe the world. She's encouraged so many young girls now to participate in sports, whether it's basketball or soccer or volleyball. My dad used to always say, the greatest thing about sports is that you learn so much about real life. You learn how to be unselfish. You learn how to be dedicated. You learn how to work hard.

you learn how to win. And then you learn how to pick yourself up off the ground when you lose. And that's what life is all about. And so I just have so much respect for so many of these athletes that come along now and

As a fan, I just love it. Hell yeah. Absolutely. And I think we both can speak to this. You know, we didn't really know what hockey was that much growing up at first. And I think what you guys brought in that era, in particular you, growing the game. I mean, it became so much bigger in the United States at that time. And it caused both of us to start getting it. I mean, started making movies about it. Slapshot came out. Then they had the kids movie with the Mighty Ducks. And all of a sudden, everybody's playing hockey.

Yeah. You know, hockey has grown so much. I would say this is like Gordie Howe and Bobby Howell and Bobby Orr. They were the sort of the golden age of the 60s and early 70s. Yeah. And then, you know, the Islanders were so special in New York. And then, you know, I got traded to L.A. And everybody goes, you know, like, did you go to L.A. to outgrow their sport? And I really didn't. I went to L.A. because I thought, OK, yeah.

This is going to be really good. I'm really excited about playing in LA. I want to be part of growing a franchise and helping hockey. But I didn't realize at the time when I went to LA that Steve Iserman was in Detroit and Mario Lemieux was in Pittsburgh and Brett Hall was in St. Louis and Mark Messier was in New York. Legends. I don't know if all those guys are really good players, but

But they were incredible off the ice too, and they had charisma, and they loved the game. So we had this big wave that kind of went all at once, and it was a perfect storm, right? And then all of a sudden, the Mighty Ducks came in. I'll never forget Michael DeEisner having dinner with them one night, and he said, you know, I'm going to have an NHL team called the Mighty Ducks. I remember looking at him going, you've got to be crazy, right? NHL team, the Mighty Ducks. Right?

Well, Janice is me, you know, he probably is the number one marketing man in the world. I think he knows what he's doing. Yeah, right. Oh, yeah. Nothing was better than the than the 90s, though, and seeing you guys, the names you just threw out there, Messier, Lemieux. I mean, you name it, man. You guys had that thing rocking and rolling, especially for two young guys like us out of Cleveland, Ohio. Yeah.

we didn't even have a team so we were just fans of the game in the league seriously wide yeah i played an exhibition game in cleveland i can't even remember what year it was but it was somewhere between 87 and 91 we played an exhibition game yeah and the gondorina yeah gondorina oh yeah we know the cleveland barons real well dennis marook was their uh

go-to guy in those days that's too good man how about the shout out to the barons baby yeah we had we had a coach that actually played for the barons for a little bit we gotta ask man do you have you have so many good nicknames do you have one that you just you you chuckle at or you like the most or you got the great one we we found out that uh one of your early nicknames was the white tornado not gonna lie that's pretty good because i wore white gloves

Oh, yeah. I was playing well, and I went to this tournament in Quebec City, and they drew really well. We were drawing 15,000 people a game to watch us play. And I wore white gloves, and somebody wrote in French, she's the white tornado. My dad hated that one. He hated the gray one. I think my favorite nickname was Doc. And the golf world, through Dustin and all his friends,

I've known anywhere on the golf course as Doc. And one of the things I said was I became an honorary doctor at the University of Alberta. Very cool. I remember I said to somebody one day, you know, Dr. Buss wasn't really a doctor, but he's an honorary doctor, and they call him Dr. Buss. Can somebody call me Doc? My kids sometimes even call me Doc. I love it.

So that's probably my favorite nickname. I'll forever call you Doc. For sure. There you go. Let's shift to the current Stanley Cup playoffs. Right now, four teams left. We obviously got Edmonton leading 2-1. The Panthers are up 3-0 on the Hurricanes.

Who do you think is going to shape up into the – is it going to be a finals rematch? Yeah. Well, listen, I want you to know I'm the only guy in TNT on that panel that picked Edmonton to get to the finals. Are you? There you go. Okay. I picked Tampa Bay from the east, but part of my pick at that point in time was T'Chup was hurt, and he's such a –

Big part of the success of the Panthers. And I wasn't sure he was coming back, but he's such a great player and such a good team player for that team. Tough guy, man. Listen, you guys know how it is. When you win a championship, it's hard to knock off the champions. I mean, they know how to win. They know what it takes. They focus hard.

They know how to keep the distractions away. Now, I will say this. Edmonton learned a great lesson last year losing in the finals. They'll be a little bit different, a little bit more prepared, and some of the things that won't be surprised is off the ice. But they still got to get through Dallas because Dallas is so well coached. Branton and Dre, this kid is a tremendous hockey player. Their goaltender, Ottinger, is really good. They're big players.

They're well coached. That series, I still think it's going to go seven games. Florida looks like they're in a great position. They win tonight. They're going to get a nice break. As you guys know, you get those breaks...

It's more mental than physical sometimes. You get that mental break, right? And so Florida, they'll regroup. They know what it takes to win. They'll know how many days they have off before they play the first game. Again, they're well-coached, well-managed. I'd be hard-pressed not to think that it won't be a rematch in Florida-Edmonton. The difference is this year, Edmonton would have home ice advantage, which in the playoffs, four to seven is a big difference. Yeah.

I'll tell you what, man, that back and forth that they talked about last year going seven games or whatever from Edmonton all the way down to Miami. And like that time difference is like a seven hour flight. It's absolutely ridiculous. It's crazy, but I'll tell you something even crazier. Times have changed.

In 87, we played the Stanley Cup Finals, seven-game series, Edmonton-Philly, and we flew commercial, the Edmonton Oilers. Oh, no way. You're like, you're sitting in coach. The next morning after game two, we flew from Philadelphia to Toronto, Toronto to Edmonton, went to the arena, practiced.

But we didn't know any different. We loved it. Oh, yeah. Like, you know, what else are you going to do? We didn't think we were being treated any worse or poorly. We loved it. We were all together. It was just part of our life, right? We had no complaints about it whatsoever. And in those days, if you sit in the middle of the airplane, you know, they had smoking sections in those days. Yeah.

You got the blind guy to be like choking and say, oh my gosh. I've broken their eyes getting out on the ice. But that was, all the teams did it. That's the way we, that's, we didn't know any different, right? It was fine. Yeah.

I'll tell you what, whenever we go overseas or we do like an international game, a lot of the international travel, you got to go through international customs. So you're going through the main concourses of a lot of these big airports overseas. And I'll tell you what, man, some of the best...

memories and stuff or after you win a game and you get to go enjoy walking through the concourse joking around with all the guys i can i can i can see that being a hell of a time especially if you're in the if you're playing for the cup like it doesn't matter how you you get bussed there and back you know no we we didn't we didn't complain one second we were loving it we're all together and

I wouldn't have traded it into the world. That's cool. But you're right. Florida-Edmonton is a lot of travel. That's crazy. It's like an eight-hour flight. And not to mention when Florida gets off the plane, they got to go against McDavid and Dreisaitl. The fastest guys ever, yeah. Yeah.

Let's go, baby. It's something different watching hockey in person than watching it on TV. And I'll tell you what, I went to a Stars playoff game last year and seeing the action and seeing how fast those guys are, man, it's mind-blowing. It is so unique. I always say our sport, if you watch it one time in person, you're going to sit back and go, oh, my gosh, I didn't know it was like that. When I retired in 99, we had two more children.

And about the age of eight, and we were in Thousand Oaks, California, not a lot of hockey out there. And about the age of eight, my son said, can we go to a hockey game? So I called my friend Luke Robitaille, and he got us seats on the ice, my wife and I and my son and a friend. And, you know, on the ice, how big and fast they are, like they –

run around and it's physical like your sport. Crazy. It's more physical than people even see or believe. Oh, yeah. My son got up and he turned to my wife and he said, be really honest, is my dad really playing this league?

It's a whole different level when you're there. Oh, yeah. You respect the players after we got there. I don't know if you guys followed the Winnipeg-Dallas series really close, and it was physical, and you had to be a man to play in that series. And unfortunately, one of the players on Winnipeg's father passed away the night before game six. But one great thing about our sports is the handshakes after a series. But the...

Pure compassion that the players had for him and his family was incredible because they just spent the last six games trying to kick the crap out of each other and to see the emotions and the true emotions of

Hey, it's a game, but we're family and friends. That's what's really important in life and in sports. And so it was really great to see and be part of. I was there and I thought it was so emotional. Absolutely. I mean, I can believe it. There's two things you touched on that I think have always been true for me with hockey. And one of them is...

I've been hit all over the field on a football field. The hardest I've ever been hit in my life is open ice on a hockey ring. Like you get a hospital pass going where you're looking back and the defenseman can have a clear run at you, man. Oh my gosh, that is going to hurt. That is going to hurt. You never look back. And secondly, you never have a defenseman that bad that passes a puck that bad. Yeah, there you go. I always said this, I never played football, but

But I would watch the games. My son played in California, and it was always fun because Joe Montana was always at the games. His son and my son played together. I could sit with Joe, and nobody ever bothered me at the games because Joe was there. Everybody wanted to talk to Joe. But just to watch the game. And the one thing that I see the difference in hockey and football, they're both physical. But in hockey, you kind of knew where the guys were in football.

Guys come out of nowhere to hitch it from the side. At least we know where the guys are. There's only four of the guys coming at you or five guys. But you guys, you've got 11 guys that are trying to get you. Half of them, you don't know where they are. And that's what always amazes me about football. That's right. You've got to have that head on a swivel. Oh, yeah. Always.

You talked about the guys in the Winnipeg and Dallas series. Hockey has such a culture to it that is just – everybody is truly – I don't even know how to describe it, but I felt like it was like that way even growing up. There's such a tight-knit culture to the sport, to the NHL. You're waiting around to go to Ovechkin's time when he's going to break your goal, and it just –

That's something I've always appreciated about the sport. Even growing up, the parents, it feels like there's just a culture to the sport that is inclusive to everybody. I don't know. You've got guys throwing haymakers on the ice at each other, then afterwards shaking each other's hands. There's such a class and respect, but such a toughness to defending and being there for your teammates. People ask me, sometimes I don't even have the answer because

I watched these guys, and a lot of them, I'm very proud to say, I don't have any enemies of players I played with or against. And I would think that I would help to try to do anything for guys that were ex-players. We're all eventually alumni. That's the one thing we have in common. I used to do a fantasy camp in Vegas. I had a friend there one day, and I had all these guys. I bring in 14 NHL guys, and I put two or three of them on each team.

so that the campers could get a chance to hang around with them, see how they work, get to know them personally. It was just remarkable.

And one day I said to my buddy I grew up with, I said, come here, I want to show you this locker room. And I had like Chris Chelios in there and Marty McSorley and Shane Corse and all these guys. Oh, man. So cool. And I said, you know, it's amazing. Those guys fought each other for 15 years. Not like one time in their careers, but they fought each other and whacked each other. Every time I see Chris Chelios, I say, how are we doing? I say, well, good. My wrist isn't as sore as it was last time I saw you. Yeah.

But I was hockey, you know, battling to try to win. Thank you. When it's all been done, we're all on the same page. We're all trying to help each other, do things for each other and help each

this person's charity or that person's charity. And that's what makes our sport so wonderful. But that starts back in the 60s and 50s from guys like Gordie Howe and Bobby Orr. And then they pass it on, right? And the guys pass it on. 20 years from now, their kids are going to be saying, yeah, I remember Crosby and Ovechkin. I remember McDavid. You know, those guys really showed me the way. And that's the way hockey is. Our culture has always been like that. I'm very proud of it. Absolutely. That's awesome, man.

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trying to coach and not necessarily have the ability to go out there and make things happen, but try and just be a coach, be a leader. What was the biggest difference in terms of leading a team in that aspect outside of just not being able to get out on the ice with the guys?

Well, listen, first of all, I loved coaching. And I had a tremendous group of older guys like my captain, Shane Doan, and my goaltender was Curtis Joseph. Oh, yeah. They were just wonderful guys. I never one time ever said, gosh, why can't you do this? Or didn't you see that? I didn't even do that with teammates. I had one teammate who always said to me, every time we come off the ice, he said, Gretchen, you didn't see me. I was wide open.

You didn't see me. I was wide open. Finally, I said, if I see you, trust me, I'm going to give you the puck. I started calling him 7-Eleven. He's always open. Always. I said, he's always open every time I come off the ice. I want you to score as badly as you want to score. So if I see you, I'll get you the puck. So I never really...

overly concerned about. I wish that guy could do that. I kind of, I loved coaching. I loved helping kids become better professional athletes and professional hockey players. I truly enjoyed it. It's, it's,

You know, I've tried everything in hockey. I was a player. I was fortunate enough to run Team Canada in 2002. We won a gold medal in Salt Lake City. It was one of the great thrills of my life. I played in the Olympics in 1998 in Nagano, Japan. Unfortunately, we didn't win, but it was such a great experience.

and staying in the Olympic Village, we had so much fun being with all the other athletes, curling, figure skating. I can only imagine, man. It was like going back to high school, right? Yeah. So my point is, if you get asked to be on the flag football team, do it. You're going to love it. Dude, I got you.

I got to find it. Even if I'm just like an assistant coach or something, I got to get in there somehow. It is the greatest thrill of being part of the Olympic Games you're ever going to have. I mean, it truly, it will be, if you get a chance to play, if they ask you to play, do not turn it down. Trust me. And stay in the village. It's overwhelming. So much fun.

That's awesome. Noted. All right. We want to start here with you growing up and your dad, because I speak for Travis and I, our father has been such a huge inspiration for us in our lives and was so impactful in us. Just having joy for sport and competing. He was there every step of the way. He was our baseball coach. He fueled it.

He was so involved in the stories of your dad and his involvement in the backyard ice rink. First of all, how did the backyard ice rink come about? Where did that even come from? Well, it's interesting because everybody thinks, and my dad built this backyard ice rink. That's the legend, yeah. That's not true. Some folks came from...

One came from Minsk, Belarus. My grandmother came from Ukraine. They met in Manitoba, Winnipeg, moved to southern Ontario. And they bought this farm in 1924. And the farm had a river that ran through the back. And at two and a half years old, I started skating on the Sprozen River.

Well, my dad would take me out there on Saturdays and Sundays when he wasn't working. And I would skate all day on Saturday and Sunday. So then as I got a little bit older, three and four, he'd take me to the park. They had these outdoor parks. And I would skate for hours. At that time, I'm not in school yet. You didn't start school until five years old or six years old. So my dad got mad one day. He was so cold that he decided, look, I'm going to build a rink in the backyard. And I can sit in the kitchen and drink my hot tea. And I can drink.

So every late November, early December, when it first started to snow, my dad would say to my mother, listen, go over to Woco, the

the store and buy me a sprinkler head and my mom would say you're an idiot if you think i'm gonna go ask for a sprinkler head in december when it's snowing they're gonna think i belong in a home right now he'd go over to get his sprinkler and he'd put it at the middle of the yard and he'd go back and forth for an hour he'd move it move it around and he'd make the ice over

six seven inches thick we'd have the best ice and i'd skate all winter on this backyard rink and it was just that's so cool out of necessity it wasn't to make me a better player or make me an nhl player but the ironic thing about it was he was the worst handyman around we know a guy

We'd have the greenest grass and the thickest, greenest grass. People would stop and say, Walter, how did you get your grass like that? What are you putting on there? And my mom would just shake her head. It just comes from freezing it in the wintertime, and you're going to – I don't know. For some reason, it works. So that's how I started, like your dad. My dad took me to every practice, took me to games, and he did the same thing. I had three sibling brothers.

He took my brothers, he took them to practice baseball. I played box across track and field.

I don't think my mom and dad ever missed. One of them was either a practice or a game 98% of the time. That's so good. One of the things you talked about, I think it was in the master class thing I saw you do about your dad was not only – you didn't just play hockey. I feel like that's unique to a lot of hockey players now. All they do is they just play one sport. But you played baseball. You played box lacrosse. You did everything. How much do you think that that –

enabled you to be a better hockey player at the end of the day? I don't think there's any question without all that, I wouldn't have been a player at the beginning. Oh, wow. The track and field helped me build my endurance. I used to be a long-distance runner. Boxer cross taught me how to avoid body checks and cross checks or roll after them. Oh, wow.

Baseball, you know, baseball was my favorite sport as a kid, actually. And you have to be such a thinking man. You have to be one step ahead of that pitch. You got to, you know, if you're playing shortstop or you're playing third base or whatever,

You got to know where you're going to throw the ball if it's hit to you. If you're in first base and your guy's bunting, you got to know when to go. So you're always thinking and anticipating in baseball. And I tell parents this all the time that all those sports helped my hockey. Now, in those days, they didn't play as much hockey in the offseason. And I feel bad for some of these kids because their parents are thinking they're getting left behind because their friend's son is skating all summer. That's not the case.

I think all these sports help you. And then when you get to be 15, 16, you say, you know what? I want to be a football player or I want to be a hockey player. Then you make that decision. Absolutely. I don't think you just throw everything away at the age of 10, 11, concentrate on one sport. I just, I'm not a big believer in that. And I feel bad for some of these parents who can't afford to have their son or daughter play all year that think that,

think they're getting left behind. Trust me, they're not getting left behind. They're going to be fine. Yeah. It feels like a lot of times these parents get caught up in the moment and it's like, no, no, we're building this thing for the future. Really just not. I mean, chances are nobody's going to play in the NHL. We're just trying to, we're just trying to build the most all around athlete and well centered or human being. Right.

Whoever's having fun doing this, yeah. My boys grew up in California. There wasn't a lot of hockey in Thousand Oaks area. But my son played baseball. I would go to practice. And, you know, you go to the games and you saw these parents. And I'd be sitting there going, oh, my gosh. Just hope that your son turns out okay. Just hope that maybe he gets a college scholarship. All right. This is one of the hotbeds of the baseball country. Oh, yeah. There's about four kids that have made Major League Baseball here. Right, right, right.

Let's not get too far into it.

I'm a professional athlete. And I know firsthand. I went through it and you guys know firsthand. It's hard to become a professional athlete. And you've got to learn to be a good person, be a good teammate. And then if you can get a college scholarship, hey, after that, everything's gravy. That's the way I look at it. Absolutely. Man, you keep mentioning not a lot of hockey out there in California. All I keep picturing is the Pro Beach Hockey League. Do you remember when this thing happened?

Man, as a kid, that was one of the coolest leagues ever. They had crazy jerseys. They had the whole arena right there on the beach. It was pretty cool. I got to admit, they did a spectacular job. I had some friends who were actually playing in that league. No way. And we found out to watch a game one day, and I said, wow, this is pretty good hockey. That's rocking, yeah. I was very impressed about the whole –

style of it, the wholesale, the game itself. I thought it was pretty cool. You know, Chris Shelley was a Hall of Famer. He didn't even ice skate to the age of 13. He grew up inline skating. Really? Yeah. That's crazy. I would tell parents, listen, financially, it's tough to be a hockey parent. At the age of eight, nine, and 10, if your son or daughter is inline skating, it's going to be fine. You're not falling behind, trust me. Oh, yeah. My

My mom said that was one of the best decisions I ever made for her was in high school instead of continuing to play hockey and her having to buy all this equipment, especially at the rate me and Jason were growing. That's right. It was like mid-season. We'd change out skates for a new size. You guys would go through two pairs of skates and wear your e-skates.

And it's not even just the price of the equipment. You got to wake up at like five in the morning to go to ice time. You're traveling. We went to Canada to go play hockey tournaments. Not many parents can foot the bill for it, but it's a tremendous sport. That's the hardest thing. I see it in Florida because we live a lot of time there. And I see it in California. These parents are so dedicated. These mothers, they don't get enough credit.

Look at Austin Matthews, his folks in Phoenix getting up before the morning and practicing and then playing in the league. Can you imagine at 11 years old?

You're in a league in Phoenix that you're playing against Detroit, Chicago, Dallas, Denver. I'm like, they're traveling more than the Phoenix Coyotes. It was crazy. I'm like, oh, my goodness. So the parents, they deserve such credit for like hanging in there and backing their sons or their daughters. And just it's incredible, really.

Our dad has always credited hockey with making both of us good athletes. Oh, there you go. Oh, yeah, 100%. He's like the leg strength, the speed of the game, all of it. He raves about it. Understanding angles and, I mean, you name it. And I will say some of the best football players at changing direction because you get used to going on edges on the ice are

Those guys are always good at changing direction on a football field too. All right. We're going to ask a bunch of questions. This is called We Got to Ask. Feel free to not answer them. Tell us to fuck off, whatever you need. All right? All right. Favorite parting with the Stanley Cup story. Which one you got? Oh, the very first one. We're in the locker room. Nobody knew what to do with the Stanley Cup because nobody had ever won it before. I was sitting there with my dad and my little –

Buddy, the stick boy, Joey, that's famous now in Canada. Hell yeah. And I said, what to do with the Stanley Cup? And he goes, you guys won it, take it. And so we took it everywhere. And now every time I see Phil, who guards the Stanley Cup, I said, we got to do that job. Yeah.

You made a living traveling around the world protecting the cup. So that's probably my favorite Stanley Cup story. That's so good. Jason actually had the cup right there where he's sitting in his living room. Yeah. Oh, cool. I was so freaking jealous, man. Lord Stanley. It's even more beautiful in person. Oh, my gosh. Did you eat or drink out of it? Oh, yeah. You always take a sip out of the Stanley Cup, right? There we go. Got to. One of the great days I had was –

Of course, times have changed. In the 80s, I called the Hall of Fame one day and I said, hey, I'm at home in my hometown. My grandmothers are coming over and my mom's doing a barbecue in the backyard. Can you bring the cup down? And they drove the Stanley Cup down. That's so good. Nobody really was around except my folks, my family. And it was actually pretty cool. That was back in the day where it was a little less crazy, right? Sure, sure. Should more sports include fighting? No. No.

All right. Fair enough. We were talking about it. Hockey is unique in that aspect where it's not going to just take over the game. It's like it's more of a, yeah, it's more of an out of respect thing and a tone setter than it is. If you add fighting in other sports, I mean, guys, it's literally just going to get turned into a. You don't need it. Somebody one time asked me, is fighting hockey real? And I said, well, if it wasn't, I'd be in more of them. Yeah.

You know, we don't need the fighting. No. You said you were a long-distance track and field runner. Is that what you said? Yeah. Well, we got this clip. Brandon, we got the clip ready? I know what you're going to do. This ain't a long-distance race. This isn't a long-distance. And you were out the gate. I'm going to let that out.

Look at the white tornado go, baby. Yeah, let's go. Yeah, baby. Give that man the football on a sweep, baby. Let's see what he can do. I'll tell you a funny story behind that. You had to, if you weren't asking me to do this, it was his charity and his thing. And I said, oh, I'm off of that stuff, but I'll come, I'll do it.

And the other five events, I had no chance. I think it was an obstacle course and whatever. And I remember I said to my dad was there, I said, geez, I better do well in this race because I'm going to come last in every other event. Yeah.

In every other event, I wasn't very good. I think there was a bike ride and an obstacle course. I can't remember, but I wasn't very good. That's awesome. That is awesome, man. Yeah, you smoked them. Well, we've got to give you a shout out. Have you ever played your game? Me and Jason played this game our entire lives. I played it, yeah. We still – we call it Wayne Brewski now. We'll play it and we'll make it a drinking game, man.

how did this how did this even come about did you like were you were you a video game guy or did it just kind of come to your table and you're like yeah let's do it crazy enough uh one of my really close friends a wonderful man who unfortunately passed away it was his company he came to me we played a lot of golf together and i said honestly i said jack i don't know a lot about this stuff

I think we won New York Times Video Game of the Year. He created such a cool game. And I remember thinking, wow, that's pretty cool. That's awesome. And my boys at the time were eight and six. They loved it. Oh, man. Every day. I'm proud that it was part of it. But look at the games today. Oh, yeah. No, it's – I mean, I feel like I'm really playing hockey. Seriously. Yeah, the graphics are insane. Yeah.

Well, we love that one. Oh, yeah, we appreciate you for it. Thank you. We got to know who your greatest of all times are in the NBA, the NFL, and the MLB. Well, the NBA is easy. 23, that was pretty easy, right? Mike, yeah. NFL. Well, I'll go with you two guys. Let's go! Let's go! My man. I'll take it. Major League Baseball. Listen.

To me, what Jackie Robinson did was incredible. Babe Ruth, how he created the full baseball world. But I'm going to pick George Brett as the greatest player I ever saw. There we go, baby. There we go. Keeping it in the MO, baby. I have a keen arm and

he was such a force and he was so good. And then in your sport, I mean, how can you go against Tom Brady with all the championships, right? You know, the great thing about sports, we sit around and we all argue and debate. We don't have all the right or wrong answers, right? Who's the greatest team? Who's the greatest individual? Who's the greatest player? We don't know. It's all opinion, right? Yeah,

You just sort of had those guys on the back that have made a difference, not only what they did, but how they've helped their community, how they help charities, how they get involved with their family, their cities. So it's hard to go against that. I'm proud of the fact that I could say that George Brad and Michael Jordan, Tom Brady,

And I got Bobby Orr and Gordie Howe in hockey. Those are the two greatest players ever to play. There we go. You beat me to it. If you were going to make a Mount Rushmore of NHL players, who would be on the Mount Rushmore? So we got Gordie Howe and Bobby Orr on it. All right. Who else is on this? Lemieux. And Marc Messier.

See, Travis, the greats always leave themselves off of their own Mount Rushmore. What are you talking about? Travis infamously put himself on his own Mount Rushmore. I didn't know it was. I take those four days any time. I always tell people, Mark Messier was the greatest player I played with. Mario was the greatest player I ever played against. And Gordie Allen, Bobby Orvin, the greatest two players ever to play our game. That's awesome.

God, that's awesome. Who owns the quote, you miss 100% of the shots you don't take? You or Michael Scott from The Office? Now I get pushy. It's my quote, not his. They go, Dad, do you ever work at The Office? I go, I don't even know what you're talking about. It's a pretty good quote.

And I looked at it and I said, oh my God, no, that's fine. I don't care. No, that's too funny. If he wants to claim it, go ahead and claim it. I think that's all we got for you, doc. Listen, doc, I love that. Um,

I really appreciate you guys. And listen, good luck to you this year. Don't let them take your jersey away from you until you're absolutely ready to quit. Make them rip it off your back. You're the best. You're the best big guy. Let me ask you though. You're the absolute best. I got to ask you one more story. So I've since been golfing with my brother. Right. And he has the greatest head cover I have ever seen in my life. Wow.

How did you let this knucklehead get this head cover? What is the story about that is the coolest thing on the planet to us. So I'll tell you this. So he was playing golf with a couple of buddies and my wife at Troubadour really hot that day. And I said, I don't want to play. And I was in watching TV or something with my buddy who lives on the course, Randy Bernard. And,

My wife texted me and said, we're coming through the hall that he lives on. Come on out and say hello. And I said, okay. So I brought out this head cover. And I brought out this head cover and I gave it to him and said, here, my son gets these made and this is mine. It's so cool too, man. It's pretty cool. But you know what pissed me off the most about the whole thing? We took this picture and everybody sent me letters and phone calls. What are you doing golfing in bare feet? Yeah.

How are you talking? I wanted to take a picture. I'm going out there to do a nice thing. You got no shoes on. I'm like, I'm not playing golf. He's just hanging, man. He was just hanging. The last one you wanted to do

playing the golf not me oh yeah once it's out there on social media man everybody's gonna come you're the best though big guy still i still got it on my on my driver today man no doubt it brings me good luck no good for you guys and keep it going have fun thank you for everything thanks my pleasure we just fucking we just had one of the coolest conversations of my life that's pretty awesome i could have kept asking him questions i'm so pissed i didn't have my fucking gretzky skates man

You have skates? You have Gretzky skates? I have Nike Gretzky skates. Yes, all white Gretzky skates. The white Tornadoes. Nike Gretzky skates. The Docks. What a fucking cool-ass nickname. That's pretty sick. I'm wearing nothing but white gloves all year. Oh, love it, love it, love it, love it. No, you're not, though. That would increase your chance of holding. Don't do that. Don't do that. You're right. I'm out of there.

that. Alrighty, that wraps up this episode of New Heights. Make sure you're subscribed on YouTube to the New Heights channel. Follow New Heights in the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to new episodes of New Heights early and ad-free right now by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. That's right. Once again, New Heights, a Wondery show produced by Wave Sports and Entertainment and brought to you by Reese's and their new PB&J Cups. Follow the show on all social media at New Heights Show with 1S. Thanks to our production and crew.

for always making us look better than what we are. And thank you again to all the 92 percenters for tuning in. Hope you guys enjoyed the interview with the great one. You guys hear that call? Yeah. Can you guys make out what she's saying?

I can't. Sounds good, though. She's saying, I'm all done pooping. That's the call for me to go wipe Elliot's ass. Do you need to come back to us? Nana just walked up there, thankfully. I'm going to start doing that at home. That's so good. I'm all done pooping! Lauren! She just goes, what? You're not going to want to answer this call. You don't want to be a part of this bit. This bit's not for you. Don't worry about it. All right.

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