Russia and Ukraine Meet Following Massive Attacks
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You're listening to State of the World from NPR. We bring you the day's most vital international stories up close where they're happening. It's Monday, June 2nd. I'm Greg Dixon. Representatives from Russia and Ukraine met in Istanbul on Monday for a second round of peace talks. The meeting ended after one hour.

These talks came after a weekend in which both sides flexed their muscles. Russia launched more than 470 drones and several missiles at Ukrainian targets. Ukrainian authorities said it was the largest single-day air attack since the war began. And Ukraine launched a drone assault of its own, an audacious strike deep into Russian territory, destroying many aircraft in Russia's bomber fleet.

In a few minutes, we'll hear more about that operation and how Ukraine's drone capability has evolved. First, NPR's Charles Maines in Moscow tells us what came out of the talks to end the war. He spoke to Ari Shapiro. Charles, did today's negotiations actually accomplish anything?

Well, both sides were supposed to present their so-called memoranda. These are essentially written proposals outlining their vision for a future peace accord. That happened, but not without some gamesmanship from the Russian delegation, which refused to share a draft in advance of the meeting, which Kiev, in fact, had done.

Either way, these peace proposals didn't seem to get very far. The two sides only met for about an hour. But you can't say this meeting was pointless. Far from it. Ukraine's lead negotiator, Defense Minister Rustem Umerov, said the two sides agreed to a range of humanitarian exchanges, in effect building on a mass prisoner exchange that came out of the previous round of negotiations. Here's Umerov. We focused on those who are severely damaged, who are ill, who are in danger.

We focus on the categories of the young people and another categories and exchanges of the bodies of the people who died. Well, if that's what the Ukrainian side said, did Russia confirm that the prisoner swaps will happen? They did. Russia's lead negotiator, Kremlin aide Vladimir Medinsky, put more details on this. He announced that Russia agreed to return the remains of 6,000 Ukrainian soldiers.

Medinsky suggested he didn't know if there were presumed Russian dead held by the Ukrainian side as well, but said Moscow would accept them too if so. Medinsky also announced an exchange of all prisoners in poor health and for all POWs under the age of 25.

But it's not clear what that means. Let's remember that in Ukraine, the draft age is 25, though, of course, younger people have also joined in the fight. Another issue that the Ukrainians said they intended to raise was children kidnapped in Ukraine by the Russian army and brought into Russia. Was there any progress on that? Well, the Ukrainians brought the issue up, and Medinsky, the lead Russian negotiator, made something of a show of it. As you can see, here, not 1.5 million, but 20,000 people.

So in front of reporters, Medinsky pulled out a list of more than 300 children he said Ukraine had presented to Russia that Kiev wanted returned. But Medinsky went on to suggest Ukraine was amplifying the issue of missing children and vastly the numbers of them to garner sympathy in the West.

Either the way, Medinsky said Russia would investigate and return any minors to families indeed seeking them. These minor issues don't seem to address whether there will be an end to the war, something that Trump has been pushing for hard. What is the holdup?

Well, the problem is the Trump administration is finding out is that neither side is ready to accept where things stand right now on the front lines. Russia, despite participating in these talks, has almost shown zero willingness to compromise. You know, it still essentially demands control over Ukraine and thinks its advantage on the battlefield means it can achieve it.

Which is why these surprise drone attacks by Ukraine on Sunday on Russian air bases were important. They seemed time to show Russia and Trump that Ukraine still has plenty of fight left in it. And given that, it was interesting to see one small, I suppose, compromise from the Russian delegation today. Medinsky said Russia had suggested staggered short-term ceasefires two or three days along the front line, but maybe not for the reason you might think, not as a step towards peace. Medinsky described it as a question of sanitation issues.

in the hot summer months, so each side could collect the dead. Here's Charles Maines speaking to Ari Shapiro. More now on that surprising Ukrainian drone strike. It destroyed some of Russia's most valuable warplanes, parked at military bases deep inside Russian territory.

NPR's Greg Myrie has been following how drone warfare has evolved during this conflict. He spoke to Juana Summers. Greg, I have to say these attacks were quite stunning. So tell us, how did Ukraine pull this off? Yeah, Ukraine says civilian trucks were secretly driven deep into Russia and then parked just a few miles from these Russian military bases. The attacks were then launched remotely, allowing the hidden drones to fly out of the trucks and strike some of Russia's most valuable heavy bombers,

that were just parked out in the open at the bases. Now, Ukraine says it hit more than 40 Russian planes at bases from the Arctic Circle in the north to deep inside Siberia in the eastern part of Russia, more than 2,500 miles from Ukraine's border. Russia has acknowledged five bases were targeted, but has downplayed the damage and not offered details.

Wow. Have we ever seen anything like this before? A short answer is no. I mean, Ukraine is officially calling this Operation Spider's Web. Some Ukrainians on social media are calling it Operation Trojan Trucks. So perhaps there's some ancient precedent here. Nothing like this in modern warfare. Here's Kelly Grieco at the Simpson Center think tank in Washington. The Russians are always sort of playing catch up.

And that the Ukrainians are the one innovating first and trying these sort of daring, creative attacks. And then the Russians are left scrambling to figure out how to defend against it, prevent another one.

Drone warfare is now central to both the Ukrainian and Russian military. So describe what this fight might look like on a typical day. Yeah, Wanda, we're now regularly seeing nights where most attacks are at night, where both sides launch upwards of 100 drones at each other. Russia fired 472

drones a couple nights ago, the most ever by either side. Ukraine shoots down or electronically jams most of these Russian drones, but even if 10% get through, they can cause a lot of damage.

Russia is really looking in many ways to overwhelm Ukraine's air defenses with drones. And this clears the way sometimes for a more powerful Russian missile, which usually follows. Ukraine tends to use its drones in two ways. One, against Russian troops on the front lines. And second, longer range attacks, which can be hundreds of miles inside Russia. I mean, both countries have developed drone capabilities quite rapidly. Let's start off with Ukraine. How are they doing it?

Well, when Russia launched its full-scale invasion three years ago, Ukrainians began buying cheap Chinese civilian drones, like $1,000 or less, and attaching grenades to drop on Russian positions. This proved extremely effective, and Ukraine soon began making their own. Many hundreds of private companies are now making them. Ukraine made more than 2 million drones last year, plans to make more than 4 million this year.

And quickly, Greg, what about Russia? Well, Russia is not as innovative. It was buying drones from Iran. Now it's bought that technology from Iran, making its own. The quality isn't great, but they do make a lot of them. NPR's Greg Myhre. Thanks. Sure thing. That's the state of the world from NPR. Thanks for listening.

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