USB-C iPhone Confirmed and YouTube's Redesign!
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All right, welcome back to another episode of the Waveform Podcast. We're your hosts. I'm Marques. And I'm Andrew. And in today's episode, we have new iPads, release of nothing headphones. YouTube made a whole bunch of changes, and I just want to go over all of them. And to wrap it up, Marques, you really want to talk about an EV Rolls-Royce. I have thoughts. It's not just about the Rolls-Royce, but it's about the car that it represents.

I'll explain when we get there. So you're buying one? No, no, no. Just a spoiler? Okay, cool. Not that crazy. All right. But first, we got to talk about the USB-C iPhone confirmation, I guess is what we could say. Yeah, I want to open this up by when I first saw the news article.

I see it in my head. I'm thinking of writing the podcast for this week and I just skip it because I'm like, we should talk about this on the podcast. No, because if I bring it up, Marquez is going to say, it's not going to happen. I've heard this a million times. It's not even worth talking about. And I thought he's right.

And then I saw it all over Twitter and it seems a little more... Yeah, this is different because this time it came from an active Apple executive who says, yeah, we're going to have to comply. So just to fill in what the story is, so obviously the iPhone has been lightning for years and years.

And we've always thought about what if there was a USB-C iPhone, what if it was better than lightning, but it's never happened. And it's been increasingly more and more likely that they'll go like portless and just avoid USB-C altogether. But lately, there has been some legislation drumming up in the EU that would require standardization of all phones to use USB Type-C. And of course, the iPhone is sold in Europe, so that would mean that they need to sell a USB-C iPhone in Europe only.

And then the dominoes start falling and you're like, well, I guess you just make a USB-C iPhone now.

That's just been what's burbling up. And like we hear that they'll standardize by a certain year and we hear that this is coming up soon. And we've never heard anything from Apple about it because why would they ever confirm anything like that happening to them? But we both have a confirmation that this rule is going into place. And we now have Joanna Stern on stage asking to Apple executives about the ruling and getting a response, which included the words,

We'll comply. Yeah, that's why I wanted to put confirm in quotation marks. There's still like this little bit of hesitancy, but I think we decided it's only like two minutes of their response. Yeah, let's play. So let's play it and we'll pause it a couple of times and say a few thoughts we have. I have thoughts for sure.

the eu has approved legislation to create a common charger in fact they said in a press release yesterday in 2024 a usbc port will become mandatory for a whole range of electronic devices such as mobile phones tablets and headphones i think that includes you guys is apple moving to usbc well maybe i can step back a little bit

You may. Just stop right there. If that's already the start and we know it's Apple, you know this is going to be the most PR response possible. Of course. Also...

Is there an airplane playing in that? Because like we're near an airport and I thought that was playing here, but I think they might also be another place that has. Can't stop the show. Can't stop the show. Just got to keep it rolling. Also, but worth keeping in mind, we're talking about the iPhone because that's the interesting one. But also Apple makes a USB lightning mouse, the magic mouse. They make a lightning headphone, which would be all AirPods cases and the AirPods Max and

And they make the first-gen iPad, which is lightning. They sell a bunch of other lightning accessories. Magic keyboard is also. Keyboard is lightning. Trackpad is lightning. So all of that is looped in. I don't know exactly how the law is written yet, but it's interesting Joanna loops that stuff in. But let's hear their answer for the iPhone. You've probably heard me say for years that I don't mind governments telling us what they want to accomplish. But usually we've got some pretty smart engineers to figure out the best ways to accomplish them technically. Yeah.

And an example of that that I love to give is for years and years, mobile phones had to satisfy a hearing aid compatibility spec, very prescriptively described by regulation that said, here's what you have to do to be compatible with hearing aids. The problem is it didn't work.

But all of us had to do it. I don't know what that means. And so we came up with a new way of doing hearing aids. You want USB-C? Let me tell you about hearing aids. Hearing aids. I see where he's coming from. That actually worked. So what we were accomplishing is what the government wanted, was to have hearing impaired people be able to use phones. But we did it in a way that worked better. And we've been in an argument over this one for well over 10 years. And over 10 years ago, the push...

from the EU, look, they're well-meaning. I get the fact that they want to accomplish some good things. What's to do micro USB? And standardized as a micro USB. If we have standardized micro USB, that chart doesn't exist. Neither of those happened.

And so we have been in this little bit of a disagreement. But part of what, of course, they wanted to accomplish is why should people have all these different power adapters? So we got to what we think was a better place, which is power adapters that had detachable cables, all of them USB-A or USB-C, and largely moving USB-C. But you choose the cable that was appropriate for your device, whether that's one of ours or somebody else's.

And what that allowed you to do is have over a billion people, not a small number of people that have that connector on the left, right, to be able to use what they have already and not have to be disrupted by that and cause a bunch of e-waste.

as well. I mean, because what are you going to do with these cables over time? They're no longer useful. Again, billions of them, right? Because everybody has more than one cable. And so we preferred that path. Governments get to do what they're going to do. And obviously, we'll have to comply. We have no choice, as we do around the world, to comply to local laws. But we think the approach would have been better environmentally and better for our customers to not have a government be that prescriptive.

Where to start? I feel like it starts off slow, and then all of a sudden he's like, boom, boom, boom, and you're like, hold on a minute. My hot take is I agree with everything he said until the very end. Which part of the very end? Which is better for our customers. I also disagree with better for our environment. I agree. I agree, actually, with everything he's saying about the way that it's being prescribed and

Except Lightning kind of sucks now. So it's like, yes, moving to USB-C is the right thing and it's what we wanted and of course it's going to be better for everyone because USB-C is great. But...

The way they're doing it, which is basically the way he described, like, the government wanted to standardize micro USB a long time ago. And that would have been great in the time where everything else was micro USB, but then we wouldn't have gotten any innovation to get better, which is how we got USB Type-C. So when we went from Apple had, like, 30-pin, and then they moved to Lightning, they'd standardized...

micro USB back in the day, we never would have gotten lightning and we never would have gotten USB-C, right? So you have the, I like the idea of what he's saying, which is the government should have more of like an end result that is ideal, which is less e-waste and better experience for customers. And then let the engineers and the smart people who work for the companies decide how to get to that result and satisfy some checkboxes.

rather than the government going, here's the piece of tech you have to use. That's the actual problem that we have with this weird ruling. The end result is going to be getting a USB-C iPhone, which is a good end result, but the way we're getting there sets the precedent for like,

well what if something better comes along we just standardized and mandated usb type c i get weird i guess like oh man you guys are both throwing a million things out and we're gonna uh so like i can't there's we don't know what the official law is in terms of like we're standardizing usbc when are we allowed to upgrade do we know like a x x amount of years that this is because like

I can't imagine it's going to be some sort of law where it's like USB-C forever. And in terms of saying, oh, well, we could have tried to mandate micro USB, but we never would have taken the next steps forward. Micro USB took a step forward. 30-pin took a step forward. They both did take steps forward into new, better cables.

And in the sense, I just didn't love what he was saying of like, well, we would have been stuck with micro USB. Well, you were 30 pin and then you went to lightning. Like you still made the change. You still made a bunch of people have to change their...

And then I still have an issue with how he says that of like, well, why are we going to make all these people change their cables when Apple itself doesn't even use the same cables across their landscape? We just got an iPad that has the dumbest dongle I've ever seen in my life. And Apple loves selling dongles. Like this almost feels like

oh, hey, we're going to go to USBC and enjoy our $15 dongle that, you know, we have to because the government made us do it. I'm surprised they're not like hopping on this to increase their dongle sales. Well, okay, here's the other thing about Lightning is it makes Apple a lot of money, which is the Made for iPhone program, the MiFi, Made for iPhone, M-I-F-I, Made for iPhone. You have to get it certified. Apple gets a little bit of a cut. Every time you sell a Lightning certified accessory, a little bit of that goes to Apple.

It's not a zero amount of money. It's a real thing. No, it's a ton of money. And they give up a little bit of that control over how things interface with the iPhone by being required to switch to a different controller. I'm sure Apple would love to go give us a set of requirements to hit and we will make our next generation connector hit that, but it won't necessarily be USB Type-C.

So if you mandate... So I pulled up the thing, which is like, okay, USB Type-C must be a common charger for all phones and electronic devices. In an effort to reduce e-waste and inconvenience with incompatible chargers, under the new rules, consumers will no longer need a different charging device and cable every time they purchase a new device and can use one single charger for all of their small and medium-sized portable electronic devices, including laptops. I mean... So that would be fine if you just gave us that rule...

and said, now all of your devices must have the same charger, period. Okay, they could all be USB-C or they could all be something new that we're working on. And if others have other accessories, they can't be micro USB, they can't be some of them lightning, some of them USB-C, whatever. They should all be the same so you could use one charger for them all. And that's a great goal. I love that. I love having one charger for everything. But to decide that it's USB-C now

means that they'll be able to decide what it is in the future and just say whenever you move on like it's 2024 for mobile phones tablets e-readers earbuds digital cameras headphones headsets handheld video game consoles and portable speakers and then 40 months total for laptops I understand the sentiment that you're saying in that like X amount of government control and deciding this could potentially stunt technological growth but

it's hard to argue it for Apple when they're using two different types of chargers, which is like what you said. But like in terms of e-waste, they are producing e-waste because of

Having two different types of chargers where you can't universally even use the same charger within the Apple ecosystem. The thing though, iPhone and iPhone accessories typically all charge via lightning. Yeah. So like AirPods. So you use your iPhone lightning charger to charge the iPhone and to charge AirPods and to charge whatever other made for iPhone stuff that you have.

And the fact that Apple also makes other things that charge with USB Type-C then makes it muddy.

because they might have two chargers. I think the fact that they have other types, like I would argue the majority of people, if they have an iPhone, also have something that charges via USB-C. Everything else. Yeah, everything else that they own that's not an iPhone or iPhone accessory. And then like laptop, iPad, just regular school laptop that's not Apple. I mean, Bluetooth speaker. Like there are a million other things that they could have that have USB-C. And I think

And I don't know, like, I know nothing about politics or governing or anything like that. But this seems like an easier thing to implement when you can prove that the company that has to make the biggest change already is using this type of connector that you're forcing them to use. Yeah, Apple was, like, first in line to do, like, USB-C for laptops and stuff. So they, like, they...

It makes a lot of sense, I think. I also don't just love how they're talking about environmental aspects when I think a lot of the stuff that they do feels fairly anti-environment in some senses, including right now the dongle that you have to have to charge a Gen 1 Apple Pencil on an iPad that now comes in a new box that doesn't even come in the box with the iPad. It's just harder to take it at face value. Yeah, exactly. So I agree with...

With the path that he took to explaining why he doesn't like this, the judgment, but hey, we're going to get a USB-C iPhone now, it sounds like. Well, okay. And then the last thing we have to talk about is he did not say 100%

We are getting USB-C iPhone. He said we will comply. So there are some people out there who think that might not. Okay, so there's several. I'm pretty sure it means USB-C iPhone. There's several ways of complying. This is why I think I might want to make a video explaining this. One is they could make all of the 2024 iPhones light USB-C. Or...

They could make just the iPhones sold in Europe USB Type-C, technically, and then all the rest would be lightning. That would be weird. I don't see them doing that. I don't either. And it's also AirPods and all these other things. Or they could not sell any of their lightning accessories in Europe.

I don't think they would do that either. I don't think they would do that either. They think that they would only be able to sell the USB-C things in Europe. I think the phone would still have to go USB-C though because it comes with the charger and that's wrong. They just wouldn't sell the phone in Europe. Not sell the phone at all. Not sell the iPhone in Europe. Okay, that's not happening. Yeah, I was going to say that's probably not happening.

And so, yeah, I think the most likely thing is their next 2024 iPhone will be USB-C for everyone. So some people are thinking a portless iPhone would be considered compliant. This is interesting. I'm not sure if I agree with that or not. So right now you can get a USB-C MagSafe charger.

Right. So if you have a USB-C brick, USB-C to the MagSafe puck charges on the back of the phone. So you don't need to charge via that port. And we did talk about this a while ago, which is like Apple does seem to be aiming to get rid of those outside intrusions, including the port. Yeah. So what if they just go middle finger to both of you? No ports for you. And we just get rid of the port entirely. And is that technically complying? I guess so. Technically. Yeah.

but can they really go mag safe is not that good will it be that good by 2024 it's one of those things that i bring up because i saw people saying and then i say it out loud and i'm like i don't think that's i don't think it's going to be that good by 2024 so yeah that we'll see this is all it's all very interesting but we brought up that ipad and i kind of i think we should talk about the ipads yeah you missed last week and we david and i just very quickly went over like what they got announced that we mostly talked about

Again, how stupid that dongle was, how Gen 1 iPad kind of makes no sense, and how I believe, what is it, the last Intel iPad Air is basically the exact same thing as... The A-series iPad Air. Yes, sorry, the A-series iPad Air is basically the same as this new baseline iPad, except you actually get Gen 2 pencil support. Yeah, and a laminated display. Yeah, there's some things that are like...

Very confusing about this iPad. I was just talking on another podcast about this, but this feels like the most Tim Cook iPad ever. They are so good at making ladders of products where you have the baseline version, and then if at any point you look a little bit to the side and you see a slightly shinier one, you're like, well, what if I spend a little bit more getting that slightly nicer one?

And then you go, oh, it's only 64 gigs for that one. So I guess I should get the upgraded storage one. And then suddenly that's more expensive. And then you're like, oh, that's the same price as the baseline. I hate this so much. This happens with the iPad. And it's like they have this ladder built for you to go as high as you can possibly go. $329 for the baseline iPad. It's been that price for a long time. And it's staying that price, annoyingly. Old iPad. But you know what? It's still just fine. It's a tablet, right? Yeah.

Then you go, all right, well, this new 10th gen iPad is nicer. It's newer. It's USB type C. I kind of want a nicer iPad. Oh, but it's only 64 gigs. So $450 is too high. But because it's only 64 gigs, I'm looking at the upgrade, which jumps to 256, which is $599. So now it's $599. That's the same price as the base iPad Air.

So in your brain, you at least think a little bit like, oh, for that much money, I could just get an iPad Air. But guess what? The $599 iPad Air, 64 gigs. This makes me so sad. So now you jump up on the ladder again. You go from $6,400, $600 to like $700. And then you're like, oh, $700.

I'm that close to the iPad Pro. I might as well look and you just keep going. And then you realize you can't even get Final Cut. You get a M2 MacBook Pro Extreme and then you're spending $20,000. Yeah, that's how it goes. They walk you right up to the top of the ladder. Right up to the top. Yeah, that's what basically I see is the price of this iPad slots right in to be a perfect rung on the ladder in between the iPad Air or the baseline iPad, which is what you probably should get.

And then the whole confusion of the dongle and the $250 keyboard accessory is weird to me. I don't understand that. There's a new two-piece keyboard with a function row. Yes, we did talk about that quite a bit because why the new accessories for M2 iPads are not going to get the function row when that makes way more sense to put a function row on it. Yep, but we don't get that. So it's just for this iPad, you get that new two-piece keyboard

Magic keyboard case with a kickstand, which is nice, and the little functioner on the keyboard. And yeah, it's $250. So if you get that and the iPad, that right there, if you don't even upgrade storage, is $700.

It's great. $700? Like, that's nuts. You can get a lot of computer for $700. So you got to really want to be the guy that's going to make your iPad a computer. Well, that person should just get the nicer iPad. Yeah, for sure. Anyway, you can see how it builds up. I hate all of it. The bottom line is the product is fine, but it's like weird in its price bracket and weird in its execution. Listen, I understand that, you know,

productions more expensive they were adding nicer things to the ipad in general to make it to take a step up from the baseline ipad but i think most people can agree and it's easy for us to say over apple but it would have just been nice if the baseline ipad stayed at 329 and just got a new look

It would be nice if this iPad was $329. Yeah, yeah. If this iPad was $329, no one would care about the Gen 1 Apple support. No one would care about the dongle. No one would care about all the other stuff. It would make so much more sense. It just would have been like, cool, it got a facelift. It matches everything else now. But to knock the price up that much to get basically just the quote-unquote all-screen display that everyone loves. Yeah.

Yeah, weird. It is funny, though. This is still like an iPad a lot of schools might buy. And I think schools love a home button. I don't think so with the base. Wait, schools like the home button? Yeah. So then they would stick with the base one. The base base. Yeah, I think. Why would schools get this one? They can get the baseline one. No idea. Yeah.

USB-C? I can't wait to see the sales on this. I'll sadly be wrong no matter what, and I'll be very upset about it. Plenty of them. We should talk about one more thing before the break, which is the new Nothing Ear Stick. Nothing has made, so far now, their original noise-canceling headphones. Then they made the Nothing Phone 1. Now they're coming back, and they've made a $99 pair of plastic earbuds that come in a little stick, like a little lipstick earbud.

It's much bigger than a lipstick thing. Yeah. But that's the inspiration anyway. Yes. And there's, you know what? There is a list of the features it has. I'd rather talk about the features that it doesn't have because it is exactly what we thought it would be. It's basically if the ear ones are the AirPods Pro, these are the AirPods. No silicone tip, no active noise canceling. And my favorite part, which I told you this morning, and I would like you to repeat your reaction to it, was lipgloss.

Last week or two weeks ago. They bumped up the price of the ear ones to 149 Yeah claiming production increases. Well these now slot in right at 999 dollars Which was exactly where the ear ones were two weeks ago. I called it on the podcast last week I think this is hilarious that it actually happens to too obvious. I

Do they think we're all idiots? You have to make that price increase before you announce this is coming out and then do it. You can't tease it months ago, then bump it up two weeks before, and then slot it in exactly where it was. It seems insane. It's insane. I mean, I get that every company's got their public-facing reason for doing something and then the corporate reason behind the scenes. I'm sure their public-facing reason for the price increase was,

oh, you know, these are more expensive to produce and in lower volume, we'd really like quality to be high. So we're going to bump them up from 99 to 149. But behind the scenes, they were like, but we're also going to make a $99 pair of plastic earbuds that slide in right at this exact spot. Yeah, nice one.

Nothing. Yeah. Not my favorite move of the tech world, I think, ever. Before we go to trivia, I'm also going to throw this out here because I know Marquez won't talk about it. Taylor Swift broke the Spotify record for most streams of an album in the first 24 hours. The underdog. Absolutely dominating. They said she couldn't do it. They said she couldn't. Yeah. Just 185 million streams in 24 hours and that's only on Spotify. That's insane. That's the record? Yeah.

I think the record was 182 by Bad Baby or 170 something by Bad Baby. There's never been like a YouTube video that got like. No, no, it's all an album streamed in 24, in the first 24 hours it was released. Oh, the whole album had that. 185 million streams. That's pretty sick. Because I know there's been some crazy like, like, like K-pop singles I'll see on YouTube trending. They'll have like 100 million views in like two days. Like what happened? Still not.

It's still not 185, but I'm just like, YouTube's got to have some crazy, crazy records. There's some crazy numbers. I would love just like a sheet of how many times something got streamed in 24 hours, in the first 24 hours. Most viewed YouTube video in a day. What do you think the YouTube record is? It was very recent, wasn't it? Oh, it's K-pop. It's all K-pop.

IQUI. It's a lot of music. You ever heard of IQUI? I have not. But I love them and I love all our listeners that love them and I stan them. These are crazy numbers. Crazy numbers. YouTube numbers? This is a wiki of the most viewed online videos in the first 24 hours. And yeah, this is a... Oh no, it's a film. I think it's still on YouTube. Okay, I'm going to go with the music videos. Okay.

Number one, BTS. Number two, BTS. Dynamite and butter. 101 million views in a day and 108 million views in a day. Wow. Oh my God. In a day. 2018 YouTube Rewind was correct. This is what we want. Is this what you want?

Then there's three in a row, Blackpink, Blackpink, and Blackpink. 80 million, 86 million, and 90 million in a day. All these are YouTube. Then BTS, Lisa, BTS, and BTS. And then Taylor Swift at number 10.

with me do you know that song i don't know of course i know i don't know that had 65 million views in a day that is still a shocking that's because that that video was released before the album came out also oh this is a single from the album or something that's like four albums ago despite it only being a couple years ago that was from lover which was like right before covid record for most of you brandon yuri panic at the disco great song no

Cut that if I'm wrong. Top videos are either K-pop or T-pop. I was right. I was right. Cut that if it's not funny. There's some trailers, though. Holy smokes. Holy smokes. These can't be. Yeah, these are all in the first 24 hours. All I wanted to do is say that Taylor Swift is the best and I've sent this podcast into absolute ruin. I'm sorry. I just the Spider-Man No Way Home trailer.

trailer. Not surprised. 355 million views in the first 24 hours? That's a... Wait. That's what Wikipedia says. The number of worldwide views accumulated in the video's first 24 hours. Spider-Man No Way Home. Wait, let's sort by rank. Is it the YouTube link? None of these have 350 million views. Is this... It might not be YouTube then. It's gotta be on other places, combining them. Is it just like combined? Yeah, I'm throwing this whole list out, Wikipedia.

This is insane. I don't believe it. Ignore everything I've said for the past 12 minutes about YouTube and Wikipedia records. Just end it with saying congratulations to Taylor. Congrats to Taylor. Let's go to trivia. Just hit your head on the microphone. I know she was waiting for my congratulations. Did she go to the Met Gala, do you think? You were there. I don't remember if she was there. She must have not been there. She wasn't. Anyway. There were rumors.

What's up, guys? Welcome back to the pod, Marques. Yeah. All right. So first question. This might be a little bit of an easier one, you know, for what we do here. But, you know, there's a little twist on it to make you guys think. So we all use PDFs, right? You use PDFs. I use PDFs. Adam uses PDFs. Professionally. I fax things.

Leave. No fax is allowed. But PDF is an acronym. So what does PDF stand for? And I've got, it's a multiple choice one. So A, portable document format. B, personal directory file. C, portable directory format. Or D, portable document file. Oh no. Okay, I think I know. I think I've got one, yeah. Yeah.

I appreciate the multiple choice on that. I very much appreciate it. All right. Let's take a break. We'll be right back.

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Amazon Pharmacy presents Painful Thoughts. The guy in front of me in the pharmacy line is halfway through an incredibly detailed 17-minute story about his gout, a story likely more painful than the gout itself.

Next time, save yourself the pain and let Amazon Pharmacy deliver your meds right to your door. Amazon Pharmacy. Healthcare just got less painful. All right, we're back. I would like to talk about a new decision that YouTube made. Yes. YouTube made a really big choice in...

updating and changing a bunch of features on the design of their site this week. And I agree with every single one of them. - I have a very similar sentiment as you, and that is the reason I wanted to talk about this because I think you and I, and most listeners out here, when we hear redesign, we get very worried because redesigns usually mean

I need to relearn this entire website that I use every day. I'm going to absolutely hate it. I am still an old Reddit user. Just saying. Baffling decisions on many redesigns of the past. Yeah. No, this one was good. This one was good. So it's the site and it's the mobile app too. Correct. So I think there's a lot of good stuff here. And just to walk through some of the highlights, like there's a lot more, it's a pretty consistent new UI, but there's a lot more rounded corners. The subscribe button is no longer red.

It's graduated over the years. It used to be yellow. Fun fact, I don't know how old people are watching this. Oh, yeah, it was yellow. Yeah, a few years ago, every YouTuber said, smash that yellow button. And there's many, many old YouTube videos of people saying to smash that yellow button. Then it turned red and everyone panicked and had to explain. Now you smash a red button.

Now, it's just going to be the opposite black or white based on if you're using dark mode or light mode. But it's contrasty and it's this nice rounded button. And I actually think it looks better. It's more obvious because it was just like red text before. And now it's like a real button. I think it's better. But, you know, it's just a sub button. That's a vanity thing. You still have the join underneath the subscribe button. So once you subscribe, then the join button pops up. It's smart.

But aesthetically, it's just cleaned up. It's nicer. There's a little bit of reflection now in dark mode of like the light from the video spilling out in ambient mode. It's good. I think like my overall, the vibe it feels like is, first of all, let's make this feel more like an app, which is what every single website in the world is doing right now. Let's make it. A lot of people are comparing it to like Material You almost, like Google's making it more Material You-like. A little bit. I think the easiest way to describe it is before there were a lot of breaks in the page, kind of like,

The sidebar was a slightly different color. So you had a hard line down the side. You had a hard line on the top for the header. Everything now is just kind of blended into the same background. It's very...

functional it's very like button actionable button based like that's everything you have there and everything just feels more condensed together in the mobile and the desktop version yeah you said rounded corners everything looks a little more like a button that you might find on a phone you have less separation in like the description and the subscribe button and the channel banner and everything like that and i agree i really like it and the reason i like it is because

While they made all these changes that we're listing everything is still super familiar. I'm not Scattered all over looking for new sidebars new recommended pages new hamburger menus here and there everything is basically in the exact same spot, right? Yes, it's like a fresh coat of paint instead of like reorganizing things instead of tearing down a wall and opening up the case exactly Say yeah, I think this is a good one I think that means their next update will be absolute chaos, but this is a good one. Oh, God, I

This is a good one, YouTube. We appreciate that. Two new features also for mobile that I really liked. Pinch to zoom while playing a video. I think that could be really helpful. And like you can move around the frame. Yep. So you can pinch, which will fill the frame, and then you can pinch again and keep moving in to the video. Cool. I like that a lot. And then there's like a new scrubbing feature. So previously, if you were to scrub the circle on the timeline, you would just kind of see what frame it was at. Now it expands.

I've kind of been comparing it to, do you know if you're doing like trim on your, like an Instagram video or something and it brings up the whole timeline and kind of, or if you're working on slow-mo video on like your Android phone or something like that. So now you've got a whole timeline under so you can see many more frames and where you're kind of scrubbing to. Yeah, more precise. Both great new features. Yeah, it's a win. I kind of, this, remember when they first introduced the retention graph in the,

Oh, yeah. Then the scrub thing. I think that turned out to be pretty cool because a lot of videos now I scroll to sometimes there's like a comment with a timestamp, which is one thing. But the comments are so far down. Usually I just start scrolling and I see a spike in retention and I just like

fast forward and just watch that part and if that part hooks me which it usually does because that's why there's a spike then I'll watch more of the video it turned out to be pretty cool I'm still do you think there will be a day when that graph bites some creators in the butt because

In some scenarios, you can see when people are skipping an integrated mid-roll or end-roll or something like that. I have seen that. I have seen really, really big spikes. And I was like, whoa, this video is mostly flat with one big spike. And I move to the spike and it's somebody ending an ad. Exactly. So it's nothing to do with before the video. It means they enjoyed the beginning of the video and they just wanted to pop past that 30 seconds. That's going to happen sometimes. That's fine. I think the trade-off is that we get a lot of really cool like

Dream does his face reveal and there's this arc of people watching more and more and then the spike and then there's other later parts where he says certain things and there's spikes. And it's just kind of interesting to see a little bit of other people's behavior on a video. Great user experience. Seems minimal on affecting creators. So overall, good feature. Do you remember...

Back in the day, this is old YouTube. Okay. They would show the comment section below the video, and then they would also show other people logged in watching the same video at the same time as you. They used to do that. That sounds weird. And it was really interesting because when a video would first launch on like a big creator's channel, you would see just like tons of people watching the video at the same time.

And then there was like everyone like engaging in the comments like, oh my God, a lot of people are here right now. They'll probably see my comment. And then like comments would go crazy in the first few minutes. And then slowly, obviously the video gets older and less and less people watch. And then if it was an old enough video, you might be one of only two or three people watching it at the same time. And then you could click on that person's profile. You could message them. You could leave them a comment because you were seeing other people watching the video at the same time. Low key, I...

I kind of want something like that back. So I don't remember that, but as you're explaining it, it sounds like they tried to reintroduce that with previews or premieres. Premieres are cool because everyone's watching at once, but it was just something about knowing...

And being able to reach out to someone else who's watching the same video right away. Well, when your user base has exponentially grown in the last 15 years, that gets harder and harder. It is definitely crazy. Unless you're on smaller channels. Especially if it gets 100 million views in a day. Exactly. Yeah. There's not a lot of BTS stans out there who would be able to talk to a small group of people. But I do think Premiere could have been that. I think they just kind of messed up the Premiere rollout. And Premiere is something I still would like to see

because I think it's an interesting idea. And we've had some cool videos that could have done great, but watching the smartphone camera awards at 720p is terrible. Yeah, Premieres, I think you can do 1080 now, possibly. That's still not good. But it's still a live stream and people don't watch live streams at their highest quality. But I think that's also my, yeah, I agree. Premieres should be better, but...

Yeah, we need to find more ways to make it interesting and make it enticing. Mr. Mobile, he does a lot of premieres. He does, yeah. And I want to ask him, pick up his brain about that, probably get him on the podcast and interrogate him about it. You did mention, though, only 1080p and 4K. Let's quickly, something we didn't get to talk about because we've been very busy, but I know is near and dear to your heart, is a few weeks ago we saw YouTube potentially testing 4K video

being set only for Premiere users. Paywalled, yeah. Yeah, paywalled. So since then, they've reverted that change and that is not happening, but I think it's worth a conversation because...

most importantly here is there's plenty of times we've seen features tested and reverted and then they come back later anyways um and i think this could potentially be that or is this something that we could see at the next milestone i know ak is so far away and it's weird to think about but just as an example like will we see okay 4k is your standard for freemium

- There you go. - Linus swayed me. - Swayed, oh, okay. So I have Linus' thing at the end here.

just just to like tell people to go watch great video by the way i think there's a lot of really useful information he knows a lot more of it because he runs floatplane and knows the very very very very very very very very lower end scale of google because google skills and the challenges of running a stream streaming service exactly um yes i was not expecting you to say you were swayed though so you kind of messed up my video swayed me no okay so 4k look i think

I initially had the same reaction as a lot of other people, which is like, you were just rule number one on the internet. If you offer something for free, moving that free thing behind a paywall, no one will think that's a good idea. Yeah. That's like the easiest way for people to dislike something. You clearly can offer it for free. You are now. Why would you move that to being paid? Rule number one, right? So they broke rule number one. So everyone gets mad.

But the fact is, most people don't watch in 4K. And on top of that, which is really well articulated by Linus, the bandwidth required to stream in higher resolutions and higher bit rates, which is massive files, is dramatically higher than ever. Not only that, but it is growing at an exponential value of storage base, but in terms of cost.

Cost per storage and cost per hosting fees. They've basically flatlined and we're not seeing decreased spending on that So they're just getting thousands and thousands of more and more hours of 4k videos from people's iPhones being uploaded and Not really getting any benefits from it while their user base grows and grows It's just like they're eating all this cost right so I get that and it's always been like well You you have YouTube and Google money like you can you can eat that. Yeah, but

The real point is almost nobody watches in 4K. That's the real learning here. Right now, how many of you are watching this on your phone? Boom, right away, that's half of you. You're not watching in 4K. Unless you have a Sony Xperia 5 II, you're not watching in 4K. Even if you have that phone, you probably didn't go into the selector and pick 2160p because your internet probably isn't great enough right now to be watching this whole podcast, this whole long clip.

- Someone's on a street corner with millimeter waves somewhere watching this in 4K with a Sony experience. - To that one guy, please leave that comment. I know there's a non-zero amount of people watching on that phone in 4K right now and it's hilarious to me. - I love it. - But that's half of the people, right? Then I look at my YouTube analytics and it's like you can see device type, you can see the smart TVs and the computers and laptops and Google on mkbhd.com, we have Google Analytics and you can see the resolutions of people's screens.

And it's a single digit percent of people who even have a 4K monitor. 1080 is very popular. 1440 is very popular. 4K is rare. So if you have a 4K monitor and a good enough internet connection to watch 4K and you go into the selector and select 4K, that is a tiny fraction of people who actually deserve to be mad at this decision because something that they were previously getting for free is now a paid, would have been a paid feature.

But that's such a small percentage of people that it made total sense to do it and to actually make some money from it because people will subscribe to premium and you give them a really good reason to. But I think my point is, and Linus's point is, that's almost nobody. So I'm swayed. I believe him.

- I messed up all of my notes. - Why, were you gonna argue and like-- - No, I wasn't gonna argue. I was gonna be like, we're the good guys. Everyone go tell Linus he sucks and that we're the best and we fight for the people. I wonder almost though, I guess offering it for premium, which I will say without this being paid well or anything, premium is super worth $5 a month, right? - I think it's-- - Is it more now? - I think it's more. - It's nine? - Yeah, I think so. - Sorry.

I just think YouTube premium, even at $9 a month, and I know everyone can't afford that, but like you said, not a lot of people watching 4K. I think it's super worth it.

Yeah. I'm just looking at my YouTube premium benefits because it likes to summarize how long you've had premium and what you've gotten out of it. 2,590 ad-free videos. Sorry, 2,590 hours of ad-free videos. Oh, that's much different. I've watched a lot of YouTube with YouTube premium. YouTube premium is currently $11.99. Is it? $11.99 a month. But still worth it. Even just opening the YouTube homepage and seeing the word premium about the play button. There it is. A little red P.

It's like the sound of a little jar of caviar opening. I mean... This is the good stuff. I mean, honestly, my favorite feature of it is just that there are...

not full podcast but kind of like talking it like phil defranco i'll listen to him like a podcast in the car and you can turn your screen off background it's so nice great feature i also have no idea who puts mid-rolls in their videos because i haven't seen a mid-roll in years because i have youtube premium that by itself man there's some channels that stack mid-rolls

This is not one of them, but hey, I haven't seen them in a while. We will be unless you buy YouTube for me. I recall we were at a team retreat and there's someone put a YouTube video on the TV and I was watching the video with them and then the ad popped up and everybody turned and looked at me like, is this what YouTubers are doing now? I was like, yeah, mid-rolls are a thing.

But no, yeah, that's a, I haven't seen them in a while. I do have to say, I don't know if this would be way too hard because I know nothing about coding. Would it make sense if YouTube winds up getting, you know, let's say they don't want to do 4k behind premium, but they obviously need to work on their, their bandwidth and hosting and all that. They would still have to host the 4k files that people are uploading, which is always going to be an issue. But in terms of streaming it, is there any way to essentially get

gate resolution based on the resolution that can actually be played on the screen that it's being sent to because like i can select 4k on this computer right now and it's not 4k yeah there's a bunch of features sorry a bunch of factors that go into youtube deciding resolution and then they did that stupid thing where they hid the quality selector behind like three clicks yes but one of our best clips on this podcast yeah i hate that decision but yeah the fact is youtube wants to take that

choice into their own hands and pick what's right for you, which is they look at your internet connection, the bit rate of how good of a video you're watching, and also whether or not your screen even has 4K pixels. You can pull up a 4K video, but it won't automatically do it if you don't select it all the time.

So it looks at you and decides for you what your resolution should be. I think the best option, and I don't know if it's possible, would be what I just said, where it's like, you can't select 4K because you have a 1080p screen or you have a 1440p screen. But you could get more bitrate and a higher sharpness video out of a 4K stream, even if you don't have a 4K screen.

which is like some people might want that. Only the premium payers will want that. That's a small number of people, but that's real. It sounds, yeah. Well, I think what they're doing is they're relying more so on those people than the people with actual 4K viewing displays. And they know if they can get money out of those people, that's subsidizing everyone else and that's the best way to make the money. So I would be...

fascinated if this did go through to see what kind of people are paying for premium new subscribers to premium that don't have 4k display that they're playing it on yeah that would be super interesting i also i also just know that if i'm like listening to a if i'm listening to music and it's just like the album art i'll still click the resolution all the way up because it sounds way better it's a higher bit rate interesting so i think people interested in that kind of thing which is like you and me people listening to tech stuff like we know this stuff and we care

But small fraction. Yeah. Oh, man. I really wasn't expecting you to say that. So very interesting. Shout out to Lyus. To everybody that thinks Markel is a shill and that he's completely turning his back on you, please watch main channel videos at 480p and send us screenshots just to prove to him. Don't do that. It's like a petition letter that he shouldn't agree with stuff like this and we want 4K for the rest of our lives. But to swap back all the way

Do you think 8K becomes standard 10, 15 years? Does YouTube put the kibosh on it right there because now we're just exponentially getting even higher and that's like 4K is it? YouTube was really early to supporting 8K, which is admirable. Every time we go to CES, you know how we see like a couple more 8K TVs? It seems like it's still so fringe that I don't see it being mainstream anytime soon. The thing about that is like 4K...

4k not that long ago wasn't like really mainstream so like I the curve of like you saw one 4k TV one year and then you saw 12 4k TVs the next year and then you saw a hundred 4k TVs the next year 20 30 years from now yeah is 8k everywhere

I don't think it is like over 50% of people's. I have to use my own judgment. When I go and look at those AK TVs, I can tell the difference between AK and 4K. But I think most people on most of the screens in their lives will never be able to tell the difference between 4K and 8K because that's your phone, your tablet.

Your desktop, maybe, and then your TV. All of this is just reminding us of our friend Grover who went from a 1080p screen to an 8K screen and is loving life right now. I mean, he would also be loving life at 4K, but 8K is pretty serious from 720. Yeah, that's huge. Yeah, no, we'll keep an eye on 8K as well. But I think that leaves us with one more trivia question. All right.

We should just put a mid-roll right there. That's a great idea. This trivia is now only supported with YouTube Premium. Premium users won't get that joke because they just saw us say it, but it happened. All right. So question number two. Prior to founding Red Cameras, I really hope I'm saying this last name right, Jim Jannard started what company? Easy. All right. Yeah. Let's go. Amazing. Let's take a quick break. We'll be right back.

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All right, welcome back. I had something written here and then Marquez told me he really wanted to talk about this EV Rolls Royce. So I said, sure, I will just write EV Rolls Royce and you do the rest of the talking. So I have no idea what we're about to talk about besides an EV Rolls Royce. It's just a hilarious car. Okay, I just, it's not even about the Rolls Royce as much as it's like with all these new EVs that we're getting to test.

I have a lot of ideas about, and I don't work for a car company, but about like, what is the ideal first car in your lineup to electrify? There's so many factors for that choice. We just saw a Nissan. They've had a Leaf for a while, but the Aria is the new EV like daily that they made. And it's a crossover. Okay. Then we got Cadillac. Their first thing, the Celestique is like a $300,000 random thing they made as like a concept car. And then the Lyriq.

The Lyric is another crossover. And in that video, I said, wouldn't an electric Escalade be like the thing? Wouldn't that be everything you love about an Escalade but better? Listen, like the Escalade is like one of the best known Cadillacs, but it is like impossible to argue against making a crossover right now, especially in the US. There is so popular. The argument is your first TV is probably also your most expensive.

And so you probably have to, I think you have to start with a premium product. You have to start with premium positioning, which is why Cadillac can get away with it. Nissan was like, here's a $50,000 Nissan. Is that cool? Hyundai was like, here's a $55,000 Hyundai. Is that cool? But at least you're like starting with a premium thing. And I'm like, yo, Cadillac, escalate. That's the electric thing because what do you want? You want it to be big? You want it to be powerful? You want it to be quiet? Yeah.

you want it to be smooth cadillac i'll agree with you on 100 it's got to be high tech escalate it's gotta be the escalate so that's and it's expensive already the escalate is 80 grand you know an electric one will be heavier and more expensive and it'll still be premium but it'll be the ideal escalate and then the trucks make a lot of sense so like rivian didn't have anything before but ford what should you electrify first oh yeah clearly the truck like i don't want an electric ford focus yet

Or like the Taurus or the Explorer. They'll get to those. America loves those. But the F-150 made a lot of sense. Big, powerful. That made a lot of sense. I don't know if I would argue it's like ultra premium though. They priced it really, really well for what it is. I'm just picking apart your argument. No, they did. They did. I mean, it is the more expensive F-150 relative to the gas F-150. Not even by that much, but they also do have the like...

$98,000 before dealer prices. That's true. So this Rolls-Royce comes along and it just made me laugh because it's such a beefy car already. And I just read the specs and I was like, this is hilarious. This is the perfect first electric car. Rolls-Royce, it's expensive anyway. Whoop-dee-doo. The headline from CNN Business is, Rolls-Royce's first electric car has two doors and is longer than a Cadillac Escalade.

Hell yeah, it is. It's 6,600 pounds. It has 260 miles of range and it is, uh, Oh, and it includes more than 1500 pounds of sound deadening insulation to ensure that the Rolls Royce is quiet. This is going to be the quietest Rolls Royce ever. This is what I thought of here is like these luxury cars, like Rolls Royce and Bentley are already like, it's all about cabin experience. And, uh,

Before, they were eliminating so much road noise and engine noise. Now, they don't have to eliminate engine noise. It's already going to be quieter. This is going to feel like an anechoic chamber inside. It was amazing. You're going to hear your heart. It was quiet in that car before when it had a V12. Now, they get to be just as fast with no engine and just throw batteries in there. It's going to be heavy anyway. It's amazing. I think this is... So, that's why I brought it up. By the way, it'll do 0-60 in 4.4 seconds, which is...

kind of nuts for a $6,000 refrigerator on wheels.

But it'll do it. Wait a minute, wait a minute. Okay, sorry. This is the first time I'm looking at this because I didn't want to get anything spoiled. Why is there like a solar system in the car? Oh, this is a Rolls-Royce thing. You don't know about the star system? This is outside of electric stuff? No, this is just Rolls-Royce. Oh, you mean like in their non-EV cars? Oh, yeah. Oh, no, I did not know that. Yeah, Rolls-Royces have the backwards doors and they have the stars in the ceiling. I didn't even notice the doors. Well, that's, you know.

Every car you've seen has those. No, it's got the suicide doors and it's got the stars in the roof, which is just their signature luxury look. And on the doors, too. Yeah, it's all over the car. I haven't seen it in the doors, but then again, I've never been in a Rolls-Royce. I like how they're basically like, oh, we could have an all-glass roof and you could see the stars.

Or light pollution. You can't see the stars anyways. Let's close the roof and give you your own stars. That's their thing, man. I just remember seeing, this is such a throwback, but when Hassan Whiteside, which is an NBA player, was doing lots of Snapchats, him and DJ Khaled were huge on Snapchat. Just want to throw that out there.

And he would always do snaps in his car of like him going to his pond to feed his fish. And I always saw the stars behind him. And I was like, what car is that that has like stars behind him? Oh, really? And then that's how I learned that that's kind of a status symbol is like you take a video or a photo in your car and you've got the stars behind you. It's like, oh, yeah, that's a Rolls Royce. That's pretty sick. So that's their thing. I don't know. I'm just saying I see this and I'm like, yes, please make an electric one. Please make an electric one. It'll only have 260 miles of range. Who cares?

Who cares? Yeah, your driver has to be the one who has to worry about charging it. So who cares? Yeah, you're a passenger at this point. Yeah, if you're getting an EV Rolls-Royce, if you're going over 260 miles, you're probably taking a private jet instead. You're doing it wrong. Yeah, that's the person who has like an electric jet on the way. Anyway, that's all I had to say. Rolls-Royce making a big, big splash. I just think like when we keep an eye on this first generation of electric cars, the thought is always like, what would be the ideal? Like GM started with the Hummer.

What a weird choice. That is a very weird choice. But if you think about it enough, it makes perfect sense. It's expensive. It's large. It's like a heavy thing already. They picked the one where it was like, yeah, this thing is going to have freakish acceleration. It's just a freak. This truck is a freak. And that's all we care about. So it'll be electric. It'll be even more freakish. And then, yeah, we get the Sierra truck and we'll get more stuff from GM, the Lyric, of course, Cadillac.

But, yeah, we'll keep an eye on the first gen of EVs and what they decide to electrify as they make their way through the whole lineup. I hope you're wrong and I hope more car companies realize they already have legacy car money and give us cheaper options.

It's just expensive to make an electric car. I don't disagree with you. I'm just hoping someone will be the good guy. And it's already not Subaru, so I'm already sad. It takes a lot of development and a lot of optimization to be that good guy. Like Tesla might end up getting to the finish line of a $25,000 EV first just because they have so much experience in mass production of batteries. But that's like...

That's after Cybertruck, which is in 50 years. Well, the more I've talked to electric car companies, the more I've heard them all be on the same page that the battery is the most expensive part of the car. And so you need to get good battery production and cheap batteries, and that's how you get a cheap electric car. Yeah. So if we keep asking for lots of range, then we're just asking for expensive cars. You're the problem. I am the problem.

Anyway, that's, we'll end with that. I am the problem. And now we go into the trivia, the trivia answers from our questions today. I'll grab my whiteboard. What's up? We need a producer cam.

I'm volunteering it. Don't put us on camera. Wouldn't that be great? Let us know in the comments if you guys think that would be a good idea. Because us, right now, what we have is us looking to the side. That's the camera. No one wants to see our mugs. We all do. But who's Alice? You guys are the mysterious voices that need to be shown. Yeah, exactly. Oh my gosh. I love the enthusiasm, guys. I can see the comments already.

All right, so. It was PDF, right? Yeah, you want to do that one first? Yeah. All right, so PDFs, what do they stand for? I'll read off the multiple choice one more time. We got A, portable document format. B, personal directory file. C, portable directory file. D, portable document. I'm worried I wrote one that's a mix of different ones at this point. I've got it.

Ready? I turned it around, so you better be ready.

Portable document file. That is also what I wrote, and I think that's right. Wait, that's not what you wrote. Sorry. You wrote one that's not. I wrote portable document format. And Marques is right! I remembered when you said PDF that it was something document format, and I couldn't remember, and then you said A, and I was like, that's the one. That's the one. There we go, there we go. Now we know Marques is the bigger PDF fan. Hell yeah, love me a PDF. All right, question number two.

prior to founding red cameras jim jannard started what company that was fast andrew oh yeah i know this one okay i think we both have it ready

You guys are both right. He started Oakley Sunglasses. Do you know why it's called Oakley? Because it's... Oh, I do know this. Yeah? Why it's called it? Because his dog is named Oakley. Yes. And do you know why he started making optics? Because he dropped out of college to ride his motorcycle around the country, started selling motorcycle parts under a business he named after his dog, and expanded that into Biker Sunglasses. How the hell do you know this? I am the lord of trivia. Yeah.

The trivia voice knows all. It was medical school too because both of his parents were doctors. Do you know what school it was? No. It was USC. Well, I don't care. Do you know what classes he went to? Look at me. I also dropped out of USC. Incredible. I did drop out of USC. See? It all ties together. It makes sense why you know these things. You're one dog and a pair of sunglasses away from being a billionaire. You could have started Red Camera. That close. You could have made the red hydrogen. You could have started the hydrogen.

- Amazing, well I guess now I have one more point than you. - You're winning now, but I'm ahead of David. That's what David gets for going to beautiful Yosemite this week. - Bet you wish you stayed here, David. - Yeah, he probably would've gotten both of those, right? - He's definitely in the comments screaming about how he knew also all of these things, and that's totally fine, but your whiteboard's blank, my friend.

Either way. Proof. That's been it for this week on Waveform. Thanks for listening. Thanks for watching. Let us know in the comments where we should put the producer cam. Catch you guys. It should probably be facing them. No, but, you know, where in the room, like, pointed towards them. But should it be, like, right in front of them? Should it be, like, further away? Should it be, like, over your shoulder? Should it be over their shoulder? No. Over your shoulder to see what you see? It should just be strapped to my head.

strapped to his head. - 'Cause I'm looking at them all the time. - Strapped to his head. - No, I guess we've shown what it looks like. I was gonna say, I wonder if people know the layout of the room, but we've shown it. - Permanent drone hovering over the table. - We have to stop every 20 minutes to recharge the battery? - For an hour, yes. - Okay, all right. Waveform is produced by Ellis Roven and Adam Molina. We are partnered with Vox Media Podcast Network, and our intro after music is created by Vayne Sill. I kinda messed that one up, but we'll just keep it. Send it. Do I get a point for trivia? - Nope.

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