cover of episode Mao vs Xi: politicking China’s environment — with Judith Shapiro

Mao vs Xi: politicking China’s environment — with Judith Shapiro

2025/5/29
logo of podcast Peking Hotel with Liu He

Peking Hotel with Liu He

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Judith Shapiro: 我最初的研究方向并非环境,而是通过个人经历和学术追求,逐渐转向中国环境政治的研究。在研究过程中,我发现早期中国环境问题的研究相对匮乏,因此我的工作具有开创性。我对毛泽东时代环境问题的研究并非为了批判,而是为了理解人与自然对立的社会构建。改革开放后,环境恶化加剧,但毛时代将自然视为敌人的观念影响深远。在方法论上,我更倾向于通过口述历史和田野调查来构建叙事,而非依赖档案。我见证了中国环保公民社会的兴起与衰落,对中国政府未能信任和赋能环保力量感到惋惜。我观察到,在习近平领导下,学术自由受到限制,这让我对中国的发展模式产生质疑。我强调,环境问题与政治、经济和社会因素紧密相连,需要综合的视角进行分析和解决。 Judith Shapiro: 我认为,中国环保公民社会在90年代蓬勃发展,但在后期受到了压制,这非常令人惋惜。曾经,环境议题是中国公民社会相对宽松的活动空间,吸引了许多有识之士参与。然而,中国政府未能充分信任和赋能这些环保力量,错失了与社会合作改善环境的机会。这种不信任不仅体现在对环保非政府组织的限制上,也体现在对普通民众自发环保行为的干预上,例如,仅仅因为观鸟活动就被安全部门盘问。我认为,中国政府应该反思其管理模式,更多地依靠和支持社会力量,共同应对环境挑战。同时,我也对西方将环保运动与民主化简单联系的观点持保留态度,我认为中国环保人士的初衷更多是改善环境,而非推翻政权。

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Professor Shapiro initially struggled to find a job in environmental groups due to lack of experience. This led her to pursue a PhD, not just for qualification but as a career shift and an opportunity to write a single-authored book. Her lifelong vegetarianism and love for animals fueled her interest in environmental protection, particularly in the non-human world.
  • Initially lacked experience in environmental work
  • Pursued a PhD to transition into the field
  • Lifelong vegetarianism and love for animals influenced her focus

Shownotes Transcript

Prof. Judith Shapiro reflects on how the environment used to be a cause for which Chinese civil society was allowed to fight, until that too became sensitive.Host: Liu He

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About Peking Hotel

The Peking Hotel podcast and newsletter are digital publications in which Liu He interviews China specialists about their first-hand experiences and observations from decades past. The project grew out of Liu’s research at Hoover Institution collecting oral history of China experts living in the U.S. Their stories are a reminder of what China used to be and what it is capable of becoming. Get full access to Peking Hotel at pekinghotel.substack.com/subscribe)