33.01 - MU Podcast - Brothers of the Shadows
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Welcome to Mysterious Universe, season 33, episode 1. Coming up on the show, we've got the UFO resource thieves, the side doors of Freemasonry, and the Brothers of the Shadows. I'm

I'm your host, Benjamin Grundy. Joining me is Aaron Wright. Welcome to 2025. We're back. We are back for our final season, or final year, I should say. Not season. Final year of Mysterious Universe as the incarnation that it is. Yep, 2025 is the last year. Take a nice stretch and just slide it on out. How was your break? Very boring. I didn't go anywhere. I didn't do anything. How was yours? It was awesome. You know what was different this year is we didn't get rain every day. Yeah.

every single day, which was the last two years. So we went to the beach three or four times. We went to the Gold Coast and hung out at a five-star resort. It was awesome. I had a great break. Yeah, the way it's supposed to be. The only bad thing that happened is I decided to give up coffee and go caffeine-free. I thought I'm going to go caffeine-free and just get off the brew.

And it was just hell. Like the usual migraines, you get the headaches for a couple of days. And I've gone off coffee before and, you know, you go through a couple of days of headaches and then you're fine. This was like two to three days of migraines and then seven days of the worst back pain I've ever had in my life. Really? Just relentless throbbing, like sciatic pain as well, going down the back of my thighs and

And I thought, how long is this going to go for? And I had to just, I was waking up at 3 a.m. from the pain every single night. And so I started searching, like, what's this connection between back pain and caffeine? The only thing I found was some Reddit thread from five years ago with someone else going, what's the deal with caffeine and back pain? When is this going to end?

And just every couple of months, someone else would log into that thread and go, yeah, me too. What is going on? So it must be to do with the caffeine then, right? It's not any other component of the coffee that's causing that. It's obviously the caffeine, but there was no consensus on what was doing it. Some people said it was your nerves, your nerve endings doing something. Because the reason you get headaches when you stop drinking caffeine is because when you're on the caffeine, all the blood vessels in your brain shrink.

And when you stop the caffeine, they get flooded with blood, they expand, and that's what causes the headaches. Then you just reach an equilibrium. But yeah, no one was 100% sure on what was going on with the back pain. I think what was happening is I just had inflammation in my back and my sciatic nerve was being like

pummeled anyway, but the caffeine was masking the inflammation. Oh, I mean, that's a possibility. So as soon as I stopped, it was just like, hello, wake up call. This is really what's going on in your body. But tell me more about, because you said after that you had kind of gotten through the worst of it, that you were having weird lucid dreams and like psychedelic, like what experiences? Not psychedelic, but just vivid,

Not lucid, but vivid, vivid dreams for the first time in years. Really? It's like for some reason for me, caffeine removes that.

I just wake up like a robot and try and get my brew and start the day. But once I got off the caffeine, the dreams came back. But when you hear stories like that, and because only today actually I was reading about the history of people that have had influence through dreams where it hasn't just influenced them, but it's actually influenced the course of history. There was one particular guy who I can't recall off the top of my head, but he was some type of metallurgist and he was trying to develop a way of copper imprinting.

and he couldn't work out a way to get it to actually the final chemical step to work. And he has this dream where his deceased brother appears to him. He's like, well, the chemical formula is this and gives him the whole process, right? He wakes up. The technology technically was 100 years ahead of what it should have been.

Oh, really? A hundred years ahead. And he claims that he got it from a dream. So what you're talking about, I wonder how many of us are kind of suppressed now because of just our mass intake of caffeine. Yeah, everyone's caffeinated. Of course we are, because we live in, it's like what Graham Hancock describes as being like this racy kind of society where some drugs are allowed, such as the drugs that keep us pepped up like caffeine, while other things such as hallucinogenics are frowned upon. But it's like,

How much of us or how many of us are missing out on potential important information that could come through from these unusual sources that's being suppressed chemically? Well, Graham Hancock's spoken about this and the way that our society runs. It's very materialistic and it's this big speedy machine. Everything's geared towards speed and efficiency. So even the drugs we take, caffeine,

you know, amphetamines and things like that make us faster, more attuned, more focused. That's what we want. But that's not the natural state of a human being, is it? To be 100% geared up for maximum efficiency and performance all the time is to step back from it. It's not even dreams. How often do you think people have shower moments or, you know, they're going for a run and they have a sudden epiphany? It's like those states, those flow states, those states of relaxation. In fact, today I was reading through, it was a book by

by Annie Besant and C.W. Ledbetter about thought forms, about this manifestation of thought forms. What was really fascinating about it is that it went through a series of emotions. I don't know the techniques that they used, but I think they used some type of psychic or some form of psychic photography. I don't know exactly what it was. But to film people

and captured these thought forms that came out of their body when they had certain emotions. So there was one of where, and a lot of them were like anger. Anger was a really big one where they would psychically look at people that would manifest anger out of their aura. Or the entity was green. No, yeah, you're right. You're close. It would actually come out as like this cloud, like this gray kind of cloud. And from the cloud would burst forth like these red spikes.

Like these red spikes came and that was like this anger of where a man had attacked some woman at a train station. And that thought form actually manifest that action manifested. But my point is, is that while they focus on those sorts of things and you're right, jealousy came up and jealousy came up as like this green kind of off green snake thing.

funnily enough, that manifested out of this cloud. But the more relaxed and intriguing forms and the very complex forms, these thought form images that were being captured, came when people were meditating. So when they meditated, you got these complex geometric kind of forms of...

Almost you could call them beauty. Like an elaborate snowflake or something. Very much so. Crystal. Yeah, and it came from this state of relaxation as opposed to a state of heightened emotion. So I think there's something to it. So maybe, yeah, I'm going to try coming off caffeine. I'm not going to do it while I'm recording.

Because I feel like that's a very foolish thing to do. The benefit of going through all that pain and being woken up at 3 a.m. is I had nothing to do. So I started meditating again really early, like getting up at 3, 4, 5 and just doing Qigong or doing meditation. And.

And it kind of, it was really good. It's like it was meant to happen. I had to go through that suffering. But in this world, you're totally right, of it being oriented towards a fast paced society, people can't afford to do that. They can't afford to come on. I ended up booking a massage to get rid of some of the pain because it was, a lot of it was hips. Yeah. And there's that, is it the piriformis or something peri that pushes against your sciatic nerve? So I booked in this really expensive place in Noosa.

And I was hoping to get like a young boxing blonde to do the massage. That's not the point of going for a massage. I know, but if I'm going to have someone touch me, it might as well be someone attractive, right? But instead, I got this 60-year-old lady walks out.

And she was amazing. It was like the best massage I've ever had. No, it serves you right, though. I've never forgotten the story you told me of where you went to some massage place in Sydney and it was some Thai place and you're in there and she's doing something on you and then all of a sudden you feel one hand and then a second hand and then a third hand. Oh my God!

I don't remember that story. Where did you pull that story from? You told me you were freaked out because you're like, and you didn't want to spin around because you were like, where's the third haircut? I think there was another lady that was helping her out because it was like a really elaborate move or something. Ha ha ha!

No, dude, the worst massage story is when I went with my wife, we were in Thailand and we went to one of those expensive resort massage, like a couple's massage. Yeah. And the first thing was, it was like a lady boy at the counter. I was like, Oh, okay. What's this place about? But then when we, we booked in, uh,

They take you to this nice area where it's like running water and a waterfall and everything. And they say, okay, you need to put these on. They just threw us this cloth hits me in the face, this black cloth. And I pull it open and it's this fucking G-string, right? But it's fishnet. It's like this fishnet G-string. And they're like, no, this is what you have to wear if you want to get the massage. So I put on this fishnet.

I put it on. My wife was just laughing the whole time. And I think the ladies doing the massage thought it was hilarious as well. Because I think it's like... Did you go to a women's only place and then they let you in? Well, I don't know. I mean, it was for couples. So it had to be for men. Maybe it's for like smaller men. I don't know. But it was this tiny little thing. Like this tiny little string. Yeah, that's not awkward at all. And that was a pummel, that massage. Well, that's good news. Well, what do you got coming up for this show? Oh, yeah, that's right. Content. Content.

What have I got coming up on this show? We're going to be talking about Frederick Dodson, Secret Societies and Spiritual Warfare. And it's funny you mentioned the thought forms in a Leadbetter because Leadbetter comes up on this episode. I'm going to be talking about some of the practices that Secret Societies practice.

in their spiritual warfare. Dodson comes up with a bit of a reveal and we've covered Dodson's books over the years. You might remember he- High German guy. Yeah, he wrote this really interesting one about how high German is related to, what was it? Ancient-

Mayan. Ancient Mayan was basically high German. He came up with this really fascinating idea. And he's written a bunch of books on alternate dimensions and going into altered states of consciousness and removing possessing entities. He's a really versatile writer in the fields that we cover. But he had a bit of a reveal in that he's a Freemason or was a Freemason for a very long time. In fact, he's a Freemason.

That's him. I think this was in 2004. He became the head of a lodge. I don't know where this is. Somewhere in America, I believe. But he was actually the head of the lodge. Given the topics he writes, I mean, I was surprised, but given the topics he talks about,

It's actually not that surprising. So yeah, season 33, Freemason episode. Right, nice little link there. Secret societies. Why not? What have you got coming up? Well, actually, it was rather a coincidence. There was this weird ufological cloud sighting that occurred, which I'll go into the plus extension later.

And look, it's nothing that outrageous. It's just a typical strange lenticular cloud and a bunch of people have just been like, oh my God, it's a UFO. Very boomer-esque in the comments that are being made about it. Yeah, it appeared in the Daily Mail. Whoa, wow, what a cloud. This really made the news? Yeah, so you can see, you know, people are saying, beam me up, Scotty. One comment was, oh my God. But...

The reason why I mention it is because it reminded me of an experience that Christopher O'Brien described in his book, Enter the Valley. So I'm going to go into some of the strange experiences of UFOs associated with strange cloud activity, which then links into a whole series of encounters of UFOs stealing resources, whether it's water, power, you know, other resources. There seems to be a wide and varied history of this, including causing blackouts. So we'll get into that towards the end of the show.

Welcome back. Thank you. Good to be back. Welcome back to the cloud UFO stuff, like it's hot on the heels of the cutting edge news. It's very cutting edge. What about the drones, Aaron? Aren't you doing an update on the drones? No, because I was right, as I was last time when I told you that the drone stuff would just suddenly disappear from the media. And look what happens. It's always, what was it again? Four by two. Four sources of media for two weeks. It distracts us and then we move on.

Every single time. It's all a big distraction, isn't it? Everything's a distraction. Let's go into this new book from Dodson, Secret Societies and Spiritual Warfare. He asks, well, why is it relevant that he was a Freemason? And obviously Freemasons stand accused of secretly running the world. I feel like that's a bit of a early 2000s thing.

That's not really a thing anymore. Even the 90s. No one today thinks that Freemasons run the world. No, it's the deep state now. Yeah, that's taken the place of the Freemasons. But he said, you know, most discussions on secret societies first turned to Freemasons. Yes, that's probably true.

He says, if you're smart, you'll understand that this is a sign that Freemasons are not the ones secretly running the world. In fact, he says, whatever everybody thinks about something is usually wrong, especially about something secret, something hidden. He said, I assert that Freemasonry is actually used to camouflage hundreds of other secret societies. Yeah, that makes sense. Okay. So that's interesting. And that,

goes into the whole outer circle, inner core idea of these occult groups we've been talking about over the years. That there is this front-facing, public-facing outer circle that is recruited from for the inner circle. Right. And this outer circle isn't even aware of the inner circle necessarily and certainly has no idea of what they're up to. He says, I was a Freemason for a little less than a decade in 2014. That was the last time I set foot in a lodge.

He says, I'm writing this book. Ten years later, he said, my first years in Freemasonry were nothing like the conspiracy books. Because he says at the start, he was big on the alternative reading. And this was back before the internet days. He actually ran this really in-depth mailing list or book mailing list for esoteric books and hard to find occult books. So he very much understood the

the world of conspiracy in terms of who's running things behind the scenes. And he actually entered Freemasonry hoping to find some answers. And he said, there's no answers going on in Freemasonry. It's just a boys club. He says it was where you would go and hang out with your buddies. You know, you'd have drinks, you'd have games. And that was it. There wasn't any secret files or unlocking any mystery. There was nothing like that.

Even when he spoke to other people who were involved for years, they said, for me, it's a way to get away from my wife and kids for a few hours, catch up with my buddies. Another one said, if it's connected to charity, all the better because they do a lot of donations. Well, that's what they told him. He said, I made good friends among the Masons, but even so, Freemasonry seemed spiritually empty to me.

He said, I did not learn anything I didn't already know. Many of the so-called secrets are not that arcane. They can easily be found on the internet. Don't you find that in itself, though, to be a bit strange? Why would you go to the Freemasons seeking spiritual guidance? I'd never even thought that the Freemasons would have been about spirit. I mean, I understand occult knowledge, but not so much as spiritual. Well, I guess occult knowledge is under that umbrella. I suppose so. Of spiritual knowledge. But eventually, as we can see from the photo here, he became the master of the lodge and

And he thought that this would give him some power to shed light on some of these deeper questions about the inner workings of the group. Nope. And the first thing he did was he asked to gain access to the records that showed where the charity money went because they would do a lot of donations and part of their activities would be going to the community and getting donations. And supposedly he always understood that it went to a children's charity.

But it was never quite specified which children's charity. And he never questioned it. But not, but I don't know, like occult societies and children's groups immediately make you go...

Well, he went to the treasurer who had been there for a very long time and asked, and this guy always had an excuse. It was always like, oh, I can't remember the website right now. I'll get back to you later with the info. And he never got back to him. Or I'm not entirely sure if we're still supporting that charity. Let me look into it. And he'd just never get back to him. He was always stonewalled by this guy. And he says, here I am, the boss of this Freemason Lodge, and people are still keeping secrets from me.

He said, I experienced this lack of transparency on many occasions. He said it was one of the reasons he became bored with Freemasonry. He just couldn't get anywhere. He said, I knew that the charity money of our lodge went to an organization that helps disabled children. Or I thought I knew. Disabled or disable?

He says disabled. Oh, okay. Sorry, I thought you said disabled. Like they're injured children? No, no, disabled. He said, when I suggested we visit this organization, again, I was stonewalled. When I wanted to know the exact name of this organization, I was stonewalled. He said, when I wished to find new charities to send money to, I was prevented. And he said, I learned what it's like to be voted into a position of power and not have any power at all. So that would suggest to me that it was a front?

For money laundering or something? Yeah. Something similar? The obvious answer is all the old guys were just keeping the money for themselves. They were just embezzling it, right? But the other idea is that, again, the front-facing Freemasonry organization is simply the outer shell of

around some inner core group. And the money is going to another group that he's not aware of. He's not a part of, he's not a member of. Where would they be getting the money from though? It's not like just they would have what people... Oh, they do charity drives and community events and things like that. And the members would donate as well.

And he then talks about, so he never quite gets to the bottom of that. And this is the theme with Dodson I've noticed with a lot of his books where he'll set up some intriguing premise and then never, never dive into it, like never give you an answer. And that's the case with the funding.

But it does raise an interesting question. But then he talks about the vibe of Freemasonry. He says there's a spiritual smell to it. What does he mean by that? Well, he says, ever since I've been a Freemason, I can usually tell if someone else is a Freemason. He says, I can tell that a Masonic building is a Masonic building before I see any evidence of it, before I see a sign or a plaque or anything.

Does it smell of sulfur? Oh, he says, I can feel Freemasonry. And if you're aware of Dodson's work, he has claimed that he has psychic abilities. He can see things that other people can't see. He's had astral travel experiences, out-of-body experiences, all those sort of things. He says it's a vibe. It's a spiritual smell. It almost takes one to know one. And he gives this example of he was visiting New Zealand. He ended up living there for a while.

And he drove past this building one day and the windows were boarded up and he's like, that's a lodge. That's absolutely a lodge. And he just had this feeling. Again, it's like a spiritual smell. It's like a vibe you pick up. And this extended as well. Eventually he found out that actually was the Masonic Lodge. And eventually when he moved to New Zealand, he made friends with this local guy. And he said, as soon as he met the guy, he's like,

this guy's in a lodge. I can tell he's a Freemason. And they became friends. Eventually, this guy invited him over for dinner. And as soon as he got into this guy's house, he saw the Masonic symbol hanging on the wall above the couch. And he's like, I knew it. Again, it's just this feeling. There's something about maybe the energy field or just the vibe that this person gives off, which I think is an interesting concept. If you get involved in a particular group,

what's imprinted on your energy field, your psyche, your very being. Oh, you can definitely pick up something. That others can pick up on. You know, it extends into the idea of egregores as well, which is the idea of these things

uh, creations, these creations from this group energies, these group focuses, it creates entities that can influence and imprint on someone's psyche. This goes back to what I was reading from Ledbetter and Besant. And that was this idea that when we talk about topic forms and tulpas, um, the reality is like for the most part of the very, um,

I guess, fundamental level of them. People think it's, oh, like the Alexander David Neal, the manifestation of an actual external entity that is autonomous and can behave in a certain fashion. But Besant and Ledbetter were describing that, no, there's a couple of forms. And one of the forms is the actual, like an astral thought, which is

takes form within your auric field. And other people that are sensitive can pick up on that. So it's not necessarily external to you, even though it might be in your auric field.

other people are sensitive to that and might be able to see that. So it's like, it goes beyond you just simply projecting something out of your body. You also project something that's into your spiritual being. And I think most of us, we can sort of pick up these things, but it's just a gut feeling. Yes. Yeah, I think there's a sixth sense that we all have. Like you just know when someone's just a little bit, there's a little bit off or there's something. Yeah, you know when someone's

A person you should avoid. Just won't gel with them. And there's lots of signs. Yeah. But sometimes it's just a gut feeling. Yeah. And you can also pick up when someone's, I think, a Mormon, you can kind of pick that up, or a Christian. Sometimes you can kind of pick that up. Maybe it's external signs like a dress or... Well, I would say, yeah, dress and demeanor would probably do that and then behavior.

You could probably pick that up with a multitude of people in different religions. But then are you suggesting that there's something more to that? There's like a non-physical. Yeah, there's something metaphysical that's on the person that you're also picking up. That's what causes the gut feelings. But he then starts to talk about the side doors, the side doors of Freemasonry. He said one rainy day, it was eight years he had been in this lodge. He said, I was attending a Scottish Rite meeting. I'd just been initiated into the 18th degree, he said.

And meetings at the Scottish Rite House were much more philosophical than his lodge. He said on that day, a Freemason of high degree shocked me. He approached me, Dodson said, and this guy came up to him and said, now in Freemasonry, there are doors. You go through the doors and they take you up a staircase. Each step is a degree. And this man, he sort of paused to make sure that Dodson was paying attention, to make sure that he was taking this in.

And he said, but in Freemasonry, there are also side doors that nobody knows about. Now, his demeanor, Dodson said, was of someone sharing something important. This was a momentous moment in this conversation. He says, you know about them now because I'm telling you. This is privileged information. Do you understand? So these are like internal recruiters.

That, you know, bring people into the inner circle, I'm assuming. That's the idea. And Dodson's like, okay, yep. This man says these side doors lead to other adventures outside of Freemasonry, but you can only enter them through Freemasonry. It's a whole different organization, but they limit their recruitment to the Freemasons. So Dodson asks, okay, are you a member of this organization? He says, yes. Why are you sharing this with me?

Because I have permission to, he says. I was asked to inquire whether you're interested in joining. So Dodson asks the obvious question, what's the organization? So this guy says, well, he wouldn't reveal it, surely. He does reveal it. He's like, Knights Templar. Pulls out his sword, reveals he's like, pulls his shirt back and there's just a Templar cross. No, he claims they're the Knights Templar. And when Dodson heard this,

He was like, he was already getting sick of Freemasonry because it was like a lot of commitments. You got to go do this and then hang out with these guys and you got to go to this lodge and do this. And a lot of it was just like old men getting together and drinking and then there was some charity work. He's just getting sick of it. Right. And he thought that, okay, so this is just another version of that. This is just...

more like get togethers, drinking parties. And he basically declined the information. He said, this was more time than I wanted to spend. I'd already given up on Freemasonry in my heart. I'd decided it wasn't my path. And he said, today he understands that the reality of what this guy was offering was very different to his concept of it.

that it was extremely, extremely removed from the everyday happenings of your basic Freemasonry lodge. He said, this concept of side doors, is it nefarious? Well, he said, apparently it can be. Only a few select members are told. He said, I related this to two Mason buddies of mine and they told me they'd never heard of it. He gives another anecdote. He said on another occasion, a veteran Freemason said this to him.

He said, all the interesting stuff takes place in irregular Freemasonry. Regular Freemasonry is a facade. In reality, regular and irregular Freemasonry are two sides of a coin. One is open, one is hidden. And the next anecdote he gives that kind of underlies this is he was visiting the Scottish Rite Temple. This was in Santa Fe in New Mexico.

And he arrived unannounced. He was just in town, basically a tourist and thought, okay, there's the lodge. I can smell it. I can know it's there. I'll go take a look. He says there was only two people in there and they were acting like panicked that he was there. They were perplexed. Like, who is this guy? Why are you here? What are you doing? And he's just like, I just want to have a walk around. I'm like a brother in, you know, the lodge. I just want to have a look around.

And they locked him out and said he needed to wait while they made a phone call. He said he waited for 10 minutes outside before they let him in. Like they were scrambling to verify who he was or do something before they let him in. So adding an element though of secrecy to this. Yeah, he's like, what are they hiding? This is weird. He's never experienced this before because usually they're like, hey, come in, have a drink. Yeah.

This is obviously a higher level site. Something different. So he, eventually they let him in after 10 minutes and they say, look, you can walk the staircase of our lodge, but don't go to the last floor and don't enter any of the rooms. It's like, no problem. I'll have a look at the stairs. Which means I've got to walk into every room I can. So he walks up the staircase and

And he says it was beautiful, like several floors up. There were these sculptures lining the walls up the staircase and stained glass all the way up. So the light was shining through. And he says, say what you will about Freemasonry. They have pretty amazing aesthetics. It was quite beautiful. But anyway, he got to one of these levels and one of the doors to a room on one of these upper floors was slightly ajar. And so he looks inside and he sees this.

Bunks? He sees... Now, this image doesn't represent it. This is a very... It's an AI image. Mid-journey version. But he said there were hundreds, hundreds of children's bunk beds in this room. Oh, this is not good. And it was... Yeah, immediately he's like, this is creepy. His conspiracy mind...

kicked into gear. Because he says earlier that once he got involved with the Freemasonry, he stopped being a conspiracy theorist. Like he could see that, okay, all these guys are just normal Joes. Like there's nothing weird going on here. It wasn't until after he, in these latter years that he saw some weird stuff, had some weird conversations that he started to think maybe there is something going on here beneath the surface. So he sees this room, it's full of hundreds of children's bunks. And despite years of normalcy, he's like,

My conspiracy mind hadn't died and it came roaring back. He's like, maybe it's for charity work. But why hundreds? Why would you need so many? He says all the beds were children sized. What about the rest of the family? Was it for orphans? He says, I don't know. And I never found out. Which again is another Dodson specialty. Hang on. He wanders into a place with hundreds of kids' bunk beds with an occult organization. And he's just like, okay.

Well, even though he was told not to, he goes to the top floor, the very top floor, and there was this large room. And at the far end of the room, there was this large oven built into the wall. He said there were dead ravens and a dead charred but feathered chicken lying amongst the charcoal. He says it was eerie. I got chills looking at it. Whatever they did with this chicken, it wasn't eating it. It wasn't consuming. It wasn't eating. But it was an oven. Yeah, some weird oven built into the wall.

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So as soon as he sees this, it's like this creepy moment where he... Is it an incinerator or an oven? Yeah, that's what I was thinking. But he says it's an oven. He hears this, can I help you behind him?

I actually asked you not to go to the top floor. And he turns around. It's one of these weird guys from the entryway. He's like, oh, is this the top floor? Sorry, I didn't know. You know, just feigning ignorance. And this guy says, let me show you our theater. Eager to get him out of the room. You've seen our pepper shakers, haven't you? Yeah, it's a little bit like that. And he said...

Christians frequently accuse Freemasonry of being closeted Satanists or Freemasons of being closeted Satanists. But he said, I've dismissed this charge most of the time. But at other times, I'm like, what?

Maybe there is something to that. He says, some places I have visited have a strange feel about them. While I never witnessed the satanic within Freemasonry, he said, I sometimes felt the aftermath of something evil. Again, that sense, that spiritual smell, that feeling, that vibe. He said, some rooms and places felt forlorn, dejected, gloomy, like something evil had taken place. It sounds like, and it's only just occurred to me, that Dodson is a psychometrist. Yeah, he is picking up on these energies.

And he said he also felt this one day at his own lodge. And he asked one of the guys there, he's like, was there people in here before us? Because they had come in like in the lunchtime or something. And whoever was in charge of that particular point said, oh, yes, one of the other groups came in and we rented the hall out to them. And he's like, what other groups? And this guy just said, oh, it's one of the, you know.

unorthodox Freemason groups and just left it at that. So his prediction that was correct, not prediction, but his sense was correct. Yeah. And other people, other new recruits in this, in this group were like, it's so stuffy in here. What's going on? Can we open up the windows? And of course in Masonic lodges, apparently the windows are boarded up for some, like, this is a thing they board up their windows.

Come to think of it, I've seen Masonic lodges across Sydney and I've actually noticed, and I've always thought that they were like abandoned. No, they look abandoned, but they're not. That's just their thing. They board up the windows. Not all of them, but I have noticed that. They have bars on them. Yeah. They're all boarded up. Yeah. And so the other guys- Like grids, like wire grids. Yeah. So he had detected that something wrong had taken place and it was just this oppressive feeling that was still in the room. Yeah.

And then the other guys with perhaps less spiritual insight were like, it's stuffy. It's stuffy. Let's open up a window. So he's interpreting it psychically, but they're interpreting it in a physical sense. That's right. Yeah. So he said, after a decade, I ended my time in Freemasonry. I still didn't know what Freemasonry was, what its purpose was or where it was going. He never got an answer to...

That room full of children's bunk beds or the oven in the wall or anything. He never really got any answers. But he says, from all I know by now, I offer this. There is an outer and an inner Freemasonry.

a Freemasonry for normies and a Freemasonry for the elite. I was a member of the normies club where nothing mysterious, nefarious, or even remotely exciting ever happened. Some of this outer Freemasonry is positive, has a positive effect on their members. There's friendship, reciting of moral teachings, philosophical exchange, but the inner Freemasonry is found either in the highest degrees or by recruitment through side doors.

But he points out that obviously this recruitment must be waning because these outer groups, this outer circle is in massive decline. Unless they're recruiting through other sources now. Yeah. So that's another idea which he doesn't explore. But he says, today I'm back in terms of conspiracy. Conspiracy is real, he said, even more than I thought as a youngster.

He says, I didn't find evidence of a conspiracy in Freemasonry, but I found it elsewhere. He says, real secret societies aren't even known by name. No. They are secret. They don't advertise their presence. You don't know who they are. You don't know where they meet, what their agenda is. A real secret society doesn't exist in the eyes of the public. So he talks about some experiences where this has become apparent to him that these people

They exist. They don't have a name that you would know. And it's not in the way that you would think. He talks about positive secret societies. So one of them occurred in 2003. He was invited to teach the CEO of this large PR company and he traveled to this beautiful place in Graz in Austria. And one day he said he went for a walk with this guy on their property.

And there was a group of people under this like white awning outside enjoying drinks and talking. And he recognized one of them. One of them was a celebrity from German television. And he said to this guy, he's like, oh, that's, you know, so-and-so from blah, blah, blah on TV. And this, this guy says to him, oh, there's a lot of influential people here. And he started to name business people, entrepreneurs, celebrities, some people he knew, some he didn't.

And this guy says to him, nobody knows they're all guests in my house today. And he then goes on to explain that they are part of a secret society that he personally founded 20 years ago. And their agenda was to counteract fake knowledge, fake news, fake knowledge. So it's like, okay, well, what does that mean exactly? He referenced their struggle against big pharma, mainstream media,

energy companies and fake food and things like that. Oh, I like them already. Yeah. This was all the way back in 2003, which I find kind of amazing that something like that was going on in 2003. This is before these ideas were mainstream. And Dodson's like, why are you telling me? If your group's secret, why are you telling me this? He says, because you are Mr. Dodson.

That's rather ambiguous. And Dodson said he kind of laughed at this as if he knew what the guy was talking about. And then they just changed the subject and walked off in a different direction. And again, it's like classic Dodson. He's like, I still don't know what that guy was talking about. Had he published works at that point and they thought that he could disseminate information? Yeah, maybe he had some books out or...

He was talking about spiritual ideas they agreed with or something, but he didn't join their group. He says, we left that topic and never came up again, but now decades later, the issues that they were fighting for have become mainstream.

You know, like having Kennedy involved in the Trump administration is an example. Like, make America healthy again. Well, also, even, you know, many people are waking up to mainstream media on both sides of the political spectrum that are lying to everyone. Yeah, like in 2003, there was still a lot of trust in the mainstream media. Yeah, absolutely there was. So those guys were ahead of their time. He said then in 2021, he got another glimpse of a secretly operating group. He had just moved to Florida and...

That was the only place in the world at the time that didn't have COVID lockdowns, you know, apart from Sweden. And he said through a series of coincidences, which he doesn't elaborate on, he was invited to join this prayer group. And he's like, okay, I'll go along. World needs a bit of prayer right now. But when he got there, he realized they didn't pray for the usual things people pray for.

The rules of membership were that all prayers were for specific political outcomes. He said, I had to leave my phone outside and swear that I would tell no one about this group, not even Christians, no people in the church, people who might be interested in prayer, et cetera. I couldn't tell them about it. He said all prayers involved specific bills being passed, specific decisions being made that favored certain politicians and their policies.

He said, I was impressed at how detailed and specific the prayed for outcomes were. It was intention manifestation at its finest. They verbally exercised a number of evils and perceived evils of the political and social world. One of the attendees he spoke to even claimed that specific covens were casting spells that they needed to counteract. Well, we heard this in the most recent election.

I mean, I know it was only Reddit covens, but yeah, but there were people that were allegedly doing that against Trump. Yeah. I've heard this, not even the latest election. This is going back. Yeah, you're right. 2016. Like these covens saying they're casting spells to stop Trump. So it's funny because there's, there's groups on the other side, it appears that are countering it, trying to counter that, but they're just secret about it. They don't tell anyone about it. I find that amazing. That's kind of hilarious. Yeah.

He said the friend who actually brought him into this secret prayer group then got in a lot of trouble for bringing Dodson in because Dodson hadn't been vetted. He's an outsider. He hadn't been vetted. You know, they got to check you out before you get into this. Isn't that amazing? I wonder how many people there is. Like if this is filling out this church or wherever it was.

It must be a lot of people involved. It reminds me of the books that Lynn McTaggart's written over the years. Can't remember any of the names of them at the moment, but if you look up Lynn McTaggart, she's been doing this, well, in terms of scientific experiments, testing what effect... Remote viewing as well, wasn't she?

No, it was mainly the effect of focused. Oh, there's a prayer. It's focused concentration and trying to manipulate certain things. So they even got groups together and tried to affect world affairs. They were doing things in the Middle East and trying to change a drought in Africa or something. And according to her, and I'll link to some of the books in the show notes, but she claimed success. And they were doing little experiments like trying to change the rate of growth of seedlings and things like that.

Uh, another secret society he came across was, he said many years ago, a police officer I was coaching revealed to me that he was a member of a secret society of police officers. Now he needed to reveal it to Dodson, he claims, because he needed coaching on a bunch of problems he was facing. So, you know, this guy revealed what he was involved with, but they established this secret society because of political corruption in the city they were in. They said, uh,

There had been an influx of politicians siding with criminals. There was gang money influencing what was going on, drug money influencing what was going on. So the police had no choice but to organize secretly and try and

I guess, gained some kind of control over what was going on. Because it was dangerous for them to organize openly. But through metaphysical means. Not metaphysical. It's just a secret society of police officers. But then what are they doing? In light of what Dodson's been describing, it sounds like they're doing prayer and spells and occult metaphysical stuff. I don't know. Maybe it's... Like are there a bunch of cops getting together that are doing weird prayers? Well, maybe it's like...

you know, they're arresting scumbags and they're seeing them go through the court system and just get released and back on the street. So maybe some of those cops are like, let's just make that guy disappear. Let's take justice into our own hands. Maybe, maybe that's what's going on. And that Knights Templar guy, he follows up a little bit on that story. The guy that approached him initially and said he's in the Knights Templar. He said, I omitted the last part of that story because,

When he said, we are Knights Templar, he asked this guy, well, what does that mean? What do you do? And this guy told him, our mission is to defend Christianity throughout the world. That's what they're trying to do. Well, that's what the Knights Templar do. Yeah, in a secretive way. So he said this guy was clearly telling the truth. He had a softness in his eyes, a peculiar gentleness of manner, unlike most other people I've met in or outside Freemasonry.

So it was easy to believe that he was telling the truth. Now, in terms of negative secret societies, this is what I was interested in. Like, where are the dark brotherhoods? Where's the deep state? Well, where's the cloaks and masks? Yeah, where's the hoods? Yeah. Where's the adrenochrome? He says, as far as I can tell from life experience and conversations with people of influence, there are two primary types of organizations of an evil nature. The occult, esoteric, demonic type. And big pharma.

And the military tech intelligence type. I was close. I was close. He also says there is a hostile anti-human force in the world. Yep. Some call Satan. Others call it the reptilians, aliens, the Illuminati, or the deep state. It's these guys.

And this is really what I was interested in. I wanted to hear about, again, the adrenochrome, the reptilians. Well, wasn't it Eisenhower? Was it Eisenhower who warned us about the military-industrial complex? I thought you were going to say the reptilians, but close enough. Well, yeah. I mean, well, there's rumors about Eisenhower making deals with the greats, so...

He says this negative force is limited in its jurisdiction in what it can do in the world, but without using the power of humans, this evil force cannot affect much on Earth. So it basically... It needs to use humans. Yeah, it's like a dark occult force that is using human beings for its bidding. Yes, to efficate its plans. Then he gets straight up

literal with it. He says they are chained up below Earth and all they can do is send signals hoping that humans act on their behalf. That's very Richard Shaver of him. That's so Darrow. What is going on? It's Darrow. Yeah. So it's... Oh, why is my wife calling me? How unprofessional then? How is that even coming through? Should I answer? Yeah. Uh, hello? Messed it up. Yeah, you messed it up. Hi.

Hello. This is live on the show. You're live on the show. Okay, bye. Bye. She's probably going to call back. She's like, something's not right with the call.

She's in Sydney with the kids. Oh, I see. They're visiting family and they probably want to call me before the kids go to bed. So I'm just going to hang up. I love it how the professionalism though is out the window. That's like final year. That's never happened before. I know. That could have happened over hundreds of shows. And that's the first time that my wife's ever called me at around this time of night. There you go. Hopefully nothing's wrong. What were we talking about? Reptilians. Reptilians.

So yeah, they're chained up beneath the earth. They're sending their energy vibes, mental vibes to try and influence people. Well, you know what though? That does tie in with the many, obviously anecdotal stories of people coming across, you know, strange, you know, doorways in rugged mountainous areas with, you know, the classic corridors lined with like a glass kind of material, then going underground and finding humanoid reptilians getting around. Like it's, it's,

It's consistent with those stories. Well, again, in typical Dodson fashion, he's light on details. He says, I've never personally witnessed them, but I have witnessed them spiritually. What does he mean by that? If you work on ascending in consciousness levels, you can sense them, you can smell them and intuitively know their works and even sometimes see them.

He says to an attuned person, nothing is invisible. Sometimes I've caught a real-life glimpse of their activities from the sidelines. I'm like, and? That's it! End of story. Oh, that must have been a frustrating read. Yeah. I mean, there's a lot more in the book. There's a lot, but... But that's the point that I realized...

Yeah, the secret societies are secret and you actually don't know anything about them either, Dodson. You've got nothing really. Well, I mean, it came to my mind before that, you know, of course these secret societies would have almost scapegoat organizations. So, yeah, the Freemasons and there's rumors spread about the War of the

the Freemasons do and everything. But the real societies, it's true. You're never going to know their names. You're never even going to know that they exist. You're not going to know what they do. And the reason why none of the stories ever come out is because it's like a blood pact that the only way you get out is through death.

Yeah, you would assume if it's that nefarious and they have that much influence that it would be that kind of deal that you wouldn't just be able to walk away. Well, look, if the CIA can develop things like heart attack guns, surely these secret organizations can do something very similar.

If they're connected to the military-industrial complex, especially. Well, there's been some better investigations on this over the years. Many of it has appeared at New Dawn Magazine, newdawnmagazine.com. Mehmet Sabaheddin wrote this article. I think this was back in 2008, 2009. Brothers of the Shadows Over Lords of Chaos.

And this is a pretty intriguing story. It surrounds that map that you see on the screen there that shows, see the Russian desert on the right? I've got an image of that coming up in a moment. But this was presented by this Englishman named Charles George Harrison back in 1893. He did a bunch of lectures at the Berean Society, which is this Christian esoteric organization that used to exist in London. But officially known? Yeah, you know, they were open, they were known.

This guy was an English occultist, but also an Anglican Christian. And it's clear that he had access, according to Mehmet, that he had access to a good deal of inside information about what was being engineered within certain circles in England. In his second lecture to this group, Harrison spoke of the next great European war. And remember, he gave this speech in 1893, saying,

He said the next European war and how the national character of the Slavic peoples would, quote, enable them to carry out experiments in socialism, political and economical, which would present innumerable difficulties in Western Europe, unquote. You mean like the European Union? No, I'm talking 1917, Russian Revolution, the Bolshevik Revolution. He announced this in 1893. Right.

And what, 20 years later, that revolution occurred, just as he had described. The next great European war pointed to, of course, the First World War. Harrison said the plan of a particular secret elite, which he doesn't mention by name in the speeches, was that, quote, the Russian Empire or believe that the Russian Empire must die and that the Russian people may live.

So yeah, pretty amazing to consider 21 years before the first world war, 24 years before the Russian revolution, he said a group was working towards these goals. And today we know that in 1917, the, you know, Lenin was sent on that train where was in Austria or Zurich, um, to Russia in a train loaded with gold funded, ready for his revolution. Clearly he had help. Clearly it was set up.

So the question is, who was setting it up and how did this guy know? Another researcher, Savak Golbeikian, said, how could Harrison know about the forthcoming war as well as the experiments in socialism, which would take a grip on Russia and its surrounding states, if he was not, as he claimed, a practical occultist himself? It is reasonable to assume he had contact with people who were and had access to these plans. Yeah.

So what Dodson's talking about, I mean, he goes very esoteric with it, but the reality is these groups exist. They've had their machinations for a long time and their machinations have been put into action and have achieved fruition. Here's the map that's a part of the story. I'll just put this on the screen here. So this is another part of this article here. The Kaiser's Dream? Yeah, this is the Kaiser's Dream. So this was released in a satirical magazine in 1890. So this would be like

an article in The Onion or something. And it was, the magazine was called The Truth because it's a satirical magazine. It showed monarchies that had been up until that time, monarchies, turned into republics. So all the kings are dead, all the queens are gone, and it's now republics.

The Austro-Hungarian Empire and the venerable Habsburg monarchy had disappeared. The Russian Empire is now tagged the Russian desert. What does that mean, though? Well, look what socialism did to the Russians. It completely destroyed it, right? Completely destroyed it. Completely destroyed the royalty there. In addition, Germany is identified with the words German republics. And again, this map is from 1890. So is this just a guess?

Is this just some kind of lucky coincidence that they got this? Is it like The Simpsons where The Simpsons has all these cartoons that eventually come true? Or was it something more? Was it some kind of leak of a plan that had been set in motion, of a plan that these elite groups wanted to put into effect?

what they wanted to achieve. But to turn Britain into a republic sounds rather far-fetched, but I guess the royal family doesn't have anywhere near the amount of power they used to. Well, yeah. I mean, in essence, that's what occurred in all those places. I mean, there's no royal power in any of those places, or there was no royal power heading into the 20th century. So the author that he's quoting is...

Zivak Golbeikian, who has appeared on New Dawn a bunch of times. He's got some great write-ups. Again, Brothers of the Shadows. This is a perspective on conspiracies. This is from 2004 over at New Dawn, so it's an older one. But this one's really interesting because it goes into some of the lectures that Rudolf Steiner gave in the early 1900s. And what he had predictions for this year.

this occurring? Yeah, so 1916, 1917, in the middle of the First World War, Steiner gives a series of 25 lectures and behind the outer facade of world affairs writes, what's his name again? Golbeikian,

The machinations of occult groups or brotherhoods were at work. Certain of these brotherhoods had wanted the Great War to take place and had manipulated events to bring it about. In doing this, they sought to protect the dominant economic position of the English-speaking world and in turn crush the mediating role of Central European powers such as Germany and

the Austro-Hungarian Empire, and so on. These occult brotherhoods, small groups of men who met together in lodges and practiced ceremonial magic as a means of achieving certain goals, originated from the English-speaking world, so these were Anglo-Saxons, and they were allied in particular with Anglo-American interests. Their aim was to extend Anglo-American influence across the globe and to ensure the pre-domination of Anglo-American culture.

Furthermore, they sought to extend its superiority into the distant future, essentially to ensure that the present state of affairs continues evermore. So that's an interesting idea that they saw Russia as this power that needed to be stopped. They saw...

Again, the Central Europe needed to be subjected to some nullifying force. So they're like, let's cook up. This is what Steiner believed, that they cooked up socialism, gave it to Lenin, gave it to Marx, gave it to Lenin, and was like,

send it off like a virus, shoot it off into that population and let's watch them crumble. Yeah. But if you read the works of Douglas Murray, it's like they've failed in their endeavor then. Well, it's almost like this science fiction story where they released a virus that would only affect their enemies. Yes. Yeah. But it ended up infecting the entire world, right? Yeah. It ended up destroying everything. And Stein has got an interesting take on this and

why this group, this is his kind of conspiracy theory of why this group would do this. He believes, he taught that in each cycle of history, a particular race or a particular nation becomes the vanguard of that cycle. Of that era. Of that era of history. And in the last cycle of civilization, you could argue the last 4,000 years. Well, it's in the

It's the West in general. It's white culture. It's white Europeans have been the vanguards of civilization. They've created- It's going to be like the Romans and the Greeks and- Yes, precisely. In this kind of 5,000 year period, roughly, give or take.

And I think that's indisputable. They've created most of the achievements in science and art and engineering. The world speaks English in terms of its business practices. The world uses the American currency. It really has been the vanguard of this particular cycle. But Steiner suggested that

The reason that the Western Europeans, the reason that white Europeans were given this vanguard role by higher forces was to essentially introduce a kind of beneficial materialism into the human world. What would that be though?

Well, it's the idea that materialism doesn't have to be this negative force. Materialism can be a good beneficial thing. You can build science. You can build up engineering. You can create a material world that has benefits, that is good for human beings. But Steiner argued that this was a plan set forth by higher forces and

That went too far? Yeah, exactly. Only to a certain point. It was only meant to go to a certain point. It was like to set up this basic foundation of this material society. So there's like a symbiosis between the non-physical and materialism. Yeah. Steiner's understanding was that it was necessary in order for humans to become fully part of the earthly world and help introduce individualized consciousness. And that is a really kind of unique Western European specifically individualized

English idea of that individual consciousness. It's obviously very much a Western thing. But materialism as a philosophy, he argued, as we know, it shuts out the possibility of the soul if it goes too far. It shuts out the spirit

spiritual realms yeah it removes the metaphysical everything becomes entire look at the look at the science that's developed to this point it nullifies the existence of the soul everything comes from the brain consciousness is just this thing from the brain but in saying that though maybe that's a hurdle that we just have to jump over because quantum science and quantum physics is now starting to give us insight into what could be considered to be metaphysical topics

Yes, but that's still from a material perspective. Yeah, right. It's still like dividing the world into smaller and smaller particles. So the Anglo-American brotherhoods that seek dominion over mankind, they understood this. They knew that there was this plan that had a limit to it. And again, this is just, this is Steiner's kind of conspiracy, Rudolf Steiner's conspiracy. He was saying that they somehow surmised this and they wanted to

They didn't want the plan to stop. They didn't want their rule to stop. They wanted the material world to keep going. Well, when I say that, the material dominance to keep going. So they went bad?

And so they deliberately sponsored various kinds of materialism in the hope of halting and trapping humanity at the present stage of its development. They don't want humans to progress beyond the present stage of immersion in the material world because they know that their grip over humanity would then be lost. Human progress is dependent on spiritual knowledge and thus the occult brotherhoods work against it.

Steiner explained further that the Brotherhoods were aware that the Slavic peoples were to be given the task of leadership on behalf of humanity during the next great period of history. So the Slavic people were going to become the vanguards in the next cycle. They would create the balance of the spiritual with the material. And it's interesting because it's almost like if that is a cosmic force that's being driven by some higher power we don't understand, then

It's still almost playing out that way. Because if you look at, let me give you an example here. I know this is probably like state propaganda, but the Moscow Times, Russia's building three new churches a day, according to the Orthodox leader there. This was from May the 27th in 2019. And you've seen this comparison between- Well, it's three are being burnt down a day. Exactly. You know, that's the kind of meme you would see on X, for example. Like in the West-

churches are being turned into Airbnbs or literally being burnt down by opposing forces. Whereas in Russia, they're being built, if that's a true story, maybe not today with the war, but Christianity is growing. You can argue it's beneficial for the politics of the Russian state for that to happen because it promotes nationalism. It's linked to nationalism. But

There is maybe something to that, that this was meant to happen, that the Slavic people were meant to lead, become the vanguards of this next cycle of history, which was going to be less about materialism and more about the spiritual and metaphysical. And so Steiner later claimed that the Bolshevik revolution in Russia, which obviously led to the USSR and the 72 year cultural, intellectual, economic, political and spiritual repression of the people,

was masterminded and sponsored by these same brotherhoods as a means of controlling that region and its people. You could almost say the same thing with China. Like,

China had a rich spiritual history. Very much so. It had a refined culture. A foundation of, you know, it could have been a leader in terms of the metaphysical and spiritual growth. And moral, like the ancient Chinese morals and, you know, which all went out with the revolution because it was like even things as simple as, you know, if you weren't spitting in the street, well, then you were part of the upper class.

and you needed to be cold. Yeah, so the idea is they got injected with the same virus. Yes, yeah.

So it's an interesting idea. I don't know if I buy it. I don't know if I buy the whole Steiner conspiracy in total because he had some strange ideas, but it's an intriguing one. You can see how he might have come to see that. And so the question is, well, how would these darker brotherhoods that are trying to stop this new vanguard and this new cycle of history, how would they know this is going to occur? How would they...

surmise this. I would say if there are cult groups that would be practicing divination of some kind. Right. So divination with what? Obsidian mirrors or even who knows? Well, divination as in communication with what? Entities. Right. Low-level entities. Maybe low-level, maybe higher level. We don't know because Steiner believed that there were higher beings that had disagreements, right? And they were higher than human beings, but they were fighting. There was different factions that were fighting. Right.

But I wanted to mention this article from Richard Smalley, again, also on New Dawn, The World of Esoteric Orders. I'll link to all these in the show notes at mysteriousuniverse.org. But Smalley's got this personal experience where it was a summer morning in California and he was in the, you know, Amork, the...

The mystical American mystical order of the Rosicrucian. Oh yes. The American Rosicrucians basically. He was in one of their Egyptian style auditoriums that they've built. And I think I've got an image of it. Yeah. That's one of them there. Everything's like Egyptian. That's very Masonic in itself though, isn't it? With the floor. Yeah. I mean, these guys are just another occult group and obviously they've been heavily influenced by Freemason and he's going through, there's a group of people there who's going through this guided meditation and

And suddenly he's transported to like this past life experience where he's sitting on this stone, like base in the middle of this Egyptian temple. And he says it was like nothing he's ever experienced before. He says he's been to Egypt multiple times. So this wasn't a recall of that. That didn't give him a sense of anything like this. This really felt like he was transported to a different place and

He said, I went into this deep state and I'm trying to find where he describes it. Yeah, the strong sense of being in an Egyptian temple seated on a stone chair in the center of this room. The only image I saw on the walls was a winged disc in front of me. There was a bright blue sky and a desert sand and some palms near the entrance of this building I was in. So he just momentarily got transported to this other place. Now, if you look at that

location, you might argue, well, he's just being influenced by the location. No, but that's not an accurate representation of what it really would have been like. You could tell the difference, I'm sure.

Like if you're having some visionary experience, which is allegedly true, as opposed to you going, oh yeah, cool. Like this Vegas style temple. Well, the reason they use all that Egyptian paraphernalia and the Egyptian paintings on the wall is because... The symbols have power to them, don't they? Well, they claim that their tradition extends back to ancient Egypt. Right. Now, can that be proven? Obviously not.

No one really knows for sure. It's probably not true. But what he claims is that it wasn't a past life vision. He actually entered their upper room.

It's this concept of the upper room. Have you heard this before? No, I haven't. But in light of what we were just talking about with the other group, but don't go to the top floor, is it the same kind of thing? Yes, but in a metaphysical sense, like almost a tool pick sense. So this phrase goes back to the New Testament. It tells of Christ's disciples in Acts 1.13.

The disciples gathering in an upper room after Christ's ascension. The phrase also appears in Mark 14, 15 and Luke 22, 12, which speak of an upper room at which the Last Supper was to be held.

So it's a pretty striking detail. And over the years, people have argued about its meaning, but it's very clear in these occult circles of what it actually implies, that the upper room is a destination in the astral realm, in another dimension. It's a meetup place in another realm.

He says it's a necessary part of an esoteric order. Most of them have it. And I did some research today looking for quotes from various groups about this. And I found a ton of these. Actually, I might bring those up later. But he talks about in the Pharma Fraternitatis, some ancient text,

Which is the inspiration for the Rosicrucian movement, he says. That every year on the day C, it's instructed we should meet together at the house of Sancti Spiritus or write the cause of one's absence. So no one knows what day C is, but apparently it's a specific day of the year if you're in this order. Everyone had to meet in the upper room.

So you all have to meditate at a certain time to go to this space, this upper realm. Yeah, you've got to project your mind into this tool pick room that everyone's created. So it's an astral zoom call? Yeah, it's like an astral zoom call. Everyone's got to be in there. And so the idea is that there's obviously higher beings that these groups interact, that communicate with.

But the best way to interact with them is in all states of consciousness in alternate dimensions because it's difficult for them to come and communicate. So this is the idea of how these dark lodges that Stein is describing work.

were able to surmise the plans of these historical shifts, these grand movements in the historical order of the world. But that's also a very interesting way of putting this idea of these occult groups remaining occult because they're not meeting anywhere in a space that anyone else could see them or even eavesdrop on their plans because it's a space which is out of the general populace's reach.

That's why they're hidden. Yeah, so one idea is that the esoteric order creates the space themselves by focused concentration and over time the metaphysical space forms. The egregoric function. Yeah, and this is what you mentioned Ledbetter at the start of the show. He actually talks about this in the book The Astral Plane. He said the student will bear in mind that the astral plane is the realm of desire, emotion, and imagination. The groups of individuals, by directing their thoughts harmoniously, can construct totality

Definite forms and even environments on this plane, which may serve as meeting places for those attuned to the same ideals, are different.

The Golden Dawn practiced this as well. There's the creation of a temple within the mind as a meeting place. The Rosicrucians did this, as he's pointed out. Alice Bailey wrote about this. She said groups of disciples by unified thought and purpose can construct a thought form of solution, a mental edifice wherein the problems of humanity are resolved.

It also occurred to me that people focusing on these forms, because with topic forms, a lot of the time the reality is that if they actually do manifest, they get out of control. That's really what the warning is about tulpas, is that they get out of control.

Is the room going to get out of control? It's a room. But it's not just the room, right? It's about what that represents and what it's trying to do. It's absorbing all of their plans. Is that what's happened with that group that was trying to go, okay, we're going to set it up that we inject a little bit of materialism into the world. And it's like they were meeting in this space. The space just got out of control. Well,

I think it's more that they use the space to communicate with something. So what is that something that's communicating with them and telling them what to do? Because I don't think it's just simply, yes, you're focusing on a space, but could simply focusing on creating a space also create an energetic form?

Well, I also wonder, can spies get into other groups? Of course they can. Meeting rooms. Well, because we know with remote viewing, and I'd imagine that remote viewing may not be that dissimilar from accessing these realms, because with remote viewing, you've got stories. I remember the guy, I can't remember who it was. Remember the guy who was like inside an alien base and the aliens detected him when he was out of body form in a remote viewing form? That's right. So yeah, I mean, it's not out of the possibility. Carl Jung wrote about this as well in the Red Book. He said, I found myself in high places.

upper room. It was a place of waiting, a timeless state of potential where the inner images could emerge and take form. This upper room was a space created through active imagination, where dialogues with the unconscious became possible.

And it's even mentioned in A Dweller on Two Planets, you know, the book by Frederick Oliver, which we've covered a bunch of times. One of the characters says, in the quiet of the mountain, we fashioned by the power of concentrator thought, a pavilion of light, a meeting place between the realms where wisdom could be imparted and received. This was no mere fantasy, but a tangible reality on the higher planes, accessible to those who knew of the secret of its creation.

That's how they do it. That's how they remain a cult.

As if that hasn't gone away, as if that's gone away. Of course it hasn't. As if that isn't happening right now today. Well, I mean, I know it's fiction, you know, and it's part of popular culture, but there's a television series, Timeless, which really goes quite a long way to underline exactly that that's what's happening. And, you know, without giving too much away with that series, it was essentially, there was a secretive clandestine group known as Rittenhouse that had access to time travel and they were manipulating all throughout history. They were a secret occult group that got together and they manipulated history for their political gain.

It's like, and what happens though with these sorts of things, right? There's also that element of they have to tell you what they're doing. Have you noticed that thing? It's like these groups, it's like if they tell you what they're doing, it's like it alleviates them of the guilt of whatever they're doing. So they tell you through things like media and television shows and movies and that kind of stuff. They're telling us that, yeah, there are these groups that have been around for a long time and they are manipulating history using esoteric means. I

I wonder if the tech bros have their own kind of secret society. Sure they do. I would guarantee there's some kind of, you know, connection. Well, I mean, when I talk about, or when we talk about the tech bros kind of stuff, I always just get a really yucky feeling about it because it's like, I remind myself of the Collins elite and the rumors about, you know, that demonic group or demonic group of entities that are trying to influence humanity and

But really, it was through technology. Maybe the bunk beds are for the blood boys, the Silicon Valley blood boys. And that in itself is... But what do they do? They tell you. They tell you that they're doing it. Like, really, I think morally, that's wrong. You shouldn't be utilizing other people to do that. But it's like, they've already told us, so it alleviates some of their guilt. Well, Pasulka's already talked about this, that some of these elite Silicon Valley elites, technological elites... Technocrats. They...

are in contact with what they believe are, you know, otherworldly beings. Well, Musk has said something that really struck a chord and I don't know. So actually I shouldn't say it was, it was supposedly him. I didn't hear it directly quoted from him, but it supposedly he said something on the lines of he consulted his AI and it warned him that

about what was going to happen in the future. So that's why he intervened in the recent election or has recently intervened more so in human affairs by buying Twitter and that kind of stuff. You need AI to tell you what direction the world's going. But I'm like...

I don't know if he means AI as in actual artificial intelligence. Did he consult something which was more occult? One of his sex bots. Well, I'm not saying sex bots. It's like pillow talk with one of his sex bots. No, I'm suggesting that perhaps because if you are that... You don't just simply get that wealthy and you stay out of the, I guess, the crosshairs of these groups. With that much power and influence, is it possible that he's consulted with something else? Whether it's the good group or the bad group, I think history has yet to show us. But it makes you go...

Yeah, I wouldn't be surprised if he did. Secret Societies and Spiritual Warfare, Frederick Dodson. It's available now. After the break in the plus extension, I might talk about the lolly beam that was shot into his head. Please do. Because he has a bit of a personal experience of a lolly beam.

bit of a lolly beam from some occult force being beamed into him that that's coming up in plus meanwhile mysterious universe.org I'll link to all those articles we've discussed today but definitely check out the emu max sale still going on we're probably going to run this till the end of January emu max usually what was it $160 $165 $165 40% off 40% off $99 sign up for emu max today it gives you access to absolutely everything

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