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Hello, I'm Robin Ince. And I'm Brian Cox. And we would like to tell you about the new series of The Infinite Monkey Cage. We're going to have a planet off. Jupiter versus Saturn! It's very well done that, because in the script it does say wrestling voice. After all of that, it's going to kind of chill out a bit and talk about ice. And also in this series, we're discussing history of music, recording with Brian Eno, and looking at nature's shapes. So listen wherever you get your podcasts.
On Sunday night, hundreds of people gathered at Pulse nightclub in Cotcheny, North Macedonia, to watch the popular hip-hop duo DNK perform. But what was meant to be a night of music and fun quickly turned into a tragedy. Fireworks on stage set the ceiling alight. The flames swiftly tore through the venue, killing at least 59 people and injuring more than 150 others.
And as more details emerge, it's clear this wasn't just an accident. It was a catastrophe waiting to happen. Pulse was an improvised venue inside a former carpet warehouse. It was operating without a licence. The back exit was locked, leaving only one way out. Now, protests have erupted across the country as people demand answers. How was the club allowed to open? Who should be held accountable?
So today we're going to take a closer look at what happened as we try to get answers to some of those questions. I'm Hannah Gelbart and this is What In The World from the BBC World Service.
North Macedonia is a small country in southeastern Europe. It borders Greece to the south, Bulgaria to the east and Serbia to the north. And here to tell us more about what happened at Pulse and the investigation into it is Saska Kvetovska, who is an investigative journalist in North Macedonia. Hi, Saska.
Hi. As a starting point, would you be able to explain what caused the fire? Well, according to the official initial reports from the police and from the prosecutor, the fire was caused by a use of pyrotechnical materials in the stage performance of the band performing in the club. And this was not the first time they were using pyrotechnical materials. They were doing it with
other performance as well. So it was kind of a thing for the club. When you say pyrotechnics, do you mean like fireworks, flares? Yes, yes. So initially, this is how the fire started. The roof catch the fire and then it spread really, really quickly due to the lack of standard materials that are supposed to be used in such facilities.
And all of this happened during a concert from the group DNK. The DNK or meaning in English DNA. Tell me a bit more about them. Well, DNA, they're a pop hip hop band and they have been performing for more than 20 years. But their songs continue to be very, very popular among young people, emergency and even alpha audience.
What do we know about the victims? We know that there were more than 500 people in the club. 59 are dead, 155 are injured, while most of the injured and dead are young people between 14 and 25 years old. The people who are older than this are like less than 10% and they're mostly staff. And some of the band members as well? Three members of the band are dead. The lead singer is in the hospital.
currently in artificial induced coma so we don't know for sure whether he will survive. As you say there are more than 150 people in hospital what kind of injuries are they being treated for?
severe burning injuries and excessive problems with their lungs due to the inhalation of not just smoke, but also this toxic sponge material that was basically burning. And it's very, very dangerous. So many of them are struggling to breathe and are in induced coma, most of them.
Macedonia is currently without its hospital, burn treatment center, which has been under delayed renovation for years. So the situation is there. Our healthcare system has been overwhelmed even without such accidents. So the most critical patients now are out of the country. Countries in the region and Europe are taking care of the critical burn patients now.
So there are patients in Athens, in Belgrade, in Turkey, Germany. I want to pause for a moment so you can hear from a young woman named Maria Tasev who survived the fire.
The fire broke out. Everyone started screaming and shouting, get out, get out. But unfortunately, there was only one exit and everyone started pushing each other. So I headed for the exit. I don't know how, but I ended up on the ground. I couldn't get up. And then at that moment, people started stomping on me. I don't know how, but I managed to get out somehow. I'm fine now, but there are many dead. It's terrible.
Back to you, Saskia. There is an investigation into what happened and around 20 people have been arrested. What has the investigation found so far?
So far, 20 people have been arrested, including security guards, guards club employees, the owner, officials from the Ministry of Economy, as well as the former Minister of Economy, Kresnik Bakteshi. The investigation has been led by nine prosecutors. So far, it has been focused on the people who were tasked to oversee the licenses and standards that should be implemented in such facilities.
But there is a wide anger spread that other institutions, like the police, for example, are not part of the investigation. I mean, this club has been working since 2012. The standards there hasn't been better prior to this accident. So basically, everybody pretended that there is nothing wrong there. They were able to get their licenses. But true to be told, this is not the only club operating like this. A lot of inspections were announced. Many clubs are not even opening anymore.
So we're going to see what is going to happen, whether this would lead towards a little bit more regulated nightlife. This club, Pulse, was in a former carpet factory, as you say, one of many so-called improvised nightclubs in North Macedonia with many young people as young as 14. Why were there so many underaged people in the club?
In Macedonia, it is very rare that anybody would ask your ID if you go to a club. Also, there is this another thing that people in small places, they don't have the opportunities for a very rich cultural life. So people from 14 to 54 will usually go out in the same place.
due to lack of opportunities for fun. Macedonia doesn't even invest a lot in providing any kind of experiences for young people. There are no yacht clubs, there is no cinema. People just want to have fun where they can have it and this was the only place there. For context, Kochani is a very small town. It just has 25,000 people.
people. I want to talk about some of the things that went wrong with the venue itself. You mentioned that the ceiling was made of a highly flammable material. There were also issues with the emergency exits. Okay, there was only one exit, which was also the entrance. A club of that size should have at least three exits. They didn't have and unfortunately, that's not the only club in Macedonia without exit. I mean, Skopje, there are like three to four in the capital city that basically maintain the standards.
So it's not surprising that they didn't have exits, just like it's not surprising that there were never any kind of controls.
Macedonia is a severely corrupted country. They didn't have anything. No fire extinguishers, no sprinklers. No, no, nothing. No, nothing. So basically the investigation was focused just on those who were supposed to be seeing these things and they didn't and they didn't react. And this is what we know so far. The interior minister said that the people who have been arrested will be questioned. And he also added that there are grounds for suspicion that there is bribery and corruption linked to the fire.
How have the authorities responded to this tragedy? What has the president said? The president, Gordana Seljanovska-Davkova, she literally said, this is something that must have been anticipated in advance because it is not the first time we have faced something like this. This is a quote from the president and this is how the people feel. That's why we have this protest. People are devastated and angry. There are protests every day. Justice is demanded and corruption is demanded to be dealt with.
Citizens are aware that these were accidents that could have been prevented. They don't trust that the prosecution and the police and everybody in charge will actually do justice for the victims. Grieving parents have been very open about their anger over the issues that you raised there. I want to play two clips now. These are two parents speaking outside a local hospital where many of the victims were taken for treatment.
Why is the mayor not here? Why didn't the mayor send an inspection to check up on this club? I only had one child, one, only one, and they took it away from me. Saskia, have you been at the protests? What are they like? The protests are very emotional and you can feel the anger that people are feeling.
Although the prosecution and the police really reacted fast and nobody was even expecting that maybe high-level officials would be arrested, people don't believe that justice will be truly delivered.
but we are witnessing now and I think it has a little to do with what is happening in Serbia. Determined civil mass cry for change and justice. You can feel that people always thought that it's not possible to break the walls of impunity in Macedonia and in the Balkans that were protecting the guilty for decades. But now with this tragedy, the feelings have changed.
People are very, very angry. As a Macedonian, as somebody who has been investigating and reporting on so many accidents, I can say that this time might be different.
This time maybe they will be heard. You mentioned Serbia. I imagine you're referring to the railway station who's collapsed in November. Exactly. Mass protests across the country since then, mainly started and led by Gen Z, by students. That is something that we have talked about in another episode of the podcast. And of course, Serbia is very, very close neighbours with North Macedonia.
Do you think this incident is encouraging people to speak out against corruption more intensely than in the past? Absolutely more intensely than in the past. So I would say that it's a combination of those two, the tragic loss of so many young people and the inspiration that the Serbian youth is bringing here. Saskia, thank you so much for joining us on the podcast. Okay, thank you guys.
Before we go, I want to play you one final voice note. This comes from Vasil Garvanliev, who is a Macedonian singer and songwriter, and he hopes that this tragedy will lead to meaningful change. My heart goes out to all the people affected by this preventable tragedy. I'm still in shock and disbelief. To see how we all come together is unbelievable. Yes, protests are going on today.
the sad thing for me is as a musician, I knew the artists on stage. All of them have passed away with the exception of one who was also in critical condition. One of mine was a very dear friend. And it just hits that much closer to home. You know, you read all these messages. This is not the first time this has happened. Everybody is sharing their stories of how many people they've lost.
The beautiful thing about the Balkans is, you know, many jokes, people always say, oh, we're at each other's throats. We do this, we do that. Yes, we speak different languages, have different cultures, faiths. We love the same. We cry the same. And it has been amazing to see all the messages. All the injured, critically injured kiddos have been sent to neighboring countries because our hospitals in Macedonia cannot keep up.
to see us come together as one to offer food, stay, whatever it is. So I really do hope that this shock wakes everybody up. This is an ongoing investigation. You can find the latest updates on this story on the BBC News website. Thank you for joining us for today's episode. I'm Hannah Gelbart and you've been listening to What In The World from the BBC World Service.
Hello, I'm Robin Ince. And I'm Brian Cox. And we would like to tell you about the new series of The Infinite Monkey Cage. We're going to have a planet off. Jupiter versus Saturn! It's very well done that, because in the script it does say wrestling voice. After all of that, it's going to kind of chill out a bit and talk about ice. And also in this series, we're discussing history of music, recording with Brian Eno, and looking at nature's shapes. So listen wherever you get your podcasts.