Can You Start a YouTube Channel in 2023? With Cleo Abram
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People have the internet. Welcome back to another episode, the way from podcast. I'm in a host markets and I have a special guest with me today.

Clear, abstract ing me. I have so many questions for you talk about. Here's the intro.

I'm gonna jump right in. O, K, I ask ChatGPT, no, I ChatGPT. Uh, actually, adam was. He came up with this idea. But we have asked ChatGPT for some questions for you for a podcast.

And so give me three questions that I should ask her about A I and her feelings about being a creator. OK. These are the actual questions to spit up.

好， number one, can you highlight a recent AI development that excites you and its potential effects on society? Alphago, fold. Yeah, you guys, you might to explain this .

alphabet prefacing all of this with, I am not a bioengineer I what I have learned about this is from like other people smart people telling me um my understanding is uh there is a there has been an enormous problem in biomedical science which is how do we predict from the um from knowing what I mean assets are in a protein, what that protein will actually look like. Three dimension ally. And typically what we've done to do that is I don't really totally understand how extra Chris .

og phy works through experimenting.

We spend like hundreds of thousands of dollars at probably millions on figuring out what proteins look like from their mino acid combinations that has been important for us in developing all kinds of medications um Better understanding disease and how to treat disease. It's a really big deal to understand what a proteins gonna look like before IT actually exists.

Alphago ld is is a machine learning system that took the amino acid basis in the three dimensional proteins that we already know and worked out a way to predict three dimensional structures from a masset basis way faster than we've ever been able to before. And now I believe we have predicted, with surprising accuracy, the three dimensional structures of every protein known to science. This is just a astronomical achievement based on machine learning in the last couple years. This is like, we don't know what medicines exactly .

will come out of that, but this is like truly enormous stand. Because, that said, a lot of things I didn't know about.

I made a video basically trying to understand, like, okay, so if so many smart people are ying, this is one of the biggest technological achievements humanity has ever accomplished.

And a bunch of smart people saying, this is a risk to humanity like how do I square both of those things? Both can be true at the same time but like a wire people fighting about this um in such extreme ways and why would someone say like this is going to save us and someone else that I trust this is gna kill us yeah so I went down the rabbit hole of like, okay, what are the people that are very concerned about machine learning actually saying might happen? And what are the people they are super excited about IT saying that I can do for us, and alpa hold is like one of the best examples.

So like, okay, practically, why do we want this stuff in the first place? Like, well, this, this could really change a lot of people's lives. Like, just imagine the medicine of this is speculative, but I just imagine the number of people that that could help is a very compelling case for using machine learning, especially in medicine.

Yeah, there is a ton of I I always wondered about this and we'll dive into all the different types of videos that you making, things that but I just know that you make a lot of videos that require a lot of research. And so I suppose naturally you learn A A lot about the topic as you're looking into IT, as you're trying to figure that out, you started off probably as a relative newcomer to the topic, as any expert would say.

And then by the end, you know, all these things about IT you can have to square, like, how do I explain this to someone who is where I started in this? How do you keep all that context in mind? Like how do you decide how to talk to a topic by your audience, where you are now an expert in something you realized? Most people don't have any of the context, any of the understanding that you've sudenly built up.

I never really get to expert level is the honest truth. And I would never do I mean answering questions about like stuff i've covered is one thing. I would never then go on a on television and then be the expert talking right at topic like i'm nowhere close um but I do get to the point where with the help of expert interviews um or background interviews I can mend create visuals that explain something important to others and and usually it's sound like context that they're missing or something that might help them understand what's going on to the the next time that they read a headline and like, oh, I know how this fits into the bigger picture of quantum computing for example. If I like that um I write down the dumb questions that I have right of the beginning I M and then I go back to them at the end and i'm like, okay I when I was done about that, when I had less context, what did I most want to know what were the questions .

I would have been great to answer in a way that that person understand yeah yeah .

some of them are like very simple. So for example, I might have the opportunity to make a video about the large hydron collider and getting really interested in adam smashing and we do. Um and one of my biggest questions like just this is before i've i'm now exposing like what is like before I have any real deep research on this um I understand that we are smashing atoms together yet at in shine is miss .

where in europe still don't .

fundamental understand how we get the Adams to hit each other correctly, how there so far their atoms, what how I understand that has to do with magnets somehow but like that one of my biggest questions like I I know that we're smashing Adams. Like how do we make sure they actually hit each other way over there?

Yeah, this is one of we are just like, how do boats work? Like we can we just .

break can we break this down?

Like I think I know, but I don't really know and we maybe we should figure this out together and go on that path. Yeah, that's totally fair. I so the question I asked every guess we have on that, I love to hear your answer for what is your your elevator, your elevator speech for like someone goes, hi, i'm Marcus s what you what do you do? Like you have maybe thirty seconds to explain in a way that actually capture everything. How do you do that?

I'm still working on this. I would love to have this like, but the way this is, I am clear, abram, i'm a video journalist and make a show called huge, if true, which is a very optimistic show about potential futures we can build with new tech. So every episode is a deep dive into one innovative idea or technology explaining how IT works, why the people who are working on IT want IT so badly, and why IT would matter to people like me.

I feel like it's a that's a pretty good elevator pitch. I just say it's like under thirty seconds can say the via the video journalist tag is also one that I think most people would immediately appreciate and sort of understand because I can't have to say, like I can either go along the video maker youtube. R, I want to say yo tube.

R, so I like I make videos and they're about technology and there are product reviews and they're along those lines. But I guess huge gift true is a naturally pretty optimistic like perspective on yeah attack. And I wonder when you're picking your topics, do you have to go with something positive? Or is there always or is the possibility of like a negative huge of true? Does that exist a hugely negative.

if true? Well, I covered a lots of important technology that could have terrible impacts, and I don't shy away from that. It's not just like, what could you know? Uh, this this is inherently good. It's more choosing the technologies that I think we're gna have the biggest impact on people's lives and expLoring how we could use them in ways that would improve people's lives, reduce humans suffering, continue what has happened over the last hundred years, which is improving hundreds of millions of people's lives through the use of technology, whether that's vaccines or and or clean energy or IT insert one of the many developments of los hundred years and and and so I I get the opportunity in trying to paint the positive future of expLoring like, okay, where where would things go wrong if we were trying to get there? Um and so in our quana computer episode, for example, there was a section on security and encysted because that's what people are really concerned about.

And you can just explain quantum computing by saying like here, that many things that could do, you have to explain, like, no here, the reasons people are concerned about building this tech and building a Better. But my hope is that maybe this is an audax ous dream for a youtube show. But I really do think that if we explain some of the most important technologies that are being developed right now, IT gives more people on opportunity to be a part of figuring out how we use those tools.

And if you don't understand what's being built, you can't really be a part of that conversation. So it's more like here's here's a really important piece of technology that's being created right now. Here's why people are are building IT because obviously, a lot of these are financial incentives.

But I also believe that when you know people wake up in the morning and go to work, they want to believe they're working on something that will improve other people's lives. And there's a reason why people who are working nights and weekends and just extremely hard on these tools are are trying to do that like they have a dream in mind. And I always want to know what that dream is yeah so that the other people can see IT. And Frankly, I decide if they agree that that's the future we should have. I don't necessarily always, but ah I want people to see that.

Do you think hear an optimist generally about a lot of the tech they are looking at? Yeah, I feel like the the trying to think of an example, like most tech has a positive like A I for example, when you look at things, I could possibly change the world Better in the tech rome. A I naturally has a lot of potential downside sides that people are always looking at, and that's a part of every conversation about moving a tech forward.

So she's kind of interesting. I wonder if you're picking a video topic. Do think about controversial topics like, okay, this one definitely has a lot of downsides, a lot of upsides.

You do want about fracking, right? And that one, obviously, a lot of these are going to have a potential downsides. How do you think about like picking topics and which ones have the most positive huge if through potential university.

which ones down? Yeah IT has to be the criteria that I look for when I making a video. Or um they're really only two.

One is, is this inherently visual? Um does IT need to be a video or would you be Better as a long form piece of writing? And one of those things I make in the other, I don't. So a lot of the time there are great topics that just fall by the wayside because they don't need to be explained via video.

If you and I are having coffee and were talking about something, and there's a moment when I need to pull out an apk in and draw diagram already to pull out my phone and like show you a clip and not just play IT, but like pause IT and be like, okay, you see how I felt that way that means that like, but and like, that's a moment where you had to see something in order to understand what we're talking about yeah, that's a good video. If IT doesn't have that and if not even just like one good visual but like a recurring visual that's explaining something complicated, it's probably not worth making a video about because these take a really long time. It's just you don't need me to make a video.

There are many people that are capable of making extraordinary pieces of writing that explain technology, like I don't write long form my videos. So it's all about visual as the like threshold thing. And then now that I make huge specifically, that show is all about imagining potential positive futures with tech. So if IT, what is the huge of true element like in every I I write pitches, uh, now with my team.

But originally when I was doing this, I was I was pitching myself and I had this like format of like, what's the key visual? What are like the titles, which help me pint down the angle of the story? And then what is huge of true about this? Like what is the potential .

massive how and if IT has .

potential massive negative downtown side that is that possible as well? That's good too. Like I I covered a lots of controversial attack. So it's not that IT has to be a only because it's not it's an optimistic show. It's not a positive show.

That's a good distinction. yeah. You obviously have to look at the positive and a negative, but sort of giving credit to both and understanding that there could be a positive impact. Here's what that may look like if you .

and encouraging people to be a part of the of the potential positive outcome, like explaining why we would want something and what that would look like.

You mention titles. Are you a title before the video person?

No, I wish I was Better about this.

It's harder to be. I don't know what's Better or worse because like in tech, if I am like reviewing a product, for example, I cannot come up with the title before i've done all my testing and figuring that out. Then i'll get to the answer, then I can maybe have a title before I start writing blag.

I can't start with the title, and I feel I get the same. You're researching, you're figuring things out. You need the title to come later in the process.

A lot of the time my titles are like, I mean, sometimes this is what they like quantum computing explained yeah, or like electric planes explained, like a lot of the time that's what's in my head. And if IT comes out differently, it's because over time we've we've like developed more of a pieces about the tech and then we can use that in the actual title and them.

okay. And the fun i'd do you do that after everything's me, is that also yes.

I I want to improve that as well. I think the more the father we get into the story, the Better the like Christians es in my head. Um I do think that one of the things that helps is, or I I hope will help and trying to get Better about this is figuring out what the key visual for the thumbnail is as well.

And sometimes those could be the same things like the thumbs that I tend to click on are the ones that have like an eric, like tom. Scot is amazing at this. So he's like tom.

I know tom. I like tom. I wanted watch his videos. And then there's something interesting and then an arrow and then there's something .

i'm been treated by what it's pointing IT, and I need to click find tom explaining IT.

Guess that's what I want to get to right now. Um a lot of the topics that I I haven't able to figure that out for every topic, but i'm working on IT.

Yeah this is so something about me I the explain videos that would make our kind of my favor videos to make like product reviews. We've got to groove and we're really good at those. And there was all such of other types of things that were branching out into, but it's something about explaining something I just start of thirty minute video about my roof like that I had to explain with graphics and with like data, my past year and experience with a solar roof.

And that kind of felt like, how do I turn a video about a roof? Like what kind of fuel l is even appropriate for that? Is IT just A A Normal? The thing about the roof is its roof singles that don't look like solar panels, but they have solar panels in them.

So I just looks like a roof that's the most boring channel of all time. So I needed to really figure out one out. Um I guess one year making these videos, do you have an idea in the production process before you even start what you think will perform Better versus not kind of like in tech?

I know certain devices are gonna form Better, certain things people care about and then there are certain things that I might care a lot about. But hey, there's only someone of people who will watch a keyboard video like there are certain things that I know won't perform as well. Are you doing the possible performance of the .

video also in picking topics by proxy? So I think the biggest, most important thing is, is this a technology that is gna matter to a lot of people? Like, does he have what is huge of true about this tech doesn't have the potential to impact a lot of people's lives generally.

Uh, those so far have been topics of conversation that are kind of already as I guess, people might generally know that something is coming. They may be curious about something that hasn't come yet. Like where are the electric planes? Like I haven't known in one.

Like wasn't that promised that sort of whether or not something is actually in the news that should be in the area of curiosity for people? Yes, sometimes I cover things that are not at or not part of the zeese popular life that I might be like sort of nh nish big deals. So you mentioned the fracking episode that's actually about I mean, the it's using fracking technology to improve geothermal, enhance geothermal, basically a one of the big problems with geothermal that you're tapping into these massive underground revoir and these underground reservoir just aren't everywhere.

And so if you can basically use the natural heat of the earth to heat up water to make team to spend a turn to genre electricity, that opens up to a thermal in a lot more places. Um but it's very controversial because it's using Franking technology to crack rock underground. And that has very realm.

And this has been studied by potential size mec effects, if you don't do IT correctly. And fracking because of the particular liquid that they use in in natural gas fracking and has some potential pollution impacts as well. That's my understanding. Is that not so much cause mch closer to Normal water. So that's not something that like people are generally chatting about IT dinner like I haven't .

you know like that night so much yeah IT .

is something that when you explain like IT IT IT pulls enough threads like people have heard of fracking. People have heard of people care a lot about clean energy. How can I combine those things that people are already interested in into something that I would want to watch? Yeah, I would love to do more of that. Actually, I would love to surprise people more often by what we're covering and show them why something might be important to them that they didn't .

already care about anything. yeah. And I think a lot of IT also sort depends on how often IT will come up again in their future, like they're obviously big topics that we know are just going to be in the news and over and over and A I and smart phones and social media stuff.

But then there are things and they're all sort of ever Green, but that will come up more sparsely but probably further into the future that longer, longer lasting topics. And those are interesting too. I'm just taking of this. I'm basically using this is like a context for like brainstorming tech videos and like how can I sort of do more ever Green tech videos and explainers that also sort of loop into like the daily conversations people have about tech because my brain is in content strategy land and .

that's what I do. What is that what .

you like about making explainers? Ah it's part the visuals for sure. And I think there's sort of a joy in transferring the the knowledge that you you've acquire as effectively as possible.

Like there's a little bit of art to the language of someone asking you a simple question, and you have thousands of data points and experiences and information that you could give them, and you need to condense at all into something that actually accurately gives them a picture of what you wanted to say. And I think the explainers are the the best version of that for me. We're like I just live for a year with this really niche product and there are a bunch of different ways of talking about how good or bad IT is.

Let me deliver that in a way that you'll actually feel what I feel about IT. Yeah, that's that's the best feeling for me in video. Yeah.

I I feel that as well. I also one of the things that I think makes you great to this is I learn this through our quantum computing trip. You have this focus really, really carefully on what people are likely to experience in their actual lives here, which sometimes I felt like I can lose side of like sometimes technologies are just interesting to me, but they don't necessarily actually like i'm focused on, on the future that they could build on why they mattered to people. Um but you have this fair, I think through the like empathy that you've developed through product reviews, you understand that people people need to there needs to be an impact on .

people's daily lives. It's strongest reason to and and that's .

something when i've tried to keep in mind sense of like why? Why would someone who's just going about their life 看 about this？ Why would I change their day to day? Yeah, is IT five years? Is ten years? Like do they want to talk about IT a dinner? Like is that actually going to show up in their phone?

Yeah and that one, like, do I want to talk about at a dinner? Or like, do I see a headline? And do I just onder and move on with my day? That moment, I think still does have a lot of poll like you can still do a great explain on something that I just keep seeing this headline, what what IT is a superconductor? I don't even know.

I keep seeing this thing pop up in the news and to get that explainer and now to be able to process all of the further information that comes out about IT with much more valid information is is great. But I for me, it's always just spend like when I do product review, it's almost literally like should I buy this or not? And I need to answer with that question in as many or as few words as I have.

I need time to that question. And so perfect, you know, I can do product reviews all day, but we want to do more interesting, exciting stuff. So as I do more interesting, exciting stuff, I still, the back of my head, always have the thing of, like, this is good or bad for me.

Like, do I care about this or not? Do I think this is good or do I think this is bad? That kind of the boil at all down answers. I'd try to at least give people in the understanding of the for product stuff.

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you started, I guess i'd say started, but the earliest that i've seen you, your work was on your red box and you're doing videos for them and the explainer stuff. And then from the five years there, you went independent and started making your own videos. Any regrets? How's that gone so far? Tell me what how do you feel about that? It's been best OK.

It's been so good like I didn't. One of the best things actually is that all of a sudden everyone on the internet that I have admired for years is like feels like my colleague yeah.

team internet for sure.

Team internet is is a really big deal and people really route for you and people want to be friends. And just like the collaboration when your out in the wild is something that I wasn't is like one of the best things, and I didn't even know that that was a thing.

So know why I think that is. And this I watched another interview that you did something you said about um journal typically assigned a story and they don't necessarily have as much personal investment or interest in that story. And I think once you go independent and every single topic is up to you, IT feels like everyone is so connected to their work.

We're like when I watched cleo's work, I know that he picked this and there is an amount of intention and ever that went to this because he cares about this. And so everyone, when they're interacting with each other, other's work always knows like, uh, this is something they actually care about. And so I feel like a lot of people do great work for media publications, and that's all great. But the second they go independent, you you figure out what they really care about total. And so sort of something i've noticed with like what people choose to cover.

I think that's truth me. I think I mean huge of is a product of what I really wanted to watch, like what I what I love to watch and understand. And I I really, I was looking for a show like this, a show that would explain complex technology to me, in a way that would make me understand that people working on IT explain what its potential impacts could be.

And I give me hope for how we could use IT in the future. I love saifi. I but I grew up watching star truck.

And the size, if I, that I love now is very different tone in like the the vision that IT paints of the future. You know like there's a real this topic tone. It's not just black mir.

It's not just you know a bunch of these species that again I love. It's just like the the um the aggregate tone of what I was watching was incredibly dystopian. And just to the specific point about choosing your own story is like huge of true is the show that I just desperately wanted to make.

And and part of why I went independent was like I felt puled to make this show specifically. And I want you to make IT exactly how I wanted to make IT. I wanted IT to exist like I had IT in my head.

And one of the one of the things that's been difficult, actually I didn't anticipate the extreme positive of having uh, colleagues that were all of these people internet folks that I admired. One of the downsides that I didn't anticipate, one of the chAllenges i've i've been working on is the one I was at box. Actually, box does let all of its video produces pitch their own stories.

And so I never did a story maybe on someone like the daily show that I made, everybody was pitching. But when I was making box videos for our our youtube channel was always like, I came to my boss with a pitch idea and looked very much like the pages that I make for myself now isn't format to these things. And then I would go make up.

And we there's an expression, keeping the head in the hands as close together as possible. So and the person who had the idea then did all the research, then interviewed the expert, then probably created the actual edit. Um I am an animal, but I would always have help because my animations aren't beautiful.

And then we can create the final video published. That whole process came from ideas that that every video produced box had had. The thing that I forgot is that for every video idea that became a video, I had pitched like seven others. And so someone had been helping me the entire time figure out what would actually make a good video, and what was just like an idea that I in the shower that actually doesn't .

deserve to be minutes on yeah OK.

And that filtering exercise is not only important because only the really good stuff gets made, but also you don't spend time running down all of the the worst stuff. And so early on, I was spending a weeks like doing research for things that did not deserve to be videos.

What do you mean I not deserve? Because I feel every topic will have some merit to IT and you'll find like it's interesting enough to you to make something. So how would you figure out that it's not worth a video?

There just has to be enough there there to merit like at least eight minutes of highly produced, like animated choose phy of, like a complex video. Now, actually, I make most .

of those ideas into a weird, okay, on youtube there is people who do like the same format, every video, which can feel comfortable, but also possibly get you stuck a little bit. And you have obviously this tremendous long form format, and then you have the short stuff.

And I wonder if, like, you had a four minute idea, would you try to cut IT down? Or would you try to bump IT up? Like where there is? I would be like, right? I put out a form of a video. I need this to to be where IT lives.

I would like IT to just be I like every idea be the length that deserves what I came up with huge. And I was um thinking about launching IT. I wanted IT to be a show where I could make a three minute video or twenty five minute video, and that would all be huge.

People would expect you whatever length. Then I could have a publishing kens that supported that three minute videos shorter. Turns out that maybe because of the netflix show, which I done, which which is about twenty minutes, box videos are generally anywhere from five to fifteen.

Answered was, you know, five or six. And glad you ask. This was like twenty. So these are all of the shows that I had been in part of before I went independent. I just write like eight to fifteen minute scrip. I like I just just like I don't know why that is, is just the length that comes out ah i'm not sure if that because I choose ideas that feel like they merit that or because I could work on my well.

here's a test. When you make a short do you run up against the fifty nine and a half second that every single time .

i'm getting Better about IT, i'm like coming up with ideas. And I have an associate producer. His wonderful is helping me with this. Some of them only need to be like thirty seconds so I am working on again, just like the idea should be the length that IT needs to be yeah that's the principle like huge of true should not in my mind should not have an an episode length that were shooting for yeah yeah .

I really I encourage my creative friends to not like lock into any one format or length even though it's really like you create this other audience expectation and sometimes really healthy to do that and create some coming back from more you do want to keep IT makes IT up once a while and I figure out you know this is a four minute video and make four minute video but I do I like sure because that's the thing you've been prolific with short since we last talked about these we are doing um it's only a couple of months ago and I was like are you're doing like more sure it's an either cutting down video ideas that aren't worth the full video and deciding, okay. This and be a short or just coming with ideas that are seems like they're four shorts in the first place. What is your top secret short strategy?

Break IT down for the whole post. awesome. I really, really like sure. I when I was at box, I was making a lot of tiktok, a lot of like explanation for a work that just sort of belonged in that vertical short format. So I really enjoy that creatively.

I don't think if I were just making short form content, I would feel creatively if I felt like, I think for me, I make A A show. And for me, that means i'm aiming for like topics that feel like they deserve more time than that. Um and to the the baLance between like the the creative outlet of shorts and the sort of final product of the long form videos feels really creatively important to me.

I love that youtube now has both. Yeah so shorts for me, they are either. They fall into a couple categories. Shorts can be, uh, ideas about things in the world that I think are very interesting and important to explain, feel like they fit within the huge of true optimistic future category of stories that I do but don't deserve anything longer than sixty seconds.

But I can explain one simple little idea, one update, one whatever in sixty seconds that again, to our point, that should be the link that IT is I would make an independent short and never make anything else about that or I don't need to. Um another thing is and these are all kind of like van diagrams blended, but um another category is, is this an idea that could become a longer form? Video so I made an episode of a short from video about um the tracking technology in world cup balls last year.

okay. And uh, I was kind of interested in IT. I hadn't covered much like sports automation stories for tracking tech and I wanted to sort of feel out how people would respond to a story like that. We did incredibly well and I was shocked to discover that one of the main debates within that, the comment section of the video, was whether or not people want tracking tech at all to that degree in their sports.

the human element versus the AI add vance call, right?

And that to me, like as A A person who is really into technology, who, you know, like I have a sort of sentiment about this, I did not occur to me that someone wouldn't want a tracker in their they are soccer ball to understand if IT like went outsides or went like like officially. And people really, some people really hated IT, and I found that fast money and I love that. I think that's totally right for a worthwhile d discussion.

I wanted to understand that Better. And so that's becoming up a long from video that's coming out later this month. Um and the other category is work related to an existing long form video that feels like IT should be a sort of pull out sixty seconds or something that IT adds on to the story that i'm making.

And the way that I actually think about making the show is like, imagine you're building a brick wall and your job is to go out and like, find the bricks and lay all the bricks together. And most ninety nine percent of the work that I do is collecting all the bricks in the first place. Like i'm reading the books.

I'm talking to the experts. I'm like doing these background and interviews. I like cutting off the snipped yeah ah I like put like all of those are like my bricks, and i'm like sitting there with this big pile. And then the the journalism, like some of the pieces is naturally fit together. You like start to build a wall and some of those little piles naturally become like, how do you put the bricks together to make a beautiful, thoughtful, satisfying long form video? How do you put them together in like little little piles to make um you know one sixty second video here and and another there and like what are the bricks that you would maybe you like repairs sing bits of the original stack into the others or you might have too .

many of a certain type of brick so you put some of them into the wall, but you have some, some left over. You can make a little castle out of later.

That could be thing exactly. And for me, the important thing is, I know that some people do this successfully. And I do think that you can cut down videos in ways where you like change a little bit. And then like podcast, I think can be cut down pretty well into little snipe ts that become good shorts. But my video OS is like my long form videos are I like, they are like writing a rubik cube.

but doesn't you can say there's like it's like need a sweater or like if you missing threads from other parts of little snip .

IT doesn't work. And I think more people are in that category than they realize. I think more people try. And the way that I think about this is more people are repurposing the content capital sea, the the like asset that they created as opposed to the content that like the work inside the work, the bricks. So that's what I try to think about when i'm in that third category of shorts, when i'm trying to figure out how to make short form videos based on the topic that i'm already covering a long form. It's not about cutting down the long farm about like what within these what are the bricks that merit short from body .

is super good analogy. I love that. And also, I ve done the same thing or like i've made a short and had enough feedback that I go, yeah, there's many more bricks here to build a wall and we can make a thought that what we're done with right now and that's happened and that's going to continue to happen. But I also wonder about the other way around where I don't want to cut out like a section of my video because that feels like i'm missing, you know how like you'll see a wall or like the bricks overlap. So you happens a to create a new peace specifically for the format that has a lot of the things from the main.

Yeah and I think about that a lot in the actual delivery of the content as well. I deliberately, in my short form videos record on my phone as though i'm face timing someone and like they're weirdly all from the same angle because I just hold my phone in my right hand I like talking to phone as though it's my my friend um and for me I I that feels Better as a short from video compared to like the fork static shot that I used for hosting my long form youtube videos.

Yeah that is faster. The production quality thing also I was gonna like you're making videos you'd want to watch and you you're creating the show that you wish existed um for the show it's it's almost not to me this to me IT doesn't feel like a show as much as just feels like I was scrolling and I got this nice like piece of content and I was I was just a nice little burst of information for me.

How do you think about like what stuff like when you're creating a new idea for a short? Are you thinking i'm just amazing to make these under six second? And how do you condense all of the relevant information to be in the short versus something that do you collect and IT turns out is relevant but doesn't fit in the sixty seconds? I don't I don't know how you made the entire soccer all video under six second.

Mostly it's in the idea choice OK. You know, for example, the socket bowl was about the ball specifically as opposed to the monger video that i'm making right now is about like the way that hawk I was invented in tennis and then bled .

into all kinds of other automation.

Yeah, it's mostly just the one idea. Like if I if I called you and I had six seconds, tell you something I wouldn't like, start with like, well, you know, in the early .

two thousands, yes, I can wait for that video.

The sport going to put IT right when the U. S. Open starts. Oh, because it's so much .

of IT came from tennis.

The summer in foobar, I don't cover.

Foobar is my socks for ball of any sport. But whenever I see a clip of football, and I just see, like the the crazy tracking and the like, yeah, they do IT under the player, see another people. And I just like, when did this gets so advanced when I watched this as A K, that any of this stuff and they tried to go a little too far sometimes, like in basketball, they had like the three point line light up for like and I was like Kennedy p that's a little too much.

I'm very into the automated ref call tech business like not just making the the viewer experience Better but actually changing the calls of the game that feels to me like the most controversial area. And I I do really like to your question about like controversial topics earlier.

Yeah, I do really like to deliberately choose the controversial topic and then imagine if it's controversially, people disagree about what the potential generally the potential outcome of something could be like. Some people are worried about IT in some people are excited about IT. It's like, okay, what are the people who excited have in mind? What are the reasonable concerns from the people who are worried? Like that's probably a good, huge of true episode actually. And sports fans disagree.

disagree about. I just got into soccer like glass season. And I remember when my friend was explaining to me the whole V A R thing like h that's a great idea.

He's like, no. Like what are you talking about my and why win? You have cameras from every angle or you can literally no for sure.

But then i'm sure there's a lot of sports fans that are like it's taken away from the game, like every sport has a everywhere as a different a amount of uh, computer intervention to get the call right. The tennis one is obviously I think that's the most black and White one. Oh, the ref matic call. I don't think it's right. Let's go to the A I, who is going to .

toma in the U. S. open. I believe it's the automated system that makes the call first now.

okay, so you can even get the replay anymore.

Uh, IT doesn't have to be. So some sports use the chAllenge system, which is what you just described, and some sports use the automated OK first, which is very controversial. But I I struggle with this because on the one hand, and this is like the place I try and get to with every episode.

So I feel like this is a good example. But it's like on the one hand, I really believe that we have asked athletes to spend their entire lives perfecting their ability to to play this sport by these rules. And it's up to its, its, our our responsibility to then enforce those rules precisely and accurate so that those people who have worked so hard do that our judge fairly. I don't think I could possibly look at an athlete that I admire and say like, no, we know, I know we set up these rules and I know that we have a tool that would judge you more fairly, but we're not gonna use IT because the uncertainty is probable for me.

And and so so that .

that's one thing. People love fighting. However, I once I dug into this, that was like my initial instinct.

I was like, people just love getting mad. That's part of the sport. I get like, I love getting mad of the TV like future. But when you really get into IT, it's actually less that than people um naturally object to the precise enforcement of the rules, which I kind of agree with. So for example, like there's this.

Famous a case that I use in the video where the guy, his offsides, this is there's a lot of automated to take detect offsides and soccer and he's offsides by, like you can see, IT in the replay. It's like the tiny st tiniest little amount and he was like the player clearly believed that he was on sides. And any reasonable ref, I mean, I think of would have said like that players like basically in line with the final defender like this is on sites, but in a very, very precise system.

You don't have that level of like natural buffer because you are enforcing the rules even more precisely and accurately. And you could that like and then that so interesting to me because you could play out the use of that technology in line with people's values. You just have to decide that those actually are real values.

Like you could say we won a build in a buffer into this system. You could do that technologically. That's fine. You just have to admit that you want IT first. Yes, which is a very interesting thing.

And I think that's what people are actually fighting about, is like what what rules do we actually care about and how do we want them enforced? And that's a much, much more like rich conversation to me. That technology .

revealed who case.

uh, the the toe was off sides and there like, I forget what I was I remember I was like a leverkusen versus club burgers. I think I forget to won but like the the the automated tech difference yeah just so .

I will think about basketball in like there are different errors of the game based on how I was and the referees would dictate the players yle. So there is now there is like the twenty year era of like the eighties and nineties, which are more physical. And the rules are also slightly different.

But they were enforced in away that would allow because of contact, where now referees would call that same contact differently, despite the same rules. So the reference changes the game. The way the league wants that to move changes the game.

All these things. IT feels like once we take that out of referees, maybe sports fans object to the the human element being taken out of IT, so that that I can simple, I can simplify with that, I can sympathize with that. But IT is fascinating that he had object to the precise calls of everything is is really cool. Also, he is like golf, or it's like rules are really nebulous sometimes like the balls buried in the face of a bunker, but there are some grass underneath at so as IT technically man made because the bunk er has a lare of like styrofoam holding the lip up or is IT because of the grass are touching above that it's not man made is to get relief back to just some guys just going to tell you what he thinks with the rules and like you .

can gonna go by .

that you masters. I went to yeah the open at um royal liverpool. Yeah he was he was incredible. Yeah, but watch the video that comes. That's the thing that matters.

Shorts are hard for me because I kind of write like you, which is, imagine you have a whole bunch of back story in context. Help you Better understand something about the time I crunched all down to assure IT boop sits three minutes long. I can't really make a sure out of this um and it's a chAllenge to try to cut IT down for tech.

I think about them like little experiments, like i'm just like shooting a text off to a friend. Here's here's an update kind of thing. And also I have such a producer who is helping me.

do you have a criteria for a what type of video you will make first? What now you decide not to make a video about?

I think I think the way that people generally, the sort of dragon speak version of this would be, you think about your brand, I think about the way that I want people to, the way that I want to show up in people's lives. I I want, every time they see something from me, for them to understand that they're gonna get A A little taste of something really interesting, a little taste of the future.

I want them to have a specific feeling, which is we can make the future Better. And if i'm not really gonna able to do that, then I. Maybe if it's super important, but there would be an exception.

yeah. okay. So the other question I have since you we're talking about the video, you're working on that later in the month and i'm jeans.

Every time I ask you created this question, I get an answer. I hate that I can't relate. But how far out do you know your content calendar goes? Like how far? How do you know what you're going to be making already?

I know for sure the next three videos, and I only do one long from video a month right now, three months. So I know three months for sure, like in production, in research, like planning those shoots.

And then I have maybe like six ish other episodes, don't feel really good, feel like I I never want to to get to the end of something and only have like one episode out because the the research process and the especially if there's a field dude that the the scheduling process takes so long that if i'm not starting a couple months out, then I am probably going to be delaying a video which I won't want to do, right? So I have ideas. There are good pitches that have been Green.

let. Maybe maybe at least six months past that. So the the longest version that I could pretend to say is like in nine months, that's not really true. It's really three months and I have ideas that could exist. Bond.

yeah, but so I I love that because you can you can can't decide like when these will come out based on possible either events that they're going to line up with or something like I don't really have that other than like we know certain products get announced every year, so we know what we're going to be doing roughly at that time of year like o it's about to be september and october.

What happens every september and october are we get a new iphone in a new pixel phone. So we know that that's happening. But if you have know what we're doing in three months, I have literally no idea what we're doing in three months.

You have the thing that you've done is that you've set up relationships with companies that want you to review their products upon launch. And sometimes those launches are themselves like massive holiday, basically like the apple vision pro. How did that video come to exist? Because that is like immediate when they released, and you'd clearly like tried IT set IT up, planned to be release.

read them. So something that happens with those types of events are very secretive. So we don't typically actual know exactly what's happening until it's being revealed or if you're fortunate to ensure you'll get briefed on IT a day or two or a week beforehand and still you have an idea of what they're about the sound state and we'll say IT uh, apple notoriously does not be brief anyone.

So when they announced the vision pro on stage, that was the first time that day that anyone outside of apple was actually getting that real information. Um and then we got to go down to this sweet building that they built on their campus and like try IT and get IT fit for us. And there was like a thirty minute product demo.

And basically, I don't know, probably one hundred people got that demo. And IT was all of our jobs in that moment to decide what is our content strategy around the thirty minute of camera demo that we just received. And for me, the idea was i'm going to go back to the soto room set of my Cameron to trip out and just talk about what I just experienced.

And the idea was like, okay, you're not to be able to buy this thing IT. But let me just tell you what I experiencing, what I think of IT, because this will give you a good idea if you might be interested in international. Other people have different ideas.

They were kind of trying to compare to other things. Other people kind of the same things to describe the experience, but IT was basically that I was go back to the hotel room, talk about IT shop IT up and upload on hotel wifi and cross your fingers wow. That's how that one comes together.

I think there's a lot of other versions of that were like a device gets announced on the spot and everyone actually, i'm giving myself too much credit. I I think I on the spot decide my content strategy. But I think a lot of people go into IT already knowing we're making this video, this video and this short.

And when we show up, we're going to make these things. And I like to leave a little bit of room for, and this wasn't worth of video. This won. This update wasn't really big enough to warrant to whole with you. Maybe it's just short, but I cannot try to before .

I would love to develop that kind of like even just being one of those hundred people to get access to actually try IT like and film. I mean, you got to film trying IT right? No.

didn't weird top cigar things can even point camera IT?

So I mean, I think and also getting sense stuff, it's a try beforehand like I think for me um if I wanted to explain something complex that companies working on, I would love to know about IT before that they tell other people and as long as they okay journalistically with me like not showing them the video beforehand, if they are basically saying like we know the premise of your show and we know that you're going to explore this rigorously but optimistically like contextualize our tech within the future of what this category could be.

I would love to be able to do that. Like that for me would be much Better than trying to like time. Our video on equal um computing happened to come out when a lot of people were talking about condom computing. That was an accident. I had no idea what's .

that was on purpose told I was.

I knew that there was going be a massive dept.

Yeah no, that's funny because I think you could do a lot of these types of videos and we are talking about like we're working on the videos today that will come out tonight. And like our timely, we've sort of optimized in a way where we that's kind of like the standard is like if you ask me to review, if you handed me a brand new phone that I ve never seen before right now at this table, within a week, I can upload the review of the phone IT would be like three or four days of like really using IT and poking around and taking notes and all that stuff.

And then by the time I get to the day three, day four, day five and like, I think I know this thing pretty well, and I can form opinions based on what I know about the smart phone landscape. And that's a day of production and a day of editing. And then it's up and I just don't have any other like the longest timeline of an edit will work on is like two weeks, which is incredibly long time for me because I feel like the need to get the video out for the entire two weeks and then finally out of here there IT is but yeah, that's a that's a big difference. But I I do think you could do like a sort of a look into technologies that have a lot of potential is just so many of them are so short term that they wouldn't ah maybe feel like there there in line with the huge of true thing. But they they are there a lot of mouth there.

I think would do IT six wings. yeah.

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This is something that I am thinking about a lot, and kind of like building the plane as IT flies, but is the vibe right now. So to rewind a little bit when I was at vox, vox is amazing internally because IT basically is set up to be, or at least that was at the time um dozens of independent creators within box. And then they're support in terms of story editing and for me, animation and you know, a lot of infrastructure. But people generally are are making their own videos much in the same way that people do when they have full channels. So this is like john y. Harris was doing this, like sam els, who recently started a channel with honey and is me like the the teams and fox now and so that was really helpful because in order to become uh I know I know much back story you, but in order to become a video generalist, that box I was actually already working at box on the business development side um and I went to nightmare ses that the school of visual arts in new york, which I highly recommended to learn how to edit an animate so that I could make videos for box like nights and weekends like just trying to get Better at this skill. Eventually started making videos for their youtube channel but that that requirement basically that I be able to do everything in order to do the video production um in the first place, has become really important now because I know what I am looking for and I know how to do IT yeah as the risk not nearly as well as the people are my team.

Now that helps because you at least can give direction based on what you know is possible and what you have. Try to vision .

like the editor that I work with right now is way Better and way faster than I ever could be. The animated or that I work with is way more talented and has a sense of style and is also just technically profited in a way that like IT would take me so long to get anywhere close.

But that's the great privilege that I have being in a pendent like to be able to go out and hire those people and make them a part of the team and make the show together because and have them add something that I never could add IT IT makes the show so much Better than I ever imagined that could be and that that I was I was no right. I was starting out and I did work with an animator and an editor um different animators and editors from kind of the gets go. I ve never been a great and like I am proficient but .

not excEllent in imation. I ve it's it's um .

it's it's not gorgeous H O O H. And but learning what the style of the show was and who could do IT has been informed by the fact that like I was for a long time, I was, I was doing all parts of this myself, including the actual journalism itself. The the third member of my team is an associate producer who works on mostly the research side in helping write shorts and like making the videos and much more rigorous h than they could be if I was just one person like having that additional person. He also um .

niche exactly.

And so he has a technical process on the research side that I don't have that combination of all of these people that are so much Better their thing than I am helps make obviously the work Better. But also um the fact that I can do some amount of what they can do is a big deal. So to answer your question about how I actually spend my time now, I would say it's mostly.

Research, writing um prepping for interviews, this sort of traditional production side that i've always journalism itself is still most of IT. I also run the business myself. I like do most of my negotiations .

the but keeping to i've been accounted .

yeah but like I IT has felt very important to me to I cave my hands firmly on the wheel. Recent the first couple years and not outsource a lot of those things like a lot of managers reach out here .

and they're want to run your business and like give me .

that the rains I see and I probably spend more time than I will be able to long term doing that. But that's that how I would I spend like twenty percent of my time doing the business stuff, eighty percent of my time doing production. Um and that production part includes reading the books, writing the scripts um and then like giving notes um and then traveling to very shoots and things. I'm trying to reduce the number of field shoots that I do because IT just means that you're constantly waiting on other people's permission to actually make the thing and it's important to have things that you can already create. What that takes that you're not stressed, but that's that's a big talk at to is like travelling to different shoots, actually doing that .

production like natural like I I probably told you about my ocp sono gy with like a creator. So I feels like you've already like you've cut off some of the arms of like the super talented editing and animation and things like that. Are there things that you're also eventually going to like what is ideally what is a pile look like in three or four years when your your in the dream workflow and you you've optimized your everything?

I think the general principal is that focus is your friend. The the biggest mistake that I could make right now is getting too spread, launching too many things. You know, I I have not it's been a year and a half with hit a million.

I don't have any match. I don't have any like patria on. I don't do anything except create this channel. That might be a mistake, but that fold level of .

focus has really helps me.

And so I think increasing, not decreasing, that is the task ahead. So I am trying to figure out ways to you know reduce the amount of time that I spend like missile eneus time traveling or you know the honestly, like I don't I don't say yes to that many events because that's just not like the being the the public figure is helpful on the show going around to a lot of events like not actually part of my job, the way that I see IT.

I do think that I probably could like if i'm imagining the ocp son thinking about the arms that I could cut off. Uh some amount of business support I do think would be worthwhile. I have an agent who does agents who do um a lot of sourcing and helping negotiate um but I also think that I could probably use some more support in in running the business of huge that seems like a longer term thing to cut off. Like again, i'm really excited about fully understanding all of the mechanisms and all of the business and all of the finances of this running a production company. Yes.

what would I feel like? The question that you will start to get is like you still do that and that you know, like, okay, I think I have learned audience and out of this and you said.

you said at IT seventy five percent of your work, how do you make .

that decision? Well, I mean, I was editing a hundred percent so I like, oh, well, we'll find someone who's incredibly talented and editing and and slowly give them sort of rain to like not just not just Emily, but improve a lot of the videos that we're doing but based on anything, but yeah, like literally everything that we do here. The studio was, at some point something I was doing.

This is the year of thirteen of whatever IT is of making videos. And the first seven or eight of those years was just the videos. And at this point i'll go to like a youtube creator summit and so on. Be like, yeah put my your chief of my touch with your chief of merge like, I know what is, how do you guys have all these people, all these things like this, all these things I never thought about? So I feel like the focus part is actually I really a lot to that of like you you do want to make sure you your primary function is as clearly defined as possible and then as optimize as possible IT.

Also, we had this conversation a little bit in the car on the way of the quantum sute. And when you told me the number of people on your team, I IT really changed a lot of the way that I think about the strategy of how I run my Operation. Because from the outside, like your audience is huge and you have multiple channels and you're like making so many different kinds of work.

And to know basically, basically, what I remember you saying is like we have a small number of full time people that are really excited about the things that they are working on. And that I think is pretty different than the way that a lot of people grow, which is, you know, we need a person to do this. We're going to like like there's a lot of contracting.

There's lot of like part time work. There's a lot of like sort growth to do new things. Yes, that results in like a wide uh, many persons Operation at a part time level that makes that that can work great.

But IT requires people to manage that, which is another body of work, which is either you or is more people and for me personally like what I was most excited about um and what talking to you almost gave me my oh that works like permission to do is to hire a very small number of people who are really excited about the show, really committed to huge, are Better than me at their thing and therefore like our conversations, our management sometimes like you how much people get pay like progressive career progression. But most of the time IT is like they're pushing me and inspiring me and they are running their their part of the Operation and that has just felt creatively like where we're building something together that feels really exciting. I'm not spending I when I talk about my time distribution, I very little of IT is in people management, which is I think .

important to preserve yeah as I think one of the things I generally, I think, is creature. But at any job, we are making stuff. But if you try to make more stuff, the quality typically has to go down.

And if you try to make Better stuff, the quantity typically has to go down. And so you know you're doing well when you're able to like caught off the ARM one or two of the arms and those people's functions are growing way back on what they would ever do. If I was just you trying to do eight things at once and then you're able to actually do more and Better at the same time, then you know you hitting something like well and it's working. So so I like I think the philosophy is there and the strategies is there. So I like, I like all think it's one.

Well, I got this comment that is the chAllenges like how to improve either quantity or both at the same time. I got this comment recently that was like, your videos are so highly produced, why don't you make more of them?

You you answer the question yourself. You've really answered your question. Yeah, I feel that a lot.

So what's next for clear? What is the is IT? Obviously, you do want to make Better, you do want to make more.

You do want to give up the rains a little bit of some of the stuff, but do you picture more topics? Is that another channel? Or is IT just the of a grail video that you want to make that you've been thinking about for a long time?

Let me come back to that because I would love to have an answer to say. And just like see if there's someone in the world, you can make a video possible. Just come back to that one um in terms of what's next, you know if you would ask me just two years ago when I was at box, I would have had an answer that basically sounds well, i'm going to do this for a little while and then i'm going to know that will give me the opportunity to go do this.

And then IT sort of was like attacking against the wind and which I think is very often the way that careers naturally progress. I think that's great. But now it's just this amazing feeling.

I don't do you have this like, I I just want to do this. I want to do this for years, and I want to make this so much Better. Like, I think the huge as a channel is just getting started.

And the idea of this show is this genuinely optimistic, journalistically, rigorous show about tech, for me, feels like I could IT just has so much room to grow. Like this is we've hit a million in a Better year and a half. We had a million, like maybe two weeks ago.

I would like one point to something now. I just like feels like it's just IT feels like it's just getting started and we're building this momentum. And so again, like I I don't have the second channel idea yet.

I don't have whatever I would love to figure out long term like what these of products are that I might want again, involved with. I love the two, five ones. I think that that's inspiring for what someone can grow into. But for now, I just this, I just want to do this. And that freedom within constraints is feels incredible creatively.

I think what happens is you start making the thing you are always hoping to make. And your taste for what you're hoping to make is just a little bit above what you're making and you sort of develop your skills like I also took out classes and editing, but I didn't learn a ton from IT. So you get all this real world experiencing, you get Better and Better, and you're able to try new things.

And then your skill catches up to your taste. But your taste the entire time was also advancing because you saw what other people are doing and you got other ideas and you had future ideas and are your tases ahead. And that goal post keeps moving forward and keeps you improving over time.

And I think as long as you are looking forward at your taste of what, I think this can keep growing, this can keep getting Better. And I want to make a video that kind of like this someday and have ideas that I can execute on someday in the future. As soon as I get this figured out, I can do this as long as you're moving forward like that. Then I think everything's in the right place, which is how i've hoped to keep IT for like the last ten years and hopefully another ten.

That's my biggest question for you actually is like for someone who. Is not just pursuing success creatively on youtube, but is also pursuing one.

What advice would you give? Um the the thing we mentioned earlier about focus being key is is huge. And then I would also stress to not externally set any like criteria, especially it's like a schedule or a format or anything like that because I I do see that as a way to optimize.

And I think what a lot of people end up trying to do is like, uh, we want to optimize and like figure out what the algorithms doing and like start making more stuff so we can feed into the recommendation system. And I think the second you start to get on that treatment, the read more speed ots turned up that like opens the door for like eventually burning out. And I think if i've never had a schedule for anything other than this podcast for as long as i've been making content and the podcast is like we can just sit down to chat and it's out every week, so it's great.

But I think keeping IT flexible and finding little ways to not reinvent everything but reinvent parts of the show and reinvent parts of what you're making over time, uh, that never gets old like that's fun no matter what. What part of the show you're tweaking, you'll get to like year five, you're like, you know what I should try differently in what we can totally revamp right now and you'll just think of something and you'll see something new and and that taste keeps going forward. And I think that's that's the best advice I could give us to just keep the taste a little bit ahead of what you're doing.

Yeah, I have one last question OK. How fast can you type the alphabet? Let's go. Are you ready for? Let go. Do you have a typing test? As you may have heard on the way from podcast, every guest gets a choice of keyboard and you just got a type a, thus as fast as you.

What is, what is the fastest .

time anyone has had on, on? Do you want to know who are the number of both? really? Yeah, okay.

I got right for the top. I mean.

what if I told you .

the average with that?

I OK our first place is tom Scott. Buy a lot.

Oh my god.

Tom Scott was a almost a full second ahead of a second place at three point five, five, five seconds, which is absurd. I know I should type the off about that fast, but I think our averages closure about five and a half, six and half seconds. Watch again sounds crazy, but when you type A Z, you be surprised.

Sometimes we have a macbook keyboard here. We also have A U, S, B, Y. yeah. So we've got your keyboard set up here. You've you elected to use i'm going to show the show the audience who is gone with the the macbook pro keyboard but also the top is a keyboard. Uh, we give everyone three tries and you asked for the core record out of the bath. I'm just going to announce that tom Scott got in three point five five seconds, which is insane, but lots of people all over the leader board, three full choice. Whether ever you're ready, i'm pointing my mike at your keyboard.

Yeah, to see. All right. Wow.

I can do Better.

Kay, what is the first try? First tries for three was five point three seconds. I can Better OK more.

really. thank.

Wow, jesus, the same place, right? one. Number two, four point two seconds.

Guarantee the spot on the leaderboard. I am off the little board already. Finally, mars already kicking off a little bird. If you want to do Better, you've got one.

Okay.

are a more caffeine. Here we go.

I'm like .

shaking, okay? And it's more fun to .

take stuff seriously. So I know like yeah.

yeah. I think people about.

Okay, ready.

There IT is for, so I think the second time was the fastest right, which was like four point two. I'll get the official number, okay? A four point two, six six is the best time.

A second place, second place on a liter's ard kicks me off. I no longer have a podium position. I wouldn't want anyone else to kick me off the podium.

Thank you for joining us.

If you guys haven't already subscribed a huge of true on youtube, do IT I don't know how you got this far in the episode, didn't do that already, but it's all a time youtube can search, clear his name or huge true. And we leave the link to the quantum computing video that we did in a show now. So I think that's a pretty good place to start.

It's nominated for streaming.

It's nominated first streaming and will find out shortly after this goes live if I want or not. So that's tty cool. That's pretty cool. We're competing against R.

B, collaborating with the rock.

so. We ve got nominated. So that's pretty sick, right?

That's pretty cool. Thanks for watching and get guys next week. See you later.

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