Johnny Marr: The Smiths, Reunion Talk & Friendship With Roy! | Stick to Football EP 88
01:02:51 Share

Just before we get started, I just wanted to say a big thank you to our partner Skybet and please don't forget to subscribe if you like. I hope you enjoy this episode.

Ever feel like you're carrying something heavy and don't know where to put it down? Or wonder what on earth you're supposed to do when you just can't seem to cope? I'm Hesu Jo, a licensed therapist with years of experience providing individual and family therapy, and I've teamed up with BetterHelp to create Mind If We Talk, a podcast to demystify what therapy's really about. In each episode, you'll hear guests talk about struggles we all face, like living with grief or managing anger.

Then we break it all down with a fellow mental health professional to give you actionable tips you can apply to your own life. Follow and listen to Mind If We Talk on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, or wherever you get your podcasts. And don't forget, your happiness matters.

Summer's here and Nordstrom has everything you need for your best dressed season ever. From beach days and weddings to weekend getaways and more, discover stylish options under $100 from tons of your favorite brands like Mango, Skims, Princess Polly, and Madewell. It's easy too, with free shipping and free returns, in-store order pickup, and more. Shop today in stores online at nordstrom.com or download the Nordstrom app.

Hi guys, it's Hannah from Giggly Squad. With summer on the corner, I wanted to tell you guys how I'm staying comfy and stylish. Lululemon is my secret weapon. There are plenty of copycats out there, but nothing compares to the Lululemon fabrics and fit. I've literally had my pair of Lululemon leggings since college.

And I'm out of college. I know I don't look it, but I am. The quality is next level. I especially love the Lululemon Align Collection. It's made with this weightless, buttery, soft Nulu fabric that feels like next to nothing. It's so soft. Whether you're in Align pants, shorts, a bra, tank, skirt, a dress, you get nonstop flexibility in every direction so you can stretch the summer limits.

Align even wicks sweat. And as a sweaty girl, I love this. You know it's going to be my best friend when I play tennis this summer. Shop the Align collection online at lululemon.com or your nearest Lululemon store.

Is that bad age when you bring tea bags around? You know, you've got tea bags in your pocket. Yeah, it is. It is. Is that old age, mate? You have to drink. Hey! See you, Roy. Good to see you. You all right? Brilliant, brilliant. Good to see you. Hi, Ian. How are you doing, sir? I see you, mate. Good to see you, my friend. Nice. Nice to see you. We have said hello. You OK? Nice to see you. Good. Oh, getting fed.

You're getting fed an oar. Is that it? It looks a bit sparse, doesn't it? It does look sparse. It's not very impressive. Have you had your tea request yet? Do you want some decaf? Do you know what? I'm going to have decaf again. Decaf Earl Grey, this. Oh, I'm not sure about Earl Grey.

He's really fussy with that. I'm more fussy. No, no, no. You're really pretty fussy. Yeah, I'm the same. Can I pour that in there? What do you drink? Like tea? Usually I drink loads and loads of tea, like Roy just tons of it, but I'm sort of trying to do the decaf a little bit now...

Oh, he is as well. Is he getting you some decaf? He is. You've got one in your pocket. That's decaf. I've been dead into it. What is it like that? You want coffee? Yeah. Do you know what a place that is? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Just in Northenden? Yeah. Yeah, yeah. You know Palatine Road? I do, yeah. Yeah, just on there. It's dead expensive, don't you? No, it's not.

It's not that expensive. So we had a small, small shop and then we've moved just down the road so it's like a lot bigger now. So, yeah. You should come in for a tea. Do you like coffee or not? No, but do you do teas there? Yeah, I do coffee, yeah. Did you used to live round there? Yeah, I grew up round there. Yeah, I thought you did. From being about 10 or 11, I grew up.

Yeah. Withenshaw, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because I used to live in Sharston when I first signed for Man City. Did you? Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was nice. People were lovely. Yeah. You know where the Withenshaw Football Club is? I do, yeah. Literally opposite, like, literally opposite there. There's like a little housing estate. That's where I grew up. That's my estate, yeah. Is it? Yeah. The same one? Yeah, next to Withenshaw, yeah. Oh,

Oh, my God, yeah. That's where I grew up, yeah. Exactly the same one. So I lived there for, like, three years. You used to just get put, like, in a house and you didn't even know who you were going to be in with. When you were a player, you mean? Yeah. Well, I had the same with me. With Forrest, they put you into a house with a couple of lads who you'd never met before. I loved it, though. It was the best days. It was the best days. Like, just being, like, with a team-mate, living in, like... Oh, brilliant. It was brilliant. Brilliant. Really good.

I've yet to meet anyone who thinks that the 23-year-old guitar player in a band should be the manager. All these managers keep getting fired. It's on you. You've got to look after the band. Why were they being fired? My partner didn't get along with them. So you would fire them, would you? Yeah, but I would have to do it. Guitarists are like wingers because they make all this magic and then the guy up front runs around saying, look at me!

I said, what's your dude James Bond? I'll do it if you play guitar in it. I went, you better. So I went, yes, yes, I'll come down tomorrow. When you see all these bands that have reformed and they're making absolute tons of money. Yeah, we got made an offer really recently, in fact. But yeah, I said, no, I didn't. Wasn't enough? No, you should be the manager, James. He cashed out.

I was out last night walking, I went up for a walk last night, I don't know what happened, I had some of your music on. You know, sometimes it just hits the spot. Oh, good. Nice one, yeah. It's a lovely evening, wasn't it? Yeah, it was lovely last night, yeah. Were you out and about last night? No, were you? I went out for a run and then, no, I was writing, so I've sort of got a house to myself at the moment because Angie's in London, so I've got a place down there, so she's sort of

She knows what I'm like when I'm writing. I'm a bit nutty. Is that right? I get a bit intense, yeah. So anyway, she's off for a few days to take care of business. So I was on my own in the house. Dogs were out. And can some nights have flaws, or as other nights, it's just like... Sometimes. Yeah, obviously writing, it can just hit a brick wall. Sometimes, yeah, it's... Sometimes and often it's a craft...

You know, there's a lot of ideas about songwriting that are very, very romantic and they're nice. It sounds great. Like, I was in the supermarket and I heard this phrase and this song came to me. Well, it's like, if you're Smokey Robinson, yeah, or if you're Pharrell or if you're Stevie Wonder or like some Burt Bacharach or whatever...

But that does happen occasionally. I mean, that's one of the things that I like about running. You know, when I started running a lot, all my tracks started really getting fast, up-tempo. So thinking about stuff and the energy's up, pretty good, you know, it's interesting. But sometimes, quite often, you have to... There's a saying, I think it was Picasso, said, inspiration does exist, but it has to find you working. If you're not actually there...

Yeah. How does it come to you? Do you just, all of a sudden, you just go and say, I'm just going to go and write some songs now? How does it work? Well, for me, the music, because I've been playing from being a kid, playing guitar and stuff, that is...

I won't say easy, but I can just come up with tunes and it's quite natural. Right. Because, you know, it used to come quite easy to me. And then the words and the concepts and saying stuff, you almost have to, it almost comes, the harder you try, the harder it is and more forced. And you almost have to play a trick on your brain. It's a little bit like, they say like fishing, you have to be almost like,

You put the kettle on, sort of. You've got a song on the go, but you're trying to, like, not... Pay any attention. Yeah. Oh, I've got my rod in the water there. I'm not looking. It's just... And then... Because if you sit in absolute... You can psych yourself out a little bit. Sometimes when you're falling asleep, do you get, like... Because they say when your brain relaxes, sometimes, like, all your best lyrics and stuff. Yeah, well, I used to think that if I dreamt a song... And I did quite recently, that if a tune in...

You're in a dream and you hear a track or you hear a tune or you're playing a show in a dream or whatever and you sort of go, hang on a minute, I haven't actually written that song. So three o'clock in the morning, this happens sometimes, you get out, tiptoe into the guest room, got a little guitar there, I'm singing into my phone. No way. And for the longest time, for ages I used to think they're pure songs because they just come from the universe or whatever.

They're not always great. I did one the other day and I listened to it the next day and I'm like, what is that? And also, I wake up in the night and if I've got a melody...

If you sing it, while you're hearing it, it makes total sense to you. But the next day, you switch it on and someone's just going... It's just me going... Tomorrow. Fast bit, fast bit, fast bit. What's that? So I've got a little bit of a system now where I put a beat behind it. I'm just going and singing it. Sometimes it works so, and if it does...

You're glad of it? Do you know instantly if you've done one where you think, yeah, I like that one? You can feel it instantly. Yeah.

Yeah, when you've got one that's a bit of a banger. Yeah. Yeah, I'm worse than... Then I just run around like a lunatic. I'm like a Labrador. You know, too happy, drive everyone nuts. But, yeah, I live for that, really. It's the real buzz when you've got a new song. No, it's nothing like it. It's amazing. Great. I mean, that's what comes across listening to you there, that excitement and enthusiasm runs right through you still, doesn't it?

Well, it's funny, you know, I always assume, you know, Roger has been saying, there's a lot of, I think there's a lot of similarities between what I do and what all you guys have done. You know, loads. You know, I have plenty of theories about it. You know, you're in front of crowds and the chemistry between...

I mean, you know, Rosé had been talking about it, like, chemistry between in a team and the chemistry between musicians and a band. It's a real thing. You know, I find it really interesting when I've been asking Roy about the dressing room and all that, because, you know, there's all this stuff as a football fan that you hear, like, some people are leaders. Not everyone wants to be a leader. Some people want to be up front. Not everyone wants to be up front.

I mean, I've seen a band here, you know what I mean? What's that? What are we? Can you tell us what we are? What's that about? True roadies. What are you going to say, groupies? I'm bass, I'm bass. Well, do you know what? Funny enough, I would say that. Basic. Basic.

There are similarities, but there are similarities between... You know, I've met a few players over the years, and I'll go, oh, yeah, OK, he's a bit like... And, yeah, we'll say, in a band, say... I mean, it's a generalisation, but I've been doing that a long time. So bass players, for example...

they don't really necessarily want all the glory, you know, they want to make sure everything's steady, keep everything tidy and be at the back and be steady and they don't want, you know... It's a full back. They're on the right back, yeah. So bass player all day long. There's always a dick in a band, isn't there? LAUGHTER

The one who leaves, then comes back and leaves. Oh, yes. It's definitely the chemistry. You know, I've been in some bands... I've been in a lot of bands, and occasionally, as I've got older, I remember when I was in Modest Mouse, a band in America, and I had a moment, you know, when I was in the studio, and I looked round and I thought, the chemistry with this bunch of people, six of us, I thought, this is a... Because I've been around doing it a while now, I went...

I've been doing it since I was a kid, like you guys, you know, but I was like, yeah, this is a real special chemistry. So, oh, yeah, back to the band. Have you got a tambourine, Jamie? LAUGHTER But I say... So, guitarists, so generally, again, guitarists, driven...

attitude, you know, rhythm, so I like in bands, for me, the best sound in the world, certainly in indie rock, is two guitars together, like the Stones, like Oasis, you know, two guitars, my band has two guitars, so I reckon,

Two guitarists. Also, the guitarists... Are the most intelligent. That's a lot of good. Why are you late for rehearsals? Yeah. You know, so... Is that right? And, yeah, two midfielders, and then... You need a lead singer, though. What about... Is that an ego trip? Is that an ego thing? It's an easy... LAUGHTER

He's loving it. Of course he is. He's like, no, no. He gets paid all the money. Yeah, yeah. I'm not Mick Jagger. He goes on private jets. I was going to say, yeah, I was going to say, somebody who can bring a bit of emotion. You know, it's all right with like, you know, bringing you up there, you're bringing that emotional. Yeah. And, and,

Every band needs a drummer, Jamie. And I know being from Liverpool, you're probably into singing, right? But drummers are actually more like goalkeepers. I mean, if there was a goalie here, I'd say drummer all day long. But there are similarities there between goalies and drummers. I mean, obviously, they're at the back. But if your drummer's having an off night...

Is that right? Wow. Holds it all together. Holds it all together. Like Ringo Starr. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. But can you be in a band as well where somebody mightn't be the best at their job but they're bringing something different? Again, we go back to that word, chemistry, it's the same in a band. You don't have to have the best but... 100%. Yeah, no, absolutely. I mean, it's funny, if you take a band like The Beatles, they always come to mind because they're the yardstick everyone thinks about, you know, but...

Ringo, again, you know, is so important to the sound. If it was anyone else, it'd be a completely different band. And, you know, but pretty low-key. George Harrison, speaking as a guitar player, I mean, one of the greatest guitar players ever because, you know, you listen to some of that Beatles stuff, you can sing those tunes he plays. Paul McCartney, on the other hand, speaking as a musician, and I had the mind-blowing experience of playing with Paul McCartney when I was younger. Wow.

He's like having your 12th man. I mean, he really is like in a band, he's like having two guys. Because he's so melodic, he's so attitude-y and just, you know, so amazing musicality. Does he get the credit he deserves, Pop McKean? Does he, everyone? Do you think of him? I think in the Beatles he did, didn't he? It was a lot about him. There's so much about him. He's so famous and become, you know, such a cultural sort of person now that it's forgotten. There's quite a lot of people like this in the culture, I think, not just musicians. You've

you forget actually about what their craft is Paul McCartney reinvented a way of playing the bass I mean he's one of the most incredible you know because you think of him as a songwriter and a singer really but as a bass guitar player I mean it's next level really yeah and I think he I think that was very deliberate I think he took really great pride in being great at

I think he wanted to be the best bass player in the world. I mean, he was really into Motown. That was his thing, really. Do you watch the... I'm not sure you watched it. You've watched it. The Beatles thing sort of behind this, all those tapes that they got from years gone back. And it was about two years ago or a year or so ago that came out, where it was like behind the scenes, basically. I thought that was some of the best television I've ever seen with Paul McCartney and John Lennon.

They said they'd taken the cameras away and they were chatting about the band. Oh, yeah. They had, like, a tape there or something. You could still hear them. It was in a plant pot or something. And they were talking about George Harrison or the band breaking up and songs and that. It was unbelievable. We see... I mean, there's so much about that. It was amazing. But get back to that thing of chemistry. Chemistry, it just... I mean, I'm making assumptions here, but football teams...

You've got a shared... You're on a mission together. Yeah. You know, there is that. And some people fall out. Yeah. Some people don't get along. Some people, you kind of have to get along for a time just to...

Just to sort of crack on. I've never really believed in that. I'm out of there if it's not a good time. Do you not think sometimes you can't get on, but then when it comes to performance, you can still go out and give that really good performance? Or do you feel like you have to... I've been around bands who... You know, I know of bands who do that. I maybe overthink it and get too deep about this stuff, but I think if you're not on a mission... I mean, you don't have to be, like, chanting and high-fiving and all that, but I think if there's a bad...

I don't like a bad vibe. I like a good feeling. That's probably why I've been in so many bands. In some ways, I don't mean to be modest, I'm good in bands because I have that enthusiasm for it and I grew up with a sort of really romanticism. I mean, I also had to learn how to do it. But I believe a band is a special thing. Yeah. You know, I don't think there's anything like it. I mean, I could say from experience a band is a special thing. You know, it's something else. It's amazing. Yeah.

This episode of Stick to Football is brought to you by Skybest.

This episode is brought to you by LinkedIn Jobs. When you run a small business, whether it's a cafe, a shop or a service, you don't just clock off at 5pm. I know you're thinking about it constantly. And when it comes to hiring, you need a partner who can match that energy. That's where LinkedIn Jobs comes in. LinkedIn's new feature helps you write the perfect job description and then crucially gets it in front of the right people with deep candidate insights.

It's like having a recruitment team that never sleeps. You can post a job, share it with your network and get proper qualified candidates and you can manage it all in one place. It's simple and it gets results.

72% of small businesses using LinkedIn say they've found high quality candidates and that's right for them. You know when your club signs that one player who just fits the culture of the team, the one who lifts everyone around them, that's what LinkedIn helps you do with your business. So if you're looking to build your dream team, find out why more than 2.5 million small businesses are using LinkedIn jobs for their next great hire. Post your job for free at linkedin.com.stf. That's linkedin.com.stf.

That's linkedin.com slash stf to post your job for free. Terms and conditions apply. Hi guys, it's Hannah from Giggly Squad. With summer on the corner, I wanted to tell you guys how I'm staying comfy and stylish. Lululemon is my secret weapon. There are plenty of copycats out there, but nothing compares to the Lululemon fabrics and fit. I've literally had my pair of Lululemon leggings since college.

And I'm out of college. I know I don't look it, but I am. The quality is next level. I especially love the Lululemon Align Collection. It's made with this weightless, buttery, soft Nulu fabric that feels like next to nothing. It's so soft. Whether you're in Align pants, shorts, a bra, tank, skirt, a dress, you get nonstop flexibility in every direction so you can stretch the summer limits.

Hey, this is Josie Santee from the Every Girl podcast, and this episode is brought to you by Nordstrom.

Summer's here, and Nordstrom has everything you need for your best-dressed season ever. From beach days and weddings to weekend getaways and your everyday wardrobe, discover stylish options under $100 from tons of your favorite brands like Mango, Skims, Princess Polly, and Madewell. It's easy, too, with free shipping and free returns, in-store order pickup, and more.

Shop today in stores online at Nordstrom.com or download the Nordstrom app. You said there about the vibe, but you're out of there. Have you had an experience where you think where you have stayed and you should have left? I learned pretty early because obviously, you know, I'm known primarily for my time in the Smiths. That's how I got known. That's how people got to know me. The songs I still loved years and years later.

And I left that band at 24, you know, because the vibe, it's a long story, but the friendships fell apart and got straight into it. But it broke down, the vibe broke down and the, you know, the friendships and all of that. And I was kind of heartbroken, but I was only 24 and,

But that experience then taught me a lot being in other bands. So I was in The Pretenders and I was in The There. And so having gone through that experience, I sort of see the signs now. And I've been in a lot of bands and I'm on good terms with all those other bands. So I've always left on a high... It's always been cool. And it's never been too personal. With The Cribs, they wanted to...

They wanted to take a year off to write and I was all ready to do some stuff so it wasn't personal. I was like, listen guys, I've got 30 songs here and if someone's got 30 songs you don't get in the way. So that's how I did my solo stuff. It was purely because of that. So, you know, some people like, if you look at my career, look like a serial leaver. But I'm not actually, I'm a serial joiner. And in some ways, again, you know, like,

again like some footballers I mean Gary's unusual I'd say in that a one team player surely that's got to be quite an unusual thing in football Jamie knows it Jamie's the same yeah exactly so but in rock you two co-play these bands we've almost become used to they've become like a bit of a paradigm now or a yardstick you think

why can't you stay together forever? But most bands don't. Yeah. I'm wondering the same, John, if you think this, where does it start when things start falling apart? Would it be something like, obviously, being laid, money comes into it? Yeah, all of those things. I think, you know, like, I don't know whether it's the same in football, but egos, um,

Bad lifestyles. I mean, in my case, with the Smiths, we were all dead young as well. So I do give everyone, myself and everyone, a pass on that. The main thing with the Smiths that has become well-known is that I managed the band. That was the role part to me. Because I formed the band when I was 18, 19. That suited my personality. We weren't a bunch of mates from school like you two or like Coldplay or Radiohead.

I went to put a band together. So I went and found the band members and we learned to love each other real quick. You know, we came really tight, really quick. And, um, so a lot of stuff about the Smiths that isn't true. Like, you know, we were really, really tight and, um, but we didn't really know each other. I brought that in, but my role was, I found the manager. I went to London to get a record deal. I found the studios and that wasn't a great, uh, hardship because it suited me. And I was, I was looking after my band and,

That was my role. But five years later, when we're playing to 10,000 people and the band's saying to me, all these managers keep getting fired, it's on you, you've got to look after the band. I was 23. And I'm sitting in...

with accountants being told tax laws that I didn't understand. Still don't give a shit about now, frankly. And with lawyers... We'll cut that out. He's the same. LAUGHTER I don't mean I don't pay them. I just mean I put my head in the sand and go, right, OK. But, no, and with lawyers... So it's a big difference between...

Being 19 and trying to find rehearsal rooms and trying to find a bass player and trying to get a manager and all that, to five years later, you've had all these hits and you're on the road in America for seven weeks or whatever, and everything's falling apart and people are being fired all the time. Why were they being fired, Johnny? These managers were being fired. Why were they being fired? My partner didn't get along with them. All right, OK.

So he would fire them, would he? Yeah, but I would have to do it. Oh. So I just had enough of that. But again, that sounds like a complaint. That was my role. But at 24, I just thought... I've said this before, but I've yet to meet anyone who thinks that the 23-year-old guitar player in a band should be the manager. Right.

You just wanted to be in the background. Were you having a good time? I was having a great time until I wasn't, until I got miserable. Oh, man, honestly, my dreams came true. I was so... Did it happen quickly? I loved the band. I thought the Smiths were the best band in the world at the time. I was so proud of us. I loved the music we were making. I still do love that music.

I love the guys and I love what it was we were doing. But there's relationships break down and that's life. But was it good? Was that only meant to be a short? You were never going to be together for 20 years. I think so. Maybe that's why it was good as well. Do you know what? I can be philosophical about it 100% because, again, bring it back to a player. Some players, they want to play for Real Madrid. Of course, they want to be established at Liverpool and then they want to go to...

But the dreams are to play in different scenes with different players and with different managers. I'm the musical equivalent of that. I mean, a huge influence on me is Niall Rogers. You know, I named a son after him. And what I saw in Niall as growing up... See, I'm known for being an indie rocker, but I'd seen Niall Rogers and he's working with David Bowie and he's behind the mixing desk with his guitar on, which he literally did. So I'm known for being in an indie rock band and there's a certain thing there where...

There's a rule where it goes back to the Beatles. Four, usually, lads together in the same jacket stood up against the wall. But as a kid, I was always... I wanted to play with different people. I wanted to make records. I was obsessed with being in the studio.

And that's what I've ended up doing. So I've had the best job in the world, really. I have to talk about the Smiths a lot because it's defined me, and that's absolutely fine. If I'm going to be known for being in any band, that'll do. But I've had 40 years of the best job in the world, really. Is it hard doing the solo stuff because you're used to being part of a band? Do you miss...? Well, no, because... Well, funny enough, Jo, I've had my band for 12 years. Oh, OK. So that's the longest line-up I've had. And I was in...

Then I was in a band called the The London Band for a while, about four or five years. So I've been in some bands longer than I was ever in the Smiths. But you sort of get known for... When you first come out in the public eye, that's what you're known for, really. Yeah. I think. And that's absolutely fine, but the solo career, just me and my band has been...

It's been about 13 years now and it's been fantastic, that and doing movies and stuff. So I get to have a cake and eat in there, really. Did you do James Bond? Did you do James Bond theme tune or something? Yeah, I did the James Bond film with Billy Eilish. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Great. How was that? Oh, that was amazing. So that's all to do with Hans Zimmer, the film composer. I did the first...

The first film I did with Hans was Inception. One of the greatest. Yeah. Hans Zimmer just dropped Hans Zimmer. I know, just dropped the name. Amazing. Yeah, so I started working with Hans in 2010, did Inception, which I loved because I loved the movie. Yeah. And that was a real eye-opener, working on films. I was like, wow. And then did a couple of others. Spider-Man, worked on a few. And then, so that's how I did... So then when Hans got asked to do James Bond...

He called me up on a Saturday night. I was watching the match and he said, I have a question. Do you think I should do James Bond? And I went, right. And he went, do you think I should do it? And I'll do it if you play guitar on it. I went, you better. So I went, yes, yes. I'll come down tomorrow. So I was down there the next day and then...

And then that's a whole other thing, doing movies. Yeah. I don't write the movies, I play guitar on it. But I've been very lucky because the sort of music Hans has written usually suits the guitar because there was years and years where the guitar was a no-no in films to do within the 80s because it was so overused. Top Gun and Dom & Louise and this kind of movie was really overused.

I didn't know this until I started doing Inception. Directors were like, you can have anything in the movie, make it not a guitar. So Inception brought that back, really, which I'm very proud of. Not for myself, but for the guitar. So we did that and then everything started to sound like Inception. And that sort of set a little bit of a blueprint. But when I come to do Bond, normally I'm a really good team player on the movies. I've learnt...

it's a great thing about doing this stuff because I like being in teams and I've gone right okay well I'll do some stuff it might not work it's not all about me well when I did Bond I wasn't like that I was like I'm

I'm putting the guitar everywhere because it's down and around and you know I grew up in the 60s and 70s live and let die and all of this stuff and I was thinking the James Bond theme should be the guitar should be loud excuse me so yeah so I was a bit of an arsehole and I thought this episode of stick to football is brought to you by Sky Bet

Johnny, you go back to 23, 24, it's about the similarities between a young football player and a young musician. And you think about Trent Alexander-Ardle now, who's just left his band, the one that he's been with for 10, 12 years, and he's obviously getting quite a bit of attention. I mean, it takes big courage to do what you did, because the easiest thing, you're winning at that point, aren't you? You create the most unbelievable music. For you to walk away at that age takes a lot, it must do. And what was that moment like when you thought, I'm done? It was horrible. I mean, and it was...

It was a... Because I was so young, it was an emotional decision. But it was... I don't want to be... Well, I suppose it was so dramatic, really. When I left the Smiths, you mean? Yeah, it was massive, isn't it? Yeah, it was really massive, yeah. Do you regret anything about it? Funnily enough, I don't, no. No. No, I don't. I mean, I've... It was untenable, really. Erm...

And it wasn't a sort of impulsive decision either. I looked at it for quite a long time and I was really heartbroken about it, really. So it was certainly not a career decision because I had to really look at what's next. But that's why you're respected even more now, I think, isn't it? Maybe. Well, maybe, yeah. But...

I'd like to think, you know, I've got grown-up children that if they're in the... I'm getting very serious here, but if they're in a similar position, that they'd do the same as me. That's why I don't regret it. Yeah. You know, I look back and I... Actually, at the age of 61, I look back and I go, what? Ballsy. Ballsy, but happy. Yeah. But it was hard. It was definitely hard. When you see all these bands that have reformed and they're making absolute tonnes of money... Yeah. ..and you've...

Said no? Is that right? Yeah. Yeah, we got made enough really recently, in fact. But yeah, I said no, I didn't... Wasn't enough? LAUGHTER You should be the manager, Jason. LAUGHTER Get the drums, Johnny. LAUGHTER

Yeah. Just because you want to be able to look yourself in the mirror and just... Is that just because of who you are and your morals and your principles? It's not quite that principled. There's a little bit of that. But I'm not an idiot. I just think the vibe's not right. Yeah. Bad vibe. So... There's not many people who go on just on vibes. People say, yeah, but it's just a vibe. Sometimes you go on vibes. Yeah. Yeah.

No, it was, you know, it was a sort of, you know, eye-watering amount of money. But also, I really like what I'm doing now, which makes it a lot easier. You know, I really like where I'm at. I mean, I still have to work, as in my craft, you know. My thing is...

I still want to write the best song I've ever written. That's the thing. Be a better performer, all of this stuff. That is the difference between what I do and what you guys have done. You can keep going, really, within reason. I know there's the Stones and people like that, but...

You can still be a songwriter when you're in your 60s, 70s, and as long as you're able to physically do it... Does that still drive you, just what you said there? It probably takes... Obviously, we've stopped playing, but that thing when I was playing was...

Whatever I'd done was not enough. There's always somebody who's done more than you or a team and there's always something that's goal or drive to do more. You're saying that at your age now in terms of I still want to write the best song I've ever written. Do you still think that best song is still there? That's still what your game is for? There might be a day when I go, it's not. And I'll get another dog. LAUGHTER And, you know, but...

It's funny, another thing as well that I think we have in common, and I know it's particularly you with stats, Jamie, but being an expert, I think it really counts for something. I think it makes you feel good. And if you started from being 10 or 11, and not just stats, but, you know, so David Beckham comes to mind. I've met him a couple of times, but the stories are like when he came to United, he knew about the history of United.

And famously, Bob Marley, when he first went in the studio, he was 15, 16, this attitudely little guy. He knew how the studio worked because he'd been listening to Sam Cooke, the Coasters, the Drifters. He knew all about it. And he was a bit of a pain in the ass because he was like, no, no, those vocals aren't loud enough. And he knew how to run a band. And I was like that at 9, 10, pop music, especially if it had a guitar on.

Everything about it, I was like... So it was like... Yeah, it's a passion and I wanted to be a performer. But to get back to the point, I think it's good being an expert and doing what you guys do in public. I was a football fan. You're watching it and you're going, oh, right, OK, I never thought of that before. And all these little details. So I think there's something satisfying about using your expertise. Yeah.

And going forward, you know... So at nine and ten, you were a student. You were, like, wanting to learn, even at that age. Oh, I learned loads of stuff there. I'd listened to... Back then, it was 45s. That's why I have this 45 tattoo. 45 is... So they're the seven-inch singles. And I learned to play from that and slowing them down on the record deck and, like, playing these bits back and forward. But I would do stuff like... If a record faded out too quickly,

Fade out's wrong. Or if the vocal came in too late or too early. So I was starting... I just had this natural ability to sort of listen to arrangements and I then started to notice in the second verse... I don't know whether this is interesting, but in the second verse, the guitar light, I was like, what's that? Oh, it's doubled with an organ. Oh, that's good. So when I started making records with the Smiths, that's why there's loads of layers on it. Because I'd start...

And I wasn't even aware I was doing that. It was just something I twigged from being 10 or 11 about arrangements and certainly where guitars were concerned. So that's held me in good stead. That's why most of the records I've been involved with, I've produced myself, not because I want to be the big I am, but just because I'm sort of naturally good at it. But it gets back to being an expert.

Do you think up-and-coming artists do that now? Because sometimes we speak about footballers coming through and we'll probably think they don't watch as much football and don't become a student of the game. Do you think that's changed over the years? Well, yes and no, because I think that has changed. But because the technology is available now, so that's a good thing and a bad thing. The good thing about it is,

If I'd have had that when I was 13, 14, 15, I would have been practising on a laptop and putting beats together and all of that. So I do hear there are musicians out there now who are just technically absolutely amazing. Yeah. And they almost take it for granted that they have this tool there that they can make records on. But then the downside of that is going in a recording studio, for me, was...

It was like going into a temple. I met Quincy Jones once, right? In fact, I met him twice on both occasions. He told me exactly the same thing. So either he didn't remember me or it's a line. But no, he said, let me give you some advice. Whenever you go in the studio, walk in there like it's the first time you've ever been in there. And I know what he means by that. He's like, don't get...

Don't get lethargic. Don't take it for granted. So sometimes the technology, and I'm guilty of this myself, I love guitar technology, can almost make things too easy, really. So I think times change, don't they? The music reflects the culture. Again, bring it back to football. When I first started going to Seaman City in the 70s,

You know, the other... Mostly lads, but there's girls there too. But the rest of the crowd, these older people, like I'm looking at, these older lads in there. It reflected the culture in a way. I don't know whether that does now so much, but it was working-class people, entertainment, everyone dressed up. I mean, the United fans were next level, you know? I mean, in the 70s, the thing with United fans, they were like...

they all looked like Davey Bowie Ziggy Stardust but they were proper bruisers Chelsea fans remember dressed like Clockwork Orange and they had the bowler hats and stuff like that but I'd be in I'd see these United fans because I was a City fan as well I was terrified but I'd see them in Piccadilly Gardens in town on a Saturday morning and I'd be clocking because I was always interested in clothes and all of that and I'd see these lads with red hair no eyebrows

And they want to beat you up. And they support United. It was terrifying. But that terrorist culture, you know, there's books about it. The way terrorist culture reflects pop culture, there's that real crossover. Football fans love music and footballers love music. Musicians, loads of them have always wanted to be footballers.

And, yeah, you have that sort of cross-pollination. It's part of the culture. It's a really fantastic thing. So I wonder if... I mean, I might be getting a bit deep about it, but I do wonder... I suppose it is like... Get back to your thing, Jill. Like, times just change, so the culture...

The terraces probably do reflect the culture. You played football when you were younger, yeah? You had to go off it, yeah? Yeah, yeah. I mean, like a lot of lads my age, it was football and music, football and music. Music always shaded it, but I loved playing football, you know, played for City Juniors for a bit, played for Manchester Boys and all of that. What position was it, a winger? What did you look like? Yeah, right wing, yeah. But I have a theory about wingers and centre forwards, Ian, I don't know if she'll tell you. LAUGHTER

Well, I had this theory that guitarists are like wingers because they make all this magic and then the guy up front runs around and says, look at me. Look what I did. I'm not going to deny that. But we need the guy up front. But the thing I learned, it was amazing when I was playing like 15, 16.

It was a real... Because the lads I played with, somebody went on to... One guy ended up playing for QPR, another guy Wimbledon, someone played for Bolton and stuff. These lads I was playing with, I suddenly saw the dedication, first hand, that these lads I was playing with had. At 15, it suddenly switched. Tackles got a bit more serious. Honestly, even in the dressing room beforehand,

I was still like, hey, did you see Top of the Pops last night? I've got a bit of eyeliner on, no shit, right? From my rehearsal the night before. No wonder I was getting kicked all the time. And then, you know, one of the Rolling Stones, like a football kit, it was ridiculous. But these lads I was playing with, I clocked, oh, OK. And then I realised that my mindset was the same as that, but mine was about music.

And what I saw with my mates, or the lads I was playing with, I talked to Jack Grealish about this a couple of years ago when we did this thing for a magazine, this idea of like, you've all had it, where this thing of like, at 14, 15, your mates think you're, I've heard you talk about it, Gary, sacrifice. The sacrifice you make at 14, 15, you know, when your mates are in the pub or doing teenage stuff.

New Year's Eve parties. I went to a recording studio because I knew it would be the only time I'd be able to get it for free on New Year's Eve. No one's going to be there. But all my mates were having a jolly up. I was 17 then. But I didn't think twice about that. And I think about when I was playing football, it was Huff End in Manchester and at Platt Lane it was there for City Juniors.

and it'd be like a tuesday night in november i mean i know you guys all know but pouring down with rain and about 15 i started thinking about my guitar a bit and all of those lads were like really loving it um but what i was doing though was i'd be stood literally did happen i've stood at the bus stop on the wednesday night in the rain

going to a really dodgy part of Manchester at 15 to go and rehearse with this band of adults. I was in a band with grown-ups. They were reprobates looking back at it now, and I loved it. So while my mates were going in the pub and doing whatever teenage... I mean, I was a regular teenage kid, I guess, but that side of it, which I guess you can look back and say in dedication...

Well, you know what I'm talking about. It can look like a sacrifice, but if you love it... Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And you also want to be great, don't you? That was my thing. Of course, there's all that stuff about being famous and wealthy and all that. I'd be lying if I didn't say that wasn't a thing. But I wanted to be as good as my heroes, really, and I still do. You met your wife when you were 15 as well, didn't you? Yeah, that was another distraction, I think. But we're still together now, so it's the right choice. That's incredible. Yeah, so 15, and she was 14, and...

Yeah, I mean, obviously it's been the most important thing in my life, really, because all the way through teenage years and through the Smiths and the Smiths' break-up and all the bands... How did that stay stable at home throughout that whole period? I'm not an idiot. I know when I'm onto a good thing. Well, the thing is, I think... Well, Angie was part of the Smiths, really. Anyone in the band would tell you that. It was the four guys and Angie. So it's quite easy to think...

I had this girlfriend or wife and then I go off to fight the Indy Wars and she's in the kitchen going, no, she came with me. And up until we had the children in my 30s, Angie was there, you know. And then when the kids got a little older, then she's with me there. So...

We just do everything together, really. I mean, there was a period, obviously, when the kids would go out to school and everything, and particularly when I moved to Portland for a bit, then we didn't see each other quite as much. But we've been together since being kids, so, you know, I don't know any different. What would you have been if you hadn't have been a cricketer? Dead. LAUGHTER

Hello and welcome to the Overlap Stick to Cricket brought to you by Betfair. I'll be joined by Alistair Cook, Sir Alistair Cook, David Lloyd and Phil Tufnall. The bloke's got to be, hey mate, has anyone ever told you you look like an old Phil Tufnall? LAUGHTER

We'll bring you analysis, reaction and interviews in what's going to be a huge year for cricket. Do you see Oli Pope strolling out at number three? Tough as it's more likely to get through his first 20 ball. I think that's a stat. No, that isn't a stat. Two players, Joe Root, Virat Kohli. If he were playing outside our house, I'd shut the curtains. This kid has got something. Absolutely the greatest bowler of all time. Would you agree with that? No. No? No.

There'll be stories from our playing days, we'll be answering all your questions and we'll be having lots of fun along the way. Strawberries have been up. Where's me coffee gone? No disrespect to Bashir. Like, Warren was one of the best ever. Bashir's not. You dropped Joe Roof. I did drop Joe Roof. Who did you put in instead of him, mate? Gary Ballant. I'm going to say there are a few holes in this Indian batting line-up. There are a few holes in the bowling line-up.

What's the score going to be? Do you get recognised down the abattoir? Do you know what, right? Do you know what? Does the sheep know who you are? Stick to cricket, brought to you by Betfair. That was just a warm-up. That's not been recorded. I hope they are. See, you can have a croissant now.

Hi guys, it's Hannah from Giggly Squad. With summer on the corner, I wanted to tell you guys how I'm staying comfy and stylish. Lululemon is my secret weapon. There are plenty of copycats out there, but nothing compares to the Lululemon fabrics and fit. I've literally had my pair of Lululemon leggings since college.

And I'm out of college. I know I don't look it, but I am. The quality is next level. I especially love the Lululemon Align Collection. It's made with this weightless, buttery, soft Nulu fabric that feels like next to nothing. It's so soft. Whether you're in Align pants, shorts, a bra, tank, skirt, a dress, you get nonstop flexibility in every direction so you can stretch the summer limits.

Align even wicks sweat. And as a sweaty girl, I love this. You know it's going to be my best friend when I play tennis this summer. Shop the Align collection online at lululemon.com or your nearest Lululemon store.

Ever feel like you're carrying something heavy and don't know where to put it down? Or wonder what on earth you're supposed to do when you just can't seem to cope? I'm Hesu Jo, a licensed therapist with years of experience providing individual and family therapy, and I've teamed up with BetterHelp to create Mind If We Talk, a podcast to demystify what therapy's really about. In each episode, you'll hear guests talk about struggles we all face, like living with grief or managing anger.

Then we break it all down with a fellow mental health professional to give you actionable tips you can apply to your own life. Follow and listen to Mind If We Talk on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, or wherever you get your podcasts. And don't forget, your happiness matters.

Did you ever get dragged into drinking the drugs you hear at rock bands? You were happy to be in the middle of that? I wouldn't say I got dragged into it, I ran headfirst into it. LAUGHTER Oh, mate, get behind me, Roy. I know how it feels, Johnny, I know. He tried to give you an out there. Yeah, I know. I'm trying to help you out there. I know. Was it unavoidable? Well, I wanted to do it because, again...

It might be something to do with the culture and the way I grew up and the times were different, 16, 17, but I had a to-do list. It was like, OK, learn how to play the guitar, form a really great band, wear sunglasses indoors at all times. LAUGHTER That was you to do. Take it.

Take drugs, that sounds fun. Tick. Live a life of a rock star, tick. Because Smith's got successful, I was 19. And crucially, we didn't have a manager, as I mentioned before. So it was quite a lawless, unsteady enemy. It went into the music and it made us what we are. I do have to say that. But there was no guiding adult around, right? So I'm 19, off the leash, you know, in my favourite band.

And that list was like, yeah, crash a BMW, tick, which was more serious than I realised. So all of those things on that list I got to do. And then with drinking drugs got to a point where it just was not a good look anymore and it was self-defeating. So in my late 30s, I just...

I'm a real all or nothing person. I just packed it in. But I didn't just say, I'll knock that on the head or whatever. I started running marathons and I had to... I always say, like, I gave myself the gift of, like, a really full-on kind of healthy lifestyle. I didn't go, oh, you know... Listen, my band have a few beers and...

My family, you know, I can be around people. I just don't drink. Alcohol's not my thing. It's been like that way for years. People ask me about it quite a lot in the media and everything, about my lifestyle. But I just saw it as being... I didn't have a drink of drugs. Hell, I had a drink of drugs, fantastic time. But when it stopped being fantastic and being counterproductive... What did that look like?

Er... It wasn't pretty, Gary. Like, was there a moment, like, did something happen or, like, at what moment did you want to stop? Quite a few things happened. Well... Did it affect your performance on stage? Did it get to that level? Well, actually, at that point in the late 90s, I was in the studio, I was obsessed with being in the studio. I wasn't really touring that much. Yeah.

So I went for a period when I was in a band called Electronic with Bernard from New Order and Pet Shop Boys where it was studio, studio, studio. And I was playing on loads of people's records and I loved that. So I wasn't touring so much and I got to see my children grow up and go to school and all that and I was in the studio all the time like a studio rat. And that lifestyle became really quite unhealthy and pretty toxic and...

I started to really... I thought, this is getting a little bit out of hand here. I mean, my hangovers, you could see them. You could take a picture of them. And then I had a couple of pals around me who were a little bit older and one had been in the programme, which I never did, and another one was just, like, anti-drink. And they were both into running. Now, a weird thing as well, it was a little bit earlier I'd met, it's a weird story, but...

I was making a film with her there in New York and we were in this pretty, really edgy part of town. And there was this hip-hop band, Naughty by Nature, and we borrowed their crew to look after us. And I was around these guys and I really was into this early night, I was super into hip-hop. And I was like, what's with this sort of... You guys, whenever I see the videos, you're always doing press-ups and you're always like... And these two guys, he said to me, he laid out this sort of super philosophy about strength and...

having to be on the ball and all that. And I just thought, God, that's so far away from the old rock and roll cliché. And just something in me, it hit me at the right time in my life. I thought, God, that sounds really, really happening, really progressive. The point I'm making is my lifestyle choices weren't about, oh, you know, I've got this terrible trauma, I must give it up. I actually went, that looks like I can put my foot on the gas.

give me more energy, like progressive. So then for ages, I just thought the lifestyle I then chose, like being, I mean, I did go a bit bananas on the run. I was a bit like Forrest Gump with a guitar. And it's good for, you know, it was good for my sense of self and all that. It was a great time in my life. And so then fitness, everything in my life just went. Yeah. And I'm convinced it was to do with meditation, yoga,

Giving up the booze. I mean, hey, look, you know, life's life and stuff happens to you and I'm not saying wake up in the morning like, morning, by any means, you know. I've still got a lot of stuff going on there, like all of us, but I can really recommend it. You do look great, though. How old are you, did you say? 78. You look fantastic. This episode of Stick to Football is brought to you by Skybest.

I've got this vision you're one of the most iconic guitarists of all time of you just always having a guitar next to you in the house is that right or do you just go for days without picking it up? No no no You pick up every day? Oh yeah yeah yeah I mean before I came out here you know like it's that classic thing if you're like waiting for a car to pick you up or whatever you just pick it up yeah they're everywhere you know I mean very very blessed that they're everywhere but they've always been you know like my mum and dad's there's always crappy little guitars because you know they always kept my guitars How many have you got?

I've got about 130 odd I put a book out I know you're into your guitars aren't you I put a book out a couple of years ago that I was really proud of because it just did really well and I was trying to do it wasn't really about oh look at my guitar collection I just wanted to do a beautiful book of beautiful objects and we did that

But, yeah, so, no, they're always around. And I like also, if I get a bit... If I'm feeling like I'm getting out of practice, and this is something that I've really leaned into as I've got older, I like practising. Yeah. You're learning new things all the time. Or you just think... No, you're just different variations of what you've done. I do learn... Yeah, I do learn things, but I've got to say, I think... Again, this might be a stretch, but I think this is about... You guys might know this. I think the stuff that you learn...

Might be skills, might be... I mean, I think mentality is a different thing. That comes with experience. But I think stuff that you learn that you're good at when you're 14, 15, that developmental stage, they're like your go-tos. That's what you're good at, you know. So... But I do... I do, like, try and learn new stuff. But I think for what I do, I think I know what I do now, really. I think for the longest time, I was...

Trying to not be bagged and like in electronic I was playing loads of keyboards and now I know what I do. You said before Paul McCartney was one of the greatest bass players of all time, which to be fair probably most people would never have thought that thinking of Paul McCartney did think of the songwriting and the singing. Who are, in your opinion, the three greatest guitarists of all time that you've seen that have just completely elevated skill set?

I mean, you've got to say Jimi Hendrix completely, absolutely reinvented electric guitar. It's not overly used, but he is iconic in the music he made. But in my life, so I started off, my hero was Mark Bolan from T-Rex when I was a kid. I was all about T-Rex because he was little. All my football heroes were always little as well, funny enough. Even I was a City fan. If you grew up in Manchester...

George Best no one didn't like George Best I mean look at the guy you know what I mean but and Bruce Lee so 70s kid right but Mark Bolan when I was like 10 or 11 really wanted to do that and then there was an Irish guy Rory Gallagher who I used to follow around go to all his shows I got to know before he passed away which was a real honour he was a beautiful guy Rory and

And then, I mean, you know, again, it's a bit like you guys talking about footballers. Prince? Yeah, I mean, next level. Absolutely. Well, actually, funny enough with Prince, Wendy Melvoin, who played in his band, Wendy and Lisa, she's one of the greatest guitar players I've ever come across. And I played with Wendy. She's really brilliant. It's a good point. Yeah, Wendy's amazing.

And I'd say, but Nile Rodgers comes back, you know, Nile was a big, big influence on me. People would never believe that in the Smiths' days, and I used to say it even back then, because you hear the Smiths and, like, these indie rock guys. What he was doing on the left hand, these beautiful chord changes, you know, I want your love, or, like, you know, Lost in Music, We Are Family, all those beautiful things like that. So...

I mean, there's a whole long, long, long list, but I'd say Rory and Mark Bolan and Nile Rodgers. There's a folk guitar player called Bert Jancz who was a huge influence on me. And then everybody then, John McGee, Susie and the Banshees. Yeah, I'm a real student of it. I can go on just like you guys, if I asked you about Iniesta or I asked you about which Ronaldo or... It's an amazing... Yeah.

Subjects, you know. And Roy, you meet him on your walks, on your dog walks. Are you walking your dog or are you running? Sometimes we walk in the dogs. Roy be out with the dogs. But often I'm running out when we bump into each other because we live near each other. And it's a good excuse for me to stop. That's the only reason. You're having a breather. And I was like, oh, no, don't I stop you because I'm running? And no, no. And we have a bit of a chat about...

I was interested in the dressing room. And as I said earlier, the dynamic of the chemistry between... Just what happens with the life of football, really. Bit of a chat about Ireland, cos I'm from an Irish family, and talk about coke and stuff like that. Tea? Tea? We're really rock and roll. Did you go to the FA Cup final or not? Oh, God. When was that? Oh, but that hasn't happened. No, no, I didn't, cos...

I'm trying to be disciplined and not be too distracted and get on with writing some new songs. Yeah. Do you get a go at many of the games this season? Yeah. What have you got? Oh, man. Well, like everybody, it's slightly bizarre what's happened. There's all these different theories on the podcast and different fans will say this, that and the other. I've got to say, you know, like...

With injuries, I mean, I know every fan of every Premier League side can go, I don't play the injuries card, but... That's what these lot say to me if I mention Arsenal. So I'm glad you're mentioning it, John. So go on, you go for it. But if you're going to talk about injuries, I mean, Rodri Erling Haaland and Kevin De Bruyne are three pretty important players for City. And...

So, I mean, that's played into it. I don't think it's just that by any means, because if you look at what's happened to Phil, as a City fan, if you did ask me at any time over the last few years, if the wheels fall off, what's OK? And you go, well, Phil, because he's young, he's not burnt out, he's so talented and all of that. But you sort of go, well, even Phil's having a tough time. Noel, who...

I'm sure you know what I mean by Noel, right? He said something interesting to me when we went through that, you know, the start of that spell. He said, Lord, have you ever been on a tour where you've been touring for like 18 months and you've got to, you know you're going home and you love playing and all that, but you know you're going home and then right at the end of it, someone says to you, five weeks in South America and you've just got to go again. Oh, Jesus. Because I often think, I've asked Roy about this as well, like,

I always think like, look, even if you're playing in the playground or as soon as you cross that white line or in training, as soon as you put your boots on, you just want to win. I did wonder about that when I heard like ex-footballers... Just burn out over a few years. I did go, is that a thing in football? But I'm sure it must just be the same. Yeah. When Noel said that, I thought, right, because this group of players, I don't have to tell you guys, you'll know about it, but this group of players, the intensity and the manager's so intense...

And just whether they've just kind of gone, I haven't got it in me, you know. They've hit a wall, haven't they? I mean, what would you say about it? I think they've hit a wall. I'm surprised it didn't happen after the treble. I thought you'd see a big drop-off last year. So to do what they did last year, Arsenal, what did Arsenal get to? 89 points last year. I think they've just hit a wall. I think physically, just maybe gone a little bit older together as well. Yeah. They probably needed a bit of... Those players you just mentioned, the injuries they picked up,

they probably needed help and they're the ones who've helped other people in the past. And you say maybe they're a little bit, and then the players they brought in probably just weren't quite the right players. And it's like, you're asking those same players again, as you've just said, you've got to go again. They're probably just looking for something. We need a little bit of energy, a bit of sort of... Yeah. Yeah, well, they're up and go. Well, but really, because of what you're saying there, it's left then, you're looking at,

the younger players coming through I know we've got these two I just heard about these two under 23 captain of Argentina captain of Brazil they've just come to see right I mean that sounds like on paper that sounds good but then you're looking at

It's a funny thing for City fans. As a City fan, I haven't had to think about recruitment for 12 years. I see other clubs and they go, we need new players. That's a new thing to think as a City fan because we've been so spoiled like that because the recruitment's always, they seem to have always got it almost spot on. And then I'm looking at Mahmoud Shubu. I think he's great. But also Kuzanov who's come in, for some reason he's not playing.

and then Gonzalez he looks like a good player I know he's like there for Rodri I thought it was strange he was on the bench in the cup final yeah you know you can see he just bought him in January I thought that when I saw that team basically picked yeah it was odd and then also Savinho I think Savinho is a real confidence player I think maybe it's one of those things I don't want to be you know generalised but he's a Brazilian winger and I think

And if it's not going good for him in a game, I think he runs out of options a little bit. I think he's got to get the first 15, 20 minutes where he's like dazzling and he's thinking, right, I've got this left back. And then he's having a great game. But there was something I noticed that I can't believe, you know, like hadn't occurred to me before, but I was watching, I think it was a home game this season. And I think these players I mentioned, Nico O'Reilly is obviously brilliant, but I've watched you guys and talk about how,

But people arriving in the Premier League and the intensity of the Premier League and over the years have gone, is it...

really, is the Premier League, is it that physical? Are they getting kicked? Because it doesn't look like everyone's getting kicked. But I realise what it is now when I saw at close quarters, I saw Mamouch and a couple of other players. They got to 72 minutes and it was like, because they're so brilliant and he loves playing. And on a couple of games, it was like suddenly, just mentally, didn't have it. And all the new players, all, like, you watch through, 72 minutes, all of a sudden,

they're all done and I thought oh that must be what they mean about the Premier League mentally if you drop it for 90 odd minutes so as a football fan that was dead interesting to me that's why I think now I can see oh it's not really about the physicality and being you know tackles and all of that it's about that being switched on for 90 odd minutes and I think the new players will benefit from a season of that so what's next for you?

You've just brought out a double live album, have you? Yeah. Yeah. There's a live album that's just come out and then new stuff, Gary, just working on new stuff, hopefully. Maybe some more collaborations. I've collaborated for quite a long time, really. Well, saying that, I've just done a single with Franz Ferdinand, which I'm really excited about because I love Franz. And then I've done a project that I'm not supposed to talk about because it's not my band, but... It's not Oasis, but...

Yeah, just new stuff. Maybe some more movie stuff with Hans. I've kind of got plenty to be getting along with, really, with my next album and touring, I think. Oh, I've got a gig with Kraftwerk in July, and a tour in America at the end of the year. You've got a bit going on. Quite busy. Are you ever going to stop? I'm depressed now. I'm tired out. Are you ever going to stop? I keep telling myself to chill out. You'll never stop. Yeah.

I can't really imagine it, no. I'm not sort of manic about it. I think they're romantic in me, right? Sort of the 12-year-old goes, I'm going to do it till I die, you know? Yeah. But I see Roy get out with the dogs and he looks like he's got a pretty good life. I think that would... I'd go and see Roy. I want that life. It does, yeah. And, you know, still...

I can't imagine a time when I wouldn't do music because it's what I do, you know. And as I say, it is different for... That's where there's similarities, that physicality.

you're picking what you want to do aren't you you're not being forced into anything are you no well that's cool isn't it you've got three different choices apart from Lizzie Forster Roy Forster invited me and I jumped at the chance yeah no that is an amazingly privileged like yourself you know like a really privileged position to be in when I do do it I put myself like it's a

you know, like it's a Champions League campaign doing the next record. I'm not, I'm just not mellow about it. It's like, you know, full on, which I like, the challenge and everything. But yeah, I feel very, very super privileged. Yeah, where I'm at now is, yeah, it feels good, yeah.

That was one of the most fascinating hours that we've had in the last two years. Honestly, it was. Thank you, Jon. Johnny, last thing. Andrew, who works for Salford City, is a huge fan

Oh yeah. And he does, he did a Salford Lads Club campaign. Come here Andrew. Come here Andrew. Oh yeah. Where's Andrew? Come here Andrew. Lads Club yeah. So he did a big Salford Lads Club thing with Salford City. Come here. He's a big fan. Nice to meet you. And I said I'd bring you in. I've tried to track you down a jacket and it's getting delivered so I'll get you a Salford Lads Club jacket. Red is it? No it's black. Oh.

Slimming. Well done there, mate. How's that going? No, it's great, but as you'll know, in terms of Salford as an area, it's like kind of that, there are no socialist principles of dreams and aspirations and everyone's as valuable as the next person, so you've got enterprise, but you've also got sport, art and culture.

and so we're really proud of what Salford's kind of done, but places like Salford Lads Club are so important to me. Oh, yeah. So when we heard that, you know, obviously Salford Lads Club was in a bit of trouble financially and stuff like that, we thought, as a club, we had the responsibility. Do you know what's amazing? All over the world I go, and someone, if they pull out the phone, they're either going to show me a tattoo or a terrible picture of me when I was, like, 19. But...

There'll be folks that say, I went to Manchester, and it'll be someone from America or wherever, or Belgium or whatever, and they'll be stood in front of Salford Lads Club. Yeah, that's right. You know, it's become... It's good, isn't it? And I can't take credit for that. That was to do with Morrissey, but I'm very proud of that, obviously. We've got, like, a new generation of fans at Salford that are, like, they're all starting now, coming in in, like, Stone Roses jackets and stuff like that. It's really interesting, because we're blessed at Salford, like, a community club. These 15-year-olds to 25-year-old kids that are, like, just, like... A lad came up to me and goes,

oh have you heard of this and he showed me a Stone Rosie album recently I was like yeah it's alright but it's really interesting that these lads are now getting into bands and stuff because for about the last 10 years I think it's a random fact only two bands have had a number one single in the last 10 years and one of them was the Beatles and so I think there was a lot of individualism same with football in terms of the last 10 years people like kind of most personal brands but

all these kids now are picking up guitars so it must be really exciting that we're going to see the future of music because of you Johnny because of you John you've done that John it goes in waves though doesn't it I think football's the same really all these different trends but as I say it does reflect the culture I think it always has because it's essentially it started off as a working class thing really working class entertainment don't get too political about it but and as the culture changes the bands change it's kind of the way it's supposed to be really I guess isn't it

Thanks for being here. Fantastic. Real pleasure, mate. Such a fan of your boy, mate. Thank you so much. Thank God for Sean. You know, the thing is, he was devastated. He had to leave to go to Chelsea. He didn't want to leave. Remember, at the time, there was a lot of pressure. He never wanted to leave. Remember, the one when he went down the right there. When I used to be a winger, I was like, I'm a winger.

Johnny, sorry. Look at you cozying up to him because he called you the lead singer. We're talking about my Premier League winning son, Sean. Talk about a certain goal, Gary. I wonder what he scored in the derby, Sean. Let's go. Brilliant. Cheers, John. Hey, this is Josie Santee from the Every Girl podcast and this episode is brought to you by Nordstrom.

Summer's here, and Nordstrom has everything you need for your best-dressed season ever. From beach days and weddings to weekend getaways and your everyday wardrobe, discover stylish options under $100 from tons of your favorite brands like Mango, Skims, Princess Polly, and Madewell. It's easy, too, with free shipping and free returns, in-store order pickup, and more.

Shop today in stores online at Nordstrom.com or download the Nordstrom app. As the main character of your life, you know how important it is to make the right choices for you and how sweet it is to feel good about your decisions. With the State Farm Personal Price Plan, you have options to help create an affordable price for you so you can continue living your best life.

Talk to a State Farm agent today to learn how you can choose to bundle and save with a personal price plan. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. Prices are based on rating plans that vary by state. Coverage options are selected by the customer. Availability, amount of discounts and savings, and eligibility vary by state.

Hi guys, it's Hannah from Gigli Squad. With summer on the corner, I wanted to tell you guys how I'm staying comfy and stylish. Lululemon is my secret weapon. There are plenty of copycats out there, but nothing compares to the Lululemon fabrics and fit. I've literally had my pair of Lululemon leggings since college.

And I'm out of college. I know I don't look it, but I am. The quality is next level. I especially love the Lululemon Align Collection. It's made with this weightless, buttery, soft Nulu fabric that feels like next to nothing. It's so soft. Whether you're in Align pants, shorts, a bra, tank, skirt, a dress, you get nonstop flexibility in every direction so you can stretch the summer limits.

Align even wicks sweat. And as a sweaty girl, I love this. You know it's going to be my best friend when I play tennis this summer. Shop the Align collection online at lululemon.com or your nearest Lululemon store. Thanks for listening and thanks to our partner Skybet. If you want more, please subscribe and you won't miss an episode.