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Welcome to The World in 10. In an increasingly uncertain world, this is The Times' daily podcast dedicated to global security. Today with me, Alex Dibble and Laura Cook. This week, Donald Trump is in the Middle East. Over three days, he's visiting Saudi Arabia, Qatar and the United Arab Emirates.
Notably, he's not setting foot in Israel. It's his first major international trip since returning to the White House. So what's he hoping to get out of it? And what are his hosts hoping to get out of it? Our guest today is The Times' Middle East correspondent, Sameer Al-Atroosh. Sameer, why don't we start with Trump himself then? When he's flying home on Air Force One, what do you think he wants to have secured by then?
Well, I think Donald Trump's been very clear about what he wants from this visit. In March, he said that he proposed making Saudi Arabia his first international trip if they invested a trillion dollars, and the Saudis agreed, according to Trump. Obviously, the Saudis have never confirmed that amount. And, you know, he had made Saudi Arabia his first trip also during his first term and later boasted that he, you know, got $450 billion out of that trip.
in weapons sales and investments. One analyst put it, you know, Donald Trump's idea of big money, you know, the first time he encountered big money, it was the Arabs in the 70s and the 80s. And, you know, his idea is that they have a lot of money and the U.S. should be getting more and more of that money because it, you know, it protects them and it's, you know, gives them security assistance. So he's been very, very clear about that. And
The Arab countries, in return, have been very happy to cajole him and to generate these headlines. So you've seen something of a bidding war, really, between the three Arab countries that are on his itinerary, Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates and Qatar. You know, first, the Saudis said that they would be interested in investing $600 billion, you know, weapon sales and other investments there.
Then the United Arab Emirates said that it would be willing to invest $1.4 trillion over a decade. And just over this weekend, you know, it's emerged that the Qataris are going to be gifting Trump a floating palace in the sky, as it were, a new presidential jet.
Yes, the art of wooing Trump. Sir Keir Starmer thought a lot about that before he travelled to Washington in February, of course, and his letter from King Charles seemed to go a long way. But let's go into why Saudi Arabia, Qatar and the UAE might want to woo him. What are they hoping to get out of him? And why don't we start with thinking about Saudi Arabia?
We're going to be getting a lot of announcements during this visit on investments. You're going to be hearing massive numbers. They all have to be calculated in the sense that, you know, these are mostly going to be MOUs, memorandums of understanding, lots of them old pledges or just sort of calculating current investments and investments that were in the pipeline. But, you know, this generates good press for Trump. It makes good headlines. He's happy with that. The Arabs are happy providing that sort of thing. And in return,
They each have their asks, really. I mean, for the Saudis, they're very interested in a civil nuclear program. They were negotiating it under Biden. At the time, it was tied to a security pact. And in return, Saudi Arabia would extend diplomatic recognition to Israel and set up ties with Israel. That didn't work out because
For the Saudis to go ahead with that, they needed Israeli commitment for a Palestinian state, and that wasn't forthcoming. So what they're looking at now from Trump is to go ahead with the deal without the Israeli component. And also they're looking for clarity on what they saw the U.S. do for Israel last year when Iran attacked it with missiles. They'd like those assurances for themselves. So
What we could be looking at or what the Saudis are looking at is some sort of defence agreement that doesn't have to go through the Senate or Congress. OK, so that's Saudi Arabia. What about Qatar and the UAE? Because they're all looking for similar things, aren't they? But they each have specific things they're particularly interested in. So what are they after?
Like Saudi Arabia, the UAE is very interested in becoming an artificial intelligence hub. So their investments, really, the ones that they promised, that $1.4 trillion, they're going to have trouble spending that amount of money in the States. But what will be spent will likely be spent on artificial intelligence hubs, data centers. So both Saudi Arabia and the UAE are very, very keen on that. And, you know, in general, they're investing. I mean, the way one Emirati analyst put it,
When I spoke to them, they said, you know, they're investing in the next four years of Trump, in a good relationship with Trump. And they just want to make sure that they always have him on site, really. That's the...
I think the bottom line for them and the Qataris as well. The Qataris particularly, you know, they face a lot of flack on, you know, in D.C. from members of Congress and others because, you know, they were hosting Hamas. And that was an abuse shared by, you know, the administration, the Biden administration, because, you know, they were seen as being very helpful in mediating an agreement. So the Qataris, you know, they're very keen on showing how helpful they are when it comes to mediation.
as are the Saudis and the Emiratis as well. So the Qataris are very, very keen on showing how important they are when it comes to furthering American interests in the region. And obviously, I mean, America has the biggest, its biggest base in the region is in Qatar.
Trump's visit, Samir, comes hot off the back of more negotiations between the US and Iran over Iran's nuclear program. That was the fourth round of negotiations. And every nation in the region has a big stake in what comes out of those talks and how the second Trump administration will deal with Iran over the next four years. Every country in the world, I suppose, has a big stake in that, but particularly countries in the Middle East.
But you've spoken a lot about all the economic things that they want from Trump. So what do you think their priority is from Trump's visit? Is it their economy or is it their security? Security at the end of the day. You know, unlike during Trump's first term, when both countries were at war with the Houthis, Iranian-backed Houthis, Saudi Arabia was advocating for security.
you know, action against Iran. Right now, they have a rapprochement with Iran. They don't want to see anything disturbed and they don't want conflict in the region because, you know, it upsets their economic plans, both Saudi and Emirati. So, you know, they're looking to have Trump on the same page. They're looking for clarity from him, obviously for security guarantees, you know, further security assistance and security collaboration. And another thing that they look at it also through a security prism is
is the Gaza conflict. I mean, they want to sway him on side. They had high hopes when...
he came to office that he would be putting a lot of pressure on Netanyahu. That didn't seem to happen at all. If anything, you know, his first few months seem to have emboldened Netanyahu in their view. So, you know, they're hoping that, you know, they can sway him more to their side, obviously next to this idea of, you know, emptying Gaza as inhabitants, push him towards recognizing a Palestinian state or towards that path, you know. So that's
They think that is a bit of a pressing matter, particularly the Saudis, because of the just a destabilizing effect that the conflict has in the region. And on Israel and Gaza, last week we were analyzing Benjamin Netanyahu's plans for a full takeover of Gaza. And he said that that would happen unless there was a hostage deal by the end of Donald Trump's visit to the Middle East. By this point next week, what do you think will have changed in the Israel-Gaza conflict?
Well, I mean, that's very hard to predict. You know, the talks have been
you know, there's been a lot of spoilers in the talks, sometimes Hamas, sometimes Israel. At this point, you know, especially with the Israeli government, they're signaling that, you know, even with the so-called Witkoff proposal, which is an extension of the first phase of the ceasefire, the release of all the hostages, then, you know, the resumption of the war. I mean, that's how the messaging has been. There's no way Hamas would agree to that. On the other hand, you know, Trump would
I would very much like to see something emerge from this visit, aside from the announcement today that Hamas would release a
Israeli-American hostage. So it's, again, it's very, very hard to predict. You know, from the Arab point of view, you know, they're exerting pressure on Hamas. Trump has exerted pressure on Israel. That's the only way you're going to get a ceasefire. That has been lacking, and they hope that that's changing. And there's certainly been, you know, cracks in the relationship over the past week and reports of that. And, you know, you have the Secretary of Defense cancel his trip to Israel.
And Netanyahu has denied any rifts, but they're hoping that that provides them some maneuverability to kind of get Trump to put more pressure. They in turn put more pressure on Hamas and get some sort of, you know, semi-permanent ceasefire.
OK, Samir, thank you. That's Samir Al-Atrush, The Times' Middle East correspondent. The Times has revealed that President Trump is expected to meet the new leader of Syria, Ahmed al-Sharah, despite him being designated a terrorist by the United States. Trump is set to meet a group including al-Sharah and Mahmoud Abbas, the head of the Palestinian National Authority.
We spoke with Samer Alatrash about Iran a few moments ago, and on the Iran issue, do go and scroll back to April 21st and our episode, Iran's nukes, the risks of no deal. That's well worth a listen. But for now, that's it from us. Thank you for taking 10 minutes to stay on top of the world with the help of The Times. See you tomorrow.
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