GE2025: PAP's Dinesh Vasu Dash on how a pivotal turning point in his career led him to politics
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Hello everybody and welcome to this special edition of Deep Dive. Well, Steve and I, we are going to be taking turns in the next few days to get to know a little more about the new candidates. Some of them will be standing in for Singapore's general election, which is happening very soon. As a matter of fact, Prime Minister Lawrence Wong, he's announced that he's bringing on more than 30 new faces, I believe 32 new faces for the People's Action Party and this will be the largest slate in recent history.

So with voting day just around the corner, we wanted to have a chat with some of these newbies, get to know them a little bit more and find out who they really are. So in the studio with me today is Mr Dinesh Vasudesh. His last job was CEO of the Agency for Integrated Care or AIC. So on that note, very warm welcome to our podcast, Dinesh. Thank you. Thanks for having me. So just like with all our interviews, we're going to kick things off with asking you to describe yourself in three words.

Well, I'd describe myself as someone who's passionate, who's purpose-driven, and, well, who is practical in getting things done on the ground. Okay. I was reading a little bit about your personal history. You and I have something in common because my dad was a policeman, your dad's a policeman as well. Yes. And it's interesting that your family lived in the quarters, but like a lot of Singaporeans of your generation, you have done exceptionally well for yourself. Right.

Let me just get through the list. You went to JC, you did engineering, you chose engineering over law, you rose to Brigadier General in the SAF. That's quite a big deal. But you know, when people look at your resume, it looks great. I just want to know, was there a time where you were just not sure? Any twists and turns in your journey along the way? Well, there were, I think, too many twists

points of twists and turns. And I would never have imagined if you'd asked me this at different points of my life as to where I would be at where I am now. I would not have imagined wanting to stand for a political office before that to be a CEO of a statutory board prior to that to be a senior officer in the army. So things...

come in as they did. And for me personally, I kind of take things one step at a time. And I think it's a lesson to our young out there. Sometimes you want to curate your entire life, but just roll with the punches and things will be okay. So you haven't quite shared with us, what was the biggest twist in your career? Well, I'd say that the biggest twist was the pandemic.

because I was supposed to have joined the private sector at that point in time. And it so happened that there was an offer that was given to me. Was the offer too good to pass up? No, I actually had a significant pay cut in the process. And you were going into the private sector, the health sector as well? I was going to the private sector to do something that was totally different to whatever I've been doing in the past on commodities, trade, finance at that point in time. Of course, I have an MBA, so that kind of helped me somewhat.

But I had to take causes with SMU and so on just to be clear about how it works in the commodities trade finance business. But eventually what happened was I was asked to consider MOH. I remember telling the leaders then that, you know, I've already signed the forms on the other end. And the reply was, I'm sure you know what you need to do.

since it's a national crisis of sorts. Right, and you felt it was like a national duty for you to... It was. Yeah, so I thought it's only... I mean, you don't get that opportunity very often, so you might as well try that. I spoke to the ones who I signed the contract with. They said, okay, spend a year. By then, you may want to come back after that. So that's how the journey started. So lots of twists and turns. I eventually ended up in MOH, stayed there for three years, and then I moved on. So that was the journey.

So, I mean, obviously during COVID, you played a big part because you were pushing vaccination. So in that journey and obviously uncertain times, right? How would you apply what you've experienced back then to what you're doing now, which is standing for the next constituency? Yeah, so I must add that the role that I've had in my life primarily involved getting things done and making things work for people.

I guess it's the season now where we hear a lot more

but we don't quite know how are these things going to be impacting residents. We can be talking at length about whether GST should be 9% or 7% or better 0%, but where would the money be coming in from? And how do we then fund the various other programmes that we have? So I think taking a holistic view of issues might be helpful, and not only the formulation of policy, but to make the policies work for people.

You know, you've got to do a lot of tweaks and a lot of to's and fro's from whatever the ground experience is so that it works for the residents on the ground. You could have the best policy, but if poorly implemented, it means nothing to the residents on the ground. So when you were first asked, okay, so you did the COVID thing and then now you're going to be standing in the upcoming GE. Saying yes to that, is it similar to saying yes or I do to someone, to your wife, for instance? I mean, is one decision more difficult than the other?

This was probably a very difficult decision, if I were to be very frank. And it's because it's not just me, it's my family. And it's not just about doing your work quietly and making things happen quietly, but it's about being a bit more visible, being out, having podcasts, engaging residents and so forth, which would come with some practice, to be honest. It's not something that's natural in me because I tend to work quietly in the background. But it's not just me.

But that is indeed the requirements of the job. So there are certain adjustments that need to be made, not just by me, but my family as well, to be ready for something like this. So I had multiple conversations with my children, my wife particularly. And you've mentioned that your wife is quite the opposite of you. So...

What does that mean? Does it mean like she shies away from the limelight even more? No, she's the other. So she's the type who can walk to anyone and engage anyone. Oh, that's helpful. It is helpful. When you go for your walkabout, do you ask her along? Yes, she's been kind to me and she's kindly accepted to help me during the walkabouts and so on. So she, again, is rather bubbly. I tend to be a bit more quiet. She tends to be a bit more messy. I'm the neat one at home. It's kind of the...

Opposites. And so we all know that you are a fan of heavy metal. Is she the opposite? She loves classical music? Indeed. So she likes R&B. So she likes Michael Jackson. She's a number one diehard Michael Jackson fan. I would say I'm all right with Michael Jackson, but I'll leave it as that. How does it work in the car then? Who gets to choose what music to play? Yeah. So sometimes it jostles, but most of the time you're chatting with one another. So less music in the car usually. Okay.

So when you're listening to your heavy metal music, I mean, it helps you de-stress, is that right? Yes, that's right. But can you actually make policy decisions while listening to heavy metal? No, no, no, not at all. Okay, I just wanted to set that straight. Through the journey, you go through highs and lows, right? So particularly during the low points, if you had had a difficult engagement with the boss or if you have reached a certain discussion with a person who you're trying to help but somehow doesn't feel that you're helping,

Heavy metal music is very helpful to kind of unwind and to de-stress and then to realise, chill lah. To chill. So you love your heavy metal music. You sing as well? I guess so, but I hope the camera can take it lah. Do you want to belt out a few tunes? This is going to be a very interesting one, you know, because it wasn't planned lah. Why not? Let's just have a listen because I don't think you've actually sang. Nobody's heard your voice actually. Okay.

Bro, your glasses better jaga. Okay. Okay, this one is called Nothing Else Matters by Metallica. Quite an old song, so I thought... Never open myself this way. Life is ours, we live it our way. All these words I don't just say. And nothing else matters.

Better stop there. So you see, there are musicians in the PAP, right? You've got singer, I know you've got guitarist. So as a matter of fact, the Workers' Party, Harpreet Singh, because he plays a saxophone. So in a video recently, he actually mentioned that it would be a wonderful day when we have members of PAP being able to jam together with the opposition party and that would be the start of a new chapter in politics. So you think that's going to

maybe happen in the near medium term? Okay, firstly, I need to be voted in after the saga. Okay, so that's the first part. I do feel that at the end of the day, the opposition members of parliament together with those who are stepping up for the elections this time round are not bad people.

I think they do have a point of view. They believe in it very strongly. They want to step forward. And at the end of the day, ultimately, we are all Singaporeans. It's a very small country. So I don't think it's useful for us to slap labels on one another to say, I'm in this camp and you should be on the other camp and never shall the two camps meet. I think there are areas at which we can agree, we can agree to disagree. And I think that will be the Singapore of the future, which we should all be prepared to do moving forward as well.

There are fundamental differences in points of view, which I think most opposition parties and the ruling party, whichever country you look at, it would be present in any country at all, right? I guess the only difference here is that because of the strength of the PAP and the considerations that it has had with policies and the philosophies of the PAP, it's left not much room for the opposition to propose alternative structures and

per se, right? So if we take a lot of the systems that we have, CPF, HDB, etc., no one disagrees with these. But we will then start disagreeing with the ways in which these policies and establishments affect people.

So it's a rather odd journey where you're kind of almost fighting with the side effects, but not quite the main drug. Sometimes it's useful for the opposition parties to propose something radically new, put it up and let's see how it works. The perennial concern will always be that of the reserves, right? So if you say, well, you want to spend a certain part of the reserves, the PAP feels the other way. So what would be that? It's still focusing on the fact that

We do have reserves, almost like the oil wells of Singapore. So do we drain it out? Do we use it for this generation? Then what happens to our children's children and so forth? So I think having a long-term view of policies would be useful. And whenever we comment on policies, getting back to what the fundamental issue is, I think is more important as well.

So when we talk about generations looking after the next generation, but also Singapore is an ageing society and you have been in that sector. You're very passionate about caregiving, about dealing with elderly issues and all of that. And I'm just curious, you have elderly parents, right? What do you think would be some of...

the biggest concerns or things that you would like to change in order to improve the quality of life for our elderly? Okay, specifically for the elderly, first and foremost, I strongly believe that you should not typecast our elderly towards just the tail end of their lives.

People who are in their 60s, 70s, even 80s can lead very productive lives and I think we'll be a stronger society if we're able to then draw on the strengths of our seniors. Rather than to say, oh, there's a cut-off age after that, you just stay at home. That's why our retirement age has also been increased, right? Increasing. Of course, a retirement age means you could retire. It could also mean you could retire, change the tires and move on to the next role as well. You

So I think these are ways at which we can be helpful because a lot of our seniors do want to work. They don't want to be at home just to be sitting around and watching TV whole day. So some of them do want to be productive. And I think as long as we can allow for opportunities to allow them to be productive, that will be most helpful.

I do think a lot more needs to be done to caregivers. Our caregivers are the ones who are looking after the elderly, particularly those who may be less mobile, bedridden, etc. More support needs to be given to them. And most of them are in that sandwich generation, right? Because they also have kids to take care of and they've got the elderly parents to take care of. So that seems like an issue that has surfaced time and again. That's right. And the fact that families are getting smaller.

So that makes it even more pronounced that you may have one kid or two kids and then you still have your parents and your grandparents to take care of. It's a double quarter pounder with cheese. It's not just a sandwich alone. You're going to have a lot more layers of that coming on board. So we do need to find adequate ways to support, not forgetting that the family becomes the key unit.

because a lot of people would still agree that they would like the family to support them rather than to be in a kind of an uncertain environment, either in a nursing home or anywhere else. So you don't think having, say, more nursing homes or upgrading the quality of nursing homes, I mean, that would also give the elderly an option? Yes. Because not all of them want to maybe live with their children as well? So it's really depending on the conditions of the senior. So if you have multiple conditions and rather than to get care into your homes regularly,

which is far more costly, painful, intrusive, you'd rather be in a home or you'd rather be in the hospital. So it really depends on the conditions. And as we get older, I think the numbers will just keep going up. So let's just go back talking about your children. You've got three of them, am I right? That's right, yes. I'm curious to know, I mean, you have done different things across your career. What have you learnt about parenting that no amount of army training could have prepared you for?

To accept that every one of them is unique. They will not be like you. They may learn the same mistakes that you did as much as you'd want them not to learn those mistakes. And sometimes learning the mistakes themselves makes them stronger and they have their own paths. To allow them to have that wiggle room to grow, but to protect them so that they don't fall, it's a very fine balance. And that needs to be struck. And all three of them have got three very different characteristics.

So that makes it even more complicated as we go. I mean, like you have this impressive CV and children, they look up to you, I'm sure. And then they are thinking like, oh, but you know, I have to be as good or I have to achieve a certain grade in order to excel in life. So what advice do you give them? Actually, we don't give them any form of targets.

Leave them to decide what they need to do. So let's give an example. My daughter just finished her PSLE last year and everyone she spoke to last year would tell her, oh, you're primary six, PSLE coming, are you ready or not? And so on. So that already adds enough pressure to her.

And so what we said was, whatever happens, happens. No target, no need to worry. If you get to your school of your choice, that's great. If not, well, you'll have to think of what happens next. A bit like my life now. But anyone in your family actually says like, oh, daddy, just don't do this because then I don't have like a personal life anymore, right? Because not only the public scrutinizing you, they're scrutinizing your wife, they're scrutinizing your kids. So did any of them say, dad, can you just not do this?

Not really, but my two boys are kind of like, they're on their own, so they are okay. They just are keen to know what's going on, but they're quite happy to roll with whatever my choices may be. The

The youngest one asked me if I would have mental health issues if I go this way. Which is a valid question. Yeah, exactly. So it got me thinking, right? But I think her intention was to just be sure that I'm prepared and that I'm ready for all the comments that comes my way. And true enough, the very first news report of me at that time, it was a leak that I'd be leaving AIC.

And kind of a balanced comments, good and bad. But she did take out all the negative comments to read to me and have a laugh. Oh, that's helpful. To bring me back down to earth. Yeah, so that was what she did. But I did tell her, don't bother reading some of the comments. Okay. So just before we let you go, just some final thoughts about just being...

a candidate in this particular election. I mean, there is a lot of emphasis about how this world is very complex, right? I mean, it's topsy-turvy. We're going through a very uncertain geopolitical landscape. So what do you think your greatest contribution would be?

Well, firstly, if I could just expand on that point that you made, the fact is that there's a lot of pressures that we get from outside Singapore. And there are people who still believe that these pressures and whatever that we're seeing in terms of trade disputes and tariffs and all the rest of it,

may not affect us so much. Anyway, they could just slap it off another day. But the fact of the matter is we had to revise our forecast for our growth. Now, if it didn't have an impact, why would we have reduced the trade expectations for GDP growth? So obviously there is an impact.

The question then will be, now, if you know that there are these external challenges, what else can we do to kind of work together, especially past an election, to be able to then deal with the issues that are coming our way? So I see this as dark clouds forming. We do not know exactly how much the storm will be, but we know that there will definitely be rain and to make sure that we are prepared to weather the storm.

Now, what would I do? I hope to be a useful conduit, as I have during the COVID pandemic, which was a crisis of its own, to be able to add useful comments to the government, to be able to shape policy if I can, and more importantly, to bring everyone together as we weather this journey. It doesn't matter how big my umbrella is, but everyone should have their own umbrella as we go through this storm. So what is the most you felt helpful comment that you've actually made that you think have made an impact?

Well, lots during the vaccination journey where we had to make sure that it was kind of rolled out as effectively as we could. And often there'd be quite a bit of suggestions coming our way. And sometimes you need to like say, thank you, we got the message. I think we are clear what needs to happen next and then we need to respond.

Sometimes this has to be said to the higher-ups. And I think there are many ways that we can say it. You don't need to say it by banging on the table and rattling the cage all the time. But it's important to get the message across because I think our leaders are very keen to hear and listen as well. They too understand that in complexity, not a single person has the answer. There are multiple points of view and it's useful to listen to as much as you can before decisions are being made.

being made. So not specifically an example, but there were many during the pandemic that we had to go through a kind of a to and fro process just to make sure things were ironed out before they were rolled out. Because I guess sometimes people have the impression that you have to follow the rules, you have to be a yes man sometimes just because that's the way things go and we have a certain system in place. So it's something that you see, it's changing or has changed? Well,

I can't comment about what the PAP is currently because I'm not really a PAP sitting Member of Parliament yet.

But all I can say is that if the PAP, and I do believe that the PAP does take in as many comments as it can. Question is, does it portray itself as, you know, how's the balance between the discipline of the party that you want to show some degree of solidarity where everyone is singing off the common hymn sheet. And at the same time, you allow for some persons to say what they feel like saying without disrupting the whole process, right? So it's a constant balance between the two. You

You get the balance wrong, that then opens the space for the opposition because that need to highlight things and sometimes to say it in not the most varnished and the most polished way, I think it's important as well. And that would be something that if the PAP doesn't do it, well, others will do it for you.

Well, thank you so much for this conversation, Dinesh. Thank you. Thank you very much. And on that note, thank you so very much for your time listening in. I just want to do a big shout out to our team, Tiffany Ang, Junaini Johari, Joanne Chan, Crispina Robert, Alison Jenner, Sayyed Winn and Reza Rahman. Again, do make sure that you subscribe to us so you don't miss out any of the conversations. Have a good one.