Shownotes Transcript
Huh.
Huh. Turns out you can love a work management platform. Monday.com, the first work platform you'll love to use. Spring is here, and so are tulips from 1-800-Flowers.com. But these aren't just any tulips. 1-800-Flowers has bright, bold, and long-lasting tulips grown in rich soil for bigger blooms and sturdier stems. And they're shipped straight from the farm the same day they're picked.
Right now, when you buy 15 tulips from 1-800-Flowers, they'll double your bouquet to 30 tulips. Visit 1-800-Flowers.com slash SXM to claim this special offer. That's 1-800-Flowers.com slash SXM.
Welcome to The World in 10. In an increasingly uncertain world, this is The Times' daily podcast dedicated to global security. I'm Toby Gillis, joined today by Tom Noonan. It's a war that's into its third year, with one of the worst humanitarian disasters on record and foreign nations trying to find a deal for a ceasefire. But we're not talking about Ukraine. We're talking about Sudan. And we're talking about the
And it turns out most of us in the West are helping to fund the destruction with one of Sudan's main exports featuring in dozens of household products. This week, one of the deadliest attacks by paramilitaries at a famine-stricken camp, Zamzam in Darfur, left hundreds of civilians dead. It came as Britain hosted ministers from 20 countries aimed at finding a ceasefire and funding to ease the crisis.
Our guest today is The Times' Africa correspondent, Jane Flanagan. Jane, tell us exactly what's been happening at Zamzam. Well, Zamzam is a camp, a displacement camp for people who are not only displaced from this current conflict, they've actually been living at Zamzam since the genocide in the Darfur region, which was over 20 years ago. So this is a part of Sudan that just, yeah, it is relentless.
the battering of that particular region of Sudan. And we've seen in the last few days a renewed violence on Zamzam, days of relentless artillery shelling. And then finally, the Rapid Support Forces militia breached the perimeter fence and have now overrun the camp, sending people, the displaced people fleeing for their lives once again.
I have spoken to a woman who did flee Zamzam camp and she's managed to get the 12 kilometers to El Fasha, the nearest city, which has been under siege itself for the last year. That's the city that is held by the Sudanese armed forces and under siege from the RSF militia that overran Zamzam camp. Her account was absolutely harrowing. She left with her small children. She told me as she left,
Zam Zam, yeah, she saw neighbours screaming over the bodies of their dead children, people too frail to flee, that she had to walk away from people who are her neighbours, those who did set off on the journey in search of safety. Men were executed, women and girls were rounded up and taken away by the militia. And that is very much a hallmark of this war, the targeting of women and girls who are
enslaved to the militia, you know, to act as wives and slaves and scenes that were seen in the last genocide 20 years ago, very much being echoed now.
Jane, you've mentioned the two main players there, the RSF, the paramilitary group, and the Sudanese armed forces. The UN are saying this is the world's largest and most devastating humanitarian crisis. But despite that, it's being called the forgotten war. How did we get here? I think with Sudan, it's competing, isn't it, for the attention of
The international community against Gaza, against Ukraine, humanitarian crisis all over the world. Yeah, and it has fallen under the radar. People have been reporting from Khartoum, from Port Sudan, but the worst atrocities are happening.
probably going on in Darfur, where famine has been recorded, allegations of genocide have been made. But it's very, very difficult to get the information out. And only a small proportion of the funding needed to even make a dent in the suffering has been raised. And that's one of the purposes of the conference that's been held in London at the moment, which is to rouse out some support and more interest in doing something about what
It's not just the world's worst humanitarian crisis at the moment, but perhaps ever. Any chance, Jane, this conference can get anywhere with at least delivering aid or even an end to the war? I mean, it looks difficult given Sudan and the RSF are not represented.
Well, that looks like such a distant thought at the moment. I think at least beginning the process towards working out how this can possibly end. And it's most likely to end with the division of Sudan, the way in which...
areas now are dominated by either side, it may well be that we have a Libya-style situation where we end up with parallel powers, non-democratic military junta's running Sudan, which will become a separated country. And like Libya, I imagine this is one of those conflicts where outside interests from neighbours are going to have an impact. Yes.
Yes, Sudan has very much become the battleground proxy wars by neighbouring countries, foreign powers. And one of the controversies of the conference being held in London is, as you say, the exclusion of the Sudanese armed forces and the RSF, and yet the inclusion of the United Arab Emirates, which is facing now mounting crisis.
evidence that it is arming the RSF side, the side that is committing these atrocities. Hundreds dead in recent days, now in control of Zamzam Camp, likely to punish anyone left behind as brutally as the previous incarnation of the RSF, the Janjaweed, was seen to do 20 years ago. So the inclusion of the UAE, Kenya, Chad,
All strong evidence that they're meddling in this conflict for their own gains at the exclusion of invitations to the two warring sides is something that David Lammy will have to account for. Yeah, David Lammy, the British Foreign Secretary, of course, and he's hosting this conference and has pledged $200 million. The European Union is giving hundreds of millions more. But is this enough, Jane? No, it's enough to raise money. But at the moment,
Both sides are accused of deliberately blocking aid flows.
preventing help reaching people who need it so that famine has become a weapon of war as much as rape has. The incidents of famine that have been recorded in Sudan are manufactured. They didn't need to happen. And as much as money is needed towards having a fund for humanitarian support, unless both sides are on board with allowing access to aid and
organisations. Raising money is just one piece of the jigsaw. Money, though, as in any war, is important and the RSF doesn't seem to have any shortage of it. It turns out they're making money because of a product that many of us buy in the West. Jane, tell us about Gum Arabic.
Gum arabic is the natural sap that comes from acacia trees. It's found in many countries there in the arid band of sub-Saharan Africa, but Sudan is a major producer accounting for 70% of the global demand for this product.
which is used in a variety of items for fizzy drinks, including Coca-Cola, red wine, cosmetics. It's an emulsifier. It is a key agent in all manner of household goods. And what we understand is that this gum belt of Sudan is mostly under the control of RSSF, who are looting stocks, draining trees, burnings,
burning farmers out of their land and smuggling this product over the border to sell, basically to fund the war effort, to pay wages and pay for weapons. And unfortunately, once that gum has reached over the border, as in the global supply chain, it's almost impossible to discern whether it becomes part and parcel of the household goods that fill people's shopping trolleys.
Yeah, extraordinary to think how our grocery habits are funding some of the most dreadful scenes in history. I wonder, Jane, just finally, if the people of Sudan have any idea how little most of us in the West kind of know about this conflict and whether they feel any support from across the globe at all. Well, we've touched on it. It is a forgotten war. It is underreported. It is competing against other countries.
that are drawing the world's attention away. It has created...
millions of people who are now starving. It has displaced a quarter of the population. The scale of destruction to that country is almost beyond description. The level of violence and horror that people are facing in Darfur is beyond imagining. I was on the border of Darfur with Chad
last year and speaking to people who came over the border and they feel forgotten. They feel left, abandoned to their fate. They can't believe that some of the worst atrocities of recent history that they've lived through are coming back. And on this occasion, no one will do anything about it.
OK, Jane, thank you. That is Jane Flanagan, The Times' Africa correspondent. So that is the most forgotten war on earth right now, but some would say the situation in Gaza is also taking rather a back seat too, with hopes of a ceasefire there seeming increasingly remote.
We covered whether Donald Trump has dropped the ball on Gaza on April the 8th. Do go back and have a listen. For now, though, thank you for taking 10 minutes to stay on top of the world with the help of The Times. And we'll see you tomorrow.
Whenever I need to send roses that are guaranteed to make someone's day, the only place I trust is 1-800-Flowers.com. With 1-800-Flowers, my friends and family always receive stunning, high-quality bouquets that they absolutely love. Right now, when you buy a dozen multicolored roses, 1-800-Flowers will double your bouquet to two dozen roses.
To claim this special double roses offer, go to 1-800-Flowers.com slash ACAST. That's 1-800-Flowers.com slash ACAST.
Breaking news coming in from Bet365, and it's no surprise. Same game parlay from Bet365 just keeps getting better. Well, it's even easier to make a bet. Choose from the most popular markets like hits, run line, totals, and home runs. So many to choose from. Download the app, start building your bet, and see why it's never ordinary at Bet365.
Gambling problem? Call 1-800-NEXT-STEP. 21 plus only. Must be physically located in Arizona. TNC Supply.