By a Long Shot (Rebroadcast) - 28 April 2025
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You're listening to A Way With Words, the show about language and how we use it. I'm Grant Barrett. And I'm Martha Barnett. The new movie Dream Horse tells a true story that takes place in a tiny Welsh village. On a whim, the local bartender, played by Toni Collette, dreams of breeding a championship racehorse. So she buys a mare and she persuades her neighbors to chip in with a little money each week to support her efforts.

Now, a horse like that is a long shot to win anything, but you can imagine why there's a movie about this true story. Because they lose, right? Well, Grant, you'll just have to see it. It's pretty predictable. But if you do see this movie, you may wonder about a word that turns up when the local townsfolk meet for the first time to decide whether to go for this seemingly impossible goal.

Eventually, they all agree that they're not doing this for any prize money. They're doing it for the Hoyle. And if you go to look up the word Hoyle in the dictionary, you may have trouble finding it. But here's the key. Here's what you have to remember. This story takes place in Wales, and the word they're using is spelled A.

H-W-Y-L, Hoyle. Nice. W as a vowel. W as a vowel, as you see in Welsh. The term is hard to define, but I looked it up in the Oxford English Dictionary, and the definition there was, an emotional quality which inspires and sustains impassioned eloquence. Also, the fervor of emotion characteristic of gatherings of Welsh people.

Grant, I can't wait to go to Wales. I want to experience Hoyle. Oh, that's lovely. I want to watch that movie. I saw a trailer for it. I'm like, yeah, it looks predictable, but I like a bunch of the actors in it. The scenery looked great. I like horses. I love Toni Collette. Sure. Right? Damien Lewis. Damien Lewis is easy on the eyes. Well, one more. One more.

bit of good news about this word is that I checked, you can use it in Scrabble. H-W-Y-L. Hoyle in Welsh. And a great word when people say, well, what about W? Is it a vowel? And you're like, yes, it is. I've got the Hoyle to prove it.

We're not the only ones that find words everywhere we go, everywhere we look, everywhere we read, everywhere we listen. What have you found? Share it with us on Twitter at W-A-Y-W-O-R-D, words at waywardradio.org, or, of course, toll-free in the U.S. and Canada, 877-929-9673.

Hello, you have a way with words. Hello, how are you? My name is Peter. I'm calling from lovely Cranford, New Jersey. Welcome to the show, Peter. What's up? I have a question about idiomatic expressions, specifically idiomatic expressions in the United States and England. You know, George Bernard Shaw said that the United States and Great Britain are two countries separated by a common language, and I got to live there.

for a little less than a year back in the 1980s. And so some things are, you know, some words are like everyone knows that chips mean French fries and lift is elevator, but then you get to things like gobsmacked and who knows what that means, or Bob's your uncle. But particularly, here's my question. We say in this country, not by a long shot. And there, they say, not by a long chalk.

Now, I assume they mean the same thing, but I haven't a clue why there's a difference in why shot and chalk. Where did you encounter not by a long chalk? Well, you would say to somebody, you know, did you win the race? And they would say not by a long chalk. Okay. Yeah, that's a good example.

A long chalk refers to a way of keeping score originally. In British pubs dating back centuries, people would make marks on the wall or wherever with chalk to keep score for games like darts or to keep track of bar tabs. And so a long chalk is a...

long series of tick marks showing your score. So not by a long tuck means you have a long way to go to catch up or there's a big distance between what you want and what you have.

But typically these days you'll only find the chalk marks used for darts and not on the walls, probably on a slate or something like that. As early as 1833 in the U.S. and the U.K., you can find not-by-a-long chalk used in both the U.S. and the U.K., but it dropped out of use in the U.S. very quickly. Probably it was British influence in the first place in the U.S.,

Longshot is pretty straightforward. It's talking about the difficulty of making a shot with any kind of weapon, be it a

Fired with gunpowder or bow and arrow or what have you. A couple hundred years on that, both in the U.S. and the U.K. Yeah, so they're both very straightforward. Yeah, both very straightforward. Once you know what the chalk is about, then it's straightforward. It might not be clear to people that we're saying C-H-A-L-K. We're talking about the white stuff that you use to draw with or color with, not C-H-O-C-K.

Right. Exactly. Cliffs of Dover. Peter, thank you so much for your call. Really appreciate it, man. Call us again sometime. Well, let me just say I'm gobsmacked by the answer. Yeah, that means you're hit in the face. Yeah. There you go. You're gobsmacked. Bob's your uncle. Talk to you later. Bye. Thanks, Peter. Grant, do you know what the most common street name in America is? Or can you guess? Well, I would say Main Street, but I think that, no. I think it's going to be...

You're on the right track. Let me just tell you, you're on the right track. Am I? First Street. No, but you're getting warmer. Second Street. Second Street is the most common street name in America. Because First Street is usually Main Street. Exactly. So then Second Street is the one. Yeah, okay. Yes. Never thought about that, but there you go. 877-929-9673.

Hello, you have a way with words. Hi, this is Mary from San Diego. I'm here with my student, Charlie. Oh, hi, Mary and Charlie. Welcome to the show. So what your student, Charlie, does this mean that you're a teacher? I am Charlie's third grade teacher at Albert Einstein Academies in South Park. Well, what can we do for you and Charlie today? Well, how about I put Charlie on the line? She has a question for you that I did not know the answer to. Here she is. Okay, great.

I had a question in class, which was, like, why is the first episode of a season called Pilot? Why is the first episode of a television season called a pilot? Yes. What a great question. Charlie, were you watching a TV show and they said it was a pilot episode? Yeah, I've watched many episodes.

Right. And that's the first episode of the whole season, correct? Yes. What do you think of when you think of the word pilot, Charlie? Yeah.

Yeah, somebody who steers or guides an airplane. Well, we can give you an answer for that. The word pilot has been around for centuries. It's been around for a really, really long time. In fact, back in the 15th century, pilot was first used for somebody who guides a ship.

Somebody would pilot a ship through the ocean. And it was only later in the 20th century, once we had airplanes, that we started using the word pilot for somebody who guides an airplane. And Charlie, this idea of guiding or steering is really important because somebody who pilots something...

guides or steers it. And in the late 1800s, you could talk about drilling a pilot hole. And that was like, like if you're hanging a picture or something on the wall, you might drill a little hole to make it easier to make a hole with a larger drill. That was called a pilot hole. And again, that was guiding where that screw was going to go. And

And then later, when radio and television came along, they applied the word pilot to the first episode. So it's the episode that kind of guides or leads the way for the rest of the season. And it also guides the companies that are producing the show or the sponsors to decide if that show is going in the right direction or if they should just quit it. I thought that pilot means like it tells you what the show is about. Mm-hmm.

Well, it kind of does, doesn't it? It introduces the show to you. It kind of guides you. Yeah, it guides you as the viewer. It steers you, doesn't it? Yeah. Yeah. So the pilot is kind of the describing word here. It's describing the episode as being something that steers or guides. That was my question about, like, why does it have that? And why is it titled that?

Right. Right. Because usually when you think of the word pilot, you're absolutely right, Charlie. You think of that person flying the airplane, right? Yeah. So, Charlie, thank you so much for asking that question. You know, it's a question that a lot of adults have and you asked it on their behalf. So thank you for doing that. Appreciate it.

Thank you. Thank you. Take care now. Be well. Will you call us again sometime? Probably. This is really fun. And let us say goodbye to the whole class. Can you put us on speaker? Bye-bye. They've been quietly listening. Thank you. Bye. Take care now. Bye.

What's that everyday question that you always wonder about, but you're not in a position to do anything about it because you're busy? Your hands are messy from cooking or you're driving or you're at work in a meeting. Well, next time that happens, write that question down and give us a call, 877-929-9673, or send it to us in email, words at waywardradio.org. ♪♪♪

Grant, here's a neologism that you may be tracking, Nana Moon. Oh, this is when nanas and grandmas get drunk and they moon people from their tour bus on the way to the casino. You know, that might not bode well for this particular term. I think that this is a term that is being promoted by the wedding industry. Oh, I see.

It's a very short honeymoon then. Yes, yes. This is, you know, people who are making adjustments this year and maybe they just have a very, very short honeymoon that is a trip to, you know, a nearby state or national park or going on a wine tour or something like that, not far from where they live. Nanomoon, you know, I'm not sure if it has legs, especially after your definition there, but I

I like the idea. Let's go on a nanomoon. Right. But it's not a thousandth of a honeymoon, though, right? We're going to have a 10-second honeymoon. We leave the courthouse. It's the walk from the courthouse to the car. That's our honeymoon. That's kind of a lovely thought. You know, a nanomoon every day. I think that could be a, you know, hashtag life goal. Parcel your honeymoon out over the rest of your life. Sure.

I like it. Nanamoon. 877-929-9673. ♪♪♪

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You're listening to A Way With Words, the show about language and how we use it. I'm Grant Barrett. And I'm Martha Barnett. And joining us now on the line from New York City is our quiz guy, John Chinesky. Hey, John. Hey, Martha. Hi, Grant. You know, I had a science teacher, Mr. Hannigan. He once told me that a pun is just two-thirds of a joke and two-thirds of a pun is P-U.

But of course, nothing stinks like a good cheese pun. Now I'm going to give you some hints to some puns about cheese and you work out what it is. For example, I don't trust the new guy behind the cheese counter at the store. Very suspicious of him. I think he's up to no gouda. Okay, gotcha. That's the kind of response I'd expect to hear if you pulled out a pun like that. So here's some cheese-based puns you're going to help me finish. Ready? Here we go. Okay. All right.

Sadly, a tornado swept through my local cheese shop. All that was left was... Debris. Debris, yes. Now, I never want to be out of cheese, which is why I keep a wheel of cheese behind a glass door in my kitchen. Now, I only use it in... Queso emergency? Queso emergency, yes.

I like fries, I like gravy, and I like cheese curds, but I'm only 50-50 on poutine, and my feelings are neither black nor white. It's more of a... Gruyere area. Oh, gosh. Gruyere area, yes. Gruyere area. Now, if I'm at a friend's house and I see some cheese in the fridge, I'll just grab it and wolf it down. You know what they say. It's better to ask forgiveness than...

Oh, ask for Parmesan. Parmesan, yes. Teamwork. You know, guys, cheese is in the Bible, you know. In Genesis, they mention the very first couple to enjoy cheese. Yeah, Adam and Eve. E-D-A-M. Edom and Eve? Edom and Eve, right. I maintain that you can lose weight just by eating cheese. Try it. I bet that you will...

Cheddar a lot of weight? There you go. You'll cheddar a few pounds, I'm sure. I guess our time apart has endeared me to you guys. You know what they say, absence makes the heart grow fondue. Yes, it sure does. All right, this is just about all the cheese puns I can take. I've had it up to here. In fact, I'm fed up. Oh my gosh. Yes, I'm fed up with this.

Those are all the cheese buns I have today. I hope you thought they were great. Well, any way you slice it, Martha, that was a lot of fun. Yeah, we had a total mind melt. Well, if it's puns that you want and puns that you have, share your favorites with us, words at waywardradio.org, or tell the world about your puns on Twitter at W-A-Y-W-O-R-D.

Hello, you have a way with words. Hi, my name is Valerie and I'm calling from Los Angeles. Hey, Valerie. Hi, Valerie. What's up? Hi. Well, I came up with a phrase that I thought would be perfect for you guys. I love learning more about language and this is a phrase I've been using a lot recently given...

everything that's been going on and my feelings about it, I was trying to look up the phrase, don't buy the hype or don't buy into the hype. And I thought, you know, what an interesting phrase and hype itself is an interesting word to me. And so I started to look it up just

And then I thought about you guys and I was like, oh, this would be perfect for them if they haven't already covered it. I'd love to make them do the research for me. Looking up words for fun. You're definitely one of us, Valerie. Yes, I do.

I mean, it's a daily thing for me. I love language. So, yeah. What immediately comes to mind is the Public Enemy song. I grew up with 80s hip hop. So Don't Believe the Hype. Do you know that one? Absolutely. Yes. Yes. Don't believe the hype. It's a sequel. It's an equal. Can I get this through to you? My 90s booming with the trunk of funk. All the jealous punks can't stop the dunk.

Yes. Yes. And I was thinking, like, I was wondering if it came, you know, if that was the actual origin of the song, because it is a very popular... From Public Enemy all the way back is a long road. Actually, let's work backward from there. So what we're talking about is hype. Hype is the key word here. I think really in your phrase, don't buy the hype. Yeah.

We're going to talk about why you wouldn't want to buy the hype or why you wouldn't want to believe the hype. Hype we're talking about is what? How would you define that? Hype, to me, as I understand it, is anything that's being really talked about and encouraged to be focused on or bought into. Something you buy into. Yeah, excessive praise or talk about someone or something. Exactly. Exactly.

But there's a specific sense here, and I think this is what Chuck D and Public Enemy were talking about, and that's unwarranted or inaccurate talk. This is where it's especially excessively positive or promotional language in a marketing or advertising context about something that doesn't deserve it, right? Yeah.

Yes. And this is the hype that we need to follow backward. As far back as the 1950s, hype was advertising lingo for wild marketing or a promotional effort. Maybe one that had a big stunt or a gimmick or had misleading, ostentatious or inflated out of proportion chatter or talk or banners or signage or whatever. It was just outrageous. Mm-hmm.

And this is exactly where our verb and noun hype come from today. But that hype, that advertising hype came from street language where hype meant exaggeration or lies as far back as the 1930s. And at the same time, and even a little earlier,

It referred to confidence games and swindles, con games that involved persuading a mark of something that wasn't true. A mark is the person that you're trying to trick. Oh, wow. Wow. It's very insidious. Yes. So a typical con game of this kind of hype was the one where the con would try to persuade the clerk that they'd given them the wrong change, sometimes by convincing they had given them a bigger bill. Right.

So this is a very typical kind of hype con that people would do as far back as the 1930s. I mean, there were many, many, many more. And now it's older than that, though. This is where hype gets murky. If you look in a lot of reference books, they'll say or suggest that hype comes from hyperbole.

But that doesn't really sound right to me. Do you hear like the... There's kind of a tone mismatch, right? Yeah, a bit. Hyperbole is this fancy word. Wouldn't you say, Martha? It's kind of academic. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it's academic. Or literary even. And hype is...

non-academic or it's of a lower register or it's even commercial speech. Would you consider it like slang? Hype? The word hype? Yeah. Some uses of hype are slang. And hyperbole isn't at all, right? Hyperbole is a fancy word and hype is not a fancy word. Hype is comfortable slippers and hyperbole is black patent leather, right?

And some other sources suggest hype comes from hypodermic, the idea that legal and illegal stimulants are delivered by hypodermic needles and they kind of jack you up and make you under the influence of some drug or some chemical. And maybe that's similar to the way that you become kind of under the influence of someone's scam.

But the problem with both hyperbole and hypodermic is that we don't have the evidence. Now I'm a dictionary editor and what I want is evidence. I need to see printed evidence with a date on it. And so I don't really believe those. But what I do find is evidence that hypnotize might be the word. And another word, which is hypnotize.

Hipped. There's a word which you might don't really hear. Yeah, I don't know this one. How do you spell it? I'm assuming it's with an H-Y as well? Well, H-Y-P-P-E-D or H-I-P-P-E-D. If you're hipped, you are hipped on a girl or a guy. You might be completely besotted with them. They're all you can think about or they control your every movement or every thought.

I see a ton of uses where hypnotized is shortened and used in exactly the same way that we use hype today. Now, there's a problem with pronunciation, and I can't solve that. But here, take this example. It appeared in the Boston Globe in 1906 in an article about vaudeville and theater language, and they use it exactly the same way. It says...

I was out of sight down in Washington last week. They had me winking for a while, but my act was surefire with that bunch. And the first thing I knew, I was knocking them off their seats and soon had them hyped. And translated, that's my score success in Washington last week. They had me guessing for a while, but my act was a good one. And I knew I was soon making an impression. And that last line is the translation of hyped. And soon had them hyped was, I soon had them making an impression.

And so anyway, to short, I think hype, and I'm not 100% certain, is a combination of hipped, meaning you're under the influence of someone or something, and perhaps has some influence of hypodermic. But I really think it comes from hipped and hypnotized, both which mean...

you're under the influence of someone or something. Well, that's a fabulous answer and very validating, honestly. And you very much answered my question. This has been absolutely fascinating to me and I really appreciate it. Thank you so much. All right. Don't believe the hype.

You got to call again sometime. Oh, I never do. I'll try to come up with more for you. Absolutely. Thank you so much. Be well. Take care. Bye-bye. Thanks. Have a good one. Bye.

Recently, we were talking about the term adenaten, A-D-Y-N-A-T-O-N, adenaten, which is the rhetorical device of making a point by alluding to some impossible event, something that could never occur. Sure. The classic one being when pigs fly, right? Yes. Yes. And it's a way of really making a point, but being fun and colorful about it, too. And

It actually gave me a great excuse to go back and listen to the fabulous Stevie Wonder album from 1976, Songs in the Key of Life, because his song As has a number of words

wonderful examples of Adonatan. You know, he talks about, I'll be loving you always until the dolphin flies and parrots live at sea, until we dream of life and life becomes a dream, until the day is night and night becomes the day, until the trees and seas just

Up and Fly Away, Until the Day that Eight Times Eight Times Eight is Four. I just, you know, somebody mentioned that that was an example of Adenaten. And if nothing else, it was a great excuse to go back and listen to that album. That is a classic album. It's great to unwind to and better than comfort food, I think. Right, because of all the Adenatens in there. Yeah.

Well, you can find weird language things and fun language things everywhere you look. What's the album book? What's the thing you heard or thing you read? 877-929-9673 or Twitter at W-A-Y-W-O-R-D. Hello, you have a way with words. Hi, this is Brian and I'm calling from Washington, D.C.,

Hey, Brian. Welcome. Well, thanks so much for having me. I have a question about a word that I've encountered in gaming, like computer and video gaming, and it's proc, spelled P-R-O-C. So this term proc, I've encountered it, it's when there's a random event or effect that occurs with something like...

My sword has a 50% chance of poisoning you. And if it poisons you, then we say that it procced. And so it's such an interesting term to me because it doesn't seem like it's something a lot of gaming terms seem to come from like an inside joke or something. And it doesn't seem like that. And, you know, PROC made me think of like procure or process. But I was just curious if

Do you have any sense of the origin or etymology of this term? That's such an interesting one. And I bet you Googled it and then came across all the arguments, right? Yes, I did. I did. There didn't seem to be a ton of consensus.

Oh, yeah, because they're bickering about it. They've been bickering about it, it looks like, for like 15 years at least about whether it comes from process or procedure or something else. And I think I can help you narrow this down. I did some digging of my own.

And looking at the actual digital data, because we have some historical record on gaming, it becomes clear that the term comes from the multi-user dungeon days, the mud days, that era of text-based games that you could play on LANs or dial-up or the internet from the 70s onward. So in that era, there...

There are many examples of the noun proc, that's P-R-O-C, and it's given as a shortening of procedure.

which is itself a shortening of special procedure, and it's written in computer code when you're a programmer or a gaming programmer as specproc, S-P-E-C underscore P-R-O-C. And that is the origin of it as far as can be told. And I'm basing this on messages in news groups. This is the old, like before Facebook,

before internet forums, before the web even, this is how people communicated, using news groups. This is how groups happened. People who worked on the games left messages with each other, sent messages to each other about this stuff. Now, one of the MUDs, one of the multi-user dungeon online games,

that had special procedures, those spec procs, and the noun proc as part of its jargon was Diku, that's D-I-K-U, which first appeared in 1990. And now there was another game. Did you ever play EverQuest? I don't know how old you are. I'm in my mid-30s, so yeah, I never played EverQuest, but I'm very familiar. Yeah, so EverQuest is another one of these, you know, it's like...

swords and wizards and stuff. And it was based... So it wasn't based on Deku. It was influenced by Deku. You know, there's potions and trolls and caves and exploration, that sort of thing. You remember these games where you're always like...

picking up things and seeing what kind of powers they have and encountering villains that you have to conquer with whatever you're carrying, right? Yeah, of course. Yeah. And you get a new weapon and a new sword and it does things. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. You're swapping gear all the time, right? You can only carry a certain amount. What do I put down? What do I pick up? And that procking becomes really important because some things proc at different rates. And so you've heard that I just verbed that. I

I just verbed that noun proc. And that's what's really important here. What we're really looking at here is when did that noun become the verb? Because for me, that's really the important part. That's really when...

I think that it went from being a narrowly used term that's kind of more about programming and more about software development and then became more about the games and the gamers and the players. Okay. Do you use this at all in your offline life with other friends when you're talking about something out in the world? Or is it exclusively, it hasn't migrated out of your screen? Oh.

It hasn't migrated out of my screen, but I'm also pretty self-conscious about that sort of thing. So I wouldn't want to give away too much nerdery. Yeah, you're giving away a lot of nerdery by appearing on this show, you know. But this is cool nerdery. This is erudite nerdery. Yeah, your phone call procked an experience with us on the air. There you go. Exactly. Yeah.

Thanks for the call, Brian. We really appreciate it. Thanks for nerding out. Yeah, thank you both so much. Have a great day. All right, rock on. Bye. Bye-bye. What is the jargon of your pastime? Are you a knitter? Are you a coin collector? Maybe you like to collect gems when you go on hikes. Whatever it is, let us know, 877-929-9673. Or tell us the jargon of your pastime in email, words at waywardradio.org.

More about what we say and why we say it. Stick around for more. ♪♪♪ Click fast and save big. Shop Blinds.com's Spring Cyber Monday Sale and elevate your space with new custom window treatments today. DIY or let our pros handle everything from measure to install. Blinds.com makes upgrading your home easy with free virtual consultations,

You're listening to A Way With Words, the show about language and how we use it. I'm Grant Barrett. And I'm Martha Barnett. Take a moment and imagine trying to tell someone how to get to your home without using the name of your street.

or for that matter, the names of any streets within a 10-mile radius. I've been thinking a lot about that challenge ever since reading a fantastic book by Deirdre Mask. It's called The Address Book, What Street Addresses Reveal About Identity, Race, Wealth, and Power.

Most households in the world don't have street addresses. In fact, that's the way it was for much of human history. As late as the 19th century, the Royal Postal Service in Britain managed to deliver the occasional letter with a less-than-precise address on the envelope. Like, you might send a letter to so-and-so who lives in the cottage by the forest. Or my favorite was a letter that was addressed to someone in Scotland that read,

Just in case you weren't sure which gene it was.

But Grant, it makes you realize how much we take for granted the words we use to tell people where we are and also the immense power and effect of those names. You know, like naming streets after Confederate generals, for example. And it's a fascinating look at history and society and language through this particular lens of addresses. I've never read a book like this before. Yeah, I've read the first few chapters of the book at your recommendation, and I agree with you. This is a fantastic book.

And I am struck by how many services that we receive are attached to having a physical address. I'm reminded of the people trying to get their stimulus checks in the United States, but being unable to because they were homeless. They had no fixed abode, as they put it in Europe.

They just could not get the very money they needed to rescue themselves from their miserable situation. Right. In fact, she's got a whole chapter about homelessness and what the lack of an address means for people. I mean, you can't apply for most jobs without being able to put your address on the application. And she raises a fascinating question in this book, Little Candidates.

kids can send a letter to Santa, care of the North Pole, and somebody from the Postal Service will end up answering that letter eventually. And she says, if Santa can have a fake address, why can't the homeless? You know, why can't we assign addresses?

in some shape or fashion to help people get over that one little hump. And that's just one of many, many fascinating chapters in this book. She talks in there about Nelson Mandela's reluctance to change apartheid era street names in South Africa after he became president. And she talks about modern Germany's struggle to come to terms with street names honoring Jews that were changed under the Nazi era. And

Just the whole question that one of the interviewees in the book raises about how do we remember and say the past happened without looking as if we are celebrating that past? Right. Because there's layers of this history, even if they're these...

names are problematic because of the beliefs or characteristics of the people they were named for, they do connect us to what happened and what we sprang from and who we were as a people, a society, a community. Right. How do you make those decisions? And then there's a whole chapter about the vanity addresses in New York City, like one park

Avenue. I didn't realize that there were addresses in New York City that are available for a price, even though they might not be entirely accurate in terms of location because they have a certain amount of prestige to them. It's just a fascinating book, as I said, that lets you look at the world through a lens that I've never looked at it through before.

And this book, again, by Deirdre Mask is called? The Address Book, What Street Addresses Reveal About Identity, Race, Wealth, and Power. And I should mention, too, that Grant, you've already seen in her book, she's a very sure-footed writer. Absolutely. She's very inquisitive, and I share her delight in learning all kinds of things about this topic.

Absolutely. It's a great read. We both recommend the book. We'll link to it on our website. If you're reading something fantastic that you think we should read and share with everyone else, send us a note, words at waywardradio.org, or tell us on Twitter at W-A-Y-W-O-R-D. Hello, you have A Way With Words. Hi, this is Anna from Columbia, Mississippi. Columbia, Mississippi. Welcome to the show. Hey, Anna. Hi.

What's going on? Well, my dad has always said a phrase when we were growing up. Well, it actually originated from my grandmother. And it's the phrase, Lior's the catch meddlers. And it's

It's very odd. And we always assumed it was maybe her Southern way of saying, for example, if my dad was doing something or talking about something and we came up and we're like, what are you doing? And he would say, basically meaning none of your business. None of your business.

Lior's to catch meddlers. Am I hearing you right? Yes, that's correct. Lior like Eeyore, huh?

Kind of, yeah. And you said you heard it a lot. You must have been very inquisitive as a child. That's a nice way to put it, yeah. I always liked to know other people's business. Ah, like a meddler, huh? Like somebody who meddles in somebody else's business. Right, exactly. Now, we've got a lot to tell you about this. First, it's not just your family that says it. Okay. It's not just people from Mississippi. Okay.

It's not just people in the American South, although they are more likely to say it than people in the rest of the United States. As a matter of fact, this is something you might hear throughout the English-speaking world, and it's got about 350 years of history. Wow. Yeah. And I stopped counting, but I think there are 70 or 80 versions of this. Really? Yeah.

Yes. Because it's been passed along for so long that it's become modified and changed and everyone comes up with their own versions because they misremember it or mishear it or missay it. Yeah, I'm glad to add Lior to the list. I didn't know Lior's. I didn't know that one. But it's a very long list. What did it originate from or what are some of the other things that has been said in relation to it?

Well, just to establish a starting point, the earliest use that we have in print is from a dictionary of slang in the late 1600s, layovers for meddlers, L-A-R-E-O-V-E-R-S. I don't believe that that's the original word for it. I do think it was either layers, L-A-Y-E-R-S, or layovers, L-A-Y-O-V-E-R-S, and it referred to a punishment, prostitution.

Probably a thrashing or a thumping. So basically it's saying it's the kind of beating or thumping that you might get for meddling or nosing in business that's not yours. Oh, okay. Well, I'm glad that never was the result. But that first word has just undergone so many transformations. Just a few of the things that people have suggested. Sometimes you'll hear layovers to

catch meddlers or sometimes just hear layovers for meddlers, but coppers, layovers, laros, layropes, popovers, rows, rearovers, rarovers, a faro, a so-and-so, a maro, and sometimes people extend it out the other direction, say larovers for meddlers and crutches for lame ducks. Oh, wow. Yeah. That's a mouthful.

It's one of those sort of non-answers that parents especially will give to kids when they just, you know, they just want them to stop asking questions. I mean, there's this whole world out there of phrases like this, like, you know, Daddy, what are you doing? Well, I'm working on a swinkle swankle for a goose's nightcap.

Or I'm making a silver new nothing to put on your shoe. My father, he also used to say he was writing a book. And we would feel like, well, what book is it? And he'd say, well, we'll make it a mystery and leave that chapter out of it.

That's wonderful. He was full. In fact, his name is Lyman, and we would always refer to him as Lymanism because he's full of catchy little phrases and such. That's marvelous. I love it.

Making a Whipple for a Deuces Poke or a Hootenanny for a Skywampus or a Femme Fatale to tie up the moon. I mean, there's so many of these. Anna, I hope we've helped get to the bottom of this mystery for you. You have. Thank you. I can't wait to share it with my dad. My pleasure. Take care now. Hi to Lyman. Thank you. Bye-bye. Thank you. I will. Bye. All righty. Bye-bye.

Well, share your family's phrases with us, 877-929-9673, or send them to us in email. That address is words at waywardradio.org. Hello, you have a way with words. Yeah, hello. My name is Gerald. I am in Gatsby Point, Rhode Island. Welcome to the show. What's up? I have a question about the word dashboard. I think I can parse out where the board part comes from, but the dash part, I'm baffled by. Okay.

So you're thinking about the dashboard on a car or vehicle. Yeah. Yeah, and you're exactly right that dash is the key part of that word. In the 1300s, dash meant to strike suddenly and violently. But over time, it also came to have the meaning of to sprinkle or to

to splatter. So if, say, you ran through a driving rain to get to my house, Gerald, and you showed up at my door, I might say, you know, come on in. Your clothes are dashed with mud.

And that's the kind of dash that we're talking about here because back in the days of horse-drawn carriages, the term dashboard was applied to this panel of wood or leather that went in front of the driver. It was set on the carriage in front of the driver and passengers to keep them from being dashed by water or mud or snow.

The term applied to that panel was then applied later to the panel that protected the occupants of horseless carriages from the heat of the oil in the engine. And then over time, we kept adding things to it, you know, dials and other options. So it's really this vestige of the old days when you had to protect yourself against mud and water and snow. Nice. Well, that's great.

Well, that's a great explanation. I kind of expected something like that, but... Oh, did you? Didn't know. What brought it to mind? Why were you thinking about dashboards? Well, it wasn't actually in reference to a vehicle at the time. I was using a dashboard to manage something on a social media account. Ah. Yeah. That's where I wanted to go with this. Exactly. It is very...

Very interesting that it's now made this third jump into the computing world where it's a screen or interface that shows us statistics or charts or analyses of our underlying data in a human-readable format, right? Yes. And who knows? Maybe there'll be a fourth act. Who can say when we get these neural implants? We'll have like mental dashboards maybe. Well, Gerald, thanks for the call. Really appreciate it. Take care now. Yeah, thank you. Thanks, Gerald. Bye-bye.

Is there a word or phrase that's puzzled you? Call us about it, 877-929-9673, or send it to us an email. That address is words at waywardradio.org. And if you just can't wait, hit us up on Twitter. We're at WayWord. Hi there, you have a way with words. Hi, this is Laura calling from Dallas.

Hey, Laura, welcome to the show. What can we do for you? Well, thank you so much. I'm really excited. I have a question about a phrase that I've been hearing a lot. My parents say it, and my mom said, my grandma said it as well, and it is, another country heard from. And what context would you hear this in? Well, I have a 10-month-old daughter, and so she'll be, you know, kind of playing quietly, and all of a sudden she'll start babbling or talking, and my mom will say, oh, another country heard from. Ha ha ha.

Same with my little baby cousin. He'll be fast asleep and all of a sudden he's awake and talking and it's, okay, another country heard from. So it's when somebody just kind of, somebody blurt something out, they were unexpectedly speaking and you hadn't expected them to put in any input at all. Exactly. Yes.

It almost is like their way of acknowledging the baby. It's usually towards the babies, but like that they have joined the conversation and it's kind of like a, it seems like a welcome. Yeah. Okay. Have you ever heard them say it in a dismissing way to an adult? Like somebody gives an unwanted opinion or gives an opinion where they weren't asked?

For an opinion? Not really dismissing, but more of my younger sister, if we're all here together and maybe she sleeps later than everyone else. And then she will slowly come down the stairs after everyone is already, you know, talking and having breakfast. Then she might get, oh, another country heard from. Like, it's coming down now. You finally decided to join us. Sometimes it can be that as well. That's a good use. I like that one. She's all, where's the coffee? Yeah.

You'll sometimes also hear it if somebody breaks wind or burps. Sometimes you'll hear somebody say that in response to that. Okay. Another country heard from. But you'll also hear another county heard from without the R, C-O-U-N-T-Y. And that actually was the original form going back to 1868. So it's got a long history. Now,

I'm going to throw a bunch of stuff here at you, so bear with me, okay? Okay. The expression had a burst of popularity in the 1876 presidential election. Now, this was when Samuel J. Tilden was against Rutherford B. Hayes, and they had this neck-and-neck campaign, and...

Even the election tally, after all the votes were cast, was so close that the ballot recount, when it was reordered, was like a county-by-county thing. And some of the far-flung counties were very slow to report. So...

When the newspapers reported on the ballots slowly coming in, they would headline these little blurbs another county heard from with the results from that county. So everyone would keep up. So this was in the newspapers at the time. However, even though a lot of books will tell you that this expression comes from that election, it does not come from that election. Although the election may have firmly kind of like permanently put it into the lexiconic.

because that expression existed before that election. It appeared before that election in ads and editorials, letters, headlines, and so forth. And it always is like you've used it. It's always like, okay, here's an opinion. Here's somebody spoke up that we weren't expecting to hear from. Or sometimes it's kind of

kind of dismissively used. That's why I asked about that. Like, here's something that we don't care about with the thing that they insisted on saying. In newspapers, it's like letters to the editors. Like, here's somebody with an off-the-wall opinion that we decided to print just so we could make fun of them. You know, that sort of thing. And they'll title it Another Country Heard From. I'm sorry, Another County Heard From.

But somewhere around 1900 or so, it starts to switch to another country heard from. I don't know why, but my theory is, and Martha, I don't know what you think about this, but my theory is this is when the United States started to be a little more worldly and we started to get more international news in our newspapers. And another county heard from started to disappear from popular speech and you just don't find it that much anymore anymore.

And you also will see variants like another city heard from or another ward heard from, W-A-R-D. A ward is like a voting district in a city. Anyway, that's what we know. So 1868. Every time this comes up, Martha and I both like furiously look at all the old databases to see if there's anything new and we can predate it to the... There never is. There never is. We can never find it earlier than 1868. I looked...

look desperately, but I can never find any earlier than that. Interesting. Thank you so much. That's great. Yeah. We were happy to hear from your country. So thank you for calling. Oh, thank you so much. Thank you. Take care now. Bye-bye. Thank you. Bye-bye.

And we would be happy to hear from your county or country too. 877-929-9673. That number is toll free in the U.S. and Canada. And if you're anywhere else in the world, you can email us words at waywardradio.org. We will try to get people on from anywhere in the world, believe it or not. And you can talk to us on Twitter at W-A-Y-W-O-R-D.

Thanks to senior producer Stephanie Levine, editor Tim Felton, and production assistant Rachel Elizabeth Weisler. You can send us messages, subscribe to the podcast and newsletter, and catch up on hundreds of past episodes at waywardradio.org.

Our toll-free line is always open in the U.S. and Canada, 877-929-9673. Or email us, words at waywardradio.org. A Way With Words is an independent production of WayWord, Inc., a nonprofit supported by listeners and organizations who are changing the way the world talks about language.

Many thanks to Wayward board member and our friend Bruce Rogo for his help and expertise. Thanks for listening. I'm Grant Barrett. And I'm Martha Barnett. Until next time, goodbye. Bye-bye.