Shownotes Transcript
You may have heard of the International Criminal Court. It's been going for about 20 years and it's meant to hold presidents, prime ministers and army leaders to account if they commit atrocities. That includes genocide, crimes against humanity and war crimes. The court, which is based in the Dutch city The Hague, can issue arrest warrants. But it's come under fire since this.
The International Criminal Court issues arrest warrants for Israel's Prime Minister, its former defence minister, as well as a Hamas military commander who Israel says it killed in July. Mr Netanyahu called the ICC's move anti-Israel and said it would not prevent...
him from continuing to defend his country. And then this. President Trump has signed an executive order sanctioning the International Criminal Court. He's accused it of improperly targeting the US and its ally Israel. The ICC has 125 members, but Hungary has said it's pulling its membership. It made the announcement during a visit from Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu last week.
So today we're going to explain how the ICC works and what challenges it faces. I'm Hannah Gelbart and this is What in the World from the BBC World Service. Let's find out more about this now from Anna Holligan, a BBC correspondent who's based in the Netherlands. Hi Anna, you're actually outside the International Criminal Court as we speak. What's it like?
I am indeed. It's a beautiful sunny day. In fact, what I've noticed over the last few weeks is that it's become a kind of tourist attraction because this is a kind of symbol now of international justice, this building. And what does the ICC actually do?
So the whole idea of the ICC is that no one in the world, no matter how powerful or influential, is above the law. So the ICC exists to deal with the most serious crimes, genocide, war crimes, crimes against humanity and the crime of aggression, when national courts, countries are unable or unwilling to do this job themselves and decide.
try to deter future atrocities and bring some form of justice to victims all over the world. What kind of powers does it have when it comes to dealing with some of the crimes that you've been talking about? So it has the power to investigate, powers of prosecution. It can issue arrest warrants. It can hold trials. And it can send people who've been found guilty to jail, so war criminals. It can also...
to some extent, offer restorative justice. So there have been cases recently where the court has been able to offer compensation to some of the survivors. That can be in the form of things like education or memorials, that type of thing. But there is a big but here. The ICC doesn't actually have its own police force. It doesn't have an army or anything like that. So
It's totally dependent on states to cooperate or enforce the arrest warrants when they're issued. And that, of course, relies on states being members of the ICC. Which are some of the states that aren't members of it? And how does that affect the way that it's able to try to carry out justice?
Such a good question. So there are five big, powerful states that haven't signed up to the ICC. United States, Israel, Russia, India and China. And to what extent does that limit the court's powers? Well, quite considerably, because...
Any country that's a member of the ICC are obliged to enforce the arrest warrants when they're issued. And if they don't do that, to be honest, the actual implications of not abiding by that rule are kind of limited and more symbolic, political.
Most of Europe has signed up to the ICC. I think all of South America. But still, there are places where those fugitives that the ICC has issued arrest warrants for are able to travel freely despite the existence of international arrest warrants for them. I want to find out a bit more about some of the examples we've talked about. We've mentioned Israel's leader, Benjamin Netanyahu. There's a warrant out for his arrest.
What's that about? That was in November 2024. He is accused of war crimes and crimes against humanity in the context of the Israel-Gaza war. And the charges against him include using starvation as a method of warfare, intentionally directing attacks against civilians, committing acts of murder, persecution and opression.
other inhumane acts. So the judges here at the ICC found there are reasonable grounds to believe that he is responsible for those crimes. He has already, Benjamin Netanyahu, has already denied the charges. He said they were absurd and false. He has insisted that Israel's actions have been legitimate acts of self-defense against Hamas, which is recognized by the UK and many other countries as a terrorist organization.
The war in Gaza started after Hamas crossed over the border into Israel on October 7th, 2023, and carried out an attack that killed about 1,200 people and took more than 250 hostages. This triggered a massive Israeli military offensive in Gaza, which has killed tens of thousands of Palestinians. We have talked about this on other episodes of the podcast, which you can find wherever you're listening to this.
Back to Anna. I asked her about other arrest warrants that have been issued over the war in Gaza. The ICC did issue arrest warrants for three Hamas leaders. Mohammad Daif, he was accused of war crimes, crimes against humanity, for hostage-taking.
acts of murder and attacks on civilians. Israel has claimed he was killed in an airstrike in July 2024. The ICC hasn't yet been able to confirm his death, so that arrest warrant still officially remains active. Two other leaders of Hamas as well, Yahya Simwar, who led Hamas in Gaza, and...
He was killed by Israeli forces and also Ismail Haniyeh. He was the leader of Hamas's political bureau. He was assassinated in Iran in July. So again, that arrest warrant has been withdrawn by the ICC. In terms of other people and other situations,
The ICC also issued an arrest warrant for Vladimir Putin. I think that's probably the other most high profile arrest warrant issued by the ICC. So in March 2023, he was accused of committing war crimes linked to the unlawful deportation and transfer of Ukrainian children to Russia.
during the war. The Kremlin dismissed the warrant as outrageous and unacceptable. They said that Russia does not recognize the ICC's jurisdiction. Which other high-profile cases have there actually been in the court? This is a really interesting question because actually all of the suspects who've actually been tried by the ICC are from the African continent and that has led to allegations
mostly from African leaders. The core is being used as a tool of new colonialism to target the African continent. So the first was Thomas Labanga. He was convicted back in 2012 for recruiting child soldiers during the conflict in the DRC between 2002 and 2003. So that was the ICC's first ever conviction. The ICC has faced some challenges
pretty large challenges recently. US President Donald Trump has announced sanctions against
against the court. Tell me a bit about why he's done that. Donald Trump's administration has argued that the ICC's assertion of jurisdiction over non-member states, like the United States and Israel, was illegitimate and posed a threat to national security and foreign policy and basically limited countries' ability to defend themselves. Do you think that perceptions of the ICC are changing? I think one of the main shifts is
has been in light of the recent high-profile cases, those involving the Israel-Gaza war, and the fact that there is a growing criticism, partly as a result of the ICC's perceived impartiality, its challenges with enforceability, and how much more relevant it's become in the
the geopolitical landscape. What I've noticed is a major shift in terms of the types of cases that the ICC prosecutors pursue. And I think that is a conscious decision that in order for this court to get the kind of support it needs from countries, not just political support, but financial support too, it has to be seen to be acting in the places where international justice is
is most needed. Hannah, thank you so much for coming on the podcast. My pleasure. Thanks, Hannah. That's it for today's episode. Thank you for joining us. I'm Hannah Gelbart and you've been listening to What's in the World from the BBC World Service. We'll be back with another episode soon. See you then.