Tesla’s Robotaxi Test Takes to the Streets
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See, but if we released a phone that had a dedicated Pina Colocator button. Totally dead.

Yo, what is up people of the internet? Welcome back to another episode of the waveform podcast. We're your hosts. I'm Marques. I'm Andrew. And I'm David. This week, we've got, let's see, a Samsung unpacked event date and some leaks of what might be announced there. A quick explanation on why we haven't done video on Spotify yet. We also got some brief early robo taxis. I'm doing air quotes for audio listeners. Robo taxi tests, Fairphone 6, and

And we're also gonna try to explain to David the NBA finals in tech terms. - And I have a small camera segment that I wanna rant about. - It's all happening. - Yeah. - Right now. But first.

Mario Kart World. You wanted to talk about Mario Kart World, the game. I know Adam also wants to, and I'm sure David probably does too. I played some. Have you played Knockout? I did play Knockout Tour. It is quite fun. Knockout is the most fun I've had in Mario Kart ever, I think. It's the format. It's so much fun. Yeah, it's 15-ish minutes of just complete...

chaos yeah i enjoy every second of it so for people that don't know generally when you're doing a pre in mario kart like generally you play like four different courses and it's just four different races and you go around like three times each course this one in knockout tour you just drive the entire time and you go through multiple courses and the courses blend into each other and it's like 15 minutes long and it's quite fun and it's like fortnight at the same time yeah marquez brownlee if you're playing with marquez that's a good point it's basically yeah

Mario Kart Battle Royale because there's like checkpoints that start knocking out X amount of people throughout it. So I think the first time it's like you have to be top 20, then top 16, then 12 and it keeps saying like make sure you're in the 12. And because there's so many people and they'll like

The way it always seems to be split up is one or two people out in front, this huge group of people in the middle, and then a couple in the back. If you get hit in the front with a blue shell or something, there's just a beehive of players and items behind you. You can go in first place by a mile to 20th place in a couple seconds, it feels like. I like that they also added a way to avoid blue shells now.

Well, they've always had the speaker, which can avoid. Well, yeah, yeah. But you can like you can stop and then like reverse right before it hits. Can you really? I did not know. I did not know. They added a bunch of really insane tech to this game. Like, yeah, you can like jump off walls now and you can do all this. They added a lot of insane tech, like not technology, like reverse. Well, some of the like speed run videos that are out right now just don't even look like they're playing.

Mario Kart. Yeah, it looks like a totally different game. Yeah, they cut across the middle and wall ride and ride the invisible wall into a grind, grind, grind and stuff like that. But Knockout feels just so chaotic that anyone kind of feels like they have a chance. My only thing I don't love about it is it seems really straight. There's not a ton of turning and maybe that's the common

between maps thing where it's just kind of like keep going but i wanted more drifting yeah that makes sense i have a complaint about mario kart cool um okay so in where i live my friend david kogan has this cafe called coffee check and it's great and in the back he has this giant 100 inch tv it's a really big so dude it's huge it's really big i saw it a few weeks ago too it's it's like

It's big. So we've been having Mario Kart nights back there. They limit you to four people on a TV.

And if you want to, like, we had a party of, like, 20 people, right? On a 100-inch TV, I want to be able to have, like, 20 different players, right? And you can connect a bunch of Joy-Cons to a Switch. But you can only do local Mario Kart with a lot of people if you have the main Switch hooked up to the TV with four people. And then each individual other Switch can only have two people per Switch, right?

So you have to have, instead of being able to play on like a giant TV with like a ton of different mini screens, you have to basically have a bunch of extra switches and you can only put two people per extra switch. And it's just like, it just feels like a waste of space.

And I understand that the Switch does not know the screen size of the TV it's hooked up to. It's like, there's no way you have a 100-inch screen. Yeah. But what if I have a 7-inch screen and I want to put 20 races on it? I feel like that should be okay. I mean, you let them suffer that part. Yeah. It's like still somebody picking to put...

eight screens on a 30-inch TV, which is not going to make sense, but I do agree. The only game I've ever found that can put more than four, and I'm probably wrong, but Bomberman is super fun to bring to a party because it's... How many can you put on that? I think you put eight because it's all on the same screen. It's not split screen. Yeah, it's the same thing with...

Super Smash Bros. Oh, true. You can have up to eight players now, but it's all on the same screen as well. I think the multi-screen might be a compute limit thing. Like, you can't have eight different races happening on, well, eight different perspectives on the same screen because of the compute, not because of the UI. But I thought it was the fastest game console ever. Well, you can hook up multiple, like, Bomberman, you can have eight controllers on. Yeah. I haven't played Mario Kart. I haven't.

I haven't I haven't gained like that. But when I was watching other people do the four player split screen, the frame rate was definitely kind of eating it. I didn't notice when we played and we're on the like 85 inch when you guys were when you guys know when you guys were playing here the other night, I kept being like, that is not 30.

That is not even 24. Really? It would fluctuate. There would be certain... I don't know. Maybe it's because I wasn't locked in and driving, but watching the background elements go by itself, I was like, this thing is chugging. I can tell it's chugging to render four cameras. Maybe we were too locked in. We didn't even notice. I think so. You were locked in for greatness. It wasn't subtle. It was like, oh, like...

Yeah, that's the perfect description of Switch gaming. It's not really about the fidelity and having the most incredible specs and highest compute. It's just like,

Like this game. Yeah, play this game the new the switch to though like they really you know They took that idea, but then they were like but what if also it looked like Unreal Engine Which is kind of nice a lot of frames, but you know what do you know my biggest complaint about Mario Kart is what? You can't change the wheels on your cart. Oh, yeah, like you used to be able to pick cart parachute wheels and character now You only choose cart and character right? I also don't think there's enough courses. I

There's like seven different worlds with four courses each or something. And I feel like that's not enough. I haven't gone that deep into it, but eight was around forever, right? I just kept adding. So I'm sure there'll be more. Yeah. So also, Dunkey put out a full actual review of Mario Kart World. It was so good. It's so good. He's so good. But it's very funny. You should go watch it. Anyway, now that we're done with the Nintendo Switch 2 gaming podcast, it's time for...

the phone show gadget it's time for like this stuff that this whole podcast was built up we gotta kick up the energy okay this is a this is a phone we gotta get excited come on let's first waveform episode ever was about the second unpacked event second ever no no no like do they call both of them unpacked oh yeah they do yeah yeah like the secondary this was a trivia question was it really yeah well i get a point right

I don't know how you got the point. So, I mean, they do the Galaxy S Unpacked at the beginning of the year, and then they do the foldables in like August or something. Used to be August. I guess earlier now. Now it's, yeah. But they should call the second one Unpacked 2 Electric Boogaloo or Galaxy Boogaloo, something like that. Or 2 Sam 2 Sung.

I like that. Unpacked. That joke never gets old. I like that. I actually tweeted that joke six years ago. Wait, did Andrew show you the Photoshop template he made? I'm never going to live this down. I'm sorry. Andrew made a Photoshop template so that you could just type anything in and it would come up as a tweet you made six years ago.

I'll save this. I hate everything. Okay, well. Anyway, Samsung unpacked. Yeah, we're expecting some foldable phones like usual. Fold and Flip 7. So that's not shocking. We get the Fold and the Flip the same time each year, so we're expecting those. Yeah. But also in the invitation, they're saying Ultra Unfolds. Yeah, so Ultra Fold. I'm so excited. It's going to be like the Fold 7 Ultra. Yeah. Yeah.

What does that mean? Do we think so? Yeah, I don't... Okay.

Right now it looks like it's potentially thinner I think that they should put the s-pen in it finally because we have been saying they're gonna do that for like literally forever and it's made it's been here and if the 84 85 year old woman at the airport can use a fold with an s-pen that was probably attached to the case on the outside Yeah, they should add it to the inside so she can use it the more I think about that the more crazy That sound isn't it makes sense though. It makes sense old people should use galaxy folds. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Oh

It's going to be $3 trillion. I'm going to run my next mayoral campaign on that. So the reason we think it's thinner is just the way the invitation kind of opens with it looking? Yeah. Or has there been reports of it being thinner? I have not seen that. No, I don't think so. I don't know. Oh, better camera. That's what they said it was, right? I think that's what people were saying. Did they? All my rumors are on the flip side.

Because the Folds never have the actual S cameras. They always have like worse cameras because they're thinner. Because Marques always says that like that's pretty much the only difference now between like a pro and a non-pro is like how many cameras it has. But the

the Ultras have always had the best cameras, right? In Samsung devices. And then the Folds do not. So the rumor is that this will have the Ultra or will have the regular. I don't know if it'll be the Ultra camera, but I think it's supposed to be at least better than the regular Fold cameras, how they usually are. But if it's going to be like an Ultra phone, why not put the Ultra cameras on it? Yeah, might as well. Because money.

Well, I mean, you can charge more. People will probably still pay for it. That is a rumor I have. It does seem like they're probably charging more because there was a Italian electronics website that accidentally leaked the prices. I guess they put the prices up on their website with the code names for it, but someone found out, and it seems like...

Fold is 200 euros more and the Flip is 100 euros more expensive than last year. Interesting. There's not a Flip Ultra though, right? No, but there... I do... I think Evan Blass may have tweeted about it, but a Galaxy Flip 7 FE. So a cheaper Flip version, which makes sense because Razer did that and actually made a super reasonably priced... Or Motorola, sorry. The Motorola Razer had...

6.99. Two years ago? Yeah. They still have a cheap one. They still have a $600 one. That's like the flip. That style feels like the folding phone for like the regular people. So I think having the cheaper version of that makes a ton of sense. I see a lot of flips on the subway. They're quite popular in New York. Yeah. I've been seeing a lot more folds lately too. I had not seen any folds for the longest. I've only seen flips. And recently I've been seeing like random folds in the wild. Yeah.

Like shirts that are unsteamed. Yeah, like they need ironing out. The Samsung Pete. Crumple fun is coming. Yes! But yeah, $2,000 Fold 7 this year. Do we think it's... Fold 7 Ultra. Fold 7 Ultra...

Do we know, is there going to be an Ultra and a regular one, or is it just going to be the Ultra? It would be very Samsung to have both, to have a Fold 7 and a Fold 7 Ultra. That'd be so ridiculous. Because it's just two different price points. Yeah. $1799. $1999. They should make an Ultra Fold 7 FE, but the screen comes broken when you get it.

As I call back to the original Fold. Yeah. Fan edition. Only fans will understand. Uses the original Fold screen. So you think we're going to get four phones at this event? Yeah, that would check me. Seven Ultra, seven regular, seven flip, seven flip FE. Listen, if this was an Apple event, we'd be like, whoa, four phones. That's slow. But this is the second event already. Yeah, but it's Samsung. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Who already has 90 other phone models. Yeah. So this is just what's for more. What do you think? Like, do you think we're going to get the seven edge flip F E ultra pro pro max? Yeah. Why not? Yeah. You know, I really, really hope that the ultra is like a significant bump because every single year, every Samsung phone is like,

It's the same. Yeah, the past couple years of Folds have been very small improvements. A little tiny bit of a hinge dimension improvement. A little bit of a thinner bezel. The Flip got a bigger screen in the front. Yeah, the Flips, definitely. But the Folds for like three or four generations have been very similar. So curious to see how that turns out. I'm expecting the Snapdragon 8 Elite. Hopefully other stuff also gets better as well. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. It's crazy we're on Fold 7 already. I know. To think about that, actually. Old. We're old. Yeah.

And we're on the watch eight. Maybe I should adopt the Apple thing and just say watch 2026.

I mean, they're going to do it. They did it with the phones. They did it with the phones already. You're right. I think it kind of makes sense. I mean, Razer does that not Motorola, but the gaming company Razer with their laptops. They just call it like Blade 2025 or whatever. I think that's smart. It is. Well, do you want to talk about something actually visual, which is we we've seen the whole Galaxy Watch 8 lineup?

And it's quite a bit different. At least the regular Galaxy Watch 8. We're going all squircle, baby. We're here. The regular one? Yeah, look at the regular one. Last year was... I mean, it's always been just pretty... Or maybe not always, but the last few generations have been just normal circle. Now we've got kind of this like...

Do you consider that a squircle? No, but the Ultra is squircle. Yeah, the Ultra is extra squircle. The Ultra is like... I feel like it's not that much different, just thinner. It's got like, they all have circular screens, but these little extra rounded edges on the outside of the screen. Yeah, like the case is squircle. Like the case. Oh, I see. Yeah, that's weird. That's totally new. That's pretty weird. Yeah.

I think it looks good. I think it's pretty cool. I'm in the market for a new watch right now and seeing the watch it classic. I was like, maybe that's what I want. Man, the classic has always been Samsung's best. The rotating bezels. Rotating bezel is so good. So fire.

The Golf, bro. The Golf. The Golf Edition. I think that's the cleanest one they've made. As someone who... Plays golf? As someone who doesn't play golf, doesn't use Android, has never owned a Samsung phone other than my very first phone, and also... The minimal phone's Android. Sorry, I meant Samsung, not Android. Okay. And so yeah, probably not the best, but when they dropped the Golf, I was like, I like it. That's how they get them. Well, the watches, you know, Adam...

Can you tell me, how do you feel about these watches? You're rated three of these. Explain them and rate them. I was just looking at it. So the Watch 8 Classic, like this white render, looks like a gift you would give a stormtrooper on his wedding.

That it does. But the Watch 8 Classic, it reminds me a lot of like the Seiko Turtles. So any watch people out there, there's like a brand called Seiko that makes a billion watches. There's one called the Turtle, which has like a squircle cushion case thing. Sure does. And it gives me that vibe. Oh yeah, true. Especially because it looks like, that's what I was trying to figure out in these pictures. It looks like there's a rotating bezel on it.

There is. There is, right? On the Classic, yeah. So then on the Ultra, there isn't, it looks like. No. Okay. So in that case, I like the Classic a lot more than the Ultra this time around. Oh, so you do like the rotating bezel? I love the rotating bezel. Then why did you do that? Meh.

No, that was Alice. Wow. You just can't see what their new board is. Yeah, it's too tall. For video viewers and for audio listeners, they have a giant new mixer. What? What are you talking about? We've never seen this before. You can barely see their shirts. Everything's exactly the same. They're not going to hear that, right? No, no, no. We can record that now. Oh, wow. New board. Okay. Yeah, so the classic would be the one that I go with just because it has that aesthetic.

And I really love the whole diver watch aesthetic. Do you use the Galaxy watches or like what? I used the Ultra when it came out after Marques' review. I borrowed it for like a week or two and I tried it. I liked it. It's just the battery life was not great in my usage. What do you use now? Now I'm...

I'm using a moon swatch, which is very nice. That's cute. Who got you that? Is that Android? You guys did. No, this is a quartz watch. But the smartwatch that I use is Pixel Watch 3 and Garmin, depending what I'm doing.

Those are the two. But Garmin, you don't have to charge like ever. Like that's what I want out of an Ultra. If they're going to do another Galaxy Watch Ultra like this, let me not charge it for two weeks. That was supposed to be the selling point. They were like, it's got a good battery. Same thing with Apple Watch. The Ultras just don't have the battery life to match anything else. They're like, it's two days instead of one. Because every time they improve the things on the inside, they also give it a bigger, brighter screen than ever before. And they just neutral it out. They neutral each other out and they go, hey, it's all day. All day. It's like, how about all multiple days?

It is. It is. All seven days. It's called Ultra, but actually, Hella, who we've spoken to on the podcast before, he had a video recently where he was talking about his experiences using all of these different watches while running actual ultra marathons. Yeah. And the Apple Watch Ultra was the only one that died. Yeah. Well, remember when we interviewed him, he said that he would basically be running and he'd take it off and hand it to somebody to charge while he was running and then he'd put it back.

And he literally only uses it because that's where his streak is, because he has a crazy 4,000-day streak or something. But that's where he attracts it. I mean, Apple added a feature where you can pause your streak. They did. The newest version. They're like, would you like to pause your rings? It's like, yeah, you can just pause it. For how long? And how many times can you do it? As long as you want. Indefinitely. You can just pause them. Yeah. Yeah. Completely defeat the purpose. Yeah.

Sounds fun, right? If you're sick or you break your leg, God forbid, and something happens and you can't keep your streak, you lost your streak. You lost your streak. That's true. What if I'm in the middle of some good one-piece arc and I don't have time to run? Bye, streak. Pause. Just watch it while you're running. No. Okay.

Okay. Well, regardless, we don't really know much about these watches. They look mostly the same. Hopefully the people out there that are big fans continue to be big fans. But speaking of watching things. That's right.

Well done. Very nice. Spotify video. People have been asking us about this for every. I literally can't read about anything without people being like, why isn't the video on Spotify? Why can't I watch this on Spotify? Spotify just doesn't have a good search. That's like the number one reason I would not put video on Spotify. I would say the number one reason we don't do it is like we put a lot of effort into our production quality and like we think YouTube is the best place to watch content.

- The effort that we put in. - Well, we also need to make money. - Well, yeah, okay, so that's the other large reason we're talking into a little deeper, but for real, we put a lot of effort into the production of this, and YouTube's the best place to watch that production. So that's what we trust the most. - I'd rather watch it on my smartwatch Spotify app screen.

That's the best way to watch waveform. I don't... Yeah, I think all of us here would agree. Does anyone here use Spotify video? I do not. I don't even use Spotify podcasts. I do sometimes. That I do.

But yeah, I don't watch the video versions. I will say it is nice to have a video version. I think this is the thing that people want. When you're listening to the audio and the host like we do sometimes is like pointing something out or we show a render on the screen to just be able to like glance at your phone and see the video is pretty helpful. And I think that's more what people want. I don't think that people are necessarily like clamoring for YouTube in Spotify. Like it's just like to have the extra context of things where your player already is. Yeah.

Another reason, and this has been an ongoing thing for many months, and a website called Digiday just did an article about kind of how the creator partner program in Spotify has been working and why it's really good for some people and really bad for other people. So we happen to be in the bad scenario, which is we're kind of... We're in the bad place. Well, we're not in the bad place. We're avoiding the bad place. I'll do a really quick breakdown of this, but...

Basically, if you are a podcast not associated with a network, it's probably an awesome thing because you're not using dynamically inserted ads. You're not really selling much ad space, probably. Or if you're independent, not doing that. There is a Spotify partner program where if you get views on your videos, you will get paid for it. We are part of a network, kind of like YouTube.

We and a lot of other podcasts are part of a network. And the main way a lot of these networks make money is through dynamically inserted ads, which can be obviously inserted differently depending on wherever we put ad breaks. So like we're under Vox Podcast Network. We were under Studio 71 before. The reason we're with these is because we started a podcast when we'd never done a podcast before. They've been a ton of help.

helping us succeed in the podcast world which is awesome because they have no say in our episodes all they do is sell ads here and we work with them to do that and they've helped with a lot of stuff in terms of why can't I think like the live show distributing and the live show and stuff like that they're great partners in that sense

The problem with uploading videos to the Spotify partner program in this is that it removes our opportunity to put in dynamically inserted ads, I believe, even in the audio section of Spotify. So for a lot of people like us who this is one of the main ways we make money and keep this podcast afloat, you know, we have five people working here on it now, it would severely cut

revenue in that and that's why a lot of people are super hesitant um especially because spotify doesn't have the best track record of paying people on their platform very well when it comes to partner program stuff like that musicians at least from what we've seen so you know this is ongoing i'm sure things will change i know vox is probably working with spotify in some sense and keeping up to date with everything but

That's why we are not on Spotify video right now. Could change in the future. We'll see how it goes, but that's like a really big risk. And from what I know, I don't think you can go back once you do it. I might not be totally sure on that. But I also think it's just like the use case. Like in YouTube, the reason we upload the video for YouTube since the beginning is the searchability and discoverability. And podcasts do not have that. And Spotify right now...

anything that they... It's pretty much like what they decide to push is what gets discovered, for better or for worse. So if we upload video, it's not necessarily going to be added to this giant search engine that's going to surface our podcast to people that we don't normally reach. It's just going to be for our immediate fans that can see it, which is good. But then, like you said, we miss out the dynamically inserted ads and it opens up a whole other can of worms that we haven't quite figured out yet. And that

Spotify quite hasn't figured out yet. Yeah, and we don't want to risk our good show, a good thing going with that. Still pretty early. We're YouTubers first. We think a lot of our audience, even if you listen to the audio podcast, you are also probably a YouTube consumer. We like interacting with you guys in the YouTube comments. We like to keep you guys in this one place where we can have this fluid conversation. I think in the future, there is a way. There's probably some sort of way that

we can allow people to get out of the Spotify app and quickly look at something. I wish you could just put like a slideshow with your Spotify podcast so that when we need to show someone a picture, they could stop doing the dishes, pull out their phone, look at it. But you know, if we made a federated version of YouTube, I was just thinking that six years ago. It's so crazy. That's actually crazy. You were ahead of the curve. So ahead of the curve. Hmm.

I will say, I do think it's interesting how hard Spotify is attacking this, though. Like, they keep adding features to their podcast, like, section of Megaphone, which is their service that we use to upload audio and stuff. So, like, for example, the comments, you can comment on Spotify. And I do read those. Those are pretty funny. People are pretty clever in there. But, again, like...

The amount of comments we get on Spotify versus YouTube is just like not even comparable. It's like insane. And I also get all the analytics and the number of Spotify, the number of people listening to the podcast on Spotify is,

is like pretty much the same slash going down. We have other people like Pocket Cast doing good work that's like dragging people away and YouTube Music, whatever they decide to take podcast seriously will be another competitor. So it's just like there's so much up in the air right now. - It is interesting how many people listen to podcasts on Spotify now. When I send anyone a podcast and I'm like listen to this, they always open it in Spotify and I'm like wow,

That's crazy. Because it seems like, at least in America, we want more dedicated stuff. Like, we don't like super apps here as much. Like, in China, they have WeChat, which you can do everything in. You can call your taxi in it. You can pay your taxes in it. You can do freaking everything in WeChat. But here, it's like, you know, one company having all that data about you, people are not that comfortable with. So it's interesting to me that people have, you know, I guess it was a good move by Spotify to, like,

push into the podcast space because every single normal person that I talk to uses Spotify for podcasts. I just don't like...

Something that's annoying for me on Spotify podcast when you listen to one podcast on Spotify It starts like surfacing podcasts in your like you should listen to this and it's like I just want to listen to music in my music app Yeah, you know I mean, yeah, I do want like a separate section for podcasts usually yeah, I think of Spotify I think of music typically yeah Yeah, yeah agreed. Also YouTube is still the number one podcast player YouTube is the number one everything. It's they're bigger than Netflix. Oh

They're bigger than everything. Search is just so good. Trust me, they're doing plenty of things with podcasts that I have no idea if they're going to work or not, but it's still discoverability seems like the best thing. Wait, can I take back something I said about Spotify a few weeks ago? No, you cannot. That's it. No takesies-backsies, Andrew. I said I was starting to enjoy Spotify DJ, and I regret that.

I tried. I continued to keep using it. It played me the same songs like three weeks in a row. Every day it was just like the same five songs. Eight things I love forgetting myself by Third Eye Blind. And then this morning it stopped that and went, I'm going to bring you back to something you've had your eye on. Semi-charmed life right after. I think David hacked your algorithm. Greatest song of all time. That's the first song on bangersonly.net every week.

Okay, so that's it for now for the Spotify stuff, but I think we're going to take a quick break, and when we're back, we have a lot of stuff. Yeah, which means it's time for trivia.

Welcome back to another exciting episode of Waveform Trivia. So guys, in the news today, we had IO and IO getting mad at each other, legally speaking, about which vaporware company was going to not release products harder. But today's question is, in fact, about this. And whoever on their whiteboard can name the most accurate

acronyms or definitions of IO gets today's point. And I just a few rules. I will accept places, but I will not accept like people's names and I will not accept. I think that's the only thing I won't accept. I think I'm looking for acronyms, definitions, places, uh, just know, like you can't say like Ingrid Orinson. I don't know. That's like an imaginary Swedish person. I just made up. Um, thanks. Or no, uh,

I don't know, you guys get the idea. So yeah, most I/O definitions and acronyms. - Can I also say something? - Absolutely, David.

Johnny I've the whole IO thing with Johnny I've the the purchase of opening I buy buying their own company With Johnny I've slapped onto it is still happening. Yeah, but they removed all the IO branding. Yeah on the company Well, yeah lawsuit while this lawsuit happens no one's Sam Altman is like we like they wanted to get bought and we said no and it seems like I yo was like they wanted to buy us and we said no and

And no one can agree. And it's fine because they're both making fake stuff anyway. Allegedly. I think there will be something from the OpenAI thing, but I don't know if it'll be good. Yeah, it'll be love. That's true. Love from Johnny Ive. That was good. Well, because his design firm is called Love. Well, you know what? We'll see after the break. Okay.

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I have another story. This is a story about cars, and it's actually kind of a fighting story. Be really careful because the last time I talked about cars on this podcast, I didn't hear the end of it for like six weeks. Oh, I got you. No, this is all real, and this is all interesting.

You remember CarPlay Ultra? Remember last WWDC when they first showed us CarPlay Ultra? I think that was two WWDCs ago. Was it two? Yeah. Two years ago they showed us CarPlay Ultra. And they were like, trust us, it's coming to a bunch of car makers. And they told us, you know, people don't buy cars unless they have CarPlay. Right. And we went, really interesting? And then we moved on. And I don't know if you remember, but there were a whole bunch of manufacturer logos on those pages. Yeah.

Apple is essentially, through these presentations, promising that it's going to be coming to more cars and more car manufacturers soon. This latest update, you know, it's been two years now, is essentially a bunch of car manufacturers going, hey, yeah, we don't want that. We're not doing the CarPlay Ultra thing. The announcement is now the latest three are Mercedes, Audi, and Volvo are out on CarPlay Ultra.

CarPlay Ultra being specifically the version of CarPlay that also takes over the dash and the tachometer behind the steering wheel, all that extra stuff in your car. And all the comments are kind of just along the same lines of like, yeah, why would any car manufacturer want to support CarPlay Ultra? It's bad enough that they're giving up full control over that entertainment screen. Why would they give up the whole car? There's a great quote in here from one executive at Raynaud's.

who's developing a vehicle mainly controlled by software. It's pronounced Renault. Renault. And they told Apple, quote, don't try to invade our own systems. Dang. So it's pretty clear. A lot of car manufacturers are not into it. The only ones that seem to still be in are, and we don't have all the models yet, but are Porsche, Aston Martin, and Hyundai Kia, that sort of company. Yeah.

And that's it. And the only ones we've seen so far are just the Top Gear video of them showing it to us on that Aston Martin DBX 707. I think that's the only vehicle I've seen running CarPlay Ultra. Yeah, the one that no one can afford. Since two years ago when they first showed it off. Yeah. So CarPlay Ultra kind of running up against a wall here. I don't know if you guys are like expecting to try to run CarPlay Ultra or if you're interested in CarPlay Ultra or if you just don't care. Seems like most people don't.

don't care. I think it's vaguely interesting, but I'm also not very interested in something that requires one platform. An iPhone? Yeah. Fair enough. Yeah. Yeah. Do you think this is what Apple did for their Apple car platform? They were like, we're going to make the car. And so they designed the software for the car and they were like,

Oh, man. Designing, like, manufacturing cars is hard. What if we just took the software we made and put it in other people's cars? That's a whole other can of worms because if you're going to design a car on your Apple, people also expect it to be electric. They expect it to be fully self-driving, which we'll get to in a second. So there's a whole bunch of more stuff that comes from a high-tech car. Yeah, which is probably why they gave up on it. Also, the whole manufacturing part.

Yeah, like what bankrupts most companies. Yeah, so yeah, I think as far as being a karst a high-tech car startup There was a lot of variables in play and Apple can do software. Yeah, but what if they just took over the software without making a car? No, ah You sound like Renault. Oh, yeah Do you know what company funny enough does see still seem to be going forward with carplay ultra Aston Martin? Which one take a guess one you wouldn't expect

Well, the ones that I know about are Porsche, Aston Martin, and Hyundai. So what's one you wouldn't expect because of the software it already has? Oh, Tesla and Rivian? Polestar?

Yeah, nothing you wouldn't expect it but their whole base is already as Android automotive But it seems like they're still in on carplay ultra. I think that they're just like no there They're one of the ones out. They're one of the ones out or at least Volvo's out is post our hands today No, this is from like two weeks ago. That's not from today but still Seems like there's still possibly in it. I would say that they're probably out. I'm

I would assume they were out. They're in a quantum superposition of in and out. The way function will collapse when you buy your next Polestar because you have to observe it yourself. The moment you look at it, it becomes Android Automotive or Apple.

This article from today says that Mercedes, Audi and Volvo and Polestar and Renault are all distancing themselves from this project. So a lot's happened in the last two weeks. So just kidding. Yeah. You know what's hilarious who hasn't said that they're leaving CarPlay Ultra? Jaguar. Because less than a year ago, the Jaguar design team was like,

We have no idea what anybody wants from us. That's very true. Yeah. They should just accept that it doesn't matter what they do. Yeah. They should just be like, Apple, please design stuff for us. Please. Copy nothing. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. I have a very stupid fundamental question about all this that you guys can maybe help me with. Okay. So if I get a car. Yeah. And it has Android automotive. Yeah. But then I buy an iPhone. Uh-huh.

And it supports CarPlay Ultra. Can I plug in and it just takes over the car? This theoretical car supports CarPlay Ultra and runs Android Automotive? Yes. CarPlay Ultra or CarPlay in general? CarPlay Ultra, specifically this one. Which is what the... I don't think it's exclusive, right? It's what the Polestar was going to do. Yeah. In this theoretical world where that car exists, yeah, you plug in your iPhone or you connect your iPhone and it takes over all of the screens in the car.

Like buying one doesn't lock me into the phone that I have. That's the big question, yeah. That's a question. Like the Ashton Martin right now, if I have an Android phone. It doesn't do Android Auto. It will not do Android. It will not do CarPlay Ultra. It will not do CarPlay Ultra. Yeah, CarPlay Ultra still relies on the iPhone.

But Aston Martin does do a CarPlay Ultra, right? Right. But you need an iPhone to do that. Oh, is that what you're saying? So if I have an Android phone and I have an Aston Martin because I'm awesome. Yeah. When I plug in. When you plug in, you will get the normal Android Auto experience. You do not get CarPlay Ultra. CarPlay Ultra is if you have an iPhone, you connect it, it takes over all of the screens. No wonder car manufacturers don't want to be involved in this. Yeah.

Dude, why would you make the most expensive product you own lock you into a phone ecosystem? That doesn't make any sense. There are lots of cars that have one or the other. It's less common now, but there have been plenty that have been like only CarPlay or only Android Auto.

Yeah, there's like different levels of connecting your phone to your car. You can just connect via Bluetooth in theory and then just like play whatever audio coming from your phone and put your phone in the dash and that's whatever. But the in-car software usually sucks. What if your house was like this? What if you're like, damn, I really want to try the new ROG phone, but I have an Apple house. Well, that's not entirely fictional. Yeah, because think about HomePod and HomeKit. No, no, no, totally. But I mean like I just spent...

you know, half a million dollars on a house. And now in order to change my thousand dollar devices ecosystem, I would literally have to restructure the entire financial future of my life, which I get a car is not half a million dollars, but also it could be, it is oftentimes something you pay off over the course of decades. So it's like, yeah, still does have its own UI though.

Like the Aston Martin still has its own UI. Yeah. If it's not, if you have an Android phone, it's just the Aston Martin UI or regular Android phone. My house has light switches, but I still want to use the HomePod, you know? Well, this is HomeKit, basically. This is like matter is important. There are people who move into super fancy high-rise apartments with iPads embedded in the walls. Yeah. That's...

kind of like that. That's true. Sort of locked in. And honestly, most people are fine. They are not upset that they are locked into an ecosystem. You know what I mean? I guess I'm that way. We actually bully people who are in other ecosystems. Right, exactly. I'm also that way. We cover all... That's true. We cover all this stuff so we're interested and we want to try something, but it's hard for us to even try something when it doesn't work with the ecosystem that we're locked into. But most people...

Most people are like, oh, yeah, just give me the new iPhone. Give me the new AirPods. Give me the new MacBook. You're so right, David. I will admit on the podcast, just so everyone knows, I've been curious about the S Pen for a while. I've really wanted to try it. Never going to. Unfortunate. Because you can't. Yeah, because I literally can't. That's exactly what I'm saying. Because I'm staring at Adam's S Pen right now and I'm just like, ****.

If there was a smart pen protocol for your phone. Yeah, yeah, exactly. A federated smart pen universe. Well, speaking of cars and fantastical future stories, there was also an event, or at least some happenings, in Austin, Texas this past week. Did any of you guys see what happened in Texas? I did. It was pretty funny. I was tagged about a thousand times in tweets about what was happening in Texas, most of which...

Lacked reading comprehension skills. But that's okay. That's okay. Because we can still talk about it. Because it was interesting. Grok, context, please. So here's the context. Tesla finally started doing test runs that the, quote, public can use to...

of robo taxis in Austin, Texas. It's a small geo-fenced part of Austin and these are Tesla Model Ys. In fact, I can pull up all the stipulations of exactly the restrictions. It ran from, oh, I need my tab open here. So if you wanted to do one of those robo taxi rides,

You could pick an area in this defined geolocation. - You're already missing one. If you were an influencer selected to do one of the rides so far. - Is that part of it? You have to be selected? - Yeah, they were like-- - I gotta get invited. - Invite only. - I think it was invite only. - Okay, so for this test, it was invite only. But essentially this was model-wise where there was nobody sitting in the driver's seat, but there was a Tesla employee sitting in the passenger seat. We assume that that is required for some reason.

We know the reason. Well, you know, we don't... They had a kill switch. It's a safety monitor. There's some speculation about what they're doing in the front seat. There is some UI on the screen that allows them to tell it to stop or pull over, and they all seem to always have their hand on the handle. We don't know why or what that means. Tesla hasn't told us, but the point is there's a Tesla employee in the front of the car, but not the driver's seat. Very important.

not the driver's seat. You could call the car. It runs from 6 a.m. to midnight. It doesn't run in all weather situations, but in the perfect weather that we saw videos of, it was taking people to various restaurants. Not the airport, though. Not the airport. Well, this is a small area. It didn't have any highways in it. It was up to about 35 miles an hour, but it was taking people around. It kind of resembled what you might see from a Waymo, except a Waymo doesn't have someone in the front seat. It's just a

different system altogether. But this is Tesla's thing. All rides were $4.20 just because it was easy to, you know. Because there's like 20 people that were allowed to do it. Yeah, promotional flat rate. We don't have to charge people. We're not making money from this yet.

Onboard cameras would monitor passenger behavior apparently, and if you're under 18, you can't do one of these rides. But it is a big step, theoretically, towards this future of what Tesla is imagining, which is robo-taxis all over the world, or at least all over the parts of the world that allow it, that will just drive people around with no driver. Didn't they also have a car that was driving behind it to make sure that nothing would happen? I don't know.

I thought I read that on The Verge. I was watching videos from the people who were there, one from Dan from What's Inside, one from Kim, and it was just called it in the app. You'd get into the back seat. There would be a Tesla employee in the front seat, and then you'd hit the go button on the screen. And from that back seat, you'd just have the car drive you. And if anything weird started to happen, the employee could stop the car or pause it or take over or whatever they had to do. Did you see any videos of anyone stopping it?

I saw two videos. I saw one video of the car following a UPS truck. The UPS truck pulled up to clearly start to reverse into a spot. The robo taxi didn't get the signal and just continued right into the path of the UPS truck. So the employee reached over and stopped it to allow the UPS truck to back in. I saw that.

Then I saw another video where there were no interjections, but it fully went to the wrong side of the road and like wiggled and then came back to the right side of the road. And that was kind of weird, but nobody interjected. It was in a turn lane, went into the turn lane, started to turn left, then just went straight. But ahead of it is the opposite side of the road. Right. And then continued going forward until I got into the next turn lane. But that means for half of a block.

It was in the wrong lane of traffic. Yeah. But no intervention. Success. This article says in some cases Tesla is using chase cars and remote drivers as backup. Okay. I never saw, you know, I'm going by the videos that I watched from the influencers who were invited. I don't know the criteria for the influencers invited. I was not invited. So assume whatever you want about the criteria. But yeah, that happened.

there's two ways you can interpret this. One, wow, big step, Tesla's on their way, robo-taxi coming soon, Marquez, get the clippers ready. Or two, you know, I watch that and I see marketing. It's like another very beautiful Tesla showy thing to do. If someone's required to be in the front seat

why not put them in the driver's seat? Because it looks way better when no one's in the driver's seat. If that person is not going to intervene at all and is not going to grab the wheel, don't put them in the driver's seat. Put them in the passenger seat. But for some reason, you need them still in the front seat. That was kind of a damper.

The reason they're doing that is because they're being extremely cautious and extremely safe about any little incident that could happen. They want to make sure everything goes smoothly. A very small number of people get invited to use this thing. Perfect conditions, geofence location, small area, no highways.

you know great weather only during the daytime like there's so many things that they're trying to do to make sure this this little experiment goes well so that they can build out on it and build out on it and build out on it and maybe one day it's all of austin maybe one day it's all hours one maybe one day there's nobody in the front seat but that's all maybe one day type stuff so if you want to read into this as being a successful test with a few interventions you can

But that's a really hard extrapolation to go all the way out to like robo taxis all over the country. I also implore you to get an Awaymo because they're really, really good. Yeah, it's funny for a long time, but also use the same tricks like remote drivers, like constant monitoring by like centers internationally. You know, it's not it.

The goalposts are not that far off. Yeah. There's a lot of resurfaced talk about Waymo because of these tests, because of the things that Tesla has said about geofence testing before. You know, Waymo being a lot of more Jaguar I-Paces with a bunch of LiDAR sensors on top, much more expensive to make a bunch of these taxis. But they operate around a whole bunch of cities and without a driver in the front seat.

And so naturally there are lots of instances of them screwing up. And people are bringing back up the footage now of, oh, look at what this Waymo couldn't do. Oh, look at this weird incident that this Waymo pulled off. Or, oh, look at all these things that Waymo has been doing behind the scenes. So this is a very difficult technological problem to solve. I think as a fan of tech, I'm just interested in hopefully these tests going well and it's actually like working. I think a lot of people are like picking a horse on,

like I only support the Tesla vision way or I only support the LIDAR way. And you will see these like sides fighting each other about like, oh, LIDAR is stupid. It's overpriced. What a dumb idea.

But as a fan of tech, I just want them both to get better. Just get better. I want them to actually work instead of fighting each other. So that's kind of where I'm at. They're both not quite good enough for me to just want them to be everywhere yet. Waymo is pretty damn good. Waymo is good. It's in a couple cities. I don't think they're anywhere near the East Coast yet, so I'm not taking them regularly. They're going to test in New York again soon. There's plenty of videos of Waymo just being an absolute nuisance. For sure. And the data they put out on their own

like service is doesn't line up with the data collected by independent observers either. So it's like not actually clear statistically how how good Waymo is. Yeah. There was a neat article about how if you watch all of the videos from all these people invited to the Tesla event and you go, OK, well,

there's only a few days of recording and two or three major instances, then you extrapolate that to however many millions of miles you want them to drive and how many major instances that is. Clearly, it must get better before it scales up. Yeah. I just, Ellis's,

Crazy corner moment. I just want to press like even if Waymo does work really well on an individual level. It is not clear What mass adoption of Waymo's will do to a metro area, you know, I mean, it's not clear what it will do to traffic It's not clear what it'll do to accidents There are lots of studies that say lots of things on both side of the agreement I heard a really funny Waymo story this week of someone in

either Austin or LA who has a Waymo who operates like that way most territory is his neighborhood. And it has chosen the parking spot right in front of his house as the wait for my next ride spot. And so every day he comes home and there's a Waymo in his parking spot with no one in it just waiting for a ride to call. And if you wait next to the Waymo for like 10 minutes and it detects that you're waiting, it will go and find another spot. But yeah,

He needs to invest in a large cone. Every day he comes home and has to wait for a wave. Wait, just buy a huge cone. You'll be fine. Yeah. I don't know if you're allowed to do that. Anyway, I don't know. Also, Elon says that on June 28th, there will be a Tesla that drives itself from the factory all the way to the customer's house. I'm so tempted to make another bet.

I am so tempted to make another bet. Yeah, he's not very good with dates. This is also probably intentionally. Like three days away with that weapon. This is when he originally said tentatively the 22nd is when RoboTaxi would roll out. It did...

Well, this is only 15 days ago that he did this. Not that long. So maybe they're planning like a specific customer with a specific thing happening. I'm not sure. Yeah. Maybe someone lives right next to the factory and they're like, we're doing this. It's happening on this day. They sleep in the factory. They have an RV in the parking lot. Yeah.

Yeah. So yeah, anyway, if you're one of the people on Twitter expecting me to shave my head, just go back and watch the original video. If you're wondering what the bet was, it's not about a Model Y with someone in the front seat driving around Austin. It's about that little gold RoboTaxi that we're going to ship for 30 grand. There still is a chance. CyberCab? CyberCab. CyberCab. I personally would like to see it.

I thought it was RoboTaxi. Your hat shaved? RoboTaxi is a service CyberCab's little gold two-seater thing. Dude. Yeah. Get it right or you know nothing. We'll see if they can do it. It'd be fun for the content. Yeah. For me personally, but not for you. Yeah, well, they've got a year and change to ship one for 30 grand. So there you go. Well, speaking of things that are going to go on sale for an interesting price, I

The Fairphone. There is a new Fairphone. Is it $30,000? Thankfully not. So the whole point of the Fairphone, I reviewed a Fairphone a couple years ago, and the Fairphone, as you can probably tell by its name, is intended to be extremely repairable, and you'll be able to replace parts. If one of them breaks, if the screen breaks, you can pop it off and replace the screen.

Key distinction here, not upgradable, like if it was modular, but you can stay at the same level of phone forever by replacing parts anytime they break.

New Fairphone comes out, new level. This one's a Snapdragon 7S Gen 3, so a little bit higher performing. It also has a 120 hertz dynamic AMOLED display. And you can, again, replace those parts over and over again and hopefully keep the phone for longer. So this is not like if you have a Fairphone 4, it's not like you buy a Fairphone 6 parts or something like that. That would be a totally different concept. Perfect for someone like Ellis, who just keeps his phone forever. Yeah. I don't know.

I don't even know Fairphone. You guys know this. I've replaced every single individual part of my phone. So it's basically a Fairphone. It's the ship of Theseus iFairphone. It's perfect. The idea, I guess, of this one with this new design and with this new chip is to feel a little bit more flagship-y. It's IP55. Right.

It's got, I think, I don't know if the battery is bigger, but it's a 6.3 inch. It's an OLED. It's nicer than the previous Fairphones have been. Yeah. And to be fair, like, huh. Thanks. I didn't mean to do that, but it's good. A big point about the Fairphone is it is about repairability, obviously, but a big part of their thing is also about like,

fair resource development trade stuff. Sourcing. They support... They make Dua Lipa mine her own lithium. That's right. That's right. Yeah, they support a lot of ethical lithium mining stuff and try to promote better consumer choice through that kind of stuff. It also has these accessories, which I really hope... They're very similar to the CMF phone accessories, but...

I really hope that you can use them when the Fairphone 7 comes out because the CMF Phone 1, only a couple of them work on the CMF Phone 2, which is a whole accessory ecosystem that only works for one really cheap phone. It's insane. And that's just like a lot of wasted plastic and stuff. So another interesting thing about it, it has this new switch on it that basically turns it into a dumb phone.

- I actually think this is pretty cool. - Really interesting. - That is really cool. - It's like a minimal phone switch. - Yeah, basically there's a switch on the side that turns it into the Moments UI, which makes everything monochrome and then has like five of your essential apps. So Calendar, Meet, Gmail, Chrome, Phone. - Sounds like a launcher switcher. - It's basically a launcher switch, yeah. - That's absolute gas. - Yeah, it's dope. Like this is a good, like why didn't they just do this on more phones? - I feel like you can do this from the App Store.

Well, yeah. No, no. Yeah. It's not having an integrated. Having an integrated slider is a cool. Is that fact that it's a slider? I could map that to a double press of a random button on almost any phone. No, but it's so different, too, because it's like that is that's a lifestyle choice. That is like that is like a OK, laugh all you want. But I'm telling you, it's like that is a choice you make because of the impact. It'll have a phone before the end of this episode.

Yeah. You guys aren't hearing me, right? It's like as soon as you bake it into software, it's not reflective of the impact it'll actually have on your life. This is a design thing. That's cool. I love that it's a switch. So like you're using your phone like normal and then you're like trying to go hang out with my family. The beauty of Android is I could just do this.

I don't need it built into the phone. I don't need the... I'm so sick of you green bubblers. I've been hearing this for like a decade. The beauty of Android is that all you have to do is spend three hours banging your head against the wall with like a separate Google Cloud server that you forward all this data to just so you... It's like, no, no, no, no. But isn't this like... It's a launcher. Isn't this...

that they're baking into hardware. Yes. Like I know everyone will always say this could have been an app. It's like the Fuji X half, right? Everyone always says, oh, this could have been an app. It's just a, why? But it's cool. How?

How is this different? You're saying it's baked in. In what way is it more baked in? Well, it has a physical hardware switch. Right, and so a lot of phones have a customizable button where you can map it to whatever you want, in which case you would map it to whatever launcher you grab from the Play Store. In what way is this more baked in than me mapping a custom button to a launcher from the Play Store? Well, in one way it is. Matter of fact, that's probably exactly what this is. It is vertical integration. It is.

In that it's the same company that made the phone, made the launcher. Yeah. I guess I give you that. It's sure. And the switch is teal. It's because it's a conscious design. That's cool. Yeah. It's a conscious design choice. You know what I mean? Like David said, because it's a vertically integrated choice, you can have other features and other design. I don't know the phone very well, but you can have everything support this one decision. Yeah. And we all know, we all know.

You can map anything you want to anything you want on an Android phone, but it is always annoying and it's always stupid and it never works exactly the way you want to. I love iPhone shortcuts. I could probably come up with something genius like this with an iPhone shortcut. And even those barely work. I think your view of shortcuts might be tainted by how bad the iPhone shortcuts are because iPhone shortcuts are bad and are frankly...

almost unusable compared to what I found like on an Android phone where I agree on the Zen phone from a couple of years ago or even the last Zen phone, you'll literally, you'll hit the button for the first time and it'd be like, what in all of your phone would you like to map this button to? And I go this app and then it goes, okay. And every time I press that button, it launches that app and it's great. Yeah. And I just, I feel like that's all that this is going to do. I feel strongly about this. I don't know if I'm articulating my argument very well, but I do think selling a phone with, with a dumb phone switch is very different than, uh,

Also, the only iPhone shortcut I've ever gotten to work consistently well is one that I made when I first got here, where I'd press an app on my home screen, an icon on my home screen, and it would search for a random... I would search GIFs for the word poop, and then pick a random one and text it to Adam. That was a slider. That worked. Dude, if I had the poop button on my phone...

totally different experience. Well, I mean, tech, okay. I mean, there is an action. I give Fairphone credit here because their dumb phone UI, the five apps are ones that you actually need where half of these dumb phone apps, like don't let you like look at your emails.

Right. So giving you Gmail here, thank you for realizing that some of us have to work and look at our Gmail. They still realize that this needs to be a phone. They just made the UI so that it's less like there's stuff everywhere and there's a lot of choices. It's just like a list with the time and essentials and stuff like that. Anyway, did you guys know it has 1,400 nits of peak brightness? They made a privacy-focused version that does not run Google. It's de-Googled.

A de-Googled version of Android called EOS that is made by Muwerna.

And that is $900. The normal Fairphone is 599 euros. This says Fairphone sells only the EOS model through its local partner or in the U. Okay, so in the U.S. you can only get it through a partner. It's 599 euro in about 700 U.S. dollars, which is still a lot, but you know. Would you put a SIM card in an EOS phone and ask if you want to initialize the media?

Anyone? Canon joke? Canon joke. Initialize. I'm like 0 for 3 today, you guys.

They have to be stupider, you know? Yeah, I guess. Yeah. They're too smart. It's no Google Drive. They're too smart. Yeah, that's right. That's right. Okay, so besides that, they are going to send me one. So I should have one probably for next week that we can look at and talk about and switch on and off. And press the crap out of that button. Let's see what happens. Yeah, it's a switch up and down. Up and down. Okay. Okay.

Wait, last question about that. Oh, yeah. Can I remap that Switch? I don't think so. It's probably worse than your usual Android phone. You can't remap it.

I'm guessing. Counterpoint, the Switch is pina colada colored. That's true. Damn, that is good. Well, it's more yellow. Anyway, they're going to make... Right now, they have four accessories for it. So there's a case accessory, which I don't know if you could really consider an accessory, but it does have a slot out for the other accessories. There's like a finger jammer thing where you put your finger in it so you can hold it easier. There is a wallet case that looks pretty

pretty good and there is a lanyard which is a choice so yeah I I don't know I'm excited wallet phone cases terrify me this is an episode for another day but I can't understand putting everything on your phone and then losing everything at once I will say

That's mainly what I'm worried about. What kind of pina colada is that? Okay. I got one last thing. Okay. There is this new Adobe Project Indigo camera app that got kind of like stealth launched.

This is quite interesting. So Mark Lavoie, who is the person that invented HDR Plus on the Nexus 6, I've talked with him extensively over the years. He is very smart. He basically created computational photography. He made the pixel cameras good. Yeah, he really defined the pixel camera look.

He also said that they made it based on art, which is interesting. Well, the Pixel 6, yeah. They used Renaissance art. And Pixel 7 and 8, they moved away from that a little bit. So anyway...

In 2020 or so, Mark left Google to go work at Adobe. And he said that he was going to be working on a universal camera app at Adobe. It made a lot of sense for him considering he like invented computational photography, right? So we were all kind of like waiting with bated breath to see what is this universal camera app that he's working on. It's been a long time. It's been like five years. And last week,

He dropped with Adobe this new app that's in super beta called Project Indigo. The cool thing is you don't actually have to have an Adobe subscription to download it, which is nice. It is currently only available on the iPhone, which is not nice. But, you know, it kind of makes sense in some ways. Anyway. Hard disagree. Well, I don't know. They have to develop whatever. Okay, so.

Basically, I read the technical paper on this because they released this whole paper about it. And effectively, what it is is just a intense, ramped-up version of what HDR Plus was doing on the original Pixel phones. So I just want to give a short primer about computational photography on smartphones. Generally, HDR on smartphones, the way that it does it is that it takes multiple really short frames and then it aligns them

and then it boosts the overall exposure of those frames. And generally, when you don't get a lot of light on a pixel, you have more noise, which is just random pixels that don't get the information. And when you up the exposure of all the pixels, you see the noise more. You know, there's this thing called the signal-to-noise ratio. So what they do with computational photography is because your phone has a gyroscope, it's able to know exactly what the pitch, yaw, and skew is of your phone at all given times. And so it can align the exact pixels over the course of, like,

seven frames, and that allows it to have a better signal-to-noise ratio 'cause it takes the average of every single pixel, does that. So what smartphones have done for a while now with computational photography is it's taken like seven frames and aligned those,

But when you do that, when you're not getting a lot of light, you also have to do a lot of noise reduction because you're upping. You're taking these really short exposures. You're upping the exposure. You have to do noise reduction that basically smooths out the image and then you have to apply sharpening. That's what's like led to this like smartphone plasticky look that we've had for a very long time.

And so Mark's vision for this new Project Indigo app was to try to kind of counteract that plasticky look. Also, because it's HDR, it crushes the highlights down and it brings up the shadows and it kind of creates a really flat sort of tone curve.

So what the new Project Indigo app does is a few things. One of the things is that it takes 32 frames of even shorter exposures, which will lead to lower noise, which is really cool. And I guess they can do that because they have faster processing in phones now. You know, when the Nexus 6 was out, it took a while. Once you press the button, it would process, process, process. But now these ISPs are super fast, so you're able to take way more exposures and align them more, which reduces noise significantly, which is quite cool.

They also did this, they have this new way of processing raw files. So Apple's pro raw on the iPhone, basically will take it's like a semi raw image. It's not true raw, because it's doing the demosaicing to push out the like pro raw file. This creates a new type of DNG that doesn't do the demosaicing, which is I have a whole separate we have a whole separate video on the studio channel about demosaicing that we can put in the show notes.

Practically, what it means is that you're gonna be able to get way more color dynamic range, which is really nice. You're gonna get way lower noise.

And then it also has all these new features with like long exposure photography that looks really good that also uses like 32 frames of one second exposures that looks awesome. It's gonna have pro controls, Adobe's adding all these Photoshop AI tools, like removing reflections in the mirror and stuff. So this new Project Indigo app overall, it's like basically they let Marc Lavoie cook for five years and they were like, do what you did for Google, but do it for us with the new technology that smartphones now have.

And then they're also integrating all of these other AI tools that Adobe has developed over the last few years. So it's going to be like a test bed for a lot of these features. It's currently free on the App Store. You can download it. You don't have to have an Adobe subscription, which is really nice. Do you need to have a test flight or something? Nope. While you were describing all the computational photography and stuff, I downloaded it and started playing with it. Yeah.

it's pretty nice i mean ui is pretty intuitive i've taken a few test images this podcast studio has perfect lighting so i'm not gonna be able to actually see what it's good at yet but i want to play with it yeah the one thing in the uh the white paper that i was like is that they're really in on hdr stuff and doing like tone mapping they developed this new type of jpeg that basically can like apply a tone map later and

I just think HDR looks bad. I just think it looks bad. It always looks bad. - It's a lot of HDR. - I forgot that he left to go to Adobe to do this. That was so long ago, but I am kind of excited for this. This seems interesting. - Yeah, it's cool. I mean, it's interesting. And if you look, we can also put the,

We can also put the white paper in the show notes. There are some samples in the white paper. Some of them are like, eh. But then you look at the long exposure stuff, and it looks really good. It looks very, very good. Part of the paper is he was saying smartphone photos can look good on your phone, but as soon as you put them on a big screen or try to print them, they look awful. And so they specifically were thinking about how can we take photos that are going to look good when you blow them up and not look plasticky and horrible.

So that's a nice little thing. So I'm pretty excited about this. MARK MANDEL: How long until you need an Adobe subscription?

Two weeks. Yeah, I mean... That's the thing I'm most surprised about this is you saying here's an Adobe product that doesn't need an Adobe subscription for it, which is wild. I mean, funny enough, when you download the app, it has the test flight looking icon where it has the blueprint chart thing that goes through it. So it's clearly like an alpha app, but it is interesting. And also it's weird to me because this is like, at least in my opinion, clearly a pro app.

You know, so like the fact that it is free without a subscription kind of is confusing to me. Yeah, I mean, it's got you can just point and shoot, but it does have a lot of pro controls. But yeah, regular people are probably not going to take all your photos and puts them into their AI research library. I kind of want to go test some of the long exposure stuff because it looks really good. So anyway, I got to Montauk. Ayo.

Yet again with it. We'll report back next week. Yeah, it is. We'll play with it Yeah, so the last time David and I drove out to Montauk to take pictures. It was so cloudy We didn't even take any pictures last time Adam and I drove out to Montauk to take photos We got home at 4:00 in the morning and then Google threatened me after I published my article. Oh my god. Yeah nice But you know who will never threaten you?

Trivia? Me doing trivia. I feel like you would. I feel like you'd have. David, if you get this question wrong... I'm gonna take away a point! You can't prove it. Next question. I might be able to. So we spoke a little bit earlier about Mario Kart World. In Mario Kart, you can choose between 50, 100, or 150 CC races. But, also in Mario Kart, what does the CC mean?

Credit card. Sabathia. Well, think about it. You a Yankee fan? Yes. Unfortunately, yes. Fair enough. Answers at the end, like usual. We'll be right back.

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All right, welcome back. All right, so this is actually the last episode of the month of June, which is where we usually do our crown and clown. We thought about it. We didn't have too much to say there, but in honor of the NBA finals, which ended in the month of June, we are going to attempt as a group, attempt, attempt,

to explain to David, who I assume did not watch the finals. I did not. What happened using tech terms. I don't even know who's in the finals. This is perfect. This is how we want to explain it to you so that you can appreciate the chaos that it was. The only reason I knew the Knicks were in it is because the people outside my window wouldn't stop screaming until four in the

Which is perfect because the Knicks lost right before the finals. They were not in the finals. They were in the semifinals. They were in the, yes, the Eastern Conference finals. Yeah, they were in the Eastern Conference finals. Yeah. So my method, I think, is actually a throwback to earlier this episode. Oh. I think it would be easiest if I explained it in terms of Mario Kart. So you know how in Mario Kart there's like a bunch of races? Yeah.

Imagine there's like a series of like seven races and whoever wins four races first gets the gold, right? And there are some characters obviously on each side. There are teams. Cow. And I think, you know, some of the biggest characters for this particular NBA finals would be, so the two teams were the Oklahoma City Thunder and the Indiana Pacers. The Oklahoma City Thunder have Mario on their team.

He's like the main character. He's the MVP of the league. Everybody knows who he is. He's having a great year. Is that the guy that was like, oh, they traded him. What the heck? No. So his actual name is Shea Gilgis Alexander, SGA for short. Oh, I did hear that. But this is Mario.

The other side has... That's Mario. Yeah. You know, teams expected to win. The other side have Bowser. They have Mario on their team. The other side, how would you... Who is Shea? Waluigi. Definitely Waluigi. Shea is Waluigi. Not everybody... It's an acquired taste, right? Some people would say he's overrated. Wait, Shea is? No, no, no. Waluigi. How?

Tyrese Halliburton is Waluigi. Yeah. Yeah. So they have this player. His actual name is Tyrese Halliburton, but we'll call him Waluigi. Wait, wait, you know, he's the guy who made that crazy shot against the Knicks to go to overtime in that one game. Remember you said you saw that clip of the guy who like dribbled up, dribbled all the way back, made that shot and it sent. Oh yeah. And then he lost. Yeah. And then the Knicks lost. The Knicks lost. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, I turned on my projector and the first thing that happened was that, and I was like,

whoa and then i changed the channel no that so like halliburton is waluigi because it's like most people a lot of people think he's a little bit annoying a lot of people think he is vastly overrated a lot of people are overrated a lot of people can't really stand the vibe but the contingent of of waluigi fans are like there's no one else what about wario

like is he more like mario no or no so he's no he's like more like mario's evil brother maybe waluigi isn't the right one that was who i went through i like that first is he tall yeah well i guess they're all kind of tall yeah maybe like and lanky

Is he tall? Is he tall in the Yankees? Okay, whatever. Okay, so Waluigi. So the races are happening. Is he evil? It's a team. It depends on who you are. Alex thinks so. Yeah. They're team races, but obviously first one to win. Mario's team is expected to literally win every race. They're such overwhelming favorites. It's not even close. And what team is that? And that's the Thunder. Thunder. They had an all-time season. It was great. Okay. But what weirdly happened was the first game, Waluigi's team won.

And I was like, oh. That's not common. That's not, that's, all right, we got a series on our hands. Second game, okay, Mario's team won, so we're back to 1-1. Third game, Waluigi's team gets another win. And the theme for a lot of these wins is like, you know how when you're in like last place in Mario Kart and you are kind of so far behind it doesn't really matter, but then you start getting all the best power-ups and then you start surging ahead and you go from dead last all the way to the top.

all the way to suddenly first in the last half of the last lap. That's like their thing. That's like Waluigi's thing. He'll be in last place, he'll seem like he's out of it, and the whole team's kind of not going to win, and it seems like they've accepted they're not going to win. And in the last half of the last lap, boom, power-ups, giant blimp thing, surge to the front,

First place, they win. That's how they win their games. Did they win the third game? That's how they've been winning all playoffs. So now they're up 2-1. And then Mario's team wins again, and it's 2-2. Then Mario's team goes up 3-2. So like, all right, it's been a nice Cinderella run. We kind of thought Waluigi's team had a shot here, but now it's 3-2, and Mario's team is probably going to win the next game. And then...

The fourth, this is the fourth game. Then this sixth game, Waluigi's team just smacks Mario's team. It's not even close. Really? Blue shelled. So, yeah, big time leading the whole way. No one behind him ever had a shot. So he gets to the finish line and it's like, okay, now we've got a critical game seven. Whoever wins this race wins the whole series. Mario's team or Waluigi's team, who you got. And in the first lap of this final race...

Waluigi's controller breaks. Yeah. Really, really sad. Wait, he broke something? Waluigi's controller breaks. In the game? Yeah. And so from that moment, his team never really has a shot. No way. Mario's team wins going away. Kind of a muted celebration because A, if that controller didn't break, it would have been a lot closer. Wow.

And Mario, our controller broke. He was in first. Yeah. He was cooking. But Waluigi, like three separate times during this playoff run, had been down by one point and at the very last second made a huge bucket and ended up winning the game. Like he was, people were literally calling him the moment because he just like. Gold coins. So did he break his red shell? He tore his Achilles. Yeah, he tore his Achilles. How did he do it?

Balling too hard. He was during the game. Yeah during the game. He was he was kind of playing through an half injury And then so did they like bring him away? Yeah, yeah, I think he got surgery before the game was over like I think they just took him straight to the hospital He was yeah on crutches, but the next day. He's got a picture with so my gosh, so yeah pretty dramatic I

Hopefully this analogy helps you appreciate that while Mario's team won in the back of everyone's head, if Waluigi's controller didn't break, I know not everybody's a fan, but that could have been a crazy game seven. So it would have been an upset if they won. It would have been an upset.

There's also like, I'm not going to say that Mario's team was like the most stacked team ever. You know what I mean? But it was sort of like Mario Bowser, Peach Luigi versus Waluigi dry bones. The like the fishing rod guy who like

pulls you off when you you know what i mean like a troop is in there that koopa troop is in there like a second dry bones for some reason yeah i can't wait to edit this because i'm putting all of them right next to their players what about burdo yeah burdo is definitely on wallow nemar nemar is koopa trooper for sure i think what about the new cow player uh not not that who's alex caruso

He's got a bring already, so maybe... Dude, he's toad. Alex Caruso's 100% toad. Yeah. Okay, well, that's really depressing for everybody involved. Yeah. It does sting. Like, even if you won, you'd be like...

Yeah. Okay. Mario actually went to Waluigi's locker room after the game and like pat him on the back and was like, it's going to be okay. Yeah, that's kind of BM. It's going to be okay. I'm going to go back to my trophy. Everyone who likes Mario was like, see, Mario's so classy. What a great. I think what they should have done is they should have stopped the game, waited for like six months for it to heal, and then played it. Interesting take. That's so funny. That is an interesting take. I think you should be the commissioner. I've never heard that. I think that's messed up.

They basically got a free win. It's interesting because Waluigi's team beat another team who a different player's controller broke on that team, so now there's... Oh, really? It's a whole thing. I mean, just like how Bowser gives Mario a free win in the game is because he's like,

Oh, no, my tail's so long. You can spin me around and throw me at the wall. I think one of the cool, unique things about basketball compared to other sports is that playoff basketball is also an endurance sport. It's not just about can you play basketball better than the other team. It's can you play basketball every other day for four weeks and your body still hold up. That's crazy. The end of the NHL playoffs are basically like, what?

what is what tape is holding you together after yeah like the end of finals i think i'm standing yeah yikes there were multiple people this year who were like oh yeah my foot was broken like i had uh like rib cracked oh my gosh i mean muscles tearing off that's true but there's still something going on with the nba lately because this is like the third achilles rupture in like

six months or something like that. Something like that, where it used to be like once a season. Now it's like, I think there was eight this season alone. Some crazy number. I'm cutting off because we're about 30 seconds away from something using the phrase pace and space. And this is not a basketball podcast. Yet. Yet. So David, do you feel like you understand the NBA finals? Yeah, but you could have just told me what happened.

Are you rooting for Waluigi next year? Yeah. Yeah, dude. You hope Waluigi comes back stronger than ever. You know, the whole idea of the anti-hero, you know, it's like based around Waluigi. And Tyrese is totally, excuse me, Waluigi is totally the anti-hero of the NBA right now. It's like in The Incredibles 1, you know, with... Frozone. No, no, no. No, Frozone's a good guy. With the bad guy who has the big hair and he's the kid.

Syndrome. Never watched that movie. Like he's the entry antihero, but you like have sympathy for him. He's not that bad. And I'm a Nick fan. I don't think Halliburton is that bad. I think he's just like, I was talking about very, no, no, no, no, no, no. You a few weeks ago, Adam, you came to work and you were looking kind of nift. And I was like, Adam, what's up? And you were like,

I just hate him so much. But that picture of Tyrese Halliburton in the Gucci loafers, man, it's so dope. His vibe is so good. But I hate him. He took a picture with his dog. How could you not like him? We got to take it back to technology with the trivia section of the podcast. Let's do it.

I need a pen. I don't even remember the first one. Oh. Question one. I-O versus I-Yo was in the news today, but I need you to give me as many I-O definitions and acronyms as you can give me starting now. Like just things it could mean? Yeah, but I won't accept people's names. Like initials don't count. And yeah, I guess that's my only rule.

I thought of more rules, but I don't care, too. I don't think any of us have very many to break the rules. I have like 10-ish on my sheet. I have one Marquez should have gotten, and I'm interested how he has it. David, you should at least know two. David, you should definitely know two. You mean it could be like the Google rule?

I thought I didn't think about that. Yeah, I'll accept Google IO the event as a. Oh, really? Well, you can't write it now. That's not an acronym. But Google IO just means I said definitions or acronyms. But also, David, I was talking about the IO acronym that we made an entire bonus episode about. What is that?

Okay. Are you serious? All right. Marques, you go first. What are you talking about? All right. One, two, three, four, five. I have five here. What? All right. Let's see. Wait. In, out. Input, output. That's the same one. That's the same thing. Darn. Okay. The state of Iowa. Yes. That is correct. The state acronym for Iowa. And IOTA. That's not an acronym. Uh.

That's not a... I would never use... Wait, wait, wait. Hold up. IO is not... IO is an abbreviation. IO is not an acronym. It's an abbreviation. If you had said... Come on. You said acronym. An acronym is an abbreviation. No, it's not. It's not, but I feel like it was fine. I specifically said place names are accepted in both the first cut to trivia and just now. So...

I'm not going to give you Iota, though, because I don't think that is really short for that. So we have two for you, Marques. Last one, Old MacDonald, How to Farm, E-I-E-I-O. Dang. I might have given you that on creativity. If that's the tiebreaker, I'll give it to you, Marques. Okay. Yeah. How many did he get? Two. Wait, what tiebreaker? As if you guys also get two. Wait, so only the person that gets it gets the point? But we have tiebreakers for that?

- Is this like hard? Am I? - Why is this happening? - I don't get why this is so much harder than any other trivia. - Well, it's usually not competitive. - Input, output.

And in Ultimate Frisbee, an inside out throw is called an I.O. That's true. I will accept that. It was not on my list, but Andrew, so unfortunately, Marquez is still winning because he does have the old McDonald tiebreaker here. I said only one of you would get points. I explained all of this. Oh, did you? I just missed that. I'm sorry about that, too. See? See? All right. All right, David. Input, output. Input, output.

and then i wrote google i o in cursive after the thing well after the buzzer but i didn't know well it doesn't matter anyways because marquez gets the let me fill you out on some other definitions abbreviations yeah please acronyms okay or io we have the top level domain that we did the whole episode on dot indian ocean uh we have one right there i didn't think about that when you're writing legal documents you end in io which is uh

is the acronym for the Latin phrase meaning, or it's a Latin phrase, in Ilo Ordine, which means respectively. You have Io, the moon of Jupiter. You have Io and Islet in Greece. There's a few other place names that don't really matter. There's a freshwater snail called an Io that I did not know about until researching this. Nice. There's actually a lot of them. But shout out for getting Iowa, Marques. Thank you. Shout out to Cain Clark. Still going on.

Wait, is Iowa not IA? No, it's Indiana, right? No, wait, hold on. It's IA, yeah. Yeah, okay, so shh. Uh-oh. So I win. Yeah, so Andrew wins. What about me with the Google IA thing? There we go. Wow, that's funny because when I Googled IA- I thought so and then I was- What is I- Oh, Idaho's ID. Adam. Idaho. And Indiana's IN. Idaho's ID? ID. You know what's really funny?

Is you know what told me that that I.O. was Iowa's state abbreviation? I just believed it. The Google AI search summary. Yeah. Idaho's ID? Yeah. Anyway, that question was painful and annoying, and I'm kind of mad at you guys for making that so tough. And us. It's us. Oh, yeah, we're the problem. Old McDonald would have given me credit for that. In Mario Kart, what does CC stand for? Oh.

I'll give you a hint. It's a it's answer the same thing it does with real life motorcycles I'll get to it in a bit But while we do this quick update on the score Marquez with 26 Andrew with 16 David with 30 I feel like it came to me. Is that not much of a hint? Yeah, that's what I was trying to avoid. Okay, flip it and read. Why would it be a trick question? What did you guys say?

Cubic centimeters. That's correct. No, what? Andrew, what did you say? Cubic centimeters. I said closed circuit. Wrong. Andrew and Marquez get the point. It is cubic centimeters. The reason I didn't want them to know that is because I was trying to trick them with specifically in Mario Kart, but it's the same thing in real life. Can you explain to me why it's that?

Engine displacement. The size of the engine. Yeah. So when you're in Mario Kart and you have 50, 100, and 150, why is it that it's harder? It's faster. It's not, it's faster. 150cc engine with more displacement is more powerful so that everything goes faster. Really? They're just, everything's faster together. I've been incorrect my entire life. I really thought that that was like the difficult. There might be people learning this in real time. Yeah, I thought that was the difficulty level. Real motors. It kind of is too. Guys, I apologize. I think I might be the problem. Ha ha ha.

Nevertheless, hopefully somebody... We don't update the score the day Andrew gets two points. Just saying. Just end it. Please end it. On that note, hopefully someone learned something from the last half hour of this podcast. I know that I did. I learned that Iowa is not IO. But I like the state anyway. It's pretty cool. Lots of corn. Thanks for watching. Thanks for listening. Maybe we'll be on Spotify videos someday, but not now. Catch you guys later.

Peace. Wait for us. Produced by Adam Molina, Ellis Rofin, partner of the Vox Media Podcast Network, and in charge of music, created by Vainsell. Bingo. Wait, you see that over there? It's the rails. We're way off the rails.

We should bring it back. Okay, fine. Okay, none of that's making it in, so I can get a clean cut. No, you gotta keep that in. Everyone loves our rambles. If a small budget's cramping your big summer plans, consider a low-rate home equity line of credit from America First Credit Union. Right now, with a new HELOC, you'll get an introductory 4.49% APR for the first six months. And that means more cash to get stuff done.

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