Duncan Ferguson: Red Cards, Bust Ups & Goodison Park Memories | Stick to Football 79
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Granger, for the ones who get it done. Gary said we're starting at 11.35. Gary's in charge. It's Ed Brownies, isn't it? Right. Right, you said 11.35. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm really sorry. I got sidetracked. Do you think you're like the busiest man in the world? Busy as in busy or busy? You're both, girl. Do you know my nickname when I was in the youth team? George Switzer gave it to me. What was it? I love George Switzer's Our Left Back.

He used to call, he used to say, why are you always buzzing around? He'd give me the name Busy. But, you know, it's fine. I used to take it as a compliment. What did your app stand for, yeah? Busy... You can't say the other word. Yeah, the worst word you can think of. But it was a lovable phrase. It wasn't an aggressive thing. I think if someone gives you a nickname, they like you really. Yeah.

Do you know what I mean? You think? Yeah, cos you've got to have that, like, rapport. Yeah, I agree. If someone gives you a nickname, it means they're comfortable with you. Cos you don't give nicknames to people you don't like, do you? No. Behind the back, yeah. I'm low on potassium. Is that what it is now? I think so, I think so, yeah. How do you know? I can feel it. What, so you just feel like you're low on potassium? You've got your energy or something? Yeah. I need something. Usually people will say I feel a bit low on my potassium levels.

They've dropped a bit. I like the rugby shirt, Jill. Thank you. I like you. I used to wear rugby shirts when I was younger. It was like a fashion thing, like the Ralph Lauren ones. Yeah. But they've come back in, haven't they? And the Abercrombie ones. This is the night one, actually. Is it? I look like I should be on Stick to Rugby. I like your hair. I like the rugby shirt. Anyone else like the rugby shirt look?

I feel like they can't say no when I'm here. Yeah, I got that part. No, they could. When they get out, they'll be like, did you see the state of those? No, there's some right arseholes out there that definitely would say no. Have you had one of these? This brownie's amazing. I like it, Jill. You look cool. Should we take these away? Should we start with Duncan? Should we start with the end with Duncan or should we start with his career?

Righty. Start of his career, surely. So Sally Nugent, who is BBC presenter, does the news in the morning. She's lovely, Sally. Yeah, she's baked some brownies. She's left. Was she here? Yes. Oh, I didn't even see her. Right, we've got to spot the secret ingredient, apparently. Yeah, it's weed.

That's why you're feeling how you're feeling. I've never had weed before. Have you never had an edible? I've got brownies instead. Hello, you OK? You all right? Come on. Ian, would you like a brownie? No, I'm on a diet. I've been on a diet for three days by the way, trying to get in this shot. Well, you look good. Thank you. I'll let you into that one. Do you still train?

As much as I can, Gary. No, I'm no religious on it, you know what I mean? But I'll go to the gym maybe two or three times a week if I can. Try not to run, try to lift a wee bit of weight, that's that. It's just the eating, innit? As you can see. I know. It's hard to keep off the eating, innit? Discipline. Tell me about it. Like yourself, I can see that. You're looking well. Do you eat well?

Average. That could be the first actual section of our chat. You should be talking about discipline. I don't need too good. I don't need great, but I am on the go quite a bit. There's a few red cards between us, isn't there? How many did you get? I don't like boasting about it, but I got eight. That's more than me. What a link to our first part.

You got your big move from Forest to Man United and you made it, didn't you? I got my big move from never. I just crashed and burned. My wife's upstairs with her three-month-old baby. All you hear is bang, bang, bang. You've got the mist. I had a left-foot shot. Schmeichel made a save.

But my God, it haunts me. Oh, no. It absolutely haunts me. He'd come and say, she's a big skinny kid on the left, you know. And he only took 15 minutes to spot me. I went to Scotland to the Euros in 92. Ryker'd come in on my mat and I thought, God, he knows who I am. I was only about 100 quid a week, I think. Got let out at, I don't know, 10 in the morning or something. Bear in mind, I've not met the manager. He says, can you play? I said, sure, I can play.

This is the biggest talent in Britain. If you've got any trouble, I'm going to get the blame for it. So I attempted to keep away from a wee bit. Do you think we're missing sometimes just going into a big centre forward? You need a striker. You need a striker to score a goal. It was a punch to the solar plexus. But I thought it was somebody else. Duncan, one of the best sections we ever did on this programme was Roy denying that he got 13 red cards. He said, I never got sent off that time. So we had to basically list every single one.

It was 13 red cards. The funniest one was when he said, yeah, it was in white. So he had seven Premier League red cards. How many Premier League red cards did you have?

Eight. Eight. You're top, aren't you? Congratulations. Congratulations. Top of the red cards. Eight I'll go to you. I've only played about 30 games, I think. I was injured the other time, wasn't I? So, Duncan, you need to take us through. Do you remember every single one of your red cards? So your first one was where and who again? Can you remember? I'm trying to remember. Aim.

I can't remember. I can remember, obviously, the red card sequence, I'm not sure. What was the first one? The first one was in 1995. Why are we starting on such a negative note? Because he mentioned about red cards. I thought, well, let's start there. Or discipline. He mentioned discipline, didn't he? He mentioned discipline. We're older now and wiser, so we can reflect, Ian. I can't remember the first one, Gary. So it was 1995. Did you get something from Scotland as well?

Yeah. I've got a couple up there. I've actually got a 12-game ban up there for something. What was that for? That was the thing in iBox, wasn't it? Was it a headbutt?

- No. - Was it a headbutt? No. - Oh, OK. - Don't be saying that. - I was just guessing. - Don't be saying that. - I was like that. - In my defence, I only grazed the guy. That's what I said to Nicole. I only grazed him. - Was it a punch? - No, it was a headbutt. - Oh. - It was a headbutt. - Oh, was it a...? - It was a headbutt. - I wouldn't... - Was it a proper headbutt? - No. - It was a little... - It was a graze. - A graze. - I got a 12-game ban and three months in prison at the same time. - Jesus. - Three months in prison?

Wow. Oh, wow. Jesus, don't. Go back to the red cards, please. LAUGHTER It's just a happy bill. That's maybe why we missed out Scotland. No, so first red card was Arsenal against Everton, 13th of January, 1995. Yeah, I should know who that... Apparently, you lost your temper with...

midfield player John Jensen yes I pushed him and he screamed to the ground I remember I pushed him and he fell over and the referee had his back turned and he turned and gave me a record because right he was running up going red red red no I was not I wasn't doing that it's red I wouldn't do that the word here it doesn't say push to the ground it says floored

a push or a float? It's a push it shouldn't have been red carded no way you're not a mouse honestly that's very similar to how Roy's went actually like a similar start we have the same legal team I was victimised the second one was a couple of months later in fact six weeks later I thought I'd come back for the ban it was against Leicester City

Do you remember it? At Leicester. Yeah. That would have been Filbert Street then as well, wouldn't it? Yeah, I do. It was an elbow on the centre back and again, it was accidental. Yeah.

We're not judges here. Do you think the reputation of that, because you said with John Jensen, you said with John Jensen that he heard the scream and he just turned around and gave it to you. Do you think that the referees, without even looking, they've just spanned straight in? Absolutely. On this one, you've jumped up and you've given it there. To who? Which sender have? I think it was Oskushka, I think. It doesn't say who it was, actually, on this one. So should that have

been a red? No, I didn't actually do that. You just went up leading. It wasn't a swing in there. You just went leading. Like normally. Okay, the third one. Third one to start the next season. The third one was the start of next season against Blackburn Rovers the 21st of December. It was...

What date, Gary? It was the 21st of September. Oh, September. Yeah, it was... They want Christmas off. Normally we're in the entry. We're sent off in the entry. What was this one for, Duncan? That was for nothing violent at all. I was singing. I was singing. It must have been a bad song. I was singing on the pitch...

to the referee who was receding at the time and I was singing like you know who's David Ellery I was singing who's a baldy bastard who's a baldy bastard na na na na I can't even believe I said that I can't even believe I said that I said na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na

That's what I was singing. But I was singing it all over the pitch and there was quite a few people who had no hair but were all looking at me and going, you're singing at me, yeah? And Tim Sherwood come running up. Tim Sherwood coming up, he looked like Tarzan at the time. He had hair down to here. He's talking to me, Ref, you know, he's talking to me. Tim had hair down to his shoulders, you know. The referee gave me a red card. For singing? Aye, for singing. Who's our ball guy? Obviously you weren't happy with his decisions or the way he was refereeing the game at the time.

I don't know I can't remember yeah probably I can't really remember obviously he's done something innit but it was his fault it was his fault and he was bald

Yes, it's not like you're telling lies. I don't think the second thing was right, you know what I mean? Right, yeah. But he was bald. And then, to be fair, you have an 18-month gap. Oh, well done. He was in your den. LAUGHTER Dope. It was 1998 was your next one. It was at home against Derby on Valentine's Day, 14th February. Oh, did you know that date? No, obviously not. It was... Do you remember it? Yeah, it was nutty.

It was parallel one shot, wasn't it? Yeah. That was wrong. Apparently here he says he crashed to the floor and writhed around in agony. Yeah, it was a naughty one. I think it was a long throw and he was tugging away at me. Well, he just happened to walk by me and say something and that was enough. And I floored him, aye. Not nice. You floored him as in terms of elbow? Elbow. Elbow. At least you got a Valentine's Day card. I met him in...

It's terrible when you meet the boys. Oh, man, it's terrible. I'm looking at you like... Do you apologise to your folks? It is horrible when you meet them. It's embarrassing. I met him and he'd come to the training ground to watch the training and he'd come, you know, I was like, sorry. I was bowing to him, you know. But there you go, it was a bad one.

You felt a bit of regret? I do. I do because it was a cheap shot. For that one, not the others. The other ones are all right so far. Just that one. Your fifth one was at Goodison Park. Oh, four-year gap, April 2002. You'd just been instilled as the Everton captain. It was against Bolton and it was quite early in the game and you actually issued an apology at the time for this one.

I'll quote my disciplinary record has been good over the last few years it was it was four years wasn't it I know that I know that I know that was just a one off incident I'm now trying to put that behind me and look forward to the next couple of games do you remember it who wrote that who wrote that was it he was it I've got no idea that's the letter which has been a few statements about me yes I do it was it was

Bobich or Bobich? Bobich. Yeah, Bobich. Freddie Bobich. Yes, it was a punch to the solar plexus. But... To the solar plexus. And I didn't know it was... I thought it was somebody else. I thought it was Nolan. Nolan. Oh, you wanted to get Nolan instead. Because I knew he was a red. And I thought he was at it. And I thought he was bludgeoning away at me. I thought it was him, so I turned around.

I thought it was him. Oh, so you basically, he's behind you and you've just gone like that? Yeah, and I thought it was the kid, Nolan, because he was a big red and I thought he was trying it on me. Could you claim mistaken identity or something like that? Not my finest moment. Do you think because you were just made captain, because I remember the day I got sent off, I was captain and I felt like extra pressure or I'm trying to get you off with it here. Yeah.

Or was it just in the moment? I could say, yeah, it was just a lot of pressure on me being the captain, but really I was a bit naughty when I was a bit daft, really. You do daft things, don't you? And as I said, I thought he was a red, I thought he was a Scouse kid. There you go, daft things, stupid. It was the day we were younger. Yeah. Let's move on. OK. How long have we got? The show's nearly finished. This episode of Stick to Football is brought to you by Skybet.

So I played centre-half against you two or three times, which is incredible really, the size of you and obviously I was a small centre-back. You were a big part of our team talk when we played against Everton and he would absolutely focus on you because I think he knew you obviously from the Scottish type of thing.

And he used to say to me, whatever you do, don't make him angry. Whatever you do, don't antagonise him. Whatever you do, ask him where he's going tonight, keep away from him, don't try and pull him. I could have been anywhere by the way. Don't try and pull him, don't try and sort of touch him, just leave him as he is and he's fine. If you get him angry, the whole crowd will be up. You scored a few times against him. Yeah. A couple of corners definitely. May I remember?

You marked me in one, didn't you? I think I did, yeah. Why are you marking me? Are you up stamp no fancy? Maybe I was just supposed to block you or something, I don't know. No, I do remember that. We would block you. Going back to your childhood, you always played centre forward, didn't you, from being a kid? Left back, believe it or not. Wow. Yeah. Coming through under nines, there was a big trial going on in...

everybody wants to play centre forward didn't everybody everybody wants to play centre forward until you're crap you start going back the way towards centre mid back back back just keep on going back the way so everybody wants to be a centre forward there was 50 kids there trying to fight for their positions and the boy says we need a left back you know

and I was left footed so I put my hand up I was nine I play left back so I played left back and then it was left back it was inside left or left half all the way up the left hand side left wing I broke through done United on the left hand side inside left left wing

And then ended up at centre-forwards, I got a bit older and a bit stronger, you know. So you had a good left foot and you had a good understanding of the left-back position because obviously they've taken one. Yeah, the full-back position's easy, isn't it? You can see everything. Honestly, the amount of ridicule that my position gets is untrue, you know what I mean? By everybody. So I worked my way up the left-hand side and in the end I worked my way into centre-forwards, I got bigger, I'd done United, that's when I broke through then.

and I moved into centre forward position Was you always tall? I was called wee dunk I was small I was called wee dunk back in the day small skinny running about in the estates you know as you do a piece and jam for your tea my mum and dad would be screaming at me just now so not a lot of food type of thing it was like you're just small aren't you and I just filled it as I got on When did you start to spread up? How old would you say?

I was only about 15 probably 15, 16 wasn't he fancied nobody fancied me as a player that was going to kick on I was really slow really thin and behind everybody else you know

And it wasn't until I got about 17, 18, 19, I started filling out. Stopped growing. The testosterone kicked in, you know. I had knee hairs on my body, you know. I was 18. Yeah, I had that one as well. Nothing.

I didn't need a hair anywhere. I didn't need a hair anywhere. It caused me a lot of problems, Ian. I was in the showers and all that, you know, and people were singing, there you go, Baldy, Baldy. That's what it stands for. I was a really late developer, you know. It wasn't until I stopped growing, I got a bit of hairs on my chest and that on my chin, et cetera, and I kicked on a wee bit, you know. I got a bit of pace then. You get your man strength in a wee bit, you know.

I was always behind and it was a great man, God bless him, Walter Smith, who kind of, he pushed me, you know. Saw something. Because he was at Dun United, he was an assistant at the time, Walter. Of course, right. And he spotted that, you know. Nobody fancied me and he'd come and say, she's a big skinny kid on the left, you know. And it was me. And he only took 15 minutes to spot me and that's when I got my YTS in. Wow. Went up to Dun United for Walter. But Walter then moved to Rangers under Graeme Souness. So I missed Walter. Yeah.

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So where was you playing when Walter saw you? Was you playing still left side or was you playing centre? I was playing on the left-hand side then as a kid. I was about 15 maybe. Just getting ready to try and get a YTS. And he was still in university on a red-ash pitch. Right. Remember the red-ash pitches? Yeah, yeah. We used to play in them, you know. It was Niagara Asset in Scotland. Wow.

It was all red ash. So how many games had you played before Rangers bought you? Oh, four years. No, two, three years. Maybe 18 I broke through. Maybe moved it to 2021. I did well at Dunn United when I was a kid. Were you ready for that move? I peaked too early. I was in my prime. I was in my prime about 18, 19. Were you ready for the move then to Rangers? Was it perfect timing or did you go a year too early? Too early for me. It was too early for me. I was not ready. They had a lot of great players at Rangers at the time. But...

I wanted to move from Dunn United. I was having problems with the manager. I was always getting fined. I was always skinned. I had nothing. Why were you getting fined? I did fine for daft things, you know what I mean? Stealing a car and driving the car around the buildings and washing the cars in the car washes and that. I'd take the manager's car. He'd tell me to go and wash the car. So we had Jim McLean who was a real disciplinary and a bit of a tyrant, honestly. But I used to take his car, you know.

and he said go and wash my car Fergus and we stayed there on a Friday and I'd take his car and I'd rob the car and I'd drive it round the car wash you know and I'd bring it back you know and the next minute there'd be four or five of us in the car and we'd all be driving it round Dundee the police would be stopping you and all that it was nuts that's what we did if you weren't ready for Rangers where could you have gone if you were leaving there then what would have been the next Everton so Howard Kendall before you went to Rangers where could you have gone if you were ready for Rangers

Do you know what I mean? I could have stayed but Walter wanted me to stay where I wanted. He wanted me to stay for another 12 months. Right. Because he had Ali McCoy there, he had Mark Haley there, he had other great players there who had done a lot of winning. They'd won like title after title and he was bringing me for backup or the start in a year's time or two years' time but because I was desperate to get out...

I wanted to get out and then Leeds had just won the old division Leeds before the Premier League had kicked in so I went to Leeds and spoke to them they wanted me to replace one of their strikers Leed Chatelain they wanted me to replace him so I went down to Howard Wilkinson to speak to him and after I spoke to him that was it I never went back I was fucking bored stiff to be honest lovely guy lovely guy great coach but oh my god he put me to sleep and

But I was a Rangers man, you know what I mean, at that time and I wanted to go and play for the Rangers. And Walter said to me, look, we'll bring you, we'll take you. And they took me and they paid too much for me. I was a bit too young. What did they pay? They paid four million quid for me, which was a record at the time. And I wasn't ready. So I was going to be a sub then, you know. And then once I started, I wasn't playing...

And it just started to go downhill for them, you know. Yes. I met Ali, didn't I? My God. Once I met Ali, my career went like that. Was there a lot of pressure because of the feed? Massive. Did you feel that? Yeah, I felt it. Was you getting stick for it? Terrible sticky and that. I had minders everywhere I went. I had minders everywhere I went.

So everywhere I went, Stirling or Glasgow or everywhere, I'd have people with me. For what? Is that Celtic fans? Everybody, I suppose. I was a young guy who'd come good. I was in the local area. They weren't a PC, didn't they? They weren't a shot at it. So that's what happens as you all go through. What was your demeanour? If they wanted a goal, you'd probably have a go back. Tough for me to walk away at that time. Tough when you're a kid to walk away. If only you just walked away, you know? Yeah.

But sometimes you get backed into a wee corner and you've got to commit swinging. I did that a few times. So between 18, maybe 17 and 19, I had three or four assaults against me.

Even with the minders there, Dunks, what were they doing? Yeah, not doing their job, were they? One of the very good minders, I'm not paying them too much as well. I ended up doing it, you know. So I got a few assaults against me when I came out. It's funny, I hear that. Because when I was at Celtic for the Rangers game, I had to have minders, which was quite intimidating. It made me feel a little bit like, what, really? I need minders? What for? And it was the week where he was going to play Rangers.

So I could totally understand that, what it would be like. Because you don't know who you're going to bump into. I don't know how you was, Roy, when you went there. But you don't know who you're going to bump into. I remember one time I was coming out and I was slammed onto the bonnet of the car and it said no retreat, no surrender. You know what I mean? So then I stayed. I didn't come out.

I didn't come out of the hotel because, you know what I'm saying, I'll just stay in here. What's the point of going out? You don't know who you're going to bump into. Are these minders like big guys? Yeah, but they can't be with you 24 hours a day either, though, can you? No. I was probably 24 hours a day, so they needed to be with me. But no, it was tough for all, you know what I mean? If you had to go to the...

whatever, the supermarket, you had to go and get yourself aftershave or a Valentine's card or something, you know. You had to take the minder with me, a couple of minders with me at all times because I had a few assaults against me. They knew if I'd got another assault, I was going to go to prison because I was on probation for the assaults I'd accumulated, you know, and I was put in probation.

So if I heard another assault in the street, I was going to prison because I broke my probation. As it happens, I broke my probation on the football pitch. It happened. So it never happened before and it's never happened again. So I got put in prison for that incident on the football pitch and they changed the rules then because it was wrong, really, what they did to me, you know. That's what happened to me in the end. Obviously, you're at Dundee. Yeah.

and you're basically how old are you when you move to Rangers 20 I think 21 20 I mean obviously now you talk about what sort of salary jump would that be would that have a big impact on you as well in terms of the money that you had access to because if you've gone for big money like 4 million your wages have gone up to a decent level haven't they yeah I think we're on 45 quite a week now old YTS you remember that wouldn't you no I was an OITS and

I was £40 a week £40 a week it was £29.50 and then £11.50 expenses yeah in 92 yeah so the Euros were 92 weren't they yeah I played in them right so I went to Scotland to the Euros in 92 and that Dutch team had Van Basten and Koeman and Hulett and all that Rijkaard man marked me in that game I was made up you know I come on the pitch and Rijkaard come in and mark me he knows who I am

It was really surprising. I was only about 100 quid a week, I think. Then? Then. So I was 20. I think I was the youngest player in the Euros that year. I think I was the youngest player in the tournament. I think I was only about 100 quid a week. And I went out to Rangers. To this day, I don't know my salary. I don't know what I signed for. I've never got a clue.

but it would have been a lot more than £100, I know that. And, you know, I just wanted to go and play for the Rangers too, but when I was in Waltham, that had been chasing me for a couple of years, you know. He'd already signed me for Dunya United, hadn't he? But it would have gone from £100 to £4,000 or £5,000 a week. A few grand, a few grand. Let's say it's £3,000. It would be a good number, £8,000, you know. Because I remember when I went to Leeds, I think they were offering me £5,000 at the time, and I was going to be their highest paid player. I went to see me Gordon Stratton, and me Gordon Stratton, I went to his house and all that, and Gary McAllister, and

trying to butter me up you know and they're building that big new stand at Ellen Road I had a wee yellow hat on going round the stand and that you know what's it called a cantaloupen stand what's it called cantilever cantilever sounds like an antelope that I've seen there so I'd went down to Leeds and I'd went back to the Rangers and yeah that was it so a year too soon for me this episode of stick to football is brought to you by Sky Betts

When you think about Rangers, who was in that dressing room? You mentioned Mark Haley and Ali McCoy. Who were the other big characters in that dressing room? He and Durante, who come down to Everton with me. I love Durante. I followed Ali and Durante around. I was a Rangers boy and they were my idols. They were my heroes. I mean, David Cooper was my idol and I was on the terraces. No other time because I was always playing on a Saturday but I'd watch the Rangers now and again and Ali and Durante, they were my men. I used to room with Ali when I was a kid.

and he idolised him Was that weird? What was it like the first time you ruined him because he's your idol? Yeah It was entertaining Did you play many games together? I can imagine No I'm paper sounds like a good partnership I couldn't break through I'd had injury I'd went with an injury a hamstring injury and he

I couldn't break in I got an injury with a hamstring and never scored hundreds of goals and won eight titles in a row I managed to get enough games to get a medal but I was a bit of a part player really And were you a good pro, Duncan? Were you a good pro in the gym? I was in the gym I was always in the gym So if you weren't playing regularly you'd be a good lad? Yeah, I was in the gym but when I was younger I was daft as we all are a lot of years are

and I should have been in the house really. Was it the fact of the spare time and being in Glasgow and just the thrill of being at Rangers, you just would go out and just... You think you've made it before you've made it. Yeah.

Didn't you? You know what I mean? You got your big move for Forest to Man United and you made it, didn't you? I got my big move and never. I just crashed and burned, Gary. That was the simple way. I just wasn't ready for that. Did you know what was happening at the time whilst I was in? Yeah, I was known because Walter and I used to tap me up. They used to come and sit in a lay-by in Stirling, you know, and I'd go up and beat them. You know what I mean? So they'd be tapping me up, you know. And Richard Goff, the Everton captain, he was fine for tapping me up. Right.

because at that time Rangers boys went to Rangers Celtic boys went to Celtic and that was it going back to your thing it's a lot of sectarianism up there isn't it and that's why there's a lot of aggression and problems up there but yeah a year too soon and then they came up and they were trying Durante was going to go Durante had been there forever so Durante's crying his eyes out and Wallace says Durante we want you to go then he called me in and he says Everton are up

and then with who you're hat in the ring you know I'm starting to cry my eyes out so Durante's crying his eyes out well you've failed haven't you you've got your big dream your big move at the time and you failed I couldn't have broken into the team

And then they said, you know, Everton, Premier League, it was just beginning then. And the daft thing is, I knew a lot of Scottish players would play for them, but because they played in blue or something, you know, blue shirt, I'll go, you know, I like blue, so I'll go to Everton. Wow. And that was it. And that was it. I got my move to Everton. So Walter pulled you in the office and just said, look, it's time for you to go? Yeah. The trouble I had.

Walter really fancied me obviously he saw me since I was a kid he believed me to go to Dungey United and then he paid all that money for me to go back to Rangers and I'd let him do it I'd let him do it at the end of the day I couldn't break in

I never gave myself a chance to drink it. Yeah, but you were young, weren't you? You were young. Did you have anyone around you? Did you have anyone that you could have listened to? I had no excuse, Ian, no excuse. My dad wasn't a drinker. My dad never stopped drinking. He was a young man. I had no excuse. And I was just nights, you know what it's like, you get into that circle, away you go, and that's what it was. And to be fair, the Rangers team were winning. They were established players.

They went for a night out and they won, but they were playing. That was not playing. But I was going in the night out, following them around. That's the biggest regret in my career. I never gave myself my best chance to break through at Rangers because I'd done so well at Dundee United. I was ripping it up. Was the same lifestyle at Dundee United or did it change when you went to Rangers? Just a bigger bill, I suppose. Just a bigger bill. Different profile is unfair, isn't it? It was tough. But the night suit, it's just...

Rangers had that culture as most teams back then did Arsenal or whatever it was or Man United Rangers was no different and they were winning I got my wee medal I think they won nine in a row at the time Celtics topped them for the tenth Do you think that feeling of disappointment was then when you got the Everton move I'm going to make sure I don't feel like this again?

I could easily say yes because I was disappointed I never I couldn't crack it at Rangers you know I was obviously determined to prove people that you can play you know what I mean I proved at Dunn United I could play at Dunn United but when I went to a big club I crashed and burned but going back down south I wanted to show people that I could play and still play and I was fit then so I was fit Was it a loan initially? A loan three months loan me and Durante so me and Durante come down with me

we had a terrible injury he was a wonderful player but he got a really bad injury and that knackered him so he didn't go sent back up the road so you're off to feel yourself you loved the game though did you you loved training and playing yeah absolutely you were passionate for the game I'd be the first in the building

Neville South would be the first in the building because Neville was a strange cat he would come out from Wales at 5 in the morning or 4 in the morning and drive because he was comfortable in his own place and he'd drive into Belfield I'd be the next in he wouldn't be in the gym I'd be in the gym so I'd go in the gym I'd do my weights I'd do my preparation I'd do my training and then I'd go back in the gym and I'd be last out of the training ground

but everything was a good fit for you it was a great fit as soon as you walked in it was just yeah I just felt it they needed somebody like me the team wasn't very good the strikers weren't very good at the time but we were struggling at the bottom of the league I think we were last in the league I had lost 14 games or something crazy amount and it all turned for us you know what I mean it's like you get a result and as it happened it was Big Joe Royal's first game

he come into Everton Mike Walker low stage job member Mike Walker had a good run at Norwich Bayern Munich I remember Bayern Munich and he come in and they sacked him after four I was there for about two or three games they sacked him big Joe come in and that all changed for us all you know he knew the club he changed the team we played Liverpool and I scored my first goal for Everton against Liverpool so it was a nice start you know what I mean so everything changed for me then that's a great start that's a great start

This episode of Stick to Football is brought to you by Skybet. When did you start to get that vibe where you're kind of the leader of this team? Did that come early when you were at Everton or was it later when you really started to... I think there was one or two I looked up to, like Dave Watson, Waggie. Right. Big Neva looked up to because Neva's a world-class goalkeeper. He was coming to his end. Waggie was... A game was coming to the end. And I was probably next in line then, you know. And quite quickly, I quite...

I was the boy in the dressing room I suppose that people looked up to in a way you know but that first game that you played against Liverpool that you scored in because I did something with you a couple of weeks ago it wasn't the easiest build up to the game was it? No it was terrible I was actually I actually got lifted

so we're playing on the Monday night and I'm in the motor house in Liverpool right just twiddling my thumb you know and I'm going for something to eat as you do Saturday night you know next time I'm in a restaurant I had a few drinks a few glasses of red wine

gets in the car which he shouldn't be doing obviously and I jumps in the car I'm jockeying jockeying down to the hotel it was all getting renovated at the time and blue light sinking feeling honestly it was terrible but it's something I'd saw before in my life you know so the blue light coming behind me

and had a 50-50 chance if it was a red or a blue and the minute he stepped out of the car I knew I was done he was a policeman with a big red and he knew me right away we were playing it was a Sunday morning let's say it was two in the morning and he asked her Ferguson have you had a drink I just had a couple to drag me to the St Anne's police station

breathalyzed me and I just blew out the limit I blew 38mm 35 was the limit I blew 38mm so just a wee bit too much it was stupid of me again young daft stupid got lifted I'm in the cell and all the policemen are arguing with each other and all they're screaming you've got your star striker in there he's got to be playing him all night so they come back and I blew it again I'd come down a wee bit to 37 or whatever it was but I was over the limit

got let out at I don't know 10 in the morning or something this is the Sunday before the Monday game Sunday aye big deal bear in mind I haven't met the manager I don't think I'd met the manager at the time or maybe no I don't think I'd met him had he come in the day before and he'd take his first training session I went to the training training at 2 o'clock the game's at night on the Monday night we trained on the Sunday and I went in and I said look obviously it was all out of the city and I said to Big Joe you know I said eh

I made a mistake here he says just another one you know I said well you're young he says you're young is that what he said he says you're young he said but don't do it again you shouldn't be doing that I said no no no he says can you play I said you're fucking right I can play I need to play I need to play

any right year plan and it was good management to him yeah of course and I'd let him down I'd let him down obviously I'd let the team down but he knew he'd get a reaction on the pitch when I went out that night my god I ran as hard as I could I ran as hard as I could you know for the team and for the fans and it came off for us did you have a good game scored scored I remember it I did alright in the first half second half I was a wee bit better big Razor booted me up there big Razor Ruddock who was their big enforcer if you like yeah

he kicked me up there a few times and that got me I was just going back to where Alex said to you don't kick him you know so he booted me around the place really well did you go after the game to celebrate yeah I did I went right I was a pipe pipe with any one I mean we just beat we were both in the league we just beat Liverpool right

next night after the game we walked right down to the city centre right down but this time I went down with 20 of my mates I'm not kidding there must have been 200 behind us all team handed right into the nearest nightclub and we just we put the place up in the air

and put the place up in the air that was wonderful times like you know there you go when was the time when was there any time where you thought right I'm done with that man I'm playing well here and it's going well I'm leading everything I just wasn't strong enough for you to be honest I wasn't strong enough to leave it I thought I could burn the candle at both ends I thought I'm big dunk and you live up to that reputation but you know you either had this guy you ever walked this planet you're the toughest man I ever put a pair of boots on

A lot of rubbish, you know. A lot of absolute rubbish. Did any of the senior players at that time, if you're being young, did any of them say, no, come on, sort of try and mentor you and get a grip? They were wares, weren't they? They were wares, Gary. You know, most of the boys were wares, you know. Most of the boys back then were on that school then, you know. I mean, what I remember really is, it's probably not right, was Arsenal a wee bit when Wenger came in. I might be wrong.

But when people say to us, "Arsenal have got no booze in the team bus, you know, or there's no booze in the players' lounge." - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - We're like, "What?" - Starts at you. - "What? Come on! You know, God almighty!" But we heard that it was coming through from there, you know, maybe we ought to have phoned them. - It came straight from Tony. - "Where do you go?" - And, you know, people would come, play the game, and then they come in our bar, no drink.

You know what I mean? There was no drink and, like, Tony was happy with that. He said, no, that's happening, there's no drink. And then people were like, well, we're shooting off. Yeah. You know? But it wasn't a bad thing. I thought it was a good thing for us. We probably heard that, you know, in the wee bit about creatine or something. We're taking creatine, we're taking that, you know what I mean? We'll be careful what you're doing. Is it creatine? LAUGHTER So, you know, the booze and that, so, you know...

That was a plus, wasn't it? Who were you playing up front with when you first went to Everton? You're asking me. Paul Reid was there. They brought Daniel Amakachi. Good guy, Daniel. I actually went to his wedding in Africa. That's another story. He actually didn't know it was coming. So...

Did he invite you? No, he didn't. He didn't know you were going? He didn't know I was coming. It was a wonderful, wonderful wedding. He'd come on a big throne, this lovely big throne, and they were carrying him in, you know, lovely colours, and music was going on, and they were throwing petals, and the dancing and the music was fantastic. And I'm not kidding you, he's coming in this throne, right, and he sees me standing there, and I'm like, he's wearing like this. Oh, no.

I swear he's coloured green for his face. You just found out he had the wedding and just went? I just went. Wow. I remember when his wedding was, it was in the summer. I knew he was going.

did he invite did he invite people did he invite the whole team oh nobody's going to go to Africa wherever it's Tunisia or somewhere nobody's going to go nobody's going to be daft enough to go to the area there well guess what there's always one of them oh that was nice of you though amazing effort no it is I think it's good teammates isn't it did you know there was a free bar was that what it was no bar there was no bar was there no drinking all right of course right the religion and that you know hmm

I found a way that's another story another offence in there somewhere so it was Paul Rideout because that's 30 years ago and that's when Everton last won a trophy and that was in a game that was my first time I played against you

So I played centre-half, you came on after half-time, and I played centre-back and Roy, you played in the game, do you remember, 95? The final? The final against Everton. So you think about it, we played against Everton in the final in 95, we've lost the league against Blackburn the week before.

go to the final and Everton beat us yeah Paul Rydell yeah big net was good that day wasn't it but I remember yeah scored a couple of good chances I always remember scoring what was the score? 1-0 we lost Paul Rydell scored that's right in the first half well Gary Abler played didn't he Gary he played he played for Liverpool lovely man lovely man Gary God bless him and then

Yeah, I was coming back for a double hernia. Again, Big Joe done me a favour. There was only two subs back then, I think. Was there three subs or two subs? Two or three, yeah. And I was coming back for a double hernia. They put mesh on me. In fact, I was the guinea pig, I think, the first guy to ever get this mesh put in your tummy. I was always getting hernias. And they put this mesh in. And two weeks later, I was trying to get a cut final. I was pleading with Joe. You know, come on, Joe, you've got to put me in, you've got to put me in. Because we'd beat you. We'd beat you in the February 1-0.

At Goodison, I took my top off. Oh, was that the one when you ran down the side? I did that, aye. Yeah. I remember when Giggs did it all the years later. I'd beat him, I'd beat him. Who had the hair on your chest? I was bald completely. Come on, keep up, Jill. I thought you had hair by then. No, I'm still bald. Oh, OK, still bald. And then...

yeah so where was I you threw me off there no celebration celebrate majority and that's it so he remembered you scored I scored the header we win 1-0 we've got you in the final

Joe's thinking get him on the bench the fans will get behind it and if he comes on I wasn't fit I should not have played and I think one of the dogs he wore a lad called John Ebrell I think he never got on the bench he never got his medal and I've never said anything to him but I've always thought about him he played in the semi-final against Tottenham he beat Tottenham 4-1 battered them and I played in the quarter-final

Joe put me in there he missed out on his medal you know yeah but that's the manager the manager has to make that I know I got my medal you could have given me your medal could have done could have done we weren't in Man United coming you couldn't have lost many finals could you nah I lost it nah I was one that was a that was a bad one that was one small one

It was a bit of an end, it was a bit of a, I remember that night where we had the party after the final. Obviously you have a party already organised but it felt like a bit, because that summer, I think Incy, Mark Hughes, Andre, it was a bit of a, it was a bit of a, Is that when everything changed? That's when we truly came in and people say 92, we came in, that was when we came in, the four of us, five of us and then,

and that was the summer that he decided to get rid of three or four but it was a big shock there was like a bit of a transition in that summer yeah that was a tough couple of weeks lost the league and then I could find out yeah and he changed off the back of that that's the game innit you made it you got a few didn't you you made it up for it didn't you yeah but yeah and Everton never won another trophy did they no I mean how do you think about that in terms of obviously your affinity with Everton you wouldn't believe that a club the scale and size of Everton that that would be their last trophy I think at that time you don't do you you think it's going to come all the time yes like I played in two Scottish Cup finals

I played in two Scottish Cup finals I'd won the league with Rangers albeit a bit part I wasn't a regular two Scottish Cup finals now I'm in an FA Cup final you think it's going to happen all the time don't you? the office had manulated it probably did and you just get into that habit but you know maybe when you're younger you think next year I've got to do another final and then it just never happens that's why it's been a great this year obviously great with the clubs teams maybe getting to the FA Cup fine they've not been there for a long time obviously Newcastle winning the cup

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When did you feel that connection with Everton in terms of that feeling? Because you've got a special relationship with Everton fans, obviously with the area as well. I think with the goal. I think the goal against Liverpool was a part of it. Because obviously they're our old enemy, so to speak. And I scored my first goal. Then we went on. We only get good results and we stayed up in the division.

and probably scoring against Liverpool, against Man United, the big games, you know what I mean? The fans remember the big moments, don't they? And obviously, although we're laughing about it, off the field, I was always in the city, I was always with the fans. So that doesn't mean I was always out with them, but I was always visiting them. I was always with them.

So I was always with the Everton community and the Liverpool community because all the Reds have been all good with me as well. I've never had a problem at all in Liverpool my whole career. Not one problem. The minute I came south, there was no problems off the pitch in the main. It was only that time of the drink driving, really. The guy broke into your house, though, didn't he? Oh, aye, Christ, aye. There was two, wasn't there? Yeah, it happened twice to me, aye. Did you get them? I got them both times, aye, unfortunately for them.

what happened I know you've told this story before but what happened when they actually broke into your house you're upstairs obviously in bed I was lying on the couch because after the game you can't sleep can you you can't sleep after the game so your adrenaline's pumped we played Watford and FA Cup I've got a funny feeling these two guys were watching the television or match of the day or something thinking I'm playing it's there I think they were stoned or drunk or whatever was going on there must have been

So I'm on my couch at quarter to one in the morning, just with my trackie, trackie bottoms on, knee top on, trainers there, and it's quarter to one and I just heard something. That's scary. I just heard that again, just heard that again. I put my trainers on, they were right there. You couldn't have made that up, honestly. Trainers were right there. I was fit as a fiddle then. Just pumped up for the game.

and i had a conservatory and i could see the two shadows walking through the conservatory and i just wanted my hair was pounding in my shop your eyes lit up oh i was i was pumped up you know what i mean my hair was pumping over your case you knew

I was thinking, you know, what do you do? Obviously, I was going to go forward when I... What is it, fight or flight, is it? Yes. And obviously, mine is the fight one. So I went forward, you know, and the boys had a chance, really. They never knew what hit them at the end of the day. They were going one way and I went after them, you know. And that was it, end of, really. They got caught and...

Spent a few days. Did you keep them there until the police got there or what happened? Well, one was too quick for me. One of them got off and the other one, I got the other one. I couldn't get the two of them. And the other one, he run. He run. Left his mate, you know. Good pal, eh? Yeah, exactly. Good partner in crime there. Gone. Out of the fence. It was me and Phil. No, he said he was quick. Yeah, you'd have got caught. So... You just held him there? I filled him in. And...

And to be fair, I gave him a bad one. I filled him in. I was pumped up. What are you going to do? What are you going to do, Ian? My wife's upstairs with her three-month-old baby. It's one o'clock in the morning. She's shouting out the window. She's hearing thud, thud, thud.

Right? She doesn't know. And all you hear is bang, bang, bang. And she's saying, why you going to fucking kill him? Stop. And I'm just, you've got the mist. Yeah. You know, you're looking down and you're, oh my God, you know. So there's two options. I had to phone my mates to

tell him to come and drag him away and you know whatever you're going to do I think that's not a good move here that's not good or they phone the police you know and my missus what do you want to do I said you're going to have to phone the police you know and obviously get an ambulance at the same time so that's what happened and it happened to me again I'm not going to so long the second time I was no I was used to it I was more professional I was more professional anyway a lot of football getting talked about isn't there yeah

We don't talk about football much. When you look back at your career, do you think of yourself, I mean, obviously Rangers, obviously you loved it. Do you feel like an Evertonian more than someone who was at Rangers? Absolutely. You do? I don't know. I didn't even look at the Rangers results, ever. I've never looked at Rangers results in my life, really. Wow.

What happened then? Because you were a supporter of Rangers. When I was a kid, up until around about 20. Maybe because I hadn't made it, you wanted to forget about it. I come down south, the connection with the fans, they looked after me, you know what I mean? I never needed any more reminders. I was just a bit freer. It was a better league. I was fitter. I was happier. So it was a tough leave in Everton then when you left Everton?

Was it tough when you left Everton? Yeah, it was tough for me at the time. It was tough to leave it because I loved the club. I didn't want to leave. So yeah, I loved the club. It was a great club for me. It suited me. It suited big centre forwards. You know the traditions of big centre forwards? It's very Scottish boys. So the whole thing fitted right for me. Everton was the right fit for me. And I loved my 10 years I had there and 10 years as a coach.

So did you feel when you left there, did you feel you had to leave? Was it for financial reasons? Why did the club say...? It's quite a big fee. Eight million quid it was at the time. It was quite a bit. It was rude to try to get me to Chelsea sometime before. Glenn tried to get me to Chelsea when Glenn was still there. So there was wee connections with Chelsea. Did you feel you had to leave? No. No?

They said to me they wanted the money. They needed the money. So the banks were closed. This is their spiel to me. Who knows? Maybe they just wanted me off the books. Right, okay. It was probably the highest earner. But they were getting a fee of 8 million quid. And I remember they were paying the money up, paying 7 million up front and a million down the line, which was big at the time. It was near the drip. Yeah. Yeah.

and I didn't want to go I said to Waller I didn't want to go Waller was trying to back my corner how hard he was backing it I don't know you don't know what's going on behind the scenes I was a saleable asset and

So they sold me. How old was he then? It happened quickly. 25, 26. So he's still prime. Still young though, isn't it? Yeah, a few injuries at the time, but I was fit. When I got a run of games, Jill, I was good. I was all right. I've got 10 operations, you know what I mean? Doesn't help you dancing around, does it? Dehydration, things like that. We didn't know back then, did you? The rehab wasn't... You're not drinking enough water and things like that. I had 10 operations. That held me back in my career. Any time I got a good run...

people were wanting me because I was good at what I did like target man good in the air people were wanting that you know when you went to Newcastle did you play with Alan Cheever I did he probably one of the best strikers you played with if you had to pick one

We'll pick Alan, won't we? Yeah, Alan and Wayne, I would say, was the two best I've played with. Wayne was only young at the time, obviously breaking through Everton, just a young man, but you could see where he was going to get to. Wasn't quite there, but he was still a top, top, top player. You could see where he was going to be. Did you look after him in the early days? Kind of, Gary, and a wee bit I tried to shy away from Wayne. Because Wayne was younger than me. I think Wayne looked up to me. I was like maybe his hero or something in the...

I was a wee bit worried. I wasn't the best role model. Right. He's a young kid. This is the biggest talent in Britain. Even though I wasn't, if he got any trouble, I'm going to get the blame for it. So I tended to keep away from him a wee bit. You didn't see it the other way round? You know what, let me make sure that he doesn't do it. Maybe I did. Maybe I didn't. I don't know. I don't know. You're young. You're just thinking about yourself, aren't you, that time?

He was going to Newcastle. He was heading up to Newcastle, Wayne, and I think I advised him against that move. When was this? When he was 16, 17? Yeah, maybe a bit older, 18. Just before he came to Man United, I said to him, look, Newcastle's a great club. It's a wonderful club, wonderful fans, but if Man United and Saral Ferguson want you to go and play for that great team, you're better there, you know. That's what I said to him.

Wayne was going to do that anyway I suppose but it was close to going to Newcastle but you always knew it was going to be and Alan what I found with Alan was see when I headed the ball somebody got an end to it and I thought that's strange that

it's a good player this guy you know what I mean because if it was Everton I'd head the ball and nobody would get it you know I'd jump and I'd jump and head the ball and head the ball like 50 times in a game you know because we just shelled it down the park I'd head it I'd head it and nobody would go to the end of it I went to Newcastle we put it down once I flicked on and he was there that was the difference it's a good partnership he was a top top player he was the him and him and when I say the two best strikers yeah not bad I tell you about me you were something else weren't you how many times how many times did you score against Everton

every bloody game you must have scored I think I scored someone showed me the other day because we played it was 10-12 or something did you incredible amount you scored against us that's a great start you scored against Everton the other time that's why I'm so sad did you like Goodison did you have a good scenario I don't know what it was I always liked Everton

When I went there, the fans were always, the players were, I don't know what it was, it was one of those teams that always happened. I think I scored four against them one game. You know? That's why you liked it so much. You tied up the title once, didn't you? You tied up the title against Everton. Remember Tony Adams running through the halfway line and smashed a left foot? Unbelievable. Half a volley into the goal. I'll never strike one like that again. That was amazing. Where do you feel like you played your best football?

Everton Everton when I was younger I played my best football when I was younger I was between 18 and 20 probably that was my best when I was young and injury free and then around about 96 I was fit again

debut for Newcastle they played Everton at Goodison and God bless them Gary Speed scored his first goal for Everton I set up long ball jumped up flicked it on for Gary Gary come from nowhere as he did come deep scored his first goal for Everton

We beat Newcastle 2-0 in Allen's debut and I was fit. I'd had a full pre-season and we'd played Newcastle. They'd paid the big money. We battered them 2-0 and I did really well. And then we had dues on the Tuesday or the Wednesday night at Old Trafford.

and again I was flying I knocked two in in the first half winning 2-0 at half time I think I scored Was it one on the turn? Was one of them on the turn? I won in the turn coming in I turned it and I hit one with my left and then I got a traditional

flick to one of Gary Gary got it with somebody else and Hinchcliffe crossed at the back post and Big Smite was flapping it at the commentary seat I think and I got it in and to this day it's funny the wee daft things the negative things I missed a sitter a sitter with a minute to go 2-2 you pull it back to 2-2 right and I think at that time nobody had ever scored a hat-trick

in the history of football at Old Trafford obviously it's not right but it's like a long long time and God bless him Gary Speed the ball comes there and he's went to hit it and he's missed it it's come to me and I'm not kidding you know when you've got time and I'd seen Schmeichel coming in and my wee legs I think my bottle went you know the ball come and I had a left foot shot Schmeichel made a save but

But my God, it haunts me. Oh, no. It absolutely haunts me. I should have headed the thing. It was on the ground, like. I should have went in and headed it. So that was really about my prime, then, I suppose, in a way, you know. I thought we'd have a clip of that chance. No, no clip of that. We can get one. We can get one. Always done well against Man United. Always done quite well against yous.

you have a top top team and everybody wanted to chase you you were the best so I'm sure it was a big game for you because you were at Man United but for all your opposition it's the biggest game Liverpool Man United you've got to be on your metal all the time haven't you do you think we missed that a little bit in the game because we were talking last week

about obviously playing out from the back and stuff like that. Do you think we're missing sometimes just going into a big centre forward, knock on, or even crosses into the box? You scored a lot of headers from crosses, didn't you? I scored a load of headers in my career. I think I love to see a headed goal. It's all different ways to play the game, isn't it? All coaches have got different ways. I don't like the coaches getting stuck in their six, in their inbox. I went down that road 15 years ago. I was doing that with Evans Academy, and I was crazy on it.

And everybody in Everton will tell you, I developed through the youth system, I coached all the youth teams at Everton and I was crazy on possession, nuts. I'd watched the Barcelona team, remember all that great team you played against them, didn't you? And they were phenomenal, weren't they? And I wanted my team to do that. So I did that relentlessly. The centre forward would be standing there like that, catching a cold, but I was addicted to that 15 years ago. Why? Why?

Because I watch Barcelona day and you're thinking this is the way you do it and you try things and instead of just going direct and pushing everybody up, you're trying to split centre-backs out, you're trying to bring sixes in, you're trying to bring your eights down, you're trying to bring your wingers up. But don't everything have their own DNA? Yeah. Don't shy away from what your club stands for because not everyone can be a Barcelona or a Real Madrid and everything has a certain DNA. Yeah, but then we were talking like we said last week about everybody just jumping on that and wanting to do that. Yeah.

Would you do it differently now? Would you coach differently now in terms of if you... Well, I have done, Gary, because that was in the academy, so I thought that was the best way to develop the players in the academy, get that... So I did that and I was addicted to it. All I wanted to see was possession 80%. So I wanted to see... I wanted to get...

99% possession I was thinking well if we keep the ball if we get the centre and we keep the ball for the whole half right that's 100% possession if they didn't get the centre and we win it back and we get the ball and we keep it again and score in the last minute we're in 99% possession and we've scored the goal and we've won 1-0 that's the daft things I was thinking when I was a younger coach keep the ball keep the ball keep the ball and it was good

at that level it was good to develop the kids on the ball midfield players like you get into the ball field I was coming receiving and getting turned which it wasn't and getting the ball getting the ball getting you 100 passes in a game not so much and I know it

As you're going in your career, you've got to score goals, you've got to win games and you've got to adapt. I've adapted as a coach. When I first went in at Everton, I wasn't going to build from the back. We were fighting relegation at the time. I wasn't going to risk that ball because how many mistakes you see getting made back in your own box. So right away, we're in the boat of my league. I want two strikers, I want my midfield players and I'm going to take no risk to begin with.

we're playing Chelsea and it's going to go route one bang I had a big striker play off him that's what we did so I adapted but yeah in my academy days I was mad on the possession crazy but I went into the big league in the Premier League and I adapted What about when Caledonia first when you were in Venice how was that in respect to how you were playing was that defensively or was it attacking what was you thinking I had the second best defensive league I had the second best defensive record in the league

right you're a defensive team I play three at the back I play three centre backs I started with two centre backs and I think when you've got the best team you're cool with that I think two centre backs are good when you've got the best team we went to Dungey United and at Tannadice and I changed to three centre backs that's the first time I'd done it in my career the first time I'd ever done it in an academy I'd never done it I hadn't done it at Everton why'd you do it

I did it because they were playing against a better team and Dunion 8 were a better team in their strength in the wide areas so they were good on crosses so when you've got a back four and you're narrow you don't want to leave that now because if you get that out there you're on a 1v1 it's hard to get out there so you get your back five and you're closer to it now

So when the ball was switching to a down-united winger, my full-back or wing-back would be on him right away. And plus I had extra bodies in the box as well if they ever wanted to cross the ball because they were good doing crosses. So I wanted an extra centre-back in the box and I wanted my full-back, wing-back getting to their winger quicker.

So I adapted to that game and we got a fantastic result and once that happened I'm thinking it's no bad this is it I went with it again I went with it again I kept on going with it and we never conceded any goals only Dunn United conceded less than us How on earth we dropped out of the division is beyond me with a plus goal difference we were three points off a fifth it was incredible what happened to us

And then up there, you donated your wage, didn't you? Because the club was struggling. Did you sacrifice your wage and your salary? I did. I did, Gary, aye. The club was skinned. The facilities were terrible. I mean, it was shocking up there, you know what I mean? There was nothing. There was no support, really. They'd offered me three grand when I first went up. Then it went down to two grand the next day. I should have smelled something, shouldn't I have? But they're not quite flush, really.

so then I went down to £2,000 then I went down to £1,200 and in the end I just said to him just keep it you know what I mean keep the money keep it to the staff do what you want but at that time I was paying for everything anyway you know What was it like mentally because obviously you're not getting paid for it it's not going well what were you thinking how long am I going to do this for Yeah but I still loved it Ian I still loved it but only those two games when we dropped into the division

I'd only lost 11 games in 40-odd games at Inverness or something crazy. I'd only lost 11 games, but drew too many. I never had a striker. You need a striker. You need a striker to score goals. I never had one. So we're getting draws, draws, draws, draws. Couldn't get a striker in. Couldn't get a striker in. So I loved it. I loved my coaching. I'd come all the way through. I'd been with Everton's 12s and 14s all the way through. I loved that.

When you did the caretaker manager role, say at Everton, and obviously when you managed other clubs, did you do a lot of the coaching? Because obviously we're seeing managers now that kind of step to one side. Were you very much on the grass? Yeah, I did it all because I had my upbringing coming through at Everton. And I was a development coach. I coached a lot of young kids, you know what I mean, who had been there. Mm-hmm.

So, yeah, I like the day of coaching. Everybody does it different. I mean, I worked with Big Sam. Big Sam kind of stood back a wee bit and maybe on a Thursday he would do it. I know Salax might have seen the same. Cloughy might have been the same. Of course, yeah. Wenger, was he hands-on, Ian? He was, yeah, to me. He was out there all the time, yeah. I think there's a right... I just... I did it myself. Yeah. Maybe if you were in it for a long time, you might maybe step back and delegate a bit more. Mm.

You've got to be seen to be doing it. That first day on the job, you've got to do it. It's my only job you're doing. You've got to do the job. You've got to show everybody else you can do the job. I'll go to a club my bit of forest, win one of my sisters pre-season. I'll do this. No, no, you're not doing nothing. I'm doing it. I'll do the first day's job. I'll do the job. And you show everybody else you can do the job and you continue as long as you want then. You've got to show people, haven't you, first? Would you go back in? I mean, you're good on the television.

But would you go back into coaching? I'd love to go back in. I'd love to go back. To lose my job through administration, it's hard for me, you know what I mean? To do all that hard work, to do all that graft, to go through all my badges. I was in at Finch Farm for 10 years, Gary. Yeah. First in, last out. I put the lights on, I put the lights off. Maybe they'll say anything different. I did it all. I worked with everybody. Champions League managers. God, I worked with two of them, I think. We won last night, Carlo. Yeah.

I'd love to get back in and I just think I've had a hard break on the administration. I don't want to end on that. I think I've got a lot to offer. Are you applying for jobs? Aye, I do. I do apply for them. I've been offered a couple at a lower level and you just think, you know, your prize is a big thing, isn't it? I managed to evern.

and I ended up going to Forest Green I didn't know where Forest Green was I didn't know where Forest Green was honestly you're in the Premier League right you's know you're in the Premier League your whole life you're coaching that's what you're thinking about you're not thinking about anything else there's no fit outside the Premier League there's no Salford there's none of that you're not thinking

and somebody phoned me and said it's a Forrest Green job you know I thought where's Forrest Green like and eventually I took the job you know your first interview where they were asking you about the the vegan stuff it was one of the great interviews that yeah it was just hilarious I've seen it yeah I just honestly I didn't matter to me the boy was there good fella great things about him yeah

And he obviously bought that, you know, whatever. Duncan, this is Kieran. Kieran, you met me. He's a big Liverpool fan. Gary, hold it there so we can see you. OK. Have you ever tried vegan food? I don't think I ever have, no. No, but I'm here. Chips are vegan. I will do. Chips as well, yeah? Chips are vegan. They are vegan. Oh, OK. Yeah.

Chairman, I've just managed to rustle up a couple of vegetarian burgers to show Duncan. Duncan, I don't want you to bite into one on camera, but what do you think? They look lovely, don't they? Very nice indeed. I'll look forward to eating that later. LAUGHTER

That was not believable, was it? We have to go back here. It's the most important bit of this. You recycle? You do all that sort of stuff? We try at home, yeah. We try. The earth is warming up, isn't it? He says we try because the planet's warming up, isn't it? The planet's...

The guy looks like he's got a snake wound his neck. Don't care. Just come on. Just pull a bit. What did you have to do? To get a job line, honestly. I thought the guy had a snake wound his neck. He's just, his own gear looked like that kind of guy, wasn't he? Yeah. Good guy. Great lad. This episode of Stick to Football is brought to you by Skybest.

Goodison Park obviously the last how many games left there now three three or four three or four games what's your thoughts on it in terms of sad but also in some ways the right thing sad sad in a way because all our history is there isn't it all our history scoring goals all the older players and all everybody's dreams are on that pitch aren't they really people are through ashes on the pitch you know it's you know it's

in a way I wish they could have stayed there I don't think it was possible but

that's gone now they need to make new history don't they and hopefully that will give them a chance to catch up with the big boys in the league get more revenue it's a lovely stadium lovely bit it's great Moyes going back as well yeah I think it was inevitable Ian you know he was going to go back before and I think around the time I had the job it didn't quite happen for him but I knew they wanted him and he was close to it and I think Calo come in just stopped that you know what I mean a wee bit

but it's good to see him back he's done a great job since he's been there I think it was inevitable he was always going to come back it seems like it's perfect timing that's happening he's come back and it feels very nice it's ending nicely it'll be good for the city it'll be good for Everton and good luck to him do you go and watch games would you go back no I've been to one or two my kids have got season tickets Roy so they've got a few season tickets here and we'll go to the new stadium I've not been doing I've been by it a few times

and I'll go to the opening game type of thing, you know. We'll see where we go. Exciting, isn't it? Finally, last thing. You're about to bring a book out.

Yes, I'm a 50 mate, I think. 50 mates out? Yeah. What's it called? I worked hard on this. It took me a long, long time to think of the title. So, Jill, what's the name of the book? I don't know. Big Dunk? Can't be you going with it. They worked really hard on the title for that. They earned their money, that crew, I tell you. Big Dunk. And who wrote the book, Duncan? A boy called Henry Winters. Oh, Henry Winters, yeah? He wrote the book, yeah, very good. So, yeah.

It was an experience. Obviously right from the start all the way up to... You've got a great story. Yeah. A young boy I back in the day. But yeah, it was interesting. I think when you do your book and you write it and you see it all down on paper you think, oh no. No, no, no, I don't like that. I was in a terrible play scene when I saw it for the first time.

I was thinking, God, you know, I can't be saying this, you know. You know, all the time when you're sitting there... Did I do that? You know, when you're sitting there talking about it, is that kind of like, what's that like in respects of... You've got to be honest. You're honest, aren't you? Yes, yes. Somebody asks you something, you've got to say it, you just say it, don't you? Yeah. But when you're talking, you're just talking. You forget about it, can you? Half the things we've... I may forget about it, obviously, the viewers won't be. Maybe they will, maybe they won't be. But it goes down in the paper. Yeah. It's there permanent, isn't it? Yeah. It's there.

it's there and the things you get like I called one of my mates a rag and bone man right so I said in the book type of thing my mate was a rag and bone man the murder had there that you know call my dad a rag and bone man he's not a rag and bone man well what is he well just call him like Del Boy only fills in horses so it's like or if you put a picture in

You know, I don't like that picture. You don't realise when you're doing the book that obviously you're going to focus on your name. You could upset somebody. And obviously, you know, I think you need to get the book, don't you? I think you're in it. Just to boost the sales. We'll be buying it on to now. Have you showed your parents the book?

No, I haven't. What would be the reaction from the whole family, the family circle and everybody? Because that's the biggest thing I've found. It's just tough, isn't it? It's tough. Because we've all got families and we all don't get on, do we? It's just impossible, isn't it? You go through your whole life without falling out with people. Of course, so many times you fall out with your family. Every week, every day, every year, don't you? Sometimes you make up, sometimes you don't.

They don't like to see it. Are you critical in the book of yourself? Have you been harsh on yourself in the book? I have been. You just wish you could go back, Roy, didn't you? Maybe you don't. You've won everything, haven't you? You've done an incredible thing in your career. Maybe you've not got a lot of regrets. I don't know. But, you know, I've got an incredible amount of regrets and I just wish I could go back.

I wish I could give that young man a shake, you know what I mean, and go back and say, you know, come on. Because I could have done... Yeah, but them mistakes make you who you are now, so everyone makes mistakes. Yeah, but you can't go back, can you, and do better. I would say go easy on yourself. Yeah, don't be too hard. You use careers of being up there, you know what I mean, and I think I could have got there. Right. But...

Because I never, I wasn't, maybe not living the life I should have been living or maybe I just wasn't good enough, I don't know. But you've got regrets. No, but Duncan, honestly, I wasn't like you and that's pretty obvious. But to be fair, I think it's people like you telling an authentic story. I think so many people can relate to your story and your life and the way in which you're willing to tell it and you're not hiding behind what's happened in your life. I think we need people like you.

and football needs people like you because we're talking about a game at the moment that is lacking a little bit of personality at times, a little bit robotic and you're there basically sort of talking about the imperfection of your life. I think that's important. We'll all buy the book. We will. Send us one. At least I've sold four in Oven Arms. No, no, no, because you're going to have to send us four for a year and we'll put it on one week when it's out in May. Duncan, brilliant. Thank you so much. Thank you. Brilliant. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

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