The No-Brazing HVAC Method for Technicians to Prevent Fire Hazards Using SmartLock with Mason Parker
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What's up guys, welcome back. So the brazen connection we've talked about press in the past. I mean, there's flares flares seem to be coming back with the eco or video we put out from HR, you actually have the option to flare to that machine as well. But here's a different one. I've made a couple of videos on it so far it is the smart lock fitting. Smart lock can be used for connecting to a unitary product like that has a swage or a bell on the end of it.

It can be used for ductless for flaring. It also has couplings and 90s as well. So we're going to talk to Mason Parker. He's from Wright Sales. He's a rep of the product out in Arizona, and he's got some samples to show us. If you're watching on YouTube, you can see the samples. If you're listening while driving in your truck, we're doing our best to explain what we're looking at on the screen. So let's get to this. This is the HVAC Know It All podcast. I'm your host, Gary McCready.

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From storytelling to technical discussion. Enjoy the show. All right, Mason. So every time there's something that is not brazing that comes to the forefront to connect piping in HVAC or refrigeration, there's a few different categories of people. There's like, hey, that looks kind of cool. I'd like to try that. There is...

okay, I need to see more information. I want to see how this plays out before I'll even touch it. And there's people that'll never adapt to new technology. They're stuck in their ways. They're old school and it's like a hell no, right? Right off the bat. So,

I mean, I'm the one right now in this part of my life and journey through this trade. Is anything new that's thrown at me? I will look at and give it some time and thought and not shy away from it. I'll tackle it head on and say, hey, like, what is this? How can I use it? Where can I use it? Where does it work? You know what I mean? Right. I'm curious about it.

I would say back in the day, I'd probably be in that middle category where I'd be like, okay, that looks cool, but I ain't touching it until someone else tests it and tell me that's good. Okay. Now I've changed because I've got all this opportunity to try new things. People like, they see what I do and they're like, Hey, can you check this out for me? And I'll spend a couple of weeks with it a month or whatever. And I'll be like, I think this, this is kind of cool anyway.

Smart Lock. This is what we're here to talk about because it's interesting. The first time I seen it was about three years ago here in Toronto at the CMPX show. So first, tell us about what is Smart Lock? Smart Lock is a brazen refrigerant connection. So I think, like you mentioned, there's a lot of skepticism, which I think is good, honestly. I think people should be, you know, you only know what you know. So when you're brazing and you're really good at that,

That's a really good skill to have. And it's important. And there's applications where all you can do is braze, right? But for a lot of other applications, we can limit lugging tools. We can limit bringing up our nitro tanks when you're purging, you're brazing. There's a lot of other ways to fix joints. So Smart Lock's another tool for that. So it's all metal to metal connection.

They've been around for 10 years now. I think with the A2L, everyone kind of got woken up to the different ways they can connect to refrigerant pipe, different applications, whether it's ductless or it's unitary or whether they just need a, you know, a nail went into something in a wall and it's too tight of an application where you don't really want to braze. There's trusses around it, whatever the case may be.

Smart Lock is just another solution for that. So they make a ton of different fittings, 90s unions, coupling, I mean, you name it. So they're just another tool to attach your refrigerant lines and they're pretty easy. So would it be considered a compression fitting? Correct. Yes.

Okay. Now, I know you got some samples there. And for those of you listening while you drive, I know you can't see them, but you can always watch later on YouTube. So can you hold one up for us if you don't mind, Mason? Yeah, I have a few different ones. Let's do this. This is my favorite. This is something no one else has. So this is a, and also every smart lock fitting on the box and on the product, there's going to be a QR code.

So if you don't know how to do the install, you're not confident, and you just pick one of these up at your local supply house,

you can take your phone, scan that code, it'll run you through the whole install. So this is one that goes straight to unitary. So on one end you have your, this is a 3/8 fitting, so on one end you have your 3/8 tube, on the other end you have your sledge. So you can put this right onto a unit, whereas a lot of other people doing these braze-less fittings, you have to braze a stub out and attach from there, right?

So you're still not really putting the torches away with us. We can put the torches away and do a full new system install. So, so we're, we're clear audience. We're going to come in with our line set into a typical outdoor unit for air conditioning for, let's say, for example, to keep it simple. And there's that swage, that bell on the end, this fitting that he's holding goes from the pipe to the bell, right? And there's zero brazing whatsoever that that needs to happen, right?

Correct. Okay. I have a little sample of kind of that Bell and Swedge.

Yeah. Kind of see how that goes on. Yeah. We can see how it goes on and I'll do my best to sort of explain what you're doing for the people that are driving in their vehicle. So what he's holding is basically a block. It's got some different variations of fittings on there and he's got, what is that? A three eights? This is a three eights. Yeah. Yeah. So there's a three eights pipe sticking out that has the bell on the end. So Mason's going to attach it to that. So ideally you're going to take your line set and I just have a little piece of copper here as my line set.

So what you're going to do, you're going to insert that into the swedge like you typically do for you braze. All right. You're going to take this. This would already be on the line set ideally, right? Be five or six inches back and push that over the swedge. And then once you're over the swedge and you know you're bottomed out, there's a marking guide and everything in the box for all these.

And it'll show you exactly where you want it to be. You measure your depth and you're going to tighten from there. So there's a center body nut and then there's a swedge and a tube body nut. Okay. So, so I'm just going to explain for the audience here. So he's holding it up. We've got the pipe coming out of the block with the, with the bell on it.

the smart lock fitting and then the piping. So there's three pieces to the smart lock fitting. There's the side on the bell, the middle nut, and then the pipe nut. So you can go from there, Mason. Yeah. So then you're just going to hold the middle here and you're going to tighten that swedge nut. Sledge nut. As tight as you can with your hands. And then you're going to hold that center nut again and tighten the tube nut with your hands. And then you're going to do that same process with the wrenches. And that's it. And then how do we know when to stop?

So it'll bottom out. So I have another kind of a sample here. So those gaps will be removed and it'll bottom out. So you can only tighten these so much. And when you're done, you're done. Usually these sides will all line up and you'll know. Yeah. So bottom, bottoming out means that the middle nut is touching the other ends of the other two nuts. So they're actually coming in almost basically in contact with each other. Yeah. Correct. Can you hold that one? Can you hold that one up and

up and turn it around. Yeah. This thing. Yeah. It's so I have this exact piece and it was funny because so what, what he's holding is, is a piece of pipe. It's got a blowout in the middle and there's a smart lock fitting on each side. And somebody says online says to me, they go, Oh, the fittings can't be that good. Cause look at the pipe. It blew up. I'm like, dude, that means the fitting is amazing. Cause the pipe blew up before the fitting blew off. Right.

Yeah. I believe from what I was told, this was pressure tested at like 1400 PSI. And then that's when the copper burst. So, I mean, the specs for these are, I've seen a lot of specs on compression fittings and press fittings and a lot of different fittings. And these specs are crazy. They're really high on design pressure and burst pressure. Like burst pressure for a quarter inch is almost 10,000 PSI.

So it's 9,700. So it's up there. What about maximum working pressure? Design pressure on the quarter is 1,700 PSI. 1,700. For the 7.8s, it's 1,160. Okay. You're looking at pressure you should never reach in most...

HVAC applications. Oh yeah. It'd be a catastrophe. If you reach those pressures and I mean, we can get to those pressures in CO2, but you're not going to be using these in CO2 applications. Yeah. Or have people use them in CO2 applications? Do you know? I don't know. No. Okay. All right. Okay. So that you showed us the one for the bell that comes out, but there's, there's different variations. So what are the other variations? I think one of the best designed fittings they have is going to be their ductless application fitting.

purely on the fact that as you're tightening it, you kind of get into those manufacturer specs on the torque on the flare end. So essentially with this guy, you just have one nut at this point. You have your end that's going to go to your threaded end on your ductless condenser or head, and then you have your end for the tube to go into, right? It's a little smaller. It's just two sections as opposed to the three we just looked at. But with this guy, you're just going to get it started

on that, uh, on that ductless condenser or head on the threaded end. You've got the, so you got it started, then you put the pipe in. Is that what you're saying? Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So then you're going to put your pipe in. So you're going to go until it stops. And then what you can do is just tighten this one. So you tighten this one and it's going to, this is going to seat as well as you're doing it on the threaded end.

So as you're tightening this, you really just need one wrench for this install. So you continue to tighten this till it bottoms out. And in that process, it's going to seat on the threaded end and meet torque specs too. So you don't necessarily need that torque wrench when you're doing the ductless install. Okay. So let me ask you this, the pipe, the pipe, when you slide it in, it's not pre-flared, but when you connect it and then you start tightening it, if you were to take it apart, would that

copper pipe now be flared onto the brass fitting? No, it's going to, there's a little stop in this. It's going to hit. So there's a, there's a pre flare inside of this piece. So there's a multi-angle flare. It's going to be kind of hard to see in that picture, but you see that little gold looking brass looking flare piece. Yep. That's your multi-angle flare. So you're going to put that in and it's going to, uh, seat on this, uh, threaded end.

So you don't need to worry about flaring anything. Yeah. But will the copper flare itself as you're taking it? No, no, it won't. It won't. So the copper will just stay straight. Yeah. Cause when I put one of those together in a video, I was thinking, I'm like, what is happening to the copper right now? And somebody did ask, he's like, if you pull that apart, is the copper now flared in there? And I'm like, that's a good question. And I haven't even taken the other one apart to even look at it to see if it did that. But you're saying it doesn't happen. No, even on the, so I have a little picture here.

from their catalog and kind of see that guy so there's one where it's just going to seat right on the end of it and the flare is going to be done internally so the flare is already made right so it's going to mate up on that kind of that golden brass piece in there and that's your multi-angle so that's going to sit perfectly on the on the end of that threaded piece

Okay. So then it's metal to metal. So what's providing the seal? Is it just because the smart lock fitting is compressing down onto the copper? Right. Yeah. Is that basically all that's happening? That's all. Yeah, basically. So there are gaskets and guys will look at this and say, Oh no, there's gaskets.

But realistically, what these rubber gaskets do. Yeah, I was going to ask you about that because, yeah, there's like little O-rings in between the nuts. Supplyhouse.com is your shortcut for part shopping. They have thousands of HVAC parts from all the leading brands, and the orders get shipped and delivered across the U.S. in a day or two tops. HVAC professionals can get free shipping, free returns, and discounts on every other order through their Trademaster program. Order parts and get them delivered right to your door

That's supplyhouse.com. Those have no structural integrity to them. They provide no sealing to them. So it's all metal to metal connection. If you take these gaskets out, you can still perform the seal just as good as you could without. The whole point of those is to keep dirt and debris out when you're installing them. Oh, really? Those guys are going to kind of keep all the dirt off that pipe. As you insert it, you can kind of feel it's a little tight.

So it's like a, not tight, but it's a, it's a, it's a good fit. So when you're pushing your pipe in, it's going to keep dirt and debris that might be on the pipe from getting onto that connection point. So you don't have any gaps in that. If that makes sense. Interesting. Okay. So,

there are a couple other fittings there is like a straight coupling so we've talked about connect connections to ductless connections to the the moderate i mean the average unitary style equipment but you do have couplings that go from basically if it's 5 8 coupling and then 5 8 pipe so you can create a connection between two two pieces of pipe yeah now what is the goal in in that is if just

Because the other two are connections to machines, right? And you also have the 90s that go from pipe size to pipe size, basically the same. Is the goal of that to actually pipe full-on systems with SmartLock? You can use it for whatever you want. So we have the 90 that is a coupling and we also have it in a swedge.

Yeah. So I'm sure everyone has done a closet install where it's just tight. You can't get a long radius bend into the unit. You got the door right there. Just makes it very tricky to do. So with this guy, you can just simply plug that onto your air handler and go straight up through the attic. Your connection point to your line sets on this end, the swedges on this end, and you just put it on, tighten it down.

And then you get your line setter and tighten that down. So that 90 can be installed onto a... This is a swedge 90. Yeah. But there are 90s just for straight pipe too. Correct. Yeah. Correct. Oh, I didn't know that. Yeah. So this guy, it'll slip right over that swedge, right? So then you just tighten that down. Same as, they're all really the same install process. You're going to hold this body and tighten this end. And you're going to hold this body and tighten your line set end.

Okay. Now the ones that I got, when you open the package, there's a sticker that's holding a couple of nuts together and it says, do not remove the sticker until you're basically at this part of the install. What's the point of that sticker? I think the sticker is just to make guys really aware of the install process more than anything. If it's your first time grabbing this,

And you don't know what to do. I mean, they put QR codes on everything to make it simple. And that sticker is just like a, okay, hold off real quick, figure out what you're doing. Because I mean, so before we started working for these guys, I got some samples and I tested them in my garage, right? I got my nitro tank, I braced up a little. So here's kind of what I made. I made a loop.

with one end with a Schrader, right? And I pressurized. This thing still has, I believe, like 500 PSI in it. So, and I would take it and I was throwing it around in my garage, not super violently. I was like, I want to really...

test these things and see how they perform. So this one, it still has a ton of nitro in it. So I kept this around. I drive around with it and show guys kind of how it's supposed to look when it's done and kind of what I did. So give guys a little more trust in it. Now, who do you see using this fitting the most? Is it ductless guys? Is it unitary installers? I think it's a little bit of everyone. I mean, there's always a good application for it.

So, I mean, whether you're doing ductless installs or you're doing unitary or you get a nail in some pipe, you know, guys come around, do siding after you put your line set and you pressurize it, you go back and it's flat.

It's really tricky to braze in those tight spots. But if you can get this fitting on, tighten it down, you don't have to worry about any of that. Now, I was speaking to Pat Cruz, who's with SmartLock, or I believe it was him. I believe it was him we had this conversation, or it was one or the other. Him or Craig, probably. Yeah. It was one of the two. And when I first put them out on...

onto the social media, there's a bunch of people going, oh yeah, they work, they work, they work. And there's a bunch of people going, yeah, they leak, they leak, they leak. Don't use those. I'm almost wondering if some of the people thought they were the push-on style fittings at first because they're not a push-on style fitting. They're actually a fitting that you have to compress together yourself manually. Now the push-on ones...

I've looked at them before. I've put them under pressure tests and stuff before. And I think there's a certain brand that went actually back to the drawing board to kind of get redeveloped or made better. What is your experience? If it's installed properly, what is the success rate of callbacks for leaks? Is it as far as you're concerned anyway? So I think anything installed properly, I mean, especially with these guys, they have a 25 year warranty on them.

So they stand behind them very heavily. And I was talking with Craig about this yesterday. Craig is their director of sales. So we were just going over kind of some points to talk about today. And he mentioned that exact question. Like they don't really have any failures on these when they're installed properly. And that's why they can give it a 25-year warranty. I've never dealt with really anything with a 25-year warranty before. So they stand behind it. If there are manufacturer defects, they'll take care of it.

So they're a very good company on that aspect. Have you been to a site where somebody installed it wrong and you pulled it off and go, you totally messed this install up? I haven't, but

I'm almost curious kind of how they do that because you would have to cut out that section, right, and send it in or get it checked out by me or whoever the local rep is to kind of see what exactly went wrong or what happened. But no, truthfully, I have not seen that. Interesting. Well, I mean, it's pretty self-explanatory. It's pretty easy to install it. Yeah, that's... You slide it on, you tighten it up. But the one I did with the flare block...

It did have like a little paper depth gauge on there. Yeah. Yeah. They all come with one in the box. Yeah. Yeah. So, so make sure obviously you follow the instructions from start to finish and don't assume and don't skip steps because then you might have a bad experience just like with anything else. I would say if it's anyone's first time trying these,

really like utilize the QR codes they put on these boxes. Everyone has a cell phone. Take it out. Watch the one minute YouTube video it'll take you to. And these QR codes are item specific. So if you have an elbow or you have a union or swedge, whatever, it's going to take you to that page on how to do that install.

And it's a super short video, but it leaves no confusion. It's very well done. Okay. Now, I know you're a rep and I know you don't work specifically for SmartLock, but do you know why they developed it or why they went into the R&D and developed this product? Like, what was the thought behind that? Do you know? Oh, man, that's a good question. Truthfully, I do not know. That's okay. No, that's okay. Because I always ask these questions to people, like, what made you think of this and why did you think it was something that

should be implemented into the field. I think that they were kind of ahead of their time. I think with A2L, everyone's looking for alternatives now to brazing. Everyone's a little spooked. Right or wrong, they are a little spooked. I mean, I was part of a contractor. I've seen houses get burned down. I've seen apartment complexes get caught on fire. I've seen a lot of different things.

From torch use. Exactly. Yeah. So anytime you can avoid a flame, if you know it's sketchy, why not try out a fitting? You know, let's say this doesn't work. It still saves you the cost of, you know, starting a fire on a home. That's the last thing you ever want to do as a contractor. You made a bunch of old school HVAC refrigeration guys really mad when you said, why use a torch? Yeah.

No, not why I use a torch, but it's certain applications, you know? Yeah. No, I'm just joking around with you. We've all brazed in situations where we maybe shouldn't have. And we've got a guy with a bucket of water next to us and a fire extinguisher. I was in, I might've said this in the podcast at one point, but I was doing a couple of years back an AC install for a homeowner and I had my torch out and we had to run the line set through his drywall ceiling. There was a pain in the butt. And we got to the end of the drywall ceiling and we were exposed in this

sort of like closet. It was like a broom closet almost in the guy's basement, but it was exposed in the ceiling. Then we could go into the mechanical room or furnace room from there, but we had to put a coupling on. So I went in and I was brazing, but there was all kinds of stuff around. And his, his wife had like the sleeve over the central vacos. And it was just like weird sort of, I don't know. It was, it almost looked like a doily or something that you put over like your, your,

It's so hard to describe. Anyway, it was a sleeve and it was flammable and the torch caught it and it just started to light up and I'm like hitting it with my rag and like blowing on it. But

If I wasn't paying attention, that could have been a disaster. And I understand why people want torches left behind. And I understand also too that insurance companies even giving lower rates on with specific companies if they're making the move to brazen connections. So that's also a thing as well.

I think that in the situations that I've seen where, look, I have an oxyacetylene torch in my garage. That's exclusively what I use as a tech. I worked for a union company and that's all we did was braze. We brazed everything. There was no other option. Old school guys and that's what they believed in. And we never had leaks because of that. We checked everything. But I mean, that was five years ago. So I think now with the A2L, it kind of changes the conversation a little bit. I think that you're never going to get rid of torches off your truck

But with these, if you're in a certain application, they make a ton of sense. And the dangers of brazing, from what I've seen, you don't necessarily know something's on fire. You know, it could sit hot for a minute or two and then spark up and start a fire. That's what I've, certain times that I've seen things go bad, it was guy did the braze, got out of the attic, went back up, and it was, then there's a fire started.

So just being aware of everything around you. If you have a bead of silphos that drops onto a piece of dry wood, it could actually take a little bit of time for that. Absolutely. To start to ignite into a flame at least. Cool, man. So is there any other valid points you feel you need to throw in about the product? Any specs, anything that the audience could learn from before we head out? I would say just kind of touching on this real quick, all the different fittings they make. So here's a little...

I mean, I think it goes without saying, but these are A2L approved. They have a refrigerant list here, 410A, R20. I mean, you can include that in your little, I don't know if you have like a pre-worded thing on this, but those are all the refrigerants and then all the different fittings. So they make reducers, they make unions, they make, I mean, really everything. So,

Whatever the application is, if you're doing a ductless and you need a reducer to a quarter inch, they have it. I had a customer who needed a 5-16ths to a quarter inch fitting, and I got on the phone with them, and they're able to make it. They're very adaptable. If you need a certain fitting and the quantity's there, they can make you a fitting. Yeah.

whatever, whatever the case may be there. It's a really cool company. Awesome. Well, Mason, I mean, thank you very much. I'm always willing and, and happy and it's stuff like this is, is very cool to me. So like I said, I'm always willing and happy to have these conversations, especially with people like you that got the experience and can show us exactly

exactly how how it works the applications and all that kind of stuff so appreciate it man yeah thank you if you're ever in arizona hit me up i'll get you a drink or something all right hey actually my wife actually was looking at houses in arizona she's like we can move there it's hot all the time i'm like oh that's a that's a big move very hot all the time yeah cool all right well thanks mason thank you thank you for uh letting us come on appreciate it