Decoding China’s diplomacy at the country’s biggest annual political event
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It's China's political season, and the two sessions are in full swing, addressing a wide array of topics, from pressing domestic issues that impact people's daily lives to pivotal matters of international relations. But for global journalists covering this key political event, one topic stands out as a focal point: the evolving relationship between China and the United States.

In this episode of Deep Dive, I'm joined by CGTN America's reporter Sean Calebs, who will share his insights from the two sessions and explore how this political event is shaping China's engagement with the world. It's Saturday, March 8th. Sean, I understand this is your third time reporting on the two sessions, and what's your impression from this trip?

Exactly. Thanks for having me first, Yongqi. I certainly appreciate it. Every time you come, you learn something else. The first time I was in such awe of the Great Hall of the People. That's a building that is so recognizable internationally. So actually getting inside of it, it was a rare opportunity.

for someone based in the United States. And so the first time, a lot was just trying to figure out what was going on. So many delegates coming through and trying to do interviews. And then the second time, a little more comfortable, which was just last year. And it was such a big year because China really...

Again, making the push toward more high innovation, high production. So it was a big news year. And this year I feel a lot more comfortable. I don't know why, but as I navigate my way through there, I've had a time to sit in on a few of the delegation meetings that are away in some of the major rooms throughout that process.

Wonderful building. So to me, it's it's it's it's it's very interesting. And the challenge is to convey the way this legislative, this political body works to an outside audience, because it can be quite confusing. And I think a lot of people think it's all done in secret behind closed doors. And so my goal is to explain, look, meetings go out throughout the year, right?

with members of these delegations meeting in communities, meeting in cities where they hear concerns and they talk about the measures that will probably be making news at two sessions. And then they, they, this CPPCC makes its recommendations and passes them on to the NPC. And then everything kind of comes out of that. But there, you know, there is

process and people's voices are heard and so that's something that I've really tried to kind of explain to people in the US. Yeah, third time is always the charm and I feel like with experiences from the past two visits now that this time you're able to report this political event with a bit more ease and this time have you got a chance to get a hold of any deputies, lawmakers because these people they are usually highly sought after during this time of the year?

You know, that's a perfect question. And the first time I went in, they said, you know, just grab some deputies. And I'm used to the way

lawmakers are in the u.s capital where they want to be on tv you know that's their moment they want to see their constituents and then to see something thousands of deputies kind of make a mad dash from the front of the hall uh inside where they you know can sit down and and kind of focus on their work so the first year i was completely caught flat-footed but now this year i was able to grab um

several and talk about some of the issues moving forward, get their take on the work report and get their take on the main items that really came out of that blueprint where the way China is going to move forward. But I have been able to talk to a few. But perhaps the most interesting was the one I didn't get to talk to. There was a giant crush of media around Dong Mingzhu. And I saw them come through and my

my cameraman and I said, let's find out what this is. And we kind of went and we couldn't get anywhere near. I mean, if there's 10 people deep all around her, she just moved like a, like a swarm of bees through the hall. And we posted that and we were able to get her people to see that. And, uh,

We talked about how consumption, internal consumption, buying large, big-ticket items is going to be very important for China moving forward. And now we're going to do a sit-down interview with her. So just because we were able to focus on just the popularity of her and

And the fact that she is really is the face of that major company Kind of shunning celebrities and letting her be the person to talk about the quality So it's going to be interesting to hear her talk about China its its innovations. It's moving forward its place on the global landscape So I'm really looking forward to that and all that came out of the fact that we were in the Great Hall that day right so coming from an American background

Of course, the discussions that concern the U.S. will stand out to you. And the Chinese Foreign Minister Wang Yi's press conference from this Friday touched on Sino-U.S. relations. So as an American journalist, what's your take from Foreign Minister Wang Yi's remarks on the relationship between China and the U.S.?

You know, it's interesting because I've been at CGTN a long time now and Wong Yi has been there throughout. And a lot of secretary of states have come and gone in the United States, but he remains the constant. And I think that his reputation internationally as a consummate diplomat and somebody who is always calm and always well-spoken, I'm always eager to hear what he says. And he answered 23 questions in just 90 minutes.

And of course, a lot of the questions on the Trump administration, on tariffs, on how these two countries are going to get along. And, you know, he obviously, in my opinion, took the high road, but also let it be known, look, China is not going to be pushed around. We have

our plan for development and we're not going to be intimidated. If you want to counter us with tariffs, we'll counter you with tariffs. I'm not saying either one of these is right or wrong. It's the way things are right now. And I tend to believe what he and other members of the Chinese government have said, that the U.S. and China have a lot more in common than they do in terms of differences. And it would be nice to see them

Work on that and he always seems to find a way to say that even in terms of the tariffs Pointing out that China has worked to stop Fentanyl from coming into the United States, but it hasn't been rewarded instead in his terms It's it's it's almost been punished by a 10% tariff when Trump took office and then another 10% added on that this past week so it rewards

Good with bad was basically what he said. And the fact that Trump and his administration have really they're kind of pursuing isolationism. That's been the argument from outside America first. The concern is if you're only focused on your country coming from Wongi yesterday when he had his news conference, then.

You have to think of everything from a global angle. And if you only focus on your country, then in these terms, the law of the jungle could come out. And that was very sobering. And I think that a lot of people in the U.S. do believe that. And I think that a lot of people...

would like to see these two nations find a way to move forward and work together. Certainly, strife is not good in the long term, not just for these two nations, but for the global economy and the geopolitical background. Right. And China now, along with Canada and Mexico, has been the target of President Trump's terror policies, which many economists largely think are not the best idea. But Trump has been

perhaps one of the most persistent U.S. presidents in trade wars and tariffs. What do you think could be the short-term and long-term impact from the China-U.S. trade war on America and its people? You know, that's a great question. And Trump has been a tariff supporter since all the way back in the 70s. He sees this as a way to

to basically tax other countries. But economists in the United States and abroad say that's just not the case. It adds price onto what you're shipping in. And the entity that either ships it or gets hit with a tear is certainly not going to absorb that cost itself. It's going to pass that cost on to consumers. And so everybody said, you know, it's a lot of people find it very difficult to

do the math and come up with a way the United States is going to generate money with tariffs. Now, Donald Trump's argument has been because China just countered with a tariff on a lot of farm products. And Trump's argument has been, well, rather than sell these farm products to China and pay a tariff, let's sell them to the U.S. But there are huge amounts of these. And the question is, there's just not enough consumers there.

to buy these items within the United States. I think there's a lot you're seeing. The United States is deeply divided, deeply divided. The Trump supporters, you know, under the MAGA, Make America Great Again, under that banner, follow him so intensely. It's hard to explain the level of support that that base has for Trump.

but a lot of people just are in the opposite court. So it's like one, one 80. They're, they're pushing back on this. You see it from lawmakers. You see it from businesses. You see it from people on the street. Prices aren't coming down. Uh,

They're concerned about inflation spiraling up. They're seeing the market begin to tank, begin to go down. That affects their 401 retirement accounts. So there's a lot of concern out there right now. And I think to a person who's

Donald Trump has not explained in depth the way this is going to play out and benefit the average person in the United States. So that's frustrating. Now, on a global scale, I mean, you're hearing it in every corner of the earth. Stop this. You know, this is this is not healthy. If you want to you know, you're hitting your closest allies with punishing tariffs. Why is this happening? And so you run the risk of Canada and Mexico, the two largest trading partners,

really driving a wedge between the United States and these border nations. And there have always been good relations with those nations. And then you go to Europe and talk about what could happen there because he's not ruled out tariffs against European nations as well. And I think you've also seen an offshoot of this because many European nations have now hit China's EVs with very high tariffs as well. And there's someone who's driven in Chinese EVs

They are amazing. I mean, they're much less expensive in the United States. And, you know, I think that a lot of people just think it's it's in the end in terms of trying to curtail climate change and reduce the carbon footprint.

No one is benefiting by these tariffs and no one again going back to what China says. No one wins in a trade war I don't I don't mean to go back to that. That's a very simple factual statement on top of trade war one other area that the US administration several administrations have been competing with China is in high tech and

And that's been brought up in the government work report by Premier Li Chen from earlier this week. And that had also highlighted China's technological innovation. And do you believe the current US administration is re-evaluating China's high-tech power, given the most recent technological breakthroughs, for example, DeepSeek?

Well, I think if they're not, then they're missing the boat because China is finding a way to move forward very rapidly and it's

leapfrogged a lot of nations and its technological advancements whether it be from space aerospace Looking at EVs looking at solar power and I think what you're talking about is the is the the very high-tech chips that the United States has stopped exporting to China under the banner of national security making that its argument and so the

The government of China has said it's a way that the United States is trying to control China's development. And it certainly isn't going to stand for that. It's going to continue to move and develop the best way that it sees forward. And when Deep Seek came out, I think it was a wake up call in a huge way to Silicon Valley and to the administration as well, because you saw

how much deep seek said it costs to produce that high and chip and how effective it is. And I've talked to a number of companies in the United States that have downloaded deep seek and they're using it within their companies right now because it does everything they needed to do. And it was done very quickly and it was done very cheaply. So you're looking now, conversely, the big company NVIDIA in the United States that really was, uh,

the golden child in terms of these high-tech chips, but they were spending billions and billions, whereas China spent a matter of millions developing DeepSeek. Now, just before DeepSeek hit the market, Donald Trump came out. He did not have Elon Musk with him, had another tech leader at the time, and they were talking about having a $100 billion measure

I think it was called to begin having infrastructure for these high tech chips because they're going to take a great deal of electricity to generate, to create. And they're talking about these little nuclear facilities that will be able to provide the power to

in a much more environmentally friendly fashion rather than fossil fuels. And literally right after that $100 billion announcement came out, DeepSeat came out with its much more cost-effective method. And it was like a slap in the face. Everybody had to kind of take a step back. And the administration said, look, we're looking at DeepSeat as something positive because if they can do it, we can do it, and that's going to be the future. But, you know, it is what it is.

Yep, high tech will definitely be one of the areas that global governments will encourage a lot of investments in.

And I'm glad that you enjoyed your ride on the Chinese electric car here in China. But I know that you've been in China for 10 times, and so you must have had plenty experiences trying out all sorts of Chinese tech products, the mobile payments, artificial intelligence, and the high-speed railway. And a lot of these tech products, they are actually...

largely integrated into the daily lives for the people here in China. And having tried these Chinese tech products, do you think there's one or several of them that are the most distinctive, different from the day-to-day living experiences back in the States? Yeah, that's a great question, Yunqi. And I will tell you, the high-speed rail,

It is amazing. And the U.S. needs that, and they have to find a way to get something like that. It's just not going to be practical to use the antiquated rail lines that the United States has had for years and years and years. It can move cargo very slowly, but you can't use those rails for high-speed rail. So you need entirely new infrastructure. So finding...

a way to cross all these land areas and create that, they're going to have to do it. I mean, every nation has high speed rail. Every nation has it. It's effective. It can reduce the strain on airports. I love China's. I mean, I would prefer prefer to go on high speed rail than fly.

getting to the airport, checking in early, fighting your way through, getting your seatbelt on. To me, it's much quicker. Just get on the train, take off, and you can work very easy. It's so smooth. So that's one thing. But I think that what I have taken away is China's trying to make it easier to open up to foreigners, to visit, to work, to study here. And to do that, they have to make it easier for someone like me to come here and live and work every day. And that I have...

I have WeChat Pay, so I don't use cash. I just do everything with my WeChat Pay. And I'm doing a story hooking my American Express up to Alipay. So that'll open up other avenues for me as well. So that's something that China is doing now.

It's had its cashless society, but when I came here several years ago, I was not able to do that. I still had to go through and either use my credit card or, heaven forbid, pull out paper money, which no one even sees anymore. And so now I'm able to use my WeChat Pay. And at first, people were like, oh, you have WeChat Pay. You could see it on the... But now everybody just expects me to have WeChat Pay.

So I think that that's been great. The EVs, I love the fact here in Beijing, you know, coming from the first time I came was 2010. And, you know, the air quality was nowhere near as good as it is now. No, it wasn't even the same ballpark.

And so the blue skies and to see so many of the vehicles on the street being EVs, not hybrids, but just EVs. And I don't know if you know or not, but the Trump administration just undid everything that the Biden administration did to try to promote electric vehicles. There's no longer the cash market.

tax break people don't get that anymore in the US and they stopped with the development of powers power charging stations and the problem is in the cities yet you know their stations you can charge you can drive around DC drive around Baltimore you can drive around other major areas but you know US is a big country in the broad areas are very rural and there's no charging stations if you're going like three or four hundred miles

It makes people think, well, I'm not going to get one because of this or that. And so it's disappointing, I think, to me as someone who really holds environmental issues very close to my heart. I have grandkids and I want them to grow up in the same kind of skies that I have right now. And I would like to see more

focus on doing away with fossil fuels and more into renewable energy. And we're just not seeing that right now. I don't know if I answered your question, but I love everything that China has to offer, whether it be the simple way I can also just order food and have it at my door in five minutes and

There's so many things that once you come here and learn, the first time it can be overwhelming. But the more you come, the more you like it. The easier it gets. And don't worry, Sean, I think you answered those questions perfectly. Sounds like the life for expats living in China has been getting easier and easier. And of course,

The last thing you brought up, the lack of infrastructure for electric cars in the States, that's perhaps the very core contradictory question for why is it difficult for the States to have its own high-speed rails? Because...

I believe American people do have a reputation of loving cars run by gasoline and petrol. And I think that's quite contradictory to having nationwide high-speed rails. So China-US relations, definitely one of the biggest topics for global journalists to cover here at the two sessions.

But I'm wondering if you have met other foreign journalists here reporting on the two sessions and if they have a different focus or angle of covering this political event.

Yes, I've talked to some of the foreign journalists and to a person all anybody wants to talk about is Trump in China That's really just just overwhelmed the landscape here but to me what has been more interesting is talking to some of my Chinese colleagues about things because We can politely debate certain issues where the US may have one take and China may have a different take and

You know, we and we listen to each other and we can accept each other's answers and we can say, huh, I didn't think of that and move forward rather than just, you know, drawing a line in the sand. I refuse to listen to you. And to me, coming here and being able to chat with.

with journalists. In fact, my producer, Claire Wan, we got into a little debate over one issue. And at the end, we said, well, that's your take. And this is my take. And then kind of moved on. But we are talking about the issues. And it's nice. And it's the way we talk about

Sometimes people's eyes glaze over when you use terms that are effective, but you've heard them a lot such as win-win or people to people Exchanges but the people to people exchanges make that's what's going to make the change when you realize you do have a lot more in common than the differences that separate you and being able to talk and find out the concerns of a Chinese family or the same concerns of an American family and

And everybody just wants the same thing, to have a comfortable, happy life and build a better world for the next generation. That's lovely. Sounds like you've enjoyed your time both covering the event and also having exchanges with fellow colleagues here in the CGTN headquarter in Beijing. And last, just very briefly, how would you summarize your reporting experience here at the two sessions in 2025?

I think that it's fascinating to me because China builds on its previous work.

And it goes all the way back to a five year plan from how many decades ago. And they have a plan and it goes in a very methodical fashion. This brick goes here, this brick goes here, this brick goes here. We need to do this, we need to do this, we need to do this. And next year, okay, we did that, so we're going to do this. So what we're seeing, I think from this year's two sessions is the remnants of last year talking about high tech productivity,

And instead of just made in China, you know, really manufactured, created in China. And you're seeing this prosperity continue to blossom as people are lifted out of poverty and

To me, that's the big takeaway, that they're able to build on everything they have done, and that's the way they're going to move forward this year. There's a lot of things that they have plans for that they can control, getting people to buy the big ticket items, improving education, finding jobs for this country's youth, and a

above all perhaps the housing concern that has just been a problem for several years now. So they have plans, they feel they can control that. What they can't control are the external forces.

to talk about that. If the United States does proceed with a punishing trade war, it could have a huge impact, not just on the United States, not just on China, but the global economy as a whole. So China is making plans how it's going to cope, if you will, with those changes. So they have things...

set in place for what they can control, for the things that are outside of their control, these external forces. They know what they can do, but they don't know how these external forces are going to play out yet. Yeah, so every time you come back, perhaps it looks a little bit different for each visit. It looks a lot different. More than a little bit.

Yeah, after COVID, I didn't come for a number of years. And when I came back, I was like, wow, where did all these buildings come from? So it's changed a lot. Yeah. So hopefully we'll speak again next year and we'll see what changes have taken place over the course of the coming year. Thank you so much for your time, Sean. It's my pleasure. I enjoyed it. Thank you so much.

In the 19-minute press conference held by China's foreign minister Wang Yi, a few key words kept popping up: cooperation, global self, stability, openness, equality, and multilateralism.

These recurring themes paint a vivid picture of the principles and priorities driving China's diplomacy in the new era. They underscore how China's foreign policy is working to bring stability and positive momentum to a world navigating profound changes and uncertainties.

That brings us to the end of this episode of Deep Dive. If you enjoyed what you just heard, don't forget to follow us on your podcast platforms. Just search for Deep Dive. You can also leave a comment to let us know what you want to learn about China and beyond. This episode is brought to you by me, Li Yunqi, and my colleagues Zhang Zhang and Qi Zhi. Special thanks to CGTN America's reporter, Sean Calebs. I'll see you in the next one.