Bryan Johnson
01:11:50 Share

For over fifty years, billington s legacy has been great deals on coats for all weather conditions. So before you caught unprepared for the winter weather had to burlington for name, brands, quality items and surprising fits for every family member. Sock up on coats, sweaters and accessory before the, so you can finally stop avoiding the elements and start living comparably warm up at your news, bringing location less than one mile away. Fairlington deals brands, wow.

So IT is the most basic truth of biology that the second you reach maturity, you except adolescence and become adult, you start dying, you degrade, and then you expire. This is called the aging process. And you maybe first start noticing IT in your forties, long after already begun, because they're a visible symptoms.

You get wrinkly involved. If you can stay away from the pizza, you get a little fat. And that kind of inevitable. But we have been told it's inevitable. But a man called bryan Johnson has decided is not necessarily inevitable. He was a very large figure in the tech world, made a ton of doe, and then started thinking about his body in the nature of life, in the future of human existence, and has become pretty famous recently for saying that he has, in a way, began to reverse the aging process and maybe even cracked the code that limits the human lifespan. But watch him explain.

It's hard to believe tech millionaire bryan Johnson is forty six years old, but no matter his cho logical age, he's striving for the biological age of an eighteen year old. His team of three doctors utilize all the latest tech. The plan is rigorous at two million dollars a year.

A life like this is out of reach for almost every. And this is what I take on a daily basis of supplement. It's alpa tizer. And we have a year supply everything we do. He calls his all encompassing protocol project blueprint. Blue was born out of trying to fix my own props, but then taking care of my family and my kids and my parents, my friends, it's generated a steady turn of shock headlines he wants injected themselves with his sons plasma. It's part of his quest to live forever, which he believes may happen in our lifetime.

Seems a little spoke y interesting. And we're doing this interview because one of our smart st. Friends suggested you, I talk this guy, brian Johnson.

He's genuinely interesting and he seems to be he is the founder in C. E. O, among other companies, a company called kronur that creates devices that can monitor brain activity. And he joins us now to see you, to see you as well.

Thank me. So i've got a bunch .

of different questions, some practical, some philosophical to start with the practical ones. Um you how do you forty six, forty six, forty six you don't look at, I will say famously um so how is a practical matter? What's your regime for slowing reversing the aging process?

What we do is we measure every organ of my body, my heart, my lungs, my liver, my pancreas, my brain. And we violated age, each organ, you say how old is, are. So even though, and forty six, my heart is thirty seven.

My love is sixty four. My lung capacity is a jt. My cardio asic capacity is the top one point five percent of eighteen year old.

And so you need to know what your baseline is. And so we've measured my entire body to become the most measure person in history. And what you have, all those numbers. Then you can go to therapy, say, can you slow the speed of asian and can you reverse the aging damage happened? And that's been the project of the past three years.

And you, you.

you can, for example, I slowed my speed of ageing. So inside your body, there's a clock with how faster aging, and that clock is determined by DNA method tion. I've reduced my speed of aging by the equivalent of thirty one years.

So I now age of, in a more journalist way to say, IT seven point six months. For every twelve months I pass. okay?

So I get through remaining an month for free, which is I slow down my speed of beeing. So the damage that accumulated my body is much slower. And so we have done this through diet and exercise and sleep and bunch of other therapies.

But yes, we can quantifiably measure how fast my aging, what are the age, uh, age of my bile of my organs. And then we can use str piace o about IT. And so we do everything according to science and data. This is not me offering opinion. This is my entire body display for the world of what happens when you applied the world's best science into a body.

So i'm assuming you .

quit smoking. Yeah, never started.

never stand. Okay, so that's like step one. exactly. On the record， what specifically do you eat? Uh, I have .

three meals a day, so breakfast is broccoli color, flower, black lands, garlic and ginger. The next milk day is uh p protein, palmer gonna use mac, amy, walnuts, flat seed, a sunflower, sophy and the final mile is very is nuts.

fruits okay um so pizza or rio is totally out.

Yeah they are not in supply at the house.

So um why like if you could narrow down the foods that actually do reduce your life spend on the quality of your life.

would they be yeah what we try to do with the diet is we said if you take the frame that every calorie you put into your body has to fight for its life, what would that be? And so we went through, we reference all the sciences c literature. We said, what has the best evidence and we put into my body that we measure.

So if a given thing is supposed to do a thing in the body is days. And if he does IT, it's days. If not, it's out. And so what I told you is that where every calorie is precisely designed, and these are population level studies, this is not just me. This is could be applicable to you as well yeah and so yeah, we are very particular about what goes into my body and not a single calory goes and it's not back to by science .

what what are the ones you you definitely not like.

Period are basically the standard american diet is really yeah, I knew I was bad. Like like, we all knows bad. I didn't know how bad. Like once you understand the by chemical processes of what happens in your body when you eat these things, it's awful.

Like what I mean.

IT increases your speed, vision. You've got this clock, and it's saying, how fast are you going to? How fast until disease develops or something goes wrong. And this clock, just IT will increase if you don't eat the right things. If you eat right things IT low down the wrong thing.

speed IT up. Let me just push you a little, a little more. Ask question. So like what are the things you just would not put in your mouths specifically?

I. Pizza donors, junk food, fast food, process food.

pizz number .

one ah yeah I I don't need a read meat um i'm vegan but yeah nothing meat. So people can add meat to their diet but your red red meat is not at the top of the things that makes the cut for science of one .

and took in life interesting how much time you .

spend exercising one hour a day.

That's IT. yeah. What do you do?

Uh, cardiff asked lar weights and stretching.

So would you be fair to say that someone who followed your diet and your exercise regiment would have some more effects to the ones .

even enjoy IT? yes. So i've done this. I've made my entire project open source.

It's for free for everybody. I opposed my data, my recipes, my process, my therapies. Everything is shared with everyone. And so tens of thousands of people are on the world of doing this, and they're seeing remarkable results. So I tried to reduce what I do into very simple things that are affordable for everybody.

Those are not included. Injecting yourself with your son's blood, right? That's right. OK. Why do you do that?

So I was we were looking into therapy. So the way we approach blueprint is we said, so what human humans have generated a lot of science for the past, uh, a couple decades and we said, let's take all the science. Let's drink them according to power laws of the best science ever done.

Let's agree the evidence that will see what we can apply from those into my body. And plastic and fusions, where one that was interesting. And so I was looking at myself, and one day I was talking to my dad, he said, I need to tell you, I had this really scarious situation where he, he's in the legal profession.

He said, I road a brief. I walked away, I came back and I saw that my words were a jumbled mess. I was experiencing kind of laps, and I wasn't aware of someone. He said. I'm terrified of losing my mind, yes.

And I said, dad, how interesting that you bring this up because right now the team and I are talking about plastic fusions and that some of the studies are looking at the effects on alzheimer and parkinson and other kinds of things like that. And so I said, if you're interested, i'm happy to give you a leader of my classmate and my seventy old son was there. I K, if you, as I do know, i'm in right.

great. Well, makes this a family affair. And so my son, the plasma, yes, so my son gave me a leader of plasma. I gave my data leader plasma. And the data showed that in me, there was no fact that my biomarkers didn't change. But in my dad, his speed of aging reduced by twenty five years, so he was aging at the rate of a seventy one year old. And after the plastic fusion and continue for six months, he listened to a forty five year old, so his clock dramatically slow down.

interesting.

And he feel Better. He did. And his colleagues were saying, what's up? This is your, your, your heart. You're on fire. why? What's happening?

And IT was plasma from his .

only therapy that he did.

Does he need to be a blood relative?

No, just blood typed.

okay. So now we're getting into the theories about taking the blood of children.

I mean, so this is very common. We do organ transplants. We all donate blood like we've had that experience in our life. So it's just in a slightly different frame, but it's very much a part of well.

it's recognizable for, by the way, i'm not endorse ing any of this yeah but there is a frame to use your word uh on the internet of like super rich tech billionaire living forever on the blood of children yeah not appeal not a super appealing frame I would say yeah this is that yeah .

and we did that openly. We made a video out of IT. We made fun of IT. We made a me out of IT.

So yeah, we this is how we've done entire project is everything's open source is always discussed. We share all the data. We be a definitely on to many the of the. A lot of theories about what happens behind the scenes with .

for people yeah not all them seem basically I guess .

that's a lot of people said is like, well, we find they got a glimpse so you show .

on the lot of children interesting. So I wonder, as I was reading about you, the effect on you in your life, like what's IT like to focus on your body that much?

Yeah, I I love IT. It's there's one thing about building a product. We often time to think of our as our work, as our immortality, what we produce in our careers, our reputation, accomplishments.

And when you think about this way, you are the product, you are your own best creation. And so it's been energizing. I've loved being consumed by IT. I think that, yes, one of the happiest endeavors i've done in my life.

I have taken the opposite approach and not claiming its superior two years. But I had my my pinks all up in first, and I never in that was taken out. I never asked, like what the apple enix is because I didn't really want to know I don't what of spin is like. I've really made an effort to not focus on those things because IT seems a lot of self focus and IT seems like a short trip from there to say narses m which is obviously death. So are you worried about that?

Um my optimism really is physical ho. I did this thought experiment where I was when I was twenty one. I came back from micro.

I had i'd lived among extreme poverty for two years and I had burning and I had this burning desire to be useful to the world. I didn't know what or how. And so I thought, i'll make a venture money by age of thirty.

And then when i'm thirty years old and I have a 后半段 money， I decide what to do then. And so I ve been searching for this mission my entire life. And upon doing that, I I had, I organized dinner with my smartest friends, and I said, let's imagine we're existing in twenty fifty.

This was twenty sixteen the time, and the world is amazing. What did we do in twenty sixteen that would make that possible? And then I listened very intently to everybody's responses and that I put them in a box.

And I um I made a rule that I can do anything inside that box. I have to do something outside that box. And what nobody was working on was trying to solve death. That IT was always inconceivable that you could try to legitimately conquer death. And that's where at my site on.

Tucker says its best, their credit card copies are ripping americans off, and enough is enough. This is senator Roger martial of kansas, our legislation that credit card competition act would help in the grip VISA and mastercard have on us. Every time you use your credit card, they charge you a hidden fee called a swipe fee, and they're been raising IT without even telling you this hurts consumers and every small business owner.

In fact, american families are paying eleven hundred dollars in hidden White busy cheer. The fees, VISA and mastered card charge americans are the highest in the world, double canada and eight times more than europe. That's why I take an action, but I need your help to help get this past. I'm asking you to call your sender today. And the man they passed the credit card competition act pay for by the .

merger payments coalition not authorized by any canada or candidates committee, W W, W, merchants payments coalition. Dotcom, at a public urinal. IT just feels like you're standing there too long.

What used to seem like a high pressure hose filling a bucket, now it's more like a trickle. You, tice, a weaker flow and urge to urinate more often. Sleep is interpreted by multiple trips to the bathroom.

And IT is steadily gotten worse. You didn't think about going to a doctor for IT. They may call IT in large prostate or B.

P. H. I mean, no one talks about this is supposed to suck IT up, right? That's what we do. But we know we need to do something, or life is gonna be different. But what can you do about in large prostate?

The good ws, there is a minimum invasive procedure covered by most insurance called the year liffe system men forty five in order, go to help B P H now dot com to find a euro lift system trained doctor near you. Most common side of factor temporary can include discomfort in urgency, inability to control the urge, pl, pain in some blood, the iron rare set of acts, including bleating action may lead to a serious outcome and may require intervention. The year lift system may be an alternative to medications or invasive surgery. Go to help B, P, H, now dot com to learn more and find a year live system train doctor near you and now OK for the fuss offical part of this. And my friend who recommend this interview said, you know, he's really interesting on the the practical stuff, the serum transfers and all that, but he's much more interesting on the full offical questions and I think you will be so let me ask you grew up in a world and moran world um that believed and taught you that is already solve the question of death actually rejected s you never .

think that a IT would be helpful of there was evidence.

you know okay um so you so you've abandoned that world view or at least you're diagnostic I guess that would be the word on the world view, right? Not take to you personbut. That is interesting tic because a lot of people say you religious people, Christians would say we would really solve death, right? Don't need to solve .

that is solved um .

but there's also, of course, no evidence that eternal life is possible and in a corporal sense, physical sense, right, because has never been done. So what gives you faith that you .

can do IT? yes. If you look at the speed in which artificial intelligence is advancing, we are gaining new abilities we've never had before in every domain of society.

You pair that with our ability that we now, in this moment, we can predictably design biology and the physical world atam by atoms. You bring those things together for the first time in human history, one can say with a straight face that we may be able to grow for death. Now i'm not saying we can.

I'm not saying guaranteed. I'm saying that IT is rational and reasonable and supported by where the realities are today. And so with what i've been trying to do is to show a glimmer of hope that because what i'm really trying to do is demonstrate age escape philock, that is.

So when one year of time passes, I remain the same biological age. So we're never going to arrest aging altogether. But if I will say I age point four and then I can reverse that point four with therapies and stay the same mage biologically right now i'm point six four.

So i've already started at one and i'm all way down to a point six four. If we keep on inching down, IT might change everything. You know if it's it's one thing to have a physical ical conversation is another thing to say. I can be useful and have energy and feel great. I think everybody wants that uh.

one hundred percent live long and prosper. yes. And that seems like a virtuous goal. And what you're doing to that extent of virtues. I just wonder if as someone who grew up religious community, if part of you may be deep inside fears that when you start to say things like we can defeat death, the you won't be smoke down by the god of the universe yeah for assuming yeah his role .

yeah do you worry about that? Um not in the least bit.

Never, ross, the very brave, very, very fully never .

cross .

my mind really. So when you say I can defeat death, aren't you saying i'm god?

I'm saying that the universe speaks in irony, that's for sure and that the story we've told is that god created us and the actual story may be that we are going to create god.

Um what kind of god?

This is the question we face, the species. I mean, right now we have organized society around capitalism. We we strive to make money, have power and wealth.

We engage in warfare. You know, everyone's england for their best interest. And i'm suggesting that this is not a about me trying to the forever. This is me trying to answer the most pressing question in existence.

What do we do with the species now when death is inevitable, you're going to have an answer like, well, i'm gona live fast and Young, or I am going to concrete territories and be a mortal for my quest, or i'm going to make up your your meaning of life game. But if death is not inevitable, we can extend our lifespans to some unknown horizon. The mini making games, we have the species all change, of course, and that's them suggesting we're there. Where this moment is that.

I mean, there you know many people through history have reached similar conclusions, but not with similar technology to factors conclusions right so um are those outcomes but you know history laughs at those people in the story of history. Is man adult with hubris being humiliated yes ah and so I mean I would say there's a great deal of evidence that you will be crushed and humiliated for saying that just the bed and I hope I hope that in the case, of course but but everyone every other living person who's reach the conclusion that you've reached has been Christian humiliated in the end. We afford m so .

what can you different? Yeah I mean, I think it's likely inevitable that I will die the most ironic death that is guaranteed that the .

way that the message of the new test, I think that's the sherman on the mount, the irony. Yes, you know, the first will be last to me on here.

the you, so I will, we agree on that. I you hit by a bus or I will choke taking a pill or you'll .

dive a brocket. O D, exactly.

So it's guarantee to happen. So me aside, uh, I think the .

now I D like you, I think just a wonderful thing to that that is wisdom .

is is guaranteed to happen and so hopefully this lives past me but I think if if you if you have another to another thought experiment me to imagine we're hanging out in the twenty fifth century. We're listening to what they're saying about the early twenty first century. Now in the same way we look at the fifteen century, we can press the entire century into ten things, fifteen things, yes, ninety nine percent.

What happened then? He is washed away. Course, we don't care.

No record of exactly yes at this moment, the same is going to be true. We have more recording, of course, of our exist. They did.

But we're still gone to be compressed in time. And so ninety nine percent of what we do will be washed away. There will be a small fraction that actually matters to future generations. yes.

And so if you even about, or have any way of knowing about.

you post that question the century. So that really, for me, creates thought. But if you try to really clear your head of all the noise happening now, what do they say right now that we did the species in this moment that allowed intelligence to thrive, this part of galaxy? And the survival is, this is when homosapien s realized that they reached a technological fresh hold where the only objective of existence was to continue to exist at the basic level.

So this don't die that when the A I went wrong, the eve of giving birth to super intelligence. And we have to ask all the basic questions of our existence, who are we? Why do we exist? How do we Operate in society? Do I have a job? Do I don't like? What are the answers? These basic questions? And what i'm suggesting is our existence is going to be compressed into one statement we can all say, which is, don't die and don't die the most played game by everybody on planet earth.

Every second of every day, we breathe there a few seconds. We look both ways. Before we got the street, we throw out mall food.

So don't die is played more than capitalism. Don't I played more religion, the most played game and existence. And that's the thing we can rally behind in this moment.

It's it's interesting though. I mean, the fact that you I think that's partly true, but the fact you have to articulate this suggest is not entirely true in the words the way that people, human beings, defer from other animal species is not just language in the impossible thun is that humans are the only animal that kill themselves. They need to be convinced that life is worth living.

Yeah, and I wonder what you make IT that I don't have the answer to that, I don't know why, but that does has always struck me as the main distinction between people and say, dogs or pigs or horses or any other animal. Why are monkeys for that? Yeah, why? Why do people kill themselves? Why they need to be convinced? Ed, not today.

Yeah, we mean, in some way, in some ways were brilliant. In many ways, we are idiotic and insane. You like, I had this problem where I would over eat every night, seven P M to deal the stresses the day out.

Too much food, junk food. I was sixty pounds higher than I am now. Why did I do that? Why did I inflict this harm upon myself every night? And afterwards I say, i'm changing tomorrow.

This is my last day, no more. But I didn't anyways, I just couldn't stop myself from these self destructive behaviors is such a weird thing. And so now what I did is I.

but what do you make of that? I mean in every person has experienced that whether it's drinking or sex or food is very, very common in this country. Um but why does that happen? Because the kind of puts a lie to the to use your term frame again to the envoy string biology frame that we use to explain human behavior. yes.

right? yes. Why do we act against ourselves and IT? Is that us acting against yourselves? There's at the force outside of ourselves acting on us.

So what's the answer? agreed. And we we treat plant earth the same way we treat our own body scores. We treat each other. But why exactly?

I I mean, I understand. Look, every education, biology, common sense explains why I might hurt you. Yeah to steal your stuff exactly and to make you more likely that you know my kids reproducing, my line continues.

I mean, it's not hard, it's wrong, but it's understandable. Why do I hurt myself in ways that don't bring me pleasure? There are purely destructive.

You can see what people believe in demons. Yeah, I don't think you do believe in demons. So what do you believe?

What is that? Yeah I mean, on this question, there's probably many answers on why the solution that I come up with is I endear to build an algorithm that could take Better care of me that I came myself .

but you thought to follow IT and you still you have to want to build IT. So but if you're living over and I am too, I don't have the answer. I don't want to put I do.

I think they are. Clearly, dominic forces spirits that are doing this to people. That's my view.

That's my view. But so i've kind of explained IT without any evidence at all yeah, noticing. But IT seems to me that you have to explain IT too.

Like what is that? Yes, how could we ever act, knowingly act against an interest? What do those compulsion come from? He said the biological.

What does that even mean? Doesn't mean anything. What is the answer?

I don't know. The answer I would suggest is a flaw. yeah. And I would suggest that this is what we will solve with our technology.

But IT still requires the decision that which is a conscious decision that that's .

a good thing, that's preferable to self time. Sometimes I like I just put a well, let's set aside any of those questions. If I can take a pill that turns off my hunger, I don't have to be fat anymore. I mean, you like, well, but if you're approaching .

I mean a whole separate conversation um but if you're approaching IT, logically you you couldn't turn off um the data of is I think you put the side effect profile like what's the downside that's part of the .

calculation is that yeah I mean that assume the drug will get Better. Well, my side effects in the in time. But what i'm saying is all of us understand that these self destructive behaviors are not good.

Why why do we assume that? Like what's that moral framework come from? God.

I don't I don't get that mean even the basics like we just feel bad in the morning, we feel cloudy, we feel grumpy, we feel depressed, we feel anxious. And because we don't sleep well and we're stressed and we eat terrible food and we don't exercise, we don't do the positive things we know we feel great when we do IT, and we do the bad things that make us feel bad continue.

So we all just know, of course, we all feel that way. I felt that way this morning actually mention that um but I wonder if it's not reductiones to assume that they're all biological in cause and suit. Maybe there's a spiritual component. Maybe i'm not living my life the right way. Maybe I have done wrong yeah and haven't repented up, but I mean, there are other potential causes.

No, agreed. And this is what i'm suggesting, that no matter where someone is coming from, what, whatever you virgin, the game to play as a species right now, in this moment is don't die right now. We play capitalism and make money and earn.

I'm with you there. That's obviously a how stupid that end and it's not actually even working ah so what means not working by its by its own terms, it's not working right? You don't have the new classes more.

So clearly that's not working right. I I I couldn't go with I couldn't go with your skepticism more when you conclude that like the current program is yeah absurd. Clearly this we need a Better way.

And just but I do think it's like at the core of your assumptions is an unanswered question, which is why is living Better than dying? Why do people seek to kill themselves? What the hell is going on? Yeah, yeah.

yeah, yeah. I mean, so. I have gone through my life in a series of moments that has made me to distrust almost everything, including my mind.

So initially, growing up in a religion is wise. I mean, I, I mean, I grow in a religion. And then I found out that that entire thing have been packaging away whei core good and everyone is bad.

And then I went through a process of behavioral psychology where I realized that I have all the shortcuts of hypocrisy in the rationality, that I am a disasters as a human. I like to my own behavior. I went through IT with authorities that I trusted in other ways.

And so I don't know what to trust in reality outside of your things that I find more stable, like physics and math. And so if if I try to ground myself in reality, what can I trust? My mind is very far down the list I trust.

And so when I post a question to myself, do I want to live? Do I want? I don't trust what I have to say, ever.

And so I don't know, are we really the authority on what we want? Have we ever been accurate in making those guesses? no. So why would I .

have to say I I disagree I think very strongly with your conclusions, but I so admire the way you're reaching them because I think it's mean the root of wisdom is knowing not to trust yourself. We say to my kids that and the one .

guy I don't trust is me because because it's true yeah .

and so I really admire your honesty. You see what you're coming at this as honestly as you possibly can in but I I do whatever I have a lot of thoughts but um but I don't mean to interpret you so um you what would happen if people lived forever? Yeah why would that be good? Mean the accumulated sadness of life is hard to take talk do you talk to all people at all?

I do. Yeah and so .

there is like ships in the harbor, Barnes and attach and the weight of that over time becomes immense yeah you know memories and there's just a lot in the human life that um it's hard and again IT accumulates. And so why would you want to extend that?

So imagine we travel back in time, one million years, yes. And we're hanging out with homo erectile, yes. Have an acts in your hand, yes.

And we say, where's shelter, where's food and where's danger? We listen. If we say, now, wax poetic on the future of us, of the species, what is the future of intelligence? We laugh.

They have nothing to say about computers or the internet or the there's of microscopy c world, or how large the universes they have no idea. And in this moment, if we contemplate that, we may be just as primitive as homer erector. We think we are the apex of intelligence.

Is that true? We're giving birth to super intelligence. Could that intelligence relative to us make us cave man like in a similar fashion, or more so? And this is what i'm saying. This moment is a absolute invitation for humility that we may know nothing about existence, a very little, or the what's coming away may transform existence to ways that we can even for them that that's how significant that's helping. If the change is going to be in becoming years and decades, it's unfAiling to us.

Tucker says its best, their credit card comply are ripping americans off, and enough is enough. This is senator Roger martial of kansas, our legislation that credit card competition act would help in the grip VISA and mastercard have on us. Every time you use your credit card, they charge you a hidden fee called a swipe fee, and they've been raising IT without even telling you.

This gets consumers and every small business owner. In fact, american families are paying eleven hundred dollars in hidden White busy cheer. The fees, VISA and master card charge americans are the highest in the world, double canada, and eight times is more than europe.

That's why i'd take an action, but I need your help to help get this past. I'm asking you to call your senator today. And the man they passed the credit card competition act pay for .

by the merger payments coalition not authorized by any canada or candidates committee W W W, that merchants payments coalition dot com. Hills dale college offers many great free online courses, including a recent one on marxism, socialism and communism. Today, marxism goes by different names to make itself seem less dangerous.

Names like critical race theory, gender theory and decontamination, no matter the names, this online core shows its the same marxism that works to destroy private property and that will lead to famines, show trials and gulags. Start learning online for free at tucker for hills dale that com that's taker F O R hills ale dot com. So is the most interesting conversations that had in a while because you're saying things that I think are almost beautiful in their wisdom.

This is an invitation to humility. Yes, all of life is an invitation to humility. That's the root of wisdom and of happiness. But then your conclusions is let's live forever.

No, no. The conclusion is don't die. That's IT that that is the sole objective.

Oh, I want to live tomorrow. I have stuff going on tomorrow. I'm excited about tomorrow. Yeah so it's not live ever.

Is this IT is we understand things on the short time frames, and you humans will do things like a person doesn't want want to die when walking across the street theyll moke a secret while doing so. So we have these really wear behaviors. We we don't want to die, just not now.

Yeah, I just I wish and i'll stop at this, but I just wish we had a Better handle on why we have those impulses. I feel like it's very hard to seed with any assumption at all until we understand what has happened or what's happening now, why we're acting the way you are. And if we don't have a consensus on why people hurt themselves, pretty hard to make any future plans at all based on human behaviour.

I do wonder though, if you if we could actually look at a self destruction score across time, you would our time and place have a disproportional high level because of how effective food companies, how good drug companies, drugs, how social media that that we basically are in this this topic capture? It's totally of self destruction. It's a hundred percent show, of course.

I mean, i'm only i'm not that much older than you. We both group in the country there was nowhere near the self destructed mugabe and moran community in neutra. Not particularly self destructive people actually, right? And I mean, there's a high compliment. But the whole country was less soft, destructive. Of course, we respond to our circumstances, our environment, animals, due to you cage them, they kill each other .

when I get IT.

Yeah, but the impulse may be exacerbated in certain periods by the environment, but the impulse is constant .

through time. Yeah, okay. So ask this to know the frame. Here's a thought point for you, so if you had access to an algorithm that could give you the best physical, mental and spiritual health of your life, but exchange for that, you needed to follow the algorithm suggestions. Got a bed on time when I said, got a bed when I said, what IT said, would you say yes or would you say no?

Of course I would say, no. I'm not getting bored by a machine. sorry. And I also don't think that any any philosopher that doesn't include god can improve my spiritual help.

Because like, what does that even mean? What does that mean? Actually, how can how can your spiritual health improve if you don't acknowledge the supernatural?

Yes, I been. I've been holding dinners on my house for the past couple years. I get tended, told people together, and I post this question. And then we have a two and a half hour dialogue about the future of existence. And your response is perfect because you told me, no, no way you doing IT and you gave me A A list of things .

i'm not like the toaster of and house .

around that now. So what's interesting is the next question I ask in this conversation is, now, imagine the twenty first century is observing our conversation right now, and they observe your answers. What do they observe are the charter, sics and morals and ethics of the twenty first century? So flips people's mindset from the negative reaction of, I hate this idea to be observational on what are the characters of be in human now. And I do this because IT is so hard to see time in place. We look at the fifteen century.

every clear and .

clean were like, oh, the idiots for this, and maybe they were under this. But we have this blindness to ourselves in this moment. yes.

And so we have to do these thought experiments. You have to teese yourself out very slowly. People responded that they tell me they experience multiple existent al crisis in that dinner they they did down. They come back up for air to back down, come back up. It's a really chAllenging experience because IT chAllenges everything you understand about existence.

Do people keep accepting your dinner invitations? I an, but I only eat bry's house, but have an existence al crisis before the entries is served.

That's a lot. People say it's the one of, if not the most, consequently conversations of their entire life.

Well, that doesn't surprise me actually because you you have one quality which I again really admire, which is your dedication to seeing things outside of your own, the narrow tube that we all live in. I seeing the bigger picture, and I love that. I think it's so important and wonderful to hear that you made a bunch of illusions to super intelligence president ly, the A I. We keep hearing about. And since you're in that business and this is what you think about, describe what that means, exactly what is what will A I mean, how fat like in ten years like .

specifically, nobody does. What we do know is that. Software can be programmed and mathematical functions can be organized to do things that we humans do and they can do much Better and even do things that we humans can do.

So um we've seen this where they are getting. I just took my first self driving car ride in san Frances go last week, held IT got an entirely autonomous, and that's a remarkable feet that is capable driving a car. IT reads medical image, right? IT fly our planes.

So we know alger's are very good at doing many things and they're getting Better all the time. And so what i'm observing is i'm saying that A I is progressive at a at a speed that is impressive and maybe either even unfathered to work how we can much faster. And it's doing these things that we humans do, and it's going to increasingly do those things, and that will help us achieve our objectives.

Are going to say yes to now when these algorithms become as good or Better being us than we are, then IT creates an invitation to say, who are we? And that's what i'm saying is A I is going to create a series of existent crisis of the species IT be basic ones like um do we trust our government whose in authority, who verifies identity? All these basic things we have settle at society roughly.

It's gonna all the question, everything in the at a speed that won't allow a cycle time to really fill IT out. And so we're gonna this feeling of bill wilder ment words moving very fast. We can keep up. How do we stop ourselves from falling into anarchy? Now when that happened, we happens.

We say, what games we play, the species, what do we do and that's i'm saying it's time to rally around this don't die concept, don't die individually, don't kill each other, don't kill the planet, and a line A I would don't die that are singular objectives. Species, even though this sounds unavenged inal right now, like from our vantage point that that gets no way impossible. You just look at the underlying characteristics of how this is progressive. To me, that feels inevitable over some time frame is at two years, ten years, twenty fifty? I don't know, but it's basically now.

I mean, it's a question. You're right. If the industrial of revolution, the steam powered alem in england, gave rise to marxism in the first and second real wars, envied on korean for other conflict for one hundred years, and the death of hundreds of many of people, 喂喂， technological change, yes.

Causes displacement, yes. The fall of religions, the foul of emp ires, the murder of millions. So what will I do?

exactly? right?

A good agreement. Um I just I just wonder, like what does that mean to be a human being if you have no autonomy？ I'm an adult man.

What does that mean? Such as a measure of my age is a measure of my ability to make decisions about what I want to do and what I think and how I live in and my family lives. And so without that, what is the point of living? Yeah in other words, I said only bostrom by a machine, which is a pretty shallow answer.

but it's I understand I didn't .

explain IT because I don't fly understand IT yeah how I feel about IT. But something in my in my dog sense, my god level, tells me I don't want to live that wife. I'd rather be dead.

Does that make sense? IT, absolutely. Does I absolutely empathy with your reaction? And so the thought experiment is to provoke that exact emotion.

It's meant to say, I hate this idea. And here's all the reasons why. yes.

And then when you get out in the table, you can then have some kind of the attachment, say, why do I think those things? What is this concept of me making decisions ago? Let's just break that apart.

And that's why IT takes two and a half hours to go through this. You need to hear other people's perspective. People need to say, I hate IT, so people think I love that big, but whole time that cares.

An example that you do already that chAllenges your notion on this ability to make decisions. You, oh, dam, good point. So IT really takes time to work through your own beliefs, understanding, because sometimes they just packed so deep, you can get through IT.

And we give each thought five seconds in our modern society. Yes, we can get deep. And so I understand your reaction and talk.

If you come to the dinner, I promise you will live with a changed understanding of existence if this is not an easy topic. IT really takes time to to cycle through IT to be open minded to hear other people. But um everyone is there, like every single time everyone is .

there um what do you serves at all? Broke I I do serve .

lupin food yeah so it's the two I told you about yeah I get in now before I come .

but whatever that just me um so I said when when you asked like what i'd be willing to follow the instructions of the algorithm and I blurted out without thinking about IT no and then I admitted IT to the interest of honesty that I don't really have any reasons for saying no other than my animal sense tells me no that slavery you can't live like that you'd rather be dead which is how I feel my that was my instinct speaking which I regard as a kind of coequal with my rational sense, right?

I don't think it's just like some dumb import. I think it's worth paying attention. Do you feel that way? Do you have instincts? Do you find them? Do you attach meaning to them?

I do. um. Every time I engage in a thought, I observe the first four to five thoughts. My brain has incorrect, interesting. They usually almost, almost, almost always wrong, as like there's a bias attached to this one, this coming out from a preconceived notion. This one has like some self interest is I am constantly trying to be a aware of what's recking my ability to see things clearly at all points time and so um yeah I learned I was quantity depressed for a decade a decade a decade like a decade .

that you were succeeding in business. Yeah.

that's right. I was building a start up. I had three little babies. I was trying to leave my religion. I was in a chAllenging relationship. So just all packed into a tight, yeah, that's what is over eating every night to try to soothe my own.

What are you .

eating the way my, well, we always had some sweets in the house. My partner had a sweet tooth and so I was always your Brownies or cookies or little cake or so it's always like, you know, just one bite and then LED to a second bite. Then tomorrow will work out really hard and work of calories.

Do that work.

I didn't. I failed every single night, and I only think the game liberation is one night I was just desperate. I mean, I was so miserable.

I hate IT myself. I just, I felt so ashamed that I couldn't stop this terrible a behavior. I said, evening, brian, you fired.

You make my life miserable. Because in the morning I would work out. I would be a really great breakfast. All day i'll be disciplined, great. And then nighttime would come. I would bake the kids, get to bed, tell them stories, and then that moment will come like the Brownies. No, just one by to the .

Brownies because of this is like the morning version that made you're not like gone to crack house and stable a oker. yeah. yes. I basically created .

a character of myself and so I would say, alright, when I saw evening brian pull up and he give me all these really compelling reasons like tonight's last night, you like tomorrow morning will work out extra hard and I say, i'm sorry, that's not going to happens. I fired him. So five P, M to ten P, M, I remove my ability to eat, like, no matter what, doesn't matter what the occasion is, you cannot eat food.

And so I started playing with my different characters of brian. Dad, brian, work brian, evening brian. And I found that really liberating, that i'm not the behavior i'm not.

That should. And so this is what I started doing, blueprint as well. I could, I construct an algorithm, actually improve me.

I I spends all day building technology in my company. Brain of emo. You would write the code in the technology and improve IT, and then you'd improve IT again and again.

Version two, version three or four. So all day my technology got Better, and every day I got worse, and I couldn't fix my own problems. IT was such a weird jokes.

Opposition, where technologies improving radical, and I am getting worse. So like this difference, and I thought this is wild, that the species were so focused on the improving our technology, and we are the self destructive species in every regard. What is happening? Well.

that's the question. That's the unanswered the question that remains unanswered. And of course, every religion answers said very needed. And sensibly I would say, and every religion ally has and IT does strike me if you're looking back into history, that this is the only period post war, post war, war two, we've had a society at scale that assumes that there's nothing beyond itself.

And so that raises .

a lot of questions. But the first is, like, why did every previous generation assume there was a god? But we don't like where they are insane? And like.

where did they come from you if someone believes in god or not or enough ever not at great. Like, I don't think I personally think everyone come together on this. Uh, if we already agree, I don't die.

All of us still. So whether we have a story about what happens in the afterlife, what I doesn't really matter. What we do agree upon right now is none of us want to die right now, not in this moment. So this build upon what we agree upon in this very second.

No, I don't know that we do agree actually, because there's no meaning without a power beyond yourself, is there? I mean, there's only this sort of like shallow, silly or sets meaning that we attached to various things like dogs are living longer, feeling good or whatever but there's no meaning beyond our physical momentary experience where as a person who acknowledge a powerful on himself attaches ultimate moral meaning.

Yeah, two events, right? So like, you have a great like, no god, no meaning or am I missing something? So what's the point? Yeah yeah.

And we. I guess I try to speak in the world that I can Operate practically. And so your thought of meaning is a biochemical process in your brain, is a thought you have.

It's a about couple state you experience, whether is love, or whether mean making a, whether to belief and death, your experiencing the thing as a human. We can engineer this with, particularly we can engineer Adams and molecules and organisms. We, we can do this in the form creating drugs today.

We do this in the way of creating variety medicines. We do this in creating implants like we are creating increasingly good at doing this. And so much of our reality is going to become increasingly engineered. So and so we're heading down this path where our digital reality, our physical reality, all reality, now we have the source code to do this. This is why i'm saying that if you take any preconceived notion about being human, any ideas we have about reality, the representation of what we've been doing for thousands years, some of that may Carry over, but maybe not. And so i'm inviting the conversation to say, this moment is not like the previous moments very, very different but here's .

here's the practical um and I want to restate I respect what you're saying and I think you seem really honest and open minded. So this is no way a slight but the but the core problem, however, is that in a moment of technological change, really revolution and imaginable, everything you said sounds right to me. You need a framework by which are the help of which you make important practical decisions.

We call a moral decisions. yes. So if there is no acknowledge power beyond people, or only the power that we create for these machines and there are giant data centres, um then how can we say if I feel like killing you? Yeah because IT pleases me, right.

How can we oppose that? How can we say that strong? We can actually say that strong. We can say it's inconvenient or its detraction GDP or it's unhelpful. What we can say it's wrong.

Yeah how could we? Yes, right. I agree. So we've we basically we've settled many these questions today, like if you want to kill somebody and you actually do IT, there's consequences.

But why? Uh, is the way we resolve the moral and ethical question in our society? What basis agreed we've solved that?

Somehow we have solved that. We just like the government, can kill people, right? But by your own description, governments are going away, close. They are. I know you think they really exist now what our country is its meaningless, right? I go of course so um so like some dude in a farrow way, cities says I can do that will says who yeah .

so I doesn't have .

any meaning at all except the expense you can punish me because you feel like IT and but there's no way to say IT is wrong or right in an episode sense. Not going to say anything is wrong or right in an episode sense.

yes. Okay, I agree. Um what you say is um what i'm here and you say is the tech logical revolution or disruption opens up to space for these questions to be asked. You even though we don't even know where I came from .

in the beginning, know what i'm saying is we're going to have a lot more questions, practical questions about how to proceed that need to be answered now, yes. And without any authority above ourselves, on what basis are we're gone to answer those?

I see. Okay, okay. This is what I am proposing. Is that just like when amErica was founded, yes, IT was this concept of hate.

The monarch has been doing this thing for quite some time. Not great. We think we can do this really new, weird thing of democracy and vote people.

And we have these two and represented bodies. And half the people thought that in saying, have the body is like, kind of cool, try IT. So we chose democracy as a form of government was supposedly Better than the monarch.

And so in that moment, we chose a new form of governance in trying to do. Now, we've been trying to solve the thorny questions of democracy for over two hundred years. In fact, we fight about IT every single day, right? But it's still this basic idea that democracy was superior to monarchy.

And what i'm suggesting your air right now is we're walking into a new phase of existence where we have to answer these questions are new, and we don't know what the answer is. But the the foundational observation is, don't die. So don't do individually.

Don't kill each other. Don't kill the planet. A line A I, we don't die. After that, we're going to spend the next unknown part of time fighting about what that means to don't die.

But as a species, if you take, if you birth artificial intelligence, what do you use IT for? Is IT to become Better war? Do you become Better at killing?

For over fifty years, billingtons legacy has been great deals on coats for all weather conditions. So before you caught unprepared for the winter weather had to burlington for name brands, quality items and surprising fits for every family member socked up on coat sweaters and accessories before the cold hit so you can finally stop avoiding the elements and start living countless ly warm up at your news.

Berlinton location, less than one mile away billington deals brands, wow, looking for a pickup truck to get just about anything done. Look no further. The heavy silao EV isn't just the most powerful silver auto ever with next level toy capability and technology.

IT also offers game changing versatility with the available multiple lex midget and tailgate, which means several to EV helps you Carry large, bulky and ugly shape items up to nearly eleven feet and link travel a together. Lets drive, visit, travel a that come to learn more. A look, I could agree with your conclusions more.

I think I strongly agree with them. I'm just wondering about the basis upon which you reach them. And so without god, how can we say and why would we say that life is Better than death?

Mean the religious person, the Christian says life is Better than death. He has got, creates life, and only he can. By the way, that's still true. We can, for all the tinkering we do, told life, we can create IT. No evidence will ever be able to create IT.

So that might be a tell that we're not god right there um in my view but you can disagree but we still can't create IT and there's no evidence will ever be able to so the Christian looks distant, says life is Better than death because life is godde's creation. But why would the the atheist accept that is true on more basis? Life is Better because i've got an awesome life. Some person I say i've got a shitty life like death is Better like I don't understand if there's no common agreement that there is a forced beyond ourselves why .

we would reach that conclusion yeah or yeah, maybe reframed. It's a person's option to life that that they can choose whether they want to have that or not. right? Right now, death is inevitable.

We don't get to choose. We don't get to choose disease or that, right, right? So it's the option too. So in many ways, i'm currently working to create a don't die nation state. So if you are if you are serious about not dying and this, again, not for immortality, but just for the purpose of we're at the dawn of a new era as a species, and we're going to try to create some stable structure for birthing superior intelligence, then you can walk into that. And no government in the world is helping its citizens not die. Really basic things like blood draws and therapies and medical care, it's very much treat the symptoms when they rise or when you're near end of life, keep your life for some short date time, otherwise we don't do a good job. And so i'm trying to figure out how to create a new societal structure that has the sole objective, a nation state of helping its citizens not die.

Um we, of course, for shorter business would be constructed military, defend yourselves against people who wanted to kill you anyway, not everyone agrees and you should get to live, of course but yeah yeah so bit let me ask you like maybe there's a shortcut all this and I so admire your energy and you're wilderness to think about questions that most people don't bothered to think about but can feel important yeah everything you ve said, I can feel it's important but this is not nonsense what you're saying at all.

But why won't just be a lot easier to blow up all the processing center, save ourselves like the massive climate change reducing energy, draw that A I really is you at the planet. We gotto stop this scrap, immediate, because we can generate power for IT and arrest everyone who's getting rich, imposing this revolution on the world. Like, that's a lot easier. And you could do that with in an afternoon with nuclear weapons. And why wouldn't you, if you thought would help us to?

Yeah, we see the systems we have as a society today enable those things. I like the ability to credit CoOperation, to make money, to use that money, to acquire more power. These are systems that humans have created, is how the world was sure.

And I was elswit. I mean.

so so what i'm saying is that A I is going to improve at a speed that going to chAllenge how these how these structures, I couldn't agree more. And when that happens, there is gonna be an opening, there can be a power vacuum and we're not it's not going to be very clearly more who's in charge? Yes, who has authority? Who can verify identity? Where can you keep money? Is money secure? yes.

All these basic question, society. And so what i'm tragedy is, as a species, we increase our probability of surviving if we can rally around one thing that we can all agree upon. Now they don't die if we disagree. One lay above, great.

I get IT. I totally get IT. But and I hate to, I reduce everything if you could kill baby hitler, would you? But IT is of the question like that because, like, you would not disagree if I said, here's what we know.

We know that A I is likely to spd some improvements, also certain to kill million of people. Millions will die because this really thought about IT the care alone, right, will cause that. I'd bet my house on that.

That's gonna happen. Why let that happen when I just strangle this puppy in the crib? Like, seriously, why? Why wouldn't use a rich guy funded bunch sea tours to block the data centres and to take out the people pushing this crap and to try and end IT go full, unobstructed? Like, honestly, why could do you justify that?

IT would be a question.

who what .

path do you think creates a higher probability of survival? Do we think that technology, or do we think we humans are a Better path? I mean, for example, I look at my own self struct behaviors and not trust him myself. Do we really think that we humans are to charge the path where we survive ourselves?

I don't know. I mean, it's, of course, I know potentially not for sure. And I definitely don't trust myself, as noted, but I have a soul that the machine doesn't.

And so that gives me kind of an advantage. I would take a moral advantage over the machine. And therefore i'm a preferable father, for example, to my children that my ipad would be, yeah, because I ve sold the ipad doesn't.

And so but again, this is but that's a theological distinction, but is a practical matter like there's no way you can look into the camera, say, A I is not likely to kill millions of people because you know that IT is the effectivity will kill people for sure. The displacement that you described, the power vacuum you described, the chaos that you describe correctly, you're predicting that's all that's real. I my you so millions of that as of that. So why wouldn't you just take your money and try to blow IT up in the name of saving millions?

I think the probabilities of our survival are .

higher with A I oh, even the millions will die.

I don't accept the premise. You you really don't I really don't. You know like, uh, millions are dying because of the food industry. Millions are dying because of environmental toxins.

Millions are dying because of, uh, is certainly death is happening at a societal scale for a lot of things that we humans are doing. Now sometimes it's not born of mali. We're .

just trying to .

improve. Yeah yes, I think stay tucker.

So you actually think A I so I I think i've been used by what you are saying. I thought you were saying this historically transformed. The thing is about to happen and we've got to prepare ourselves for IT and the application would be that a kind of bad and scary thing. But you're saying actually for all the displacement and suffering and cause its Better than if we .

didn't have IT exactly. And and i'm specifically i'm saying that when I listen to what the world is, say so we're giving birth to the super intelligence, what do we do? The only argument i've heard is universal .

basic income tradition.

That is not a solution.

That's the middle solution. That's the unring ning for president is the fake smart guy be we should have no plan.

We've given no thought. I gree and we don't even know. We can even fully comprehend how big the problems is and what scale. And so what i'm trying to do is get out in front of this to say it's big.

it's serious way. The second your contradicting yourself branch you just set a minute ago, you think it'll be an improvement over what we currently have. Yes o but then you're saying a sentence later that is such a huge problem that we need to like mobilized .

our forces to fix IT. It's a problem because it's going to create chaos among humans. Yeah humans and uncertain circumstances are very dangerous, I totally agree.

And so what i'm suggesting is if you are for trying to improve the likelihood we survive the species that we do, our children do, their children do. And i'm trying to say, how do we optimize that then? yes.

But I still just want to go back to like why not save us? I mean, there's something sort of classically american or western, overfed, too much money, passive. But the study that I live in and all of us live in, where is like where it's gonna happen. It's like, why does somebody stop IT ah wiving go through all this drama? These are just machines like, let's go full, let I and just take him out i'm serious interest these creepy people who are trying to impose this this top on our .

yeah children so there's another I I understand what you saying. There's another way to think .

about though IT doesn't include blowing up data centers and .

arresting these people I mean OK so let us say, at what point time have humans known all things so we walk back to history and say, what did humans know then um and what do we know now? And there's been a track record of we haven't known all things.

In fact, we've known a very shallow set of things that given if you said how biggest reality a few hundred ago, you wouldn't have to say there's a microscopic world down to the nature scale and beyond. There's this big universe of the scale, the size. You wouldn't say there's an lecture magnetic world that's a trillion times bigger.

What we can see you wouldn't have the same reality is like trilling to times bigger than what we experience. And so if you say, what could our conscious experience be? What could existence be? And a few decades, IT may be orders a magical large than what we have.

Now I realized we come at this now. What is free response? We're saying we can pattern things that we've seen, but going forward, we may be caveman and have no idea what we're talking about.

right? I mean, I think that's what we are now. We don't have any ideas talking about.

We can anticipate the future. We're limited in our foresight, in our knowledge and particularly in our wisdom. Completely agree with all of that. But the idea that harney, the computing power of machines, we will inform us to a grade degree, ignores what just happened over the last thirty years, where everyone now has the insecurity divertor ica, which in his pocket, in the form of iphone, were all human information available, like people were more agreed than they were thirty years ago. And moreover, the machine any machine we create will never will look to answer the questions that actually matter, like wise, my wife met at me, or how that's not that no machine can never determine that and with certainty and or even explain like how does life begin?

So right? Well.

I can. A, I answered, talk A, I tell me why my wife is matter.

Yes, I mean, you know, you you give us some time and you're gna get to read out of, here's her hormonal levels. Here's her about chemical state. This is her sleep score.

This is her diet. Here's her exercise protocol. Talker, given these variables, here is the best course of that.

But that's the mechanistic .

cancer that IT IT create. But, but IT translates to talker. What would be nice is right? Words of encouragement and of softness, and of inquiring how.

how should begin that make I mean, I guess, I guess we're back to where we started and i'll stop at this before I make reservations to come to your house for a broccoli dinner and have five existence al crisis before the is no desert, right? This no.

There i'll come anyway, but anyway, the point is, this ignores an entire universe, which may be the most important universe, which is the spiritual universe in every civilization that left any trace of itself has believed in the universe. But for the last eight years, we haven't and were proceeding into the future on the basis of no belief in that. And he seems like you ignore the questions of writing wrong, of cyne virtue .

of redemption.

like all this totally missing. And that plays are all too, is not just so much exercise to get how many hours to do you, Sally, what do you eat? feelings.

You are not just the result of biochemical processes. There are the result of forces that yeah exist outside of us. No spiritual forces.

Unformed, I agree with you. And this may be the most spectacular spiritual existence in our history that this is absolutely like you and I have the same conscious experience of reality. We may have different ideas about reality, but we experience in a very similar way.

And what I suggested is the promise of this time in point is we may be on the cost of the most spectacular existence in this part of the galaxy. We don't know that intelligent lives lives anywhere in the galaxy. We can find IT, maybe, just maybe doesn't.

We are the only life we can see. And we're now giving birth to super intelligence this moment, maybe the time, to set aside our petty little things and say, really, it's us in this moment and we to experience a spiritual mature. That is just my body. This is our moment there.

I'm so rooting for the future you describe. I really am. I just speaking, you set at the outset that you were no longer believer because there's no evidence, which I think is a fair thing to say I disagree, but I I I respect your evidence base standard okay. Um where's the evidence that technology has ever brought people closer together, has ever done anything but enable people to be people which is to use IT in part for good ends you know Better food, more food and evil ends nuclear weapons yeah like I just don't think that there's any for .

what you say yeah is because humans have been playing the game die. So it's not that technology has virtue or without virtue. Technology is neutral. Humans have used IT for their purposes of war and power, acquisition and wealth. We've always been doing. And that's what i'm suggesting, that what we need to eliminate from society, the causes of death, and that includes warfare, IT includes fast food IT includes all the things we do to ourselves and to each other and the planet.

But until we can account for why we do to ourselves, we're probably not going to change IT. But I think the most obvious explanation is were being acted on by demons whose, and this is how every religion and where are, has described IT correctly, in my opinion, as my dems, whose goal is to destroyed, kill people, and they're counting about by god. But if you don't agree with that, then you need to substitute another explanation in its place in order to proceed in the hope that we can change othe wise what is in this cycle with more powerful technology that allows us to do the same evil things, but at a greater scale.

I mean, am I not a demand?

Are you not a demon? You don't see my I my demo .

assessment ability. Aren't we correctly labelled ourselves Angels or the good guys and incorrectly labeled the demons the bad actors? And I not the demand.

I I I don't know I I guess what I um I mean you know it's all the definition. I but I guess the the corruption ation remains the same, which is people are subject to forces outside of themselves which are unseen. Not all this is the product of sleep cycles are or carbon take .

or maybe IT is.

I don't I don't see any evidence of that because it's remained constant throughout all time that we're aware of. This pattern has never changed, and it's existed in times when people are getting master amount of a roic exercise because they had to walk through the fields all day. When they were eating no cars and there are hundred gathers or whatever it's like it's always been true. So like, what's why?

What is you?

Guess what my certainty is that we are being acted on by spiritual forces that we cannot see if there is a war going on all around us out of our site, not perceived by our senses most of the time between good and evil. Yeah and and i'm that's hardly an original insight .

I with you so what I what what I heard you say is there's more to reality than we can see. Yes, there's forces which we can identify and we should address. Those were on the same page after the same thing.

What are those forces yet that up?

That's y'll. We need to figure out that the whole objective of this endeavour is to identify what we cannot see and reconcile with, and eliminate the forces that decorate our life experience well in this capacity. Spiritual, physical, all of IT. We're saying the same thing after the same.

It's onna. Take me a data process .

that is brand child I i'll .

see with dinner. great. Thank you for that conversation. I really appreciated.