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cover of episode Some Israelis are Shifting their Views on the War in Gaza

Some Israelis are Shifting their Views on the War in Gaza

2025/6/4
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State of the World from NPR

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Esti Cohen
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Esti Cohen: 我最初支持以色列对哈马斯的袭击做出回应,但随着战争的持续,我开始对加沙的人道主义状况感到担忧。我无法接受看到儿童因缺乏食物而死亡,这违背了我的价值观。我参与抗议活动,希望能够唤起更多人对加沙人民困境的关注,并促使政府采取行动,结束这场战争,缓解加沙的人道主义危机。 Sully Abraham: 在10月7日哈马斯袭击以色列后,我认为对哈马斯进行反击是正确的。但现在,我看到越来越多的无辜儿童在加沙丧生,这让我感到非常痛心。我们希望被扣押的人质能够安全回家,但目前的战争局势并没有帮助实现这个目标。我认为现在应该寻找其他解决方案,以结束冲突,保障所有人的安全。 Yair Golan: 我认为一个理智的国家不应该对平民发动战争,更不应该以杀害婴儿为乐。以色列不应该设定像驱逐人口这样的目标。我们必须坚持道德底线,尊重国际法,避免采取任何可能导致更多无辜平民伤亡的行动。以色列正在成为一个国际社会中的贱民。 Mehran Rapoport: 以色列政客开始公开批评政府在加沙的军事行动,这使得更多的以色列人敢于表达自己的观点。加沙传出的关于饥饿和儿童死亡的图片,以及西方国家舆论的变化,都对以色列国内的讨论产生了影响。现在,以色列的强大盟友正在威胁要惩罚它,甚至要停止经济合作,这给以色列政府带来了更大的压力。 Zvika Moore: 我理解人们对加沙人道主义状况的担忧,但我认为当前最重要的是确保以色列的安全,并解救被哈马斯扣押的人质。为了保护我们的孩子,如果必须杀死敌人,那就这样做。我们必须坚持与哈马斯战斗,直到他们被彻底击败,这样才能确保我的儿子和其他人质的安全获释。

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These days, there is a lot of news. It can be hard to keep up with what it means for you, your family, and your community. Consider This from NPR is a podcast that helps you make sense of the news. Six days a week, we bring you a deep dive on a story and provide the context, the backstory, and analysis you need to understand our rapidly changing world. Listen to the Consider This podcast from NPR.

Today on State of the World, some Israelis are shifting their views on the war in Gaza. You're listening to State of the World from NPR. We bring you the day's most vital international stories up close where they're happening. It's Wednesday, June 4th. I'm Greg Dixon. Ever since Israel's war against Hamas in Gaza began over a year and a half ago, there have been Israelis pressuring their government to end the fighting.

Many Israelis attend frequent protests, loudly calling for a deal with Hamas to return the hostages. But recently, public discourse has been changing. As casualties in Gaza mount and food entering the territory is being greatly restricted, speaking out about the plight of Palestinians there is becoming less taboo. And PRS Hadil Al-Shalchi takes us to one protest in Israel.

A small but noisy group of protesters are penned behind a metal fence encircled by Israeli police near the border with Gaza, just on the other side of a dusty hill. People chanted slogans to end the war in Gaza and waved Israeli flags. The protest is organized by a left-wing Israeli peace group. But not everyone here is a veteran activist. 68-year-old Esti Cohen bangs on an empty cooking pot. She says to highlight hunger in Gaza.

She says right after the Hamas-led attack on Israel on October 7th in 2023, she was all for an Israeli response. But as the war drags on, she says it's gone too far. We heard the children are dying because of lack of food and I cannot agree. I can't accept it. Cohen took a bus for four hours to get to the border protest.

Sully Abraham lives nearby but isn't a regular at these events. He too thought it was right to fight after the Hamas attack, but not anymore. Children are getting dead over there. We want our hostages to be home.

And all the situation right now is not really contributing to bring them home. The anti-war sentiment in Israel has largely been driven by the desire to get the hostages back home. Now at demonstrations, though, you can see Israelis carrying pictures of Palestinian children who were killed, as well as signs with slogans to end genocide, a charge Israel is disputing at a UN court in The Hague.

And now prominent Israeli politicians are calling out Israel's conduct. Like centrist politician and a former Israeli military chief of staff, Moshe Ya'alon. In an interview last month, Ya'alon accused the government of sending the Israeli military into Gaza to commit war crimes.

And Yair Golan, a left-wing opposition leader and former deputy chief of staff in the Israeli military, told Israeli public media that the country was becoming a pariah state. A sane state does not wage war against civilians, does not kill babies as a hobby, and does not set goals for itself like the expulsion of a population, Golan said.

Left-leaning journalist Mehran Rapoport says hearing this rhetoric from politicians is giving more Israelis the freedom to speak out themselves. As the images coming out of Gaza of starvation, of children dying of hunger,

and of course, change of public opinion in the West. Which has hit home for many, he says. For the first time, strong allies of Israel are threatening to punish it, even withhold economic cooperation. But the shift in discourse is nuanced and finding its footing. In a recent survey commissioned by Pennsylvania State University, 82% of Israeli Jews polled said they supported the expulsion of Palestinians from Gaza.

Even leftist politician Golan backtracked his comments about killing as a hobby after some public backlash, including some members of the Israeli military. And there are those who want the war to continue. Like the father of Etan Moore, still being held hostage in Gaza, Zvika Moore was recently in Jerusalem, lobbying lawmakers. He says fighting Hamas is the only way to free his son. We don't want to kill babies.

We don't want to kill babies. We want to maintain our security, he says. If to protect our babies we have to kill the enemy, then that's what we'll do, Moore says. For now, Moore's stance is the Israeli government's policy. To press on with the war despite the high Palestinian death toll, even as the anti-war voices get bolder. Hadil Al-Shalchi, NPR News, Tel Aviv.

That's the state of the world from NPR. Thanks for listening. This message comes from Sattva. Getting quality sleep can improve athletic abilities, increase energy, and boost memory and learning. Sattva mattresses are designed to promote that kind of sleep. Save $200 on $1,000 or more at sattva.com slash NPR.

I'm Tanya Mosley, co-host of Fresh Air. At a time of sound bites and short attention spans, our show is all about the deep dive. We do long-form interviews with people behind the best in film, books, TV, music, and journalism. Here our guests open up about their process and their lives in ways you've never heard before. Listen to the Fresh Air podcast from NPR and WHYY.

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