33.05 - MU Podcast - The Secret Fire
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Welcome to Mysterious Universe, Season 33, Episode 5. Coming up on this show, we've got the naked blacksmith orb rituals, the secret fire of alchemy, and when your Indian guru calls you a simp. I'm your host, Benjamin Grundy. Joining me is Aaron Wright. How's your morning been, my friend?

I love it how you just set me up. You didn't tell me that one was coming. Is it just like, you are a ship? Is that what it is? Yeah, the story I've got coming up, the guy eventually makes it to this ashram in India. Like all these stories, right? Yeah.

And it's one of these ones where he's been having visions of this guru and he finally makes it like on this bus for five days with goats and chickens, the top of the mountains. He makes it and this guru is just like, where have you been, buddy? I've been waiting for you. And he ends up, this guy can read his mind. Like the yogi can supposedly read his mind. And he meditates every day and proceeds in his practice. He practices Kriya Yoga.

Oh, I'm not familiar with that. Yeah, it's the one that Yogananda brought to the West. Oh, I see. Okay. And so he's doing this practice, but he's distracted by everyday thoughts and he's distracted by the relationships he left behind. And he has this girlfriend in Taiwan. And when he thinks no one is watching, he goes down to the local town and he's writing letters to his girlfriend. He does this every day.

And finally, the guru has had enough because they're sitting in this hall with all these disciples of the guru. And the guru comes out and he looks pissed. He's just super pissed off. And everyone's like, what's up with the barber? Yeah, why would you be pissed off about that? Why is the barber upset? And he just looks out over all the people and he's like, you. And he points to the author I'm going to be speaking about, Kevin. He's like,

You are always thinking about sex? You're always thinking about your girlfriend? Disgusting! He basically calls the guy a simp in front of the whole ashram. He hangs his head in shame and everyone just starts laughing at him.

And so that's what I'm going to be talking about coming up, the secret fire of alchemy. Kevin Turner, have we looked at some of his work before? Yeah, you're right. He did this excellent book, Sky Shamans of Mongolia. Oh, yes. Meetings with Remarkable Healers, which was back on, what was that, September last year. And that was a brilliant book because Kevin traveled to Mongolia, which is really the

I guess you could say the core shamanistic region in Asia. I mean, that's their religion. Their state religion is shamanism, I guess. And he interviewed a lot of people. But the interesting thing about Kevin is that he alluded to a few things

extraordinary abilities that he had himself. And often when he would speak to these shamans, they would recognize that he was someone who had done a lot of spiritual practice and had certain perceptions that everyday people don't have. And he was accepted into some of these very kind of secret groups that really don't allow themselves to be... Yeah, they don't allow outsiders in in any way. So it was a really fascinating book, The Sky Shamans of Mongolia. But so is this book...

After this one? Yes. Like the experiences? Well, he had... Obviously, the book is after. He had these experiences in Mongolia that he just alluded to. Like, for example, he would leave his body and fly over the country. And one of the things he said about Mongolia is just there's spirits everywhere. And he's been out of body in multiple regions around the world. And he has a sense of, I guess you could say...

the milieu of spirits, like the amount of them floating around. He said Mongolia was like nothing he'd ever seen. There was just spirits all over the place. Whether that's a good thing or a bad thing is debatable, right? Yeah. Depending on what their intentions are. We have our opinions on shamanism and low-level spirits, but

He didn't elaborate on his personal experiences. He says he was working on a book, which is this one now that just came out. So this is really his path over the last 30 years. He's kept this secret. He hasn't revealed this to anyone. Today, he's the director of shamanistic studies in Asia and-

Very much like has an academic approach to these topics. But this is wild. Still full of his stories. This is wild. Like he has so many bizarre experiences starting with initiations in his 20s. And he describes them in great detail, which I'll get into. But there's this really interesting thing he does where he finds these old

clippings from very obscure alchemical treaties from the West that

in like the 14th century, 13th century, 16th century. You know, just really obscure occult things that you read at first glance and go, what does that even mean? Who's storing this stuff? Like the Theosophical Society or other occult organizations? Well, they're around, like they're in like Cambridge Library. Right. Like the Ripley Scroll, for example, would be something like...

This thing here with all these occult images of a man standing in flame and lava and the strange column. And, you know, there's old books that are attributed to Saint Germain, but no one really knows who wrote them. And they're full of this strange language that's almost impenetrable. Like the idea is you have to be initiated to have any kind of understanding of it.

But you, as we're going to find out, when you listen to Kevin's experiences and compare them with the old alchemical texts,

It's like the same thing. It's exactly the same thing. Yeah. And it's going to blow you away. So I've got that coming up. Well, look, the fact that there's Kundalini involved, we know it's going to blow us away. Probably literally. Probably. Actually, so in the plus extension, then I think this will dovetail really nicely because on the last plus show, you covered this great story of a guy that had some rather strange experiences where he saw this ball of fire over this particular area of a road. Go back and listen to it. I won't explain it in great detail, but essentially-

He was looking down from it. He didn't understand why. And later on, we find out that he's involved in a car accident at that very location. But a couple of years later, it was this weird kind of perception through time, but then associated with a UFO. It's like, not entirely sure what to make of it. The UFO was his soul out of body in the future. Yeah. Yeah. It gets murky, right? It gets a little bit difficult. Well, I'm going to continue along that kind of theme because we've been talking about ley lines and energy centers and that kind of stuff. But I happen

to come across the works of J.H. Brennan and he published a book many, many, many years ago called Astral Doorways. And I thought that this was going to be tying into some of these locations around the world, these power locations, these ancient megaliths that have weird activity associated with them.

It's not really that. He's more talking about how people can access these realms, utilizing these locations in some circumstances, but also you can access it directly through practices to gain entry through your mind. And he's not saying that all of this phenomenon that occurs is within your mind, even though it is, because he says the astral plane is not necessarily a

place. I mean, it is a place, but it's not. It's like this weird dichotomy. He's like, it's a location that you can access and you can have acres and acres of space that's within your consciousness, that is within the astral plane. But the issue is, in that space, you can generate thought forms. You can generate horrible emotions, good emotions. All this stuff gets loose. And what happens is it imprints on the physical world. And it may give us some understanding as to why

People have these weird disagreements, like Bigfoot people, for example. Some people on one side say Bigfoot is absolutely flesh and blood. Other side, people say, no, it's a spiritual entity. But for whatever reason, we find these reports of where it's phasing from physical to non-physical and passing through walls and invisible and doing all this kind of weird stuff. It could actually be because it's an entity that has escaped.

from someone's astral field. Oh no. So it's physical. It's physical. It's real, but it's also non-physical. It's a really interesting approach. So we're going to go into those stories a little bit later on in the show. Yeah. Awesome. Okay. Looking forward to this show. There's some technical aspects that Kevin Turner talks about, which might relate to what you're talking about in terms of

getting into the astral mind. Yeah. Um, he talks about in the introduction, the testament of the alchemical novice, which is him, was originally shared only with a focus circle of initiates. So this has not been revealed to the greater public before this book's been released. He says, uh,

The time of secrecy is passing, though, and there is greater need. The goal of alchemy is the transformation of one's ordinary laden consciousness into the gold of cosmic consciousness, and he hopes that his personal account can help other people. So it began when he was 21. He's been keeping these experiences secret for 30 years. He was living in the United States, and...

It started with these deep dreams. He was drawn into these dreams, which he now understands were initiations. And like I said, throughout the book, he includes these quotations from these old sources that correlate with them. So it begins with these dreams. He says, I pass directly into dreams without losing a continuity of consciousness. So he's not falling asleep and waking up in a dream state.

He's just conscious the whole way through. He says they're not common dreams. The first initiation came in the form of a repeating progress of dreams. So they're in a sequence. He said,

upon a raised platform. From the top of this stone pillar pours a blazing magma. I'm fascinated, entranced, cannot turn away, he says. Behind me, a male and a female seal me into the chamber. As the room fills with burning lava, I'm alarmed. Surely I'm going to be burned to ashes, he says, but I awaken before the molten fire reaches me.

And this is where we come to our first quote. He pulls this from the alchemical axiom first noted in Basilio Valentino's Azov, this source from 1613. That previous image, is that one that you've generated or is that from his book? That's what I've generated. So I'm going to be throwing in some, you know. It's a powerful image. But this is a likeness to what he's seeing, right? And we have this 17th century source saying,

From this mysterious Valentino Azov, visit the interior of the earth and by rectifying, you will find the hidden stone, which is the true medicine. So odd. Okay. He's dreaming about this chamber within the earth with this pillar of fire. Let's continue. So at the time he's at university, he's studying architecture. It's tough, demanding lots of study. But again and again in his sleep, he's drawn into this chamber under the earth.

And he says, night after night, I'm entombed by these two strange individuals facing the death of this lava spewing forth from this column. And again, another quote, this time from the Holy Trinosophia, which is an interesting one. This is attributed to Saint Germain. No one knows who wrote it.

The earliest source is probably the late 1700s, but I can't track it down. So it's from an alchemist. It's from a secret alchemist. Are those inscriptions anything that we would know or is it just like weird alchemical language? There's various covers of the book I've seen, but they all are similar in that style where it's just some cult meaning. But the quote from this book is, lightning gave to flames of the volcano a

a blood-like appearance. Vesuvius roars. Wrapped in darkness, I seemed to descend into an abyss. I know not how long I remained in that situation. So again, we're coming across these very old, strange, occult

alchemical sources describing what he's going through in his dreams. Now, at the time, he had no idea about any of these things. He had no idea about alchemy. Especially at 20 or something, it wouldn't be at the forefront of your mind. He had no idea about these sources. Anyway, weeks pass and these strange dreams evolve. He says, I'm yet again led by an unseen power, descends down into the earth, into this cave. And again, there's this pillar of fire.

And he says, again, I'm sealed into this cavern by these two individuals. But this time he says, it's almost like something snapped. And he's like, all right, I'm just going to die. I'm going to give everything up and I'm going to succumb to the flames and I'm not going to be fearful of it. And he's like, I'm going to stare down the primal magma.

It's like a test. Well, yeah, this is clearly a test. And this is 100% visceral. He's actually there. Lava is filling this cavern, this wall of heat and flame. And he says he can feel it. He's sweating. And he really feels like he's going to die. But he walks into the lava, just wades into it. He says there's no pain.

The room fills to the ceiling with the glowing lava. And he says, I surrender as I'm incinerated into ash and embers. It's like the Universal Studios of shamanism. Yeah, it's a bit of a wild ride. It's all like tricks and mirrors. But slowly the ash cools and he's revealed to be made of now heavy black stone, still in this chamber. But he's at peace. And he says, I awoke that morning with a fresh mind of clear light, full of curiosity.

Again, we have another quote from that same book I just mentioned. A lake of fire presented itself to my sight. Sulfur and bitumen rolled in flaming waves. I trembled. A loud voice commanded me to pass through the flames. I obeyed, and the flames seemed to have lost their power. For a long time I walked within the conflagration.

This is almost like a metaphor though for fear, for example. It's like people generate these fears inside their mind and they're so overwhelming and they're so scary, but when you confront them,

They disappear. You find that they have no power. It's very similar to this. Yeah, I mean, that's the form that the test takes. But isn't it intriguing that the form has remained the same from this mysterious occult alchemical text with no, we don't know who wrote it. And here's this American in his 20s in the 1970s or whenever it was.

experiencing exactly the same thing. And the symbol is fire as well. And he's not an alchemical practitioner. He has no knowledge of it. Which makes you question, though, why him? If he's never dabbled in this stuff, why would he suddenly have this initiation? Okay, so I'll have an answer for that a little bit later. But let me show you this scroll.

So this is, it's called Ripley's Scroll. Again, no one really knows who it's from. It's been attributed to this George Ripley, who was a 15th century English alchemist. And it's a manuscript, it's an alchemical manuscript that describes how to make the philosopher's stone. Right. Now let's zoom in and take a look. Let me describe this to you. So this is a man who's sealed in a kind of pit, right?

that is filled with lava, and before him, he's clutching onto it, is a column that's spewing fire. Now, behind him are two individuals, a male and a female, who are there with him in this chamber. Why is there... Is it water and... Is it earth behind him? Yeah, so there's other aspects of the elements, the alchemical elements. Oh, of course. But...

Look at the, again, this is identical to his dreams. Isn't that strange? It's not like that he's like seen this somewhere, you know, and it's somehow incorporated into his subconscious and is now resurfacing. He's doing architecture at school. He's no idea about this. Yeah. This is not an image that you, but it's not even an image that you would have seen as a child, which is, you know what I mean? Like it's an obscure thing that it's not out there. Yeah.

So these dream sequences continue, but he no longer finds it frightening. And it's the same thing with the column spewing lava and he walks into it and he's consumed and turned to stone. And this happens night after night, but each time it occurs...

He feels himself being almost purified to a degree. He says it finally came to the separation of white from black. And he said, I feel and know myself to be like a thin skeleton of highly vibrating white light. He said, like an electric wisp, I am now as slippery and translucent as light through a window. And he lifts away from this stone wall

because he's turned to stone after the lava, he lifts away from the stone and he's free. And he's like, I float around the room as a filament of white lightning. And this indescribable joy fills me. He says, I'm utterly myself. And I soon find myself standing down on the street in front of my home.

And he's like, light is shimmering everywhere. Like his house is glowing with this weird astral life. And he says, I roam in my neighborhood and delight completely out of body. This is most extraordinary because what he is describing is very similar to what was described by Brennan with the experiments he ran with people that were trying to access the astral plane. So he may actually be accessing a certain real location, but this also could be part of his astral plane.

that's within his consciousness, within his spiritual body. Because what's being described of like coming this light, there's two forms. There's the astral body and then there's the elemental body. And so one can kind of imprint upon the physical reality and the other one is a space that you can't influence. And it's like he's broken out from one of those forms and is now free and is this light.

Yeah, and again, the quotes, like you've got one from an axiom of medieval alchemy, this really old text, dissolve the body and coagulate the spirit, which is precisely what's happening to him. His body's being broken down. That's shamanism as well, isn't it? This is the whole point of being freed from it. But I think more importantly, there's one from...

an epigram. There's an epigram concerning the Philosopher's Stone. It's from this old text from the 17th century by Benedictus Figulus, a golden and blessed casket of nature's marvels. Again, this impenetrable occult text. This is the symbol from it, which is, I don't know what it means. But the quote from this text is, we dissolve the living body with Apollo's fire so that what was before a stone was

may become a spirit.

So is that what the Philosopher's Stone is? It's not for turning lead into gold. I mean, it might do that, but it's for changing your physical body into a spiritual body. No, don't get confused with the Philosopher's Stone and him being turned to stone by the lava. I think that's a different thing. We'll get into that in a moment. So what's this then? What's it describing? Well, they're saying what was before a stone may become a spirit. I mean, if you look at what he's going through, he's turning into stone from the lava and then his spirit is being released from it.

Again, it's the same thing. And so, yeah, there's another image here. This is... Oh, he described a skeletal structure. Yeah, he describes coming out as this skeletal form and there's old alchemical images from the 17th century showing precisely that as well. So these midnight forays become more and more frequent. He is going through the same process where he breaks out of the stone body and he starts emerging out of body and

And he says this weeks after the dream initiations began. So it's now the spring of 1982. He said the cave of fire, that whole sequence of being sealed in that cave, that underground chamber was no longer required. He said, I could remain awake. And I was purely conscious of this silvery tendril of soul being released from his body.

he said i enjoyed a certain freedom in my neighborhood for some weeks but then on one evening a new development occurred he said as my body lay in a stone-like catalepsy again he fills this electricity building and he leaves the body but he said this time i'm drawn upward into a tiny point of liquid metal light at the center of my head so actually this time he's not leaving the body it's like he's being sucked up into his own brain

He says, I start to hear a high-pitched siren going into a thundering freight train. He says, it almost sounds like a heavy waterfall, but with this, you know, like... Yeah, like the sound of eternity kind of thing. Like an air raid siren going off in his head. He says, it then became many bells struck all around me, all emanating from the center of my head. Louder and louder it becomes until I can no longer bear it.

immersed in a tense fear, the process ends. So he's not actually getting out of body. He's now, something else is happening. He's being thrust up into his skull and there's the fear from this intense cacophony of oppressive noise in his head.

Could this be a representation of him actually experiencing Kundalini? Like, is that what's happening? It's like he's moving through his spine into his... Great insight. Because listen, as he continues, he says, every few nights, this repeats. My silvery electric light self is pulled upward through my spine, condensing into a point in the center of my head.

with that terrifying piercing sound of bells and roars, like a freight train about to hit you. And he says, it's just, you're absolutely terrifying. And the fear is stopping him every single time. He has to get out of the experiences too much. Now, um, you'd think after this point though, you'd be like, well, I've been through the cleansing of the fire. I'm just going to go for it. Well, I guess, yeah, I guess to this point where he's like, I've got to surrender to it because it's happening every night. He's being sucked up through his spine.

And this time he's like, I surrender to the inevitable. And he holds his focus on this roar, which is just absolutely deafening. Like if he was hearing it with his real physical ears, it would blow his eardrums. But he just focuses on it and ultimately goes up to the center of the skull inside his own head. And there's this audible, this massive pop. And he's pulled up out of the top of his head away from his body. So it's strange. It's like he was going out of body before.

But now there's a whole added process to it. And here he includes a quote from the great Manly P. Hall, who wrote, led by the blazing star, the candidate throws himself into the midst of the waves with his lamp upon the crown of his head. He struggles for mastery over the currents of the etheric world. So that was like that occult image before there was a crown that was sitting up upon something.

I can't remember what it was now. Crown? If you keep going... No, no, no. Keep going back. It was a colored... There, look. Oh, good eye, Aaron. You're right. There's a crown right at the top. Huh. Yeah, does that represent something else? So...

Again, he also quotes the most holy Trinosophia, again, attributed to this one right in front of us here. There you go. The sound which I had heard when striking the altar repeated itself as if a thousand blows had been struck at the same time. So they're describing some cacophony of horrible repeating sounds. A hand seized me by the hair and lifted me toward the vault, which opened to let me through.

So is that describing the same thing that he's going through? So anyway, he's out, out of his skull, out of the body. The room is lit by this shimmering diffuse light and he's got glory. No source, right? Yeah, yeah. It's just glowing. He's got glorious freedom and he flies out over the neighborhood and he's flying over the trees and houses and everything's of a different quality and slightly different color. And it's a clarity he's never known before. Everything's in 8K resolution.

He tells no one of these adventures, no one of these out-of-body experiences, doesn't tell family or friends. Because they'll make him sound like a lunatic. Yeah, and he just keeps on going with these architect studies at school. But he starts to descend or ascend into this altered state of consciousness where time doesn't have as much meaning anymore. And he has ultimate recall and clarity of everything. And colors are hypersensitive and hearing is tuned up.

And everything feels connected, he said. And he can recall memories from years and years and years ago as if it happened yesterday. Like his mind has been unlocked. But despite this astral freedom and this new awareness, he says, I was not entirely free. And he said there were actually boundaries to where I could go in these explorations. He's in his acreage. Yeah, right. So you'll probably have more on this coming up in the PLOS extension. Yeah. But he doesn't elaborate on what those boundaries were, but-

There were clear limits of how far he could go. And this, he says, spurred on another test, another initiation. So on one of these nights, he lifts out as usual out of his body. But this time, he says, he's thunderstruck with fear because there's this hideous creature standing at the threshold of his bedroom door. He said it was like this horrible, enormous black peril.

standing there neither entering nor departing and he said he'd seen dark shadows and weird shapes in these out-of-body excursions but had just avoided them he'd never gotten close but this thing is just leeching malevolence and he feels like it wants to destroy his soul and he's just shivering with fear he can't move and he's back in his body he's like holy crap i hope that that thing doesn't show up again that was absolutely terrifying and

The next night, again, he has the out-of-body experience. Another black shadow is standing in the threshold of his door. He says he can feel its dark malice. This time it's a hooded figure with seething rage. He says he feels soul sick just being in its presence. And he tries to get out of the room. He tries to, I don't know if he tried like feints it. He tries to get out, tries to go through the window. He said when he tried to go through the window,

An unseen force pinned him, pulled him back. So he realized he was trapped. He couldn't exit the room. And this was happening night after night after night. He was trapped in this room with this entity. And over time, he realized it couldn't come in for some reason. It can't cross the threshold without being invited. It can't cross the threshold. And it starts to feel familiar after a while, like...

Have I seen this thing before? Well, it could be generated by him. Well, yeah. He says, I even sensed a certain pain in it and a kinship developed to a degree. He said, I know this shadow. I realized I know it. He said, I recognized its familiar darkness, a radiation of dark greed and hidden fears from an unknown past, perhaps my own, he said. It just felt so familiar. So it gets to this point where he's like,

all right, it's like the lava. He's like, I got to get through this thing. I got to get past. I got to get out of this room. And he includes a quote actually from Rudolf Steiner here. And Steiner spoke about the same thing. He said, yet my threshold is fashioned out of all the timidity that remains in thee, out of all the dread of the strength needed to take full responsibility for all thy thoughts and actions. So that creature,

He's created from his flaws, from his attachments. He's definitely on his own astral acreage. It's amazing that you ended up covering this because it's like what was described by Brennan. So what happens is that you essentially have thoughts and fears and it's like this whole idea that thoughts aren't your own. That's true in some sense, but ones that you generate yourself and even that you might suppress, they linger in this space. And they're

And if you can't confront them, deal with them, they're going to linger in the background. And sometimes they can become so powerful that they overwhelm you. And over time they build. That's right. They're sentient. Yep. And then start impressing upon others in the physical. Yeah, that's interesting. Yeah.

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I'm just playing. Get the Angel Reef special at McDonald's now. Ba-da-ba-ba-ba. And participating restaurants for a limited time. The PC gave us computing power at home, the internet connected us, and mobile let us do it pretty much anywhere. Now generative AI lets us communicate with technology in our own language using our own senses. But figuring it all out when you're living through it is a totally different story. Welcome to Leading the Shift.

a new podcast from Microsoft Azure. I'm your host, Susan Etlinger. In each episode, leaders will share what they're learning to help you navigate all this change with confidence. Please join us. Listen and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. Well, finally, one astral evening he's had enough.

He's like, I'm going to take it on. He's going to use the power of the fear that kept him in his room to push the menace back. Or he's like, I'm going to die. If it kills me, so be it. And he's just like, with all the force of his will, he plows into it and it vanishes. It just immediately vanishes. And he's like pops into the stairwell of his room, of his house out of body and

And he's like, I came to know greater freedom than ever before. So now those boundaries had been pushed back even further. He could travel even further. And so because those boundaries have been removed night after night, he's drawn to this location. He doesn't know where it is. He doesn't recognize it. It's this mountain forest temple over like he remembers traveling over a wide sea for what feels like a long time. And he arrives in this mountain temple and

And he's there week after week. He's arriving at this temple. And let me describe it to you. He says, I find myself seated upon a red carpet on the floor before a low black table. It's covered in golden ritual instruments.

on either side are walls of golden lanterns lit from within oriental designs appear on some of the lands the temple is clearly in the far east and ahead of me beyond the large low table where there'd normally be an altar of some kind is instead a large window looking out to a forested scene someone is performing an elaborate ritual with fire water incense bells and chanting night after night he says i sit before this black table of ritual

That awareness drifts between me, he says, and the being doing the ritual. Is he seeing a past life? You get a sense maybe that's going on because he says it's hard to discern. Am I that person doing the ritual or am I sitting here observing it? And after weeks of going to this location, he feels like something's completed and he never goes there again. Like something's cleared, something's done. He never goes there again.

So this is where it starts to really, his experiences start to really go off in a different direction. It's like these first initiations were just laying the foundation, getting him used to being out of his body and having these experiences at night. He says after this, the question of where we come from before birth, the question he says he's always had ever since he was young.

For some reason, it just starts playing on his mind again. Like, where were we before we were born? What were we before we were born? And he says, days later, I set my intention before sleep. He says, I want to know the secrets of life and death. So he goes to bed, he goes to sleep, and he goes through up into the, you know, up through the spine, up into that point in his brain, pops out out of body like he does every night. And he says, he's there in his room and this strange spirit,

wafts into the room. He says, it's a goddess-like female. And her voice is like an angelic choir. And she rides, it rides into his mind on a silver wave, he says. And this goddess says to him, come, I'll show you. And he's like so astonished. He just goes, okay, I'll go. So he basically, this goddess takes him up through the night

And they actually start going higher into the Earth's atmosphere. And he claims they get to the edge of the Earth's atmosphere, but instead of breaking out into space, they land in a garden. And it looks like what you would see from a beautiful European garden in the 19th century, like spotless, this wonderful park.

And he's being guided through it. And the colors are like nothing, you know, like nothing you've ever seen on earth. Hues you've never seen before. Flowers and trees that are just vibrating with beauty. And they come to this man that's seated and he's got a dark beard. He looks like he's wearing like a 19th century three-piece suit. Oh my God, it's the architect. And well, no, he's confused. This man is like looking around bewildered. He's like, what is going on? Why am I here? He looks a little bit Mediterranean.

And he looks like he's waiting for something or he's just totally bewildered. Now, Kevin gets a feeling that, okay, this guy's finished his time on Earth and he focuses in on the guy and he starts to pick up on his thoughts. And the guy's thinking, is this really what it's like after death? Is this really what it's like?

And he says, this guy's really familiar to me. I can't place how I know him. He says, I feel a vague compulsion to talk with him. But again, that goddess spirit steps in and says he won't understand. So they move away. He says awareness drifts for weeks or even months far into vaguely remembered realms. So he goes on this huge journey, but much of it he can't recall. Now he wakes up from birds and sunlight hitting his head. He's back in his home, back in his body, but he feels cold and wet.

He's like, what the hell? Was it just a fever dream? Well, no, he pissed himself. Oh, wow. Why? Because he was away for so long? Well, think about it for a second. If you wet the bed, you wake up immediately. Of course you do. Because it's like you just... It's cold and wet. Well, it's not cold and wet. It's like warm and wet. Yeah, but you feel when it gets cold. Right, it gets cold. So that means he was so far away...

Yeah. He was so gone, so removed from his body that he just laid in a warm puddle of his own piss until morning and it was cold. So that suggests to me that he's not just sitting there in his body and his brain's firing off different neurons and this is just some elaborate dream. He's clearly so removed that you could prick him with the pin and he wouldn't wake up. He's not in his body. It's not a trance state, but it's very similar. Right.

So it's now the autumn of 1982. He's still working hard on his architectural studies, but each night he's encountering a new initiation during sleep. He finds himself in one of these journeys side by side with this teacher and they're walking through this European hall of just exquisite beauty. Think like the Vatican or, you know, the ceiling painted by Michelangelo or something. And they're walking through it and they're

He hears the elder teacher's inner voice in his mind and it starts giving him a discourse on time and change in human society and the way the human beings have evolved. And he feels awestruck, he says, unable to encompass the scope of this alternate history of humankind unveiled in pure thought between them. It's completely different to what he's learned about our history.

And it's full of all these other subtleties of the metaphysical realm that makes total sense of how history has gone. He says, yet another aspect of myself, a mature, wiser self understands this teaching, has probably heard it before, feels that it's some kind of refresher course. But he says, the other side of me is like, this is mind blowing. What is going on? This is crazy.

And he's like, why do I have two aspects of myself? This is weird. Why does it feel like there's a version of myself that understands all this? That's strange. It's almost like his oversoul or something. It's like, it's an aspect of you that has all that knowledge all the time.

And then there's your ego that incarnates in each lifetime. Nailed it. Totally nailed it. And he feels like there's actually three individuals walking down this hall, his mature self and the him, the him that he understands. But this elderly teacher turns to face him for the first time and he's like freaked out because it's like a normal European dude. But instead of a head, it's just a giant bulb of white light.

It's like maybe something like this. I couldn't really get it with AI. It's pretty close. But he's just got a giant light bulb head and he's staring at it and he actually becomes panicked. He becomes scared because it's so off-putting. And this teacher, this old man is like, you must remember, you must remember. And he's like,

feels this crack of lightning flow through him. And in panic, he knows, I've got to remember this guy's face. I've got to remember it. And he looks closely in the light and he can start to see like the edges of a face and making out the eyes. And there's a statesman-like look to the guy and he can feel this familiarity, but he can't identify him. He can't quite see who it is. And then the man shouts a code phrase at him. Now he doesn't reveal it, but it's some kind of alchemical occult code.

And like a magic word. Yeah. Like some kind of, yeah. Like abracadabra spell. Yeah. Something like that. And this blasts him out of his consciousness and he like buries his head in his hands. And he's like, I can't believe I've forgotten you. Like, I can't believe I've forgotten you. Cause he understands you've taught, you've taught me for so long. I can't believe I've forgotten you. So who is he? Well, that's the question. It's like, that's his new quest. Who is this guy? How can he remember? Yeah.

He says, I must understand this experience. I must discover this mysterious figure. Who is this man? What is it that I had forgotten? Now, he says, since that dream awoke, well, sorry, since he awoke from that dream, he started to really feel that split in the self, the difference between the conscious him and this other side. And he's like, how could I be so naive and also have this wise side of myself? So he starts a journal.

He starts writing a journal and asking these questions in the journal. And he finds that if he stills his mind, automatic writing starts to come. Yeah, oh, watch out. Is this the other self or is it something else? But it's the elder self responding to his questions. And he said...

He was scared of it. Like he would run away from it and he had it in this green bound diary and occasionally he would go back to it and open it and whatever the other self would write totally made sense. Like it totally made sense later. It didn't make sense in the moment, but later he would read it and be like, oh my gosh, yes, that makes total sense. And so...

This elder self, he actually quotes Peter Novak, who's, I think he's a modern author. He writes about Swedenborg, Edgar Cayce, Rudolf Steiner, Don Juan, James Van Praagh, and others. They all subscribe to, as you mentioned, this other soul, this binary soul doctrine. So besides the physical body, all of these thinkers agree that

human beings have two other non-physical aspects. The soul, which is you, and this assistant, this other self. Cayce and Steiner use the very same terminology. They just call it soul and spirit. Swedenborg calls it inward and outward. We've always said soul and assistant soul. The soul and the daemon is another term we've used. So astral and mental bodies. But this is something really intriguing. There are two souls.

And one of his professors introduces him to Goethe and Goethe writes in Faust, Alas, two souls dwell within this breast and each is fain to leave its brother.

The one, fast clinging to the world, adheres with clutching organs in love's sturdy lust. The other strongly lifts itself from dust to yonder high ancestral spheres. Oh, are their spirits hovering near. He reads this and he's like, oh my God, he's correct. We do have two souls. This is crazy. Like Goethe understood it.

And the way he writes about it makes sense as well. Like one soul, which is the conscious you, is fast clinging to the world. It's in love's sturdy lust. It's like you're stuck in the material. But the assistant soul, his wiser self, has all this knowledge and understanding. Goethe wrote, it goes, it yonders high, heads to ancestral spheres. It's on a higher plane. And so this was a huge breakthrough for him. So he rushed to the university library because he's thinking maybe Goethe...

is the teacher that I saw in that vision with the light bulb head. Yes. And he finds an image of it and he's like, nah, damn. It's not him. It's not him. Well, surely it's just him, right? Like surely it's him. It's his, oh no, because there's another one standing on the other side. There's three of them there. There's a teacher, there's his consciousness and there's the assistant consciousness. So it's not him. And Adrian Anderson, another researcher, commented in one of his books that Rudolf Steiner lectured that Goethe's

had undergone initiations. Right. But not in person, not in the waking state. He insisted that Goethe went through initiations in his sleep. Exactly like what Kevin Turner's going through. So anyway, we get to the Christmas holidays and Kevin's hanging out with his family. He falls asleep a few days before Christmas and pops out of body unknowingly.

And he's hovering above this man raking leaves in his yard. And then he realizes, oh, that's weird. I'm out of body. That's strange. And he's spinning around and enjoying it. And he's like, where did I leave my body? It must be somewhere. Where am I? Yeah. He's like, where did I park? And so he's floating around and eventually finds his house and recognizes his backyard, flies in through the room. He's passing along the ceiling in the kitchen and he looks down and he says, there's something terrifying below, like this chilling scene.

He says there's this weird translucent humanoid creature standing in the kitchen of his home. He says it had these crazy luminescent colors, but it was like grotesque. It was like an anatomical dummy that had been splayed open. And it had these weird auric light patterns all around it. And he said this creature was just like doing something in the kitchen. And he's like,

I'm not even going to deal with this. He's like, some things in the astral realm, you just leave them alone. And so he goes on, looks for his body. Then he gets to his bedroom and he's like, the gall. Someone, some brigand has broken into my house and the gall of it is sleeping in my bed. Some blonde haired fruit is sleeping in my bed. And he goes up and he's like, what the hell?

Of course, you know the answer to the question. It's him. He just doesn't recognize himself. So he gets in his body. He's like, holy crap. Okay, that was weird. And his argument is like, you never see yourself live with your eyes closed. Unless you video yourself. And this is before personal phones and cameras. This is the 1980s.

So he's like, yeah, that's why you don't recognize yourself out of body because you never see yourself. It's always, and if it's a mirror image, it's another angle as well. So he's like, his hair was swept back the wrong way. And he gets, he goes downstairs and he's like, wants to get a snack. And he sees his mom in the kitchen and he realizes the freak humanoid was his mother. And that's what she looked like.

Like he was seeing all the energetic form of her. The energetic form, but also he could see the organs and the blood vessels, but also the meridians and the energy lines and the aura and everything. And it suddenly occurs to him, he says in the book, just as an aside, oh, that's where acupuncture comes from. Wow. Like obviously some seers in the past kept on going out of body and seeing this. Yeah. Like, well, we may as well write this down. Yeah.

So, yeah, he's convinced that's how acupuncture came through. And again, he goes back to the alchemists from Europe, 17th century. This is Orbis Pictus in 1658 with this strange soul of man treatise that has this image. Check it out. It's like the same thing. Striking similarities. So these alchemists were going through all of this.

And going through the same, very much the same practices that would be perhaps less occult in the East. So after the holidays, he returns to university and he scours the library for more information on parapsychology. He finds this book by Oliver Fox. It's called Astral Projection, which he writes about his accounts from the 1920s. So it's pretty old. And I'm not going to go through it because it's like,

It's exactly the same thing that he went through with the dreams. Like Fox describes the precise same thing, like rushing up the spine, hitting the pineal gland, bursting out of the body. He describes the noise that you hear, the terrifying sounds. He describes the glows, seeing physical bodies like that on the screen there or his mother in the kitchen. All of it's in there that he describes smashing through the pineal door. And so...

He's starting to make some connections to alchemy. This is where he starts to realize, okay, these guys have been and done this, but it was all just so secret. They couldn't write about it plainly. So

Now you have to question, why would you have to write about it so secretly? Like, why is it that, is it just because it's a boys club or something? You want to keep the knowledge secret or? I think because of the power of the church is one idea that they would have been called heretics. Yeah. And persecuted. They would have been persecuted. That makes sense. But also, you know, some practices just aren't open to everyone. Yeah.

Like some, like Taoism, like we just discussed recently on a show. It's yeah. Like now it's open to people, but the idea with that Taoism is that only disciple to student, but only one disciple gets the true teaching. Like everyone else gets the basics, but there's like one guy, the teacher realizes, okay, he's the guy and he gets the actual teachings. And so the way the alchemists wrote about things is like, that was their way of sieving through the,

The chaff. The chaff, yeah. To find the one guy who got it. It's also, I mean, it's also cliche in a sense, but it's like trying to select the one who is worthy. Yeah, right. And there's other aspects as well. Like if you're going through those- To maintain integrity. Yeah, that's true. And if you're going through those initiations, like if you're going through those dream tests and then you read some alchemical treaty, you understand it.

it. The person who's not going through the initiations doesn't have any idea what it's about. And that's why alchemy was always like, oh, they're trying to turn straw into gold. They're trying to figure out this way to create gold or create new alchemical elements, which had nothing to do with what they were doing. It also appears that with this stuff that perhaps what people don't realize with alchemy is the thought has been from a very materialistic sense that it's like, you're right, turning straw or lead into gold. But the real treasure is some spiritual treasure.

That's what the real treasure is. It's nothing material. So he has another experience where this time he meets his other self, but it's not explained in great detail. He says generally this elder self gives him a refresher course on the history of the earth and the evolution of humankind. And it's very frustrating because he doesn't describe any of the content. He just says he saw it on this 3D hologram and it was like,

You would not believe how different it is to what we think about our evolution. I would. Yeah, we probably would. We would. Like I was reading this book the other day because remember we've spoken about how Steiner said in the past, Rudolf Steiner said back like thousands of years ago before Atlantis, human beings were like Gumby. That's right. And we were all bendy and our organs weren't set and we're all like,

You know, we were flexible and the bones weren't set. Like amoebas. Not quite like amoebas. But close. Like still, like the stretchy guy from Fantastic Four. Yeah. Maybe like that. And I came across a book where this woman's gone through all of that and explained her visions as well. And she's like, yeah, I concur. We were like bendy creatures. And she explains the whole evolution that she saw. So multiple people have described this over the years, that the way we think of human beings is,

is not actually what happened. Yeah. We're very limited in our understanding. Well, also, it's things that are coming out that, you know, we don't really consider, right? Because we only think, like, in the span of time, like, from a conventional sense, we only look at a very recent timeframe. But when you think about it, right, how far back could humanity possibly

possibly have existed or in a different form? And then how were the atmospheric conditions? How were the gravity conditions? You know, all these different things that we have no way of measuring or understanding. Yeah, that's a good point. It's like, well, that could explain why. Like, yeah, we had a physical form, but it was responding to the specific gravity that we had at that time, which is very different to now. Yeah, that's a good point. He then has another one of these moments where he's like, all right, I need to know what it's like to die. Actually, that's what led to the 3D vision of the Earth.

So he moves to Florida. He gets an internship for some architectural firm and he finds this yoga guru and he describes him as one of those like, you know, like a cliche that you would see in a TV show. He's like a yoga. He's a ponytail, doesn't he? He's a guru. Like he dresses in the sari. He's got the orange robes, but he drives like a BMW and he goes to parties and he's an A-lister and he's like one of those guys.

But this Swami goes up to him and says, the serpent fire of Kundalini is licking your brain. That's what's actually happening to you. He's like, all right, that's weird. So he then describes this feeling after a while of doing this internship in Florida.

Something happens as he's walking home from the office one day where he lets go of something he's been holding on to. And I can't quite remember what it was, but it was something really fundamental, like his ability to love or his compassion or something emerges.

And this strange glow starts to emanate from his skin. Like he claims that he looks down and he's actually glowing and he feels light as a feather. Like, is it his aura or is it just another? I don't know. I don't know. Spirit light. He walks home, feels like he's almost floating. And he says when he gets home, this strange tingling starts to arise from his feet. And it's going up his calves, reaching his hips. And it starts to go up his spine. And his spine starts to vibrate. And he's like, that's weird.

reaches up, slowly going up, reaches up to the center of his head and there's like light in his head. And he says his room is dark, but the light is shooting out of his head. And now his room is all lit up by this light in his head. He says, I lay astonished at the display of light, but exhausted yet exalted. I slipped between dreams and dazzling inner light shows the entire night. So he didn't even sleep.

Sounding familiar? Absolutely it is. Morning sunlight poured in through the windows, yet the continuum of consciousness hadn't been broken. He's like, what's going on? Am I going insane? So he goes to work where you have to wear a suit and everything. He shows up in his jeans with this old t-shirt and just, he's just like vibrating from his spine, energy shooting up his spine. Everyone's like, what's going on with you? He's like, oh boss, I don't like feel too well. I need to go home. He goes home. He can't eat. He can't sleep.

This goes on for days. He says he starts to move around in these strange postures he doesn't recognize and he feels energy moving through. But when it hits a blockage point, it's incredibly indescribably painful. You mean like a meridian? Is that? Yeah. Like he feels it hit a blockage and he's like, ah, it kills. Emotions pour out of him. And he says, I felt crippled by them. And this would

go between bouts of ecstasy to him just being a blubbering mess on his living room floor, like crying and just being, you know, hopeless. Still, while beams of white, orange and gold light are shooting out of his skull, like he's having a full on breakdown.

He says, I would laugh madly at the sheer joy of it. Don't they call these spiritual crises? Yeah. Is that what he's having? Yeah, this is what he's going through. Vibrating with energy and unable to sleep, I would go out into the night and climb trees. He said, there seemed to be no other way to work off the energy. I giggled and cried in turn. I was truly a madman now.

laughing to myself while sitting in tree branches at midnight, staring at the moon and the energy pouring forth from my skull. He's lucky he didn't get taken into custody. Yeah, totally. He said with no break again in the continuum of consciousness, sunlight came and I prepared for work. He said I could hold no food. And he noticed his trousers are starting to get really, really loose. Because he's losing so much weight. He's losing so much weight because he's burning all this energy and he can't eat.

He said he goes into work and like he's just an absolute mess, like a jittering mess. And the boss is like, Kevin, we haven't seen you for a few days, but today's the big meeting. So it's good that you're here. And he's like, like an addict, like he's on ice or something in this meeting. And he has this moment where he realizes that everything is a facade and like all of reality is an illusion. And so the work that these people are doing is an illusion and he finds it hilarious and

So he just, in the middle of the- So they lost that contract then. In the middle of a boss giving this big talk, he just starts cackling, like laughing from the pit of his stomach. And he says, as he's laughing, this pink beam comes out of his chest. Where's the soundboard? The pink beam comes out of his chest like, I don't know-

That works. And sprays over the entire boardroom. It hits everyone except the boss because the boss is giving a lecture at the top of the room. And he says. Sounds very unhygienic. In these meetings, if you have any kind of outbursts, it's not good. Well, it's unprofessional. Yeah. And he's like a lower ranked. He's just an intern. So he bursts out laughing.

But he said, because all the guys that got covered in the pink goo that came out of his chest. Don't say goo. They all start cracking up as well. And he says it was so bizarre. It was like this full minute of, you know, where you can't control yourself laughter. Yeah. That just went on 60 seconds. And the boss is just looking at everyone like, what is wrong with you people? So it was this infectious thing eventually gets sent home.

But he said, a curious phenomenon started to occur. My spine began to absorb and pull upward the power in my vibrating testicles up into my spine, which now grew hot for days on end. It's happening. This is the Kundalini rising. Simultaneously, he said, inner fantasies beat at the door of my attention, but I held my male elixir.

So he's in this weird state, his balls are vibrating, shooting up his spine. You know how I said it was unhygienic before? It's especially unhygienic now. Yeah. Now he's just got like this insane Kundalini erection, which will not go away. It's like he's had a whole lunchbox of Viagra. He's like this guy every day, just like, oh, I'm going to hold it in. He says, I found that if I put my focus into my forehead, my vision became like Superman's.

So he said he would look up into his forehead with his eyes closed and he could see like the Golden Gate Bridge from his apartment. No, wait, he's in Florida. He could see something far away. The Epcot Center. Yes.

But this is, again, depression, crying, can't eat, climbing trees at night. How is any of this a good thing? Do you see what I mean? People actually seek out these experiences. But is the spiritual reward really that rewarding? And he's like, whatever I do, I have to hold on to my male elixir. I cannot let it go. Is this like some weird no-fat month that has gone crazy? This becomes the most important thing. And he says, as he has this...

feeling that he has to hold on inner visions of women so unearthly in their beauty. He says, I cannot describe how sexy they were. They are relentlessly appearing before him, not just in his mind's eye, but like teleporting into his room. And they're doing like these moves, like sexy, paint me like a French whore poses, postures of undeniable sexual magnetism. He says,

These erections lasted for hours and hours at a time, he said, as the ethereal fluid continued to be drawn upward from my testicles up into my spine and on up into my head in the form of light. It did occur to me, this is why succubus and succubi are just such an integral part of our folklore in our history. Because there's obviously, there is energy in this. Like this is energy. And this is why they sit on people and try to take that energy.

Except now it's like he's accessing it. Yeah, that's what in the Eastern practices, they have rules for how often you can ejaculate depending on your age. Right. And I think like we're in our 40s. I think it's like once a week pushing it. Like any more than that, any more than that, forget it. It's done. You're just like spiritually finished. Yeah, you can't do anything. You're just like a husk. You're a husk of a man. You got to hang on to it, dude.

Um, and so eventually he said the inner orgies reached a crescendo and the personality of him being a 21 year old could not hold the flow any longer. The inner orgies? Is that why he didn't tell us much about himself before? Like the meeting he had? Was he just making out with himself? Is that what's going on? Well, in the end, he said the elixir was lost. The elixir. Oh, he lost the battle. And immediately everything stops.

Like everything, the visions, the feeling of the energy in the spine. He can eat again. He's like, I felt like a normal person again. So all he had to do was whack off and the whole thing would have stopped. Yeah. He just had to not participate in no fat month and everything went back to normal. He went back to work and they're like, okay, it's good to see you, you know, back to normal again. Yeah.

Um, the Swami that he was friends with gave him some kind words, but he said ultimately that, that yoga Swami didn't understand what he was going through. So what was he like? Not necessarily a charlatan, but it was, he just someone had a very superficial understanding. Probably a charlatan, like very, you know, low level understanding. Um, his lesson from it all, he said, I need to get to the Himalayas as soon as possible.

It's like, I've got to get to the Himalayas. Wait, okay. How do you go from having that kind of experience and then ejaculating and going, you know what? I need to go to the Himalayas. Maybe the girls in his visions were Himalayan girls. He's like, I've got to get to the Himalayas. There's like a yak in the background. He's like, you've been hanging on that long? Yeah. I mean, there's more. Obviously, there's more to why he needs to go to the Himalayas. Basically, the way I can describe it is he feels like

What he's going through is clearly in the Western tradition, the Western occult tradition, the alchemical tradition, but it's secret. It's not obvious. It's impenetrable. And he's like, I'm not going to get any answers through that. So it makes more sense to go to the East where the practices were very much the same to the point where he's like, is this the same tradition?

Well, it is. It is. Is this the same spiritual practice? Well, it is. It's just interpreted in a different way. Yeah. And so it's like, well, those practices still have, they're more open. You know, they're more accessible. They're not secret. Well, they're not. Yeah, yeah. They are secret, but, you know, it's easier to get them. Yeah. Not even that. Maybe it's just that they're more open.

readily accepted and not shunned as they are in the West? Yeah. So that's his reasoning. I've got to get to the Himalayas. So the way he does this is he shifts to a linguistics degree. He thinks if I can learn different languages, then I'll get a job overseas. So he shifts everything, drops architecture. And as he's doing this, he has another vision. So it's this spring afternoon. He's stretched out on his carpet floor. He's got a linguistics textbook on his chest and

And he feels it, the bells and everything, and he shoots up into his brain, pops out. And he now is standing in the light of the sun, the real sun. It's glowing in this weird ethereal form. And there's angelic laughter calling him from above. And he turns upward to find a spirit in white flowing robes twirling about, passing down through his ceiling, singing this song of choral delight, he says.

And the entity, he doesn't say if it's male or female, but the entity tells him, Kevin, we're going on a little trip. And immediately the floor under his apartment opens up and he starts falling through it.

At this rapid speed. He says it's like a glass elevator, shoong, straight down. And while he's falling, all these images are swirling around him. He says it looks like you're browsing Netflix with the little squares of the shows, but they're all swirling so fast around him, he can't make any of them out. And he's like terminal velocity flying down this glass elevator. And he's like, what's going on? What's going on? Then the entity's like, focus, focus, focus.

And he's like, ah, focuses on one of the flying thumbnails. And a memory. It freezes. Yeah. And it's like him as a five-year-old in some park. And he's like, he dives into it like Mario jumping into the painting. He's there experiencing that image or that memory again. And he basically, to put it, it's a long experience, but he realizes

starts to regress through time he's like a toddler but everything's going in reverse to where he's like can barely walk and then he's like being you know swaddled as a as a baby and then he's like there's this this like squelchy tightness and he's like and he's like he can hear this drum going boom boom boom boom this loud drum and he's like oh

I'm in the womb. And it keeps going, though. It doesn't stop there. It keeps rewinding. Does he go into another life? Yeah. Yeah. Great insight. So I love that you've been doing this show so long. You know exactly where the story goes. Aaron knows exactly every twist and turn.

He's in this timeless oblivion, but then the scene changes and he's looking over this bed and he notices that the room is all like 19th century, 1800s, you know, bits and pieces around the furniture and the bed. And immediately he recognizes the room. He's like, oh,

I died here. This is the room I died in. There's two men standing at the foot of this bed and they're looking serious. They're looking concerned. There's a woman sitting next to the bed who's softly sobbing. And he sees in the bed, two bony legs coming out from under the bed covers. And he knows they're his legs. And he doesn't want to look at the head. He's like, I don't know why. I just don't want to look at it. But the spirit urges him to look.

And it's the face of an elderly European man. It's his face. He recognizes it. He says the bygone decor of the room becomes clear. This is 1800s Germany. The spirit, he says, sears a name into my mind to assure it's not forgotten. He says I glide across the ceiling towards the door, but then he hears a telephone ring.

And he's like, the phones exist at that time? Well, he's like, it's so annoying because he's in this experience. He's like, that's me. It gets the doctor's name. This is Germany, 1800s. He's taking everything in. But there's this brrring, brrring.

And he actually starts to yell at the people in the room. He's like, can someone answer the phone? I'm having a moment here. And no one, everyone ignores him, obviously, until finally he's like, what the hell? And he opens his eyes. He's back in his apartment. No, it's his phone ringing. Oh, right. So he gets up. He answers the phone. There's no one there. You know, but you know when you sometimes you're on the phone with someone and

and this has happened to me when I got prank calls a couple of times when I was young you know we used to prank call each other you know that there's someone else on the end of the line yeah even though they're not talking yeah of course he's like that's what it felt like there's someone on the end of the line but they're not saying anything it's this silent phone call and eventually he's like all right and the call disconnects so he smiles to himself because he realizes that

The ring is a message. It wasn't like a wrong number or anything. He understands that the phone call is connected to this vision. It has a purpose. The phone call is perhaps from the other side or perhaps from who knows. And so we've seen these stories over the years of where these initiations, this entry into the metaphysical, into this other inner world, it reaches a certain point where we

You think these inner explorations are going to keep going and they do, but something very mysterious starts to occur where the outside material world starts to come in. Yes. As if it's always been connected to this hidden mystery of the inner world. And so, for example, we've had stories where people will have, you know, dreams and strange experiences of weird occult things and,

Then the next day, someone will show up at their door, some stranger who knows everything about them. Or they'll receive a phone call of someone saying, hey, now you have to go here or you have to meet this person. Well, I think the danger with a lot of this stuff is that you get this sense that we speak about this other realm, this other place as being realer than real. That's what's described. And I think sometimes when you start thinking that, we kind of discard this material world in that thinking and go, oh, well, this is all immaterial. Going back to him laughing at that, you know,

presentation. It's like, this is all irrelevant and it's all, no, no, no. The two coexist. They have to coexist for whatever purpose. I don't know. But that's why people start having these collisions between these realities. Well, what it seems to point to is the idea that there are individuals in the world that are connected. They are in communication with each other. They are networked. They form, you know, associations.

And they seem to be keenly aware of this inner world and use it to communicate and do various things and reach certain goals. And so this is his understanding. He says, no voice, there was no dial tone, only a presence on the other end. I had been called back. And the clue that he was left in that experience was the name of the doctor. So the spirit, again, remember, had seared it into his brain. So he starts searching.

He goes to the local library and he's going through all these records. And he's like, I hope I don't find anything because this is getting too crazy. And he said his heart sank. He finds the name of the doctor. In Germany at that time. Yeah, the doctor had lived when Goethe was still breathing in this world, he says. And I discovered the doctor's state of residence in Eastern Germany had been the locus of alchemy in earlier centuries.

He said, while searching for more, I discovered a volume titled Goethe, the alchemist, where he talks about the philosopher's stone and to acquire it through putrefaction was thus to undergo this death and rebirth. To acquire this philosopher's stone was to achieve full knowledge of God. So he left the library shaken because he realized, and this is

I'm going to have to leave the story here, but this will, if you want to get into this, this will set you off because this is so much like, this is just the start of this guy's journey. Um, basically he realizes, yes, he was this doctor in a previous life. This doctor was an alchemist. This German doctor started a project that he didn't finish. Intriguing. So is he, am I correct in thinking that this is all happening so that he can continue that project? Right.

So he's going through these initiations. This is all being gradually revealed to him so he can pick up where he left off in the previous life. It's not often spoken about, but there are spiritualists that describe, because we think that even in the sense of reincarnation, right, there's this idea that each and every lifetime you're given, essentially it's like a level. You're given a set of goals that you have to achieve. You have to go through something so you can level up.

But there's also spiritualists that suggest that each lifetime is for a greater quest, a greater mission, and you have to pick up on what happened the last time to continue that in this life. It's rare, but it happens. That's what they say in the East as well. The Tibetans would say you can't achieve enlightenment in one lifetime. It takes many lifetimes. So you've got to get to a certain point and then you've got to come back and ensure that you can pick up where you left off. And again, we've made the case during this show and Kevin's displayed how

what was going on in the East had its almost identical counterpart in the West. Well, you must tell us in the plus extension why he got called a simp. So he's about, he has this quest, like he's got to find the clue to what the doctor was working on. Like what was the doctor's quest? This alchemical quest in the 1800s that he couldn't complete. And he's trying to figure out where to go. And he's thinking, where in Asia should I go? I need to pick this up. I need to enhance my skills. Yeah.

And before he's about to leave for Thailand, I think he goes to first, he has a vision. And it's this Indian guy wearing like all the classic robes, you know, dot on the head and everything. He's never seen this guy before. And the Indian guy just says something to him like, we are waiting, buddy. Don't take too long. And then just disappears.

So that really sets it off. He ends up going to India. He goes to Thailand. He goes to Japan. Crazy experiences in Japan. He sees like ghost monks and all this weird spectral stuff. He goes to Tibet where he shares a vision with this Tibetan Lama. And the German guy that brought him to Tibet is horrified that he would burst out and say this to the Lama. Like he's breaking every faux pas in Tibetan, you know, language.

politeness. But the llama's like, okay, you are now my student. Take the room upstairs. Wow. And all the other students are like, what? So maybe he could only have known that if he'd reached a certain attainment. Yeah. He has some vision of a mandala and he describes it in detail to the llama. And he says, the llama's eyes kind of get a bit wide and he's like, all right, you're under my wing for a while. So I'll just tell you this little story. He's in Tibet and he's

No, it's not Tibet, obviously. It's because of the whole political situation. He's in Nepal, but it's this Tibetan monastery. And he's in this room below the Lama and he says, it's freezing. It's in the Himalayas. It's freezing. He says, every morning you got to get up at 5 a.m. and meditate for hours. But he says, every morning you wake up, it's like minus degrees. It's so cold. Like your face is covered in ice.

And he has just like a couple of yak skin blankets. And one morning he wakes up and it's like the coldest morning it's ever been. And he's like, all right, I got to get up and meditate. I got to keep doing my practice. But then he says to himself, he has this novel idea. He thinks he's like, no, I'm going to try something new today. I'm going to meditate lying down in my cozy warm bed. And so he tries this. And of course he's asleep within five seconds. He's back to sleep. And when he goes to sleep, he goes out of body.

And he's like, oh, cool. You know, I'll just meditate out of body. So he's sitting out of body. And again, the llama's room was above and it's like a stone ceiling. And he says, he looks up, he gets a feeling that something's happening, looks up and he says, the llama's body is

goes through the stone, like the llama looks through the floor and it's like, buddy, like checking on him. He's like, get back in your body right now and start meditating. And then he goes back up into the floor and disappears. Yeah, that's very cool. And he's like, all right, I better start. So there's all these cool stories. I'll link to it in the show notes. That's the new book from Kevin B. Turner. There he is with this llama picture behind him.

And, yeah, again, the book is The Secret Fire of Alchemy, Kriya Yoga, Kundalini, and Shamanism. Highly entertaining, highly recommended, and really it was eye-opening with those connections between what he was going through and those old alchemicals. Oh, yes. Anyone that says alchemy was – like he still searched that, alchemy. You know, the AI result is, oh, they tried to turn metals into gold and transmute to gold. No. No.

Anyway, I'll link to that in the show notes. Thanks for listening. That's a wrap for this free edition of MU. Tons more coming up. Aaron has a bunch of stuff that's going to gel, isn't it? Very much so. Yeah, fits into it very nicely about encroaching upon the astral realm and some of the weird experiences that while they seem like they're occurring in an astral place, it actually strongly impacts upon our physical reality.

which may explain why we have big foots that are phasing in and out, big cats appearing in people's backyards. We've got a story like that coming up in a moment, but we're going to dive all into that in a moment. Cool. Mysteriousuniverse.org forward slash plus. Sign up today, get access to the extensions we do every single Friday. And of course, an exclusive show comes out for members on Tuesday as well. Plus members get more than double the content when you sign up. You also get a higher quality MP3 version of the show for our audio, a totally ad-free version of the show. And if you sign up for MU Max,

It's all there on the site. You'll get access to our entire back catalog as well, going back 16 plus years. All the videos are on the website as well. Again, mysteriousuniverse.org forward slash plus. Sign up today. Links are in the description below if you're watching on YouTube. That's a wrap for this show. Thanks for listening. If you're on Plus, stick around for the great stuff after the break. For everyone else, we'll catch you next week. ♪♪♪

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