Author Tucker Max left behind a wild life of partying to settle down on a Texas homestead with his wife and kids.
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Welcome the tucker crossing pod cash, where every story is an honest story and not one of them has been massaged or influencer censored by a corporate gatekeeper. We made a lot of these. You could find all of IT and a lot of exclusive content at tucker carson dot com.

We hope you'll check that out here. Today's episode, about twenty years ago, a recent law school graduate called tucker max started posting his experiences, the details of his dating life on the internet. He became a sensation.

He wrote a bunch of best selling books, sold millions of copies, the most famous of which was called, I hope they serve beer in hell. Not everyone likes tucker max. A lot of people hate IT tucker max.

But nobody could deny that he was smart. He was a beautiful post styles, not something you Normally find, and people writing about hooking up with ladies and getting loaded. But he was.

And then he retired around two thousand and twenty stuff, writing about that stuff and received from public view. And then a few years ago, he reemerged as a very different person, as someone whose entire life was devoted to his own family at a level most people can't relate to. He became a homestead.

What an interesting progression, we thought, to be worth spending some time hearing how that happened and what it's like to truly prepare for the bad times. On behalf of your family, tuck max joins this studio. No, tick max, thank you so much.

thanks. Great to meet you. So I just have to most I want to hear about what you're doing now. But I just have to ask, how do you wind you want to the version chicago famous in at least fun .

school in america.

Peter, and then you went to do claw school is a duce .

factory obviously I you but then .

you wrote these accounts of your life would sound like you're an opportunity. Ama, like how did this happen?

Um well it's the benefit of going to the least fun undergrad uh is I didn't have any my experiences in college when I was too Young to appreciate a fun. They were and I kind of started having them in law school when you because I got to law school, I graduated three years from chicago. And the cool part of our chicago, I got to law school, and I basically already learned the are the hard parts of our school.

Sounds like is easy. I didn't need to go to class like I know all of this. I know how to think all this of schools, because a teacher, how I learned, and then I had all my friends were due, who went to state schools.

They were the Marks of the schools like kansas or Peter, U. K. And so like, and they knew how a party, or like, oh, I didn't have anyone like you guys with me, an underground, let's go do this more.

And then of course, we were by U. N, C, which was all girls IT sound little ally in all girl school. But IT might as well be no IT is .

like sixty five percent.

No, dudes, you, well, the dudes are just like the of the the iconic, serious type of the fopperies thern fat boy sides. yeah. And so for me, IT was like hunting at a petting zo.

IT was so easier we go there be beautiful girls and these dush bag idio guys and I was like, oh, this is great and so we had a great time. And then um we all left law school, went to different cities and I went to florida. I hate of IT like this is to .

work firm now I I got .

fired from A A big law from cult american western silicon valley. I got fired about three weeks to being a summer service, actually not even a full time employee. And so I was essentially black.

呃， it's impossible to get fired. And I did. I didn't three weeks.

Basically, I was an unguided missile man. I was drunk, and all the firm events I did all. So that actually wasn't the problem.

The fifth I did that caused them to fire me. And honestly, i'm not even mad at them. They did what I would have done if I won't been a partner there.

One of the senior female partners propositioned me, you know, like wanted to hook up with me. He was married. Not that that meant anything to me at the time.

to a female .

lawyers.

Not to her, I don't know. General generalization here to her.

I didn't obvious the meeting and for some reason I turned her down and then told everyone about IT which is like if I had sleep with the art of the bullet proof and if I just shut up no one want to care but um I kindly the first of all worlds and so um you know I was I was a liability. You can have someone 演 一个 offer .

would turn down a partner's advance and then tell others about that。 I mean that I mean the bar association can get involved at that point.

That is the violation of ethics intelligence. You, why are you so dumb? There's a way to play this game, and you're doing IT totally wrong. And I was and so um I then I okay, so even that was the black list and me from the legal profession. But I wrote two days before SHE proposition, or before they fired me, uh, I have gotten drunk in a firm of them and cause of a scene, although was a funny. And so I wrote an email about IT that was .

pretty funny.

I sent him to my friend, what was the sea? Uh, we had like a charity auction and um I got up and I took the mike from like the and I was yelling at this girl because he was bidding against me and the Price was high like stop bidden. I can't afford this and I need this to stay at the firm but IT was that kind of like a funny like, uh, he was like, you know you like the funny drunken person in the corporate vent I guys I really didn't go too far.

but I went right .

up social exactly, even manage partner and so, uh and I own email about that, not about the female partner. Send that to my friends, like on a tuesday. And then like on wednesday, I was fired.

They didn't wait to friday, got a Wright. And so of course, my friends are apples and so they sent that to all their friends. And then I like, went out from there. And so that, like everyone in legal persons got the email that summer like I was, know you know, there's always legends. Yeah, I was one of the legends that ended up turning.

And was your plan at that point to spend your life in big law?

Yeah, IT was a, uh, IT really was. I hate to say the god's onest truth is I was the worst kind of like, okay, so I was deciding out of undergrad whether to go to eye banking, management consulting or law like and I was that type of dude.

I had that seeking death.

No, I, I, I was seeking status without merit, which is what everyone of those professionals is doing. And that is that. And I you could not have convinced me that IT was not a viable or valuable path for my soul to go make a bunch of money for bull, which is what you do in those professions.

And and I bought IT. I bought the whole thing, hock and anker. And so I was going after that. But I think there was obviously a part of me, like the whatever you want to call .

the drink at the work event part.

who clearly did not want that. There was a part of me, you know, like like some people, you know, like you'll be mass murders who wanted get caught, of course. Well, I I wanted to get K, I didn't have the, the, the truth. I love to make myself to be hero, but the true story is I didn't have the courage to realized that there was a horrible service path that I didn't want to go to. So I acted out until they fired me and kick me out of the profession.

So when that email went throughout the tiny and very in we're looking legal world, what kind of response did you get?

Um they almost didn't let me back come back from my scenery or my third duke. No yeah like the I got .

back to duke oh.

because I got everyone like I if I had wanted to stay in the legal professional, I wouldn't had to be like a public defender like there was no, i'm sips. No.

no one was going to that a divorcing baby jack.

I had a jack officer that would have been IT up like David french, serious, sorry.

So I love legal job, so ducos mad. So at this point you realize.

like the the only reason he let me come .

back and finish my third year, the, the, the head of the.

the uh I forget what uh her her exact title was but the the only reason SHE let me back was because I promised not to walk at graduation like I was going to graduate and so was like SHE like basically if I wasn't very good, which I didn't care about going to anyway, because I knew was going to a job in legal profession. I just wanted to finish for two reasons.

One is because that I didn't want to quit and not have my degree right, which probably what honestly would have been the best thing for me. But I was one of those right? Like now I want to actually have the day I don't want to say I went to do close school and I have the J D which I do. But then also um I had such IT was like my party years, like everyone else is party years are an underground mine had .

you been for tuning in? Coach.

but no no.

it's pretty funny. Yeah I know you invented this general tune little .

the that I invented fatih and I wasn't in a fat and I didn't write sattin that it's member I wrote but that's a new time, right?

Like they're going to they know about anyway .

they are going to .

literally everything wrong they are so what did you decide to do your life at this point? Me.

you're kind add options IT. Um IT was not a good situation for me because what where I was was I had enough courage to get drunken ruin a future I didn't want, but not enough courage to recognize that that's what I was doing. So I was in like this tough situation.

My dad, oh, uh, some restaurants in florida. And so um kind of the e like I was still kind of looking for the easy path right like law uh uh blaw you know eye banking and managed consulting even though you're working one hundred something an hour weeks, they really are the easy path. They are the so less easy power path, yes.

Um and so the next power path from me was the family business. And uh I can i'd never really wanted to go into restaurants to the family business. But now like, well, this is you know the two things i've trained for I wasn't good at so not allowed to anymore so I can with that path and then um i've got fired from the family business and like six months, they took me six months of excess.

How do you get fired from the family business?

That's a long story basically. Um I was good at this. Now I was good because restaurant business, right? And i'm smart now going.

And if you're smart now going, the restaurant business is designed for people who are who don't fit anywhere else but are kind of smart and capable. And so I was good at IT. The problem was um I assumed that my dad wanted to run a good business.

I didn't realize the business existed for my dad's ego and so I got in and realize, oh, there's all kinds of people here who suck, who are stealing from him, who, uh, we there's all these things we could be doing Better. I mean, really basic stuff like why are we ordering from this company? They're charging twice as much as this company.

I turns out that company is give my dad kickbacks and then these people who are in component stealing from him, you know, feed my dad ego in a way that he values way more than what they're stealing. And so I essential, but like a fool, just like I I didn't sleep with a partner and told everyone I went in, recognize these people were clowns and was like, oh, well, this is my dad and my named on that. Also, clearly, the fact that i'm right is more than enough.

I like, I told him that they sucked in, that I was going to get them fired. And they were smart enough. I knew my dad well enough.

They rally kind of the troops and got evidence against me. My dad picked them over me。 I got amazing.

So now you're a graduate to the most prestigious schools in the country, but you're unemployed.

You've washed out of it's unemployable.

So what do you do then?

I I was not in a good spot. Um I IT was a hard time for me a and I was basically like, you know bar tending, you know work like the kind of jobs that losers and their good that was me like I was a loser my twice early twenty years.

And then I was at the same time I was writing email to my friends from law school about all, you know living in south fort a which h is a so less horrible place, because I don't do drugs, and i'm not all, so there was no social nutrition in south ford, right? Because if you do coke and you got a clubs, right, stuff is great. And if you, like, seventy and you know, plague, often the broker country club, than is great, but there's nothing else.

And so I hate in my life, but then I get drunk and hook up girls anyway and get these horrible situations and write emails about IT set of my friends and one of my friends, uh, a guy, a great, you actually might do you know, shang trend, real clear party OK. So Shawn went to the school with me and is a good friend of my. He's a great food and he actually called me up and he was getting the emails and he's like to listen, you're not good at law.

You're not good at business, clearly. But these emails are the funny things i've ever read. You need to go be a writer.

And I was like, what the, what kind of bitch, shit is this? What are you talking about, Shawn? This is the stupidest thing i've ever heard and he's like, well, dude, look at look at the evidence right and so um I don't wise .

piece of advice I was .

that gave to me I am a writer because of Shawn trending true yes is one hundred percent true and so or I took that path because is shown I was already writing. I just wasn't in visiting that as a profession from you're doing that and so um I I ended up putting my stuff on the first actually no I took like the five emails and my friends thought were the funniest.

I sent into every publisher and every book agent in new york because of the time publishing was still on new york and then there was actually literally this is two thousand, two thousand, two thousand one, two thousand two. There's a physical book of um like all the agents addresses and like the query stuff to remember yeah very well. I try them in a thousand query letters, maybe five between five hundred and thousand.

I got zero positive literally zero positive response. You like ninety percent nothing right. And then probably got like fifty form letter rejections and I even got like I still have a couple of them uh, like some a couple personalized rejections were like the editor was like, this is the worst thing i've ever read.

You should never write even an email again like you have no place in publishing. But at the same time, I was sending my emails, like all the emails i'd forded to my friends would get, that they would forward those, like not just the ones I got me fired, but the funny ones after. And I was getting my emails forded back to, remember early internet email chains, yeah OK.

So I was getting my own emails forded back to me from people in other social circles who didn't know i'd written them. Like, do you should read this? This is so funny.

And I like I so clearly. I'm good at this. Like Shawn was right. These are funny to people who weren't friends.

I like I I mean, he is argan to think this, but all these people are publishing or wrong now, now, now I know publishing, like, of course, are all wrong. They're idiots. Like pretty much everyone in publishing is there because they feel failed.

Writer is not literally everyone, but almost. I didn't know that at the time, but was a guy. Well, i'm not good.

They're not gna publish me, but in the internet was a thing at the time. This is two thousand two. And so I had to learn the program H T.

ml. I put up aside on geocities, if you remember geocities, and it's like, I got feature. And like college humor and a few other like those humor blogs are were really, really early.

And a blue and M T V came in to a documentary about people who are dating on because back like dating on there and that was weird and treaty no and so um they did a documentary about me and that blew up. And then all the publishing companies came back and they were like, what you want to do you or write your books? And then that became, I hope this are being, and how.

Tucker says its best, their credit card copies are ripping americans off, and enough is enough. This is senator Roger martial of kansas, our legislation that credit card competition act would help in the grip VISA and mastercard have on us. Every time you use your credit card, they charge you a hidden fee called a swipe fee, and they're been raising IT without even telling you this gets consumers and every small business owner.

In fact, american families are paying eleven hundred dollars in hidden White busy cheer. The fees, VISA and master card charge americans are the highest in the world, double canada and eight times more than europe. That's why I take an action, but I need your help to help get this past. I'm asking you to call your senator today and demand they passed the credit card competition act pay for the merchants .

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I wrote four frontier books. Uh, I kind of gave away for free. Eso don't have, but three like were published. All three were, you know, here comes with sellers. I think i've sold about four and a half each million of those books.

Yeah, that's incredible.

He was all I mean, because first, because my audience were essentially people who don't read. I can tell you how many dudes in my life it's been tens of thousands have told me i've never finished a book, read a book or bought a book other than yours.

I like tens of that. So when? Why you, why did you stop? And when did you stop?

Because my books were my stories about doing all the dump s of guys. And a lot of women also doing their twice drinking, hooking up party. Osa, and then by the time, you know, I would, I started writing at uh, twenty seven, but the time I got two, about thirty, thirty, thirty four, I was like pretty tired of IT.

You know like drinking party, you know going out five nights week is super fun when you're at a stage in life. And I was way past that stage of life and IT was becoming tedious. Entire sum and that the cost of that lifestyle was really not just the physical cost but the emotional cost was catching up to me.

And um honestly, man, like like everyone who goes, some people go through that face for a week and some do IT for a decade I was more toward to the decade side of IT but IT was um I was feeling stuck. Man like you can't move on in life if you have to be this person that is doing a thing at a certain face, right? And that's, oh, do you was so depressing because all my fans would come to me, you know, I do public events, all time speeches, whatever.

And they were all really upset if I wasn't the tucking max envisioned in that way and the time I would get really mad at at them, like fuckyou. I'm a whole person. I but that was my own maturity, like the'd like to me because of my stories and because of a certain, uh, attitude I had in a certain way.

I was in a certain part of my life. And some of them realized. H.

that's just part of his mega has to sing satisfaction at every show.

yeah. And I wasn't going to sing satisfaction my life. Like eventually I I, I matured a little on, like, look, why am I doing getting mad at them? Like they even the dumb image ones, like the farm mature ones, got that they read the books that they were funny, didn't expect me to be, but that was twenty percent right. Most people like they would come up and that you know they have this multi year relationship with me that has nothing do with me, right? It's totally unattended and it's all about a projection in their mind of who I am based only on the books.

And that was um I got really tiring after a while and then instead of trying to fight IT in getting mad at them and like art, will I just need to move on with my life and so I wrote um the last in the series was assails finish first and I put a like a retirement at the end. Well i'm like i'm not gonna ite this stuff talk about IT anymore um like i've done with this part of my life and then that kind of did set me free, although most people who know me know me from that stuff. And so even that book for years afterwards, like I would be at whole foods and a kid would like a Younger kid or something would come up to me be like, you're talk to maxim, are you like, why don't you know drunk, screaming curses that people lying under the table and i'm like, it's a seven A M on a thursday like what what's wrong with you do even but even now to this, to this day, a lot of people there impression of me, uh, even after they meet me, is still.

how did you find a way? I mean, so you've like, laid bare your personal life. And you sold four and have million copies of books about hooking up with various women.

I told the truth about things. Most people ever tell the truth first.

yes. So like, what did that teach you about what you want to in a wife?

Um well I definitely showed me very much. Well I don't want yeah um because a lot of the I I I was with a lot of women in that here I was single. I was in the women I wrote about IT and then women who were at that stage you know the same stages me came to me and so there were a lot um and I realized um。

I mean, there's so much. The big thing, man, was I realized I needed a woman who was very smart, who was very sweet, empathic, but most importantly, I need a woman who really had her own thing in life, who really thought for herself, who really was your own person right? Because good.

I three or four years before I started, I retired, I would have been really happy with the hot dest go there was who was pretty sweet and basically a trophy wife, right? I would have been totally cool with that. Um and then by the I got to be about thirty two, thirty three, thirty four.

I realized I think I didn't get married. I would been so miserable with that. I would have hated that. I would have been divorced within five, six years.

I realized I needed a partner, and then I started to understand what a partner actually would look like for me. Um at that point that's the crazy thing, man. I I think I had to go through whatever hundreds of thousands of women to realize how lonely I was and how lonely that life is after a while.

Yeah, you know, it's that metaphor is uses. Imagine that. Like, because you don't get this, men, they don't understand.

Women, do almost women understand what I mean when I talk about this, because most guys have to go their whole life IT doesn't matter how good looking you are, how smart or how rich you are, you have to work for women. You have to have game. You have to talk to them.

You have to be good in some way, at least connecting with with, uh, uh, a woman. But once you get famous, all that's out the window like you don't have to really do anything but other than be famous. And there's a million examples of this of those who have no business being with any women were famous who get all kinds of uh uh uh of women.

And you can understand what that's like is a dude because you've spent your whole life like imagine living on a like a desert island and you're scraping and existence and you have food but never enough. And then all the sun, you get picked up off for a dozer ireland and you get moved into a chinese buffet. And you live at the chinese buffet.

You know, like, you gonna order yourself for a while. The best, bigger you can yourself for a while. In fact, you going to gorge self.

And do you threw up a few times, and then you're going to keep gorging yourself? And that was what my life was like. I like, because women are always a scarcity for you. As a dude, IT doesn't matter how rich or you are or how good looking you are, how smart you are, there still a scarcity until you become famous? And then they're abundance.

But for women, penises and abundance from the time that they probably prey purity for a lot of them, right? Like there's always do around, you know, like and so women can kind of understand that IT was, I didn't nursing that all and then I I kind of had the revel in that abundance for a while and and wallowing IT until IT became, like all abundance become sickening. And you have the kind of, like all abundance that's right, right? And you've gotta really an, okay, I don't want everything there are.

Here's the things. Here's what's healthy. Here's what I want. Let me figure out what that is. So in a lot of the best is funny people. They will say, like your inter was really good, like seems like a hundred eight degree turn around.

And might from where I said having lived IT I couldn't have gotten to be a dedicated father and husband and homework if I hadn't gone through that phase of unbridled uh, abundance and hedonism. I needed that. It's just interesting .

that you had all the women you want IT, but you just want IT one .

in the evening. I don't give me wrong. If my wife was cool with two or three, I might be R I with that too. Like, but but no, no. IT was lots and lots of different women was not an effective way to fill .

the whole of .

all in this. Yes, that's right.

For a while I thought IT worked.

but IT doesn't convinced me with any. When I was twenty nine, I would there's .

no age thing. No, it's totally right. I've arrived the same conclusion. Um but how did you get? Okay, now you are not just a husband, a father, but that's basically your job.

Yeah, I saw my companies or I don't know.

but what what motivated your desire to make that your life like? And what is homesteading and why did you do IT?

So what I didn't come up with this school ahead of time. And then do IT I I discovered this path as I walked in, right. So so after I retired from writing, you know, stories are drinking, hooking up um what ended up happening is I was still really well known author and a lot of people came to meet to help them write their books so I started a company called describe that um we you know David garden i'm sure we did his books in Tiffany had dish some other people like that and we we did about on the time I started til when I left which was a twenty uh two like two thousand books and so we were kind of the premier like independent goes writing publishing firm right and uh uh uh we built great company, five hundred employees.

Me in my cofounder zc um uh 呃 built a great company and then IT was rewarding and I kind of went to the the entrepreneur phase of life before I thought I was entrepreneurs。 I was an artist. An artist running a business .

with employees are total different different.

And I did not only do .

one of those things.

not the other thing. Yeah so so I was there was a lot rewarding with IT. H started the business. I met my way first, then started the business.

And um as the business grew and developed and I saw a very clear path to a lot of money, big valuations, expansion, all this stuff, but at the same time, you know my relationship of my wife and my kids and as my kids got older, um even though my kids are still pretty Young, I was like, 嗯 and then I was in a lot of uh social groups and masterminds with pretty advanced and successful on for news who had way bigger companies in me and they were older and had older kids and I saw kind of how miserable they were a lot ways and and like how much time they spend on their business， how a little they spent with their families. And then I would like meter kids and be like, 嗯， sometimes of that, not all of some of them have great baLance and some didn't. And I just kind of realize Mandate as much as I did.

I like business and I like trees. Neural, I um I didn't love IT and I think I didn't love you more than my wife for my kids. And I realized like what I don't know when I came this realization, but I came to the realization that the only thing that matters in my life is the relationships with the people I love and the things I do that mattered in that.

And yeah, I mean like having a company to make money that's important but above a certain level. Like what am I doing? I'm just stealing from my children.

I'm stealing my father from their children. Um i've seen my child's father from them, which is me, and I decided I wasn't going to do that like that. Two hundred million or billion .

dollars not worth, but most people have year and sale to new zealand. You decided to buy homestead in texas, yes, and grow your own food, raise own food. why?

Well, um there were a couple reasons. So uh, you are around twenty twenty one. Yes, so I have to describe all. But um well.

how do they affect you? I mean, you you weren't working in politics later.

No, no, no, I won a piece on this on my blog about how I kind of I thought I was awake to how the world work. You know, I think the time and business you have to understand inner. And if you work in that business, you see behind the country and how messed up everything is.

And and I said, I mean, I saw evil hollywood was long before the meet you stuff and I knew, like everyone, hollywood knew I, I, I was a rapist. And like, I knew, I thought I understood. But then twenty twenty happened and the lockdowns happened at all this. And I was like, oh, it's way worse than I thought like, I saw a little bit behind the current.

but I was the .

emergency course, right, of course.

And did you think that for a moment, did you think any of this .

was just what is so you go up in .

this country that tells you what you thought?

Uh, so when I was watching the videos of people dying in the street in china, like early march of twenty and twenty, there was a window of about being honest. About six weeks have pride fought three to six weeks this might an actual pidemco mic I and so the uh I was uh you can actually look at my twitter timely.

There's a uh when uh south was cancel in was march 40 but then by mid apple hold us like nothing about this seems right。 And by may and I got, this is a fraud. Like this is clearly a fraud.

And then the riot started. And I was like, I mean, the iconic photo of the, you know, the the the the the C N N. With the caron. You mostly peaceful protest and fire in the backers are come on like um uh but .

if you I mean if if you're writing for racial justice, you're not going to spread a deadly virus.

right? Obviously, of course, and my favorite with people who, well, racial justice is deadlier. Racial injustice is deadlier .

than cove IT and like your .

racist scare, right? And that's O K, O K. So this is, this is other total bullshit. And so then my my wife and I always talked about getting on land.

We'd always want to what you conclude from that. So we obviously was this was .

a total front.

But like, why?

Well, see, I mean, I went to the are all the big schools. Like I knew I wall wasn't a shock to me. I saw that coming for years.

And in fact, I mean, I had a company that was seventy percent women and all creative. So you think we would have been infected early? No, I saw coming. I kept IT out, described for as long as I was there, I I was able to keep, that is truly, is actually, if you want A, A, A really easy trick to keep woke away from your organization, there's a very simple way to do IT. You just emphasize, make your primary value, responsibility and your second accountability, and those people will go elsewhere.

is very competent.

Not necessarily, uh, some of them were smart, capable, is that the walked mind virus is about placing your revenue, placing blame for your life on other people. So if everything is about first, about responsibility, accountability, those people will not come to your organization. And so I was able to kind of shelter my world from that IT works IT works beautifully.

Um I was able to shelter my world from them pretty well. Uh and so once I saw all this, I just at the time we talking about summer twenty twenty and like, okay, the walkmen virus is clearly infected media and these people are fools. I didn't realize how to how truly catastrophic corrupt government was until january six, twenty, twenty one that was when that was because no, my wife, I decided island the summer or twenty twenty and we bought our house in tennessee that showed you we are right.

And so because at the time I like I didn't really understand, I didn't think amErica was at the state was yeah and you know, the way I looked at preparation in emergency stuff was a bug out place, right? And so we bought beautiful house in the mountains, isolated because that that's where my level of consciousness and understanding was. Then january twenty first happened.

And in real time.

general six, sorry, general six, how? Twenty six? Twenty, twenty one. And I in real time, I I you just watch the fees, and I saw I M IT wasn't hidden the capital for letting people in, and most of these people were just drunken bathrooms.

And I was like, obvious that this was nonsense, that this was in no way, shape, perform anything approaching in the interaction. And then you would turn on cable news, and in real time, you'd see them form this narrative. It's not just wrong, but literally totally contrary to what's going on.

And I can see, I don't know why that moment, but at that moment I realized that the republic had fAllen. I don't get fell at that moment. I had phone public decades, maybe a century before, but I did not truly internalizing until that moment when you .

watch them tell you what you were seeing wasn't real and there .

was something totally else. Like, 那 media is always wrong。 But I just because the wrong doesn't mean the opposite is true, right? So you you have to kind of look in the direction that they're and in this case, the narrow of they were pushing was very clearly the narrative you push if you want to, if you want to create a fascist, communist, whatever, some form of fatal things and police say, and and I don't all the evidence was there.

You know, like it's pretty common for you'll deny reality until all sudden the last piece of evidence clicks in and and then all the other facts, I can see that I could have seen this yes, a long time ago and I waited IT was like that for me. I mean, you can make a good argument to the republic fell um in amErica you can make an argument and fell during the whisky rebellion yeah right. You can make an argument several times, and eighteen century, definitely during the civil war.

lots of times in the twenty century urge.

Yes, at the time. Uh, J, T, F, K, um, uh, I don't know when the american republic fell, but IT became very clear on deniability, clear to me on general six, twenty, twenty one, that we were not just an empire, but we were the late stages of emma. E, like I i'd essentially missed the understanding the american empire wasn't empire.

And and and then once once I got that, and like, oh, now everything makes sense. This is emma e collapse. And I understand empire clubs really, really like, for I very like all dudes very into the roman history and mongolian history. And if you study the both the transition from republic to empire in rome and the transition from ganges on to his sons, because they were never republic, but under ganges on was the mongol, was what we would consider a free place in a lot of ways for these mongolians. And the transition from that is sons and and grandson's .

um less free.

very different. Yeah yeah. He was in part collapse. And I like, this is exactly what's going on. And then once I got that, that was win, my wife and I got serious about like, okay, we need to actually get ready for what's coming because it's gonna be I don't know what's coming, but it's the baseline of what's coming is in the chaos and we're going to see a lot more of what we saw, you know broken supply chains, um riots, whatever right like that kind of the best case scenario, just more of what we saw on twenty, twenty. And uh, so I kind of dolf deep into the the sort of proper world, most of its nonsense, most of IT are closed. I don't know what they talking about like, but there are a group, groups of people who who I think are pretty how long did IT .

take free to realized that you're bug out? Place in the worth? Caroline mountains.

The first is that.

is that right? So that's not adequate.

Not adequate. okay? When empire collapses, the thing that matters most is community.

Who are you around how? What skills do they have? What skills do you have? How well are you? Can your group ban together and endure the motorist chaos until some new state steady status? Zed, and having a cabin in the woods is the opposite of community, right?

A, that was the, the, the old school american thought. Prepping is really based on nuclear, warn, hide the bunker and like it's just nonsense. It's not really thought out. But if you go study end of empire and you study people who live through intense chaos, they all say the same thing, right? Like there's a lot of when the roman empire, not the republic, when empire fell, there were lots of places that did great because, uh, you know, you can some world order or the local room in general, which just say OK like the we're going na make this town, my empire and the legions are gona marry local girls and this is our area and those became, I mean, you can .

name them, I D O. Lots of .

parts of goal drives for thousands of years. Hundreds did, not thousands of years after, because they had, uh, local rule, all the source things that work.

Now, the roman in empire fell, but for a lot of people um in the aftermath of that did really well if they had great community, right same with mongolia, same with, same with a lot of british park bridge park was a little different the more modern in part but the point is are my captain in the woods had no community, and so my wife and like, how do we where can we go to find community? How do we build the community? And he starts by not a cabin in the woods, by by growing, raising your own food, taking responsibility for water, power and food.

But in the context of what a lot of other people are doing the same. And so we we we knew we wanted to say in texas for a few reasons, and um we ended up picking dripping springs. Um it's not there's a lot of like kind of towns taxes that are doing things like this.

Uh, driving not the only one is the one that we like the best for a couple different reasons. So we bought a homestead. Uh, we actually we bought a place, a beautiful range was not a homestead.

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merchants payments coalition not authorized by any canada or candidates committee W W W merchants payments coalition dot com. So what seven being a ranch homestead?

Well, generally speaking, a ranch is where you just like to raise livestock. But what we bought was because I didn't know, I didn't really understand that I bought, uh, a place that uh, this older guy, this boomer, had had kind of carved out and nothing. And IT was beautiful, beautiful old trees and rolling.

But IT was dead, like, I mean, literally dead. The soil was dead. Everything was dead. Because the way he dealt with the land was very twenty years century kind of mentality.

IT was, uh, uh, besides kill the bugs, urb size, kill the weeds for the lines are raised, the grass like that doesn't really work well. IT works. IT can work sort of for a while and certain circumstances.

But if you want to actually have a living, thriving ecosystem, I I kind of win deep in the farmer culture and original a agricultural worlds. And I realized that those people have figured that out. And so what we had to do was stop.

O, K. I define all the people he had, that we're working their landscape ers, or whatever. You know everything is irrigated IT was hit saying August grass, which requires like hundred thirty inches of in a year in texas, right? Like is so getting .

one hundred and thirty .

inches rain and may arrogating. But nonetheless it's like what what are we doing? This doesn't make sense with our land and and where we are.

And so the last two years i've spent essentially um turning in into living soil and we're generating the land and doing management practices that makes sense for dripping spring taxes for thirty inches or in a year. And you know like and now we have like it's it's not worth going to be in three, four, five years, but it's good, man. We've got uh big flock of sheep bees.

We have meat chickens, egg chickens. You know like we have your garden um start to put in all kinds of stuff. And so we're totally independent water, totally independent meat, totally independent uh we can be totally independent power.

We're hold on the grid because why would we be independent before we have to be? But um we have a system where we can ensure a lot of chaos and be totally fine. And we're surrounded by people in our community who are for the most part in the same position are very similar the similar a similar approach to the world. Um know we started started a older school literally three minutes from are .

not familiar welder what is so there's .

lots of different educational philosophy um act in monastery public school uh wallop is a philosophe started in germany like a hundred fifty years ago. And I think IT is by far of the educational physics is by far the best IT is the one that kind of feed emotional side um is kind of it's like a renaissance yle right IT kind of trying to help the whole child create the whole child of the educational sales I think is the best.

Um that being said, i'm so much sure of organized schooling is right for kids or not because right now we have one kid on home schooling. He he doesn't love kids in his class for for the world there is some kids here have classes, but the other two are older. A water is the best by far. If you're gonna to a school, i'm on the fence about which is Better.

So all the children are out of the public.

Oh, never went into public schools. My man, I would. I don't hate my kids. I'm never gonna them to public schools.

right? That raises the film. And I and I want to put this, the president, in states with the message, I think is relevant to you, which is that those are not your kids. Actually.

here is rebeca put a teachers creed into words. Once he said, there is no such thing as someone else. This child, no such thing as someone else, is child. Our nation's children are all our child.

So your kids are really his kids. He owns your kids.

It's like gone. People say, you know, come to take your guns, like will stack up, stack up and come get them. Same with kids. Now, those are my kids and my those children are mind of my wife.

Now I I will say let's give you a very uh judicious um uh uh interpretation if what he means and I don't think this, but if what he means is I don't own my children like their travels or slaves, that they are independent beings and my job is to store them. Totally agree, totally on board. Yes, in no way they perform.

Do I think my kids should live lives based on what I want? They should live in on what they want to board. I see my job is to help them become four people, yes, and find the lives they want.

I don't think that's what he means. I think what he means is a very typical bureaucratic really is a really a communist, marxist idea. The children are the property of the state that the citizens are the property of the state.

that is. And you disagree with that.

I disagreements not strong enough, not a strong engh term. Yeah no. I I there's just no chance that's going to exist in my words, just not. So I always thought.

I mean, of course I ve ve ae mentally agree with you, but the number of parents who presumptive love their kids more than their own lives, most parents do yeah think who are willing to let. And not just the alzheimer patients posing as president, but any represent the state is kind of come in.

do what they wants.

their kids sexualized, their kids basically like kiddy porn ship with their kids and they allow IT. why?

Is man is a good question. I don't know because I like, clearly, I would never in a million years allow anything like that. I think most people can only give their kids what they got. And most people were raised by people who went to public schools and they went to public schools and they were red. Public schools are designed to create obedient uh, employees like that's the most charitable uh uh sort of interpretation maintains .

the surf class that's the .

does that is that i'm not saying this this isn't like a conspiracy y theory or metaphor like john Taylor guta who wrote uh a couple great books about this um the literal stated goal, horst man and almost people invented the the american public educational system.

Their stated goal is to create subservient employees who know how to be good citizens and I like that is I I didn't I didn't have children for that reason to serve some other men or women or some faceless register entity no. And so uh, if someone was raised by people who went to public school who were just employees and that's what they are, it's hard. I mean this like not judged mentally, I I can imagine to be really hard for that person to understand.

Well, this is where I went. This was good enough for me. There supposed be experts. Why wouldn't they know Better, you know um I I can understand how a lot of people would get to that spot.

Now the good news is all this nonsense luna acy with trains and other crap in schools, uh sexualized little children is a lot of people started to wake up and realize what I mean I knew this. I had never had any plan to send my kids to public school, like that was never. I went to public schools mostly, and I realized how nonsense they were when I was there.

My parents weren't very good, but they, weirdly, they gave me A G A gifts on't. They were not good parents. They they were bad people.

They were just bad parents. And but, but their bad parents gave me a gift. They didn't pretend that they cared. I didn't mix a little serious ly people like.

But i'm telling you, men IT are so many people, so many people.

people, parents or caregivers, mixed love with abuse. And so so many people see those two things together. My parents didn't really pretend they cared much. And so, like, I never mixed love and abuse. And also, they didn't really show up much for me.

And so I realized that a Young age, and the adults weren't coming here, and the adults, the most part, didn't know what how they were doing. They didn't ever pretend they were experts or knew what they were doing or have the right answers, right? And so it's like they were so bad that in a way that they were good, they set me up to see the reality. Yeah, I mean, I just love .

your attitude about your child that that's a wonderful attitude to have.

Well, i've got there after a lot of emotional work, a lot of therapy, lot of elec medicine, a lot of work, I I wasn't always like that. I was angry for .

a war is pointless to be mad of at the past.

Anger can serve a purpose for a period if he gets you out of shame or or other sort of essentially anti life emotions. Anger, a powerful motivating emotion. But if you say stuck, there is not good. I was stuck there.

Is your wife totally on board .

with these attitudes? Hundred percent? Oh yeah, my wife. I would not be married to her if he wasn't.

If we didn't, we were very aligned in a lot of suffer. We met and we've she's done a lot of own emotional interpreter gorg as well. And and we both have grown so much together over last ten years in parallel. And but i've seen people who um who split in last three, four years because their values just went different like they were this sport was already there.

but this kind of force IT so you you've organized your life around surviving what you think .

is coming and protecting so and might what do you .

think might come like?

What does that look like? I had no idea, right? The range of outcomes, I think they are extremely wide.

but you're working to mitigate against those eventualities .

or those possibilities. You can prevent everything if an asteroid hits um you know for a nothing i'm doing what you going to make any difference right? Like it's it's ninety five percent of people are gonna e it's gonna horrible. It's gonna again in in in my um you know haven't a flat shei guess but um I I aside holding aside really truly catastrophic you know know is our type situations.

Um I I think the range of possibilities are basically were good if we're seeing collapse of empire, american empire, which I think we are the collapse of the american state but the collapse of the american empire, I think the my whole life basically the american consumers experience has been based on essentially free or low cost goods in everything, whether it's food or housing or everything was really cheap or really easy to get and I think is just that period is ended and nothing else, then we're in for a major shock and culturally a major shock. Maybe a lot of the rest world isn't. We are now on top of that, unfortunately.

And sad for me, I think we were three. Whatever you want to call IT is inevitable. Um I I think the U S, without going too deep in this robot hole, the U. S. Debt has gotten to the point where awards necessary um I mean how when empires rack up too much that the only thing left for them to do to save IT usually is war and then that doesn't save IT that you that goes down celery .

and decline right exactly .

there was a point where the U. S. det. Was totally say definitely doing the clinton administration and maybe even as recently as the government administration, if the fed had refinanced all of that or a huge amount national debt when the interest was essentially zero, we've been in a very different situation but they didn't.

And so that plus the massive stimulus bill, stimulus bills ah what they were was graphed. Uh but uh h that plus the response to cove IT that they were pass point over. And so what happens when government uh, defaults were uh and then a lot of other consequences from that.

So um I don't know the details. No one does because I think there's a lot of ways that could play on. I just wanted ensure, regardless of what happens up to a certain point, that me and my family and my community can ensure that because I don't think it's gonna forever.

Disasters and emergencies don't last forever. There's an other side. I actually think amErica is really well set up to come out. The other end of that in a really positive place is just going to be painful to get there.

So here's one potential mid to short term outcome, which is that we continue pushing forward around which .

apparently doesn't .

yet have nuclear weapons we do is real does the whole coalition rate against raham? They don't. So how do they respond? Well, maybe they just unplug the next states, maybe a cyber attack or E M P attack.

you know.

takes out a possible our digital .

life possible.

So that would, you know, I can be annoyed to think about what that would look like, but where that leave you on your homestead? Are you living a life that could we are not .

a not a huge believer. And now you have to be upgraded and you ve got to living like the first of upgrade doesn't exist, even the omi aren't upgrade. Uh, if you think about IT like they don't mind their own or and they don't smelt IT right so not know disparaging the omi I believe me. I've like the man these dues had some stuff .

figured out and realize .

prom as for the record but maybe pro certain things uh uh about almost but um no I I don't think of great exists and i'm not a believer in you if you're not doing hand doesn't work. I don't I don't want to make my life hard for no reason that's I just want to make sure that there is a lot of coming political and social. There is a lot of political and social people now it's already happening and I think it's gonna get worse.

And I wanna make sure that i'm in the best place possible to survive, that i'm not trying to to go. You will be the unabated a and live only off the land and only have things that, you know, like the ancient men had, like, that you want, do that cool. I, I, I, I like electricity.

Do not making your own bombs. Like.

do that. I like electricity. I like, can do.

I live in texas. I really like air conditioning. It's pretty crucial for us. I like modern convenience. I want to continue using those as much as possible and that makes sense. But I also, if I had to say the big shift i've made in my mindset, man, is that I was like when I was in college, you don't go work for uh, golden sex or go to law school unless you are deep in the consumer st mindset. I think one of the major psychological shifts i've made as I ve got out of the consumer's mindset to more of A A like a shepard mindset, right? And and I think is one .

of the travesties that .

the summer mindset means I live to consume a resources and status and uh, like my what are basically are most of our parents were I, I, I, I want this house in the suburbs. Uh, you know, i'm going to have these vacations. I'm going to go to these places.

I'm gonna have this rank in my society. It's it's an externally, uh, uh, created identity, right? That consumer, because what do you even know?

What to consume, right? It's what your screen, what your media tells you is important, and what you should be consuming. Where is your status come from, where you know what matters, what cars cool or not, what clothes are cool or not?

That's a consumer's mindset, right? I, of course, I was an american, so I was deeply meshed and immersed in that growing up. But the more one of the great traveler S, I think, of the last thirty years is that the conservation movement, the environmental movement weren't one of the same, that they were kind of enemies for a long time.

And I think so now you're starting to see the perma cultures and the general agriculture and the hunters and the the conservation is really come together and realized on the same side, right? And I I I am a big believer, like like your studio, right? Like I really want to live in harmony with not just my family in my community, but my, my, the environment around me, the soil, around the grass, nature.

And everyone says that, but like not many people actually do that. They live a very a life that is divorced from. The actual soil around them and the trees around them and the animals around them.

And the last two years, I if you'd ask me two years ago, if I live in harmony in the child, like I like to think I do, I didn't at all. And I had no idea what that even meant to live in harmony with nature. And having a homestead was so awesome about having a homestead that has forced me to live in reality.

You can, you can have your phone and consumers mindset. You can live in abstraction, everything is abstract. But when you live, whether having a homestay or range or farm or hunting, you have to actually pay attention to reality, or nothing works, nothing right? And IT is grounded me in a way that I thought I was grounded, but I wasn't.

And that's a huge reason why I wanted to get on land. My wife and I wanted to get on land is because we crave that in our lives. As we did emotional work and dealt with our issues, we felt the divorce from the world.

And one, to get more integrated into the natural world. But they also wanted to raise our kids that way so that they never had to be divorced from that and had to find their way back to IT, right? I guys think the whole point of public school is to separate the child from the family and orient them in bureaucratic, corporate, consumer society.

And I I mean, like, i'm kind of talk because like, I D like electricity and I like cool stuff and i'm not like, you know, not shooting with a bowen air. I'm hunt with a bowen arrow play at the same time. I don't want, I don't want all of the negative nonsense that comes with that.

I want my children to grow up on land with her hands and dirt, understanding first self knowledge above all things. And that is the opposite of what you learn in public everything. Public school is coming from x experts, obey, do what you told. Here's how life works the way our children grow up. First and foremost s your body, your rules.

Second is like, literally every thereby the rules that's like my kid at any point, can basically stop anything going on saying, now my body, my rules, and I want to go, I I want to do that and it's not if it's not unsafe right then I like, okay, right? We ve got a few. And so basic things like that.

Man, I just I wasn't thinking about until two, three, four, five years ago, but having kids in getting on land, I, I, I didn't realize how poisoned and how toxic almost everything in our culture is. Not just american, the world like the way humans relate to each other. if.

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Give me an example. What would you say to us? What do you .

mean food? You want to talk about food? Yeah so um virtually everything you find in a girl store is at best unhealthy, at worst literal poison. And my favorite example, um most people in amErica now for cooking use seed oil, canal oil, can oil. Oil is was literally invented as an a luberon for machines.

Help me IT was you use that? I forget the exact history of IT, but IT is machine nubra an IT is so toxic and horrible for the body, and it's in everything. Now a huge reason that we wanted a homestead to raise our own meat and our own vegetables is because it's really hard to get healthy food anywhere, even at former's market.

Sometimes it's hard to get IT, but like go find something in a grocery or that doesn't have a seed oil on IT, it's almost impossible even at whole foods. Less you on the outer rim, right? Less you're taking ahead of let us or something like that if it's in a package, something like I forget, seventy plus percent of of stuff in packages in whole foods has see us and is poison is absolute.

And do you feel the difference? Haven't ve gotten off IT.

I mean, i'm forty eight years old. Um it's just two days ago, some friends of mine we're looking at one of my book covers and the dude was like, you look like you would you have empire? Like you look like you have an age i'm like, no, i've aged but are unlike most people in our society.

I have been healthy for last twenty years and most people like you look at, I look, I can. I'm forty eight. Most forty eight year old are forty years.

Men are minimum of thirty pounds overweight. Uh, can can barely do push up or pull ups close to death like metabolically are prediabetes right? Are horribly and alphy.

I don't even think i'm in that greatest shape. I just don't need the poisonous stuff I just paid. Okay, trying to only eat meat from my homework and like I you know i'm metabolically.

If you look at all the markers, like my genetic ages, like in the twenty, I don't doing that special man, not like out, you know, working out six hours a day, and no nonsense like that. I just eat healthy and healthy means, like I know where all my meat comes from. All the lame and chicken I E born on my ranch, raised on my ranch, killed on my ranch, processed my range, put on my range.

E is is as god intended. What goes in IT is grass, uh, and water or bugs. If its chicken s you mention .

god of handed dly, has your view of the eternal .

changed raally really raally h so at twice, I think at a certain point in your life, if you if you are educated and you believe in god, this is going to be controversial. Don't mean about, I think you're stupid if you're not a theis at some point early on in your life, because you I don't believe you can reason your way to got yeah I know see Augustine. I'd like whatever and with you in in uh, Thomas more okay fine. I don't buy. I just don't think you get to god from reason and so I was eight is my whole life because I god never made sense if you think I grew up actually a special al church like I was an act like, but you know, a pyle church .

is like a social club. You, yes.

no, like, I D literally thought we went to church to e donors and socialized. I didn't know anyone believe that because I was proposal ous to me if you look at a reasonable and rationally and then um um IT was about four years ago. It's funny.

I never done I drink a lot. Never done any drugs in my life ever until I found uh, part part of my therapy protocols. I did a psychic, right, like M D A L L D mushrooms, but cycled with a guide and and not recreationally. I can't know how you do that. People take galley and go to concerts. I I took galley cry and I got and IT was the experience for me was not like talking to got IT was I felt the wonders ess of all things and I felt the connection to all things and I felt um I understood like I knew jesus and butter teachings academically but then I was like IT was one very specific experience uh I was lc and I remember thinking how the kingdom of happiness within now I know what jesus was talking about like if you meet a bootle on the road killing like, oh, I know I know a butter was document I have a really good friend who is moment and he's the type of woman that like, you know, you meet some Christians and they just have that energy and glow you're like, all Christians were like this .

world I don't know what you're into but I want .

to know more he's one of those guys and I I called them two days after my thing and i'm like, then you you when you say you have a relationship with god, you mean that literally like it's an experience for you he goes. I'm trying to tell you this for a decade, and I like, I thought you were stupid, thought you were fool. I thought you just read the words and got fooled by them.

What you have is the actual spiritual connection is like, yeah, and I did not understand religion. I understand I didn't not understand spirituality or belief in god until I had the experience. And for me, I had to get there on like ex.

I don't really feel like I do. Now the psychic also important, open me up. But now I think I can.

I have enough of a connection to source to god, whatever you want to call IT um i'm very, very much a god guy but not in the way most god guys are like, not a religious way. I I think religious dogma, some people need IT and they like IT and that's cool. I don't need dogma.

I think dog MIT gets in the way. And I think if you actually look at the teachings of Chris and definitely change of, I say the same thing that the dog man is not the thing. And in fact, in the way, although buttons will say, he says that, but he is, I cannot give you the, the, the evil path and all that to help you. Then you shut IT when it's time this .

is your wife in the same place you were.

I think pretty .

how's IT changed your life?

That's like a because .

that's like a different way .

of thing in every single way. I I got past consumers and because of this um because once once you realize not realize and alex y once you feel the one and some people can get there like a church and some people get there with yoga, i'm not saying my way is Better or worse.

It's just the way once I felt the oneness of all things, all of the frivolities in the nonsense in the lives of the modern narrative fell away and then for me I was like, oh of course uh of course being connected to lin matters were all in world part of the same system. I'm not different in this land, or this chicken, or this sheep. Yeah, I my human.

And is the chicken right? The world part, world, parts of the same system, parts of god. And if that, if you want to call the system god amon board um and and if that's true, then my entire approach before that's what's toxic seeing myself is separate from the system as different than the system. Now that is not true.

do you think I I don't know, be imagining, but IT does seem like the people in charge do a lot to discard kinds of thoughts these conversations people coming together to have these conversations. They're very .

against religious y everything I just said is absolutely completely coastal PC ally counter to all things governments um and always shapes and forms. I don't think it's an accident that the raining government power at the time kill jesus.

I don't think it's an, uh, in an accident that anyone who preaches anything like this comes crossways of power because most organized power tells you, however they frame the message, the message from organized power is you need me. You need me. That's right. And the message from jesus and from god, this sickly question is you don't need them.

I knew i'd never make you before and and I and I have a ton of daughter so and I did when you were writing your books and um you know whatever I wasn't live in that kind of life but I could tell you were a deep person even even reading I hope they serve beer and hell not .

to break I turned out .

to be right um toker max thank you for spending all this time that I appreciate .

thanks for listening .

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