From the Bayou to BJ: Chronicles of an American 北漂
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Hello, listeners, and welcome back to a new episode of Cultural Collision, Beichao Nan Dao. I'm EJ. I'm Victoria. In this episode, we venture on an enthralling journey with Jimmy, a southern gentleman who traversed continents from the heart of Baton Rouge, Louisiana, to the vibrant streets of Beijing, China.

Through our interview, we uncover some of the exciting chapters of his life, his decade-plus exploration of Chinese language and culture, the daring leap that took him from the Bayou to bustling Beijing, his immersion into an impact on the craft beer scene in China, and the captivating story behind his remarkable tattoo collection. Welcome, Jimmy. Thanks, EJ. Thanks, Victoria. Thank you guys for having me. The first question we have for you is, as someone who grew up in the American South,

The U.S. has a lot of different cultures, but I feel like the American South, the culture there is pretty particular. How would you explain the South and its culture to someone who may know nothing or very little? Well, so one of, I guess, the most interesting things for me is that I'm a first generation Southerner.

and I'm probably gonna be an only generation southerner. My dad is from Boston. My mother is from New Jersey, right outside of New York City.

And my father was posted to Baton Rouge because he worked as an engineer for ExxonMobil. They moved. They had been married for 10 years before they got pregnant for me. They lived all over the world. It's kind of sort of where I've got my wanderlust from. It's almost in the DNA. And they moved to Baton Rouge when my mother was pregnant with me.

and my dad was only supposed to stay for two years and ended up staying for 20 years. So I'm a first-generation Southerner that got to experience some of these parts of Southern culture. We talk about, it's about family, it's about being, you know, together. I think there's a bit more of

traditional sort of gent you introduced me as a southern gentleman you know what the sort of 19th century sort of southern gentleman would would be these values those things are still quite cherished in the south where perhaps they are not in other regions of the united states however i i can't say because i've only ever lived in louisiana and then china

So actually I'm not, you know, I hear that people from the Northeast are assholes. I hear people from, you know, the West coast are, you know, chill bro. What's up, man. And, you know, then I have the South where, you know, people are, everybody still wears boat shoes, you know, and the nice button up shirts to Saturday tailgates at LSU games. And, you know, but at the end of the day is just all about togetherness and, you

Having fun at the same time, you know, you could use the example of a Louisiana crawfish boil. You know, in China, you also eat a lot of crawfish, something I didn't know before. But in China, you can order individual crawfish, like one each crawfish is 10 kuai, 15 kuai, whatever. In the South, that's unheard of. You order crawfish by the pound and you mix

mix everything together, then you dump it all up into the table and you stand around drinking beer and eating crawfish with your friends while watching LSU play football or if it's in the fall, baseball if it's in spring. So really that I think is quite distinctive for the United States where the familial system is not really as strong as it is in China, but in the South it's still family is like

really very important. So I guess that's one of the main things that I would say that separates the South from other areas of the country. I'm going to be traveling to Louisiana, to New Orleans for the first time soon, and I'm pretty excited. I feel like Louisiana also as a state

And maybe this is specifically New Orleans also has its own distinct culture. I think that's even different within the South in and of itself. So much so that I found that on like social media recently, there's this guy who started filming parts of like Mardi Gras and like all of these other like festivals and bead throwing and stuff.

bounce music and all of this. And it like has started platforming people. Like all of these people are getting famous because this guy is including him in his videos. And I'm like, I want to experience that. I don't know if I will this winter, probably too cold, but. It's not too cold. It's never too cold in Louisiana. And especially in New Orleans, there's always a party. There's always a parade. You're very right in assuming that New Orleans is distinctive in itself, even within Louisiana and Louisiana in itself is different from the South.

But New Orleans in particular, its culture, if you look at the history, French, African, Spanish, all mixed together. And it was...

founded quite early on in the history of the United States as it is now, but isolated very far from the Northeast area where people were initially congregating. So it was really able to flourish and grow its own culture. That's why it was able to develop... Jazz music originates from New Orleans and that was sort of the perfect place

harmony of African, French, Spanish, all you know basically African and European culture mixed together and that's what formed jazz. So whenever you go down to New Orleans, even though it's Christmas time, you're gonna see a parade, you're gonna see live music. Too cold is not a thing, you know, we're talking Celsius, right? Probably gonna be like 15 degrees.

down there you know you'll probably be wearing your shorts with your hoodie as as you do usually so uh it's gonna be uh it's gonna be a very a very nice warm time both literally and figuratively as you experience what this culture is about and it's very much centered around eating drinking and being together so make sure you you know get ready with a an empty belly to go down there

the American South culture is very interesting. Like I think at most, most of it like sounds very new to me. It's not very familiar. I think we don't talk about, about like American South culture before, right? So what you just mentioned, Jimmy, is really interesting, but like, uh, what values were cultural aspects from your upbringing do you cherish the most as an adult? Yeah.

Just going, and I'm still sort of harping on this whole family and togetherness, something that, so I was born and raised in Baton Rouge, never always was there, never moved anywhere else. We'd take a vacation to Pensacola or something like that every year. Then I went down to school in New Orleans, which is only an hour away, but it felt like I moved, you know, across the country,

And then I moved to China. So I'm 32, but I've lived in three very distinct places for extended period of time. And one of the largest things I've learned there is that you have your forever friends and you have your situational friends.

So your situational friends being where you are now. So, you know, there's plenty of people in Beijing that I'm friends with, that I meet up with, you know, do something, have dinner, whatever it is. But I also know that

whenever the time comes for me to leave Beijing, that's probably the end of that friendship. And not the end of the friendship in the sense that we're not friends anymore, just that we probably won't be in contact. And that's how it is. And you know what? That's okay. It was good when it was good. But then you have your friends that you always stay in touch with, that you always will make an effort to go to see them.

throughout the rest of your lifetime. And I found those in Baton Rouge, where I grew up. I found those in New Orleans, where I went to university. And I found those here in China. So I think I really cherish just knowing this friendship and really treating friendship as family. And especially coming from a family that isn't very big. I have one younger sister

sibling and my two parents. We grew up, we did not have my cousins around. I have cousins, but they're all much older than me. None of them are the same age as I am. Both my mother and my father's side, you know, my grandparents on both sides, they were in the Northeast. I wasn't living around my blood family. So friendship was

you know, my close friends, I feel I love them just as much as I love my own family. So I think that sort of has come with me where I go here, where I am here and where I will go next. I'll always know that. And,

Also respect said situational friends. You know, you got to the, you're in this situation together. You're experiencing something that so very few people are experiencing and nothing can ever take that away from you. And so even though you might move on and never speak to them again, you'll always have those memories. And I think that that's something special. And EJ had mentioned the tattoos and some of my tattoos even, um,

embody that, whether it's the meaning of the tattoo itself or it's literally the tattoo picture itself because it's something that I got with a friend after a few drinks. We said, oh yeah, let's go get a Star Wars tattoo. I'm like, I don't even really like Star Wars, but I like you, so...

let's go ahead and get the Star Wars tattoo. Wow. I remember last week, Lydia and I were just talking about situationship. I think the situational friendship is a very similar idea. Because we're moving, we're living in different places, we met different people. Some of them are our lifelong friends. Some of them are just like Jimmy, what you mentioned. We live in this country for a year or two, maybe 10, and then we have like

meet someone new and some some of them will be our like very close friends as a family but some of them will be when we leave this country and we probably never gonna meet each other again no exactly and learning to appreciate that and understanding that it's okay you can't

it's not reasonable to be in touch with the hundreds, the thousands of people that you meet whenever you're always constantly moving and roaming around and stuff. So to understand like, hey, we had a great night or hey, we had a great four years and that's that. And I think that's wonderful. And that really comes from

me growing up in the South and just knowing, appreciating that sort of family values and just coming together and having a good time and just being relaxed. And, you know, it's very laid back and slow, much slower life in the South. You know, it's not always...

Not everything's jowdy, not everything, but he's honking horns and everything like that and fast skating where it's like, oh, okay, I'll be late. It's fine. That's, you know, that staying with me has allowed me to appreciate each day, each moment, knowing that

Some of the people that I'm having these experiences with, I'll always talk to. We'll be friends when we're 60, 70, 80. Hopefully by the time we're all that age, maybe we'll live into our hundreds easily. You know, and other times I'll just have that one night for those three years. But still, it was a good time and makes me who I am now and who I will evolve to be later.

You mentioned previously that before you were born, your parents traveled the world a lot and, you know, your wonderlust is, you know, might have been hereditary in your genes. I'm wondering, is that what sparked your initial interest in Chinese language or culture? Like your parents went to China and they showed you a picture and you're like, that's cool. I want to go too. Or did that come from another source? No, nothing like that.

like that. But so my biggest memory from all of their travels is my dad in his office had a binder of all the different money from whether it was coins or paper money from all the countries they had been to.

and even as a small kid I remember just going like opening you know whether we're seeing nothing China specific but you know seeing the Chinese coins with the hole in the middle that you know we don't have in the United States the bills of all the different colors the different shapes all of that it just always made me interesting and actually it wasn't China that started my wanderlust it was ancient Egypt so

So it was actually ancient Egypt. My grandmother on my mother's side bought me the like children's books on, you know, ancient Egyptian culture and stuff like that. And I was just instantly fascinated. And so it was actually, I remember when the movie, The Mummy came out, you know, I was like, I'm eight years old, it's 1999 or 2000, right? I was born in 91. And I was like, mom, we gotta go see this movie. We gotta go see this movie. And, you know, at the time I'm just like,

whoa, this is so cool. And now 23 years later on a Sunday afternoon, I'm doing nothing. I throw it on. I'm just like, whoa, this is so cool. I just absolutely still love that movie. And even though it takes humongous liberties with the culture and everything, it was just those sort of things always interested me. And I remember even being

middle school, high school being like I'm not staying in Baton Rouge like I want to see other things like in Baton Rouge I would say the people I went to high school with

probably over 90% of them are still in Baton Rouge, will always be in Baton Rouge. That's just the way it is down there. But some of us, you know, just were interested in other things. You know, I remember I used to work construction in the summertime and started off as a sort of just dusting, you know, sweeping the dust off the ground and stuff when I was 15. And then I worked my way up.

in the summer and because I went to university, which a lot of people in construction work don't do, they sent me on a project to Texarkana. The factory itself is actually in Scott, Arkansas, population 256. I stayed 30 miles down the road in Texarkana, which is Texas, Arkansas, Louisiana.

three borders right there and it's a city and you you're in all three. I remember the guy that I worked directly with shared the office. I was basically his assistant and I asked him, I was like, because that was the summer before I was studying abroad in China. So, you know, they're asking me about that and he's like, no, I don't want to go to a foreign country. I don't want to leave China. And sorry, I don't want to leave America. And

this is going to sound bad but it's also the south and you know they say things that are not super woke in the south and you know he he would said i have no interest in going abroad not even to somewhere like italy or england and the reason he said was in his words have always stuck with me is the food sucks and the people stink

That was what he told me for outside of the United States. The food sucks and the people stink. And I'm just like,

damn man but he literally no interest whatsoever and also probably didn't even realize that all the food that he's eating you know he makes Cajun food like Cajun is French itself and then it also incorporates a lot of Spanish and African like everything that he was eating and cooking that's Louisiana you know like

is from other countries but you know the south it is a bit closed-minded and not not the best education for a lot of people so yeah the the food sucks and the the people stink uh always always always remember that and i was just like no i'm still gonna go i you know i don't i don't think the food's gonna suck and i'm pretty sure the people aren't gonna stink

How do you feel after you moved to China and you live in Beijing for so long? You must travel a lot in China, right? How do you feel about the food in China? I travel all the time for work. Honestly, I'm in Beijing maybe one week every month, a little bit more in the winter because Chinese people don't drink beer in the winter because cold is bad, right? I love the food. I love spicy.

I love all the interesting things, you know, the, the, every time we go to, you know, YN or something like that, like, I want to eat all the local delicacies. I don't care, you know, what it is, or, you know, I ask, you know, I can see the people, the Chinese, the people that I don't know, they're like, oh, this guy is like, you know, he's going to think it's weird. It's like, no, I don't think it's weird. I just want to know what it is and I'm going to eat it. And,

And I love it. I love it. Actually, I think the further south you go in China, the better the food. The north is...

it's a lot of starches you know and just straight up meat and that's great i love it i'm not gonna sit here and lie to you and say that i don't love you know dumplings and right but same time the further south you go the more interesting the ingredients the different types of peppers and chilies i love spicy food like my fridge is very much uh

single male who travels all the time fridge where all it is is condiments and no food and it's mostly just different types of hot sauces whether it's from stuff I get off Taobao and get from you know Louisiana hot sauces or it's stuff I picked up when I go to Sichuan outside of Chengdu and it's like this locally made jar of you know chili paste from the the lady on the street I'm just like yeah I want that

And I take that back with me. So literally, my fridge is just condiments. And when I'm in Beijing and I order some noodles or whatever it is, just, okay, which condiments? I even base my...

Why my choices off of what condiments I'm going to be able to use. It's not actually what the food is. It's what flavors I can add to it. So I love it. There's so many flavors here and I absolutely love it. Absolutely love the food in China. Every region is specific. There's what China says. There's eight types of Chinese food. I believe it is what everybody says. I don't care about that. I love it. Every time I go, I love it. But again, further south, the better.

You talked about how your initial move from Baton Rouge to New Orleans was a bit of a culture shock in and of itself. So I'm wondering,

When you moved from then Louisiana to Beijing, I imagine there must have been a bigger bit of a cultural transition. And now that you've been in, you know, China for some period, some time, and you look back on that, how do you feel like that cultural transition has impacted you? I remember when I first got here, everything was exciting. The first few days, study abroad program, right? So they had stuff, you know, prepared for us, you

United States, we're not technically supposed to drink till we're 21. But in China, it's a, you know, it's a free for all. If you're eight years old, you can buy a bottle of beer from my company on the side. I had any sort of street as a pop, you know, right. And but then I remember moving into the homestay with Wang Ai, with my homestay mother and the homestay father and the homestay brother.

They didn't speak any English. My Chinese was super basic at the time. And I do, I remember this one morning where I really was like anxiety-

panic, like just lying there on my, you know, tiny bed that was, you know, yay thick with a pillow that was filled with rice. And I'm just like, oh my God, it's only September. I'm going to be here till June. Like, what did I do? Did I, did I make a mistake? How am I going to survive? And, you know, I just pushed through, you know, whether it was from,

you know a lot of drinking for from people that were at the study abroad program all of that and then with the studying of the language and living in the homestay you know it's just like you're getting to you're living with this family unit who've been together for 30 years and

you know, you're learning to adjust to their customs, you know, what time they wake up, you know, what they eat, you know, it was my first time ever, you know, being in a place where you could finish taking a shit and then immediately start showering, you know, because, you know, it's just all the one bathroom. Like it was just so completely different from anything that I had ever experienced. And then finally, you know,

one day from both the language standpoint and the homestay family, some point it just, it clicked and I was comfortable. I wasn't anxious anymore. And I remember the biggest thing was I used to have to haul all of my clothes down the five flights of the walk up to the laundromat to wash them.

And then finally, after about six weeks, you know, this is 2011 before smartphones and translation services and that, you know, we had two dictionaries, one Chinese to English, one English to Chinese. That's how we talked. And finally, it just clicked. And I was, we were really a family. And my home stay mother said, stop wasting your money. I'll wash your clothes for you.

And after that, she always washed my clothes. And from then on, literally it was...

it was like we became a family, you know, and she always, you know, my homestay mother, EJ, she was a wonderful woman with many demons and yet simultaneously so welcoming to everything. And, you know, for someone of her generation in China, quite, quite, quite Kaifeng. And, you know, she just started saying whenever it was like, oh, sorry, I forgot to

put the toothbrush in the right place or I forgot to do this, forgot to do that and you know before it was like really awkward.

And then it just wasn't awkward anymore. It was just like, nah, it's fine. You know, no worries. You know, walking into the house at 5.30 a.m., coming back from Sanlitoire. You know, back then we thought it was cool to call it Sanlitoire. And then, you know, my father's like waking up to go to bed and he's kind of like looks at me. I look at him and he's like, yep. And I was like, yep, bye. And then it was just, ever since then, it's just been...

easier and easier and to be honest if it wasn't for that homestay family experience i wouldn't be here now um that was the of all the things it was the homestay family experience for me that is why i'm here in china now that's fucking 12 years ago so that was it and that was really made it so back in 2011 you can speak chinese and your host family cannot speak english

Correct. I cannot imagine how you communicate to each other, right? That's very challenging. And you just like clicked and you feel like a whole family member for that host family. And your host mom treats you as her own son from birth.

the US, right? That experience is very, very amazing. I think it's very different. Is that also like the reason to have you make the decision to stay in Beijing? 100%. If it hadn't been for the homestay experience, as great as all the other things were, that was the thing that made me want to come back.

That was, you know, that was why I was like, yes, like, I want to be in China. I want to be, you know, near my Chinese family. I want to get to know them better as my Chinese is improving. I can finally understand more of what they're saying. You know, I remember for it was my...

The break between winter, sorry, between fall and spring semesters, I was a full year student where some students were one semester and some students weren't. And I stayed for the full year. And me and my friends were going to Vietnam. But my homestay mother's birthday was December 20th. And they left on December 18th. And instead, I chose to stay home.

two extra days in Beijing to make sure I was there for my homestay mother's birthday even though you know they were doing the Chinese thing like you know go go it's not important it's not important and then I bought her a new bike that was 400 RMB which you know doesn't sound like a lot of money now but at the time that was a lot of money for you know a 20 year old college student that didn't have a job and lived in China you know that occasionally caught in

English classes to EJ's homestay mother's kid and you know I bought them the bike and she got mad at me she's like why did you do this why did you spend this much money on a gift for me we're family why did you and you bought me a new bike it's gonna get stolen like why did why did you do that like you know we you you you just you ruined it you ruined it but

That's not what she meant at all. Like she was really like, I can't believe you did this. You stayed in like that. It had already clicked before. And that's why I did stay. And I went down to Vietnam, met up with my friends. But that was, I think, the defining the the next level of the defining moment for them was.

to know that I felt like they were my family and I respected them in that way not just simply a you know a host situation where it's a place to sleep and someone who is supposed to make me uh breakfast and dinner four days a week which instead my homestay mother you know after that first click which was around October early October you know breakfast lunch and dinner seven days a week

it no problem, you know, way beyond what they were expected to do. And like way beyond the blue tier that they got, you know, for her, it was not about the money and they're not rich at all. They're actually very lower middle class, but for, for her, it was the, it was the company. It was having the Meguards. It was having, you know,

someone there to spend time with and to talk to and to, you know, be around because, you know, the older brother was either working or playing video games. Father worked all the time and then, but still we come together at dinner and, you know, as soon as Baba walked in for dinner, you know, I usually be sitting in his seat smoking a cig. He walks in, you know, he doesn't even put his bag down and I'm getting up and moving over to the other seat. He's sitting right down, you know, it was, it had become, um,

a complete family dynamic we knew exactly how to live with each other and were there hiccups afterwards of course it's it was a real family you know of course there were hiccups and issues afterwards you know there was the time my homestay mother bless her soul you know got so drunk she was puking all night because she came with us and took tequila shots and

She's not used to drinking tequila. I'm holding her hair while my baba's holding the bin that she's puking in, squatting in his underwear, and we're just staying up all night taking care of her. There's the time that I got so drunk on baijiu that I accidentally sleptwalked and...

I can't believe I'm telling this story for the public, but fuck it, whatever. And I, you know, I urinated on a five kilogram bag of rice and then woke up the next day at 3 p.m. and had no memory of it whatsoever. Just wake up, hung over, like, go take my seat in the living room. Like, mom's on the bed. Dad's on his thing. Grab a cigarette just like this. Light it up. And they're just looking at me funny. And I'm just like, what? Come on.

You know, we're at that point where it's like, why are you looking at me like this? And they're like, do you not remember? I'm like, do I not remember what? And they're like, you don't know what you did? And I'm like, no. And then they told me and I was just, I don't think my face has ever been so red in my whole life whenever they told me what I had done.

And my mother telling me how my father had woke up, heard it, tried to shake me to get me to stop. I just didn't. And then I just went right back into my room. And in the middle of the night, he mopped up my piss and then threw out the five kilogram bag of rice. And I can't believe I just told that story for anybody in the world to hear. But yeah. Yeah.

That was at the same time, you know, looking back on it as awful as it was and embarrassing in the moment. And also the fact that it was just like, you know, a big apology. Of course, I bought them another bag of rice and was behaved for a couple of days, if you will. And it was perfectly fine. It was just like it would be.

with your own family back home if you you know you you fuck up and you say you're sorry and like all right you know don't try not to do it again and then it was fine and then just in the future afterwards when we get together now it's just you know it's a it's a joke it's uh you know hey jimmy remember that time you drank so much you you you ruined a year's worth of rice i was like yeah i do i

Speaking of drinking, I mean,

we know that we're very curious in your role that you've played in the beer industry in China. And, you know, as someone who joined the industry quite early, what were some of the differences or challenges that you encountered initially in the craft field? And how does that compare now to what it's like working for a major Chinese beer company? So funnily enough,

Where I am with the major Chinese company with Snow, China Resources, Snow Brewing, it is...

is almost exactly where I was 10 years ago with the craft beer industry. The craft beer industry just started. I joined in 2014. As the stories are getting told about craft beer in China, it was first started in 2008 with Master Gao in Nanjing and then Boxing Cat in Shanghai. Then Great Leap started in 2010, Slow Boat 2011,

Now, you know, some brands that said they were initially found in 2013, all of a sudden we're celebrating their 13th anniversary this year. I won't name names, 18 beer. Anyway, but the biggest thing was people were just like,

what the fuck is this shit you know like they're like we like it but we don't get it you know i remember going back to the homestay family you know started working there bringing them back a bottle of you know our great leaps honey ma beer which is made with local honey and the citron peppercorn and they just drink it and you know my mom she's that has alcohol she's fine my dad just remembers his face he's like hmm like what do you think he's like it's good

It's like, "What's wrong?" It's like, "What's wrong?" I was like, "So did you drink it again?" He's like, "No." He's like, "If you brought it to me, yeah, but no, you know, but it's good." But yeah, so that was the initial challenging, the education and that's sort of, that's what I've always been, funnily enough, focused on in my role.

in craft beer since I started at Great Leap was, I'm a bit of a schudadze, if you will. I got a, it's called Cicerone, so I got a Cicerone certification in 2015, and then I became the first person in China to get the second level Cicerone certification. The first one is an online test, the second one is a test, you had, so written examination, and you also have to do a tasting portion where you're smelling and tasting.

flew to Chicago to take that test and passed it and got that in 2017. And now craft is everywhere. You know, in 2014, when I joined, we had, uh, it was, uh,

I joined in 2014, Great Leap, working as a bartender. And 2015 is when I joined the company full time. And we had our China craft beer festival in Beijing. And there were like 10 breweries that came because there were 10 breweries in China. Now there are hundreds.

It doesn't compare to the United States as far as number and volume. It's not even close. They like to, a lot of people who write their China white paper on craft beer, they drunk be quite a bit with statistics. It's not nearly as big as they think when you look at the population of China, that's a different topic. But anyway, but now working for snow, snow for the longest time. And including when I first moved here, you know, everybody called it like shuaiqi, right? It's like watery beer. Like it's the, it's,

barely any alcohol in it, like 3%. But now Snow, after they signed a JV with Heineken in 2018, has been focusing on doing Kao Duan Pijou. So instead of calling it Jing Yang Pijou, they call it Kao Duan Pijou, but it's essentially the same exact thing. Using unique ingredients to enhance the flavor of beer and give

customers more choices. As the middle class and the economy in China is improving, not now since COVID. Again, different topic. We don't talk about that. The point is this started. And that's where I focus on. I'm not...

you know, flying around the country talking about Chez Hwa Chun Shung. I'm flying around the country talking about our award-winning Belgian wit, which has won gold in one of the most prestigious beer competitions in the world three years in a row. You know, raspberry beer, cherry beer, dark lager beer, these flavors, and that's what I'm flying around doing. So whereas 10 years ago,

I'm telling people what Jingyang craft is, you know, using unique ingredients to give different flavor profiles so that anybody can be happy. Even if you're not a beer drinker, you find a beer that, you know, you like to drink. That's where I am now with what's called Gongye Pijiu or, you know, the commercial, commercial beer where it's done on a

much, much larger scale. So it's kind of a weird 360 that I've done where, you know, I went and then craft beer, I was in the craft beer industry for eight years or so, and I get to see it all rise. And then more and more people know about craft. And now I've entered the commercial brewing world where it's a completely different type of customer. And also the biggest difference was craft was always, um,

B2C. So I'm engaging with individual customers that are actually drinking the beer. What we do at Snow is B2B. Our customers are distributors, not the individual drinkers. So who I'm explaining about the beer to are still people, but it's the people that then go and sell the beer rather than the people that simply consume the beer.

However, it's still very much at an infancy stage and the chairman of Huanren Xuehua, now they have Jiuye, they're doing Baijiu as well. He has his Sanjia Sanjia San Zhanlue, which is just, you know, it's the first three years are, so it's a nine year plan.

where the first three years are starting to understand what this Galdan Pidio is. The second pair of three years is starting to improve and get it done. And a third three years is realization and, you know, accomplishment and making this become a household thing. Now COVID sort of put a dent in that, you know, he's already said that we're in technically in the about to finish the first three

year of the third three, but we're, according to him now, we kind of have to add two more years to realize this, you know, where people are drinking the Belgian wit in a city outside of Chengdu at a hot pop place, you know, but it's getting there and it's cool and it's fun and getting to meet

people from all different walks of life, you know, people that are insanely wealthy, but you look at them, you'd have absolutely no idea. You just assume that they're just a regular dude. And yet they're, you know, a multimillionaire distributor who, you know, they live in the middle of nowhere, but also that middle of nowhere has 80 million people. And he's the guy that sells beer to 80 million people. So it's, it's quite interesting going from, you know,

where people didn't understand craft, where everybody understand craft and now people are like, okay,

But Xuehua used to be shit. It used to just be the watery beer you drink at Shaokao or a hot pot. But now, no, now we have all these events like, oh, like you've, you're doing full 100% malt beers, not using a bunch of rice to cut down on costs. You're adding in a Belgian wit, what makes a Belgian wit a wheat beer special apart from using wheat malts is that it adds a... a...

I can't think of the English point. And then xiangcaizi, yansuizi, and then orange peel inside. And it's, you know, these very, very different aroma, look, flavor. You know, whenever we taste beer, you say first you need to look at it and understand the color. Then you understand the aroma and then finally you drink it.

And that's very new for people in Chinese culture, because in Chinese culture, usually it's gambay, gambay, gambay, gambay, throw up, smoke a cigarette, puke and rally. OK, keep going, gambay. Whereas now it's like, no, no, no, no, no. Like you can still do that. But first, let's really try to understand this new thing that we're gambaying.

It's really quite cool and quite unique. I've always been interested in education in general. I always kind of saw myself potentially being a teacher when I was growing up. I thought I was going to be like a high school history teacher. Instead, I ended up becoming an internationally certified beer teacher that does beer teaching in China, which is fantastic.

a lot more strange once i say it out loud but yeah that's what i do

Jimmy Lau's beer. It's never been a beer fun, but like after just hearing you say it, I also know like the craft beer is very popular a couple of years ago in Beijing where like I only know craft beer a couple of years ago. And after hearing you say the whole, the story, I really want to go back and try the craft beers like Snow Maid. So it's very interesting, right? I feel like it probably tastes very interesting as well.

Dude, they're really good. I mean, I know people always used to make fun of Snow, but the thing is we have so many resources at our hand. I mean, it's a guoqi, right? It's a yangqi. It's the Chinese government. We essentially have unlimited resources to the extent that the Chinese, the party is willing to give us, right? So we have amazing brewers, amazing technologies. So the beer that we put out, it's

From a completely unbiased standpoint, it's fucking good beer. And it's cool to see that growth and also...

that's what the goal was, right? It wasn't done by accident. Like they, they made this plan, they executed it. And now it's getting to the realization phase. It's really cool to, to see that happen in real time. Well, our listeners, you might not seen like Jimmy's tattoos, but like he shows in the video and he has a lot. And he mentioned the earlier is you, you,

You did this, some of this like Star Wars friendship, right? Can you tell us more about your stories behind some of your tattoos? Scrapbook, first I'll tell you about scrapbook leg. So scrapbook leg is my left leg from the knee down where I'll put anything on it. I don't care if it's friends that want to get something done.

Even like I said, I have actually have two Star Wars tattoos and I don't dislike Star Wars, but I'm not into Star Wars like that. I mean, yeah, I know I've seen the movies, but like now that they have the extended universe with Disney and they're coming out with a movie every year, I can't keep up with that shit. But I have two Star Wars tattoos on my legs. I don't know why.

I mean, I do know why, but it's not because Star Wars is particularly meaningful for me, but the people that are with it and Star Wars is meaningful to them. And so getting the same tattoo as them is a really meaningful thing. And I remember, you know, I have over 40 tattoos. I remember every single one, even the ones when I was drunk. I remember who I got it with, when I got it and why we did it.

And it's great. And then I have like this arm here, my right arm, which also goes all the way up. It's all black geometric designs.

this one is actually a plan to sort of design piece by piece. I didn't initially think I was going to do the whole thing, but now I'm dedicating and leaving this entire arm only for this style to eventually have it come together as one big piece. It's already up here to my shoulder all the way on my upper arm here as well, but it's all going to be this style.

So I have those as well. And then I have the tattoos that are truly meaningful to me.

For example, this one right here is a picture of, this is from Lord of the Rings, The Two Towers, the tombs of the kings of Rohan. And it's the symbol mean. So basically the forget-me-not in the Tolkien realm. And I was never a big Tolkien fan. I love Lord of the Rings movies. Those ones...

Star Wars the way I love the Lord of the Rings movies. Never read the books. I admit it. It just is what it is. Never gotten to my reading list in school. Just hasn't gotten there. But this one is for one of my forever friends who passed away very suddenly last June. So end of last, so sorry, it was May of 2022.

So I got this tattoo because he loved Lord of the Rings. We watched the movies together. He had read all the books, you know, he had multiple Lord of the Rings tattoos. And when he passed away, I wanted to get a tattoo to remember him because from bat, he was from Baton Rouge, a forever friend from high school. One of my two forever friends that I have from, from Baton Rouge. And, um,

He again, it was very sudden. It was my other forever friend from Baton Rouge from high school that called me. And I still remember that day because he never calls me and he was FaceTime me just out of the blue. And he's like, hey, man, like, how you doing? You know, he's a very jolly guy. My friend Ryan, best person in the whole world. And I was like, hey, how you doing? Blah, blah. I'm like, yeah, yeah. Who died?

And it was, he was like Clayton. And I was, I was absolutely shell shocked. I was absolutely gutted. I can't quite a few friends have passed. Unfortunately, something that turns out I didn't know on Baton Rouge was there's actually quite an issue with opiates down there. My family did a good job of keeping me away from that part. And whenever, you know,

Ironically, I go to New Orleans, which is a much more wild city, yet it's the kids that stayed in Baton Rouge that got into this sort of stuff. I've had people from high school that I've known that have passed far too young because of issues with this.

This wasn't this case with my friend. He was healthy. He is married. He and his wife had just adopted a child and because they wanted to adopt because she was adopted, his wife, she was adopted. They felt that there are enough people in this world, enough babies that

unloved and that the adoption would be was better suited for them then than having their own kid and six months later she woke up one morning and found him dead in the bathroom and he had just had a sudden heart attack at 31 years old and had nothing to do with drugs alcohol or anything it was just some health defect that you know just happened and

and so and I have other tattoos you know I have one that's an elephant for my grandmother I have one you know for also for living people a friend you know my mother herself she always said she wanted a tattoo of a butterfly on our ankle you know very classic you know my mom was born in 1958 but my father you know she like nah dad would never let me and now I'm too old for this so I got a

of a butterfly knife on here for her. I have a lot, Harry Potter is my big nerd thing. So, you know, people have Star Wars, Star Trek, whatever. I'm Harry Potter. I,

I have the dark mark here on my arm that I also happened to get as a sharing tattoo with Augusto, my Italian best friend who just, you know, we're inseparable now in Beijing even since 2013. I basically taught him English. If he listens to this, he's going to laugh and say, no, that's not the case. But yes, his English was terrible before he became friends with me. And I introduced him to other foreigners.

And then some of it is personal just for me, like these ones in my hand, there's a couple of them, but particularly the ones in my fingers, these are my wuxing. So this is Mu Huotu Jinshui.

And I'm Xin Jin, so I'm precious metal, which I know make EJ laugh. So based on my Chinese astrology, my birth date, my time, my place of birth, I am precious metal, which means my body, my tea ever feels out of sync. I need water.

So whether that's drinking water, taking a shower, you know, I say drinking beer sometimes. So that's why my tattoo artist who designed this, it's the water park that's the largest. Because to remind me that if I'm feeling out of sync, add water. So, you know, everybody in China says to joke, add oil, right? Add oil. For Jimmy, it's add water. So anytime I'm not feeling very...

balanced. Some, I need to get into a pool. You know, I need to do something that has to do with water. So everything. And then I also even have some tattoos that were just a design. I saw that a tattoo artist posted that I thought that is awesome. I think that's amazing art. I want it on my body. So I feel like my body is a canvas, you know, the coming from the Southern United States, people say, no, your body is a temple. Um,

You know, you shouldn't get tattoos, blah, blah, the conservative attitude towards that. Well, no offense, but I haven't ever really been to a temple that wasn't covered in some sort of artwork. So...

I plan to have my entire body from the neck down, not, sorry, not including the neck of the face. I'll stay away from that, but everything else, chest, I want it all to be tattooed by the time at some point. Now, the only issue is I'm only 32 and I'm already getting kind of filled up. So I have to

start to exercise a bit more patience to make sure that I still have the space to get the ones that I want. And, you know, for if there's ever an unfortunate situation where, you know, I need to add something for a friend, I have space for that too. Jimmy actually went with me in Beijing when I was in Beijing. Oh yeah, first tattoo. When I got my first tattoo and I have on my left arm, I have a stick and poke of a map of Beijing. So.

Yep, I was there for EJ's first tattoo. I'm the only person in the world who has that tattoo and I'm very excited about that. Because apparently a lot of people wanted it and I got it. Yeah, no, Daga is great, but she's just being a hippie skateboarding down in Hainan now. And I forget the city that all the... It's not Sanya or Haiko. It's the one where all the hippie Chinese kids go.

she doesn't do much poking anymore. So you're definitely, you know, we were lucky to, I have nine tattoos from her actually. You were the one who introduced me to her EJ and I ended up having, I end up now have nine tattoos from Daga. Some that I asked for the design, some I just saw were her own design and I said, I want that. Yeah, she's a great artist. Shout out to Daga. Shout out to Daga. So our last question is,

Over the last decade in China, you've been an educator, you've been an entrepreneur, you've been an engaged member of the expat community. What advice would you give to those looking to chase their own China dream? China dream specifically? Or any dream. No, no, no. I like it. I'm just specifying with you the China dream.

Obviously, it's a little bit of a cliche of an answer, I guess, but...

be open-hearted and open-minded and realize that this is a place that is completely different from, if you're coming from the United States, of course, you know, Victoria, I know you're in Singapore and I know you're from China, but you're living in Singapore now. Like I think if you're coming from, if you're moving from Singapore to China, it's not as big of a move, but if you're coming from the States, Australia, Europe,

The biggest thing is to be open. And like we talked earlier in the show, you know, eat the food that they put on the table, even if it's, you know, it's a, it's a snake, but they don't consider it a snake because it swims under the water instead of on top of the water, but it's a snake, but they don't want to call it a snake because of that, you know, like just, just,

And say yes, like obviously, you know, be careful, but be willing to go outside of your comfort zone and say yes to things that whether they sound weird or boring or. Yeah.

you know, blase in any way or horrifying, exciting, however it feels like as long as it feels like you're not going to die, like,

Try it because you never know if you're going to like, like going back to Augusto and the Italians, you know, they absolutely refuse to eat pineapple on pizza. Right. But pineapple on pizza is good. Like, and, but you know, you gotta, you gotta try it before if you, if you think it's weird for your culture, you know, and also be patient. Like it, it,

You know, the phrase Rome, Jesus, talking about the Italians way too damn much. Augusto, you don't deserve this much attention if you ever listen.

When in Rome, you know, Rome wasn't built in a day, right? Like you're not going to immediately step into the perfect situation when you come to China. It's going to take time. It's going to take time for you to adjust. It's going to take time for the people to adjust to you that are in your life to understand you. You know, it's different cultures. And the thing is, is

Sometimes Western people, when they come to China, expats, they might find Chinese people to be, I don't know, off-putting sometimes or again, just different, right? But embrace the weird, embrace the different, be open, but also be patient because it's not going to happen right away, you know, and don't give up if

If, you know, your first endeavor doesn't work, but you have a feeling like that this place there's something more there that you haven't unlocked yet. You know, don't sell yourself short and potentially miss out on an opportunity that can change your life. I mean, I've been here 10 years plus one.

i've had multiple life-changing opportunities ej gave ej has given me himself multiple life-changing opportunities uh whether it's from getting me the job at esc or to just simply being my friend and being there for me whether you know i'm being an or i'm not you know everybody has you know going through different time like

These all take time and to build something that really matters, this would sort of go back to talking about, you know, what we what I said about the South, this family, this togetherness that takes time to build. You know, you're not going to automatically insert yourself into something that already exists. You know, it's.

regardless of if your Chinese is already perfect by the time you get here or whatever the situation is, you need to understand that it takes time. It takes patience. But if you give it that time, if you give it that patience, if you nurture it, if you really...

buy into it whether you know you're running your own business or you're joining a massive conglomeration or you're you know you're not owning a business but you're the sixth ever employee at a business in a in a hangian enterprise that nobody knows about like craft beer whether you're switched from craft beer into education and you have to start you know

not wearing a t-shirt every day and dropping f-bombs you know all the time you know like be able to move with the punches you know as a boxer you know you're not you're supposed to sort of lean into the hit to absorb it rather than you know always shy away from it you know that's something that I really think is is so important if you want to

I won't use the word successful because how can you measure success? Everybody's definition of successful is different. But if you want the experience to be meaningful and to have an impact on your life as well as the lives of others, it's going to take some time. You're going to be uncomfortable occasionally and you're also going to be okay. Like panic attacks, anxiety, all of that.

that can't kill you. You can't die from that. It's gonna be okay. And I've had panic attacks. I'm not trying to denote that. I have my own issues with anxiety and everything. I've had those moments where you do really feel like you're gonna die, but you don't. You just need to, you know, whatever method you used to push through,

whatever way you need to do, just if you really want to succeed in the sense of, if you just want to be here and you want to, by being, and I don't just mean physically, I mean mentally, I mean in every way, the word of being here, be patient, be

be open, don't be afraid to fail, don't be afraid of bad days because as many bad days as you have, you're going to have twice as many good days. And the roller coaster that it is in China and such a unique old culture that is also evolving so quickly to the world

you're learning just as much as they are in in this new 21st century so if you want to do it do it but don't be afraid and if you are afraid talk to somebody and you know what you're probably going to be okay after that so that would be my biggest advice is roll with the punches

and take your shot. And if sometimes you swing and miss, that's okay.

I know of course it's cliches, cisgender male coming for us to go to a sports reference, but it does ring true for what you're asking because that really is the key. If I didn't say yes to taking even this job at Snow where I'm the only foreigner in a company of 30,000 people, the first one ever,

Going to cities for fifth tier cities that I've never even heard of getting rejected from hotels because they don't want to have to deal with, you know, registering the foreigner, you know, all of these things you just like

You just gotta shake it off, you know? You got 60 seconds before the next round, and then you go again. And maybe this time you score some more points. But that would be my advice. Sorry, I ramble. No, no, no, you're good. No, you're fine. You'll be number one, EJ. Um...

Thank you for those words and that advice. As we draw the curtains on today's episode of Cultural Collision, Jimmy's journey from the Bayou to Beijing serves as a testament to the beauty of cultural intersections, spontaneous connections, and the life-enriching experiences that follow.

Join us next time for another captivating exploration of cultural convergence and the enthralling stories that arise when worlds collide. If you enjoyed this episode, please share it with your friends, family, and anyone who might benefit from this discussion. It really helps us out. Remember, keep embracing this cultural collision where stories ignite, connections flourish, and perspectives expand. See you next week. Bye. Bye. Bye. Thank you, guys.