Rice’s Rise & Kevin De Bruyne vs Salah | Stick to Football 78
01:24:44 Share

Just before we get started, I just wanted to say a big thank you to our partner Skybet and please don't forget to subscribe if you like. I hope you enjoy this episode.

Now at Verizon, we have some big news for your peace of mind. For all our customers, existing and new, we're locking in low prices for three years guaranteed on MyPlan and MyHome. That's future you peace of mind. And everyone can save on a brand new phone on MyPlan when you trade in any phone from one of our top brands. That's new phone peace of mind.

Because at Verizon, whether you're already a customer or you're just joining us, we got you. Visit Verizon today. Price guarantee applies to then current base monthly rate. Additional terms and conditions apply for all offers.

To remind you that 60% of sales on Amazon come from independent sellers, here's Tracy from Lilies of Charleston. Hi, y'all. We make barbecue sauce, hot sauce, and specialty popcorn. They get help from Amazon to grow their small business faster. They handle all our shipping and logistics, which is a big help. All on it up. Have a great day, Tracy. Hot stuff, Tracy. Ooh, honey. Shop small business on Amazon.

Support for this podcast and the following message is brought to you by E-Trade from Morgan Stanley. With E-Trade, you can dive into the market with easy-to-use tools, $0 commissions, and a wide range of investments. And now there's even more to love. Get access to industry-leading research and insights from Morgan Stanley to help guide your decisions. Open an account and get up to $1,000 or more with a qualifying deposit.

Get started today at E-Trade.com. Terms and other fees apply. Investing involves risks. Morgan Stanley Smith Barney LLC member SIPC. E-Trade is a business of Morgan Stanley. Christopher! How you doing? How are you, brother? Good to see you, righty. You okay? Yeah, I'm really good, you? Brilliant. Good to see you. You all right? Yeah, I'm very well, thank you. Good to see you, Chris. How's it going? Doing okay. Yourself? I'm still all right now. It's a good night. I've had a good night. Tell you what, I thought it was a great game. It was a great game. It was a great game. Yeah.

It was a great game. I'm liking your gear. You think? I'm liking it. I'm good, man. You got it right. What you do is you go sides down. You're all right. Nice to see you. You're in good shape, aren't you? I don't know about that. I'm breathing. You are. Stop lying. You look gorgeous. Thank you. So he works at Stockley Park. Come in, Chris. Come in. Yeah, this is your seat. Sit down here.

You never sent me off, did you? I just need to get... No. I didn't send Gary off either. No, no, no. I'm going to show you something now. Don't, Gaz. What, you should have sent him off? It will haunt me. It's my last ever game for United. It will haunt me forever. He's the reason I... It's not the West Brom one, was it? West Brom? Yes. Is it West Brom? Oh, God. Sorry. Have a look. Don't, Gaz. Don't embarrass me.

Oh, my God. That's a penalty. Yeah, it's a penalty and a red card. It should be. Jeez, look at Chris. You looked after him. You looked after him. You look older there. You look like Robin Hood. I was old that day. Let me see you. You look like Robin Hood. Let's have a look. Oh.

Penalty. Ridiculous challenge. Do you know what's amazing? The players running away from you were slow players. Do you know what I mean? But why do you think I retired? I retired the next day. Can you answer me a question, honestly? Did you want to come out for the second half? Is that true, that? Yeah, I didn't want to come out. Because I was walking off for half-time and Di Matteo was in the tunnel, the manager, and he was looking at me. And I thought, so much wrong. Come out for the second half. You know, the camera's on you, you think. Yeah, on me.

Watch her touch, Roy. Look. It was a great goal. Bang, bang. Amazing. It was a great goal. Did you see it, girl? Michelle Edgerman. Look at that. Bang, bang. Yeah, it was a great goal. Watch it again. Get your glasses on. It was literally our first two touches as well. Watch her first two touches. Just come on. First two touches. Oh, nice.

How are you, Ron? I'm good, yeah. That's probably got her in the side, hopefully. Was there a goal last year like that where someone... At Everton. Who scored a goal at Everton where they controlled it with their knee and then hit it? Who scored a goal last year at Everton where they controlled it with their knee and then hit it? Erm... Come on, Anna Racks. No.

Gundogan against Everton. Was it Gundogan? The year before, it was two years ago. I can't remember what the goal was. Show us the goal, girl. Where's James? Couldn't make it again. What's going on? He's doing Champions League. I'm going to have a little bit of tea. He's cheating on us. How good were Arsenal? My goodness. You know something? It was a beautiful... North London for it. All right, Jill? Really, Jill? There's some random stuff under here. Why is my phone not working? Yeah.

Is this one you have to just go like that? I need to bring that. Remember that leaf blower you got me? There's no battery with it. I'm taking this. There was no battery with it. Have you chucked it out? I'm going to see it. That cost a lot of money. Is this Jimmy's?

I'm sat in PMEC. The battery goes. Good luck, man. You can have that back. Lower. That leaf blower. No, you just have to pull it back again. Go on, easy. Chris, I knew you'd have it. The City fan would have it. Right. There you go. Watch this goal. Oh, you remember that goal? Yeah. Exactly. This is a similar way. Yeah, yeah. It was one of the best goals I've seen. It was an amazing goal. Okay, let's watch the corner first then. Here we go, here we go. Mario.

Mahrez. Mahrez. That's Mahrez. That's like 20 years ago. Yeah, what are you talking about last year? There. Oh, it was beautiful. That's not as good as Adrian Manso. Very good analysis of this goal. You know something? You know what he's done there? He's reacted brilliantly. He showed him in mid-air whilst he was controlling it. Yeah, he's reacted brilliantly. He's actually his feet are off the ground. Oh, that's beautiful. Yeah, it's beautiful.

I've finished about two touches. Michelle, your goal's better, Michelle Aggemann. Yeah, I've gone for Michelle's. Brilliant. First two touches. Beautiful. Ten years this year. Do you miss it? Are you not too bad? I can't relax. Look how beautiful skin looks in it. You can't do it. No, you've had your go, haven't you? When you've had your go, you've had your go, haven't you? You've had your go. How many games did you referee in the Premier League?

Like about? 310, I think. Wow. Is this large? I did 10 good ones. Not sure. When I retired, I'd close straight away. I never... Not me saying. Never pined for it, man. Yeah, I was... I was okay. Yeah.

I retired that day after and I went to Dubai the day after that because he told me to go away and think about it and I never once thought I made the wrong decision. And when was that? What part of the season was that? That was January 1st. That was New Year's Day, that game. And I went in January 2nd and went and saw him at half six in the morning and said, I'm just not playing anymore. And did you stop getting paid from then? This is really important. You don't play or say, I retired. So they stopped your wages or you hung around the club for six months? No, I didn't actually. They paid me to the end of the season. I left for a month.

I left Dubai and they were still paying you yeah they paid me for the season because my contract was there I was in the same boat because I was in the same board as you and I did a few ambassadorial things what did you do how did you do your mine was slightly different to that you know what I mean I just retired and got to Dubai by the way and we paid the rest of your contract I think it was Dubai for four months sorry I think it was Dubai for four months it went for a week yeah but you went to Dubai I didn't tell you you went for four months but you went to Dubai but for a week yeah were you getting paid when you went to Dubai for a week just to think about it yeah but I mean that's just like yeah alright

I didn't mean to be shy I'm confused with all that Gary's a man of principle I retired that day It'd be something to do with money I stopped playing football that day for United But when did you just leave the club? But I did leave the club before they carried on paying me to the end of the season You stopped playing football in the West London Refuse the money I'll give it to charity If you're not playing why do you contribute to the club? It's true, Gal Right, Chris A very serious part of the show this Erm

Nice start to it. Nice segue, girl. We're watching centre-backs, full-backs and goalkeepers touch the ball hundreds of times more than the most talented players on the pitch. That isn't right, that. It would be ball speed across the back running to the midfield, but now, I hate it and it just slows it down. Someone rang me in the first year in Punditry. It

It would blow your mind if this person went out like... You think of someone... A player or his agent? A player. He's been higher up the pitch. He's started getting more goals. He'd be up there when you're discussing the kind of grave players. Something in my heart stops smiling. You do doubt yourself though, right? The rain started in my heart. Whose Premier League legacy is greater? Mo Salah or Kevin De Bruyne? If you'd done the Kyle Walker thing and people said, Kyle Walker, and you say, no, I wouldn't be bothered. Deep down, you're kind of bothered.

12 months ago, we did CPR training in here and we all learned to do CPR. I think we were all quite shocked, actually. I don't think any of us, to be fair, knew how to do it before that. And the idea was that, is it 270,000 people were going to be trained to deliver CPR over a 12-month period? And I think the number now, Chris, is...

Well, it's over that. They're aiming for about 340,000 by the time they get to Wembley. So that's a really big number. When are you looking to get to Wembley?

Well, they've got Every Minute Matters Relay, which is going on now, which is 4,000 kilometres travel, walking, biking and running. And that will come to a conclusion at the play-off weekend at Wembley. So, as I said, they're hoping to get 340,000 people trained in CPR, which is fantastic. So good. And Chris, just tell us a little bit about your personal story and why you're doing this.

Yeah, it's something very close to me. I'd refereed a game a few years ago at Huddersfield against Leeds in the Championship early kick-off. And I got home that night, excuse me, and I went in, did usual stuff, did my match report, put my kit away, what have you, and nipped out to the shops. Came back, hadn't took my phone with me, and when I got back, my phone had lots of missed calls and there was some answer phone messages and it was a bit of panic. My brother had gone out that afternoon on his bike for a ride

And I hadn't returned home, couldn't find him, doing a ring round, where is he? And then I found out that sadly he'd lost his life that afternoon. At 47 years of age, leaving two young children and a wife, you know, going to hospital and seeing that was pretty devastating news, to be honest with you.

I mean, it's incredible really, isn't it, that we all don't, I mean, I know at school sometimes we obviously learn to deliver CPR, but then we just sort of seem to forget about it and we don't really pay a lot of attention to it as we sort of get older, but we all, there shouldn't just be 340,000 people, it should be 55, 60 million people being able to deliver it, shouldn't it? Absolutely, and I mean, the thing is with it now, because if you look at the British Heart Foundation website, it's 15 minutes on

on the Reviver tool. So if you go on the website and look at that, it's 15 minutes. It shows you how to do it. You do it practically. What is 15 minutes out of your life? People scroll. To save a life. Yeah. Exactly. You know, and you could be at a football ground. We hear that phrase, there's been a medical episode in the ground. Could you imagine if you were sat there or stood there and that happened and you went...

I don't know what to do. Yeah. Well, if you go on the website and spend 15 minutes of your time and learn to understand it, you might just save a life. My granddad's brother collapsed at the Sunderland game a few years ago and, like, literally 10 minutes he was just out and somebody kept him alive. And then he went on to have, like, another five, six years of life and it's kind of...

Do you know what I mean? It's incredible. And when we did it, it was so easy, wasn't it, to do? The gaffer, he's one as well. A sound man. It is actually about where you have the incident, isn't it, and who you're next to and whether they're actually competent in being able to deal with it. It's a lot of luck or bad luck as it would be involved in terms of making sure that people can deliver it or not.

Well, the thing is, the more people we can get trained, the more people that are proficient in it. I mean, where I live, we actually bought five defibrillators. Two have actually been used. So this is amongst us. This is happening. This is real. This is every day. And my message is simple.

for 15 minutes of your time, get on the website and learn how to do it. And it's critical, actually, that you get there. Is it the first two or three minutes are most vital? I think you've got to... Yeah, I mean, it doesn't... People would think, oh, you know, you're doing the kiss of life and you've got all this panic and worry. All you're doing is just checking a pulse, just making sure that the airway's open and get going. Yeah. And if you can remember the song Staying Alive... Yeah. Yeah.

Get that in your mind and just do those compressions, then you might just save a life. So what's happening today? I think the leg today of the 72 clubs is from... Yeah, they're walking from Stockport County to Salford City, and then tomorrow I'm going to be riding from Wigan Athletic to Tranmere, which will be great, because once I get into Liverpool City Centre, I can't ride through the tunnel. I'm not a brilliant swimmer.

So I thought we might have to go on the boat. Well, thanks for coming in, Chris. Thank you. Appreciate your time. Thank you. Good luck tomorrow with the bike ride. Good to see you. This episode of Stick to Football is brought to you by Skybest.

A big thank you to our partner Skybet, who along with EFL have created the Skybet EFL Every Minute Matters relay in support of the British Heart Foundation. It's a really important campaign connecting all 72 EFL clubs with the aim of inspiring fans to learn CPR. To learn CPR for free in 15 minutes, use the link in the description or search Reviver. How many miles is that bike ride? It's in kilometres, Gillian. I can't work out kilometres and miles. It's not that far, is it? No, it's about 35.

I think. Yeah, but that's still good, though. It'll do. It's good. Thanks a lot. Take it easy. Nice to see you. Thanks for not sending me off as well. No, it was terrible. The last two games I played for United, I should have been sent off at Stoke, and then the last game, I should have been sent off as well. Why does it need an incident like that for you to say? You must have known a few months before that, Dad. No, no, Dad, you don't feel right. Of course you...

You have to make your own decisions. No, I know, but that sounded like he'd been rubbish before that. I knew my time had come to the end. Only the player knows, so why does it need an incident where you go, I could have been sent off or I could have done to save your time. Because he probably lost the yard. There's a little bit more depth. So the end of the previous season, I thought I was retiring. Right. But I finished, I played the last sort of like 15 games and felt pretty good. Right. And that was one afternoon, I was in the office in Manchester and David Gill rang me and said, oh, he wants you to stay next year. I went, no, I'm not staying. Right.

And he said, well, you better go and see him. So I went and seen him the morning after. He said, no, you've still got a lot to give. And I thought... I went home that night, spoke to my dad, and he said, imagine sort of retiring at a point where you're still wanted by Sir Alex Ferguson to play for United, and you're still playing now. And I thought...

okay and I went for it yeah but if you felt you'd had enough I know but you know what happened first day of pre-season so obviously you have the four or five weeks off in the summer you well that's easy it's time yeah you feel everyone feels good on their holidays so basically I sort of started training in the summer first day of pre-season I'm actually running next to Scolzi and McArthur went oh no like Paul McArthur I thought what the first day first day first like first morning and I was like oh no

No. But that's what you should have retired, Gary. I swear, I'm not being a smartass. So basically, I came back, played, I think, against Everton in September, October. Didn't play very well. Then I kept pulling my calf every time I came back. Then played against Stoke, got subbed just after half-time. And then he came to me, I think, on the 27th, 28th of December. He said, I need you on New Year's Day at West Brom. And I thought, I'm nowhere near this. I just knew it, you know what I mean? And you can't say, no, I'm not playing, can you? Yeah.

Imagine. So you go out and play. Who's that player then that I brought down? Who's the name of that player? Who's that wide player? Graham Dorans. So what happened was, Jerome Thomas was the winger. And he's not quick, him. No, he's not quick. Is it Jerome Thomas? Jerome Thomas, yeah. Was the winger. So what happens, he was giving me a doing. So what I'm doing is, I'm then thinking, I don't want the ball to go over to him, so I go wider. The ball gets over his, and he runs in there. It's the old classic.

This episode of Stick to Football is brought to you by Skybest. Now at Verizon, we have some big news for your peace of mind. For all our customers, existing and new, we're locking in low prices for three years guaranteed on MyPlan and MyHome. That's future you peace of mind. And everyone can save on a brand new phone on MyPlan when you trade in any phone from one of our top brands. That's new phone peace of mind.

Because at Verizon, whether you're already a customer or you're just joining us, we got you. Visit Verizon today. Price guarantee applies to then current base monthly rate. Additional terms and conditions apply for all offers. In communities across the country, hourly Amazon employees earn an average of over $22 an hour with opportunities to grow their career and their paycheck. Learn more at aboutamazon.com.

Support for this podcast and the following message is brought to you by E-Trade from Morgan Stanley. With E-Trade, you can dive into the market with easy-to-use tools, $0 commissions, and a wide range of investments. And now there's even more to love. Get access to industry-leading research and insights from Morgan Stanley to help guide your decisions. Open an account and get up to $1,000 or more with a qualifying deposit. Get started today at E-Trade.com. Terms and other fees apply. Investing involves risks. Morgan Stanley Smith Barney LLC member SIPC.

E-Trade is a business of Morgan Stanley. I go back to it. You should have retired in the summer. Stuck to your guns. Don't listen to that Ferguson fella. Oh, you knew you had enough. Yeah, but you should have maybe retired when you left United then. You should have said the same thing because you were still picking up injuries at that time. No, no, but I was... My last game at United, we drew in Liverpool. I was doing okay. A sit in mid... No, no, I'm... A sit in midfield... Are you laughing at that? A sit in midfield is slightly different to you being a fullback and getting pulled left right inside. I could have played on for a year. You had to make up injuries though, didn't you?

When I went up to Celtic, because I was travelling up and stuff, so when I got to the summer, I knew I didn't know. There was something about, was it Harry Winks recently, about the travelling? Yeah, he wants him up there. I knew you were going to... I've got a massive problem with that.

But can I just say on that, because they were saying if he travels, what, 100 miles or something like that, but then you can have someone who lives right next to the training ground who has terrible lifestyle and everything else, but then they were just focusing on he shouldn't be travelling. No, Jill, to be honest with you, for me...

so I saw a couple of players on the train I'm not going to name them because I think it wouldn't be right they're getting the train from Euston up to Stoke changing at Stoke up to Stoke leaving the car there going to the training ground and then going back on the train that's not right that I can't so at Salford we had a player once that we had some bad experiences at Salford with players travelling an hour and a half two hours in the car really bad experiences and then one lad promised me that he was definitely going to move up anyway he didn't move up

He's late for the playoff final. He's late for the playoff final. He gets left in the stand, this talented player. And Graham Alexander said, no, you're out of the club. So I've got a really bad experience. And if you don't commit to a football club that are paying you good money by going and moving your family up or moving yourself up, I'm sorry, if they're paying that level of money, the least you can be is professional. You're travelling in a car for an hour and a half

it is not good for your legs it's not good for your back it's not good for anything I had it as a manager and I'd done it as a player up at Celtic it catches up with you obviously but when you're a manager you put demands on these players to say they'll rent a place but this thing actually won't commit to the area

but it's slightly different Gary lower down the leagues where you're on about families moving up some players have signed a one year deal and you're on about moving hosts with their family this was a three year deal alright ok that's slightly different of course but on certain wages you're on about lads committing some lads might be on big money I can't commit no but Roy if he told me that he wasn't going to move up I wouldn't have signed him so it's a condition of moving are you going to move definitely yeah ok when you ask a player to start I had at Ipswich I had players who were travelling from London and being late for training and you're arguing but they're looking at you going if they're

If they're not committed to the club, they're going to take these... So Gary looked in your eye and lied to you then? Because you said, are you definitely going to... Yeah, if you tell me you're going to move up and you're going to reset yourself in the area, you're going to reset yourself in the area. But I just think you can live next to the train and... Because I remember when I went to Villa, I was staying in a hotel. You're not in control of that, Jill. Yeah, but I was staying in a hotel all the time and it got to the point where I was just getting in and I just had no-one around and it was better...

actually for me mentally to go home have that drive and I felt in a better place to train and play but sometimes you can have a player live stone's throw from the training ground they're out on a night and I still felt like I was doing the right thing so I think there's kind of you know that mental happiness as well I think that's a big thing but if you're doing it every day not every day there's a once in twice a week most players you're not in control of that we've discussed here with players of a day off remember Rashford last year yeah

you're not in control of that. But you hope lads have a bit of common sense and if they are travelling... And then other players will argue, I had it with a player at Sunderland.

a lad was commuting from Manchester and he said I have a driver and they'd argue at that point but you're still sitting in the back of a car you're still not going to be you're still not comfortable driving if you drive for an hour and a half two hours and you stop at a service as you get out the first thing you do you go like that don't you you're stiff now yeah you know what I'm saying even when you're a player you are so you think about it you're talking about playing let's say it's the game on Sunday United in the city 75,000 people are coming to watch it

You have to make sure you prepare for that match the best way you can. You can't take a chance. You can't eat shit. You can't not drink enough. You can't go to bed late. Those are the things that have massive impact on these players that are in fine lines. Yeah, but guys, they've got those long vans with like a bed in it and everything. They're lying down in there. It's not the same, Roy. I think they're much more comfortable than just sitting in there like that, Roy. It can't be. It can't be sitting there. It's like when you fly back from a European game and you get back at three in the morning on a...

Thursday morning and then you play Saturday lunchtime or you play Sunday lunchtime you feel like you still feel a bit dazed from that trip back in Europe you still don't feel quite right travelling is not good I don't know the Celtic so when I left United I went to Celtic in December and the last four or five months of my time I was at Celtic where I was commuting and driving up sometimes flying to Edinburgh driving out to train you were driving for Celtic from here yeah from yeah I would drive in the morning for training how far was that and then I stayed in I obviously wouldn't be doing I'd have to leave I'd have to leave

Five? No, about six o'clock. And I tore my hamstring three times in five, six months I was out of cell. What, and you think it was off-driving? Definitely. Yeah, definitely. Yeah, it was that Lamborghini. It was sat on the floor. There's one thing that'll guarantee you getting injured. There's one thing that'll guarantee you getting injured, right? Having a drink on a Saturday night, you've got a good chance of getting injured on a Monday. I did my medial ligament once after a drink on a Saturday night and I thought, what am I doing? And then travelling is the other thing that will bring you injury. Guarantee. They're guaranteed to bring you injury.

See, I think if you look after yourself, I did do quite a bit of travelling, but yeah. When I went to, stayed in Forest, stayed in Scotland, you know, stayed in Burnley, loved it.

But you know it's not ideal, either. Staying in a hotel's not... That's not normal, is it? I first went to United, my first three months were in a hotel not far from here. You think it's all great, but you're like... Well, so is it. Four seasons. Yeah, because you're on club sandwiches every night, you know. A couple of bars nearby. You know what I mean? It's not ideal. When people say, I'm in a hotel and it's a nice...

no, that's not normal living either. No. Obviously, Marino, remember Marino was up at United, he was at the Lowry for, was it two or three years? Yes. When Jose and Pep both came to Manchester, psychologically, straight away, there was a sort of advantage because Pep bought an apartment, a big apartment in an apartment block just in Salford actually, believe it or not, the Lowry's in Salford as well, and Jose stayed in the Lowry. Right.

psychologically you're saying it's a commitment of course you're saying I'm committed I've bought a place here I'm staying here whereas actually Jose was almost like you're so temporary in it sorry even for Marina but not whatever we're buying rent a nice place rent a nice apartment so at least so then when you're sitting down arguing with players going have you committed to the club they're going well you're you're stuck in a hotel you could have that argument I suppose you're setting yourself off for a fall put it that way this episode of stick to football is brought to you by Skybet

Arsenal righty you happy yeah tell your face tell your face you know what it's really strange girl because obviously I've already committed to England Belgium second game and so when that came out you know I mean it's not like I'm going to say right I'm going to not do the women's because

Because it's a big game for the women as well. Obviously, it's an massive game for Arsenal. But I watched it afterwards. Did you watch it? It was amazing. It was amazing. No one expected that, did they? No. No one expected that. Not that performance, not that result. No, no, no.

I actually thought it sued him playing Real more than Atletico. I think I had a strange thing. Atletico would have been a tough game for Arsenal. I think everybody wrote... Because you look at them to a man, I think everybody played well. I think when you're playing that calibre of opposition, everybody has to play well. But I think Kivio, I thought he'd done well. Obviously the goalkeeper. I think Partey.

Martinelli turned up and then obviously Saka like 50% fit Saka was amazing yeah but the thing is you come into like the work rate and the mentality this is what the manager is always going on about is the group and the mentality they had to show it in that game but what I thought with Real Madrid is

is that there was a couple of times where I thought they played it well. They kept it quiet, quiet, because the crowd were going off it in that place. And they kept it quiet. And then Mbappe missed that chance. Missed that chance. See that chance? That changed everything. But Arsenal kind of risked it, right? There was times where Arsenal obviously pressed them. And they knew they'd get past them a few times. Yeah.

but what a proper brilliant European performance. For the first time in ages, I felt like I was really enjoying watching a game of football. It was nearly as good as the United City game. You know, the thing with it is, Gal, is that what's good about Real Madrid, and even now, you know what I mean,

Do you think it's over? Are you saying that's over? No, no, you're never... With them, especially with them, I know that they've... I think it's over. I do. You know what? Of course you're not going to say that, so if I say, yeah, me too, and God forbid we lose, but they've never come back from a 3-0 in the first leg. They've never done that, so hopefully we're not the first. Real Madrid. Yeah. And Aston defence. Aston get a goal over there. Right, it's the one team, though, isn't it, that if...

something to happen. You have to score early. You have to score a goal. They've got players who can score a hat-trick in two, three minutes. And like I say, Kivior played very, very well and it's a different situation when he goes over there and the protection that he's going to get. But that's what it's about, surely, at that stage. I know that we went there and we had some players missing but Saka, like I say, is 50% fit

And I didn't expect it to go like it did. Obviously, we've scored two goals from two free kicks. Oh, they were amazing. In the first half...

A couple of crosses from Saka. Again, you needed that person to put them in. Martinelli, a couple of crosses. I was thinking last night, do you think that... Obviously, Arsenal have to go on and win it for Declan Rice to be thought of. But your game in Turin, which always gets played back to you, I know sometimes you dispute it. Do you think that game will be Declan Rice as one of your... Oh, if they kick on, yeah. If they kick on and win it. If they kick on and win it. That'll be game-defining. Huge. A big...

I think it was a huge promise for the club, for the supporters, for the players, for the manager. Because there's always still been a bit of doubt about Arsenal over the last few years. That's the biggest ever result. I think so. It has to be. And they scored three goals, clean sheet. The energy in the team, the quality, the composure. I thought it was everything you need is...

that you'd want from I was watching home and I was sitting there like begrudgingly going no no I wasn't I thought listen give credit where it's due I thought you know the thing with Saka as well he had to do an interview before and like all the can you imagine how frustrating it is for him he's all fit and he's going in to play Real Madrid and

All they're talking about is, so where do you see yourself? You know, you've got Rodrigo, you've got Vinicius. And, like, he answered it very, very well. But you can see that he's a bit pissed off with that question because, again, yesterday he's up against those guys and he was, by far for me, the best wing-on. Just on the right, Emil. Emil Martinelli. We'll come on to it later, but...

The beautiful thing about Saka is he's never lost his enthusiasm and his happiness and the thrill of every time he gets it, he feels like he's still playing as a kid. From the moment he's come in to the moment now, he's not changed. And this break, I think the last few months...

might be well sometimes it happens listen we've been on about the last few years he doesn't he rarely misses a game there's pressure on him and I asked him to produce week and we go for such a relatively young player the England squad pressures with that the ups and downs with England so that break I think the last three or four months

probably would have actually done a world of good in Europe. I think Fabregas did an interview before and he was saying that he doesn't think you've seen the Declan Rice that was at West Ham. But when I was watching it, I totally disagreed with him. I think Declan Rice has been brilliant for Arsenal, even before that performance yesterday. And I was like, I was just so happy from when that first one went in.

and then he put the ball down for the second was... It's a brilliant play. But Declan has... We've always said for years on here or when we've been discussing him, he has got that technique. He's got great technique in terms of striking the ball, whether in general play or a dead ball. Of course, he's doing the set pieces. So the two goals last night, I wasn't that...

that he was able to do it I think he's got that in his locker but do it in such a big occasion particularly the second one I think the wall and the goalkeeper for the first one the goalkeeper's got to do better you think the keeper should have got that the wall he's got to do better he's got to have another man in not Verdi I know he's done but you still have another man just to cover you because you know he's a right footer you could even see the set piece coach going it's kind of

I'm here for the whip. I remember with David Moyes. The second one was fantastic. Fantastic. It went right in the corner. I've got a picture of it right in the corner. I remember David Moyes saying about, we haven't got enough for him. Remember what he was saying? He wanted 150 for him. And I know now we can all jump back and say, yeah, David Moyes was right. But since Declan's been...

at Arsenal from the time he's been there he's made that fee look embarrassing but what will help any midfield player we were chatting the other day about De Bruyne Gerrard if Rice can just add and if he's playing higher up the pitch and start getting more goals listen he's a brilliant player

He'll go even to another level. He'll be up there when you're discussing the kind of great players. And as I said, he has it in his locker. He's got a great technique. Even without the goals, his output. But that adds to it. His work, really. The goals add to it. If you throw the goals in on top of it, it's a nice package. Miles Lewis-Skelly going into a game. I think he's 17, 18 games into his career and he's now playing in that midfield position.

against Modric and Bellingham and that and you know again Bellingham's quiet wasn't he yeah but then Roy he's quiet but then the one bit of that's what they do that's what they do and that's what you have to that's how they punish you then all of a sudden you think oh no see one of them's going to do something yeah but at this level right at this stage of the competition all teams will have that guy they'll always be under pressure there'll always be someone who will put you through

but for Arsenal to score three goals and Arsenal are more than capable of going over there they probably should have scored one or two from set pieces in the first half but they've gotten lucky so if they can score from a set piece over there

Courtois. Courtois was probably the winner. Do you think they can win it? They play Aston Villa or PSG, wouldn't they, in the semi if they got through? What does he do this weekend with this league game that he's got coming up? Does he completely rest the whole team? What does he do with the likes of Saka, Rice, obviously Salih, but the ones that he can't afford to lose really before? It's an interesting one with Saka. Does he play again?

Who have they got at the weekend? Brentford. Brentford, that's a tough one. At home? At home. I don't think they'll fully rest Saka. Do you think he needs to keep getting just a few minutes? He won't play Saka, surely. Do you think he'll make it fully? He came off injured. Yeah, you would leave Saka off, wouldn't you? Yeah, but you could, but then...

You can start him for the first 45. Like, for instance, like, off of a game yesterday and he can rest, you know. What do you think he does at weekend then? Do you think he completely just carries on and plays a strong team thinking he's got to get sacked? I think he plays sacked to get more minutes in sacked. Right. Get some rhythm into his game. What have you done in the moment, though? Because I know, like, in the past when we've had three tough games, like...

a tough game and then an easier game and then a tough game it's like keeping a bit of momentum as well you know when you're playing well it depends if you're going for a league title if you're going for a league title then you can't be taking any chances but I mean our club there would definitely be four or five changes but that was always four or five changes and quality changes yeah there were four or five changes but you look at Pep and look at Klopp they just at Barcelona or even at City they just play the same team maybe make one change but you could probably look at the midfield and

I don't know. I think someone like Declan Rice should get a rest. So, Giorgino comes in maybe? Maybe, yeah. And even Partey. We know that he's had his problems with injuries. So, there's not being rested? Yeah. Juri Atimbo, another one. I didn't even mention Juri Atimbo. Yeah, but don't overthink it either. No. Because you're probably saying sometimes you're left out of a game and you think...

I'll be extra... And then you're not. Remember Pep used to overthink it and then he'd get it all... I think maybe just go... Yeah, Sack and Rice, there's certain players who've played lots of games over the last few years. Yeah, there's a bit of common sense with that. But don't be just taking a player out. Why? Because the game... You know, look at each player and give them that opportunity if you think they're fit enough. But...

Don't be too clever with this, man. They don't get a full rest though anyway. You know if you're going to a game, you travel, I don't know if the game's home or away, but you're travelling, you're still doing the same prep, you're on the bench, you're still going through it, you'd rather just play, wouldn't you? You know when you travel, obviously it probably happens to you more than me when you don't play. I think you end up sitting around and eating rubbish all day. That's not me. But you end up feeling worse. I would have actually felt better playing the game. At home, especially. Brentford.

You can take one or two risks. That's why he wouldn't rest Wazza. Because he knew if he said to him, I'm not playing this Saturday. You can't trust him. No, he just might not eat the right things. You know what I mean? You've got to carry on playing him. Yeah. I think there is certain players you have to do that. It was one of those, ideally, you know, last night, like I say, I watched it really late last night. It was really exciting and brilliant. But like,

You just wanted that to be the second leg. I know, but it's not the same live, is it? But the thing is, the commitment... I get it, I get it, but you didn't see the arse of the game live. It was like me... It's only live once, Ian. I'm sure someone said that before. It's only live once. I committed the full season to United, that's why I let them carry on paying me. To be fair, you honoured your contract, haven't you? Thank you. No, no, no, but I'll tell you what was really good is watching it, watching it, Roy... Could you go to the second leg? I'm serious, could you...

That'd be great. Oh, we should all go to the second leg. Oh, yeah, yeah, great. My brother lives in Madrid. Yeah, good luck to him. Yeah, I'm not going. When's the second leg? Next Wednesday. I've got to go to that. Oh, can we go? Two of you got private jet? You know, can I be honest? I'd rather watch it on the TV. I'd rather watch it on the TV than go to Madrid. This episode of Stick to Football is brought to you by Skybest.

Right, me and Roy spoke about the game on Sunday at Manchester City. Are we grumpy old men? Or were we right? Stop saying we.

You know something, it's not a case of... Are we grumpy old men? Or were we right to highlight basically, not for any individual team, but that the game itself wasn't an acceptable game. And the things were a little bit robotic. Yeah, but I've been hearing this for a while with people, just speak to fans, speak to people in the pub, they're saying, yeah, I don't hardly watch it now, you know what's going to happen. You know, City are playing against a certain team, you know that City are going to have a lot of ball, they're going to stay in, and there's not,

a lot to see in respects of a spectacle. Like entertainment. Yes, exactly. You know, like for instance, now we know like Pep, obviously, four on the spin, we know it's Pep football, everybody's like, oh, let's all play like that. But then you look at someone like Forrest. I think if Forrest weren't getting the results, then people would say, oh, they're just a team. But Forrest are exciting to watch. You like watching Forrest. I agree. But then,

But that's the way it's gone, the way Pep's done it. Should we sit here and accept it? You know what? I haven't even finished yet. We haven't even added into the fact that not only do you watch games that you watch, you think, Jesus Christ.

crying out loud. But then you've got the refereeing decisions that take the heart out of the game. The goal, you can't celebrate a goal. You don't know if it's going to be a goal. If they do score, you think, is it going to be knocked off with VAR? The fans in the stadium ain't got a clue what's going on. The most important people. It all feels a little bit like... But is a league title to have a little dip every now and again? I'm sure back when we played, there was years where it was like, actually, just...

We don't watch German football or Spanish football or Italian football. Do they have years where you go, just little dips maybe? I think that's a good point. I suppose in some ways it's the style of play that we're watching. You mentioned it earlier on in the season when we were in Barcelona about you'd watched a League Two game where I think it was MK, Dons and Salford and you said there were players playing out from the back on the six yard box and they obviously couldn't do that. That's why obviously they're playing at League Two level. But they're being asked to do things that they can't do. It's painful watching it.

Yeah. It's painful, isn't it? It's actually happening through the whole game. It wasn't just about the Manchester derby. I don't think the comments that we were making on Sunday. It's about generally in the game. Can I tell you, a game I saw, Roy, was the Old Firm derby a couple of weeks ago when Rangers beat... Yeah. And you know what? I'm not talking about...

It was like they were defending and they had all the possession ranges. It was a game that was end-to-end. Players trying. You know what I mean? Tackles flying. No one got booked for 35 minutes. The VAR didn't get involved in it. And it wasn't like, oh my God, it's Real Madrid and Barcelona. It was Celtic and Rangers and they were going for it. And it was one of the most entertaining games I've seen for a long time. Yeah, but the situation was that Celtic already had won the league so Rangers are going to come and have a good time.

go they just yeah yeah of course but that's what you want but when we're watching games our teams like just United at the moment or even City more reluctant even for these clubs to go their focus is more about not losing than going to win that was definitely the case on Sunday I know it's not that because every time they play do you think that's the mentality why it's so boring hmm

I think there's so much at stake. That game that was for you. If you play a game on the Premier League for some, even the less teams, a point is huge for them. So if you go, listen, take a point today. So their mindset would be for some of them is let's not be beaten. Yeah. But strange enough, that was a bit like United and City, which surprised me. I thought United...

But are we perceiving City United to be this massive game because we're kind of stuck in how they used to play, whereas now, as you say, you're not in the forest, you're Aston Martin. I thought it was a big game because City are still trying to get in the Champions League. United are trying to get their fans back on side. Get some pride. Yeah, pride. Pride has to come. But when we played football and you were playing younger age and there was nobody at the game, at some stage, it's your pride that kind of...

John to put on a good performance if there's one man and his dog watching it doesn't matter if there's 80,000 but I didn't see that on Sunday now whether that's some of our fault something we're sitting in the studio all day going listen we want goal action of course but when the two teams afterwards it's like we don't take a draw and go home you're like it felt very friendly afterwards wasn't it yeah whatever when we played we can only talk about our experience but I think our mindset I'm going to say 9-10

99 times out of 100 was to try and win a game to be shot in games where you go listen the draw's not too bad of course or you've a man sent off or whatever but your mindset had to be Man United are home surely they have to try and win a game of football yeah have to that should be in the DNA of the football club not to say hold on we're looking at next season we've got a new system we've got a new I get all that but you know where the goal is down there you've got to try and put the ball in there as if people forget about it you've got to score goals so I

obviously I had my comments on Sunday how I went strong on it because I just feel like the last few weeks I've watched games that have been a struggle they're a struggle to watch and you're right writing by the way the fans are saying it commentators are saying it people who are ex-coaches players I think even probably even current players are looking at thinking sometimes I mean some of the players are having their energy drained out and I went I thought we're seeing so much of defenders being on the ball and I thought do you know something I'm watching constantly goalkeepers and defenders on the ball constantly

So I went back to the last five years of my career. I've not been on Monday Night Football for a few years, but I actually wanted to go on Monday Night Football on Monday night. In two of my last five years at United, the five players who had the most passes in the league in 2006-07 were Fabregas, Scholes, Alonso, Gilberto Silva and Lampard. Next year it's Fabregas, Gail Clicci, defender, was in there, Flamini, Gerrard, but...

The year after, Denilson, Alonso, Mikel, Lampard, Murphy. The year after, Barry Ferguson, Mascherano, Lampard, Terry, Lucas Leiva. The year after, Modric comes into a group with Ferguson, Essien, Murphy. Mainly midfield players. Holding midfield players, you're dictating the game. They're the players who have the most possession in the ball in my last five years in my career. They're players I want to see on the ball, just most generally. Some of them maybe not, but most of them. In the last five years in the Premier League...

Well, last year, Virgil van Dijk, Joseph Guardiol, Levi Colwell, William Saliba and then Bruno Fernandes. Four defenders in the top five have got the ball. The year before was Rodri, Louis Dunk...

Virgil van Dijk, William Saliba, the year before that. Lewis Dunk had the most passes in the Premier League. We don't come to football to watch Brighton centre-back play, do we? No. We just don't. Rodri again, Alexander-Arnold, Trippier, van Dijk, four defenders in it again. 2021-22, Cancelo, Rodri, always in it, Rodri. Laporte, Trent Alexander-Arnold, Hoiberg. So two midfield players in that group, but three defenders. The year before that, Robertson, Alexander-Arnold, Ayling,

Rodri now obviously there's four defenders in that but Robertson and Trent were flying forward but you've got a complete shift so you can either say the game's evolving which it has or

But is the job of a football coach or a football team not to get the best players on the ball as much as possible in a game with the best quality? But also, is that more teams are sitting in? Is that another argument to it? Whichever way we're looking at it, we're watching constantly and we've been served up this crap where we're watching centre-backs, full-backs and goalkeepers touch the ball hundreds of times more than the most talented players on the pitch. That

That isn't right, that. We've got to call it for what it is because the reality is you can say the game's evolving, you can sound cynical as an ex-player, but it can't be evolving in the right way. If the least talented players on the pitch are defenders, which we are... You mentioned Brighton. Brighton have been successful the last few years, so maybe that suits their way of playing. I've no doubt it suits all teams. No, I don't think it does. I don't think it... Southampton have been relegated. They try to play off from the back, so it doesn't necessarily suit certain teams.

The bit that annoys me, if you're like City a few years ago, when they're playing off from the back, you're going, but you know what, they're buying their time and then it's the bad teams who are doing it and getting caught. You're going, what's the point? That would be my argument because as a manager of the staff, you must sit there and go, what's the best way for us to get results? Brighton have found a way, to be fair to Brighton, Brighton have made...

good progress over the last few years so if they're playing off in the back you go yeah I can see why you're doing it but Roy I don't see why the other teams are doing it who can't progress up the post but Roy in my last five years at United that was a team that got to three Champions League finals and won four Premier Leagues successful team Vidic and Rio were the centre-backs

They played out from the back every game, but they got the ball straight away. So the mentality of a United centre-half in that era, and probably every centre-half in that era, even the other clubs, was to get the ball into Roy Keane, Paul Scholes, Xavi Alonso, Chess Fabregas, Steven Gerrard, straight away. That's our job. My job is to get the ball into those players as quickly as possible with quality. They get on it, we've got more chance of winning a football match.

That's not what's happening here. The goalkeeper's getting... When they used to play off from the back, even the beginning with City, it would be ball speed across the back and then into the midfield. But now, when the weight on the ball, I hate it and it just slows it down. Somebody comes, it's like a game of chess and I think that's why it's just staying around the back too long. It used to be quick, quick, quick,

Is it because obviously Pep and the way he's come with the way he wants to play? It's weird when we mention Pep because it's hard to criticise Pep. But it's the other coaches, the foreign coaches who have come in, are they not as good? Do you reckon the quality has dropped in terms of the coaching? Because everyone looks at Pep. We all look at Barcelona, but not every team can play like Barcelona. But Roy, I said to be fair, what we're seeing now is poor imitations of Pep's style. So Pep's not the problem here. Pep's, to be fair, a genius who's built unbelievable teams and won two Premier League titles and trebles and all the rest of it.

But I think the other coaches are now getting caught up in it. To see a team that's 18th in the league have their goalkeeper on the six-yard box roll it four yards to the centre-back, I'm sorry. It's crazy. We can sound cynical here and say that we're not evolving with the modern game, or we can just call it for what it is, which is that the best players on the pitch are not spending time on the ball. But even worse than that, wingers. What's the wingers' job in football?

ball. Get the ball, either cross it or deliver it into the box or play a one-two in or to go past the full-back. That's their job of a winger. We've now got wingers who are frightened to death to take on full-backs and they're recycling it constantly back to full-backs and sending me field players. You can actually watch players, they run towards the defender, they stop and then they come back that way. It goes like that.

All the time. It's very tough. Do you think that's a fear? Because Saka was amazing last night, just going forward, trying to take the full back on. But why are players doing that? Is it fear? Maybe they're on about... Possessions, retaining the possession. Roy, do you know what they're frightened to death of? They're frightened to death of giving it away. So the final third used to be the risk area of a football pitch where you could give it away. Yeah.

Actually now, if you give it away in the final third, you're deemed as giving it away. So let's say a winger gives it away by coming inside and trying to beat someone. They give it away. They're frightened about counter-attack. They're constantly in fear of the counter-attack against them and the goal being scored in their net when they're on the ball. Now I get it, you've got a...

obviously you're defending attacks when you're you're defending starts when you're attacking obviously that's the same when we were playing you have to make sure you're in good positions City have been unbelievable at sustaining attacks I love the way the centre-backs push up now and they sustain attacks and they circle everybody and that's brilliant

But your forward players are now being told, be careful not giving the ball away. When we're watching games, if you're watching games at home, whatever level, and teams do it quickly and they do it properly, isn't it great to watch? Yeah, this is what I'm saying. When you're passing forward, you've runners, people running off the ball, you're like, how good is that to watch? There was a bit that Man United did. I think Bruno was involved twice and it was just a great bit of play and it was like, oh,

United's got the best chance in the first camp when we're called to maybe Bruno and Bruno just kind of playing it in and someone actually running just running off the ball he's a different level in every play I'm not reopening the bait we had here four, five, six weeks ago but he is when you look at him in that team because obviously the rest of the team are out at the level I thought on Saturday on Sunday his level of quality was exceptional in that game compared to every player on the pitch actually

And he's the only player that gets on it and half looks like he's going to try and do something. Do you know what seems good to watch when you think about it? I know they've done the back of some good runs. Newcastle. Yeah. I think Newcastle do it quickly. They were good against Leicester. I agree. They're not afraid to lose it. I don't mind Villa. I don't mind Villa. Yeah, Villa. Forest, Villa, Newcastle. I think they've got a good balance between both. I still like Brentford as well. Yeah. Yeah.

I like Brentford because they're true to themselves I remember when City were really in their pump flying Brentford would go there and they would say right have a go at it yeah you're going then you do what you do but we know and that is what I don't think we see enough of we don't see enough of teams saying we're not happy with you we talk about the opposition like United and City but our teams and players may be over coached I can only go back to when we all played

We never stood on the training pitch for hours, were we, being told where to go? Yeah. I don't remember that. I was. You were at City, though, weren't you? Yeah, yeah, yeah. The City model is different, and I'm not sure I'd have minded what City have done. Yeah, of course, yeah. But I don't know if players are a bit fearful of stats.

as well now because I remember as soon as we finished playing it would be like how many times you give the ball away like you're always I don't know are they a bit fearful of I don't know you retain possession 20% of the time but if you're a forward player that one thing you do over your goal like the stat that I think is really important is goals yeah listen we've all had games where you've had bad games where you've missed a few chances but if you've won 2-3-0 or 2-3-1 you go that's fine

It does mean you're not going to look and learn and try and make yourself better, but the whole idea of we're going to try and score some goals. It has to be. When you think of all those why the game is like it is, a bit turgid at the minute, why it is, and then you add in

the refereeing decisions. And I don't want to talk about them, but I was like, I was watching the game and... Who should have been sent off last week? Everton. Yeah. Oh, come on, man. How did he not get sent off for that? Tarkovsky. And even in the game, even in the game against Arsenal, Patterson went in on Wanyeri earlier and you think to yourself, that's a terrible challenge. How can the VAR, Porto Aenei, look at the Tarkovsky challenge

Say that Lewis Skelly was aggressively holding him and look at Tarkovsky's challenge and not give him a red card for that. McAllister is lucky to be playing football at the moment with that challenge. It was one of the worst I've seen for a long time. But it's not the referee's fault. No, no, no, it's not the VAR. It's the referee. No, but he's got to cover his mistakes. The VAR is there to help him, but he can look at that and say, whoa. Because if you look at the Tarkovsky challenge on McAllister, and I'm not trying to bring it in so as not to dig him out on that,

As soon as you see that, you wince. So how can you look at it as a referee and not wince and think, no, no, no, he's got to go for that? But if he's made a mistake, surely then VAR will help him out. Well, this is what I'm saying. So how can he not? With VAR there and everybody's seen it, without VAR, the Tarkovsky Challenge...

How can a referee honestly not say that's a red card? He should not be working. Maybe they're doubting themselves, right? Maybe they're doubting. How can you not just watch your back once? So, like, we're at home, we'll watch your back once and you're like, yeah, red card. Why does it go on for, like, six, seven, and then there's, like, 11, 12 minutes added on? I do think it's ruining our game. And then you look at the penalty. The penalty was, again, that's the game where...

Something in my heart stopped smiling. You do doubt yourself though, right? My heart stopped smiling when I saw that penalty given. What penalty given? Which one? The one Everton got against Arsenal. Oh yeah, yeah. Oh right. You know, the rain started in my heart. The rain, it started to rain. I had an outfit like that on this morning but I looked in the mirror and I doubted myself. I went back to black. You went back to black. ACDC. This episode of Stick to Football is brought to you by Skybest.

Now at Verizon, we have some big news for your peace of mind. For all our customers, existing and new, we're locking in low prices for three years guaranteed on MyPlan and MyHome. That's future you peace of mind. And everyone can save on a brand new phone on MyPlan when you trade in any phone from one of our top brands. That's new phone peace of mind. Because at Verizon, whether you're already a customer or you're just joining us,

We got you. Visit Verizon today. Price guarantee applies to then current base monthly rate. Additional terms and conditions apply for all offers.

To remind you that 60% of sales on Amazon come from independent sellers, here's Tracy from Lilies of Charleston. Hi, y'all. We make barbecue sauce, hot sauce, and specialty popcorn. They get help from Amazon to grow their small business faster. They handle all our shipping and logistics, which is a big help. All on it up. Have a great day, Tracy. Hot stuff, Tracy. Ooh, honey. Shop small business on Amazon. Yay!

Right, I think it's a difficult one. Whose Premier League legacy is greater? Mo Salah or Kevin De Bruyne? At the moment, you'd probably have to go with Kevin De Bruyne, wouldn't you? Simply because of the amount he's done. And I think that he's probably one of the... He probably makes the all-time Premier League XI, I think. If we're going to be totally honest with what he's done. Someone sent me some...

The clips of his play and his goals. Honestly, he's a... I don't know what to say. He makes it look easy, doesn't he? He does. He's a fantastic player and an unbelievable pro. You know, always serious, always asking of more of the players in and around. He never looks happy with what's going on, but... My only concern is, why do, every time a City player's leaving, they write a letter supporting...

Why would you write a letter? Do you think they're sitting writing? Would you write a letter? I think I wrote a letter. Did you? No. Yeah, but this is what I'm saying. Thanks for the extra six months. Again, we're talking about the players. We're talking about how it is and everything that's around these players at the moment as well. And he's almost under pressure to write that letter. So, Joseph, it's not a letter. It's a statement. It's a press release. It's a statement. Like, when you left United, you made a statement saying thank you to the club for the ten years. What would your letter have said? Yeah.

It would have just been one thing. Shall we write one for you? Yes, let's write a letter. Did he write a letter? No, but I think it's presented like a letter, but it's essentially a statement. Right, he's put his hat on for Man City, for De Bruyne leaving, haven't you? Have we answered the question, De Bruyne or Mo Salah? De Bruyne. Why did you compare them? Look, it's a question. The thing with them is that you look at De Bruyne, he's got so much more.

He's got so much more in respect of trophies, so you naturally lean towards that. But at the same time, his ability is amazing. Mo Salah is amazing as well. Can you remember De Bruyne's goal against Norwich? That was such... When he does that little bit of skill and then...

There's been a struggle the last year or two for him hasn't there? Yeah but he's got an injury hasn't he? A bit like you at West Brom you see him on snow days it hurts you to see a brilliant player going especially because he's an attacking player it sounds like he's changed his game to be like a defensive midfielder where certain what I kind of done but if you're still in the team to do something on the ball and his sharpness isn't quite there he's not as mobile obviously the injuries have caught up with him that's kind of sad to see so apparently he's glad he's leaving going listen go and have your couple of years or whatever to stay Do you think he'll go on Murriga?

I think America. Yeah, maybe. I'm hearing Bex, I'm hearing Miami. America. I was told last night, actually, in America, I don't know what the right word is, is it Discovery? So if a club put your name on a list of the MLS, you're a Discovery player, they have the first right to speak to you. So apparently into Miami...

two or three years ago put Kevin De Bruyne down as a player as one of their discovery players so they have the right to speak to him obviously he doesn't have to go there but basically they've got the first right to speak to him so they discovered him three years ago they did there's a bit of talent there there's a bit of talent there in this lad did they discover Messi a few years earlier as well so Messi went to Ismail I didn't realise that would be a thing that you have to put five players down and sort of like list them as the players that you would want to sort of try and approach

That's interesting because you'd have to look at who you think is going to think about coming out. It's a waste of a discovery, isn't it? Yeah, yeah, yeah. You're allowed five, apparently. Wow. So that means you can literally put down any names you want of the top names. So we're going to put down Mbappé's name now. What do you mean? And Bellingham's name. They've got a lot of big players, haven't they? You're allowed, I think, three or four, what they call in MLS, the... Franchise players. No, the... Yeah, they're not...

Marquee players, yeah. So you're allowed three or four of them, but the rest of the squad will be on a salary cap type thing. Yeah, but they've got Busquets, Suarez, Alba, Messi, De Bruyne, if he goes. I don't know.

I know, but maybe one of them's leaving next year. It's next year, obviously. Do they not top the money, though, in, like, different ways? Like, sponsorships and... Appearances. I think, yeah. Little envelope. Added-as contract. Trip to Dubai. Little envelope. Ambassador roles. Yeah, you could easily just go around the house after a game and say he's a little top-up, couldn't you?

Team in the States, could you? So, Mo Salah or De Bruyne? I said De Bruyne. I have to say De Bruyne. I'll go De Bruyne because I'm a big fan. Full house De Bruyne. You know something, can I just say, it's an unfair question on Salah though. Yeah, it is. You have to go with somebody who's got the same amount of medals or the same amount of accomplishments. But that's the thing nowadays, we've got to a point now where you give a positive answer on someone, you're criticising the other. We're not criticising Mo Salah.

If you said to me who's better, Gary or Phil Neville, and someone said Phil, I wouldn't be upset about it. It's a choice. If someone said Kyle Walker or Gary Neville, and someone said Kyle Walker, I wouldn't be upset about someone choosing Kyle Walker. We all know Phil had more talent than you, but you kind of walked a little bit higher. Plus, if you'd done the Kyle Walker thing, and people said Kyle Walker, and you say, no, I wouldn't be bothered, deep down, you're kind of bothered. You'd be a little bit bothered. If you're a little bit bothered, that means you're bothered. I can promise you I'm not.

I can promise you I'm not. You've got a good poker face there. You will be bottled. Well, I'm asking you. Walker or Gary? Don't bottle it now. I'll go with Gary. Consistently. I'll go with Gary every day of the week. I'll go with Gary. I'll go with you, Gary.

Thanks for that. That's what I was getting at. So you're happy, Belanda? He's happy. He's happy. Legacy's greater. Gary Neville or Kyle Walker. Right, next one. For the second season in a row, three promoted teams will be relegated. Should we be worried? Absolutely worried. And it's not the fact that they've gone down with such low points and victories, goals for, goals against. Same last year. These teams are down with...

How many games did Southampton have down? If that happens again next season, Gal, then I think the Premier League seriously have to be looking at that. I think the teams who have come up to have to make a better effort. Of course it's going to be hard to stay up. Of course, if Sunderland go up, it's going to be hard. How do you make a better effort in respect to the way they're trying to play? They can't do that for a second. I think a lot of them are overplaying. Southampton certainly just after the season were cut out.

I don't know what else they can do, Roy, in respect of... Unless you can... Be harder to beat. Be harder to beat. There's a football question, but there's also the financial disparity of basically what's happening between the Championship and the Premier League. We've talked about this for years. But to be so many points behind... You want it to go to last day of the season, remember that? Like, who's going to get... You don't want to see teams eight games to go. Yeah, but when there's 17 teams that's in that will be continually getting money, because these three teams are coming in, whether it's Leeds...

Fritz Schäfer, whoever is going to come, Burnley, and then they go again. These 17 teams are just continually getting stronger. Like the middle teams, look where Villa are now. Look where Brighton are. Look at Fulham having a go. You know, Brentford, Bournemouth, all of these teams are getting so much better than the teams that's coming up. We talk about Burnley, we talk about managers, we can be critical of managers who stick to their guns or whatever. Burnley made down last year on company or whatever. Russell Martin, I think Russell Martin is obviously a good manager.

Russell Martin, isn't it? First game of the season, they go up to Newcastle. They lose 1-0. After the game, he gets interviewed. But they gave the ball away. The goalkeeper got caught on the edge of the box. Newcastle were down to 10 minutes with their demands sent off. But they lose the game 1-0. Your first game in the Premier League. And after the game, he gets interviewed, Russell Martin. I'm listening to him. Obviously, I look at all these promoted teams.

And he said, well, the commentator obviously said, interviewed him after the game, said, well, obviously that was the mistake that cost you. Yeah, but it was loads of other times we got out. But you're going, but that was the defining moment of the match. That's what cost you. It doesn't matter if you got out 99 times. And that was what happened to him over the next few months. I always think managers and staff, they must go in on a Monday morning. If you're constantly getting beaten, going, well, why are we getting beaten every week? We can't keep doing what we're doing, whatever that might be.

and I go back you go what do you do if you get be hard to beat be harder to beat than what they've been and I'm going back to the three teams I was on last year teams were getting hammered was it Sheffield United got beaten 8 or 9 nil at home on a Monday night maybe one off games can happen like that but you have

to give yourself a bit of a chance imagine if you get beaten weak you may go going lads what are we doing so wrong what was your first thing when you went up because obviously you knew it was going to be difficult with Sunderland what was like your first was it too hard to beat my mindset when we went up with Sunderland obviously you want to try and get better players in but it's hard because players are asked to re-examine a lot of players don't want to go up to Sunderland but the key when I was going in I remember thinking the start of the Premier League

I was thinking, we need a good start. I go back to Southampton, Newcastle. A point away to Newcastle for Southampton just gives you that little bit of belief and confidence. Our first game, my first week as manager of Sunderland in the Premier League, we had three games. We had Spurs at home, Birmingham away, Wigan away. Our first week in the Premier League. We beat Spurs at home, 1-0.

chopper scores in injury time chops after a game so big sports yeah yeah three points already when you think if you'd be lucky to average a point a game so we're up and running we go to Birmingham was Bruce the manager at Birmingham we score in the last minute draw get a point so four games that took and I'm going

It's not too bad, it's permanent. I'm sure what the fuss is about. Were you thinking the Champions League? No, we were the champions winning the Champions League. We got to Wigan on the Saturday and I think at Wigan we beat Spurs, we drove with Birmingham. Wigan, I think, beat us 3 or 4-0 and it could have been 10. That was Wigan. So you're already on that rollercoaster of how tough it is. So for me, I think we've had a really great start. We've only got four points after three games. So it's that...

I think these teams, you have to get some sort of foothold in the Premier League. And obviously the lesser teams get some confidence. But this is the problem with the 17, with the three that come up, with the 17. Then all of a sudden, like you look at Wolves this season, right? Look at Wolves. Wolves have been so bad this season. They've got nothing to worry about. It's almost like being able to, yeah, but it doesn't mean, it doesn't really, the players, we don't need to really go hard because of these little guys. What's happening with that? Yeah.

and then Wolves win the Ipswich the weekend and Wolves all the players are all crying and celebrating and you're going did you really think you were going to get relegated Wolves do you really think you were going to get dragged in with the other three teams who are really poor and struggling and obviously that can happen there's a lot going on there's a lot going on in that what's going to be a worry you need a goal scorer it's got to the point now where clubs that come up

I mean, obviously, Forest did it and they spent the £100 million. Burnley, I think, spent the £100 million. The problem you've got is then you have those wages when you sink back, even though there is some sort of level of... Well, there has to be. There is, but one point is the risks that you have to take to stay in mean that if you go back down with the parachute, it then becomes a point where you're going under financially. Of course. So you're frightened then to go for the risk. What you see now is teams coming up thinking, there's no point in going for it that much. I get it. We'll try and outperform it and then at least we're not basically going under financially. So it's like,

What about championship teams? It's not even wanting to come up. Do you ask me what did you do with Sonny? You didn't spend 200 million, but you've got to spend it. How much did you spend, Roy? I mean, obviously, the relative at the time. Oh, and if my first season, I wouldn't know. In the Premier League? Chops, I'm trying to think of the players we brought in. I don't think we were spending crazy money. Just after the second season, we tried to obviously take more of a gamble when you got a foothold in the Premier League. But when you first come up, you're trying to probably buy... Your market is the best players in the championship.

You're trying to buy them loans that you think get you a foothold. Or a loan, maybe. Of course, loan deals. I brought Johnny Evans in, a loan deal, yeah, you get one or two loan deals in, of course.

But I think it's probably harder now, no doubt about it. But does a good manager bring in a few? Because obviously you haven't got the money, whatever. And then the players that have come up, you've got to try and get them from six out of tens to seven. Of course. That's got to be the sign of a good manager. Surely a manager's job is to get more out of the players. You've got to, of course. But some lads then just can't make the step up. They just can't. They just...

The championship players. That's exactly what I think with the bottom three. There's just a lot of players that are just not good enough. But you've got to give them a chance though, right? So if you're talking about players you get promoted and you think, listen, we're going to be able to answer. This is going to be difficult to get a foothold in the Premier League for two or three years.

But don't put your players under pressure by playing a certain way. They'll definitely be fonged out. I think that's where a manager's throwing their players under the bus. You have to get to a stage where you go, look lads, don't overplay it. There's nothing wrong with that. If you're a defender and the manager asks you to play up but you don't think you're good enough, then that's on the manager. You can't be asking lads to do something. The reason I wouldn't play out from the back if I was one of the lower teams in the Premier League

partly because the defenders have come up from the Championship and they're not good enough to play out from the back but one thing that has improved enormously in the game is the forwards understanding of pressing pressing has definitely improved from 10 years that's one thing that's got so much better in the game they're so organised now in terms of winning the ball off people and setting traps that

it's even harder to play out from the back than it was 10 years ago. Yeah. It's so hard to play out from the back now because they're all based there. Yeah, but teams try and set traps obviously lower down. They try and set in the championship but what happens if they do win a back high up the pitch they're nowhere near as good in clinical as the Premier League. Obviously, these teams have come up obviously their problem is when you come up from the championship you've played a certain way you've won a lot of games you do believe a bit of ego or pride going maybe we can

We can do that in the Premier League. Like when Burnley came. But if you've got Havertz, Trossard and Sakharov, you've got Salah, Mane and Firmino a few years ago. You give the ball away against those three, you're dead. It's the same with us a little bit when you had Rooney and Tevez and them, they were just sprinting everywhere. You give the ball away against them, you're dead. If your best players on the team, we mentioned it already in some of them stats, are high up the pitch, Rooney, these amazing players, your mindset would be,

Gary, I used to play with you. Hit the strike. Hit the lance quickly if you can because you're the top players. Why should we hang around with it? Why should a goalkeeper have seven, eight, nine, ten touches going, what are you doing that for? You're giving everyone a chance to get set. You're giving everyone a breather. You're not sending a good message to your home supporters that you're undecided. It's not as if...

oh, we're doing it to suck teams in. No, you're not even that good at it. You know what else is a big surprise as well is when you come out, remember when we came out, Palace came out, you actually, because you see those players on the TV and you think, ah, good day, but then...

When you play against them and then you think, oh, it'll be okay because let him shoot, let him shoot, bam, top corner. It's the size, the physicality. Yeah, the physicality. Then all of a sudden, I remember, I remember at first when we came up, we played Man United, we drew 1-1. But then we played Coventry the next week. I never, it was, they were so sharp, so good that you think, this is Coventry, this is one of the teams where we looked at it and said, ah, yes, we got Coventry. Whatever.

they were so good I hear a lot of teams teams lower down what I've just mentioned there about Spurs, Birmingham it might be easy your mindset would be we've got win ability when I hear managers going no don't think that way because what we thought was oh yeah but we're able to save ourselves and you play against them and when they batter you

That's the setback. Here we go. That's when you start to realise. Because all of a sudden, you're not a yard close enough and you realise what they can do and how they can hurt you. You realise how much the margins, you make that mistake. Like when Burnley came up, like when Southampton probably played like that. And then you realise, and the players, you realise it in real time. It's scary. Imagine setting up a team that have come up from the Championship to go to Anfield and play out from the back.

in the first 20 I just the logic of that it's like the logic of that play out from back at Anfield you're dreaming about that the night before aren't you like you know what I mean if you think I'm going to try and do it play out from the back at Anfield why would they think they could play out from back at Anfield we went to Anfield and like you know it was brilliant we were looking at everything 9-0 they beat us

And then the thing about that is... 9-0. 9-0's a bit embarrassing. I couldn't see the ball through the tears. I couldn't see the ball through the... 9-0's not right. But the thing was, is again, you remember Liverpool had that stage in there? At least one game a season, they would tear someone to pieces. They'd done it to us, and I remember we went there and we were saying, right, come on now. We couldn't get near them. Right, very important this, so you will have huge setbacks. Sunderland, we got lost 7-1 at Everton.

What did you do the following week? We drew. Right. We drew. That's the key. The following week, we won. The following week. Who against? Honestly, I've never been so nervous going into a game. Liverpool can do that to teams. Let's be realistic. A team can harm you. You're not going to ask me what happens to myself in Valencia against Barcelona. I was sick the week after.

But my manager always said to me... You wanted a reaction after a big setback. It's so easy, though, to bounce back after a setback like that. The whole week we were shooting ourselves. Yeah, I think so, because you're motivated by rubbish. No, no, I do. Oh, crap, I do. I'm telling you, players are low confidence. I'm telling you. It's a thing. We're going on too much. Super 6. Super 6.

Welcome to Super 6. Hello. Last week, Gary, nine points. What? Top 30% of players. You beat over half a million players, Gary. You're so good. You love picking him up. I think we got more than that, didn't we? The mortgage maker. If you give us a two or a three, I will write 14 points. You see, I told you. It was me as well. Yeah, sorry, Jill. Come on, Jill. I'd like to see the previous week's results. No, no, no. We're there. How many people...

How many people did we beat? I don't always trust Ben. Top 6%. Top 6% of players. You beat 742,000 players. Wow. I'm wasted here. I should be a manager. No, somebody messaged me on social media saying, see when Roy lets Gillan Wrighty do it, what happens? I remember that as well. And I said, you know what? Suzanne from Bradford. Let him be the captain with the captain's hat. Let him have it. Gary was the first.

Are you going to put the points up? Oh, yeah. Hey! Good job. Am I on your team? I want to see the scores. It's starting to get worried now. You must be. I know it's still well in front. Yeah, but Gary's still... Do you want to maintain me and get me involved? Should we get Cara involved? Yeah. See if he answers. He won't answer. He's too busy. Hey, he's not bad. You know something? We're catching, you know. You ain't making that up.

I feel like I'm cheating on my team. You can go over there and leave me on my own if you want. Nice one. Come on, Jill. I will ring Cara. I can't leave my team. Jamie! Yes? Cara, we're doing Stick to Football. It's Super 6 and Jill's gone over to righty and Roy's side. They said ring you. Yeah, please. When you go for it. Forrest Everton's the first game. E.

What did you say, James? 1-0 for us. 1-0 for us, OK. We're going to score a set piece. I'm going to...

Honestly, I'm buzzing, mate. You can imagine. You know, the thing is, James, what it does... Yeah, but, James, what it does is that because, obviously, we've got the second leg, it kind of keeps you a little bit level, but, honestly, that is the greatest performance I've ever seen at the Emirates in respects of the fans. Unbelievable. I'm getting carried away. I'm not getting carried away. I'm not getting... Thank you. Southampton Villa. 2-1. Honestly, I was so excited. 3-1 Villa. 3-1 Villa. Yeah.

3-1 Villa, we've gone, James. Southampton. It's... Garrett, Cara, it's Southampton, Villa. They've gone 3-1 to Villa. I don't see Southampton scoring a goal. No, 2-0? Who said 1? 2-0 Villa. Can we change ours to 3-0, please? No, it's a corner. Do you want to still get my fee if you stick to football? No, you're not allowed to get paid, apparently, if you don't work for the company anymore. Roy told me before. He'll be getting paid enough tonight. Why wouldn't he give...

Why would we give... Off the corner. Do you want to... Tear the header. New manager. New manager bounce. Right. Brighton, Leicester. Brighton, Leicester. What did someone say there? New manager bounce is self-answered.

What are you going with? Brighton South. Brighton Leicester. They're going to be flat Leicester. 3-0 Brighton. I think Brighton would score 2-0. 2-0. Carrie, are you in London? 2-0. Arsenal Brentford.

Team of the season for who? Just one of the brands I... Yeah, two on Arsenal. Two on Arsenal. That's what I said. Is Jamie in London? He's in London doing some brand work. Jamie, are you doing... Is it Guinness? Is it Guinness?

Was that last week? EA Sports. He did Guinness last week. What's Arsenal-Brentford, James? Arsenal could rest quite a few players, couldn't they? Yeah, 1-1. I'm happy with that. Really? Liverpool-West Ham. Liverpool-West Ham. Liverpool will win. It's a tough one. 3-0 Liverpool. You think 3-0, Cara? Are you just getting carried away a little bit? Yeah, 100%.

Newcastle are playing well. Right, if you go on. You want to go 2-0? Do you think they're more conservative? Yeah, I think so. 2-0 Liverpool. Go on, Liverpool and get a goal. They've been leaking a few goals, Liverpool. 2-1? Yeah. 2-1, 2-1 Liverpool. I'm liking our scores. Jamie, I liked your analysis on the Liverpool game. You're very good, Jamie. Oh, thanks, Jill. It was good. I don't normally get much positive feedback from people on social media, so I'm going to keep it.

Don't worry. I'll tweet you. Don't worry about social media, James. We'll give it you. Real people. It's us. Newcastle United. Newcastle United. Newcastle. Wait, don't say anything yet, Caro. It's Newcastle versus United. Newcastle. Yeah. I...

I don't like it. They've gone 3-1 to Newcastle. I don't think... No, I wouldn't go that strong either. I think United are quite solid. Positive. Where's your positivity? What for? Entertainment. Newcastle have gone for a Champions League. Cara, what do you think? Maybe 2-1 or do you think 1-1? Did you watch Leicester, Newcastle? 2-1, Newcastle. I don't know why they kept... Are you going to put that in there? Nice one, James. Thanks for that, Ben.

Scott Older yesterday said on the fan debate that a player had rung him up and asked to go and see him because he'd been critical of him. Has that ever happened to you? It wasn't Bruno, was it? I don't know if you did say it was, no. It was a joke. Yeah, someone in a stranger had gotten in touch with me to try and go easy on a player. Oh, I know who that was, I want to. It was my agent saying go easy on me and this team. I've had three players. Have you? Have you actually spoken to them? I've met two of them.

How did it pan out? It was good. Yeah, very good. I always meet them. I always speak to them. Phil? Where do you go and meet them? More like, I'll meet you in the Costa. A private place. I've not had that. I've not had the phone call from a friend. It's because you're best mates with everyone. It's not I'm best mates with them. It's just that I've got a different vibe with my energy towards her. I don't...

I don't know, sometimes when you're doing your monologue, it kind of gets into a place where because you're so angry, it comes out like you dislike or something. That's what they take. The main thing is they think it's personal, but it's obviously not, and you're just basically speaking at the end of a game. Sometimes you get carried away. Don't you remember when you said to me one time, Raheem Sterling said, what's wrong with me? Yeah, no, to be fair, I was going to say that then, but I thought I'd not bring it back up again. But during the 2016 Euros...

You must have been working for BBC. ITV. ITV at the time. But maybe I think you'd been working for BBC on Match of the Day as well, had you, though? He was working for everyone. I think at that time... Discovery Channel. I don't know, but he said he felt as though you... No, were you doing a written article, a journalistic article? No. No? No. But anyway, he said he felt as though you had it in for him, just a feeling that you had it in for him at the time. No, I mean, never...

I haven't got it for anyone when I'm talking... No one, to the point where I'm not even... I'm not saying stuff that goes personal about them. I'm not doing that. I ain't got no problem with any of them. How does the conversation go, though? Like, you've been criticising my partner? It's usually around a statement you've made or something that... They don't ring me up because of, say, for instance, a continual bar. I don't continually criticise people, but something you've said is probably dug deep and they've gone... They'll give you their explanation, you'll go through it with them and...

always come out, shake hands and... Do you respect them? Yeah, absolutely. There was one with Micah, I think, when it matched the day where I thought that as a... Micah? Yeah, Micah Richards. When he was playing, you mean? Yeah, when he was playing for Villa. Oh, so he rang you? No, he didn't ring me, but I heard, you know when you hear, yeah, Micah's looking for you? I said, yeah.

I said, what do you mean Micah's looking for me like that? You like that? You know what I mean? Like, what's going on? Micah's looking for me for what? Like, because I think I said something about as the captain, I thought he would have been, and he kind of didn't like the fact that I said, he said, what's the captain got to do with it? So that's two players that have

Well, no, because I didn't... Like I said, I never heard from him. You didn't go and speak to him? No, of course not. You just heard that. So when I saw him, I said, what happened? What? What? What? No, to be honest, I wouldn't have done that to him. I'm not going to say it because I wouldn't breach it. It's just one of the... Someone rang me in the first year in punditry. It would blow your mind if this person rang. I was like...

Oh my God, what a paranoia. You think of someone... The player or his agent? A player, no, the player. You think of someone who's been so confident, so like one of the greatest, and then they ring you. Because it's a mask. And it's absolutely a mask. It's like, oh my God. I was almost like... In fact, I've had four. I've just thought of one more. Do you meet your player every week? No, the other one was, to be fair, more of a... The other one was actually a full-back playing at a lower league, a lower club, and I'd done two of their games, and he'd made a mistake in both of those games.

And I just said he's out of position and he felt as though I was picking on him. But I'd only done two of their games and he'd made a mistake in giving a goal away in both those games. Just coincidence completely. But the other one, it blew my mind because you think of someone and think, why would you even care or think about it? I mean, I never rang a pundit or I would never think to do that. You know what I mean? Yeah, it blew my mind, that one. Do you ever have anybody contact you saying, like, thanks for sticking up for us or thanks, like, in a positive way?

no not players you might get that from sort of like sometimes the club might say I thought yeah thank you for helping with that or something but you're not helping them you just might have said something that yeah I'd find it hard to like if I had to do say the England women's team now I would find it really difficult because I'm good friends with a lot

of them. I know, I know, but I think when you're sometimes in and around and you know someone said something and you've been on the ground and you're like, do you know they said that? Yeah, I would find it hard. Whereas yous are like 15 years on, aren't you, without being disrespectful from the current place. Yeah,

But you're not like mates with them. There used to be journalists that I'd pull up when you go with England. Oh, yeah, yeah. Because some of them were, it was terrible. Was that personal, do you think? Yeah, I'd pull journalists. Not with United, with England. Same with England. They were brutal. When you were clear? Yeah, horrible, horrible.

It was horrible. It was bullying. It was completely and utterly... They would literally... The reason... Because you might know one journalist because they were doing something with you and then they would tell you that basically they all sit there the night before the games or when they're having sort of like the drinks in the bars. Let's do this. Let's say they're in Slovakia and you play in England and they're all getting pissed up on a Thursday. Let's fucking do him. There was a bit of that going on with England. You know what I mean? Definitely. So I pulled a couple of them. Yeah. But like...

In the end, you just think to yourself, you mugs. Right. You mugs. If Manchester United win the Europa League, will it be a successful season? Yeah.

Of course it will. It has to be. They've won something. I agree. Of course it will. If they get in the Champions League. There'll be a but, obviously. Right, right. But if they won that, but it didn't mean you're saying because it gets them in the Champions League. You were just about to say that. No, just winning a trophy, but also the impact of that getting into the Champions League. If this year, if that didn't mean they got in the Champions League, it would just be a successful season. I always think if you win a trophy... It's successful because it gets them in the Champions League. If you win a trophy and it is that you're not winning the league, I always think you still keep him in the Champions League. Not that trophy. Not that.

that trophy so you think it's luck not for Man United for other teams winning the trophy I think it'll be there's a plus to it because it gets them in the Champions League but I think the trophy and the competition itself shouldn't be enough for United absolutely not what is it just because it's the Europa League if it was the Champions League and I had a poor season what about that trophy I disagree with it

Do you understand what I'm saying? One second, Gareth. So I want Mr. Tellroy saying that it shouldn't be just the trophy because I'm asking... I think it's more the rewards. Is it the Europa League? If it was, they were playing this badly but they were found in the Champions League and they were where they are in the Champions League where they are in Europe. The way I see it is United... Your question, you said if they win, do you see it as a success? I would say. I'd say yeah. Absolutely.

I would say yes. To lose that many league matches. I think more because of the league position. Yeah, but what I'm asking you, is it because it's the Europa League? If they were in the Champions League and they were playing that poorly in the league, but they were winning the Champions League, would you be happy with it? Of course. Yeah, but it's still a trophy, isn't it? Well, I'll give you a choice. Would you rather win the Europa League or the Champions League?

I'd rather think about it. No, no, no. I'd rather win the Europa League simply because... But Roy, to be fair, the reason I'd say it's successful is because United couldn't win the league this season at the start. We knew that. So they could only win three trophies. They could only win the FA Cup, Carabao Cup.

and the Europa League they could only win three trophies so they've won one of them I'd say I knew they couldn't win the league you knew they couldn't win the league so I would say it's successful because of that now to be fair there is a big but they've sacked a manager and they're 15th 14th in the league or 13th in the league so that's bad but the way you're saying I understand Man United couldn't win the league I know it's bad 13th or 14th OK then no it's not all the teams have been taken forget about I'm not even asking United to compete with Liverpool, Arsenal, Chelsea City all these I think United should be ahead of

Palace and these teams no I agree I agree so how are we going to say that's success what's your bread and butter as a footballer you're in a big club what's your bread and butter to win to win week in week out but we're in the realms here would you rather would you rather finish in the sort of top six or would you rather win the FA Cup we're in the realms of what's more important winning a trophy or your question we can go back to recording your question was would I see that as a successful season no

But it's a great opportunity to get into the Champions League and it's the best way of getting it. But I wouldn't say winning that trophy for Man United is a successful season. So I'm happy to disagree with you. I'd be happy to win that if I'm Man United at the minute. I would. I think it's hard to use the word success when you look at what's happened in the league. I think it's hard to... Plus 13 league games. No, but I...

There's only four trophies to win and they've got a chance of winning one. I'm not about the four trophies. People go compete week in, week out. But keep picking up trophies in your non-successful periods. But Man United are always looking for get-out-of-jail cards when Mourinho won it. I'll get you in the Champions League. But there's no point in Man United being in the Champions League like they were the last two years ago and being rubbish in it. You want to be in it if you think you've got a bit of a chance. I understand smaller clubs get in. You go, listen, if Forest get in next year, you might go, listen, fantastic. But for a club of Man United...

History. But they have to get into the Champions League, Roy, to get the money to be able to then challenge the league. And that's the big plus. I don't think winning the Europe, the big plus is getting the Champions League. Yeah. Where did Man United finish when they won the FA Cup? Last year. Were they eighth last year? Eighth. See, so it's kind of like you can go, it's all right, but I do think that 13th, 14th is like terrible. Sorry. It's what, sorry? It's terrible. It's terrible. It's not terrible if you've got a trophy. It's not good. Oh,

I would take Arsenal now. If Arsenal had that season with the fact that everybody's going on about our manager not winning, if we could win the Europa League, I'd take it. Are you going to win the Champions League this year? Well, with a 14th league position, would you take it? You take it because at the end of the day, the fans would be happy with something, wouldn't they? I don't know how the Man United fans would feel. It'd be massive for Arsenal. Fans would be happy to win that. To Mikel Arteta to win the Champions League would be massive. Oh, yeah. Champions League's another ball game, isn't it? He's crying his eyes out.

Right. He'll be on the bus with them, won't he? He'll be on the bus. I don't think they'll be on a bus. Because they all love him. All the players love him. No, they don't. Not the ones I contacted. He added that slide. He added that slide. Same question for Tottenham. If Tottenham were to win the Europa League, would it be a successful season? Or be amazing? And second part to that question is, will Ange Postacoglu keep his job if they win the Europa League?

We know that Ruben Hamelin will keep his job, winning it or not, we know that, but will Hans Postakoglu? I think he'll keep it if they win it. You think he'll keep it if they win it? You know what, it seems very tough. That seems like a tough one because I'd like him to do it, not just because he said that he always gets something, maybe gets something in his second year, but he's close to doing it. But when you look at...

The managers, if he does get moved on, when you look at the managers that they have, they've all gone on to do stuff. So it can't be him. He needs, I think he needs a little bit more from upstairs, from them. He needs more. Whether he's good at it, two things can be right. He can be like, listen, he's not good enough and this and that. But at the same stage, they've got to be backing their managers more because too many of their managers have gone on to be successful. Yeah.

They've not at one stage stopped and said, right, let's back this guy, which they should have done with Pochettino when they went in the Champions League and they finished second. They should have backed that guy then. But don't they always say they do back their managers? Haven't they got a structure at the club? So when a manager, surely when a manager just talks with these clubs before they take the job, they must have an idea of what kind of money is available. Yeah, but every single manager, Roy, has got a gripe with...

this not happening and that not happening because when they get in the door Roy where's what's Spurs budget to all the other teams you reckon like in terms I don't know the exact thing but what I do know is Spurs run sustainably so they spend about 45% of their overall revenue on wages which is the right percentage they're actually doing it right if everyone else was doing that but they're all not of course like earlier taking the gamble team take gamble they do do it

but then obviously you could argue for Spurs fans they're not investing in the team as much as the other clubs which obviously leaves them short. But how much should they spend on it? Spurs' wage bill compared to Liverpool's or City's will be... Have you got it on there, someone? It'd be top half, wouldn't it?

Do you not think it'd be top half? Oh, the Tottenham's is top half. Yeah. Definitely. But it's not at the levels to get to where they need to, you know, to get to... Have you been to Spurs training ground? Yeah. Oh, my God, it's amazing. It's like a spa session, isn't it? We used to train there with England. Yeah, it's really nice. Food, amazing. You waiting for an answer? Yeah, I'm waiting for the budget for...

Because in respect of a club... Tottenham are seventh in the league budget. Right. Aren't they the best-run club, Gal? They're the best-run financially, also business-wise. From a sustainability point of view, yeah. He operates it like a business, to be fair. Well, they've got the American football, they've got all the concerts. Who are you? Tottenham.

oh sorry he's talking sorry he just stopped sorry Villa spend more on wages than Tottenham that's the sort of thing that Tottenham fans wouldn't be happy about well of course not Tottenham they've got unbelievable training ground unbelievable ground and then the team Villa will be under pressure to get in that Champions League next year

Choco United and Spurs and Villa have spent big wages to get in a championship. And then Villa have got to try and keep Asensio, they've got to try and keep Rashford, it's going to be brilliant. Do you still think Rashford is back to his

I still think he's got a lot to do. You know what, Emery said some nice things about him. I know he did. Well, he's not going to say bad things about him. Are we going there now? No, no, no. It's not a case of that. I just think that it's something that he needs and it's having a good time for him and it seems to be working. We can't go into it deeper than that. When he left, I thought he's going to a better team. Yeah.

a better run club at this moment in time and a better manager because obviously Unai Emery is one of the best in Europe so it was the right move for him what happens at the end of the season would be interesting a lot will happen between now and the end of the season that's when you can look back and go they got over the line and that or they finished up Marcus scored another 4 or 5 important goals then you'd have a look I still think it's too early to be saying oh he's the answer they've got to buy him or he's proved everyone wrong I still think he's what about the fact that Emery sees him on a daily basis and he's

He's seizing them. Yeah, yeah. Because that's what he's going to do. And what did he say to the manager? He said, there's more to come from him. Yes. That's my point. I think he's just gone there and feels appreciated and that gives you just such a lift, doesn't it? I think people appreciate him there. Right. Right, we're finished. We're done. You've appreciated that. Brilliant. Great ending. Oh, lovely. Great ending, right.

I'm being told it was a brilliant episode, but Barry says that every week. Yeah, but Barry's nice. Barry's a really nice guy. Oh, sorry. You're always sorry. Every week, the same thing. I'm sorry.

Now at Verizon, we have some big news for your peace of mind. For all our customers, existing and new, we're locking in low prices for three years guaranteed on MyPlan and MyHome. That's future you peace of mind. And everyone can save on a brand new phone on MyPlan when you trade in any phone from one of our top brands. That's new phone peace of mind. Because at Verizon, whether you're already a customer or you're just joining us,

We got you. Visit Verizon today. Price guarantee applies to then current base monthly rate. Additional terms and conditions apply for all offers. Want a workout that actually works? Hydro delivers a full body workout that hits 86% of your muscles in just 20 minutes. Rowing with Hydro combines strength and cardio. With thousands of workouts led by Olympians in breathtaking locations.

No wonder 9 out of 10 members are still active one year later. Try Hydro risk-free at hydro.com and use code ROW to save up to $475 off your Hydro Pro Rower. That's H-Y-D-R-O-W dot com. Code ROW.

To remind you that 60% of sales on Amazon come from independent sellers, here's Tracy from Lilies of Charleston. Hi, y'all. We make barbecue sauce, hot sauce, and specialty popcorn. They get help from Amazon to grow their small business faster. They handle all our shipping and logistics, which is a big help. All on it up. Have a great day, Tracy. Hot stuff, Tracy. Ooh, honey. Shop small business on Amazon.

Thanks for listening and thanks to our partner Skybet. If you want more, please subscribe and you won't miss an episode.