How to solve Malaysia’s obesity crisis
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This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the UK. Hello, it's Hannah Gelbart here. Welcome to this episode of What's in the World from the BBC World Service. You might remember that back in September, the podcast went on tour to Kuala Lumpur in Malaysia. And one of the highlights of the trip for me was the food. I had some of the most unforgettable meals of my life. There was nasi lemak, roti canai, and they

And they were extra delicious because they're full of things like coconut milk, they're fried and there's lots of sugar. In fact, nearly every interview we did was over food or sugary drinks. We are a culture that loves to eat. We sort of channel love through food.

In Malay, we would say pagi siang and malam, which would mean all day long, there's always a reason to eat. And this love of food is impacting the nation's health. Malaysia now has the highest obesity rates in Southeast Asia. And by 2035, experts say that two out of every three children could be overweight.

So today we're going to delve into that. You're going to hear from a nutritionist and a fitness coach, as well as two women who he trained. And we're going to talk about the culture, the challenges and what's being done to turn things around.

First up on my culinary tour, my food adventure of Kuala Lumpur was a visit to a mamak. That's a kind of late night restaurant that serves classic Malaysian dishes. And interestingly, one of the things that the Malaysian government is talking about tackling in its fight against obesity is late night eating habits. So I sat down over a masala chai with nutritionist Fatin Keri.

Hi Fatin. Hi Hana. It's lovely to be here with you. Thank you for having me. Why are obesity rates so high here? I love this question. First, I think I would like to talk about the practice of eating out. Most of the Malaysians have busy schedules, working or even school. They don't really have a proper time to meal prep at home.

the best decision is for them to just go outside and buy food that they want. That's the first thing. And then second, the price of the food that they are getting. Most of the places that is accessible and affordable for everyone is dining out rather than preparing food at

Another example, in Malaysia we don't instil the nutrition education from young. We don't have nutritionists at schools. So people are lacking of awareness when it comes to nutrition. What about the religious and cultural practices? How does that change people's diets?

We have a major culture here as in the race, Malay, Indian and Chinese. And for the top rank in Malaysia that is obese is from Indian. So we can see the Indian cuisine is full of santan or we call it coconut milk. So coconut milk is high in saturated fats. So it contributes to the obesity as well.

fats and oils are the top contributors for Malaysia because Malaysia consume the most highest in saturated fats without us knowing actually. I think not many Malaysians know that they are the highest, the winner of consumers for saturated fats. In the world? This one is compared to the Asia countries. Another fun fact, 95% of Malaysians is actually not consuming fruits and vegetables enough.

It's also sugar, isn't it? I mean, Malaysians consume about 40 kilos of sugar every year, which is more than double what the World Health Organization recommends. What are some of the health risks associated with being overweight? So we can tell that half of the Malaysians are obese and also overweight. There is very serious issue, big issue, because one,

one to third of the Malaysians also have hypertension and it may lead to chronic heart disease. That's high blood pressure, right? Yes, correct. We may not know how the obesity and overweight could lead us in the future because people are not really aware about this disease if they don't really have a family history having this kind of disease. Fatin, thank you so much for talking me through all of this. Thank you for having me, Hannah. I'm very honoured.

I've come to another cafe to meet health and fitness coach Kevin Zari. Hi. Hi. So tell me a little bit about exercise culture here in Malaysia. Culture of exercise in Malaysia is challenging.

Urban development in Malaysia or Kuala Lumpur is terrible in my opinion. It's not a very walkable city whatsoever. So a lot of people rely on their cars to get from A to B. The whole idea of growing up in an active environment unfortunately doesn't exist. Even in schools, sports is downplayed. Everything is driven to academics and exams. Sports clubs in schools, in my opinion, are not functioning the way they should.

So a lot of children in Malaysia, they grow up looking at sports or being active as something that they want to do.

but not quite having been given the opportunities and then they bring those habits into adulthood which are then hard to kill. As a health coach how do you help people who come to you with weight issues and health issues? The first thing we always do in our programs is to manage expectations because everybody comes in with really out of this world expectations so the first

thing we always emphasize is understand nutrition understand active lifestyle because for many people when they join a program the idea is no sugar no carbs exercise every day no sweet drinks so

Extremes always lead to failure in the long term. Success is all about the long journey. What are the practical steps that you encourage or what kind of tips could you offer to people listening to this?

Many. So the first thing we have in our program called You vs. You, which means, you know, my needs, your needs are different. My lifestyle is different. My goals for fitness are different if you're a housewife or single. So it's always you versus you because social media always sort of drives you to look at what everybody else is doing. Then we have a saying called, Okay.

Which means it's up to me, it's up to you. Again, culturally we are a country that has a hard time to say no to someone who is a figure of authority, whether it's a grandma or a teacher or a doctor. So we tend to follow versus taking ownership. And lastly...

enjoy the journey there will be ups and downs it's not going to be blue skies and rainbow all the way that's why it's life if it was easy you won't appreciate it so I appreciate the opportunity for you perhaps to do something worth fighting for which is yourself Kevin thank you so much for speaking to us thank you so much appreciate it now you're going to hear from two women about their weight loss journeys

My name is Hurun Ain, Mdm Abdul Malik. Or you can call me as Ain. I'm 35. I'm only a housewife, but I also do brownies homebaker at home. So that's one of the challenges because I always bake. My name is Norsha Fiza Binti Zulkifli, or you can call me Lana. I'm 34 years old. I'm a working mother. Lana, tell me a bit about why you wanted to lose weight in the first place. Actually, I...

To be honest with you, I don't know how to begin. The turning point really during the COVID pandemic, you know Malaysia is one of the countries that imposed lockdown. So most of us, we are forced to work from home. You know, by working from home means you have access to premixed coffee as well as snacking and so on. So that was the point where I gained so much without realising. Someone who

who are with a genuine care come to me and say I should take a better care of myself. That was the point when I think that sort of changed my lifestyle a little bit. In 2022, I started to be active. I ran and I cycled and I sort of continued from that on.

Can I ask how much you weighed before you went on this journey and how much you weighed now if that's not too much of a personal question? Absolutely. I can share with you because it is good news. Before I joined, I weighed 64 kilos.

That is not an ideal weight for my height. I am 154cm and I joined the program since January and now like eight months on, I'm happy to share that I'm 10kg lighter now.

How has this problem changed in your lifetime? How do you remember it changing? I think right now the generation is really different. When I was young, I still remember my grandparents would say, you have to eat a lot so that you grow healthier. You have to, you know, like... I still remember, like...

you know having my auntie putting food in my mouth it's like a whole plate full of rice and you know and other condiments and so on so yeah so the culture from before is that you have to eat a lot I want to bring an iron now if that's okay tell me a bit about your weight loss journey okay my weight loss journey has been forever because since I was a baby I'm a

kind of big size baby and also when I'm growing up I think I never been too skinny in my life

So since I was like grade four like that, I will be trying to get some diet but also of course with less knowledge. So I just do crash diet because I think I'm like bigger than anyone my size. As you know I'm housewife so I don't get to go anywhere less exercise but more food. So I just eat it and of course I'm a big eater also.

Sometimes I see pictures of me and I'm like, oh, how big I am. Is this me? So that's why I search for a group because I know I cannot do this alone. The government is also trying to tackle obesity. It's declared a war on sugar and we have found from our time here that there is sugar in everything. Every drink, every food is just full of sugar and hidden fats.

The government's also talking about closing, taking the licenses away from 24-hour eateries and mamak so that people don't eat as late at night. Do you think these kinds of initiatives will work and will help people to lose weight in the country? Personally, I think it is a good initiative by the government because I think then it will help my daughters to stay away from sugar as well. Anything sugary is

so accessible but I would say initiatives alone you know just campaign alone is not enough. I think it's a good initiative because some people have to drink like sugary drink every day. I'm okay with only plain water but my problem is with sugar in food.

But I still gain weight. So I think what's my problem? I don't eat, I don't drink cordial, I don't drink so much of sugary drinks, but I still gain weight. So it comes from the food. Obesity here has been called a health crisis. It's putting pressure on the health services because of course it affects people's bodies. There are increasing cases of diabetes, hypertension.

What else do you think that the government should be doing to try to reduce obesity in the population here? I think maybe...

Because our culture is food. So it's hard to tell, don't eat this food anymore. You have to stop. I saw some initiatives that tell us, instead of you fry this food, why don't you boil or why don't you steam? There's an initiative like that. Much more initiative that government can do. We can try telling, maybe not stop,

But maybe you can still eat what you love, but maybe...

in control, in moderation. Lana, what do you think the government should be doing? I think maybe they should be looking at the programme from a holistic point of view. Because when we talk about obesity, it relates so much with overeating. So because if you want to lose weight, then you have to manage your food.

If you want to achieve something else like other general health or well-being, then it will be through exercise. So I think it relates a lot to how government should do in

in sort of delivering this message to the people, whether it is at school level or whether it is corporate or whether it is at a national level. It's not only tackling just the exercise part, but it is overall.

You want to exercise, you want to manage your diet, you have to be happy at the same time. So you have to make people to feel happy in their journey so that the journey will become seamless for you. Lana, Ayan, thank you so much for talking so openly to me about your personal journeys. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you also for having us here.

As you heard from our guest today, Malaysians love their cuisine, even if they admit that it's not the best for them. And what's clear is that the solutions are about more than just individual effort and self-control. What's needed is a collective shift in Malaysia's approach to food, health and wellness to build a balanced and sustainable way of living. And until I get back to Kuala Lumpur, I'm still going to be dreaming of my next chicken rendang.

Thank you for listening to today's episode of What In The World from the BBC World Service. I'm Hannah Gelbart and we'll be back with another episode soon. See you then. Yoga is more than just exercise. It's the spiritual practice that millions swear by.

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