33.12 - MU Podcast - The Undergrounders
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Welcome to Mysterious Universe, Season 33, Episode 12. Coming up on this show, we've got the hungry crypto-terrestrials, the poltergeist formerly known as Prince, and the wart men who live among us. I'm your host, Benjamin Grundy. Joining me is Aaron Wright. The hungry crypto-terrestrials, is this some kind of expansion of like the Dero universe?

coming upon humanity and consuming us. Yeah, in a way. Yeah, I've been looking into the undergrounders. And you remember the Cassiopeia website project? Yeah, of course, the channeling stuff. 30 years ago, they started this project. Well, they've got an amazing sub stack, which we've been following on the POS episodes mostly, where they talk about this experiment they've been running. It's essentially channeling. It was started by Laura Knight Yadzik,

This lady way back in 1994 or something. Mm-hmm.

But it's essentially a Ouija board, but they're asking it questions about the whole UFO topic. And they started to get these responses from these entities that were claiming to be the Cassiopeians, from the Cassiopeian star system. Now, Laura has written a bunch of books. You wrote a bunch of books in the 90s about esoteric topics. Oh, we've covered a heap of them. Really good. We've covered a bunch of her work. That's my favorite official photo of her, by the way. Based. The aliens, they eat...

They eat the humans. The aliens are dead, honey. But she seems to be out of the picture now, but this project has kept on going. And they had a real skeptical approach to it. Like they don't take the information that comes in as gospel. Which you can't with channeling. Yeah, we don't really put much stock in channeled material, especially stuff from spirit boards. But what I find interesting, especially about their sub stack they've been running,

is you'll go into one of these articles, like one of these write-ups, say, where's a recent one on UFOs and UAPs part four. And so what they have is these Q&As with the spirit board. Yes. But then in between that is this deep dive into...

the, the material that kind of substantiates, substantiates what the spirit board is saying. And so you'll go into these rabbit holes where they just go off on these stories, story after story and case after case that is referencing what the spirit board is talking about. So for show fodder, it's been great. It's been awesome because they just send you on these rabbit holes. And I was excited to see that they just launched a book.

So this is from Harrison Coeli, who's on the project. It's called Beyond Disclosure, Underground Bases, Higher Dimensions, Alien Abductions and Cryptozoology. And so what he's done is basically compiled not their entire 30 years worth of transcripts, but a good chunk of it.

and built out, like expanded the research on what they've been getting from these Cassiopeians. And some of it's wild. Like you end up going on these rabbit holes of information. So what I'm focusing on today is the undergrounders. Yeah, the ultra-terrestrials. The crypto-terrestrials, the idea that...

The contactees who claim to be encountering Venusians and flying saucer occupants in the 1950s and onwards, there's the idea that these entities, or if these encounters were real, that these entities were lying about where they were from.

And this is a trend that we see eventually emerge repeatedly with contactees, where at first they're like, oh, cool, you're from Venus? Oh, these hot space blondes you've just got off the flying saucer. Oh, you're from Venus? That's amazing. But then after a while, the contactee, and we see this time and time again, they're like,

I don't know if those guys were telling the truth. Oh, there's been cases as well where the contactee starts pressuring the entities and then she's kind of go, oh, it's Venus, but not in the way that you understand Venus. Yeah, well, it's like we came from Venus, but we didn't say we were from there. Yeah. And so what eventually emerges, and we see this in occult circles as well, is this idea of

this hidden element that is completely separate from human civilization that exists either underground, under the ocean. And this is kind of coming back into mainstream ufological talk as well. And to Harrison's credit, he includes this

with some quotes from people like Grush, Gary Nolan. Really, what Grush is describing, what, underground facilities? Well, just some comments over the last five years where some of these guys are alluding to the fact that, well, we shouldn't presume

presume that we're dealing with aliens when we're talking about UAPs. We shouldn't presume we're talking about beings from outer space. Kiel was onto this decades ago. Decades ago. I mean, he was very quite clear later in his work that they're not extraterrestrial by any means. They're ultra-terrestrial, like they're likely from here.

But they're masquerading. They give us excuses and stories. And for what purpose? No one really knows. Why would you bother doing that? But maybe it's just simply because they are here, but they don't want us digging around their homes. And it was like the USO stuff. The reason why the USO stuff became...

a little bit more unsettling, certainly for the military, is because now that we have greater technology and we can get deeper into the ocean, we can explore further, we might be getting into their realms. Yeah, so that's some of the ideas we'll be exploring, the idea of the undergrounders who are essentially pretending to be entities from outer space when in fact they're just a few feet below you.

Like the Deros. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Developing mind lasers to force you into a frenzy of shopping just before Christmas. I never knew that Richard Shaver was in a mental institution for eight years before he wrote those books. Oh, what a surprise. Yeah. He was in it. He first heard the voices coming from his welding equipment.

But before that, he was in a mental institution for about eight years, nearly a decade. Because Amazing Stories, and people knew that that was supposedly fiction, but did... No, no, because Ray Palmer, that was always presented as a true story. Was it? It's like Amazing Stories had always been about fictional sci-fi stories. And then Shaver came along and he gave this transcript to Ray Palmer. And Ray Palmer was like, this is cool, but...

can you spice it up a bit? Like, write me something else. And so Shaver came back with a more fleshed out experience, story of what he was experiencing. And then Ray Palmer said, this is great. Leave it with me. He turned like, I think it was,

2,500 words into this 10,000 word article. Oh yeah, it was a long running saga. It was all like, no, no, no, that's just the first thing. The first thing given to Ray Palmer was 2,500 words and Ray Palmer turned it into 10,000. Like he basically wrote it himself. Didn't end up being though a saga as part of that magazine. Yeah, it ran for years. Yeah. Ran for years and years and years. But that's part of the same archetype that's appearing in a lot of these stories is this idea of these other beings down below. Mm.

who have plans on the surface people. I guess today it's a little bit more of a bitter pill to swallow because it's like, we have quite impressive technology to be able to see if there's things under us or around us. This idea that these beings could be living underground, it's almost as far-fetched as the idea of the Venusians living in a different dimensional plane. Probably more far-fetched.

Yeah, yeah, because we're right, we're here. Like we've got relative access to it, not complete, but I'm looking forward to seeing what this is. And in fact, it will tie in quite nicely with what we're going to be talking about in the plus extension, because it does cross into this realm of,

We've been talking recently about the dangers of believing these entities, like listening through and particularly channeling. In particular channeling, but also anything like interacting with these entities, you know, them coming down and telling you that you're important and that you have to help us because you've got a mission and it's always the same. Humanity is about to be destroyed. You're about to be saved as long as you do our duties for us.

There's a warning amongst this that these people are seemingly genuinely having experiences. Not everyone's psychotic that has these stories and not everyone's a liar. I'm sure plenty of people do make up stories for attention. I mean, just look at look at IRL streamers, for example. I mean, people just love attention and will do or say anything to get attention. Did you see the guy that dropped a toaster in his bath the other day? No.

He is on stream. He's like, is this going to hurt? Is this going to hurt? He drops it. I don't know if it was fake, but he drops the toaster and gets electrocuted. The stream dies. Oh, I'm more talking about these idiots you see traveling through high trust societies and, you know, robbing people and, you know, doing ridiculous things and being surprised when they get arrested. You know, it's like, but my point is, is that that is an attribute of human, you know, humanity will do whatever they can for attention. And I think that is,

like a new incantation, incarnation, sorry, not incantation, a new incarnation of what possibly contactees were doing back in the 60s. Yeah, I agree. There's definitely an element of that. Yeah, so that's why some of these stories, you absolutely have to be very careful when you approach them. But I think there are some people that are being messed with, interfered with by...

spirits, some type of non-human intelligence that enjoys watching these people be messed around. Well, it's interesting, and we'll get into this, but the story of people from a removed civilization, a higher advanced beings from a removed civilization still on the earth,

something new. It's not something from the last hundred years. You can go back to the 17th century and find the same kind of archetype, the same ideas being spread and being popular. So yeah, looking forward to going to that. What is the, what is the poltergeist formerly known as Prince? It literally is a poltergeist that calls itself Prince. But,

But we'll get into it. We'll get into this unusual haunting, which ties into what can happen when you meddle with these things. It can be quite disastrous. Well, Beyond Disclosure is available now from Harrison Coeli, Underground Bases, Higher Dimensions, Alien Abduction, and Cryptozoology. I'll link to it in the show notes at mysteriousuniverse.org. And again, you can find a ton more of this content from the Cassiopeian Experiment website.

Cassiopeia. It should be Cassiopeia, actually. Cassiopeia.substack.com. Yeah, long-running channeling experiment started by Laura Knight-Jadzik, as I said, back in 1994. She wrote The Secret History of the World and How to Get Out of It Alive.

She's still going. She's still around. She's on Twitter. Is she? Yeah, she just posts like, you know, your average right-wing American politics stuff. Yeah, yeah, yeah. She doesn't post anything paranormal or UFO related anymore. Oh, she's just had enough. Firmly feet on the ground now. She's had enough. So here's the experiment. So participants in this Cassiopeian experiment would use a spirit board to source the communications information.

The sessions are conducted as a dialogue, so it's a Q&A, and so you get these transcripts of this Q&A. Answers are delivered at a rate of one to two letters per second, but often they would get full paragraphs of information coming through.

with accurate spelling, basic punctuation. The communications purport to involve beings who refer to themselves as Cassiopeians, the Cs for short, and cover a wide range of topics, including science, metaphysics, history, politics, and the so-called paranormal. And they've got the entire transcripts online at cassiopeia.org.

It's just like millions and millions and millions of pages of material. The fact that they're still going just blows me away. But unlike many other channeling efforts, the Cassiopeian experiment employs a systematic and skeptical methodology. The participants aim to apply scientific standards and critical thinking to this, what they describe as scientific mysticism. So it's the idea that you're not trusting the information at

you know, at point blank, at face value, thank you, but that you're, you know, you're not throwing everything out at the same time. No, you're using it as a tool. That's right. You know, you're using a honed eye and being very careful about what's coming through and providing critical analysis. So again, like I said, what's great about their research is the authors try and buttress the information with all this other stuff

all this other research. So you're going through all these other sources to try and back up the channeled information. And so I skipped straight ahead to this part two, Underground Bases and Civilizations. They've got this great art in the book. There's this kind of

rectangle portal opened up in the side of a mountain to some underground base. Well, this is channeling Rex Gilroy and some of his claims as to what people have seen in the Blue Mountains of Sydney. Yeah. So they start talking about Agartha to the Deiros to crypto terrestrials with this talk of the undergrounders. And they write that several types of sources talk about an underground realm and the people who populate it.

And they actually start with the myths of the underworld, whether it's from Hades or Zabalba. They talk about the Hopis as well, the ant people, how the ancestors emerged from the underground world.

The Wingmakers is a more modern example of that as well. What's the Wingmakers? The Wingmakers was like this civilization that, you know, remained or put their remains underground and that you can go underground and find their, you know, their, I guess, what would it be, realm. And in there is like, what's it called? Suspended animation bodies and technologies. And it's all like, it forms part of, it's like a modern kind of folklore. Okay.

Well, again, this is an example of just the rabbit holes you can take with this information. Like you can go into the Kachinas, for example, who were, according to the Hopi tradition,

oral traditions, benevolent spiritual beings that came from the underworld with the Hopi people. They emerged from the ground near the villages where the Hopi continue to live today. The Kachinas taught the people how to make tools, hunt, heal sickness and live off the land. Great outfits. Herbology and her, well, that's supposedly what they look like. So they're dressing up like the ancient Kachinas to lure them back.

But when enemies attacked the Hopi, the Kachinas were killed and their souls returned to the underworld. There's another version of the mythology that says over time they just returned to their underworld realm. So again, it's the same idea of these other beings coming and teaching humans

how to live, how to build a civilization after a great calamity, after a destruction. But again, it's like they came from this other place. They came from underground. And what's this mask you put on the screen? It's the same thing. It's another depiction of the Kachina. Then there are more modern accounts. You've got Agartha populated by technically advanced hidden masters. There's these caves and tunnels underneath Asia and Central Asia. We've done a ton of those stories over the years.

But it really starts to flesh out when you get into the occult world, when you start talking about the Theosophists and the Alchemists. That's right. The Brotherhoods. The Brotherhoods. Ascended Masters. Ascended Masters. So they do a good job of...

Trying to get into the origins of this. And a lot of it started, one of the first mentions of these mysterious others comes from this 17th century source. It's a alchemist. His name was Dr. John Frederick Schweitzer.

He wrote under the pen name Helvetius, and he claimed to have been visited by a stranger. And this is the old story of the stranger, this mysterious stranger demonstrating the use of the philosopher's stone to transmute in a straw into gold. And so this is 1666. Dr. Johann Helvetius, that was his pen name, respected physician and skeptic of alchemy, was visited in The Hague by a mysterious stranger.

The man turned up at his doorstep one night, you know, moderately dressed, just looked like a regular guy, but carried himself with this quiet authority. There was something strange about him. He claimed to possess the legendary Philosopher's Stone and offered to prove its power. So this guy's like, this guy's a skeptic. This is an alchemical skeptic. He didn't believe in any of this stuff. At first, Helvetius hesitated, but the stranger returned days later and was actually allowed into Helvetius's laboratory.

And before his eyes, according to the story, he had like a little container with some strange powder and he ended up casting some of the powder onto lead. And according to the story, it started to transmute before his eyes into pure gold. The gold was later tested by a local goldsmith and confirmed to be genuine. The stranger refused money, revealed nothing about himself, and in Helvetius' own words, disappeared without leaving a trace.

So I don't know if he just left his house, but... Or if he just literally vanished. Just vanished in front of him. But this is the source. Like he can download, this is in some European library somewhere. Half of it's in Latin. You know, this is a real documented account from this guy, you know, and he was an alchemist and this is why he was convinced that alchemy was a genuine thing. So I'll link to that in the show notes. But what's intriguing is how the story changed, right? So the story...

It got sort of republished in the 1700s where a little bit of dramatic flair was added, like maybe the detail that the guide vanished was added in the 1700s. But then it really got cooking in the 1800s when the Rosicrucian versions of this story emerged and like an occult version of this story emerged and some spicy details that got left out got re-added.

And so this time the stranger was more than just a wandering alchemist. According to the newer reports on this encounter, Helvetius was told by the stranger that he dwelt within the earth and belonged to a hidden brotherhood that guides the rulers of mankind.

The secret adepts, according to the embellished version, held the ancient power of transmutations and subtly influenced the course of history from behind the scenes. The stranger then again vanished as suddenly as he had appeared, leaving behind a mystery. So that is the kind of thing that someone like Helena Blavatsky would come across.

Just, you know, a few decades later. And it's interesting, like the authors use this as, again, buttressing the argument that there's these entities, this hidden force. Guiding humanity. The ascended masters are down there guiding humanity. But when you look into it, it's like, well, this was all added in.

in the 1800s. What was it about this time period and what followed that made this such an enticing idea? Because it was popular at the time. It must have been like a psychological phenomenon for the time. And I think though that when you actually try to understand this, if there were some group, like why would they remain underground? Why would they just not integrate into human society? I

and hide in the shadows like why do they have to have some lair somewhere but to see what it fits in with have you seen the world well i mean this is what people say every like you talk to older people now and they go oh i don't know what's happening to the world but you hear every generation you hear that like i don't know what's happening so in the 1600s in the 17th century the people that lived in the under under earth cities were like gross europe's gross isn't it like but

The fiction of the time, like Journey to the Center of the Earth and that kind of stuff. Like it's, I mean, that may be a little bit later, but I wonder if at the time it was like as a society, you know, where would they describe that these people would live? It would be underground. Oh yeah, that's a good point. Yeah, because the idea of them coming from outer space was a little bit too... A little bit too much. It's out of the range of imagination at that period of time. That's a really good point actually.

Well, you know, speaking of Blavatsky, she comes along in 1851. And so she's obviously read a lot of these, you know, spiced up accounts of these strange alchemists. And her story is 1851. She notices a tall Hindu man in a hotel lobby in London. And it's a man that she's seen many, many times in her dreams. She recognizes him instantly.

He approaches her and tells Blavatsky that he's been waiting for her. It was planned a long time ago, he explains. They keep talking and he reveals his name is Master Moria and that's how he introduces himself. And he explains that he has a special mission for her. Blavatsky had to go to a secret school in Tibet that Moria ran together with his friend Master Kuthumi.

After he said that, he literally vanished into thin air, just like the alchemy story. It's the same story. So it's the same thing. It's like hidden masters from this secret underground realm. What about Alice Bailey, another theosophist from the same time period, a little bit after Blavatsky died?

She discusses the idea of this spiritual hierarchy, a spiritual brotherhood, a group of advanced souls referred to the masters of wisdom. Same thing. They work behind the scenes, away from human civilization, guiding the evolution of humankind. Bailey describes these masters as hidden from the general public. And there's an externalization she writes about in her books where these beings will no longer remain hidden. She talks about an emergence, a reappearance. Now,

She said in her book, The Externalization of the Hierarchy, when the hierarchy is externalized, it will constitute of a body of illumined minds and included in its ranks will be disciples who are integrated into its outer ashrams. And so that's the idea of like a sleeper cell. There's like a fifth column of initiates who are waiting within society. They're embedded within society. And when the right moment strikes, they're going to be activated.

And so Bailey wrote about this in the terms of a spiritual sense, right? Some kind of spiritual revolution for humankind. But what's intriguing is we'll find, if we keep listening, we'll find out that this is the exact, exact same scenario that's put forward by the contactees in the 1950s. Like less than a hundred years later, the exact same blueprint just spiced up a bit this time with aliens. So,

Many of these core ideas come from fictional accounts as well. Like you've got Edward Bulwer-Lytton, the English Rosh Hacushian. He wrote The Coming Race back in 1871. So this guy, again,

It's like you can't credit him with it because it was a story that was circulating in occult circles before he wrote his book. But he's picked up on this idea and come up with this idea of, you know, the real energy. And he wrote a story about an Englishman traveling to the inner earth and meeting these people. But this time he made them like the archetype of the hot Pleiadians. Yeah. Like.

blonde, tall, uber men, blue eyes, superior physically, superior spiritually. They had advanced technology. They had an advanced society. He ends up telling this love story where he falls in love amazingly, just happens to fall in love with one of these 10 out of 10 supermodels under the earth, but realizes they'll never be compatible. And so he has to flee. But he's always worried about the threat that these advanced uber men are

will face to the people on the surface of the planet when they emerge. So again, it's this idea of the impending emergence of these inner people. Then you had the smoky God from 1908 from Willis George Emerson, which we've covered a bunch of times. Etta Dorfer was another one from the late 1900s. So there's a ton of these that were just, it was all the rage to have a story about the inner earth men, the inner earth super people around this time period.

Uh, there was also, I think you covered this guy on the show, Theodore Ilion's darkness over Tibet in 1938. That was the explorer who claimed he went to Tibet, found himself in an underground Tibetan city. Remember there was a sorcerer involved. Yeah. Uh, who had all the naughty things that the Tibetan priests were getting up to. Yeah. And he wanted to control the world with telepathy. Yeah. Remember that story? That guy never went to Tibet. He never got anywhere near Tibet, but that was a very popular story. Um,

And then you had, we've covered Ferdinand Ossendowski, who, remember, he traveled to the region in, well, supposedly traveled in 1922. But that was the thing. There's so many of those books that are out there that it's like, oh, I traveled to Tibet and had these incredible adventures. And it's like, you've never left the country. And he claimed to have heard the story or the prophecy of the king of the world. Yes. Who was going to emerge in the near future and die.

there would be a great fight between good and evil and the people from Agatha would emerge. And his story was identical to that. What's that French guy's name? Sonve Alexandre or whatever his name was, who came up with the identical story 10 years earlier. And Ossendowski was like, what, what are you talking about? I didn't get, I didn't steal it from him. This is my story. So my point is that this was circulating and the,

It starts to get really intriguing on how this started to merge into the 1950s. So like less than 100 years later, these ideas didn't go away. Well, not just merge, but transmute. Yeah, they start like destroying to gold. They started to transform. And so the authors point to the excellent Håkan Blomqvist, who wrote an article about this back in 2022. And I've got it on my...

screen here ancient breakaway civilizations a source study hokan's a brilliant guy make sure you check out ufoarchives.blogspot.com uh he's done a great job going through some of these accounts and he tells this story about uh i think it's an australian author actually he was reading this book hokan was rereading this book called day of the descendants it's from tony brunt

And it's a fiction novel, right? It's about a young boy. His name's Tim Baker and he's hiking in the mountains in New Zealand and he saves this woman that's like stuck in a crevice. She's been trapped there for a day and he rescues her and she's so thankful and she says, like, come with me. I want to show you something. And she leads him to a flying saucer that's parked nearby.

She belongs to an ancient, highly advanced civilization called the Descendants, numbering in tens of thousands. They live unknown to mankind in large subterranean bases. Now, because this character in the story had saved the life of this woman, he becomes involved in this secret group that has their people above ground that is doing the bidding of this hidden secret group.

Um, they keep an eye on threats to the planet. They kind of infiltrate politics and stuff like that. And so what's intriguing, if you look at the cover of this book from Tony Brunt, it says based on the fragments of a true story. And so Håkan reached out to him and said, Hey, Tony, um, what's the true story? Where, what are the fragments? What are you talking about? And he wrote back to him and said, look, I have no doubt that there are others living in a more advanced state in hidden places on the planet.

And Hakan writes that this theory has been advanced in different ways by researchers for many years. He talks about Jacques Vallée tackling this idea. Alan Hynek, they wrote about that in The Edge of Reality. Mac Tonnies in Crypto Terrestrials back in 2010. John Keel wrote about this in 1982. He said they have hidden behind the extraterrestrial myth. Keel was convinced this activity wasn't extraterrestrial. Yep.

It was local, hidden factor among human beings on this planet. Kiel said, forget the flying saucer propaganda. We are dealing with something very close to home. During my many years of investigation, Hakan writes, of the contactee cases, I have pondered whether this could actually be the answer to some of the physical contact experiences reported worldwide, some of them very real.

He says, if we are partly dealing with one or more groups of Earth-based and undiscovered aliens, we are faced with an even greater enigma than extraterrestrial visitors. Well, I mean, there are multiple reports, contactee reports, abductee reports of people claiming that they have gone underground. They find that they don't leave. There's still a spaceship of some kind, a saucer, but they go underground. Then it's also consistent with these reports of MILABs, military abductions, where they

The abductee claims to see some type of grey alien or reptilian alien working with a human being, but suggesting once again that it's some underground facility. The PC gave us computing power at home, the internet connected us, and mobile let us do it pretty much anywhere. Now generative AI lets us communicate with technology in our own language, using our own senses. But figuring it all out when you're living through it is a totally different story. Welcome to Leading the Shift.

A new podcast from Microsoft Azure. I'm your host, Susan Etlinger. In each episode, leaders will share what they're learning to help you navigate all this change with confidence. Please join us. Listen and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. I'll link to the article in the show notes, and he's got a big list of...

Contactees and UFO researchers who have come across this same idea multiple, multiple times in the cases that they've investigated. So one of them is the Blue John case was investigated by Timothy Goode and it was in his book, The Classic Alien Base from, what was that, early 2000s.

It's the story that after observing a landed craft with two visitors entering a car, a Mrs. Marchment became closely involved with the visitors. On several occasions, she cooked meals for them at her London flat. She was told that their group would intervene in the event of a nuclear catastrophe if it threatened to destroy our planet. If the visitors were actually Earth-based, such a plan would be a first priority. Yeah.

Yeah, why would aliens care? Yeah, it's because with the contactee stuff, much of the contactee stuff, which did follow on from the Second World War, I mean, that's where it really did take off, obviously, with the rest of the ufological phenomenon. But the thing was, the biggest threat was the Cold War. People were concerned about nuclear war.

And people were having contact with these beings and these beings were warning everyone about the dangers of nuclear energy and what humanity would do to itself, frying itself to a crisp. But when you fit into the context of it being a breakaway or a hidden clandestine underground civilization, well, even though they're underground, if humanity were to nuke the planet, that's very bad for them. Starts to make more sense, doesn't it? Especially when a lot of these nuclear tests were underground. Underground. Yep.

They weren't in the atmosphere. And so I love these stories where it's like, it's some kind of a saucer craft dropping people off, like drops them off in a car. There's like an Uber service for people when they get dropped off by the flying saucer. Was it, was it Nick Redfern? I mean, I know that might've been an older report come from an older report, but I do recall the case of where some egg shaped craft dropped

is seen coming from the woods and the from what i recall the eyewitnesses saw it drop down next to a men in black style brand new but old shiny car yeah the egg opens and out from it emerges three or four men they climb into a car and drive off they get dropped off there's like an uber there's like a secret uber service to pick people up who are dropped off by flying saucers

We see multiple cases like this. There's one from an eyewitness named Leland that appeared in Dr. Artie Clark's book. What's that one? Encounters with Star People. I recall this story. Yeah. So this happened during several nights at his ranch near the Nebraska border. He said they come at night. They hold.

They hover over the field. They lower automobiles to the ground. That's right. Yes. They're filled with people. The craft goes away. And when the car returns the next night, only the driver returns. They take the car and the driver on board their spacecraft and then they're gone again. So they're dropping people off and not bringing them back. So where do those people go?

Well, as I was pointing out earlier in the show, they're integrating into human society. Yeah, that's the argument, that they're infiltrating, they're becoming a part of our surface civilization. Then you've got Walter Bosley, and Walter Bosley, I've got to read more of his books. The guy's a genius. He wrote that Latitude 33 book about Disneyland. He wrote The Empire of the Wheel. He's the guy that's gone more depth into the Del Chal universe

1800s airship phenomenon than anyone else. He's got a bunch of books, but he wrote this article in a Fate magazine issue back in 2005 under a pen name. Where is E.T.? No, it's not. It's called The Other Paradigm. And it's one where maybe he used a pen name because he revealed some family details. He claims that his father...

had worked for a special assignment team in the U.S. Air Force and that they were a crash retrieval program. That's what his dad did. He claims that his dad had inspected the remains from several crashes, including human-looking aliens, and was briefed at Wright-Patterson about the real nature of the craft and the aliens. And this is a quote from Bosley in the article. He said...

Well, this is what his dad told him. A civilization thrives underground, hidden from the surface world. These people are not extraterrestrials. Quite the contrary, they are among the oldest people on this planet. Occasionally, they come and go, emerging in their vehicles, and occasionally, they crash. They are human in appearance, so much so that they can move among us with ease, with just a little effort.

So again, it's the same story. You have Eugene Drake. This is a really interesting one. How long have we been doing this show? Like 17 years?

You ever heard of Eugene Drake? No. I mean, obviously, automatically I go to the Drake equation, but that's not him. No, this is a contactee. And Hakan writes about him. Hakan actually has a whole article on Eugene Drake simply asking the question, why has no one looked into this guy? Because he's the contactee before contactees. Really? He's before Adamski. There's a quote from him. He wrote about this in 1950.

He said, there is an ancient civilization living underground. There's entrances in Mexico, not a great distance from Mexico City. So they often come to the surface and mingle with the people. But aside from a few mystics, the people of Mexico do not know this.

And they would have a difficult time if they did to locate the entrances to these underground cities. It's probably a volcano because if you look into the 2010s and beyond, there's all those alleged reports of UFOs dropping down into volcanoes. So is that some type... And of course, that's the last place that you... Even without technology, you wouldn't be able to plunge through molten rock. But who was this guy? And...

Did he just take this idea from the occult stuff that was earlier? Did he take it from the Theosophist? Well, that's a possibility. Well, uh...

Hocana writes this article about him and asks, where's the investigation? Where's the in-depth study on this guy? It hasn't been done. And all these first-generation contactees from this era, from the 40s and 50s, have really very much been ignored in terms of serious study. He says Alan Hynek and Jacques Vallée simply dismissed these guys as charlatans.

especially Hynek and Valet, should have known there was a deeper level to some of these wild claims because they're more esoteric in nature. At the surface level, they appear nonsensical. They appear made up.

that's kind of silly. But like I'm trying to do on this segment is explain to you that this is connected to something that is older. It's an idea that is pervasive. It is hanging around. It's not going anywhere. And it seems to pop up again in different forms over time. So this guy is an example. He wrote a bunch of pamphlets about

It's like he started working on this stuff in the 1930s. And Hakan says that this guy, Eugene Drake, drew the...

a Damski-style flying saucer decades before a Damski. I can see it on the right there. Which is a pretty, like with the bulbs underneath it, that's a pretty wild claim. Or was it that that was just a lampshade of the time? Yeah, maybe. But Hakan says much of what George Adamski said seems almost copied from Drake's booklets.

So could it be possible that Adamski just found Drake's booklets and then just ran with the story? Yeah, he was probably a subscriber. Maybe he was a subscriber paying for his little magazines that he was producing. And so this guy, the kind of proto-Adamski, said they were from underground, said that these entities, these sources came from underground. And then you've got this great story on Frank Howard. I couldn't find a photo of this guy. He's Australian.

Very, very hard to find his work. He wrote four books. This one's called Journey in Space with Alizantil. It's like the Valentich abduction, the drawing. How it's sucking up the plane. Yeah. Yeah, it does. I didn't notice that.

So you can buy one of his books, his fourth one on Kindle. For like, what, $700? No, it's just like $7 on Kindle. And he wrote it in a really flowery, it's almost like a poem, like you're reading a poem. But you strip away the flowery language and it's a full-on hardcore contactee, go aboard with the Space Brothers, travel the universe kind of story. Is it set in Australia? Yeah.

Well, yeah. Yeah. One of the, I guess the protagonist is him. So Hakan said when he first read these books, he was like, okay, this is fiction. This guy's just made it up. But then he found this YouTube lecture by an Australian ufologist. His name's Martin Gottschall. And this was at the 1996 Australian UFO conference.

That's him on the screen there. And I'll link to the video in the show notes. I'm not going to play it because he's got a really thick South African accent and the recording is really bad. Like I tried to clean it up, but... Even with AI and you couldn't... No, I'm just going to tell you the story. So yeah, this guy, Frank Howard, he wrote several books. The first is A Planetary Saga, deals with the origins and history of the Earth and humanity. The second is called Journey Into Space with Alexander.

And it basically tells the author's story, Frank, how he met this extraterrestrial named Alexander with his wife, Alonza, and they traveled across the earth in a flying saucer. They visited various continents and then penetrated into solid ice to enter a base in Antarctica.

In his third book, The Return of Alexander, he recounts meeting Alonzo, visiting a meeting of UFO Queensland in the late 1960s. I'm a member of UFO Queensland. I never get to go to any of this stuff because it's always on a Friday. But I'm a paying member. So he went there with these aliens in the late 1960s.

And this guy, Frank, it's like he never said that these were fiction. And so people have just assumed that he's been making it up, that they were just fiction accounts. But along comes, yeah, along comes Martin Gottschall, this guy on the screen here.

And he started looking at Frank. He said, I got to know Frank in the late 1970s. I discovered one of his books and was impressed by its content. And he's like, I found out he lived in Brisbane. So I looked at the guy up and he said, I went to visit him. We had some great chats.

And he said a friend of mine named Bob Lukoff came to know Frank as well. And he said it might have been through one of our meetings, but he too started visiting Frank on Sunday afternoons. And they'd have these get togethers where they'd talk about, you know, people were interested in UFOs and flying saucers and they'd have these little talks. Anyway, he said one event stands out. During one of Bob's visits, Frank was suddenly joined by two elderly women with this unusual man that was with them.

And he said from a distance, this guy's skin appeared to be covered entirely with what looked like strange warts. Every visible inch of his skin had these warts. They were small, about a quarter of an inch or less in size, packed tightly together like tiny eruptions, like scales almost.

He almost looked like that. There are medical conditions that could produce that, probably not to that extreme, but I would imagine that there could be something that could cause that effect. He said, yet when Bob shook the man's hand, no thanks, he noticed the skin felt smooth and silk-like, not at all as rough as you would expect from something resembling warts.

Bob later described both fascinated and unsettled by this figure, as you might be when encountering someone who looks truly different from an ordinary human being. Well, it kind of looks like smallpox. Yeah, I mean, it looks contagious. Which obviously is eradicated, so yeah, you would elicit a response, surely. It's like you meet this guy at a conference and he, oh, I love your podcast, goes to shake your hand.

You're talking from personal experience. You're just like, no, I don't know. I've got a cold, man. I've got a flu. I don't want to shake your hand. It's disgusting. Disgusted. If that's what the aliens look like, they can stay underground. Okay?

Well, maybe that's why they stay underground. It's because as human beings, we're just all such scumbags that we can't accept them into our society. I'm going to judge that guy based on the color of his skin. Literally. Not by the content of his character. Yeah, the bumpage of his skin. Yeah, the bumpage. So anyway, they spend some time conversing and eventually Bob left and he tells the encounter to, what's his name again? To Martin, the guy that's telling the story.

And Martin said, look, what really got me thinking about this is Duncan Rhodes. You know Duncan Rhodes, the editor of Nexus Magazine? Duncan told Martin the story of

that in response to some of his work on the magazine, one day Duncan got a call with a man with an extraordinary story. Now, this man called Duncan and he claimed to be a radiologist from the Royal Melbourne Hospital during the 1960s. That was what he did. And he says that one night while working the graveyard shift, he was informed that he got this phone call telling him he needed to urgently prepare for x-rays, that there was someone coming in that needed x-rays.

And he's like, okay, I'll get everything ready. It was like three in the morning or something. He says shortly after the call, security personnel bring in a dead body through the back entrance. And he's like, okay, had everything ready. They placed this body in the x-ray machine and the radiologist was instructed to carry out the imaging. What struck him immediately, this is what the guy said to Duncan, is that

was that this dead body was covered head to toe in these wart-like structures all over his skin, just as Bob had described. However, upon touching the body, the radiologist said he found the skin to be strangely silky soft.

just as Bob had noticed years earlier. And after completing the task, the security personnel whisked the body away. All of his X-ray images were confiscated. He never heard anything about it again. When the term security personnel is used, do they mean, is it

Police? Is it military? I don't know. Government? That's a good question to ask, yeah. How do you know their security personnel? What do they look like? Do they have earpieces out of a movie set or something? Well, I imagine they wouldn't have back in the 1960s. Yeah, are they in uniforms? Yeah, uniform is what kind of would make me think. Are they armed? So while Duncan recounted this story, Martin said Bob's story clicked in my mind. I'd always thought the man Bob encountered was simply an unusual human.

But he said, now I wondered, was he perhaps not human at all? Could Bob have met the very same type of being that this radiologist described? So that's the idea, that one of these weird, horrible wart people was going to this Frank guy, Frank Howard's house. Frank Howard wrote all these books about meeting these aliens and going on these trips to their underground bases in Antarctica. And so Martin said that we started to look into...

into Frank Howard and he says what impressed me so much about what he wrote was no one filled in the gaps the way Frank did so this guy was completely not educated like finished his high school and that's it wasn't university educated but he seemed to be very very very informed on anything to do with these occult UFO matters and no one could figure out how he knew so much and

He said, I often wondered how someone with Frank's modest background could produce works of such quality and the discrepancy puzzled me for years. Anyway, this guy, Frank Howard, he eventually moved away to Canberra, passed away. But he said, Martin said, we now have enough circumstantial evidence to suggest that Frank wasn't writing imaginatively, that he actually was a contactee.

And that people from other worlds quite literally walked through his front door, sat down, had a cup of coffee and a chat. Do you know what the question always is in my mind, though? Why him?

Like, why do they just randomly choose people to wander through their front doors and just sit down and talk to them and tell them all this stuff? Is it simply part of some wider program they have that they figured they'll just hit every aspect of human society and get it to, you know, kind of disseminate that way? Yeah. Why was Frank one of the chosen ones? Wouldn't you like to have this one of these bumpy skin guys in your house?

Serve them tea? No. How would you explain it to your wife? But like, well, you know, bumps or not, I'd be like, if some random person shut up the front door, I'd be like, yeah, I'm not interested. So, man, is that what they do? Especially with the bumpy scene. Do they just find people that are probably more willing to engage with them? Is that what it is? I don't know. Remember that story of the guy who claims that he was offered to run away with this hot woman on a flying saucer? Not- It's an Aussie guy.

And he turned it down and he always remembered that it just seemed like a real offer, like there's something about it that was real. And it's because she thought he was hot that she made this offer to him. Maybe Frank Howard was just hot. Maybe, and now he's gone. Yeah. Yeah, maybe that's the explanation to a lot of these. But in these books, he wrote about these –

inner caverns deep beneath the planet's surface. He said many UFOs are sighted running into the thousands, some of which craft a solid as to the three-dimensional substance. Others are as apparitions. He said many, many million people dwell within these inner caverns in their towns and inner cities in environments that have been artificially created and

And he talks about plant life, thousands of miles of tunnels of roadway connecting these dwelling places, vehicles traveling deep beneath the oceans and continents and mountains. So again, same idea that these, they're not aliens from Mars. They're not from Venus. They're not Pleiadians. They're from the earth. The thing is though, wouldn't that suggest that we would have more modern reports of

And we're not really getting modern reports. There are not really people coming out these days in the last 10 years or so saying, well, I've got contact with these underground civilizations. You just don't hear it the way you used to. Do they give up? I do have some modern accounts, some modern comments coming up. In the last 10 years? Yep. In the last two years. Howard Menger is another one. Timothy Goode interviewed him in 1978. Howard Menger said...

I asked them where they came from and they told the truth, but I believe it's a possibility they might have distorted that answer. So that's when they told him that they came from Venus. Yeah. And he's like, okay, I don't think they were Venusians. He says, I interpreted as that, but I think I may have been wrong. Later, he said, it is very possible that there are civilizations that are right on this planet that are living right here on this planet and

They don't want anything to do with us, how it's said. So again, another prominent contactee from this time period saying the same thing. Can you blame them though? I mean, maybe they've got just some, maybe they've got some high ethical standard and it's like, well, we can't wipe out humanity, but we just don't want anything to do with them. Maybe that's what it is. Because if it was an invading force, you'd just wipe out the surface population. Unless they don't have enough power, that's the other possibility. It's just not enough of them. Mill and Cook are

another one of these silent contactees. She wrote that article that appeared in 1947 in Fantastic Adventures, one of Ray Palmer's magazines. And I covered this in a PLOS episode a few months ago. But she used this pen name, Alexander Blade, and she was saying the same thing. Remember, 1947, it's pretty early. She's talking about flying saucers under the earth. Well, it's at the dawn of the phenomenon. Been there for ages. And then you've got the Shaver mystery as well. And

You know, all of this is kind of tied in with these subterranean worlds. But the Shaver mystery ties into this...

I'm not going to say ancient, but it is this fear of humanity has got entities doing things. And I've cited reference before to the beams, the rays, right? And weren't the Dero firing rays into people's minds to get them to do bad things? Yeah, that's right. It's got this religious connotation of bad spirits getting into you to make you do bad things and make you commit sin. It's like this old kind of belief which has just been changed into a more modern context. Yeah.

Well, we'll get into it in a moment, but that's kind of what the Cassiopeian channeled information is saying as well. Yeah. That's what it tells them.

That there's these beams that are beaming into the people in the government. Right. And causing them to make certain decisions. But yeah, these 1950s contactees, there was Stefano Breccia who wrote Mass Contacts. He said they lived most of the time in their huge underground bases. Some of them lived among us. June Crane worked at Wright-Patterson in the 1940s.

She said that scientists and engineers there fully believed that humanity had been contacted. She said there was even some of them who said, we have them among us and they have our shape and form and just look like normal, ordinary people. And Nick Redfern had a source named John who told him that the vast amounts of documentation to which he had access, running from 1943 to 1968,

were focused on the history of the US government's knowledge of and interaction with alien entities who weren't visiting us, but clandestinely living on Earth among us. And yeah, there's examples from Pat Price and Hal Puthoff

talking about these remote viewings as well. And these were the, was it the Project 1833 or something with a remote viewing Mount Hayes and these underground bases. So Pat Price came up with the same idea when in his remote viewings, there was these groups with these underground bases. And I remember in one of the stories, he supposedly remote viewed this incident where they, I think it was in Australia. It was like, was it Mount Hayes in Australia or was that Alaska? But there was one in Australia. Yeah.

And about two dozen of these entities escaped the base. And so there was all these, this is what he remote viewed, there were all these security teams looking for them. And I remember when I did that episode, I was asking, how did they escape? Wouldn't it be, where would you go? Aren't you an alien? But then if you put that in the context of, no, they look exactly like us. They just blend in. A bunch of them are living in Melbourne. They've all moved to Melbourne. That explains a lot. In the 1970s.

And then you get to the contemporary reports. So Jason Giorgiani, PhD holder, wrote Close Encounters in 2021. He said they have a planetary scale civilization on Earth and their endurance of the collapse in the past makes them survivors of Atlantis. He says they have survived in vast underground bases, undersea cities consistent with crypto terrestrial hypothesis. That's from 2021. Tom DeLonge.

2023 says, I wonder if advanced civilizations came here long ago, then they went underground and would pop up to push humanity periodically. So it doesn't have any stories. It's just referencing. Ross Coulthard has said that we've speculated quite openly about the possibility that whatever this non-human intelligence is, one

One of the most vast and unexplored areas of our planet is underwater, and a lot of the phenomena is coming from the oceans, so they're down there as well. These aren't new reports. These are just new people that have come into the field speculating on what people have been saying since Keeley and Price. Yeah, noticing the same thing. Yeah, you're right. They're not new reports. Bernardo Kastrup just last year said-

Any culture once exposed to the magnitude of planetary catastrophe will be wary of the planet's surface. I actually think this is the best quote. So anyone that's gone through some kind of periodical destruction will be like, yeah, we don't want to do that again. Why should we stay on the surface? And since such a post-apocalyptic culture, he says, would have been reduced to relatively few members, their requirements for a living space would also be relatively modest.

Depending on the surviving level of their technology, they could have made a home for themselves underwater or underground. So I like Castrop's idea because that does explain a lot of what we've been hearing. There's such an old race that I've seen enough times that it's like,

were safer underground or underwater. Yeah, they're a pre-Diluvian race. So they went through the Great Flood. They went underground and survived, but there's such a small amount of them, they can't expose themselves and they can't make any great impact on the surface. But they retained a high technology and

And they remain hidden using this technology. To fire beams into people's or politicians' heads? Well, I don't know. I don't know about that. But I think out of all these scenarios, you could at least say, yeah, maybe. Well, that's a justification for why they would do what they're doing. Eventually, you'd come out, though. You'd think so. You'd come to the surface. Even in the craziest sci-fi, living in a vault...

You're still coming out. You still want to pop your head out. That, or as I pointed out, if they're such an advanced civilization culturally, maybe their ethics are at such a point that they've seen just how awful it is. And it's like, well, until the society can get through cataclysms and improve their ethics and have values, live and let live, which certainly humanity does not have at the moment, we're not dealing with them. They're violent apes. We're not dealing with them.

Well, maybe they do come out and we just don't know. We just don't notice. Yeah, that's a possibility. I mean, that's what the occultists have been saying for hundreds of years. They're just, you know, they're just wandering around. You would never know. How would you know? They look just like us. They are human beings, but they're not from the... Well, that would make sense as well. That would kind of make sense. So what are the Cassiopeian material? What does the Cassiopeian material say? What do the Cassiopeians say about this? This channeled material from this project? Well, let's bring up a screenshot of...

Does Agartha exist? No. Does someone or something, people or civilizations or a group live inside Mount Shasta, California? Answer, no. Wait, there's no elaboration. This is channeling. Where's the pages and pages of waffling and nonsense? Most of it is this. And this is the big problem with the whole Cassiopeian experiment. Most of it is the author going...

All right, so I've read about this guy who contacted aliens and he said this and then they said they lived underground and this was in the 1950s. So what do you think about that? Is any of that true? And the Ouija board will just go, nope. No.

No, you don't even have to go to the letters. It's just like yes or no at the top. Or sometimes it'll say maybe or you're getting closer. Is it a magic eight ball? Well, then the person will respond with, okay, I'm getting closer. Is it this? And they'll type out some crazy paragraph. Yeah, ridiculous question. Like the biggest leading question you could ever imagine. And again, the board's like, getting warmer. And so most of their information isn't from...

paragraphs and paragraphs from this spirit board, it's them conjuring it and this board just going, yes. It's like a pendulum. It's basically like a pendulum. So do they get yes from any of this? Okay, so they do have a summary of information that they've got on this topic of the underground people from the Cassiopeians. It's more people, isn't it? Let me lay it out for you.

There are artificial facilities, both bases and cities, underground and under the oceans. The deepest is 5,000 kilometers below the surface. How deep does the Mariana Trench go? How deep is the crust? Yeah, what's the deepest point? I don't know what that is. I don't know. Can you look? Isn't that where like the magma worms live? Isn't that just molten down there?

So this is the boundary between the outer and inner cores of the Earth. The temperature down there is apparently 20 degrees Celsius. So like a nice 68 degrees Fahrenheit. They make light out of magnetic resonance down there.

However, these bases and access to them are not strictly physical. Oh, here you go. The maximum known depth of the Mariana Trench is 10,000, 1100 meters. Sorry, 10,900 meters. So, yeah. I'm talking about 1100 meters in total. I'm talking 5,000 kilometers. 5,000 kilometers. So that's not possible. Yes, it is possible because they have the resonance technology. The what?

Pat Price and Joseph McMoneagle remote viewed some of these bases, but their viewings were distorted because they're trans-density in nature. So they're 3D and 4D. This underground civilization developed on its own, originating when humans went underground due to bombardments 14,000 years ago. So asteroids, which was what we were just describing.

A major source of the inhabitants of these underground locations in recent centuries has been military personnel killed in action or missing in action. So this is where I would skip straight to the summary because I started reading this question and answer. And the spirit board is asking them like how many KIA were in the Vietnam War? And so the person asking the question is like, I don't know, like 60,000 something KIA.

And then the board's like, warmer? What does it mean? And through this back and forth, they ultimately figure out that when some people die in the Vietnam War, for example, there's this kind of technology or force that steals their body.

And then takes it to one of the underground cities. So it's the invasion of the underground body snatchers. Yeah, takes it to the underground city. And then they either duplicate the body and put the person's soul in a duplicate body, or they duplicate the body and put some other entity's soul in there. And then they become worker personnel for the underground civilizations.

Which would suck. Like imagine you die in a war and then you wake up and you're working with the mole people in their like mines under the earth. That's your job now. So there have been several episodes of mass migration with this functionality, with this technology, especially during World War II when many Germans went underground using an entry portal located in Antarctica, right?

They entered through their constructed base there and they assimilated with the underground people. So now there's underground Nazis. Yeah, well, they're not Nazis anymore. They got assimilated to the underground people culture. Apparently thousands of years ago, the Celts and the Templars did this as well.

But this has been going on since 1947 in a much less intensive form, they say. But enough wars have taken place that they can essentially respawn their worker crews under the earth. It's just, it's absolute nonsense. It's, this is what channeled information is. It's just like, it's a blah, blah, blah. I think the guy that wrote the pamphlet for 33 cents in 1950 and said he went on a trip to Antarctica on a spaceship is more believable than the Cassiopeia experiment. Yeah.

Underground activities and groups include the Deros, and they claim that when Shaver was talking about the Deros, he was talking about greys because they're like robotic psychopaths. Yeah, but they weren't like the style of the greys, though, from what I recall. Apparently they were. That's what the Cassiopeians said.

Shaver was onto something. They also mentioned Thor's Pantheon. I was like, what is this? Thor's Pantheon is an army of 1.6 million Aryan psychic projectors operating mostly underground who beam themselves through thought-form transmission to writers and artists on the surface. Ha ha ha ha ha ha!

I reckon that's what's happening to me. I reckon like Aryan psychic projectors are beaming racist thoughts into our mind 24 hours a day. Okay, that's an excuse. Where do you get arrested? No, I think this is what's happening. I need a cure.

This is an intense activity directed towards influencing high-level creative forces. That's me. I'm one of their major targets. You're just a jerk. For the purpose of transferring enlightenment frequency graduation as part of Project Awaken, this is what the Thor's Pantheon Aryan psychic projectors are doing. There's a base program?

That they're basically turning people based by firing psychic waves at their heads? The difference between me and you is I recognize that the Aryan psychic racist forces are beaming into my mind. You're completely oblivious to it. You're just affected by it. At least I'm aware of what's happening. I'm not at all. This civilization refers to itself as the nation of the third eye. The cleft in the foreheads of ancient Olmec statues is a designation for this group. I just love it.

I love how this is what the spirit board told you. I love how these guys...

They do so much research. It must take hours to pour through all these sources and compile them together. But it just sounds like it's wasting their time. And then the spirit board is like, oh yeah, the Olmec statues, they're part of the underground Illuminati Aryan psychic network. How much of this though as well, I was thinking about this when it comes to that great experience we had when we were table tipping. We did it so many years ago with Moon Mason and it was a really fun event. But it was like nothing happened

until, because we're there with a group of people that, and no one knew each other, but when people started joking and laughing, it was like the energy, the human energy caused that table to start jumping around and spinning and moving. How is it any different to using this board, right? And you've got a bunch of people who've got all these thoughts in their mind because they've done all this research and that energy is going into that board. And it's not an entity giving them information. It's just like all the story that they've manifested in their mind is

is now being regurgitated through that board. Yeah, I think there's something to that. And I think if you read through the transcripts yourself, it's quite clear that the people asking the questions are conjuring most of the information. And whatever's coming back from the board is really not that much at all. Well, they may not even be aware of it.

Yeah. And I mean, then you get to like, they give you figures on how many underground people are. There's like, you know, 4 million of them waiting to come out and they're, they are essentially, um, influencing like in the latter chapter, the Cassiopeian experiment says that

They've now infiltrated all major areas of politics that they're making decisions in power structures among the earth because they've been infiltrated by these beings or they're being remotely influenced by these beings. And again, it's the same idea that appeared in these 1950s contactees. It's the same idea. It's the same idea from the occultists in the 1800s.

That there's this group of hidden masters that is pulling the strings and orchestrating things on the surface of the world. It's the same idea from these alchemist societies in the 17th century, these hidden forces pulling the strings of humanity. Is there any truth to it or is it just this archetype, this attractive archetype that we keep falling for? I think that's more likely. That seems to be far more likely. You don't think the wart people exist under the earth? No.

You don't think this guy's probably, as soon as you said that, this guy, just like a little tear started to drip down his wart face. You've denied, how can you deny this man's existence? Does he need like a day of visibility? Is that what he needs? Yeah, he does need a day of visibility. I'm just going to walk past him in the street. Wart people are people too, Aaron. Can I leave you with one story from Nick Redfern, which might add a little bit of

credence to some of this. Sure. So he wrote that book NASA Conspiracies back in 2011. It was a good book. And he had this source who was a contactee

His name was Private McGavin. He claims that on October the 29th, 1973, he had worked at NASA's Gemini program as a contractor. He had an experience near Aztec, New Mexico. He claims it's one of these stories where he just woke up. It's like, oh, I've got to drive somewhere. Gets in the car, drives out to the desert. Went there on compulsion.

He waits on the mesa for hours that night. And eventually this black triangle UFO lands right in front of him. He's like, what the hell's going on? Out of which emerges a tall, blonde, long-haired man in a gray one-piece suit. This man said his name was Gavon Gavon.

told Mick Gavin that his race had been discreetly contacting people across the planet since 1947. I love how the eyewitness's name is Mick Gavin. It's like, what's its name? Oh, I'm Gavon. Or the alien got out of the ship and said, hello, what's your name? Mick Gavin, what's your name? Gavin. Yeah.

Uh, they were few in number, these people, but use technological trickery to give humanity the appearance that there were many of them and that they were all powerful. World War II and the development of nuclear weapons had inspired them, inspired them to take on a more hands-on approach. On the drive back to Colorado after this encounter, McGavin himself could not shake the disturbing feeling that he had just been brilliantly used and exploited by

by a being that was wholly deceptive in nature and did not have our best interests at heart. There was something about Gavon, McGavin recalled, that was not only too good to be true, but was also very unsettling. Although he admitted he could not quite place what it was that he found so disturbing. So this guy, he gets back to the Gemini program, you know, the next day he's on the site and he shares with some of the people there his experience, his friends with some of them,

Apparently, word got around and he received a call from someone claiming to work with NASA on security-related issues. And Redfern in his book described the exchange that this guy McGavin had with this contact. He said despite what McGavin had been assured by his cosmic visitor, this Kalanan, his name was, advised him that this Gavon alien and his small band of comrades were not aliens from some distant galaxy at all.

Rather, they represented the last vestiges of a very ancient and very terrestrial race that tens of thousands of years ago had an advanced but isolated civilization that was responsible for the legends of Atlantis and similar stories, but who were forced to retreat into huge carved underground caverns when they were faced with an overwhelming, ever-growing violent problem that was quickly infesting the whole planet. The problem was us, the human race, said Kalanert.

Our presumed extraterrestrials were nothing of the sort. Rather, they had been here all along trying to find a way to take back the world that had once been theirs and extinguish their most hated foe, us, once and for all in the process. Genetic problems and general genetic problems and general ill health

like Wartman, had forced this human-like race to try and interbreed with us to ensure they remained free of detection. The beings constructed false stories that they were from distant star systems. Wouldn't a lack of vitamin D undermine them anyway? No, they've got underground resonant technology that creates light. Right. But anyway, the legend continues. The legend continues.

Do the underground races exist? Why does this meme keep persisting within each generation of underground stories? Whether it's occultists, UFO contactees, UAP people today, these weird underground conspiracies. Is it all just a myth? Is the spirit board telling the truth? Do the wart people exist?

No. You're just like the spirit board. I'm just like the spirit board. No. No. Look, when you've got a spirit board, which just spews forth usually such flowery nonsense that just goes on and on and on. Even the spirit board is like, oh, no. It is a bit like that. It's like the equivalent of that Ben Affleck meme with him holding a cigarette and just like, no. Yeah. That's how we feel some days. Yeah.

Part three is mutilations, missing persons, and alien nutrition. Take a guess what the alien nutrition is. Well, because of the image, I'm going to go with cows, but could it be us as well? Yes, it's cows. But the only reason, so that's what cattle mutilations are. It's just for nutrition. They drink the plasma, according to the Cassiopeian experiment. But the only reason they eat the cows is because otherwise they'd be eating humans and that would be too suspect. Right.

Well, they have mutilated humans, though, according to some reports. Yeah, but it would be on a whole other scale if they didn't have cows. So cows to them is like human substitute. So what are they? Why are they always eating cow udder and cow ass? Why is it that the mutilation is always pouring out the ass and the balls? That's exactly what they asked the spirit board. So the spirit board's like, it's because the greys like the plasma, but they give the other stuff to the lizards.

So the reptilians get like the cored out anus and the eyeballs and everything. So these guys are reptilians? No, they're like greys. No, but who are the wart people? I don't know. Do you see what I mean? Some other group. Yeah, it's completely disconnected from the previous chapter. So I'll link to it in the show notes. Great stuff.

That's your picture. There it is. Beyond Disclosure, Underground Bases, Higher Dimensions, Alien Abduction and Cryptozoology. Harrison Coeli from the Cassiopeian Experiment. Everything will be in the show notes at mysteriousuniverse.org. Definitely worth checking out. Look, if you wanted some resources on some of these wild stories, it's great. You don't have to believe or read the channeled spirit board stuff.

But they're really good at compiling all these different reports and forming a thread. I think the spirit board is the weakest part of the whole thing, if I'm honest. But I'll link to that in the show notes. And yeah, looking forward to what's coming up in Plus. I'm looking at some of the images.

you've got just rearranging your bedroom is coming up in Plus. It's just going to be a Plus episode about Ikea and how you can arrange your bedroom to be more poltergeist-like. So the poltergeist formerly known as Prince isn't very good at internal decorating. Oh, no idea. Yeah, no idea. Just throws the stuff around. Yeah, just puts the bed wherever he wants up against the wall. Nice fit. Oh,

And then also eviscerates your dog. So there's positives and negatives. You know, you just got to work it out when living with a poltergeist. So poltergeist stuff coming up in Plus. If you want access, head to mysteriousuniverse.org forward slash plus. Sign up today. Get access to all the extra content we do, which is a massive extension we put out every single Friday. You're getting more than double the content if you sign up for Plus. Plus members also get an entirely exclusive show that comes out on Tuesdays as well. You've got this entire series

extra section here on the plus podcasts so mysterious universe.org forward slash plus sign up today

You also get a totally ad-free version of the show, a high-quality MP3 audio version of the show. And if you sign up for the MU Max tier, you get access to our massive, massive back catalog going back 16, 17 years worth of shows. All the videos and audio is on the website as well. Again, mysteriousuniverse.org forward slash plus. Sign up today. Help support your favorite show. That's a wrap for this free edition of MU. Thanks for listening. Thanks for watching. If you're on Plus, stick around for the great stuff after the break. Bye.

For everyone else, we'll catch you next week.