HVAC Companies Are Replacing Techs with Sales Reps and Overcharging Customers – Tim De Stasio Part 1
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All right guys so part one of this is just having a little bit of fun with Tim DeStasio. He's been on the podcast several times and you may have seen that he takes other people's videos they might be doing some things incorrectly and then he jumps in with his own commentary about the video and they're fun I mean they're light-hearted and a lot of these people have gone and corrected themselves after Tim has made these videos so the first part of this conversation

is with Tim and why he decided to make these videos.

And I think they might be helping some people. So this is Tim DiStasio, guys, on the HVAC Know It All podcast. I'm your host, Gary McCready. As an HVAC contractor, we need to be insured. And it makes a lot of sense to have the same insurance company look after all our needs. Lambert Insurance Services has been protecting HVAC contractors since 2009. From general liability to workers' comp, bonding, commercial auto, and more, they've got you covered. Call Lambert Insurance Services for a free quote at 8

So

You started a bit of a trend finding other people's videos, right? And then coming on and commentating. And so let's explain to the audience what you're doing for those that don't know. You're finding videos where people might be making mistakes or saying the wrong thing or maybe misinformed or miseducated. And you're kind of having a little bit of fun with it, throwing some stick to them a little bit, right? And it's all in good nature. I totally get it.

What made you, let's talk about what made you kind of go that route and start poking fun at some of these guys? First of all, I didn't set out to become internet famous doing that. But what's crazy is that like all my social media stats immediately started doubling and quadrupling after I started doing it. Essentially, I...

I'll tell you who I don't want to pick on. I don't want to pick on somebody who is out there just trying to share what they've learned in good faith. Um,

especially somebody from the industry that has legitimately done their research and they just want to share content. Because honestly, that's how I got started way back, kind of around the time when I started getting to know you and people like Brian Orr. I just wanted to share what I have learned in my experiences. And actually, Brian Orr gave me just one piece of advice. He's like, just start putting stuff out there. Just, you know, make a podcast, make a video. Does that be great quality? You know, but just make sure it's accurate, as accurate as you can be.

I think where the people that I tend to gravitate towards picking on is people that I don't think are, they may come across like they're doing things in good faith, but honestly their content is there is not really to educate. It's either to brag or it's there to teach technicians how to be what's exactly wrong with this industry. Like what I think we're going to get into later in this conversation. Yeah.

If it's just a person that doesn't say something quite exactly right, I don't want to be like that. Well, actually, guy, that's not who I want to be. And people send me videos all the time. They're like, roast this guy. And yeah, what he said was technically incorrect, but that's just not where I want to go. It's usually things that is just low hanging fruit. Somebody that is known in the industry to be a sleazeball.

or a company that just is known to have that business model of being sales techs, or maybe just some influencer that's not even in our industry that is just trying to speak as if they have knowledge about things like humidity or building science. And it's just so low-hanging fruit that even a guy like me, that's not even a comedian, can just poke a little fun at, do a little creative editing on,

and make some entertainment. And honestly, I've been putting out videos probably since 2017, 2018. And, you know, with very little, if I get a few likes or a comment before I started doing these videos, that was a lot. And since I've been doing them, things have blown up. And that is not how I wanted to become internet famous, but...

That apparently is what the people want. Well, that's social media. I mean, there has to be a form of entertainment on social media. Yeah, you're right. But there also has to be some value as well, right? Because if there's no value, what I or what the industry starts to call these things is brain rot content because it has no value to the audience whatsoever. It just...

you're like a zombie stuck to your phone, just scrolling through like, Oh, three seconds. Oh, three seconds, three seconds. But as soon as you get locked into something and it's entertaining and there's value there, plus it's, it's a, uh, it's a niche that, that is up your, up your wheelhouse. Then I think that you can pull something from it. Now,

That being said, if somebody's saying, so the one guy he calls, I made a post on it too. And I just kind of, I was sitting right here and I just, I looked behind me. I'm like, what? Cause he was calling a drip leg on a gas line, a P trap. Right. And like, that's the kind of stuff that it's out there and people are like,

okay, wait a minute. People that don't know any better apprentices that are learning and stuff like that, they're going to be like, okay, so that's, that's a P trap because this guy on the internet told me it was a P trap. So there, there's a certain level of exposure that needs to happen in order to correct these people. And I get it. I mean, there's an entertainment aspect. So, I mean, when it comes to stuff like that, do you feel remorse afterwards that

oh, maybe now this guy's going to feel bad. He's going to have to delete his account. He's not going to want to do the trade anymore. Is there any remorse at all after doing it? Or it's just like, no, this person needs to hear this and this is how I'm going to let them hear it. Well, yes, there have been videos I've actually taken down.

because there's been somebody that says, hey, man, you know, I'm getting roasted out here, and all I was trying to do was share something. And I was like, you know what? I kind of feel like a jerk, and I don't want to be an internet bully. And so I've taken it down. Or somebody's reached out and just asked me to take it down.

And unless they are just like a huge, well-known jerk that I'm just going to have fun with telling them to go kick rocks, I'll do it. I mean, what unfortunately happens is you got these guys and girls out here that are just trying to do their job and the company has hired some marketing person or some influencer and they show up to a job in flip-flops.

and they want to interview them, and they're putting these guys on the spot to explain how something works. And these are technicians. They're just trying to get through the day, and maybe they don't say something accurately, and then it gets blasted because the marketing person isn't going to edit it. They're not going to correct it or fact check it, and it gets put out there. And I try to recognize that for what it is,

And sometimes you can tell by the tone. So when somebody is explaining something, you can just tell they're not comfortable and they just say something in error. I'm not doing anything with that video, even if I could, I have something in mind, I could. But if it's somebody and they have an air of,

a smugness and that kind of air to them as they're explaining how this works. And maybe they're a sales tech and maybe they sell these devices that, that, or whatever practice that they're doing. And they're saying it with this air of confidence. That's when I feel like we can go after them. But even then, if anybody ever comes after,

or comes to me and asks me to take a video down or saying, Hey, you know, you really made my life terrible. I feel bad about it. And I will absolutely take that video down. Um,

without even thinking twice about it because that's not what this is. This is a little bit of fun and I always try to make it educational at the very end. So after we have our laughs, usually the last 20 seconds or so is me rattling off what should have been said, what actually is the case or something because even though we entertain, I am above anything else an educator and I try to put that in every single one of these videos if you notice. Yeah, no, that's what I'm saying. As long as...

the education.

comes in, there's value for the audience. It's not just, ha ha ha, we're laughing at this guy and then we move on to the next one. And then we're laughing at the next guy. As long as there's a correction factor made and there's some education and there's value there. Yeah. I mean, I sent a, I sent the guy a gift card one time to true tech tools because he was not using the right torch tip and he reached out to me. He's like, Hey man, that was a funny video. Just so you know, I'm just getting started on my own and this is the torch tip that I got.

And, you know, I'm like, well, you know what, I'm going to, I'm going to help you out, you know? And it just, I sent them, I told them what torch tip to get. And hopefully we did a little good that day in addition to having some laughs. So, well, there was one, it was like one of the first ones you did. And it was, it was actually a company local, not like super local to me, but within a, an hour and a half drive, maybe two hour drive. And it was the marketing girl that was making the video. Right.

And it was in the warehouse. Yep. And she was telling us how an air conditioner worked and it was totally wrong. Right. And after I seen the video, I looked up, I think I asked you who they were. You told me privately and I reached out to them.

and I said, Hey, uh, do you guys need some help with your videos? Cause if you need some help on how actual an air conditioner works, just let me know. And she's like, I think it was the girl. Cause I, I'm going to make the presumption it was because she was in marketing and she's running social media and she's like, she kind of laughed it off and said, yeah, we're actually in, in works of editing that video.

to make it right. And then they did make an edit. They did. And in the video, she actually...

She was actually quite funny. She opened the door and she's like, there's the marketing department over there. They're all getting fired. They're all getting fired. They're all getting fired. Right. So I thought that was brilliant. It was a great sort of rebuttal and, and let's, let's get back up on the pedestal and do it right. So your video actually helped them and they corrected it and they probably learned something from that. So I thought that was really cool. Yeah. Yeah. I remember that. And I feel the same way.

So anyway, the conversation really wasn't to talk about these videos. It was more to talk about the sales tech because you're angered by them. So am I. A lot of the industry is. And I wanted to just have a conversation around it because...

It seems to happen. It seems like we're relying less and less on technical training and we're relying more and more on sales training, but it seems to be more like the residential side of things, not really the commercial side of things. You can't really get away with it on the commercial side of things. Yeah. I mean,

You can't walk up onto a building and your 40 ton rooftop is down. I can't figure it out. I'm going to sell you a new one. You can't do that. It's like, no, you're going to fix that thing. Like we need it up and running today. Yeah. Yeah. So you can't get away with that in commercial. So it happens in residential and it seems very predatory at times. So what are your thoughts there?

Well, I came from commercial industrial as did you. And you're absolutely right. A commercial service technician, if they went and worked for a residential company, they would laugh. They wouldn't last because they're used to going up there and fixing what's wrong and also being able to recognize when the unit is at its true end of life.

And when it's so rusted that you can't even get the doors back on or, you know, this thing is 30 years old and it's just eating compressors because the coils are all eaten up and they don't make parts for it. Like we recognize when a system is at end of life, but here in residential, which is the space that I'm in now, it is,

It's laughable. And I think a lot of it has to do with who is your customer. In commercial and industrial, we're dealing with building owners. We're dealing with engineers, plant managers, facilities people, people that know their stuff. And in residential, you're dealing with the average consumer. And I think the average consumer, at least here in the United States, is uneducated and what I like to call financially illiterate.

And they do take advantage of that. And it's, it is predatory. And this is not the only industry that does it. I mean, it's the car mechanic. Of course it is the, the mortgage lender in the years leading up to the financial crisis. They weren't, they weren't ripping off businesses that were getting business loans. It was the average, you know, consumer, uh,

That was just going there trying to buy something or get some advice or buy a house, buy a car, buy an air conditioning system. And because of the lack of education that they were being taken advantage of. And that's why I have zero sympathy for roasting people in that space. Because they're everything that's wrong with this industry. And, you know, somebody's got to push back a little bit. Okay, so I'm going to read you something. And I don't want to pick on this guy because...

He joined the HVAC Know It All app and he was actually asking questions to try to learn some stuff. Okay. I'm going to read you what he said. It's, it's not private. It's in a public place. It's free. You don't need to pay to get access to it. And I tried to give him some advice and a couple other people did too. Um, so he says, I just got hired as a comfort advisor. And as soon as, as soon as I saw the word comfort advisor, I'm like, Oh, what's coming next? Yeah.

He goes, and I've never been in the industry before. I'm like, oh man, now it's getting worse. Yeah. And I don't want to pick on this guy. I want to help this guy because he obviously wants to get a job. He wants to work. I mean, there's people out there that will sit on their butt and collect checks from the government and they're lazy bums. This guy wants to work. He wants to learn. I do have a sales background.

But it was a different industry. He's like, my question is, are there any resources besides here that you would recommend in order to get up to speed in the HVAC world? And I asked him if it was a high pressure sales position. I said, because unfortunately you might have a boss that's going to put you out there and try to force you to sell things a customer doesn't need. And all he did, all he said was he starts training in a few days and it's four to six weeks before he really goes out into the field. So yeah.

A couple things there. It's not really his fault that he's being hired as a comfort advisor. Right. And has no experience in the trade. I mean, he applied for a sales job because he's in sales and he's trying to make money to probably feed his family and stuff like that. So how do we help people like that and put them on the right track?

Right. That haven't been in the trade. They want to obviously they have to sell products. That's that's part of their job. But how do we help them do it the right way? And that's where I think our industry is. There is no easy answer to that. And I say that because if you look at other industries that have salespeople, is the guy that works on your car also your salesman? No, it's two different roles.

You show up to a car shop and you want to get your car diagnosed. You have an assumption that the person that's looking at it is a technician and a diagnostician. If you go to the car lot with the intent of buying a new car or a used car, you're going in there knowing you're going to speak to somebody in sales. And maybe they don't know how to rebuild the engine or the suspension or do brakes, and you're okay with that.

The problem is that in a lot of these roles, the comfort advisor is also the technician. He's going there under the guise of a technician. He comes in in a technician's van. It's got ladders on it. He's got a uniform. Maybe the uniform is stark white. Maybe it's not, but he's showing up there and he is in response to a no cooling or a no heating.

And him and his boss both know that the main objective is to sell them either a new system or steer them in the way of upselling them to something else.

And so how do you help somebody who's showing up in that situation? I think what you do is if they are the technician as well as the comfort advisor. I don't think that they're the technician, Tim. I think the way I pictured this in my mind, the technician comes in the furnace. Yeah. Yeah. He's, I think you need a new furnace.

I'll call in my comfort advisor. He's like parked down the block and he rolls in on his truck and has his clipboard. That's the way I pictured this. Yeah. And so, and most companies are structured that way, but I, I know, and I,

I won't go into further detail how I know, but I know that some- Name names. Tell us all the names. Not stricken that way. Yeah. No. Yeah. So some companies are structured where the comfort advisor is also that technician. They're all rolled into one. So let's take your scenario where- That would be the sales tech, right? Yeah. The sales tech. Right. Right.

So the comfort advisor, we need to actually understand comfort. And so maybe they don't need to know how to diagnose a capacitor or a fail compressor, but they need to die. They need to be able to do at the very basic level and actual manual J and they need to know how to match a unit to that. And they need to understand humidity control.

And when somebody has, what are the calls that people are having, which are the reasons why comfort advisor shows up? It's a unit that is at end of life. So we need to recognize code issues that need to be resolved. Original installation issues that need to be resolved. How do you know how to do any of that stuff? If you only, if you came from another industry, it takes a few years to actually have that

that training and that experience. How do you know how to correctly size duct systems for the new system that you're putting in? Somebody wants to go from a gas to a heat pump. That takes expertise on how to properly size the heat pump in a cold climate versus a warm climate. I don't think you can teach that within four to six weeks of training. And so just being real with that person saying, hey, you are going to be thrust into a situation where you know that

1% of what you actually should know to be moderately competent. And so you have a choice, either you're going to stick with it and really learn this stuff as quickly as possible or get out and work as a technician for a few years and come back to sales. Um, I, I do agree that they should know how to do basic troubleshooting, all that kind of stuff, because it gives them a better idea of how to sell and what to sell.

As far as the manual J thing in Canada, it's, it's, we don't do manual J. Yeah. Right. But I don't know how to do those. I have a help button. I have a, I have a guy that I, I call up and I go, here's the drawing or here's the drawing I made. Here's the windows and here's the elevation and where it is. And he gives me a load calculation. So as long as you have access to that and you know that it's there to use and you use it, then I think that's, I think that's fair as well. Right.

Yeah. But I think also that you in your current role, you have other skill sets that that you've learned in that time.

that you've taken, whereas a comfort advisor, we're not teaching them how to braze. We're not teaching them how to propress that installed ductwork. So they should be able to do that in-house because if not, who's the other person? Is it just one guy in the office? To me, just the owner in me, the business owner says, well, that's not very efficient. Most likely what's happening in these scenarios is that somebody is either quoting like for like or they're quoting based on square footage or some other rule of thumb instead of doing an actual heat load calculation and doing

that customer a justice and actually doing what's legally required of them. But also, and I get it that a service technician is not always going to graduate to sales. We're talking about two different personality types, two different skill sets. And so I get it that most salespeople are not going to come from the field. But when you think about who it, let's, let's use the commercial model. Who are the people that sell

heavy commercial industrial solutions to companies. They're engineers. I mean, Tony Mormino is, is an engineer. He's in sales and marketing, but that is his background is engineering. They have to know their stuff. They have to in some way be, be properly trained. And, and,

we're not required to be engineers in a residential, but we, there are a lot of factors that we need to consider and you don't teach that in four to six weeks of training. In fact, I guarantee you that very little that is taught during that four to six weeks is probably a lot of how to overcome objections and how to, to sell the different personalities. There's that communication training. And so we are throwing people out here and making decisions that are going to impact the safety, health, comfort, and efficiency of the home for the next life cycle of that equipment and

with very, very little training. And yes, we have the housing stock and the situations that we see on the internet all the time that I post about our problems. This is the result when you take that model. So it's not an easy issue to fix. I understand that getting a salesperson out there that is personable, that has, you know, has good soft skills, it takes time to get them

to where they can have that skill set also of HVAC design and actually understanding comfort. But you know what? It takes the same amount of time to turn a green person into a good service technician and those skills as well. It's like, it's just a different set of skills, but it still takes time and we can't devalue it by saying, yeah, just after a few weeks, you're going to be ready to do this.