GE2025: PAP's Jasmin Lau on saying 'yes' to politics but staying true to herself
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You're listening to a CNA Podcast. Hello, everybody. My name is Oteli Edwards and I want to extend a warm welcome to each and every one of you to this special election series of Deep Dive. Now, over the last few days, we have heard about candidates who are stepping into politics for the very first time. So, let's get started.

Beyond their walkabouts and all the press interviews that they have been doing, what we really want to know is who are they really? And why did they choose this path, which we all know can't be that easy. So with me in the studio today, we have Jasmine Lau and she is standing for the PAP ticket. She's 42 years old and a mother of two as well as a former civil servant. A warm welcome to our studio, Jasmine. Thank you very much, Otheli. Glad to be here. So,

First question, what we'll be doing with all our candidates is we ask them to describe themselves. It's like a job interview in three words. Just tell us what you're about. Frank, unfiltered. And actually the last word maybe is guilty. Guilt quite often gets me to do certain things that

I struggle to do, but actually that's a common theme that runs through my life. Wow. Let's start with the last word you've described yourself about guilt. So tell us right now, what do you feel guilty about? Yeah, I feel guilty about everything. The kids, not sending them to school, not picking them up, not playing the Lego with them when we get home, with the husband, not eating the meals with him, with the parents.

I'm asking them to do a whole lot of things to help with the family but there is that feeling of I'm not doing that much for them. Yeah, because the routine and you've got young kids they are two and four. Very cute, very cute.

And so these daily routines have been disrupted. How do you have that conversation with your family or with your child? Obviously, you have to prep them, right? This is a new role that you have to take on. Well, with the kids, they're so young. This will be the life they know, the only life they know going forward. The two-year-old has no idea what's going on. The four-year-old, a little bit, he will ask, why does mama have to work?

again or it's Sunday why must you go out a little bit but I don't think he fully gets it so what's your answer to them why does mummy have to work my husband and I were well he still is a public servant and when we describe our jobs to the older one we say oh we help people

And so every time he asks, we'll just say, oh, there's someone else that needs to be helped. And someone else maybe doesn't have enough food, doesn't have enough to eat. We go and help them. Like super simple terms. Because he can't process much more than that. So are they at that age, or at least with your older one, would you consider taking him on a walkabout? Well, so the first event I took him to was a family kampong carnival thing. And actually the reason I brought them was, number one, I missed them.

And number two, actually it's very hard to extricate myself once I get home. So I get home and I'm there and if I had to step out again, like the older one will cry, he will say, why do you have to go? So then I decided, why not? Everybody come along. So then my husband came, the two kids came and it works. And we're also starting to figure out what types of events we could bring the family and what types of events we don't. Because

I myself don't want to be distracted as well. At that carnival, he was just a collar bear to me all the time. Sitting on the shoulder, one arm. It's a little bit hard to interact with residents but this is the version of me that has to come out because I also can't separate myself from the kids. I think most parents know how it feels. So I want to go back to the second word you used to describe yourself which is unfiltered. So whenever somebody thinks

things of perhaps like a PAP candidate. Some people would think, oh, you're allowed to be unfiltered?

Yeah, I don't know. Some people say at some point maybe you get a phone call. But I haven't gotten a phone call yet, so I think all's good. You must be doing something right. But I think there is no other way to do this job. Like if you filtered or you pretended to be someone you're not, how long can you keep it up for? You can do it for an election campaign, put a persona out there. But if that's not really you, one year later people figure it out. Or one year later you're too tired to keep it up.

So no other way to do it except being yourself. Yeah, do you feel sometimes that you are being pigeonholed? Because people look at your resume, I mean, it is very impressive. Government scholar, overseas education, you rose up the ranks in civil service, and then obviously you had to resign to be a candidate. So people would normally think, oh, perhaps you are a rule follower, but you've just said that you're just being yourself.

But do you feel that people tend to put you in that box? I think some people do. The ones who know me would know better. But when I say some people, actually today I can't even tell. Like SM Lee said, are these real people or online trolls or bots? Because you start to see the same words being used. So the usual words they use would be, oh, parachute. Basically, this is a shoe-in. It's just another job where you get lots of money. People say these things. And then, yes, man, yes.

But actually, I don't even know. Are these like real people saying it or these are trolls that are asked to say these things? But I also see that as there are voters out there hoping or yearning to figure me out a bit more. By the way, the term parachute, I thought about this for a while. Actually, people use it way too lightly. Like, pray tell. I don't know.

I mean, you talk about like red lions during NDP. It's not that easy to be a good parachutist. If you read their history, that's 20 years of training to land safely, land accurately. So we don't use this term in a light way. Hence your very impressive CV. But back to, again, asking you to describe ourselves. First word you used was frank, right? And in some of your interviews that we have noticed, you have normal struggles, like normal people, right? Like imposter syndrome, doubt about yourself.

At what point do you feel like that and how do you overcome it? Actually, we are often asked to take on roles in the public service that you have absolutely no experience in.

When I went into the EDB role, it was to set up a team called the Singapore Global Network. And actually the job is to go out there and engage Singaporeans around the world, advocates, international leaders, people who have been in Singapore before but now have moved on to other countries. Keep them close. That's a job, right? And then the job requires you to, if you imagine, be extremely extroverted. Put yourself out there, talk, be eloquent, talk.

And that was a job. When I went into it, I said, oh my gosh, I can't do it. You said that's not you, right? That's so not me. I'm an introvert. I'm an extreme introvert. No way. So that's super, super hard to do. And...

Like you go in and then you realize you can't handle certain settings. I can't handle cocktails. This thing like you move around the tables and hi, I'm Jasmine. What do you do? Super hard. I can't do it. But you have to start doing that though. I have to do it but we figure out a way that works for us. So smaller settings, a table of eight where you can intimately share about your life. That works for me.

If it's a large dinner, then you really sit in the hotel room for an hour before that and tell yourself, I can do it, I can do it. It's just three hours. Put your best self out there. Is that how you strike yourself, Jasmine? Before any big event, what is your mantra? Do you meditate? How do you get over this? So I play sports and competitively. And all athletes have a pre-game routine.

Mine is Sit there Music in your ears Just get your mind ready Tell yourself that Don't keep feeling small You can do big things And you can if you put your heart into it So the thing is I wish I had done team sports when I was younger But I did individual sports And I think

Oh, what did you play? Oh, I was in track and field. So it's quite a lonely sport. But I've always wished, oh, you know, if I had done a bit of team sports. Tell me what I'm missing out, Jess. How transferable are those skills now? Because now you're in a different court, right? In the court of politics, for instance. So how have those skills actually helped you be good at what you do? Yeah. I'm going to talk about netball because to me, there are many team sports, but netball is a little bit unique. In netball, each player has a specific role.

The elaboration to that is even if you wanted to run to a different area of the court, if you play a role that does not allow you to run there, you can't. I play a midfield role, so I'm not even allowed to shoot. Even if I wanted to, even if I'm a great shooter, that's not my job. And so in netball, quite often, you really have to tell yourself you really can't win alone. You can be super, super good at what you do, but if your teammate has a bad day, you're not going to win.

You can't even do her job for them. And that really is real life. Like at work, we all have different roles to play. As a colleague, as a staff, as a boss, sometimes you feel like, ah, why not I do your job for you? We all go through that, right? And you've mentioned you can be quite scary as a boss as well. Yeah, yeah, I could, I could. So, I mean, these thoughts do run through my head, right? Oh, maybe I should do that for you because could you do it a little bit better?

But the netballer in me realises, no, you can't because that's not your job. You could try your best to encourage. You could cheer from the side. You could put the ball or throw it to him or her in a position that gives her a better chance to score. Put her nearer the basket. You can do a lot to help, but you can't do the last step.

And so that part of netball was fantastic. I think not just for me, but we've been playing with the same teammates for more than 20 years. And you really start to get to know each other. Like we know which players are left-handed, right-handed, where they want the ball. Some players don't like to run a certain way. All of these things you figure out and then you accept each other for each other's strengths. My teammates know, for example, that I'm great on attack.

but maybe a little bit lazy on defense, they really shout at me. They really be like, Jasmine, defend, hands up, follow. And they know that about me. I also appreciate that they understand that part of me because if nobody is there to tell you what you're not good at, then the team doesn't win. So does that mean also your boys, you're definitely putting them in team sports? I don't know. Sometimes we try and project our own aspirations onto our kids. My husband also plays basketball and then quite often we think, oh, it'd be so nice if they did too.

But we try and hold ourselves back because a lot of that is... You're just going to be disappointed if he plays a sport but it's not basketball. How would we feel, right? So we're trying to tell ourselves now, it's fine. They have to find a passion. They must have a hobby because if you didn't have...

Just something fun that you're passionate about. You just be really bored and then maybe get distracted with life. Because I was thinking like, oh, you know, you are successful in your school, in your career and all of that. And I imagine, gosh, being your kids, it would feel quite a bit of pressure trying to ace their academics because look at mum and dad.

Yeah, well, my sister is 13 years younger. So she experienced a little bit of that. My parents used to tell her, oh, look at 哥哥 and 姐姐, look at their grades, look at the schools they go to. How about you? At one point in her life, she just told my parents, nope, I'm not going to be them. I can't and I'm not going to try. And that ended the conversation.

So I think people may feel pressured. Maybe the kids will feel pressured. But I think if we groom them from young to speak their voice, let themselves be heard, then they turn out like my sister. She's doing perfectly well now. She's helping me with the election. She's a lawyer. And they find their own path. But some of that requires the parents to say...

stop imposing yourself on the kids. Yeah, and I think that's something also, I mean, the parents have a role to play, right? To make sure that your kids grow up to be well-adjusted human beings. Can I talk about something that you have also sort of mentioned about and that is your journey through IVF. Yeah. Where, I think it was in a video we saw where... Yeah, it was a public service division video. Yeah, and I think you broke down when you got some news about the embryo. Yeah, my husband thought that it was some hormonal thing going on with the IVF. Because for somebody like you, you were on such...

I would imagine that you have control over a lot of things in life, whether it's your school and your career. And you know, if you put in hard work, you're going to get the returns. But some things like in the case of an IVF, for instance, didn't quite maybe always turn out the way you want it to be. So when something is out of control like that, what are some of the experiences you've learnt? IVF is tough, not just for the female doing it.

for the husband actually also very tough. And people don't talk about that very much. People usually feel like the guy is at the side, just provide emotional support. But it's actually very tough because the guy has to follow the partner through the emotional rollercoaster. And my husband is super stable and calm. But I can imagine how difficult it could be for any couple to

So you're right, actually for the most part of my life, hard work gives me a certain outcome. And then when we learn about how IVF works, I even had thoughts like, is there a clever way to do it? Is there a better, higher chance of success way to do it? And then the doctor tells you, no. Technology is there, but whether the process works, everything is completely up in the air. And there are so many steps that...

At some point, you realise you just leave it. For us, we leave it in the hands of God. But really, you can't control it. And I think for us, that's the first time you realise don't even try to plan ahead.

I think I couldn't help myself. So every step of the way, I would be asking, so how is it? As a doctor, do you think I'll have enough eggs? Do you think? And she just had to say, just stop because you can't control it. I would already say that I'm very lucky. We did one cycle of IVF and then we had a healthy baby. The only, I would say, smaller hiccup was at the end of the,

egg retrieval process they did tell me you're overstimulated it's a term for overstimulated the hormonal levels are too extreme so even if the embryo was formed we can't implant it there's really nothing wrong at that point right you could still have an embryo you just wait another month or two but

the control freak in me just started to cry. And the nurses came over and said, why are you crying? You didn't fail. You didn't do anything wrong. But I think what they couldn't see was that I always felt that I could, like you said, control every aspect of my life. And then when at that point I realized I can't, I couldn't deal with it. But

That was life-changing and I guess from then on it helped because with kids you can't control how they turn out, you can't control what time they sleep, everything is leave it and you hope that they grow up healthy and safe and maybe that was a great learning point for me.

So just going back into that big decision, right, to be in public eye, to potentially be an office holder. Firstly, you said that you're an introvert and it takes quite a bit out of you, for instance, to meet and greet and to really open yourself up. But you have to in this position. But as a matter of fact, you rejected a few times, didn't you? Yeah, I feel pricey now that people know I rejected so many times. Yeah.

So what was it that made you say, okay, yes, I'm just going to go ahead with it, although I have to make a lot of sacrifices? This word about sacrifice is used very often by candidates from every party. Everybody says it's some sacrifice.

Actually, it's not that we as political candidates make a much bigger sacrifice than other people. There are many others out there who make sacrifices in their life to do jobs. Some do multiple jobs and they sacrifice the time away from the kids too. So I feel bad and guilty using that word because no matter what, we are still fortunate and comfortable. We live in relatively sheltered lives, even though now it's public.

There are many others who have real unseen sacrifices. So while you may frame it as a sacrifice, to me, I see it as this is responsibility. If we have been blessed with either skills, experience, intelligence, and you are asked to go and do something, it's responsibility and not so much of a sacrifice. Many people have heard maybe the more fun side of myself, the sports part,

about my family and so on. I haven't spoken that much about why or maybe what I think my purpose in politics is. And I think this could be the first time I'm sharing it, but why not, right? Why not? A lot of people say that with a fixed ruling party, all you get is stability, no change. And in fact, maybe the leadership doesn't want to change. And how I see it is quite different.

To me, I see it as certain forms of nature. Maybe a good analogy is something like a river. The river is a river. The Yellow River or Huang He 3,000 years ago, you still call it Huang He and Yellow River now.

But has the river changed significantly? If you actually go and Google, the river has changed course, I don't know, more than 20 times in the past. I will Google after this. Yeah, 3,000 years or something. It has changed, but you don't feel it. Maybe you don't see it because you don't live long enough sometimes to see it. But I actually think that what we have in the country is that kind of a river of life that changes, that meanders depending on what our people need.

Sometimes you need people to change the course of a river, to divert water because in case it floods or to divert the water to villages or towns that need it more. And so sometimes it's man-made. And that's acting my role to come in and figure out where the river needs to flow now. But it has to be something that our people are used to because sometimes

they have been living with that river for a long time. So it's not so straightforward to say, just come in, put in great change, eradicate this and that, because it's going to shake up our people's lives. And don't mess around with people's lives at the end of the day. Do I believe the river can change? Absolutely. Just like any Huang He in the past, we can help to change that river and the direction of it, the style of it. And I think that's what my purpose is now that I go into politics.

It's the style of politics, it's the concepts and philosophies that go into it, I think.

I can shape it in a slightly different way, but not in a way that causes upheaval and disrupts people's lives. So if elected, Jasmine, what is the biggest change you want to bring to that river? For me, it's a little bit more idealistic. I think the policy work, yes, we have to figure that out depending on who takes on what role. And a lot of people ask me, right, so what's that cause you want to champion all that?

Sometimes I find it quite difficult to talk about because it can come across a bit fluffy or idealistic. But I actually feel like our country needs a lot more of mutual respect. Mutual respect and reliance. And when I say respect, I also mean that during election, respect candidates from all parties. I read and I follow. Even though people tell me don't read so much about what's going on or what the trolls are saying, but...

To be honest, when I read how people troll some opposition candidates, it's hurtful. It's hurtful when you say something not nice about what jobs they come from, what experiences they have.

they get trolled for the way they speak, there's no mutual respect. And I actually think that our society needs a lot more of that. Just respect people for being brave, respect people for stepping forward, respect people for all the types of jobs that they do. And a lot of that can only happen if they see

the leaders of the country behave in a certain way where there is mutual respect, reliance, gratitude, appreciation for each other. And I think that, I mean, stepping forward into a public limelight, you really then have to carry yourself in a way that you hope generations after that look to you and say, okay, I think I kind of want to be like that as a person too. So, okay, just one last question, Jasmine. I'm just curious to know, on polling day, what music are you going to be playing?

I don't know, maybe worship songs. I am actually hoping to find some time to spend with my family. And for all parents with young kids, the music you learn or you accept that you have to listen to in the car is Paw Patrol, Left The Land, Views On The Bus. And if that is playing in my ears during polling day, that would be a great day.

A very frank and unfiltered Jasmine. Thank you so much for this interview. Thank you. It's time to wrap up this edition of A Deep Dive. All right, before we go, I want to do a big shout out to the team. A big thanks to Tiffany Ang, Jonani Johari, Joanne Chan, Crispina Robert, Alison Jenner, Saiye Win, and Reza Rahman. And wherever you are, just make sure you subscribe to us and just make sure you don't miss out any of our conversations. See you soon.