CyanogenMod and the Death of the Android ROM
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listen to protests.

What is up? People of the internet. Welcome back.

I know this is a midweek episode, but it's a bonus episode and it's another long form episode. Do the airborn. That's right.

That's right. We all love along for episode. Anyway, we're back. We will have our regular scheduled programing at the end of the week as usual. But just wanted to pick this .

little but for you guys so you guys exit and very .

so to spice .

up this episode, there is trivia throughout yeah you never know when you might hear this sound.

O the trivia sound.

that's the trivia sound.

just like draw the above. Okay, it'll be happening .

through out the story. Any time that David mentioned something, I might just play this. And there will be a trivia question that you guys have to answer. Okay, you will win something .

at the end. No, no.

no.

no.

no.

You will win something. But spice IT up a little bit. You guys are both starting with twenty points OK. And every time you hear once again this sound. And you can bet which wait, you can wager points based .

on how confident you are about what was just being .

question.

So we all in every time.

i'm pushing zero every time.

So David is talking, talking. He's telling a story, telling a story. And then all of a sudden, and you guys place your bets, David, ask a question.

and there you go. This is gonna be like in school when the teacher calls, you are like, I just zone after .

last five days. OK.

i'm going to be legal. S, yeah, you got ta snap at me if you.

Yeah, all right. So I think we're gonna get right into IT. And as usual, in the way that we get into these things, we got to start with a lot of context history lesson.

That's right. okay. So we're d we're David back pretty far into the past to start IT off.

Do you guys know the website? X da developers, course I do. Yes, what would you say? X da .

developers, man. I mean, that's kind of like the form of the og forms of, I mean, I associated with android. So forums for developers, software, uh, ROM, tweet phones, all these types of fun things. I was, I was, I was much more in X, D, A back. And I want to say.

like the .

two thousand nine to two thousand fifteen.

thirty years, yeah saw that era between android being birth and now and being noted today yeah yeah yeah okay well that's right. Um X A currently and was before a very big roaming site. Um for those who don't know what that means, what roaming means, it's a website where you can go and you can take your devices that you are using on a day basis and dive really deep into modifying the software for those devices.

right? Rooming is kind of a return, right? Because bomb stands for read only memory and you're solving a custom wrong. You not like installing custom read only memory onto your device. That does not only make sense, but IT is basically a turn that came about because people are installing modified software onto the not actually read only memory parts of their device. But it's just thing that came out because they were installing things to a place where you're not meant to modify the software, the storage that's malon h he wrote for X A for a very long period of time and he's kind of known as the guy around the internet who digs into android, finds all the new features and stuff ah yeah you guys probably have met before, right?

I don't know if i've met him, but I ve definitely seen that work. Yeah where every time there is a new version of android code that drops somebody, he's gone through the code and found the newest reference to things. And IT becomes for every future yeah I mean .

that yeah I feel like I know X D A much more nowadays as the website that people like him post the reality, greedy of things. And I am sure we've talked about stuff he are in yeah.

dozens of he does really deep dives in the android stuff. Do you guys actually know what X D A in X D developers is supposed to refer to?

Feels like a trivia question.

Uh, I was waiting .

for the sound. Um is IT .

really no? Oh, no.

Is d samper developer? no. developer? no. I don't know.

What does that for ever phone, no, but all I got.

you need guesses.

I know I have zero guesses.

Okay, so X D A is actually relating to the o two. X D A O two is a tele communications Carrier in europe. And they had these, like P, D, S, that they called X, D, because they were like, extra or cool. I don't know if you saw about anything with x, and I just sounds like P.

D, A, but with an x, yeah.

P, D, A. With an x, okay, yeah. I was very much like an early form of the smart phone, like we don't necessarily consider those devices smart phones. They were pda even though personally, I think that we should call smart phones now P D S, because they are personal digital assistance more than they are just smart versions of phones.

Yeah, that's funny. Because now eat the phone part is the least, least used parts used.

Yeah, yeah. So these people want to mess around with these xd phones, right? There were these early pda that were a lot different from modern smartphones, mostly because they were like, really closed down the iran windows mobile and IT wasn't very modifiable.

So these people wanted to modify them. So they're just like tweaking and trying to get performance benefits out of IT. And this group kind of comes together to start sharing all of these twists, cornels and roms they're making.

right? truly. Question number one. In two thousand three, this group of x da developers started taking around with their xd phones, adding features and all this stuff. What european city was this happening in a london, b barcelona, c oslo or d instagram?

I guess I would, I would like to wait, or five of my points.

I would like to wait. Do I get to the question again? The answers? five. O, K, okay.

yeah.

Our reporting to the camera are right.

Flip in in. Read what .

got said. Oslo.

I said.

bar a back to both the answer d amsterdam.

Right now you have fifteen points OK.

All these little x da developers get together in amsterdam, and they are modifying their windows mobile P, D S, which they call X D S. And they figure we can be the only ones that want to do this, right? There's going to be a lot of people.

There's a lot of nerds on the planet. They have these pds, and there are probably also modifying them. And none of us are talking to each other, right? IT sounds like the secret history internet episode where everyone realized that could be talking to each other.

yeah, yeah. And and like learning more because, one, everyone's doing separate things in getting to there. If you can skip the first five step exactly, someone.

you can share information. So they decided to launch this website called x da. Developers aside to mess, suffer and all the stuff. This ended up being a huge hit really fast. They grew to one hundred thousand members in three years, which is wild.

And keep in mind, this is just the o 2x da phones， one Carrier, one type of of, like pda, and they get to one hundred thousand people that want to tweak their devices in three years. That's actually kind of credible. And back in the day two, that's a lot. Yeah that's between two thousand three and two thousand six ah which is wild. Now all of these xd a devices were made by one company um this company called high tech computer corporation that's a horrible name is IT high tech computer.

They should read me IT.

I mean, maybe this is a good name. This is very literal.

Maybe they should like short, what's the action for? Be like hi tech. Let me try hi tech.

H, J. C, baby.

that's a .

great idea. Computer .

corporation, Better without ever presenting that that I meant.

yeah, for the there is that there, uh, if you see, doesn't really make phones anymore, but they have made on the smart phones of the era. So yeah, really, really old school HTC stuff being made back then. This kind of show the scale at which people wanted to modify their devices, right? There's this quote from bill joy, who is the cofounder of sun mr.

Systems, that all the smartest people don't work for us. They work for somebody else. And X, D, A kind of a show that was the case, right? Because they were launching these, well, X, A developer show that was the case, because they were launching these X, D, A, P, D S.

And these people were just adding all these features on top and they were just like making them run faster and they were making them do this. And it's like, why can the company just do that? We don't have all the smartest people who are the most excited in the background of all this, in the background radiation of silicon valley, there's a man named rich miner.

He's working at orange ventures. And if you don't know, orange is another telecom company us in europe similar to like varian tt uh and richest company at the time was called the wild fire communications. IT was this very early form of basically theory.

Yeah, do you know about this company? You seem like you know about this company. This might be a total coincidence, but there was a phone called the HTC wildfire as that have anything to do with this? I don't know. OK O.

Like crazy enough the wild fire ended up being what a lot of people considered like the godfather of theory. IT was a very early digital assistant um from one thousand nine ninety four voice space assistance oh ninety four which is crazy serious.

had that long and .

still yeah exactly um we gave IT not interpret to you but I can .

come in with a confirmation that the HTC while fire is not named after while fire communications but in the most two thousand eleven turn of events ever IT was named by a facebook poll two thousand eleven man .

what at a time so rich .

cells wildfire communications .

to orange um and he became an orange employee and they bought IT because they wanted to offer this personal digital st system voice system to their subscribers um little fun fact they shut IT down in a couple of years because no one was using IT o but because he was acquired by orange, he became an orange employee and he quickly joined the orange ventures team.

And a lot of these big corporations have these venture arms that just allow them to like invest in other companies that would be good for the company, right? And over the next couple of years, all of the sort of like smart pda phones that are coming out, our windows mobile phones and windows mobile phones and windows mobile phones. Yeah.

exactly.

And I just got a little worried when we were doing that because um I felt like, boy, if if microsoft owes the mobile phones space, were going to repeat some of the things that we saw in the laptop space where there's one word processor, one sprats you like a felt like we might not have an innovative .

platform if if the platform is take controlled. That's rich minor. We got him on the phone for this story now because rich's working orange ventures um he has the opportunity to invest in some companies for orange, right because he kept seeing these windows mobile devices pop up over and over and over again.

He starts to get really interested in like device diversity of Operating systems because he just didn't want the same thing that happen in personal computing where everything got consolidate to like you've got IBM and you've got apple and windows releases windows and you can only use one application and get just not a good time right? Um so he's like, okay, if these pda are like early smart phones are growing out, we need to make sure that there's a lot of competition. And I don't just want to see two point out of the same thing.

So he said um or n ventures and he gets he gets interesting in projects like sva J E I think it's supposed to be pronounce savage. Um but it's it's an early like a java based O S for for devices like this, basically any OS that could create richer mobile experiences that were already available. Um and one of the companies that really cut his interest was this company called danger, who made a device called the danger hip top, also known .

as how much do you .

guys anger hip top?

Yeah the danger hip top. What is the other more popular name for that device?

You guys both have fifteen points.

are waging two points yeah .

you start waging lower .

yeah i'm waiting one point.

one point. All right, right. Do you .

think IT is danger?

Danger hip top.

what do I think is .

the more common name for the danger hip time?

Pretty sure this was already attribute question.

I don't even know.

Alright, flip man, laptop. I just wrote laptop and beeper, no, no. Um this is a device via company called danger, right? So he was also called the sidewalk ke, the team mobile. I was .

called the hip top.

The hip top I knew. So danger seemed like a cool and smart choice to fund because they were doing something really new and cool, right? Like everyone really like the site cake. Did you have? Did you guys ever use the site cake?

I just saw them on T, V. All .

the I did, they did pop off. Yeah, I slip the cool.

There were multiple generations of um there really awesome mr. Mobile when phones were fun retrospective on the psychic and psychic one three like four which is really do you should watch that um anyway, rich decided he's going to invest in danger through orange ventures and he's working pretty closely with them because around that time, one of the guys that was running danger was named andy rubin heard of IT. Yeah, we'd been building this O S.

For the danger hip top or team mobile to cake, because I had its own O S. This danger O S and IT was cool. And the O S for the psychic was pretty innovative, like IT was very different from all the like windows mobile offerings at the time, you know. And so danger decided india. Danger was like, I kind of want to make another OS and I don't know, it's probably one of those things were like you make one you just want to make something else you want to do again and again and again, right? And so what was the OS that andy was originally going to make supposed to be made .

for type of device markets? You have thirteen.

Andrew, you ve got fourteen. Me for, I know this time .

you guys .

want with you two points or no.

I do. If there is most more choice, i'll get this. A man, I have to go one point because I don't know right now.

Remember, it's andy rubin. Yeah, you know, you know, andy rubin, yeah. Andy rubin. Andy A K. Android rubin.

yeah. Andy rubin, the guy that produce the B. T. boys.

What was that was android for?

Times running down.

no pressure.

I know i'm wrong because he's thinking so hard. And yes, it's something very like what feels .

obvious lip hearing this out.

I know IT.

I just start a tablet.

your airplane. I wrote a plant.

so don't remember I was hope it's on airplane, 嗯 OK。 So we ve got this rich, rich miner quote. So andy had this kind of idea of of O S S for mobile devices.

He actually started thinking about nos for camera. He originally started thinking about making this O S for a camera. Yeah, me too. Yeah and then he was like the phone, the west for the phone. So I invested in dangerous, a part of venture fundi, started an orange uh, clock, andy, about what he was doing with the android and and had my thesis about why I thought we needed, and Carriers needed, no ims needed.

an open mobile phone. O S is supposed to .

A A .

tightly controlled mobile phone west, like we might get with nokia, like you might get with microsoft.

which was like, yes, we definitely need an O S for phones, right? This is kind of an aside. But you guys realized how much much sucked to be a developer back in the, like, P, D, A feature phone. N, S, P.

an APP developer.

You couldn't just, like, upload your APP to an open mark place. You had to like go to individual Carriers because a lot of Carriers had phones that only came out on that Carrier like the o two X D A or the t mobile mobile. Hey, we're building this APP that does this thing you think you could may be put IT on the t more .

so I can we be blowhard please?

Yeah and then t moah would basically be blowhard and then t mobile would be like, what what's in if for us?

Yeah, that's terrible.

Yeah so it's like no way to like how are you going to be insentient ed, is to build apps if that's the process that you have to go through. That's awful. So rich and andy sort of also thinking about lake, how do we like encourage development here? Because its sucks to have the the Carriers have all of the control we really need to push this through.

So rich kids really helped about android because he's like, yeah, open O S. We should make an open O S. We should make this O S. That doesn't just like you don't build this O S for this particular phone that goes on a particular Carrier.

You build O S that can be used on multiple things so that you don't just have HTC phones and you don't just have danger phones. You know you can just make IT for everything and everyone can just build their own abcde at all works and it's open, sorted the stuff um and so he gets tied about this. He joins in the enduring team as a co founder and they start getting to work on android for the next two years or so.

In two thousand and five, there are trying to raise money for the company because they have to make money. So they are looking for their series a um and for those who don't know when you are start up, you can go around and get different rounds or series of funding basically like we're building this thing. Do you want to invest like if you invest IT basically keeps us around because we have the pair employees of the stuff.

Um so indian rich aren't actually look looking for injured to get like acquired. They just thought that I would be really dope to have this open. O S.

So they could go to hdc, and they could go to samsung, g, and they could go to L, G, motorola. Be like you guys should use R, O, S, and you can make pay us to use IT licensing fees and stuff. But entered the company. The OS maker is a separate CoOperation. They didn't really want to they be acquired, just wanted to race funding.

And they ended up going to google to can see you like, you know, if they could have a google phone that used the android OS, that would be pretty dut for their pitch deck because google is are already a huge company at this point time and they could go around and IT would be a lot easier for like them to get samsung r HTC r motorola interested. And we actually found this youtube video on the internet where rich says, and uh and as we went out and started to pitch, we will happen to be a google. Google was already funding the mozilla open source project at that point in time.

IT was kind of the thing were like a lot of the companies we're funding these open source projects because they didn't want like microsoft or any of these other giant tech corporations to have all the ownership and stuff because if you fund open source, then there's a lot more competition is not all consoler dated, right? So google, i've been going around and already trying to like help open source kind of get underway um so goods like yeah no, you need some help with that. We're going we're going to buy you so things start moving really fast after that.

Remember this is still two thousand five um and andy and rich on the team are building the thing the actually really great book by chat hush, my recommend called the android, the team that built the android Operating system that kind of details like the early years of them building this but then two years later it's two thousand seven. Do you guys remember what happened in two thousand and seven? I do.

Do you want to wage that?

Or just name something that happens, anything that happens in two thousand?

And what was the biggest thing that happened in tech? And he doesn't. Later.

everything I got markets you have twelve. So you're .

waygal ing and .

i'm waygal ing twelve and you also have twelve. How much you way during?

Oh, twelve right way they're .

going on deep in. You got IT. You're going on all for IT. They're all in. They're all in.

Let's see if IT will be shame of him wrong because I have points like, yeah, what happens .

when if .

we're both at zero .

and to rethink the game of buy back in .

all by back in?

That's an ipod, a .

phone and an .

internet communicator, an ipod.

a phone.

Are you get in? These are not three separate devices. This is one device.

And we .

are calling IT iphone today. Today apple is going to reinvent the phone.

It's because when you working about this before is like a revolution, how can we get more of things developing for her? This mark has like we are pretty close to like the iphone also. So where does I come in?

Yeah so the iphone gets launched and google like in the background, they're developing android. They had been developing android for two years. But yeah, who was arty like in process and they are like, okay, we need to turn up the heat because apple just launched this major thing.

And so the public data of android one plano launched on november fifth, two thousand seven, which was like immediately after couple months later, a couple months later because they were like IT doesn't matter that it's not done yet, just need to put out a beta for IT so that people start developing for IT because we need to get this in the hands of people. And and you have an update, all the stuff, very google thing to do. Yes, yeah, it's actually the body in two thousand. It's kind of what apple is now doing with the vision pro.

It's of goods doing with bard.

What microsecond .

on top of bar though I guess .

the whole oh it's it's kind of happening right now. We need to send IT oh yes moment ah you yeah the .

vision process is like this isn't out yet, but we need apps when IT is out. So please develop now. Right, right? That's kind of what google was doing because they didn't have any device.

There is no andred phone you just had to do on a computer, you know. So that launched on november fifty thousand seven and the first official android phone launched in september two thousand eight. And 我不在 放。

哼。

Everything I got just four.

and I here twenty four points .

and twenty of my twenty four.

There are two common names for the device that will accept both.

Really mad if this is right, but I think it's wrong. I think of missing something before and interest. I know .

markets Philippon .

read markets .

says HTC flash t mobile g one correct.

And I said they should see areas no.

but that .

they really gave .

that phone with a track ball .

and a keyboard. I screen, yeah, a weird mechanism is awesome. A huge predict. Yeah, it's cool. I wanted, want so bad.

So android officially out and on a phone in september two thousand eight, just a year after the iphone launches, even though I had been developed in the backend. Two thousand and five, actually, kind of sense. He doesn't.

three. Now I want to flip IT back to X, D, A for a second. Uh, keep in mind that they were founded specifically as a windows mobile mounting blog for the o two X D A and the o two X D A only which is wild. But that was writing on the wall, right? Like microsoft is kind of the last company that wants you to modify their OS anyway.

So was a very difficult to have like modify these o two phones um and then this new O S comes out from google of all companies which is the a huge tech company that is kind of founded on being open source and modified like everyone on X D A wants to just move to that, right that makes a lot of so I found a couple of different sources for this. Um but there's a blog post from xd developers from ten years ago called the history of x developers which is funny considering us from ten years ago. Yeah um and IT says that IT took until two thousand nine the next year for X D H to realize that they should be allowing android phones on the forms because this originally just for windows mobile phone.

But if you look back um there were people developing for the the H D C dream team ology one like pretty much immediately after I came out, yeah was called the dream, also H T C dream baby. yeah. Um anyway, as soon as that comes out, IT just starts buzzing like the android development is going. And there's kind of this idea that like they had to rush IT out because of the iphone anyway, so was kind of unfinished. You know all these developers get their g ones that are just like model amazing.

And we're like .

to we you courage driven. No, I mean, android was awesome, right? Like the iphone when I first came was really expensive at the never an APP store was super locked down. And then you have this other option where you were encouraged to modify your device. There was this awesome, like launch phone that came out that everyone was buying, a super cool for perspective .

of modifying. And the iphone software is called jail breaking yeah .

that's how yeah pretty worked out yeah gary yeah yeah um and always sudden all of these roms start getting put on next year, right? Because when you take android and you start modifying IT yourself, you can call that your own ROM. You know, you're making a look the way you on.

You're adding the features that you are. It's not like all these people on X, D, A or like working on one project. They're going on a bunch of different projects.

So there's all of these different realms coming out. There's slim roms. They're paranoid android, there's dirty unicorns.

I use both. That's right. That's right. Wacs throw bags now, yeah. And people are like, people are just flashing stuff every single day, right? Like that. And keep in mind, when you flash a new room to your phone, IT completely wipe your phone of all apps and all memory and all photos and all data. This is the time .

that I really good at setting up the phones. I was flashing new roms and new updates, like every time there's a new dot version update, like paranoid android flashing new current, new on like every couple days .

and early wipe everything. There were some rms that were bigger that had that had teams that we were working on them that would do nightlights would had new features every single night. And in the morning, you would wake up and you would flash your phone and would wipe all of your data .

and you have some light performance boost. Yeah.

be there was awesome. And yeah, but there was one ROM that would kindly change the way that we thought about android ramming overall and the drama that would unfold because of this ROM in the tech that was legendary. I love this drama, this dramas epic. But we will get to IT after the great.

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For instance, what does that mean to start buying and using AI at work? How much is that costing companies? What products are they buying? And most importantly, what are they doing with IT? And of course, podcasts? Yes, the thing you're listened to right now, well, it's increasingly being produced directly by companies like venture capital firms, investment funds and a new crop of creators who one day want to be investors themselves.

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you get your podcast. Welcome back to continue our story. It's two thousand eight.

The HTC dream t mobile gone just came out in in november of two thousand eight which again is like immediately after the t mog one come out um this username jesus freak emerged on X D A nice but freak is spelled F R E K E which do you know what that means? No, what is freaking? What is freking mean? What is freaking? But are F R E K E?

How much guys .

wants to wait her out with four points?

I always one point .

um flashing .

flashing around. No.

I want so veg that is probably right. I rote.

No, yes.

he was ready to say no. So phone freaking is something that people used to do with payphones, where they would place sounds into the payphone, which would allow them .

to make free phone call because each number is a specific.

didn't to pay, didn't for the the phone if you were able to play .

the right sounds is all happening on a payphone as you're picking IT up and it's .

listening and when you dial does not turn the speaker .

on and that's that's how .

any time yeah like my is 1。 By nine button phone, I see twelve buttons. Yeah, the rose are all one tone, and colleges are all one tone. So you is actually each button playing two tones and harmony.

By the ordinance, the frequency interaction between those tones is picked up at the other end that IT is connected to a logic board puts them all together. It's alsons. So you can dial a phone just by putting .

a speaker up to a phone.

This is only like landline because I think a lot of people .

listening that's not worth talking about. But I literally believe I ve heard .

they used to make these little devices. And you would could go up to a payphone and like, call someone by just playing into the payphone for free. That is, yeah, what is up? Wow, anyway, yeah, jesus freak, which is a fun little play on words on real.

yeah. So this user emerged on X, D, A as the quickly as the maintainer of the most popular android rome at the time. And again, the H D C dream came out in october of two thousand eight.

He was the most popular one on X, A. By november of doors. So he spent all of his time just immediately going, and Robin.

this phone, right? And this is people just in their free time.

It's not like a full time job. This is just because you want IT to. You're not paid demand on on X, D, A. Yeah, right. He's got this quote.

He basically says that a he period, his g ones that he was one of the first people to get one and he sort of had to play this cat mouse game because there was this infamous root bug that didn't allow him to. B root access. So he had try to figure out how to patch that bug to give him root access.

And he got root access. And then they updated IT, and I took a way, root access. And so he just starts basically going back and for but he had this awesome ROM out called J F. From that everyone just started using for the g one.

By the way, root on your phone means that you have access to the root directory, which is this primary folder we're like everything is stored from um and the reason that you usually don't have no access on a device is because it's like if if you delete system thirty two on your computer, it's like the primary folder that everything else branches from. You could break everything. You could just make everything with taxes.

So yeah which we've all .

done from time to time. Uh and then in may two thousand nine, jesus freak was hacking away, making J A. From and this user named sig en made their first blog post on X D, X with the title synergy mod, optimizing the crap out of android at one point five, release two. And effectively they were just making a bit of modifications to jesus freak ROM and enhances IT. They were forking the wrong.

interesting. Yes, they didn't fork android. They were jesus fix wrong.

exactly. interesting. Yeah, that's why it's called android. I've got android open source project jf from another four sand and mud. So the users name was sienne.

and their ROM was called the huge that have all these cool things that you could hack on and, you know, to open source. And with a little bit of work, you could build IT for this phone and actually like run IT and use IT every day.

So that's definitely conduct A K A V science energy. We were finally able to get in touch with her for this episode IT was very hard to check her now um but thanks to shen for getting us in contact. If you don't know who shen is, he works at HTC on vive and he seems to know literally everyone somehow on the show .

before all on the .

show before he's really asking because he knows everyone that is shine right there. If I listeners, we have a giant cardboard, get out of change. But a quick trivia question, what was shen's first job, guys.

to what are you doing?

Like first job ever?

We know what the first job was.

First job on .

his linton.

on a dog Walker.

I have, no, I guys want to. I, I told me waiting after that. sure. Did they have .

to wait for this?

This is really hard. Hint, sounds great.

Yeah, he's told me .

we've been talking about off entry time.

Yeah, okay. I'll go with what I was going to guess them. okay. Major.

two points, two .

points.

Angel later, two points. Many years .

interest a year.

That furiously, so innocent. I don't think I am wrong, but I wanted to be right.

I really want to know .

what you wrote. You already. D, A moderate moderator. X, A developed reporter on both.

Yeah.

he was a the X, D, A T, V producer from, yeah producer .

used to watch .

X T V videos.

Anyway, that was a quick IDE. Um more stephane quotes.

I don't know for like someone who's an engineer you I hate we never have a product like there's a bug in that and and I can't fix IT like like I I wish you you know like I can help you with this. Please let me you know I mean that I understand why the world doesn't work that way, unfortunately. But maybe I could be Better if I did a at the time, everything was really new.

So um things performed really portly, to say the least right there. There was a lot of things that you can do to increase the performance. So um you know I knew a lot about that from like working on like data center systems and subject that and you know like really like tuning linux and all that. So um you know I just really kind of dug in there and try to make something that went faster and felt like a nicer thing to use.

You could just make IT Better. You can just make Better. It's like this, but I yeah right.

So especially if if especially if you're engineer and you're just like using these products and they just have all these issues and it's like you could you just want to be able to do that? But company doesn't let you mess with IT. That's frustrating.

So you get android and it's like it's amazing. You can just you can just make your device Better. You can just do whatever you want to IT. So jez frick and Sandy are kind of working on their own stuff.

Sandy mode was a fork of the jf from and then jf from was a very little thing and then on August twenty years of two thousand nine, jesus freak decides it's a ultimate work. He just kind of call IT quit he's like, this is I just don't want to do this anymore i'm kind of board um but he does do one last thing on his way out. He recommends that everyone using his wrong, which remember was the most popular wrong for the g on exe developers, move over the .

sign of more say you mentioned drama before and I assume the drama was going to stem from so much off of was there their friends?

Yeah yeah their friends so from here and and modest arts growing superfast, Stephanie publishes the whole thing to get up so other people can add to IT and mess with IT, right? Because usually it's just one person up updating and you download, but then you put some github so that people can like they can fork IT, they can they can add things to the core, the core build. And everyone just starts like on this unofficial al team.

And i'm responsible for this feature and maintaining this phone and you're responsible for maintaining this phone a cook because there just be new phones that come out. You're one of the first people to buy IT. You're like I I really want to get sign and more on this.

Oh, it's not available yet. I'm going to be the personal X D, A that maintains scientist model this device. Yeah and I was just no one's getting played.

Heroes ho heroes, absolutely the heroes of the the people so this is going at the community thriving. Everything's great. Um I just remember loving, loving the roman community so much because everyone so friendly. Just flash all these different roms and IT IT was amazing.

Um but then in two thousand nine there was this event that happened that the media debt sano gate and basically sina got a season assist letter from google which is scary and Stephanie starts freaking out right. She's like down. This could be the end.

I am scared. Like maybe I should shut this down. Like imagine you in a bunch of friends are just kind of like doing this fund project for no reason and then some company comes out of the gay and send you a season .

this letter yeah like if you had a website I called league of legs and then just like yeah company .

just yeah I on the other never did thing that the lives say but sana and mod was a real thing um but basically the problem in the reason that google set them the season this is letter was that they were distributing google apps, specifically the android market um and this one thing happened where sign native man had distributed a newer version of android market version on one point six before google even publicly released.

Do you know how that .

happened because he gets put in A O S P, but google had not put IT like on a device yet. And so they were really upset about that. Yeah that's .

understandable.

Can I happen here? Yeah, boys. It's important to note that at this point in history there's a very, very, very monkey line between A S, P, like the android open SOS project and then google apps at this point, like google apps are getting shipped on every version of the open android project yeah but whether or not google apps are open source themselves, yeah, is not clear.

Yes, defined.

I remember that moment. I was very unclear. And so basically this, uh, lawyer just comes and is like, hey, it's against our terms of service to ship our apps, right? Because O, S, P is open source and you can ship A S P, but you can't be shipping .

google apps for two.

gmail.

a google place, apple APP stare ID, android place at .

the market market.

sorry. yeah. So everything .

ended up working with google on this. They did talk IT through IT not being a scarier. He thought I was going to be like he thought he was. That was the end. They were going to shut her down. But I kind of was just a like stop like distributing our apps, but like we're not going to stop you from making you're wrong, like keep doing your thing.

So it's at that point in time where every time you romped something or you added you flashed around, you had to both install RAM and you had to decide load um something called the gaps, which is the google apps package. Yeah so you would flash this rum onto your phone, but you didn't have any google play services or any google APP. So it's GTA useless.

So you had to force the google apps on to your phones that you could have google play services. You can use gmail and google maps and all of this different stuff. So so many memories.

Yeah, he was a whole process like I got a little bit harder to run my phone. I just took a longer and was just two flashes. That two flashes, that was a big deal.

So lucky google of left sm alone. After that, they hadn't one after any of the other ROM developers, but sign and one at that point was the biggest. So they kind of just made an example out of them. And stephani says like IT was probably just like one lawyer that just got a little trigger happy, you know, just needed something to do.

I mean, like my heart definitely sank when ever I got IT. Why are they coming after us? Like, you know, this is like a you know like, know we're helping them. People from the community are like, you know, submitting all this code back to google and you know we are like, you know, we're creating features that they are like copying and including, you know in in android later on and said that .

was what struck me the most because I remember there would be features that you'd see in santa's motor, some random mod, and then one and a half versions later that would show up in android. Yeah, stream shortcuts or little settings, tweet or something. See that.

I'm very confident. I made a video about how that kept happening, right? Are these modifications of android just kept getting swallow into what google readership? Yeah it's kind of like, sure rocking, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

It's like we're just take your idea because all the time of people don't work for us, we don't have .

to do the bleeding edge like modifications ourselves. We can just see what catches on. And once one of catches on well enough seems .

like people really like this through, they are more kind of out of know where Stephanie lost her job um which was kind of rough for her. But he ended up moving to seattle because he got a call from no other than jesus freak. Jesus freak was working for samsung at the time and a couple of other people that had been robbing on x da.

And he's like, hey, we're doing this work for samsung, kind of have us in this like innovation zone. And this was like the peak point of the samsung versus iphone kind of fight when I was like the samsung phones were really the flagship android phones, right? So samsung g was like, we need to, like, work up.

Are our war chest against apple. We have to come up with as many features as possibility that people really want to use samsung phone. So basically just recruit a bunch of the motors from the xd a forms. It's not that this is a pretty smart thing to do here.

And I think that this is actually one of the reasons why samsung O S, samsung mos, samsung's O S, has like a zillion features that you never really use, right? There are videos all over the internet of, like all of the things that when you, I has, that you had no idea you can do that built into one. You, I and I think a lot of those are a result of these x people driving tons .

of people to come in and work for them. Yeah, for anything that will stick.

Yeah yeah. Just make anything stick is really awesome. A year into this, Stephanie is still working on sand age modern, her free time. I still have no idea how he managed to like workable time for samsung and sign on every night and put out nights.

least every night. Okay, someone so surprised samsung letting her that right. Like, if I were samsung to be like, I want all of your best stuff yeah.

right yeah we asked her about that and he said that he was just kind of like, we don't talk about IT OK yeah, just call the cool .

as something ever sounded.

I know ww, this was like back in my galaxy three days. Yeah yeah. So she's working for same and she's ring time and money at the same time.

SHE SHE gets this call from this man named Carol pay. I didn't know where never. And he also gets a call from a man named curt mic master. You guys probably know Caroli he's somehow still in the vanguard lar of the taxi because he runs a comment called nothing.

A man stays releve.

He stays relevant yeah at the time he was this upper manager guy for OPPO. And he calls up Stephanie in his lake. What do you think about making a phone that has snagged in mind as the O.

S. And I think that he was just like this would be really a community focus thing, could be really cool. Like we could make a high energy phone. She's actually been wanting to make a sand and first phones specifically.

Ly, because you would look at the iphone and you see that it's like it's the full stack phone, right? Apple is making the OS and the hardware and you really want to be able to build things into hardware. And Stephanie had been frustrated that he couldn't build Sandy mom through the hardware. SHE didn't have controlled that SHE only add, control the software.

And IT was like all these, all of these phones, and you you can only do so much, what? Like third party hardware, right? So they started this conversation, and they started to work together, and they end up making a limited edition phone that is running science engine mod for the chinese market. What was the name of that phone?

How much you guys want .

to wait .

you ten points.

And remember, this is carl pay who is working up at the time that gives you little head.

And also remember, this phone had a non version. They just special.

I review this. I should be .

more confident .

about five, five.

My half shire.

i'm half sure well, the thing i'm alf share about, i'm also half sure that the correct thing and then I also think there might be something other than okay.

I think I I think I know what you wrote based on, okay, I want to hear, yeah, I put up. What do you think I know? I think you apple find one.

No, okay, I want one plus eggs. No.

I rote upper .

and one I thought .

like .

maybe IT IT makes more sense. There was an upper phone, cause didn't one plus was not yet to think that you this is yeah so .

at the exact same time is this um SHE gets a call from this man in curt mic master and there's a quote from Stephanie that's like this thing happens in my life for like a lot of stuff just happens at the exact same time we had carl calling her out asking the microphone and he gets a call from this guy name curt now current is an interesting character um you know where I is always making that joke that she's a tenets fin tech founder in CEO. Yeah, I just hope when anyone .

talks about me in the future, they don't say so. This other guy was an interesting character. IT IT does not .

sound like it's red flag stars. Ky, no, yeah, he is that really curie fellow. Kt dig had a few big hits for all of the companies that he was founding on a early basis. Uh, he actually was the cofounder of boost mobile, which l is still uses for summary .

on let's go baby, where my boost customers at, i'll see you on the streets.

It's a page. You got a phone service that was actually pretty successful. Friend, he didn't work for tony.

He founded a water bottle company called core water. He LED digital distribution for his edges, that ring tone and wallpaper. F decades ago, uh, he did work for saga.

He found ded, a mobile game studio. He found A, A multi platform trans media consumer experience, whatever the heck that means, his list of companies is really long cereal. Fn, very long cereal founder. Anyway, the story behind him contacting Stephanie goes here just about the galaxy three, which.

by the way, freaking amazing .

phone that was, like, so good IT. I was so excited about IT, but he bought a galaxy three and he thought, he thought I was the first android phone that could really come close to competing with the iphone, right? Because I was so good, had many good back.

cool. But he got IT and he was really annoyed because I didn't have the latest android version on IT. So the latest android version at the time was jelly been, but I had the one right before IT.

And specifically, samsung used to take forever class to push major android up is a big touch with fault. Also same song ghai this U X called touch with um for those that don't know what touch was, is IT was samsung's U X at the time for their smart phones. And IT was really bad.

And tell how bad IT was by the fact that he was named. Touch was, yeah, just think about how bad IT must be for people to call.

The touch was the thing. Yes, they literally rebranded IT to one U I. Because touch has so much bad. Yeah.

do remember the default touch with wallpaper being the water, or that was one of that. I was thinking about the one that was like a cloudy sky. Then theyd have the giant weather with IT, which was a different picture of a two separate pictures of .

the sky overlaid HTC .

did that first HTC annoying ly pying near the big I love the big gtc weather rigid. Um anyway so he gets his phone's like this doesn't have of them like most reason reason of android. This is dumb like very same like taking so long so he finds out about ramming and he goes um and he downloads sign and mom for his galaxy and IT already had jelly been on IT IT was more stock android than touch wiz was that was just Better in pretty much every perceive of way um and he's immediately obsessing IT with IT um being a ten ex fin tech founder in CEO.

He calls steph anane pretty much the story goes that he calls Stephen hane that night the night that he flashed IT on his phone he found her on linked in, called her up and says, i'll get the money in b CEO U B C T O. So he saw an opportunity. He was like, this is really good.

Most android round are really bad. Most android ux is are really bad. We can make, we can make .

a religion out of this. And like twitter seems nice yeah about I buy IT yeah okay so but ironically, if you think about IT.

this is not that different from the story of android, right? When they originally pitched the android, they were going around trying to sell this open O S. To a bunch of handset manufacturers and now they're like android kinosling ks and everyone's like versions of android suck.

So what if we just made a good one and we give IT to everybody to use as a basis? You know that was kind of their pitch. Um so stephane seemed pretty into the guy idea because he wanted to make her own device.

Carl pay had just called about potentially making a new company that was based around her device, which is also cool and he was like, i'm a hardware guy, oppoa hardware company. We can make a new company that can be really, really good hardware and really good software. In court, I just showed up and IT seemed like the perfect kind of h meshing of like i'm an engineer, I don't want to deal with any other business stuff, but I do want to make my own phone.

Everyone else can kind of like do that stuff for me. Very quickly after that, snaggy mod kind of gets turned into science agent inc. And snaggy mod still existed. Yeah, right. Because OK there was a lot of weird, bad blood. And that was happening because the community was contributing to the moderate IT wasn't just Stephanie that was updating in as all these people they were adding to syntax mode and suddenly they're like they are making a CoOperation out of the work that we put into this wrong.

Yeah, you're the one making money potentially off of all the .

stuff that we've done. IT, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. IT wasn't great. But courts, big talent was a raising money and tons of money. And so he starts going around asking for venture funding, not to somewhere to android. And funny thing about this is they started getting funding from pretty much everyone had vested interest in making google control under at less right, because they didn't want google to have so much power over this thing that seem to be one of the major like O S S in the ecossais.

like one of the things that they develop their works they didn't want microsoft to .

have yeah history he does thing like IT happens again .

just does the same thing over and yeah yeah just repeats um so yeah microsoft invests cocos. There's a bunch of these big companies there. Is that ironic?

Yeah yeah so there's this kind of legion of like anti google, android companies that are alike. We want to take away google sheer power on this open Operating system, which kind of make sense if you're one of these other companies. So definitely made IT clear that he was still going to be offering scientists mod for free to any like science in mod.

right? There was going to be a difference between scienza mod and science and O S C N Y N O S was the thing that they would sell to a company that already had the hardware, but just wanted to, like, have good software that they could just ship. You would charge companies for that. And sand mod was like, if you're a regular person and you want to ROM your phone and throat and moon on your phone, you can do that for free.

And at this point, as he left samsung to start doing this venture.

SHE basically left .

samsung to do a lot of time to be, yeah, yeah. So they go .

around on the raising millions of dollars and funding. And IT was kind of convenient, right? Because carl pei already called and said, like, I can't want to start a company based on this, right? They did.

They they wanted to maintain control of sAnitation. So he's like, i'm going to start this spin off of abo called one plus, right? So he wants to start one plus but doesn't want to do software.

And stephani wanted to do hardware, but he only did software. So this kind of this perfect emerging. So they are they're getting funding and they already have a couple of clients.

Theyve got one plus. Theyve got they're sending deals with this company called blue out of florida and they were interested in him, signed on there. So the launch was like a pretty huge success. Um the one plus one came out with science OS on IT, which was like a pretty IT was a huge, huge launch. IT was kind of the original like poco phone situation that .

was the og IT was like enthusiast phones because when I think launch, you only knew about IT. If you were kind of following along, you're like, yeah okay, never going to make a phone. This new one plus company theyve never made anything before like and they're not in Carriers like you have to know about this .

stuff to see that this one is launching IT IT hit pretty hard yeah IT was this community oriented device um and IT was three hundred dollars flagship build and specks and everything about IT was pretty amazing 哦。

And I forgot about that. That was that phone.

The original one plus one was to ninety nine. But they also had a higher tier version of IT with more storage. The original version had sixty years of storage. They all said one was sixty four gig s storage. How much more did they charge for that much more storage?

Is this the closest one?

Yeah, nice.

Without going over close, should going over here.

what are you? major? Two points a way or fifteen points?

Fifteen big bowler.

I very little confidence. And that fifteen points. but.

I just want everyone to know that Alice is watching. Mark is one plus one review right now.

I shot that on Stevens campus. One of the first videos I ever shot on red, oh, oh. One of the first video I ever shot outside.

There's tiny matcher ias in .

the background.

what to call back outside? Not the area, the side.

no in the in area.

But I shot the bureau side on campus. And I remember being outside on campus with a red camera, just like this is weird word .

foot mid mark is sixty nine was the question.

how many more dollars IT was or what the Price was?

So the answer is three hundred forty nine dollars. Oh, I you .

have to 什么 give point.

right?

Not for point. When do we think the most recent comment left on this .

nine year old video s day three o twelve hours, twelve hours ago, fifteen hours.

A IT was one hour ago and IT says, twenty, twenty three. Anyone .

anyway? yeah. So at the time, I just like like insane spects, insane Price, really good hardware, really good build. Everything about IT seemed amazing. Now they just like, yeah I would say the pixel seven is like the pixel eight is like the closed thing you can get but it's still not it's fast .

and IT doesn't have sandstone.

IT doesn't have sandstone, won't rip the .

inside of my pants. So stuff and .

l yeah.

still have the original sent on one .

that .

I so bad definitely got. I got the worst stand of warrantee. So things are going really well for one plus, right? IT was kind of this branded m company that was like the spin off of opa, which no one in the us or any other country had really heard of unless you're in china um and IT seemed like maybe this could work.

It's just that like building a phone from like some different OS had never really worked before in the united states. The only other place that this had worked is shot me and trivia quite well. I just gave the answer away in china.

china, all of my point.

I don't know if you guys know this, but show me the brand originally started as a custom alm. Oh, that was he got really popular. And eventually they'd just thought we should build their own hardware.

So they started building their own hardware, and then that was really popular. And so they just kept making devices. And then they started they just start branching out. And now when they one of .

like the biggest companies in china, so show and one plus of the similar similar.

however, one plus was sort of like an OPPO thing subbrand sort. Oh, interesting. yeah. So I already had all like the hardware stuff for as shami was started by people who worked at like google and a few other big tech companies, but in china, and they were like making their own rome and then just decided .

they wanted to make their own hard work for me to .

and yeah and yeah, so pretty cool. And they thought that maybe they could make one, plus thought that maybe they could happen, make that happen to with senate. And water can be like this, beautiful paying where everything that grows from one plus and signage mother together and that they become this huge company, right? But this is where things start to get a little bit shakey.

Uh, so investors, we're starting to pressure curt and science and ink to actually generate any revenue at all. Um and they didn't really have a clear path to generating revenue. There's kind of this thing that happens in silicon valley where you pitch your idea, but you have no idea how you're going to make money. And then VC are just like acquire as many users as you can, get as many users as you can. I get more people on your thing and will figure out the money later um and they don't ever figure out the monitor strategy.

I guess. So when they joined with one plus, IT was just like we are kind of helping each other out here. So there wasn't .

there big money, probably a because IT was kind of like a launch party thing for that was like one of the original things. But their main motivation strategy is we are going to charge companies to meet the OS for this device. And they were charging one plus, but one was also invest, not engh investors, they to scale, but like this fast as possible class.

The investors didn't really know what the main selling point of senate and OS was going to be like. IT was cool and they were being very brazen, like trying to start this thing that google owned. But IT was sort of an anti google thing because you're sort of starting in in google s like its own ashes and is just weird and they wanted to remove market dominance from google while being a sub product of a google product. I just seem strange.

Yeah I mean, you got to be worry about that at any time where your entire product is based off of something and then yeah, great into that something face little too much yeah, are you worried about losing?

I think the only reason a lot of these investors felt OK giving them money and not like not wearing ing that google wishes going to like shut them down at any minute, was that google would probably get in some weird anti trust territory if they like this is open source and then they meet and then they like shut down anything that starts competing with them. No yeah so that's why they felt, okay, we're doing IT.

Um yeah but they just wanted to require many users, which was a problem. Then bigger bigs problems I started to emerge. One plus had planned to sell the one plus one in a lot of countries, including india. And if you know one plus one of the primary markets is india.

Um but curt had sold exclusivity rights for senate OS to this company called in india, which means that only micro max phones with high energy and what could be sold in india s apparently did not communicate that to carl. And so I just got really DIY really quickly, really quick terrible a question. What was the brand of phones in india that was under the microbes brand? IT was a sub brand of mo max that ran I gen. And these are the most numerous devices that .

have to think, soldier boy.

How much guys want to wait you?

How many .

points have marketa has fifty four, Andrew, with one, two Carry 的。

Careful, careful item. There is a red point. Anyone think that atoms joke about underscores. And then somebody .

just like engine needs to pick IT up .

in the original posters like.

yeah, he does so very good.

I only got one joker. I like.

yeah, I think i'm entirely too confident about this.

I oh my god.

H in market you plan account .

one point? No, what? I don't know the answer, I just straight, don't know, I can't, I can't lose point, I don't know the answer.

says vivo, I, Q, I don't .

see all three, one, two, three.

you, I thought .

the other phone was a White label country. So that's .

why the thing now.

IT is, this is u ventures. Anyway.

this gets really easy, really fast. IT starts to be this lake. All our public dispute that you can watch in real time happening on the internet between coral pay and a carmike master and IT was kind of beautiful to play out.

Um carl publishes this letter on the one class forms that's just like i'm perfecting this is a bit long, but he says this week, we announced one plus one will finally launch in india on october seven, seven, eight and released an update to comply with indian regulations, which means that the phone would be able to the one lus one was actually going to be able to work on indian Carrier markets, right? Therefore, IT was surprising and disappointing to hear from Sandy on november twenty six, which was a months and a half later that they had granted exclusive rights in india over the sand agent system to another company. So they update the one plus one to be able to work in india.

And then the next month they're like, you can't sell this in india. F F big wave energy um and carrot was just very like what is going on. So they started this like back and forth. They're making all these public statement at each other about how the other company is trying to screw them. And there are each built on the back of each other's backs. The back of your back is also my back, you know, that kind of think but carl does say he attributes a lot of one plus success to say which is probably true um because know at the time I was like there a lot of time y phone brands that could launch that have kind of no name like carl was of a no name he was like an upper manager apple but that's kind of eat um and the only reason that the one plus one became such a big hit was because if I got all the press from having science and moon IT.

it's funny because like carl pay built a phone based on the height of a community, then the brands that he created at the hype of a community, that he then built a new phone off yes.

carl pay is is the original hype, man. There are also a lot of open letters from the community that are just not too kind to care about this, right? Because imagine you buy one plus one to use in a and then there's just like, uh, you can you you can do this anymore.

You can use this in the pigs yeah, I was a problem at the last minute because they could not use sand and O S. They had to build another OS, which was called oxygen. O S.

So one plus had to spin up this new OS because I couldn't use sign gens. IT ended up being one of the most popular oasis in the android like world for a very long time, and IT was actually not that different from santa. And all that was very stocking and enjoy very clean, very fast.

And that was only anymore. Well, now it's color us again. yeah. Well, they made to color us and then they were named IT back to oxygen just because people thought they were different you know exact the yeah it's all naming conventions and stuff but things just got worse from there. Every time sanin's seem to land some big deal, things just kind of stopped working um and there's even this crazy thing that Stephanie says that not a lot of people know about that ended up probably being the death blow for the company.

You know we are working on a project um with uh with a couple with a large U S. Carrier partner and a large manufacturer in china. And IT was going to be the mod phone, right?

We had in we had industrial designers, the manufacturer built like the first versions of IT. Um IT had this like, you know, really cool industrial design. And we are bringing all these features to IT. IT was gonna ship on a major Carrier here all the different place. And um like the worst thing happened, um the manufacturer um get hit with a trading bargo from the F T C um and that basically killed the whole .

product. Can you imagine what what happened if a sign branded phone got launched on a major U. S. Carrier?

That would be a very different path. Yeah, for the, for the history of android.

yeah. wow. Very different, right? yeah. You can can speculate on who that major OEM might have been. They got hit from this fine from the tc.

We think we kind of reduce that was probably zt e uh because at the time they got hit with this major, major fine, something to do with giving a ton of money to iran. Okay, lots of U S. Go politics going on in here.

Um but IT sucks, right? It's like it's like sand is just try to make their phone yeah so if you remember, Z T E had launched this phone called the zt E X on m that was an atn t exclusive phone. IT was the one of the first like dual screen phones that like he had a screen on the side and IT would open up, but IT was just two separate screens. IT wasn't like, IT was affordable.

So like the surface.

sort of like the surface, but I didn't IT didn't close on itself. It's like the insides were screens and I would open like this and I was just like .

flat on the so it's a worst surface .

and even worst service. Anyway, eighty at the time like was more open to launching more experimental devices like this.

What real cake? Yea wise. What time period was now early twenty .

sixteen through mid twenty sixteen? Yeah so yeah they got hit with the trade barga. They couldn't do IT and stepping as this quote that was like .

but that was ultimately like the downfall. That's what lake broke. Lake broke my soul um you know after like we put so much effort into IT, you know we had we had marketing. We had you know we had the device like IT was built right like IT exists which .

is rough because theyve been going out trying to do their original thing of like selling the O. S. everybody.

And that wasn't working out. And stephani had been wanting to build her own harvard for so long. Finally, like we have to make money somehow.

Okay, let's build the phone. They go. They build the phone. They have everything ready. It's ready to go.

And then Z, T, E, M, everything up, leg, leg, this. So things started getting really bad. They're not making any money.

Investors are getting upset. Um they have a big first end of layoffs, july. Then kirk, make masters steps down the CEO. How many, sorry.

how many people did were working for them at that point?

They don't have an exact answer. But at this point in time, they had raised almost one hundred million dollars in total. And they had two officers, one and open out, yeah, they were like, IT with flash organza. yeah.

O K, yeah. So, so good. My master steps down as CEO. He sends this email announcing the first pdt of the company to a modulate OS like they were going to try to license off little bits of the OS to people that needed, which seems strange. I think he thought that like, yeah, like if someone wants to sign in camera, then we can sort of give .

them that selling .

IT for part death. Well.

what about the parts for everything?

Yeah, so they try to make that work. But but no, the next month, the seattle office closes next, once stefanie officially leaves after he gets removed from the board because she's having fights with her, she's having fights with the rest of the board. It's, uh, it's not great. And later that month, in december, the final build of sand and OS is released. A man on december twenty fourth, a blog post comes out called a fork in the road.

This black post was basically announcing the end and saying goodbye, saying that sana, in mad as well, could not go on because the brand was too destroyed at that point, and also because, like other people now owned the scientists around like they couldn't even do anything with IT which is so depressing um but the blog post said, senator mod has served the community well over its eight long years. It's been our home bringing together their friends from all over the world to celebrate our joy of building and giving. It's after then that on this evil of a holiday we pair respects, we take pride in our lining age, and we move forward and continue to build on its legacy. So sn age was dead, and with IT drumming community was the roma community, that this beautiful combination of people who are all bashing together and making something beautiful with this, the fall of the android ROM.

it's OK. I have .

the answer maybe.

maybe and we'll find out.

Have to the break.

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away from welcome back. Remember that goodbye blog post called a fork in the road. I read with the tear in my ye, yeah, I remember reading IT in my college dorm.

Now I was at a college little later. Now, you're right, but I might have still been in that dorm. That was my college now is my apartment for like two more .

years broke back into the, just read this.

the body IT wasn't orry IT was my college department my best?

Anyway, the the black place called a fork in the road. But do you guys, to the question, know what that means to fork software?

How much are you willing to wager?

Andrew, this is one.

Oh o everything, all I feel am .

embarrassing. If we get wrong, we have been talking about .

the entire and I put I do five I don't know I I have a general concept of what I think IT means like fifty three .

points you're going na .

bat five sorry, I about three. After write IT.

uh, ander said I just .

branch off from, correct? okay?

And I drew a branch.

great. No, that just a why it's a fork.

I thought everyone in the middle that would be too complicated for analogy.

It's so yeah a fork in the road of music .

video of see you again.

No, yes, I do see you again.

Oh, remember .

me. Why .

are .

they really in and they way?

Wow, it's called the four. The blockhouse is called a fork in the road. And in software IT basically means that you have one line of software and you fork the soft. So the this one keeps to be being developed for this use, and this one starts being developed in this direction. And you could eventually end up with very different looking software that started from the .

same original base. I disagree with market as .

model .

my two different directions and said, that's why the know what I drew before. We just see what I drew before branched off from, which is like a branch redrew an empty circle. And then I had a circle for dot in IT to show .

that I was the same on one side.

I D A. And so anyway, yes, the void post called a fork in the road was kind of a little, a little hint, right? Sanine might have been dead and you have been saying goodbye. But reading the blog post again.

you start to look a little deeper when .

through hy, through a hybrid, in case that scientist month has severed the community well over its eight years, has been our home, bringing together friends from all over the world to celebrate our joy of building and giving. It's after then that on the eve of a holiday repair respects, we take pride in our hyperlinked linyard as we move forward and continue to build on this legacy. And what happens when you click the lining age? Hyper link.

one of .

fork .

appears. Las t you like .

a real.

actually an image of the four appears. yeah.

So the first blog post was december twenty four, twenty sixteen of Christmas. C, U, and IT was that was like, because saying, this is us. That is the same people.

This is some of the courteous behind li O. S. You'll probably learn more about them in a sec. But effective ally, what happened is a number of people who have been working on science on mod and science agent ink like we're not going to just let this die, right? Sandy mod was an open sourced thing. It's very different from one like a company goes under and all the IP that they had just gets destroyed, saying the name sangin mod, the named sami in OS. The name was owned by venture capital, but the actual code wasn't.

So all of the code even developed inside of the like offices under the fiscal CoOperation, while deal was open.

the stuff that wasn't open source. So they were developing stuff that were close source for sanity and OS OK. And then they were developing open source stuff for a sand and god.

yeah. And so yeah, they just took science in mode. And they basically, ford did changed the name of all in all the code from sin to the age.

O, S, right? This is the launch of planning. Js, say, about this black post.

He says, you've probably read the news articles today. If you haven't, please see the following. Yes, this is us.

Lana jos will be a contra continuation of what sana in mod was. To quote the ribon, this is the definition of open. A company pulling their support out of an open source project does not mean IT has to die.

And I find that very beautiful. Yeah, so capitalism and venture capital might have destroyed sciences and the company, but size lives on. This actually rands me of a lot of like what happened with boost did yeah if if you guys haven't heard, uh, the boost to board's episode, it's audio only. But basically the same thing. They got a bunch of venture capital, didn't, couldn't make enough money, and then they fell apart and then they got .

sold for parts and million other .

companies of the yes, but of course, that was not open source, right? If like if I was an open source escape for somebody else could take the bill that open sort of build of the electric skateboard and make a new company based on IT. But all that IP just got sold to line and all that stuff, the signing project is just need to be born into something else.

So the code base was all public domain, but the brain could just be restarted by anybody. Um I think to remember this being a time when I started to kind of forget about rummers though you know this was the end of twenty sixteen, december twenty sixteen. And if you guys remember um the nexus phones used to be these like awesome, incredible developer focus devices that google also sold to regular people now was like they had a different manufacturer make all these devices. I can member single one right now, just in case you're thing about that question. No no um .

but wait, i'm curious.

Named them all, oh you like name every to go HTC nexus one. Then we got samsung galaxy nexus. Then we got L G next is four, so good. Then we got, let's .

see .

nex L G he. That was a wait earlier though. He was called seven number.

Well, next to seven was called seven because of the size, not of the number. yeah. And that was made by next seven. L, G, S, L, G.

no. Next to seven. Yeah.

issues.

So write a had one yeah. And then the next ten was samsung. yeah.

Ah, get so many.

Well, those correlated .

with the size of the screen. That was a seven tla and a ten tablet.

yes. So where is the next? Is three?

Yeah, there was no next. I, so I so true. That's true true. Yeah the p and the five x came up.

The p and the five vex count the same time with while we being the effect of the six p and the five vex is L G. Yeah same time. I prefer the the p was the last next is fun. But um cent died in a december of twenty sixteen, what was launched in october of two thousand sixteen.

Mark, you have fifty six. Andrew, you have two. What would you like to waiter?

Anything that was launch?

Notice that we just talked a lot about nexus devices. Twenty nine points. We just talked a lot about nexus devices. And I remember I was saying that was kind of around the time that I started for getting about ramming and I wasn't as interested in like flashing roms .

on my phone constantly. And I was still true that like a lot of features kept getting brought from from rome into like .

a new versions of and yeah yeah like why? Why was I forgetting about ramming like we were doing? They had nexus device is. And like what happened in october of twenty sixteen?

First one, they lock the booker.

And you, how many points are your .

ringings one?

Is this the first one? I lock the blue. Ter, no. okay. Well, I wrote pixel one.

That's true. correct?

yeah. Pixel one. Do you take you like? Pixel.

um actually don't know. They might have worked one, yeah, but he was kind of IT was kind of like this interesting timing where sends in the company goes under sand and mod has to change everyone's kind of losing interest in ramming because and then the pixel comes out. This was kind of like the pixel was a little bit less open than all of the other access devices that were made for developers like IT was still easy to ROM.

Um google was still committing to android getting really good, but they were committing more to android getting really good than before they wanted to make the android iphone right. They realized we we can actually do this. We wanted make a device that can become the bastion of what android could pass away become um and so I had come a been a while since injured wasn't very good.

And over those eight years, since the first android phone, google had really built IT out. But I think ander was also just more of kind of an open book at that point. You know, stuffers changing a lot devices.

There are more devices that you could actually flash roms on now that there now more manufacturer I don't lock down um and android just became a more mature Operating system over time, right? And IT, just back when I was less materia was a lot more fun in interesting to rome to kind of mess around with flashing romes because there was kind of more stuff to do. There are a lot of features that you could add.

Different manufacturer Operating systems were not very good. IT was just like IT was in your best interest to be robbing. So this kind of left me wondering, like, okay, so if injured was good now, like what's the point in something like A A O S?

Like is are there any people still are there any people still ramming? Like IT seem like it's it's cool that you picked up the the pieces i've seen mod, but it's going to be way less people actually using IT right way less. Um but what I was told by the lineage people actually really surprised me.

Um you would assume that the community had kind of died and they were barely holding on. But how many devices are currently running? Linea U S, A, five hundred thousand. B one point five million, c three million and d five million .

olen .

olen markets.

Doing i'm go nine nine points.

Oh my good.

I'm betting nine points. And next one .

that Carry the one.

Do you have any pots? And if one two .

OK flippin red.

they both put d no one point five million as the end, but are optimistic.

But one point five million is still a lot.

And I think that there was a lot of people talking about ramming back in the day because phones were so bad, because they didn't have as many features. They need to run faster and need to add things to IT. And people were just like more willing to be experimental with their devices because they were so bad for is now it's like most of the stuff the phones do very well.

You know you have to go through like quite a lot of effort to run your phone. If are you going to get that much? What to get out of? Yeah, not going to double the speed is not going to make the camera significantly Better.

And there's like a lot of things you can do as well. You can cite the loaded things. You don't really need to flash a horse.

Yeah he feels like modifying a car when stock cars are so good and you're like you you're decreasing your reliability .

yeah at the cost .

at the like a benefit of not that much .

actually yeah yeah yes. So the people that are flashing roms has probably gone down quite a bit. Sand mod, as they say, had a much Younger, more excited user base that was like flashing those nights least.

And just talking about IT a lot. Where's now if you think about IT kind of everything is a computer right? Like those those terminals that like micco ald that order your food run on android.

What is the computer? The quest three runs on android. The switch parts of the switch.

Run on android. Start two. Yeah the port starter has entered out of motive. Yeah of this different stuff, like all of these things run on in A S P, which has entered done source project.

So like you know, if you could just take something that was a Better version, AManda, said linna. Jos, that had been like significantly updated and had like newer android features and just its open open source. You could put IT on your device. Won't you do that instead of the using A S P?

I can't want to know how many of the one to happening in Linda. OS devices are not smart phone like refrigerators earning yeah and like people's basement probably .

that's all yeah I don't think anyone has any companies have really come out and said we are using money and O S as our like basel stuff yeah most of them like, you know, you don't need the latest to google camera APP like Michelle lell told us that his printer runs the android.

It's going here like winter yeah thring like android eight, but you don't need like a camera and all this like latest stuff um so yeah well there there are still a lot of community members that are maintaining lining age for individual devices like if you go on the lining age website, most popular phones on there are on there. And IT sort of works the same way as IT worked on sand mod, where you buy a new phone, you decide you wanted to be the guy that maintains that. You go on and you maintain that and it's kind of fun, but it's IT being used a lot in like in industry now OK.

So very different. So i'm trying to figure out, okay, well, what really happened to the the modern community, right? Lake people stopped using this is IT just because, uh, android got mature and things got good right now.

You might have heard of this kind of conspiracy y theory that's been going around for a while that google has been taking things from A S, P. And instead of updating A S, P, they just update them in the google apps, right? And this is sort of a major thing that has been happening for a quite a few years now.

So yes, android is open source. And if you want to use android, you can use IT. But it's like the camera apps gonna from like and ID eight and the apps can be from and ID eight. Yeah and they started just like using their own um stuff in like the big like pixel x. Now in the message client in osp is different from google messages and like everything is like a google this google out of the asp versions.

So there's kind of this conspiracy theory that google intentionally, they need to make money off of android, right? They originally made IT up in source because they needed to get as much of a user base as possible. But then at one point, they're like how do we monetize this? We can't keep giving away all the good stuff that .

we're making for free. It's like the forth time this been brought up like got to make money.

I really want, I really want to do IT. yeah. So I asked a lot of people where I asked Michelle as the lining age guys like I was kind of like trying to ask them, like, do you think this is the main reason that romi has like gotten so not popular? You know, that google is like taking A S.

P. And making IT a lot harder to like a build stuff off of. And they actually think that IT makes a lot of sense for google to be doing this uh because the biggest reason that they say is that our phones are now a much more major part of the way that we live our lives.

right? And back in the day, you could run your phone, you could do whatever you want IT. And like you would still go to your bank maybe, and there would be a banking up, but the banking up was really bad.

IT was very new. And as our phones kind of a get more mature and have become a more integral parts of our lives, there been people at those banking companies is like, wow, wow, wow, wow. This person is throwing in OS that we have no idea what IT is.

And the security features of no idea what IT is and y're using our banking up on some phone. And so a big reason that both linear U. S.

People and people like Michelle think that Robin is like getting a lot harder and people are not doing IT as much is because now google has made IT that if you use a custom RAM on your phone, things like banking apps don't work right? And imagine your banking APP doesn't work like that's a major reason not to run your phone. You can use a lot of the core features that you would want to use on your device is not worth IT. Yeah, it's not worth anymore because like what you going to do, you're going to unlock your snapdragon processor and get faster. Like what does that he would mean?

They have my flashlight.

But early on when .

we're talking about like robbing phones and doing IT all the time, i'm been resetting IT. And like just so little of your life was on IT back then, like you was A A device of accessory phone. Is everything about you at this one? There are so many insanely important things and if something were to mess up on your phone, you could be really screwed for yeah so like it's way career to also just like do .

things to totally so cut very and security patches and bug fixes all the time just all the time as like it's it's a rat race. As soon as there's gets there's this bug that people find out about, they're tt a patch IT and then people exploit and pattern exploit and all thing um random via question. There is a fast food APP that does not work if you model phone.

which one.

which one which my best food of god doesn't.

where you wagering all .

of your zero points?

I don't know.

I, I and then he. We will give you a credit .

of one hundred points, fifty points, fifty pots. I get fifty because markets, well, let's wage your more than ten.

but seventy six. I have a bunch .

wrong OK way your .

fifty points does the only thing .

Angeles is confident about a talk bells, but I don't want to say talk bells that's a little bit concerning.

That's the nicest st thing you ever said.

Remember that remember that there's a prize that you want to win the prize .

fair while he got to IT. That's interesting. Well, i'm going to write a fast food APP, and I don't think i'm right.

But what are you adjourn? Oh, eight. I've what's seventy six?

Six, six, six pins.

Wow, imagine only way during six point.

Andrew could potentially end up owning nee fifty points.

If me you question in just there is a fast food APP that does not work. If you mod your phone, if you unlucky, book lotter. What is that fast food up?

That's a good one.

To know .

and oh.

I saw you right? error.

When is no my road starbucks? no. The answer is mcDonald, who yeah, Michelle said he doesn't really know why this is the case. I don't know.

I'm so sad .

that I I I mean.

IT probably .

has to do with the money thing yeah .

has to do A G I all IT go pay no wallet, ta GLE pay google .

hello yeah probably does like .

a check. And if .

there's anything .

along with the yeah in china, IT could be other starbuck is a say when .

you wrote that and how many starbuck give cards ah star back .

money is by investing your money that you add to your card on the, yes, they're literally a bank yeah why is called .

starbucks so anyway yeah anyway, minus seventy .

points yes.

I felt horrible to say out .

that yeah so yes, security is just becoming really important because our devices are kind of like this one stop shop. They really are pd is now. And so I secure if you gets more important, all of these apps are like, I don't want this unknown like OS to be running my APP, especially when IT has things like your financial details on IT because if they get in trouble, they're going to get a lot of trouble.

risky. yeah. So it's getting more close down. And surprisingly, people like the Linda U. S.

Team and marsha like, yeah that makes sense when you actually totally understand that, right? So it's not as much of that like google is intentionally trying to make android harder to use. They really think that the reason is because of security.

I'm sure there are also like they don't want to be the one to create something and then that ones are being the reason somebody loses a lot and then they have to think like that kind of even legally. But just like that sucks to think like something to lost important.

Yeah, yeah. But this is obama because, like, even R C S does not work in O S P. Oh yeah yeah.

That like the message in client of A O S P doesn't have R T S support that you have to use google messages, which is crazy. But you know the spirit of ramming is not dead. Um there's plenty of open source material as being published consistently. Um people like stephania a huge open and source like people they like really advocate for IT.

And I think that even if these roms like lenie jos are not the level of sanity and mild like they used to be, where the community was like, there were so many people and everyone was super excited about all the time and flashing every single day, I think every community will always have enough people that want to maintain IT. And just for the reason that they want to maintain IT, right? They're not they don't have to make a company out of everything and that kind of the magic word as open source. You don't after make the company of to make money out of this.

I just remember yet that the morning days were fun. I had my and I still have IT the original model add rode that I had that phone, I can believe the still boots that phone went through IT and that my galaxy nexus, I had custom arms, I was over clock.

Those add custom coronals where you could choose like, right, let me get to one hundred mega hurts when the screen is on, but then underclothing down to two hundred megger hurts when the screen is off and have this refresh rates so that I can like cycle between those clock speeds quickly and end up with faster phone, with longer battery life, with all these custom kernels. He was in same, yeah, these phones are cooking in my house, unreal. And I was quite.

yeah yeah well, the last time you tried to and phone.

I think right around the time that Sandy was done yeah, I remember being on the night least, I remember doing a lot of paranoid android. And because that that was like an alterum yeah, around the sAnitation was super room old yeah, I was like.

sAnitation was the big ACE.

But there is like paranoid android on the side, which, just like all this, got these cool themes and the the couple extra kernel features from my like overall king desires. Yeah, I definitely wasn't doing IT much after twenty, fifty and twenty.

Yeah I didn't once on my eras yeah, it's all I remember nice. I shout out to the eras.

I just think it's like pretty incredible how important science and model ended up being to like a lot of stuff that happened like one plus only really the way IT does because of some A D H.

I mean, was a community based thing that was also built up a different person that built something and then made IT to like it's literally in the history of android at this point and android phones in general.

Yeah, that's wild. yeah. So while we might not do a lot of romance ourselves anymore, I think it's beautiful that communities will still come together and make open source projects that are really cool.

You want to do one more trivia to.

can I get fifty more, please?

Sure I way you everything right?

I get how to you no, i'll take fifty points that works.

And I think that's .

OK points. alright. What famous piece of science fiction media does the name nexus of the google phones come from? We've .

definitely talked .

about this before. No idea. Second, you said famous media. I was. I was cooked.

I'll give you a hint. This famous piece of sipi I media has android ds in IT. Start .

something.

So android, these .

android mayor may not be asleep sometimes. And while they are asleep, they might be doing something. All right, what you guys get.

I wrote the .

bachelor.

is, is that I have going .

to feel horble.

The book and the movie have different names and all except either .

under the dream of electric sheep. And, well, do generally like to SHE wrong. He put star wars.

That is anything wrong.

There is right. And the movie is blade runner. Yes.

famous media.

The, in fact, he .

wagered .

all markets. Z, waged all his points. Andrew.

I did know what .

is negative .

one then .

android from bay runner, the model is the next to six.

what?

Oh no. And and the estate of pilkings dic suit, google over IT .

that's really funning.

The prize for the winner is a lovely 3 printed crown that ten .

is handing to the most。

You may hand IT to americas because he won with .

zero point over my head.

Tim is placing beautiful, right?

Little.

little spin, I think on this crown. I think the winner of every trivia moving forward .

to gets this crossed .

around my name on IT and every go OK. But I was fun .

kind of like recapping on what happened from the birth of android up until now and how important the open source community was. All of that.

I mean, someone who wasn't part of that ended very little new. Just enough about IT to know what the energy that was, and then to know about IT like inside of one plusses. Yeah.

it's fun. IT wasn't crazy. Set of years .

sounds like .

something I would have every single day wiping my device. Every single day. I would lose all of my data, all of my photos every single day for no reason, because I was .

a nerd.

simply times. But IT was a good era of android is zero points and catchy guys. And next one member, the episode see you later, peace way former is produced by adam. Alan is from we are parting with the box mini podcast network in our interactive.

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