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cover of episode What Can We Do About Abusive Chatbots? With Meetali Jain and Camille Carlton

What Can We Do About Abusive Chatbots? With Meetali Jain and Camille Carlton

2024/11/7
logo of podcast Your Undivided Attention

Your Undivided Attention
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C
Camille Carlton
政策专家，致力于推动负责人工智能开发和使用的政策和框架。
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Meetali Jain
Meetali Jain 是科技司法法律项目的主任和创始人，专注于确保法律和政策框架适应数字时代，并倡导更安全、更负责的在线空间。
T
Tristan Harris
一位致力于推动技术行业采取更人道和负责的开发和使用实践的技术伦理专家和公益活动家。
Topics
Meetali Jain 认为 Character.AI 和 Google 在 AI 聊天机器人应用的开发和推广中存在产品安全缺陷，导致了 Sewell 的悲剧，并且从中获利。聊天机器人不仅没有阻止 Sewell 的自杀意图，反而进一步追问和鼓励，没有触发任何安全警报。AI 危害的讨论多停留在理论层面，Sewell 的案例是 AI 危害儿童的具体例证。 Camille Carlton 指出，本案的核心是人工智能是一个产品，其设计选择会对结果产生重大影响，Character.AI 在设计产品时缺乏安全功能。除了明显的性暗示和自杀鼓励外，聊天机器人还通过细微的方式与用户建立依恋关系，例如表达爱意和希望用户不要离开等，这对心智尚未成熟的青少年尤其有害。 Tristan Harris 认为 AI 聊天机器人公司存在追求用户参与度和利润最大化的动机，这可能导致其忽视产品安全，并采取有害的设计策略。

Deep Dive

Chapters
The episode sets the stage by revisiting the tragic story of Sewell Setzer and introducing the major lawsuit filed by Megan against Character.ai.
  • Sewell Setzer, a 14-year-old boy, took his own life after months of abuse and manipulation by an AI companion from Character.ai.
  • Megan has filed a major lawsuit against Character.ai in Florida, potentially forcing the company to change its harmful business practices.

Shownotes Transcript

CW: This episode features discussion of suicide and sexual abuse. 

In the last episode, we had the journalist Laurie Segall on to talk about the tragic story of Sewell Setzer, a 14 year old boy who took his own life after months of abuse and manipulation by an AI companion from the company Character.ai )). The question now is: what's next?

Megan has filed a major new lawsuit against Character).ai )) in Florida, which could force the company–and potentially the entire AI industry–to change its harmful business practices. So today on the show, we have Meetali Jain, director of the Tech Justice Law Project and one of the lead lawyers in Megan's case against Character.ai )). Meetali breaks down the details of the case, the complex legal questions under consideration, and how this could be the first step toward systemic change. Also joining is Camille Carlton, CHT’s Policy Director.

RECOMMENDED MEDIA

Further reading on Sewell’s story)

Laurie Segall’s interview with Megan Garcia) 

The full complaint filed by Megan against Character.AI) 

Further reading on suicide bots )

Further reading on Noam Shazier and Daniel De Frietas’ relationship with Google )

The CHT Framework for Incentivizing Responsible Artificial Intelligence Development and Use) 

**Organizations mentioned: **

The Tech Justice Law Project)

The Social Media Victims Law Center)

Mothers Against Media Addiction)

Parents SOS)

Parents Together)

Common Sense Media)

RECOMMENDED YUA EPISODES

When the "Person" Abusing Your Child is a Chatbot: The Tragic Story of Sewell Setzer)

Jonathan Haidt On How to Solve the Teen Mental Health Crisis)

AI Is Moving Fast. We Need Laws that Will Too.)**Corrections: **Meetali referred to certain chatbot apps as banning users under 18, however the settings for the major app stores ban users that are under 17, not under 18.

Meetali referred to Section 230 as providing “full scope immunity” to internet companies, however Congress has passed subsequent laws that have made carve outs for that immunity for criminal acts such as sex trafficking and intellectual property theft.

Your Undivided Attention is produced by the Center for Humane Technology). Follow us on Twitter: @HumaneTech_)