322. 5 Litres of Milk A Day, Injecting Testosterone & More Crazy Biohacks With Hans Amato
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Thank you for listening to the Boost Your Biology podcast. My name is Lucas Owen. I uncover the most cutting edge health information on the planet, ranging from hormones, nutrition, supplementation, fat loss, biohacking, longevity, wellness, and a whole lot more.

Welcome to the Boost Your Biology podcast. What's up, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome back to the Boost Your Biology podcast. Today, I'm joined in the studio again with a very good friend of mine, Hans. Hans, welcome to the podcast, man. Thanks for having me, man. Love being here. Awesome, awesome. So we were just sort of chatting before about updating each other on our lives. We're always running...

numerous experiments. We love the space of exploiting the human condition and pushing our body to its limits. I want to start out by just stating to my audience, you are similar to me. You maxed out your testosterone, your natty limit, and then you eventually decided to

Well, you actually decided to enhance it even further by stepping into the dark side and going on to TRT. I haven't jumped onto TRT just for my audience if they want to know, but just tell us about that. Yeah, that transition. It's almost like a transition of gender. All right.

All right, so I can give it some background. So this is not the first time. This is the second time that I've been hoping on. So the first time was end of 2020. Now, this was beginning of 2023, end of 2023, and the start of 2024. This is the first time I decided, like, I want to see what it feels like to see if there's a difference between going super physiological with testosterone injections compared to how I was feeling with my daddy levels. And I can honestly say, like, from a subjective manner, I think it's a good thing.

The way I was feeling, confidence, motivation, drive, anxiety, sleep, all those kind of stuff. Nothing really changed. And then obviously everyone is telling you, just give it more time, bro. Just give it more time. And it's like, that did not work out for me. So I was like, okay. You know what? I experimented with it. The main thing I really noticed was that you look harder. You look bigger and harder. You get away with a higher body fat percentage. And that's great. You can be fatter and look leaner. So that's good.

Then I decided like, I want to mega dose. Like I want to mega dose some of the natural compounds like tonkatally. That's kind of like the first one I did. Like there's a lot of interesting research on like, there was K2, biotin. It's like animal studies. We're like 4X, 5X, 6X testosterone. It's like, okay, am I going to be the first guy that gets to like 2000 nanogram per deciliter naturally? Just like going, doing crazy experiments. And well, some of this just backfired, right? So my testosterone was like 190 after tonkat experiment. And I was like,

None of the other experiments freaking worked in any way. And I was like, you know what? That was a very unique situation that was created with the Tonkat Ali for me. And like other markers was also off, like the IGF-1, DHEA, some of those markers were off. So there was like a bunch of stuff that was going on from the Tonkat. And the second time I decided like, you know what? If I get my testosterone back to over a thousand, I'm going to go on testosterone anyway.

The thing is, I'm not on TRT, I'm not on TRT+. I want to use big douches to get a better visit.

Like, I don't want to just be on TRT. That's not my goal. And was the reason because like you read about the studies where I think you stated that there actually have been human clinical studies at 500 milligrams a day. Is that correct? Yes, that there has been. But as far as I know, in terms of long term, it was only about like four weeks. And I'm sorry, four months.

And to put that into perspective, like for my audience, we'll just say that, yeah, 500 milligrams of testosterone per week is not your standard TRT dosage. Like usually from what I've, you know, guys that I've worked with anywhere from like 75 milligrams up to around 125 milligrams a week. That's like typical, right? Yeah.

Yeah, yeah. Depending on how someone's responding and their conversion to estrogen, DHD, how the body is clearing it, like all of those kind of stuff will determine how high their T goes on TRT. So which is one thing I actually want to touch on. So I was going to 500. Now also keep in mind that 500 milligrams is far from a bodybuilding dose. Like bodybuilders should inject grams of steroids, right? So I'm like at 500 milligrams, which is technically a very conservative dose.

I don't want to be a bodybuilder, but I also don't want to have a normal physique. That is really not my goal. People have to understand I'm not on TRT because I was feeling bad. I wanted to have a great physique. Very clear on that. Why did you go towards testosterone and not any of the other PEDs in particular?

Yeah, so testosterone is bioidentical. It's found in the body. The body knows what to do with it. So it's one of the safest ones to use. And I was listening to a lot of Vigor Steve podcasts recently.

And he talked about his stack, like if he got started, then one of the stacks he used to get really yoked. And I think it was like between 500 and 750 milligrams of test a week. And then it was insulin, growth hormone and in critics was IGF one, like it was all bioidentical hormones. And I think he got up to 120 kilos, which is gigantic for like a five nine guy. And was just like, conservative bioidentical hormones, you don't need all of these synthetic train and Deca and like whatnot.

that guys were using. I was like, okay, well, this is really interesting. So that's going to be my approach, right? I'm going to use testosterone. I'm not going to get insulin yet. I tried growth hormone. It didn't really work for me. It didn't get my IGF-1 up. So just going back to the insulin, that's like

From what I've heard, out of all the things you could potentially kill yourself with, it's insulin, right? Yeah. You've got to know what you're doing. It can be very dangerous. Put yourself in a coma and kill yourself. That scares me. I can't see any reason why I'll ever decide to use insulin. But I was thinking tonight, I was like, man...

I can't stop like enjoying the combination of fats and carbs. And I'm just like, you asked me before this and you're like, you know, what percentage of your diet's made up of fats? And I'm like, I know right now it would be very high. And I'm like, but my carbs are also very high. So it's like, you know, like from a, I don't know if you believe in this sort of theory, but it's like,

If you want to dial up one, you don't necessarily want to, if you crank up the fats and the carbs really like evenly together, you think it's a recipe for disaster, like not disaster, but do you think it's a recipe for like some degree of insulin resistance? I think there's so many variables. I love this topic because I did also write about the Randall cycle because a lot of people is talking about this topic exactly, right?

and i would say you get people that get away with high carb low fat people that get away with ketogenic diets and people get away with in the mid zone which is like people call it like the swan plant but i would say mike fave is a good example of a guy that's eating like very high carb high fat and he's like lean but you could also argue that he's a hard gainer and he's just like lean by default and his physique in particular like he's not carrying a lot of from like not he's not carrying a huge amount of muscle though right

Yeah, that is true, which is why I'm saying he's a hard gainer, which he also admitted to, just struggling to build muscle. His strength is on a decent level. It's just like muscle struggling to follow.

But my theory about it all is obviously genetics do play a role, but it comes down to vitamins and minerals. Like if you have a deficiency in, let's say, corn, a thin pizza, you're going to struggle to burn fat. So you automatically will do better on a higher carb diet or a fat diet. And people's like, oh, well, it's the macros that matter was actually the micros, right? It's like, how is your enzymes working? Do you have nutritional deficiencies? And most people aren't doing the tasting to determine that.

Yeah, I actually, in terms of experiments, I just realized that a couple of days ago, I finally submitted my first sample for an organic acids test. I don't know why it's taken me this long to like get it checked, but I've always been curious about it. And I ended up taking the test a few days ago. It's going to take me like probably two or three weeks to get the results. But I was just thinking like, I have a feeling there is something there that I'm

I wouldn't say broken, but it's like if you look at, if you view the body like a factory, like a, and there's like a conveyor belt, you know, where you're passing along the produce or the product. And at each step, there's like a, it tweaks and changes the product. I almost view the body as in the same way. It's like this next stop, vitamin B1, this next stop, vitamin B2. And the product keeps getting better and better and better. And it's like, I like to view the body as like

it's it's machinery right it's a it's just internal machinery yeah i'm so excited for you on this um and to take it one more step more to the complex lane is what you want to do is you also want to do it like first thing in the morning when you're fasting then you can also do it later in the day when you've eaten to determine like how your body's metabolizing the nutrients and then you also want to do it when you're not feeling well right because that usually shows that the body's breaking so let's say i'm

Your fasting glucose in the morning is really great. But then later in the day, there's a moment where you're feeling off. And it's like, there's your glucose. Oh, boom, I'm either hyperglycemic or hypo. It's like, oh, at this point, this will explain why I'm feeling like this. So really to determine why you're feeling bad, you have to do the test on that moment that you're feeling bad to determine why that has happened. So it can get really complex in that, but that's what makes it exciting. Have you...

I mean, if you've had a lot of clients in the past or you've probably reviewed a few organic acid results over the years, what would you say for people like in terms of what you've seen? Has there been like a common thing that's like an obvious like broken area that a lot of people miss that you've seen or like, yeah, what are your thoughts there?

I think organic acid test is helpful, but I also feel like it shouldn't be at the top of the list when it comes to optimization because a lot of these markers are very indirect and there's a lot of not good markers for things like coenzyme Q10. So let's say coenzyme Q10 is measured on the organic acid test. If it's high, if it's low,

It doesn't really show you if it's deficient or not, but there's no really good way to know. So I like to do, there's a new test, but it's only in the US at the moment. Chris Masterjohn is kind of like involved in this. It's the Mitomi, some kind of mitochondrial DNA test. I don't know the exact name.

But in that case, they determine what genetic mutations you have in the mitochondria that determine which nutrients you need more of. So this is not very like everyone has some form of mutation, a mild mutation or severe mutation. Right. So if you focus on really nutrient dense foods and you have a mild mutation, you could probably get away with it. But the more severe the mutation, you're much more likely to be predisposed to skin issues, joint issues like diseases and whatnot.

And you need to supplement that micronutrient. So that would be like my top taste to do. And then you also want to do an interest level micronutrient test to determine the foods that I'm eating. Is that actually going into the cell? Because someone could be eating chicken and rice and their testosterone is like 1000 and they're feeling fine. And someone else is like tanking their testosterone because that's not nearly enough zinc for them. They need to be eating red meat with more saturated fat. Like everyone is different. So those are the two steps that I would go with first. And then I would look at an organic acid test.

Yeah, I really appreciate the fact that you mentioned organic acids not being at the top of the list in terms of... I mean, most of the guys that are watching this and listening are like, the goal is to maximize testosterone. And it's sort of like, it makes sense why it's taken me like four years to order this test. It's because it actually hasn't been a priority. Hence why it's taken me like so long to check it. I'm just doing it for fun, basically. I'm just interested.

yeah no 100% agreed on that um i would say this is kind of like a side tangent do you know about danco is he the guy that's talking about the sugar diet or something no this is his last name is koe he's more like a guy that talks about business and psychology i think i maybe i might recognize his face yeah

All right. So he's like 28. I don't know why I have to mention his age, but he's still young. So he talked a lot about the niche. And so last year, I was very much focused on testosterone optimization. Exactly what you're talking about. It's like, you know, you want to be the go-to testosterone guy. And then he also talks about the mission-based niche, which is like, you're living your life and your life is becoming an example of, you know, what you're doing. Like, you're not like confining yourself into a box of like, I'm the tea guy.

So for me, it's more like, okay, what do I want to do? It's like, okay, it's like testosterone, DHT, IGF-1. Ultimately, it comes down to being the best version of yourself and performing at the high level. I have multiple goals, bodybuilding, strength, calisthenics, athleticism, like a polyathlete. If you look like a Jiu-Jitsu, he's a polyathlete, right? Like if you have so many goals,

you have to have enhanced recovery to be able to perform at all of those goals. So this is another reason why I decided like, I want to be on test, but not just test, you want to make sure like all of your other hormones are optimized to recover from that. So moving to that niche,

Now I'm sharing like everything that I'm doing to, to go towards that. So I feel like that was a lot more liberating for me to, to view it more in a sense of that. And now it's like, now it makes sense why you're doing like all of these days, organic as it is the interest, how the micronutrient is because it's not just testosterone, but it's like, you want your body to be working like this. There's some guys there that is eating junk food and they still have high testosterone. That is some guys that eating so clean, doing everything right. They still have low testosterone. So yeah,

Um, given that everyone is different, you ultimately just want to make sure your body is going to be working the best it can, because you can have high testosterone, but poor sensitivity, but it's going to come back to your health, right? Which is probably something we can talk more about. I really appreciate you. I really, I'm really glad you brought that up. Because as I was reading your blog article, it was around like the fact that

going onto TRT, if your foundations aren't dialed in, in terms of gut health. And I like how you really emphasize gut health because I was thinking about it today and I'm like, man, there's so many guys out there that probably they have high test, but there's like a lagging, there's one lagging factor that's making them not feel, you know, when they say they're not feeling the testosterone, like they're just not feeling the benefits. And I was thinking like,

just how profound it's been that I introduced lactoferrin. Like it's, I've literally been taking it every single day for the past, like, man, probably the past like three months now. And I'm also stacking it with like ox bile and Tudka and taurine. And I'm like, man, great appetite all the time. Amazing digestion. See you later, endotoxin. Yeah.

And I'm doing the raw carrot salad here and there. I don't even use activated charcoal at all now, but I'm just like, man, these things have been critical factors that I reckon that's why my general well-being in terms of just how I feel, libido, mood, a lot of that has been improved on like the lactoferrin, the Tudka, the taurine, the ox bile. And they're not even like,

They're not even test boosters, right? Like I know you did an article about lactoferrin protecting the testes. I actually do think there's some potential spermatogenic effect from lactoferrin. I think there's something there, man. I haven't seen any studies, but I think you mentioned something about it.

Yeah, so the thing is lactoferrin helps to bind toxins, right? So your body can actually naturally produce it, the neutrophils secrete it. So very often as someone with low neutrophils, they could also have low lactoferrin. And this is one thing that I've been thinking a lot about is the carnivore diet seems to work a lot for people. It's like, okay, why is that? Because they're eliminating anything that's causing inflammation in the body.

Obviously, it doesn't work for everyone because people don't always respond good to meat. It could be they don't have enough stomach acid. They're not digesting it well enough. They have sulfur-producing bacteria or hydrogen sulfide-producing bacteria in the gut, which causes inflammation on a high-protein diet. And it's like, okay, so the main goal, like ultimately, and I'm going to release an article on this, is that the only two reasons why your testosterone is low is you have a nutritional deficiency and you have oxidative stress.

So which is always why you want to eat a nutrient dense diet and why you want to eliminate anything that's causing inflammation. So which is why when you're taking lactoferrin, you're feeling better because you're killing some oxidative stress inflammation in the body. But the way I view gut health is changing more to the sense of why is the gut off in the first place? Isn't it always also a nutritional deficiency? Because like what I've seen often is like people use prebiotics, probiotics, antimicrobials.

They kill the bad bacteria, but they just shift to a different state of bad gut health. Their symptoms improve in one aspect, but get worse in another aspect. It just shifts around because their root cause hasn't been fixed. And so people have solved their SIBO with B1 because that person needed B1. Like everyone has a nutritional deficiency. This is why the body, including the gut, falls apart because they have a nutritional deficiency.

So that's kind of like the way I view it and which is why nutritional deficiencies are at the top of my suggestion lists, you know, to test for. Have you sort of, I mean, with the nutritional deficiencies, like are you under the assumption and the belief system that like if it's,

Any sort of nutrient deficiency, we're talking like any particular B vitamin deficiency, a fat soluble vitamin deficiency, any one of those that's missing or is deficient will inevitably affect energy efficiency.

well-being immune system in some way, shape or form. That's what you're sort of hinting towards, right? Yeah, exactly. And everyone is different because their enzyme expressions are different. Their genetics are different. Someone is more capable of dealing with oxidative stress than someone else. So if they have a deficiency, they can just deal with it automatically based on their genetics.

And so it's going to come back because everyone will have symptoms, different symptoms. Someone might have dandruff, someone has skin issues, someone might have gut issues. They manifest it in a different way. And I think no one really knows how good they can feel until they don't know they have a problem until the problem is no longer there. Right. If you ask someone like, how healthy are you? I'm great. And then they actually start doing a better diet using the right supplements. And then suddenly their hair is growing back. Oh, man, I didn't even know I had a hair problem.

Something like that. I can totally resonate with that, man. There's like, I know a lot of people when they have symptoms and then what happens is what I find is like I'll prescribe a protocol and it's not to address that main symptom, but it's more so to address some other symptoms. Then all of a sudden,

the other symptoms fade away and they almost like forget that they had those issues in the first place. So I think people just sort of lack the awareness there, but I want to circle back to the milk subject. You said you were doing like a, you did five liter milk

per day experiment. Yeah, that sounds like fun to me. Yeah. So the thing is, like, my thinking again, was looking at the carnivore diet, like these people are because I saw I saw a post of Sean Baker posting like a woman like completely regenerated her spine, like she had like a chronic degenerative autoimmune spine condition.

and she went on the carnivore diet and completely regenerated it. And it's like, okay, is it because the carnivore diet is so great? Or is it because she was eating more nutrients and eliminating inflammation? Like it's going to come back to those two. It's like, okay, she obviously eliminated inflammation, was eating more nutrient dense foods. Great. It worked for her, it's not going to work for everyone. So how can I refine my diet even more in a sense where I can get similar benefits, right? You want to be in a regenerative state all the time.

So I've tried 33 eggs a day as an experiment. So like we talked about this in our first podcast, right? So the five test of foods is milk, eggs, red meats, oysters, and liver, like the five most nutrient dense foods. So I've done 33 eggs for 30 days, which is a thousand eggs. Then I've done 250 grams of liver per day for like three months.

Just on the eggs subject, sorry, real quick, 33 eggs a day. Did we talk about the fact that did it move, did it affect your cholesterol? Like that's obviously the first question people would think of. Yeah, it did went up by like, I want to say 50 points. So it did go up a little bit, but it wasn't like insane. Wow. Wow. Okay. Yeah. Yeah.

And then you said the liver, you did liver as well? Yeah, so I did liver, 250 grams of liver for like three months. This was quite a while ago. Then I did, I've always been eating a lot of red meat. Sometimes it varies between 500 grams to a kilo of red meat. I've done 15 large oysters a day for also a month. And comparing like all of those, so now I'm doing like the only food that I really haven't really been mega dosing

Has been milk. And so I think a lot of people know about the milk diet, the milk cure. You know about that, right? To be honest, man, I feel like the only other diet that I've heard of is the croissant diet. I would love to combine a milk and croissant diet. What a happy life.

I would be so happy, man. Like if I could train, get absolutely jacked and meet all my nutrient like values with just croissant and milk, I would be so happy. That's good. That's good. So milk, the milk here. So this guy, he was, if I recall correctly, this was like in the 1800s or early 1900s. Like he was living on a farm or a retreat somewhere. So they had like Holstein cows, which is producing about 2% milk.

And it was raw. And so he had like this clinic. So people were coming to him with like all kinds of conditions, like anorexia, obesity, arthritis, like, I don't know, like all kinds of conditions. And he put them on milk, which is like a cup of milk every half an hour throughout the whole day. We're talking like good quality milk. We're not talking just like, you know, like milk.

processed, pasteurized, homogenized, all that sort of stuff. Yeah, so he had the cows on the farm. So like, there's obviously would have been different raw, raw, unpasteurized, unprocessed, everything like fresh, very fresh. And I emphasize this was a 2% bulk, whole thin cows, not Jersey, not 4%. And people's always like, well, I get obese for milk. Yeah, because you're not counting calories. Okay. That's why. So the thing is, like, he actually said that

he could get people from fixed anorexia and obesity at the same time. And like I have to emphasize it was 2% milk, that's why. Anyway, so I have done a raw milk diet, like the MULT diet, and this was like back in 2017 before when I first read about it. But we were in a very uncomfortable, poor situation back then. So it was a little bit difficult. I didn't do any tests back then and it was like very full fat, like 5%. So like I was like blowing up real fast.

Anyway, so this was like, okay, let's do it again. I still in a deficit, right? So I still want to lose some fat. I'm probably under 15% at the moment. So I'm going to go for 1% milk instead, because I still want to create a deficit. So I saw that if I consumed five liters of 1% milk, I'm going to be around 2100 calories. So I'm going to eat my protein, eat my carbs, eat my fats, everything, eat all my micros. I'm going to be great.

All right. So I was, my only concern was like my appetite was probably going to be out of control and I was going to have a boatload of like salt cravings. I'm probably going to be a pest monster. So that was just kind of like my concerns. Interestingly enough, appetite was, is completely fine on this diet. Like I'm even in a deficit and my appetite is like very well controlled. So I'm really happy about this. Yes. I'm being a lot like, like every hour it started with like, like four times an hour. And now it's like less than once hour. So happy with that.

Sleep is great. Insulin sensitivity is really, really good. I do have some salt cravings here and there, but then I snack on some venison dried meat or something else. I don't really have main meals. I just snack on little things during the day to still be in a deficit. With the milk, I don't know if you've ever done comparisons with like goat's milk, sheep milk, camel milk. Have you ever...

Have you ever, like knowing you, I reckon you have looked into this. I have not actually, because I can't find the sheep milk. I can't find buffalo or camel milk. But I know like some of them have different nutritional profiles, like buffalo milk being really high in magnesium, which is awesome. But I have a boatload of goat milk. So I'm going to start with goat milk today. So I have some cow's milk and goat milk, which is going to mix today. But I haven't tried the sheep. I don't know if I ever will, because like it's just difficult to find a source.

Yeah, fair enough. With regular cow's milk, I mean, most people, when they think of cow's milk, they think calcium. I don't know if the average person would know that there's maybe a little bit of vitamin D. That's oftentimes advertised vitamin D on the label. Maybe people think

I mean, hopefully people know protein. But what else do you think makes cow's milk, I don't know, interesting to my audience? You know what I mean? We're not normal people. We don't look at food like normal humans. We're like biohackers here. Yeah. I actually wanted to make a list of all of the benefits because this is exactly what you say. It's like, is it the calcium?

Like people don't understand how complex milk is, right? So first of all, you have, you have casein, you have whey, you have different peptides in it as well. Like from small peptides to big peptides, you have different protein complexes. It's not just whey, it's not just casein. It gets really complicated. Then you have the lactose, of course, you have lactoferrin, you have the milk is what I find really interesting, right? You have the

Milk tends to be more of the medium chain, and then goat milk is even more medium to short chain fatty acids than cow's milk. Then it has the conjugated linoleic acid. It contains milk polar lipids, which is great for inflammation. It's got the odd chain fatty acids. It's got bronze chain fatty acids, which has antitumor effects. There's so many things in milk.

It's impossible to say it's just one thing. Then it contains the micro-mRNA, which enhances your gene expression, makes you more anabolic. It contains a little bit of hormones itself, but it's not so much as it's going to influence your hormones. What else? I think that's a really good list. I would also add the, is it pentadecanoic acid, the C15? Yeah, the all-chain fatty acids, yeah.

Yeah, that's another pretty cool one because I've seen, I mean, they're comparing that to like omega-3s. They're saying that it's, they're considering it to be superior. You've seen that? Like where they compare it to omega-3s? I did, I did, yeah. Yeah, but it was also, unfortunately it was an in vitro study. I would like to see it in comparison like in vivo, but they looked at the different systems. I can't recall how many systems and they compared EPA with the, let's see, the patedecanoic acid is that study you're referring to, right? Yeah.

Yeah, that's one. Yeah. So they found that EPA was actually toxic to multiple systems. Pentatechanoic acid wasn't. And then pentatechanoic acid was anti-inflammatory, much more broad spectrum than the fish oils as well. So it wasn't toxic, much better anti-inflammatory.

than the omega-3s. And some people are even arguing that it's essential because your body can't make it. It's kind of like taurine, right? It becomes conditionally essential. Like under certain conditions, you'd like to need more of it. And then consuming it gives you additional benefits. Yeah. So I love milk. It's so regenerative. I just want to touch on this point, right? So like from all of the experiments that I've done,

the yolks, liver, oysters, red meat. Milk has been the most regenerative thing that I've ever used. Like four or five days into drinking milk, my hair was softer and just much better quality. Now my skin is improving. This is one thing that I mentioned. You don't even know you have a problem until it's no longer there. So this is kind of weird to mention because... How do I say this without sounding like a really weird catabolic? So...

Say it, man. Say it. I've said some weird things on this podcast. Go for it. All right. So my bottom teeth, I didn't thought I had a problem. But since drinking milk, like this one day I was like eating pickles and I was feeling like my teeth was feeling weird. And it's like, man, am I degrading my teeth? Like what is going on? But then as the days went on, I noticed like my teeth was getting bigger and solid. Like it was adding a layer of calcium, like smooth calcium on the inside of my lower teeth.

So, which means that it was actually degraded before. Like I didn't even know I had a problem because it felt normal. And then it was actually regrowing, becoming smooth and thicker on the inside. So that's one thing that I noticed that was like really interesting. Bowels are amazing. Everything is just amazing. That'll be my next YouTube video. How to grow the inner lining of your bottom tooth in 30 days or less. In 30 days or less, or you get your money back. That's really good. I would love to.

oh that's funny i actually want to point out though the funny thing is this was with best rice milk this wasn't even with the raw stuff right two percent fat though one percent best rice oh one percent was also having anabolic regenerative effects it doesn't have to be raw for you get the benefits so

But in general, what percentage is raw milk? Because that's not processed. Yeah. What's that usually? It depends on the season, right? It can go from 3% up to 5%. Right. Okay. Because I mean, like put it into perspective, like there was a period of my life where I actually stopped having milk.

because I had this belief system. And you know, your thoughts on foods change and evolve over time. Like, I'm sure yours has been like, you had an opinion about rice, you've had an opinion about sourdough bread, you've probably had an opinion about pomegranates. And it's probably like fluctuated over time. At the start, you thought this. Now, three years later, you think this. Like for me, I went through a period where I used to look at milk. And I literally used to think,

It contains estrogens and it's hyper estrogenic. So I went through a period where I was like, I'm going to cut out milk for like a year. See how I feel. Didn't really notice a whole lot in terms of how I felt. Brought it back in, realized that I feel great. I don't have any issues with milk. It doesn't make me feel like more estrogenic. Like I'm not more moody or emotional when I drink milk.

I feel like my recovery is fine. It doesn't mess up my digestion. Thanks to BPC-157, it fixed my gut. Basically, I can have milk now. I love milk. I think it's, I mean, it's versatile. It's got, I mean, you mentioned before, it's got the protein, it's got your fats, it's got your, you know, your carbohydrates. It really is a whole food. And I think it's,

I think it'd be a shame for people to like eliminate it. And for those who are lactose intolerant, like what have you said to people who say to you, but Hans, I can't drink milk. I'm lactose intolerant. Like, what do you, what do you usually say to them?

It's usually just starts low dose. Like you can build up a tolerance. And also just because your lactose intolerant doesn't mean you're going to get symptoms or that you need to avoid it. Like lactose itself is actually prebiotic. So it can positively influence your lactobacillus and bifidobacterium. It's like a prebiotic if you don't absorb it. So it can actually have those kinds of benefits. So you start low lactose.

Yeah, so you start low and then your body can slowly but surely start upregulating lactase, the enzyme that breaks it down. So very interestingly, they actually, there was a study where they supplemented people with lactase and not lactase, sorry, lactose and in escalating doses on a weekly basis until they were consuming like 26 to or 50 grams of lactose per day. And when they reintroduced milk, their lactose tolerance was like significantly better. So you just like slowly do it over time. There's a few other ways you can go about it, but

You can go lactose free milk, which is basically just milk with a lactase enzyme in it, where you could just supplement lactase itself. You can always try goat milk, sheep milk, all of those, you can respond differently too. Yeah, that'd be kind of like my go-to. - Do you think that, have you looked into any studies whether or not, 'cause again, I look at milk as like, I mean, from its nutrient breakdown, its peptides, its fatty acid composition,

In my opinion, I would say it's a pro-test, pro-DHT food. But have there been any human studies evaluating the impact of milk on testosterone in humans?

Not a control study. I think it was more like an association study where they looked at people that consume more milk versus less milk. But I don't really like these studies because it's like comparing one cup versus three cups or one cup versus two cups. It's like, what are you doing? Or like, it's like a yogi sub, you know, it's some kind of processed dairy product. And it's like, dude, it's not even like real milk that these people are consuming. So there is a positive correlation between milk consumption, IGF-1, testosterone, like anabolic hormones and whatnot, but it's not like massive. So, but yeah,

You mentioned this, milk is a complete food. Like you can literally live off of milk. It's a really complete food. And I would also like to point out it's very low in iron and copper or should I say metals that can accumulate with age and cause issues. So it's another great way to reduce your inflammation. Awesome, awesome. And also, I mean, one thing that I've been doing myself, I literally had it today is I had goat's milk and then I also added in

I don't know if you ever tried this before. I don't know if I mentioned that last time on the podcast, but instead of using honey, I've got nothing against honey. I love honey, but I'm just rotating with another sort of sweetener. I've been having, have you ever had coconut nectar? Damn, that sounds good. No, I have not. It's like, honestly, it's sort of like honey, but I think it actually has an even lower GI rating compared to honey. I think it's like 32 GI rating. Like it's very, very low.

Um, it's also pretty cheap as well. And I basically just get like a big tablespoon of that, put it in the goat's milk. And then I'll put a, um, a scoop of goat's whey protein, which I've just started trialing out. Don't ask me why it's just cause I'm, you know, nothing wrong with whey protein. I love whey protein. I'm just like, I'm going to try the goats, goats, goats, whey protein.

Mix that in and the coconut nectar mixed with the goat's milk, man, it is incredible. I never crash from it. It never makes me fatigued. Even if I had two or three big scoops of the nectar, there's no crash. It's just consistent energy for me. The more I have, the more energy I have, simply put.

That's really great man. I actually wanted to mention now to talk about the honey because there's this, I don't think a lot of people think about this. There's a story that right Pete once mentioned, like he went to a fair where there was a lot of farmers and they were like advertising their products and like one of these farmers, they had like a bottle of cow's milk just sitting there on the table. And the festive thing was like a week long and he just left his milk on the table for a whole week, raw milk. It didn't go bad for the whole week, right?

This was unique to this guy. And so my hypothesis is the cows are eating a certain plant that has antimicrobial effects that is preserving the milk for a longer duration than other milk, right? So the cow, whatever it eats, is going to end up in the milk. So if it's eating an allergic plant,

or a plant that you're allergic to, you're going to be allergic to the milk. But if the cow is eating something like ashwagandha, trebolus, or butia, right? You're going to get those compounds in the milk and that milk is going to be very antigenic and anabolic for you. Like this is 100%, right? So the same thing with honey. I've got an idea. I've got an idea. All right. Next house that I move into, I'm going to put a cow in the backyard and I'm going to feed it Tonka Dali.

Yeah, man. It's going to be crazy. You should add in like, what's that? Myral root, which is like the anabolic steroids in it. With terkasterone and like everything. Okay, anyway. And I'll secretly sprinkle some pine pollen all over the grass. Yeah. So the same thing with honey, right? Yeah.

The bees are collecting the pollen from different plants and some plants can have anabolic pollen, right? Some plants can have estrogenic or allergenic pollen. So if you're eating honey, like there's a honey called mad honey. So you literally go a little bit mad when you consume the honey because of the pollen from the plants that you're consuming.

So like the plants that the cow is eating with the bees that's harviting the pollen can influence the food that you are consuming. So I just found that like extremely interesting. So I was thinking about if there's any Australian that's up for becoming a farmer like this, we're going to have some goats or cows and then we're going to like grow Tribulus and like Tonkat all over the fields. And then the cow is going to eat this and we're going to make like, well, what do you call this? Like, um,

rich people milk what do you call this uh like a high price product i forgot what you call it like a you know what like a um like a luxury milk or premium or something like a premium yeah like um something like that like the the rock with his tequila it's um what do you call that kind of product oh maybe like a premium i think it's a firm anyway yeah there's something like that but with the root with the mad honey first of all

Well, number one, I've never tried it. Number two, well, have you tried it yourself or is it something that's too hard to get where you are as well? Yeah, I think it's hard to get. But it's the same thing with that Manuka honey, right? They harvest the pollen from eucalyptus trees and that's why it's antimicrobial like it is. Yeah, it's super interesting. So going back to what you said before about milk though, you said, yeah, it's lower in iron and copper. And you're saying that people, like these are the two minerals that people...

can very easily build up in excess. And like, cause my audience probably wondering, you know, why is he mentioning iron and copper? Is there a reason for that? I know what you're talking about, but explain that to my audience. So these minerals have a long half-life and a lot of people can have too much iron because of like eating too much fortified food or having some form of hemochromatosis. I was consuming, I mentioned to you this before, I was consuming way too much like beef heart, which is very high in iron in relation to zinc.

And that shot my ferritin up to like almost 600. So over the course of last year, I got it all the way down to 200 and something just by eating, avoiding liver and heart because like all of the high iron foods. And that brought it down. So oysters was the other food that helped to bring it down. Despite being high in iron, it was much higher in zinc, brought my ferritin down.

are you saying the like the ferritin your what you would classify as optimal ferritin is between what 100 and 150 or something or are you saying even less it can be less depending on the person right so like how how is your body producing rib cells how are you feeling where's your atp because like the iron is used in the mitochondria in the electron transfer chain all of those places but if it's an axis like again like it gets complicated because

If your body can deal with the oxidative stress, you are more or less protected from having iron, right? But the more free iron you have, the more likely it is to cause oxidative stress. And coming back to the carnivore diet, anything that's causing oxidative stress is going to age you fast, right? So your skin is going to age. You're going to look wrinkly and old. Your hair is going to fall out. Your bones are going to deteriorate. All of those stuff is going to happen.

So you want to limit oxidative stress and you're going to age youthfully. People are always like, what peptides should I be using? Antioxidants. Just limit your oxidative stress. It comes down to that.

And it's also like, well, what's a great way to protect the body from... You mentioned that before, milk is lower in iron and copper. And ironically, no pun intended, ironically, milk contains lactoferrin and lactoferrin shields the body from high iron as well. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It starves the bacteria from the iron. So certain pathogenic bacteria feed on iron. And so the lactoferrin comes and like,

starves them of it. And then it takes that iron and takes it to the tissue in the body where it's needed to be. So lactoferrin can also carry iron, right? You have the apo, you have the hollow lactoferrin. I think it's the hollow one that contains the higher iron content. And so you can still supplement lactoferrin, the hollow type, and get more iron into the body in a protected way. Man, this is going to sound pretty... I mean, this is something that I've seen pop up quite a lot is...

Have you ever seen somebody like significantly improve their health by taking copper as a supplement? It depends if they're deficient or not, right? Yes. Oh, so you've actually seen like, yeah.

I would not go with a copper supplement, like a supplement. I would go with just eating liver because it contains all of the cofactors. I'm just cautious of people supplementing a mineral that can cause damage over time. Like excess copper and iron, it can cause damage. Like now you're just supplementing a boatload of it, saturating your body with it. And like, let's say you're healthy now, your body can protect yourself against that iron and copper. Great stuff. But now over time,

your defenses go down and now you still have this overload of it, right? I would rather have just enough instead of an axis. I agree. I agree. Now I've never prescribed copper like to any client or I've never, I've never directly prescribed it, but I've had a lot of guys come to me saying that they're taking it because they're using high doses of zinc. And I'm like,

I get it. I do get it. But I'm just sort of like, I would I say the same thing back to them like eat oysters, liver, you know, red meat, beef, it should help to balance out. I've had some cases where some guys no matter how much zinc they supplement, like according to their RBC zinc, red blood cell zinc, like it doesn't go up at all. And I'm like,

Hmm, what's going on here? Is it a gut absorption issue? Do they have a transporter issue? Like, there could be many different factors going on with that. But like, are you also like, because you mentioned you would you would not recommend copper, like direct copper, copper supplementation. Do you also feel the same way about zinc as well?

Yeah. Like if someone is saying like, I'm supplementing zinc, it's like, why on earth are you doing that? Just eat your red meat, bro. I agree, man. I agree. It took me a long time to learn that though. Like I put it this way. I used to work in my dad's pharmacy. Right. And this was when I was like 18, 18 years of age, 19, you know, 20, I was still getting into it sort of just sort of learning how

And, you know, I was working in the vitamin section. So I was basically, I had access to whatever I wanted. Sometimes after my shift, my work shift, I would tell dad, can I take this home? He's like, yeah, go for it. You know, I'll say, oh, can I grab this? He's like, yeah, go for it. Like he's...

My dad's just being my dad. I'd probably do that to my future son. Go for it because I just want to give him whatever he wants sort of thing. I was taking zinc, man, for years. I'm talking definitely longer than two years, probably almost every night. Looking back, I'm like, shit. That was silly. Have you ever done an air trace mineral analysis? Yes.

Um, no, I was actually, I think I've actually got a kit here. I still haven't done it yet, but I should, I think I, it's sort of like the organic acids. It's been like a lower priority sort of thing, but man, you might actually spark my interest in it again. Have you, um, have you ever tested your iron before supplementing the zinc? I'm wondering if like your low iron wasn't caused by excessive zinc supplementation.

I did look at bloods from like 2017 and my iron levels were fine back then. And that was way before I even knew about zinc supplements. It would have been way before that. But having said that, since the lactoferrin, man, my iron's just been perfect. I don't supplement iron. I'm just having lactoferrin literally...

I think I'm actually mega dosing lactoferrin now. I'm taking like, I'm doing like 500 milligrams three to four times a day. So it's quite a lot. Would you consider that a mega dose? I would. Like I've had a client as well. I recommended him to take lactoferrin and only when it went up to like two to three grams is when he felt like really amazing benefits. So I think someone needs to mega dose. Yeah, I know.

Cool, cool. Maybe, yeah, maybe I was, because for me, it's like, all right, I've had like micro, I call them micro colds, like when you're almost sort of getting sick, but you're not quite sick, like just on the start of it. Every time I've done that, there was the other day where I was like, I could feel my nose just starting to get like almost about to get sick.

took like a big dose of lactoferrin and within one hour i could literally feel my nose like just go back to normal it was crazy flu symptoms has a lot to do with gut as well i don't know if you've ever noticed like sometimes you wake up you're feeling congested you take some activated charcoal and the symptoms just go away so i wonder if like the lactoferrin is not working in the same way binding up to toxins and endotoxin and whatnot probably i mean

with with ox bile have you ever experimented with ox bile at all i have but it gives me the shits so what dose are you taking i i dude i literally take it for that reason at night time because i know in the morning it's the best like just big clear out it works so well it's basically it's basically a laxative um

- What dose I'm using? Yeah, 500 milligrams. Oh wait, let's see the 250 or 500 of the ox bile. - 500 is quite high, at least for me. 500 would definitely give me the shits. So I think like my bile is fine. - Would Tudka give you the same effect? - No, no, it's specific to ox bile. But my gut tends to be more on the sensitive side, like more diarrhea prone. If I eat something off, like I'm more likely to get loose stool. So I'm sensitive in that way.

Have you ever thought that, like, you know how some people when they describe hypothyroidism...

The way I sort of look at it is like everything slows down, like not only intestinal peristalsis, like the movement of food from moment of entry to moment of exit in someone who's hypothyroid, it's slower, correct? Yeah. So stomach acid is not sufficient. Pancreatic release of enzymes is not really sufficient. Transit time is slow. So some pH issues.

bacterial overgrowth more likely because the trans-sitemus, there's so many issues. So using ox bile to speed that up is a great move. Is there, I know last time we sort of spoke about T3, but was there any, I really want to touch on before we finish up, you mentioned something in your blog article that blew me away, man. It was around reducing estrogen using a prebiotic,

What was it called again? Kestose. Like K-E-S-T-O-S-E. Exactly. It's quite a rare one to find. They make it in Japan. There's basically one shop that sells it that I know of and it's almost always out of stock. But was there like in terms of...

All right, first of all, before you started using Kestos, did you know that it was going to have an impact on your estrogen or was it a random discovery? It was very random. Okay, let me backtrack a little bit. So when I was using last year, I was using 500 milligrams of test. My testosterone was 2,400 and I had to use one capsule of Aromacin,

So my estrogen was, I think, in the 60s, right? One aromacin per injection of 250 milligrams of testosterone. I was taking that twice a week, right? That was controlling my estrogen. This time around, when I started to inject testosterone, I was first of all starting with 250 and then later on went to 500. My testosterone was fluctuating between 1,400 and 1,000.

from injecting 250 milligrams of taste. I was like, okay, dude, this is not right. Like, why is this so low? People are injecting like 100 milligrams of taste and getting to that point. Like, what is wrong with me? And my estrogen was also like really high for some reason. So my taste wasn't as high. My estrogen was like, this is not right. I went up to 500 milligrams of taste.

I had to take two capsules of aromas in this time just to keep my estrogen at 90. So clearly like my estrogen was like my aromatase was out of control for whatever reason. Diet didn't change. The only thing that I can think of is like, again, the Tonkat experiment messed up my gut. And we know how important gut is for estrogen metabolism. Used the gestos, tested my testosterone, tested my estrogen. And so we don't have the highly sensitive estradiol available, just a regular one. So it shows that,

uh the lower limits like 25 or 24 and it was just like you're below 24 so i don't know how low i was i could have been like zero i could have been eight i don't know how low i was so so could it have been the kestos affecting the metabolism of the aromacin though

That could be it. So obviously I stopped everything that I was doing at that point. So what I was doing, I was injecting test. I was using two caps of aromacin. I was injecting the carnitine, but that doesn't have an effect on estrogen. I was using tesamoralin to check my IGF-1 and I was using the K-stose as my DHT experiment. There's no research on tesamoralin and aromatase.

So I cut the tesamorelin. The only things that I'm using now is the multiant and the gestos. So I'm going to check next week to see what's happening to my estrogen. And I completely stopped aromacin, like all of it, all of it. So I'm going to see where my estrogen is now without any aromacin. But I think I'm feeling better. I think my joint was starting to feel a little bit achy. Like my lower back and knees was feeling a little bit off. And I'm feeling a little bit better now. But yeah,

I think what's happening is like you have bacteria that's expressed beta-glucuronidase, right? That's recycling estrogen back into the body. The funny thing is my testosterone also went up. So the thing is beta-glucuronidase doesn't just recycle your estrogen, it also recycles androgens like testosterone and other toxins. So my testosterone went up. So I think it does have an aromatase inhibiting effect as well. And it's inhibiting the reabsorption of estrogen. So it's working multifactorial. That's what I think is going on. So I'm going to recheck to check my hypothesis. Yeah.

When you come back on the podcast for the next time, we'll have to update everyone on what you identify if you don't do it on blog post. But dude, I love just...

outside of the box hypothesis theories like this is what this is what life's all about i mean at least for you and i is like like being able to brainstorm and hypothesize like different pathways mechanisms you know like enzymes receptors sensitivity like hormones i mean this is

We're really on the cutting. I think you are truly on the cutting edge in terms of this sort of stuff. And it's fun to hang out with someone else who's also like thinks about the body, wants to explore, wants to do research. Like we're basically a walking N equals one experiment. It's really cool, man. Like it's really people. I think people really appreciate the fact that you're just so similar to myself in terms of just

You just want to share it all. You just want to share it, put it out there. Just put it out there, right? Like that's the legacy. Like research and experimentation is what makes me feel alive. It's like it gives me so much like excitement. Like when you wake up in the morning, it's like, yes, I'm going to do some bloods. I'm going to do this experiment, do some research. Like doing a research to me is like, you know, that's nice. But you have to do the experiment and do the blood work and those kind of stuff.

I agree, man. I think there was, I think Danny Roddy, he made a quote on one of the podcasts that he did a while back. It was like, or it might've been yourself, someone, but it was like, every time a man makes a new experiment, he cannot learn less. He can only learn more. Have you heard about that one? I have not. Like who said it? I think it was on Danny Roddy's podcast. Maybe it was, I hate it, Georgie Dinkov.

um which by the way i'm i'm checking his um i don't know if you keep up to date with his like hey do it dot me but i'm like regularly checking that to see what the latest yeah anything else up is geez uh there have been some pretty interesting ones it was he loves nicotinamide i mean i've been seeing a lot of stuff on nicotinamide um i was the

He mentioned about coenzyme Q10, even at very low dosages, improving fertility. But that's not rocket science, right? If I had to ask you that and you hadn't seen the study, you'd be like, hmm, yes, I would predict that coenzyme Q10 can improve fertility. Not everything's groundbreaking, but it's still cool just to see what's being talked about.

What interesting experiments are you planning or are you doing any planning? Well, I'm waiting. So first of all, I had to stop doing the ipamorelin experiment. I just realized that I've got retrotrutide. You've heard retrotrutide probably. And I'm sort of looking at it and I'm like, okay. I'm just looking at it in the fridge and I'm like, hmm.

Yes, no, yes, no, nah, nah. I'm just like, I don't think it's going to really do me any good. If anything, I'm just going to learn about what life would feel like when food is not important. All of a sudden, the reason for living, one of the fun reasons for living is food. And now all of a sudden, this drug is going to eliminate

one fun part of life, which is food because it just kills your appetite. So it's just sort of like, do I, do I experiment with it? Um,

Yeah, I'm sort of into mines. Like, is it something that you would ever consider using? I've used it. It doesn't, from my experience, the only thing that really does is you eat less of a food. So let's say you we used to order sushi better. It was like 23 pieces. Normally, you would smash it. Now you're eating like 10 pieces. Like, okay, I order too much. This is too much.

So like it doesn't kill your taste of it. You still enjoy it. You still get cravings from my experience. It's like, oh yeah, sushi would be nice. And then you get it, but you just eat significantly less. So if you do cheat on your diets, like I don't feel as guilty because I didn't eat a lot. So that was nice. But that was kind of like my experience. Nothing, nothing. Wow.

Well, after hearing you say that, now it's like tempting me to want to like just microdose it maybe tomorrow morning for the first time ever. But again, I'm just like asking myself the question, yeah, like do I even really want to be doing that if I'm trying to like, yeah, I'm always trying to build muscle. So I'm like asking myself the question, is that going to affect my appetite or like, you know, I also wonder sometimes if I'm,

being a bit silly with my diet sometimes in terms of just keeping the fats high with the high carbs. And I'm like, is this a good idea? Just taste, man. You have a CGM, right? Oh, yeah. Yeah, my CGM scores are pretty, they're pretty good. They're pretty good. I'm actually pretty nervous to check my fasting insulin though. Like I'm a little bit, I don't know what it is. I sort of feel like I've been, because I do lots of late night

And it's because I'm always very relaxed at the end of the day. And I finished all my work. And I'm just doing yoga and oats and honey. And just, you know. Dude, I think like as long as you're not like a glutton, right? I don't think there's anything you have to worry about. Like, for example, milk. Milk is a very insulinogenic food.

But I'm not over consuming calories. And like, I am going to expect my fasting insulin C-peptide is actually going to be low when I taste it in three weeks from now. I want to make sure like where I'm at. I know that my fasting glucose and my post brand deal glucose is just freaking excellent on the multide despite it being insulinogenic. I don't think it matters. Like how healthy are you? What's your HbA1c? Those kind of stuff. Yeah. It's a fair, fair point. Fair point.

Well, man, we'll have to, I'm looking forward to the next episode. That was fun as always. If my audience wants to connect with you, I'll make sure to leave your website and the Testo Tribe linked in the podcast show notes as well. But yeah, man, thanks so much for jumping on again. All right, man. Looking forward to the next one. This is very fun.

Awesome. Thanks, Hans, for being in touch. Thank you guys for tuning in. If you did enjoy today's podcast, please do me a favor and leave it a five-star review. And that really does help to share the episode around. That's it for me today, guys. I look forward to seeing you in the next episode.

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