Dr. Patrick Soon-Shiong: You’re Being Lied to About Cancer, How It’s Caused, and How to Stop It
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Doctor, thanks a lot for coming on. So you spent your life, you know, 50 years working on treatments for cancer. And when you started, it seemed like we were moving in the West toward the elimination of cancer. Smoking was a huge emphasis. Get rid of tobacco and cancer rates will drop. Obviously, smoking does cause cancer and we get rid of it basically. But cancer rates went up.

And that is a very rarely remarked upon mystery that really bothers me. Tell us, since you made billions of dollars selling your companies, but you're still involved in medical research, which I admire, where are we now with cancer? What are you seeing in cancer rates? Well, what's really worrisome to me now is not just the rate, but the population in which it's increasing, i.e. the younger people.

So, we're clearly seeing an increase in certain types of cancer like pancreatic cancer, ovarian cancer, and we're seeing it in colon cancer, and we're seeing it in younger people. Just to set a baseline, what's the 10-year survival rate for pancreatic cancer?

It's horrible. I think, you know, if you have pancreatic cancer today, I don't think there is a 10-year survival rate, so to speak. Yes. What there is, however, if you have patients who are what we call fail-all standard of care, the survival rate is in months. You measure it in two months. That's certainly my understanding, having watched a lot of people die of it. So advanced pancreatic cancer is a death sentence. Where are you seeing it now?

Well, I got to tell you a really concerning story. It's not only I'm seeing it now,

I'm seeing it in younger people and for the first time in my career. You know, when I left UCLA, I was doing all the Whipple's, which is a surgery to actually remove most of the pancreas, a very big operation. You're a surgeon as well. I'm a surgeon. Yes. And I was also doing pancreas transplants for type 2 diabetes and eyelid cell transplants and stem cell transplants. So I had this diverse activity as a UCLA assistant professor. But I never saw pancreatic cancer in children.

The greatest surprise to me was a 13-year-old with metastatic pancreatic cancer that the family called us to help. And to me, that wasn't only devastating, it emphasized the idea that we've seen people with higher incidence of pancreatic cancer and younger. Right now in our clinic, we have 45-year-old, 50-year-old. And what was sad about this young boy was

By the time he came to see us, he had exhausted all standard of care. And he came from Butler, Pennsylvania. And all the major medical centers really had exhausted all their therapy. By the time he came to see us, his body was ridden and he passed away. So seeing cancers now in younger people and almost a rise, almost...

I don't want to call it a non-infectious pandemic, but this is what I think is going to be worrisome in the world, not just in the United States, but largely in the United States we're beginning to see this, and it's really worrisome. A non-infectious pandemic of cancer, including deadly cancers. Correct. Like pancreatic. In your career, which I think is about 50 years of working on this, how many 13-year-old pancreatic cancer patients have you seen? Never. Never.

I inquired around because it bothered me so much now why this is happening. So Dr. Stephen Day was a good friend who was trained with me at UCLA when I was at UCLA. He's now at the Angelus Clinic and I called him and he said, listen, Patrick, I'm now seeing an eight-year-old, a 10-year-old, an 11-year-old with colon cancer. Colon cancer? Colon cancer. We've never seen that.

We're seeing now 30-year-old, 40-year-old ladies, young ladies with ovarian cancer. So this is a real phenomenon of a rise of cancer in early people, in young people, and really need to get to the bottom of that. Do you notice a difference in the virility of the cancer, of the speed with which it moves?

Well, I'm getting reports, they've even called it turbocharged cancers. Yes, I've heard that phrase. Right? I'm getting reports of that now, that people that have been in remission before even are now getting back to cancers and very rapidly progressing. So if you really think about what the cause of cancer is, you know, and I did a piece with Sanjay Gupta many, many years ago on 60 Minutes.

And I said, you know, the cause of cancer is its inability, it's not the rapidity of its growth, but its inability to die. And its inability to die is because it either hides from the cells that matter, i.e. your natural killer cells, your T-cells, or, and this is what I'm really worried about, your body and the cancer has found a way to suppress your killer cells.

And once they do that, once they activate what are called the suppressor cells, and you call yourself immunosuppressed, then I think you see this rapid progression because there's nothing stopping them. What could possibly be causing this?

Well, I think if you look back of causes, you know, ironically, when I was doing at UCLA, I was working on pancreas transplant where I want to immunosuppress the patients. Yes, you have to. Yeah, because you prevent it. And then I was working on cancer where I don't want to immunosuppress. So I needed to understand the body's mechanism. And we have a crazy, wonderful, exquisite balance in our body.

You have the yin and the yang of the killer cells and these things called natural killer cells and T cells. Whose job is to kill anything that threatens the body? Whose job is to kill, quite right, anything that threatens the body, whether the body has infection. If you have TB, you have HIV, if you have hepatitis, you have COVID, these cells are there to recognize these infected cells and kill it.

As you and I are sitting here today, our stem cells are growing in order to replenish parts of your body, your heart. If you didn't have that, you wouldn't have a heart. At the age of 14, you need those stem cells. But mathematically, there are some cells that are transformed, and your body recognizes that through these natural killer cells and kills it. I call that nature's first responder.

And that's your mechanism. That's how we are all protected and we are in the state of equilibrium or balance. On the other hand, the moment either the tumor find a way to hide from these cells or your body's or the tumor causes these cells to be suppressed. And that's why I call this the suppressor cells. And there are certain cells in your body called Treg cells or myelo-derived suppressor cells. It's all technical.

that when they get upregulated, you've lost your protection. And so the question then is, how do we understand this balance? How do we increase the killers and how do we decrease the suppressors? So that's been 50 years of my challenge of, and how do we expose the tumor?

So, on the one hand you need to expose the tumor because it hides from the killers. On the other hand you activate the killers. On the other hand you have to suppress the suppressors. So we're truly playing a game of chess. And I think like astrophysicists where you're looking for God's particle, where all these molecules are floating around talking to each other, all the cells are floating around talking to each other, and this dynamic interaction.

And how do you understand all of that? You know, one of the best, most fun lectures I gave, I gave a lot of lectures on this and tried to be non-technical because it's basic, what I call basic immunology. And the problem with cancer is it's been treated by oncologists and not immunologists.

And immunologists don't see patients because they look at basic immunology. And then when you have infection and you have virology, so this cross disciplines of virology, immunology, oncology, all these ologies don't talk to each other. So you're saying just big picture for non-specialists, of which I'm of course one.

You're saying that cancer is to some extent a problem with your immune system. It is everything about your immune system. So you've got all kinds of defective cells that could become cancer or cancer in your body at all times. At all times. But your body is zapping them. Correct. And that's the fundamental balance of the human body. Correct. And when that body gets out of balance, when the killer cells become suppressed or less effective, that's when you get cancer. Correct.

Okay, so I'm sorry to interrupt. I just want to keep this up. No, I love it because that's the perfect interpretation that I couldn't do in a non-technical way because I think I get too nerdy. So I'm glad. Well, you are a doctor. So, but that's, I think, is what's happening in our body. We have these perturbations internally.

But we're in equilibrium, you know, and that's a good thing. The moment you knock yourself out of equilibrium, now what could knock you out of equilibrium? And that's why when, you know, Bobby Kennedy is talking about and standing up about the toxins in our food, the toxins in PFAS, the processed food, and viral infections. And really what knocks you out of balance basically is inflammation.

If you have inflammation in your body, there's this, now I'm going to get nerdy again, these cells called neutrophils that actually see an infection and tries to kill it, which it does. But if there's persistent inflammation, these neutrophils actually flip into a suppressor cell. So what people don't realize is that we have the yin yang in our body that every cell has a counter cell.

And that's where I was about to go there. I said the most fun conversation I had where I was asked by astrophysicists or physicists to give a lecture is I named this concept of cancer a quantum theory, like a physicist. And that in our body, we have cells that can be in two states. It can be a killer or a suppressor.

And like the Schroeder's cat, it could be alive or dead. And it depends what you do with it. And so I named the thing quantum oncotherapeutics just to be controversial so that doctors could understand what I'm talking about is that we need to understand the fact that you have a killer T-cell.

and you have a killer suppressor cell. We have an M1 macrophage that actually chomps things up, and M2 macrophages that blocks that. You have an NK cell that kills, and NK cells that inhibits. And we need to have that balance, otherwise you'll get into autoimmune disease. But there's a thing called quantum entanglement, that is this cat alive or is this cat dead? If somebody interacts with that, and the person that interacts with that is the doctor.

So you as a doctor could either be enlightened enough to activate just the activators and suppress the suppressors and change the dynamic towards the cure. But it's very complex because it's now quantum because all those changes are happening in minutes in your body. These molecules, like God's particle, where they're colliding with each other and cells are colliding and interacting, happens within minutes.

So you need to have a theory of how you interact at that level. And in so doing, the first thing you need to understand is how does cancer happen? And then how does it grow? How do you stop it? This idea of a vaccine, a cancer vaccine, do you radiate that cancer? Do you remove that cancer? Do you remove the lymph nodes? Do you give chemotherapy? And crazy enough, over the last 50 years,

I figured out that everything we're doing is not the word wrong, because that's a bad statement, a pejorative statement. It's not enlightened, a better way to say it. Because everything we're doing is tipping the scales towards the suppressor cells. We're activating the suppressor cells. We're not activating the killing cells. And we can go into this conversation where I can explain that. So the key system, which you just said, is cancer is all about the immune system.

So if you activate the immunosuppression system, you get more cancer. So then the fundamental root cause is what's activating that immune system on the other way. Yes. And that's inflammation. Something is suppressing people's immune systems, including the poor 13-year-old boy who died of pancreatic cancer.

And the question is, what is that? And maybe there are a lot of causes, but it is, you know, we're not the first people to notice there's been an increase in scary cancers in populations that didn't used to get them. It's very obvious just from living here. And a lot of people have pointed to both COVID, the virus, and to the mRNA COVID vaccines as potential causes. Do you think that they're related? The best way for me to answer that is to look at history.

What we know about virally induced cancers is well established. We know that if you get hepatitis, you get liver cancer. Hepatitis is a virus infection. We know if you get human papillomavirus, HPV, you get cervical cancer. Yes. Certain kinds of throat cancer are caused by viruses as well, right? If you get HIV, you get Kaposi's sarcoma. Yes. So...

We call that oncogenic viruses in medical terms, meaning viruses that are induced carcinogenic. And the fundamental basis for that are threefold. The hallmarks of an oncogenic virus is one, it must persist. And why? Because it continues to create inflammation. And why? With inflammation, you get suppression because your body's trying to suppress it. It must inhibit the thing called P53 that's in your body to try and protect your body from not having cancer.

And if it persists and causes inflammation and inhibits p53, it begins to have the hallmarks of an oncogenic virus. So then the question is, does COVID, whether it comes from the vaccine, which is the spike protein vaccine,

Or from the infection, which is spike-driven, that gets into every cell of our body. Every cell of the body? It goes wherever you have this thing called the ACE2 receptor, which is in the blood vessels. So wherever you have a blood vessel in your body, it's where it's going to go. And if it has an ACE2 receptor on that blood vessel, that's where it can go. Because that's the purpose of the spike protein, to penetrate, to hijack that ACE2 receptor and get into their cells.

So that's why it gets in the pancreas. That's why you have brain fog, because it disrupts the blood vessels of the brain and causes mitochondrial dysfunction. That's why in the colon, which has a high, in the GI tract, there's a high ACE2 receptor. That's why pancreas has a high ACE2 receptor, where that's why you people have, in the heart, you have dysfunction. You've seen young people who have sudden heart attacks all of a sudden.

You see young people with pancreatic cancer all of a sudden. You see young people with colon cancer all of a sudden. So is it by coincidence that post-COVID infection, post-COVID vaccine, we're seeing all these events where we know the spike protein goes there? I don't think so. I think it's not a coincidence. So the question is, can we prove, is this what I call long COVID virus persisting?

And the group at University of California, San Francisco has now definitively proven that and published that in papers like Nature. Can we also prove that once you have that persistence of that virus, does that COVID virus suppress the natural killer cell? Does a natural killer cell actually not only go to sleep, becomes what we call energic? That's now been published. The natural killer cell has gone to sleep. So by your definition, we just solved the mystery right there.

I think so. I think this is a conversation I had with the... Well, but wait. I mean, billions of people, literally billions of people had the COVID virus. Over a billion got the spike protein vaccine. So that's like, we're talking like a huge percentage of the Earth's population, unless I'm missing something. Now you understand what keeps you awake at night. And it's kept me awake at night for two years, two and a half years.

And that's why I sort of abandoned everything just to focus on how do we clear the virus? Because the answer is to clear the virus. From the body. From the body. The answer is to stop the inflammation because it's chronic inflammation. Privacy should be a right for all citizens in this country. It's a prerequisite to freedom. No privacy, no freedom. Unfortunately, in America, privacy is a luxury.

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So can I ask a dumb question? How long does the virus remain in the human body? So far we've found three years, four years. Is there any reason to believe it will naturally go away? Not if your body's immune suppressed. So it's a circle. You ask what causes cancer because your body's immune suppressed. You have in your body nature's compound.

And if the tumor or the infection or the inflammation suppresses it, you have to find a way to reactivate it and clear the virus. It's literally as simple as that. And that's the missing link that I think... So it sounds like you're describing what could be like the worst human health crisis in history. I don't know how to say that without saying it. It scares the pants off me because I think...

What we may be, I don't think it's virus versus man now, you know, this is existential. I think when I talk about the largest non-infectious pandemic that we're afraid of, this is it. Because while there was an increased rise in cancer in our country because of the idea of the toxins and everything else, this immunosuppression that has occurred now globally,

And more importantly, the immunosuppression tied to inflammation, chronic inflammation, which is asymptomatic in some times and sometimes it's not. There's 15 million Americans with long COVID. And they're not psychiatric when they have memory loss. They're not psychiatric when they have instantaneous heart attacks. It's not psychiatric when you have an 8-year-old, 10-year-old with colon cancer, a 13-year-old with pancreatic cancer. So the...

The idea was, is there a solution? And this is what, thank God. Well, I certainly hope so. Because you spent your life around scary diseases. Like, that's been your life. And if you're scared, then that's not a good sign. I'm scared but hopeful. I think it's important for me to have this conversation with you. That's why, okay, I'll share with you a conversation I had. I got invited by the CEO of the Henry Jackson Foundation to come to D.C.,

I think October, November last year during the election phase, and just to have a conversation about what I'm doing. And there he brought the leader from Walter Reed, the barter, the DOD, the NIH, the NID, all into that room. It was just me. And I said, it is time. It is time for me to reveal to this learned group of leaders about what I'm scared about.

And I spent, I think it was three hours, no slides, just me speaking alone on the stage and all of them in the audience. When I first started the conversation, the first sentence was, "I think COVID is oncogenic." One of the members of the audience said, "That's nonsense." I said, "Okay, let me explain to you what we've been doing in our research." At the end of three hours, four hours, he said, "You've got to publish this. This is so important."

And I said, yes, we are processing the publication. And what came out was this paper that they biopsied the colon of young people temporarily when no COVID, two COVID, and showed the persistence of replicating viruses in the colon tissue two years out. Replicating COVID viruses? Replicating COVID viruses. Replicating. Asymptomatic replicating in the tissue, meaning there's inflammation.

And when you have this inflammation, these neutrophils, now getting geeky again, plasticize, flip from a protective neutrophil to a suppressive neutrophil. It's called an N2. It's called a myeloderived suppressor cell. That's an official name. So now you have suppression in your body. And it's no wonder that then converts into colon cancer. Is this true, do you think, for, I mean, have you had COVID? No. Lucky man. Not lucky man.

T-cell man. I have a T-cell in my body that protects me from the nuclear capsid. Where do I get one? That trial was held up by the FDA and by Collins and Fauci. You never got COVID because your protector cells were so strong? Not only a protector cells. If I do get COVID, the virus clears. You want to clear the virus. Get the hell out of my body. Get it out.

Wait, I just want to pause here. I know you're in the midst of a much larger story, but this is something I think everyone can understand. So I think I'm in good health. I am in very robust. Did you have COVID? I did. How many times? One. I never took the virus. I never took the vaccine. Okay. But I got COVID, knocked me right on my butt. It was a bad three days. Fine. But

I don't understand. You're older than I am. How did you never get... I just want to get very specific. Like, how did... I mean, everyone on the planet got COVID. Okay, so let me give you some idea. Okay. One, because we understand the implications. My wife, Dutchwood, also never got COVID because both of us. So this is the story. Okay.

We, by, unfortunately, I relate this, it's a painful thing to me because I relate it to Kobe's death. It was during Kobe's time when he passed away and at the funeral. Kobe Bryant, who you were close to. Correct, very close to. And at the funeral, at his funeral, all the people in the room, and it was, I think, November, and I turned to Gavin Newsom and I said, listen...

This is one virus I'm worried about because I was studying this virus. You know, I understand HPV very well and I understand hepatitis. I said, this is not a respiratory virus. This is a dangerous virus. So I went back and I shut down our organization so that we could actually do nothing else but COVID. My entire team of hundreds of scientists said,

on Zoom and everything else around the world. I said, we must go after this virus with a vaccine that clears the virus. And the only way to clear the virus is to have what we call a T cell, an NK cell, the cell that kills cancer cells. And I wrote a paper with Carlos Cardona that says COVID's like cancer and cancer's like COVID, meaning it's immune suppression that causes its spread.

and its immunosuppression by the COVID virus that allows it to persist. So the only vaccine that's important is a T-cell vaccine. But that's why I'm telling you, virologists think about antibodies versus cellular therapy. It's foreign to them to have a vaccine that stimulates T-cells.

So I said, I understand that internally. It's a little weird since in 20 minutes you explained it to me, not particularly high IQ, not a scientist. I understand exactly what you're saying. Why isn't it obvious to virologists? Why isn't that like day one lesson in virology school that the T cells, the cells that protect you against all potential internal harm, they're the key? Because every vaccine so far is antibody based.

Dogma. Dogma. Blind spots. Okay. Now we're cooking with gas. Now I understand what you're talking about. Dogma. Blind spots. Nicely put.

Okay, I'm sorry, I keep stepping on your story. So you figure out...

Wow. Yeah. We'd come to LA. We'd do this. Shoot, shoot, shoot, shoot. And we just had breakfast. That's it. Okay. So you figure out early. Everyone's panicked about COVID. Okay. But your position is they're panicked for the wrong reasons. Correct. And actually, maybe they're not quite as panicked as they should be because this virus could pave the way for cancer because it will suppress the immune system of the human body.

So you, in November, you said, when did you? Right. So by March 2020, we had the vaccine. March 2020. Because I had built a full GMP facility for cancer using the same vaccine that NCI had retested for HPV and for colon cancer, a thing called CA. So I'd created this vaccine in which we would educate your body prior to COVID

for the treatment of cancer to educate the T cells to recognize a cancer cell to kill it. That's called a cancer vaccine, which by the way is the only vaccine in clinical trials today to prevent cancer that the NCI is running using our technology. Is there any way you can take the word vaccine out and call it something else? I'm calling it BioShield. Good.

Because vaccine just scares the crap out of people at this point. I know, because it's not a vaccine in that general sense of an antibody-based vaccine. It's your body's bio-shield. So we'll announce it on the show. We're going to call this Project BioShield, which, by the way, in 2004, there was a BioShield Act for national preparedness against radiation, against a pandemic of infectious diseases.

So, we have the worst thing that could happen to you is to have one dose of radiation will wipe out your NK cells and your T cells. That's how you die. Yes. That's how you get cancer. It zaps your immune system. It zaps your immune system. So, we wanted to create a bio-shield. And the bio-shield is to educate your body to have these T cells called memory T cells that go and hide in the bone marrow and come out when they need it.

and kill that cell so it can never do damage. That's the concept. And it's not a foreign concept. We published it with the National Cancer Institute. So by March 2020, I took all my resources. Thank God we had the resources. So that's the sort of gift. Was this your money? All my money.

Okay, so I should just say, I alluded to it earlier, but you had a couple of companies making cancer drugs. You owned all of them. I mean, you own, I think, 100% of the companies. You sold them for $10 billion or something. But rather than buy a vineyard, you continued in your work. Is that a fair? Very fair. You know, as I said to you over breakfast, I had no idea about stocks.

So, when the two companies were bought, and they were bought for the right reasons. So, one company was American Pharmaceutical Partners, and we were making literally close to a million vials a day in the United States, manufacturing of 150 different SKUs for every part of the hospital, and we're safe for heparin. So, Fresenius said, we want to buy you. We said, great. And then I developed this molecule.

that was feeding the tumor that could actually activate the immune system to activate the macrophages called the bracing. And Seljin said, "We want to buy you." I said, "Great." And the purpose for my selling them was not for the money, clearly it was for the money, but the purpose of the use of the money to pursue this dream of this astrophysics to find God's particle in your human body to activate your immune system. That was the purpose of this money.

And that's all I've done with the money. I spent about $3 billion of this money. I've not gotten one penny from the government. Not even one dime. You're the only one. And maybe that's the freedom and the liberation allow me to say what I can say now. Yes, that's right. So again, I keep pulling this away because there's a lot here that's interesting, but how did you not get COVID? Okay. So I recognized that

So Peter Marks and I had these conversations. So he was head of CBER and I was in pinging him with the science because this is a biologic. And I was saying to Peter, listen, Peter, I need to show you that we need to create a T cell vaccine. And he said, well, we don't do T cell vaccines. Everybody's doing the other vaccines, but great. Let's continue. The antibody vaccines. Antibody vaccines. And then he called me and he said, we're going to create warp speed.

And he's a star trekking and I'm a star trekking. I love warp speed. I said, okay, we're going to do this in warp speed. Absolutely. But the only way, Peter, you're going to do this in warp speed, you need, we need as a country to have NIH and BARDA fund a trial where we take macaque monkeys.

We give them the vaccine and everybody should throw their vaccine in because I don't care whether it's not mine or theirs, whoever's vaccine, to clear the virus. The only way to do this experiment, you give the monkeys the vaccine. It's under your control. You have 100 monkeys. Everybody gets a set of vaccines. And then you infect the monkeys in the BSL-3 facility with a high dose of COVID vaccine.

And then you see in their lungs and the tissue that there's no virus after seven days. Absolutely. That was warp speed. So I was one of eight of warp speed. Then I get a call, Patrick, you dewarped. You are there. I said, test my vaccine anyway. They did a vaccine test of the NIH and Barda cleared the virus. As I predicted, there was no virus in the lungs after a big infection.

So I said, okay, I'm dewarped. And this was a Francis Collins scheme and Anthony Fauci scheme and Monsi Slaoui scheme. And one day we'll talk about the conversation I had with Monsi Slaoui and what I've learned about Francis Collins in that event. And they were going to go after this antibody vaccine, which is this mRNA vaccine with spike.

And I said, this is too important. I told my people, we're going to build our own vaccine with our own money. I couldn't get enough material other than to do one batch. And we're going to do a phase one trial. And we're going to inject as many people that we can do in the phase one trial. I'm one of them. I injected myself. And your wife? And we're going to measure. I don't want to talk about the family. Oh, of course. And we're going to measure my own blood.

I drew my own blood and tested, and I have T cells to nucleocapsid and to spike, which means if I were to get COVID, touch wood, the T cells, now our memory T cells, would clear the virus. So we then tried, begged, begged, because not for funding even.

But for the plastic bags that were now restricted as you grow these things to Pfizer and Moderna, all the materials that you need in a biologic facility got zero. I've only got one batch. So I said, I'm going to South Africa and inject these in patients with HIV because that's the biggest test you could have. You couldn't generate T-cells in the patients with HIV and do this phase two and phase three trial in South Africa. So we did that.

And then I called Peter and I said, Peter. I'm sorry, what were the results like? T-cells. The people that, interestingly enough, it doesn't say, just so you know, you have to differentiate, does it actually prevent the penetration of the virus versus the load of the virus versus the clearance of the virus? These are three different things. So,

We think it prevents the penetration, but we don't know because as soon as it does penetrate, it would clear, so you wouldn't even know with the T cell vaccine. This is anecdotal, but some of the people who got our T cell vaccine, their family members got COVID. They didn't get it, obviously, the vaccine, and they didn't get COVID from a time while living with the family. The issue of clearing the virus in transmission was the key. So an antibody vaccine...

may reduce the viral load and therefore reduce death, which is a good thing that President Trump did. But the next generation of clearing the virus was what was needed, and both should have been developed simultaneously. It wasn't. And I'll share with you to this day. It's a mystery to me why. But

The opportunity to clear the virus was actually known, I think, by Collins and by Fauci that it did not clear the virus. The spike vaccines. The spike vaccine. The Pfizer-Madonna. The antibody vaccine does not, and to this day, does not clear the virus. That seems like a big deal. Well, just what we talked about. If you don't clear the virus...

and you have pieces of the virus in there, especially spike, whether from the infection or from the vaccine, and now you get another infection. Now the virus brings along this nucleic capsid. Now it reconjoins and replicates again in these what they call privileged sites. Two years later, what we're seeing, now we're back to persistence. That's now published just months ago.

And this is what I shared with NIH secretly four months ago. And persistence, asymptomatic persistence, but with inflammation and reduction of p53 and immunosuppression are all the hallmarks and recipes for cancer. And coming back to your first question is why are we seeing an increase in young people? I think all of the above, the toxins, the history,

the red dye, the PFAS, the COVID, all of the above. Does both COVID and the COVID vaccine lower over time the human immune system? The vaccine itself upregulates temporarily the antibodies. But if the vaccine, the spike protein breaks off and the RNA or DNA goes into the cells,

And whether from infection or the vaccine, that's where the controversy is, right? It could be both. And the vaccine doesn't clear the virus. That's the key. It doesn't clear the virus. And that's why we were told, of course, you take the virus and then you can't get COVID or transmit it. But neither one turned out to be true. Demonstrably untrue. Well, it's not only demonstrably untrue, it was knowingly untrue. That's what's bad about it.

Would seem like that's criminal, actually. I mean, if I tell you that, you know, this car gets 40 miles to the gallon and instead it blows up, that's a crime. You can't sell anything under false pretenses. That's a crime. I don't see how this is not a crime, but. Well, as you said over breakfast, it's not a conspiracy if it's true. Yeah.

I believe you're writing a book with that title. You probably have no idea where your meat comes from. You probably should know. The likelihood is that the meat you're eating passed through a massive industrial processing plant, probably owned by a foreign corporation. Foreign meat. Did you sign up for that? We don't think you did.

So you probably have no idea of knowing where the animal grew up, what that animal ate, or what chemicals big food pumped into the animal to increase profits. That's all kept secret, meaning you can never really know what you're putting in your mouth and in your body. That's disgusting if you think about it. And it's easy to fix. Merriweather Farms, a farm owned by friends of ours, is a great option. We use their meat. We eat their meat for every meal.

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Go to MerriweatherFarms.com slash Tucker. Use the code Tucker2025 for 10% off your first order. You can also save on a monthly subscription if you sign up today. That's MerriweatherFarms.com slash Tucker. We eat it and vouch for it. So, and you know that they knew? You've established for a fact that the developers of this and our public health authorities knew that the COVID vax would neither prevent infection nor transmission. Yes.

Yes. And worse, I think, you know, it's not well known that during the first President Trump election, he offered me a position.

And I turned it down because I said to him, I really could help him from outside in better than, and I had too much to do. I really was working on this, thank God, working on this potential cure for cancer as well as clearing the virus with COVID. This, what I call the missing link, which we can talk about, this activator of the unnatural killer cells, this bio-shield.

And we have the spy shield now. So it was the right decision for me not to go into the government during that time and to stay out. This was 16, 17? Correct. But worse, I've since discovered, not by my inquiry, but it's been revealed to me, emails about Francis Collins and some politicians work hard to prevent me from even joining, becoming head of NIH.

And I think that was the motivation all the way downstream that we asked, okay, so what happened to this vaccine? So I called the FDA and said, okay, I can't do a randomized placebo-controlled trial now because you've got Pfizer's, Moderna vaccines all over the place. So let me be the booster. And Peter Marks, to his credit, was the one who said, absolutely.

Peter Marks, to his credit, was the one who says, I'm worried about this COVID vaccine and this long COVID. I want to study the effects of this vaccine. Peter Marks would then say to me, Patrick, fine, go ahead. I injected the first three patients as a booster. I get the call from the FDA to say, you have to stop. I said, why? To this day, they never explained to me. It wasn't Peter. It was people around Peter said, you must stop. So we stopped.

And there was nothing more we could do anyway because we didn't have any of the resources, the money, the supplies to complete a phase three. So the government has a monopoly on some of the materials that you need to do this kind of testing in a bio lab. Is that correct? Correct. But now we're into Biden era. So now we're in the Biden era that said, I must stop. This is 2020 now. It was during the Biden era. And I think there was this...

Sadly, I'm not a conspiracy theorist, but now I've come to realize it truly was a deep state inside there that had a motivation beyond, it's sad to say, it's most devastating to say, beyond public health. And I just tweeted recently of how so few people could hurt so many. And that's why when I tweeted about finally we have the right person in HHS with Bobby Kennedy, we'll take this on.

And that we have doctors that will be like Marty Makaryov, I don't know, but I do know he's a surgeon who can understand and touch and feel what it means to be there on behalf of the patient. And my support for that, I think we have a chance now to completely turn this around in the next few years. I think this last election was in part about that. I think the...

national realization that COVID was there was something very dark there. It wasn't just a virus that happened upon us naturally that there was there was there was a lot of evil bound up in it. But just to back up a second, you said you have learned from watching COVID that a few people can hurt so many. Who are those people? I think the main culprit really sitting there was Collins. Francis Collins. Francis Collins. And he controlled, I mean,

I had shared with President Trump that Francis Collins should not be the NIH director. He offered me a job. Peter Thiel nominated me. And I've since found emails of Francis Collins sending an email to a politician that alarm bells, alarm bells, Peter Thiel has nominated Patrick Soon-Shiong. We have to find a way to stop it. Why? To this day, power, greed, um,

political need. He did the same thing with Craig Vento. I remember during Clinton's time with the Human Genome Project where Craig Vento invented the sequencing machine for tens of millions of dollars and he was spending billions of dollars doing nothing but wanted the credit. I think what happens to you when you get into Washington, the ego, greed, and power changes your mindset.

So I can't give motivation to that. All I can tell you is when I saw that email, I was devastated that somebody would actually go to that extent and then send that same email to the CEO of Bio, which is all big pharma. And that CEO of Bio said, let's go to Google search to find some dirt on him. Dirt on you? On me? To stop me from being nominated for

to be head of NIH or whatever. Let's Google him to stop him? Let's Google to find some dirt, some bad stuff, negative research, whatever they want to find. They probably couldn't find any dirt on me, but that was the interchange between them on email.

But the funny thing is you made a product, and by the way, a clarification of terms. My understanding was a vaccine was administered to a healthy person to prevent him from getting the disease. You're describing a product, the one that you made, that you can inject into an infected person and it cures the infection. That sounds more like a conventional medicine than a vaccine. It's a therapeutic. A therapeutic. Correct. So, you know, I use the word vaccine because that's what they understood. You know, it's...

It's dogma in terminology. Right. But you're giving this to people who have COVID, who have HIV. Well, I want to give it to people who don't have COVID so they can actually get COVID. I am now giving to patients with HIV. I'm giving to people with HPV. I'm giving it to people who are getting cancer and have cancer. And more importantly, there's one in 280 Americans. One in 280 Americans have this thing called Lynch syndrome.

What Lynch syndrome is, is a genetic predisposition of an 80% increase of colon cancer, ovarian cancer, breast cancer. It's a genetic predisposition where your cells don't repair themselves. I lost a friend to this, yes. We are in clinical trials for the BioShield for patients with Lynch syndrome. We now have 100 patients enrolled already, giving them this BioShield that'll prevent cancer. So it's one of the first trials

trials of prevention of cancer, rigor and treatment of cancer. Then this drug, this BioShield, I keep on not wanting to call it a vaccine, has just gotten approved in 2024 for bladder cancer. We now have people who failed everything, who would have their bladder removed. Think about that, your bladder removed, a 9% mortality just from the surgery alone, where we're giving them this BioShield. That's all they got is a subcutaneous injection.

or sorry, into the bladder. And they are now free of disease, still complete remission, nine years out, alive today. We can talk to them. Published. We have patients with metastatic pancreatic cancer. We just published, was free of disease five years out. Senator Reid, who came to see me after having failed all other treatment with this pancreatic cancer, spread to his liver,

came to see me and he said to me, "Patrick, I'm here, but I checked with Francis Collins who said don't go." I said, "Well, Senator Reid, your choice is oncoming." And we gave him the therapy and he's seeing 19 went down to normal. He lived for two years free of disease. He actually was very active. We had a patient with Merkel cell carcinoma, which is a terrible disease of failed everything. He came into our clinic, complete response.

Nine years out, he died of other causes. The reason I met Robert Jr., I've not known him for about four months, is I called Bobby Shriver. His cousin. His cousin. And the reason I knew Bobby Shriver, because Bobby called me seven years prior to that, saying, Patrick, I'm on the city council of Santa Monica, and the mayor of Santa Monica has this terrible tumor in his head and neck.

It's ulcerating under his chin, ulcerating through his jaw. And UCLA and Cedars-Sinai said, "He's got two weeks to live. He's got to go to hospice. Can you see him?" I said, "Absolutely, Bobby. I think he needs our natural killer cells. He needs our bio-shield." So I brought him to our clinic, which we have in Los Angeles in El Segundo. The nurses broke into tears. The nurses said, "Patrick, what are you doing?" UCLA said, "He has to go to hospice."

You should give this man. I said, no, you don't understand. We can dynamically activate this. And this is all as an outpatient. We got him into complete remission, complete remission. Is he still alive? So it healed and this melted the tumor. He went home because it was exposed. A little bleed happened in the blood vessel.

His family took him to St. John's and then they called me frantically and said, "The doctor says do not resuscitate." I said, "What?" "Call me, let me speak to that doctor." He said, "Well, it's bleeding and it's got this thing." I think he was in his late 70s, 80s. I said, "Please clip it. It's a complete response and we're going to do a flap to cover that." He did. We did the flap. He lived for two years, eat, was able to eat.

So when I called Bobby and I said, Bobby, you remember what we did? He said, absolutely, Patrick. A lot of people have asked me to introduce to Robert. You know, Robert and I don't speak very much. We've had an argument about his ideas. And I said, I understand. But I'm going to give you a number to Robert, to Bobby Kennedy. And he'll call you. Bobby called me in 10 minutes. And I said, Bobby, I'd like to introduce myself. He said, Patrick, can I meet with you?

I said, "Please." And he came to meet with me at my home. And we had this long conversation. And I realized, I've just watched your show with him. He is what he is, an authentic man with a sense of purpose, conviction, courage. He says what he really believes. Sometimes it may be wrong. Sometimes it may be right, but he says what he believes. And I really believed, "Oh my God, here's somebody

who would have the courage to take on the world and ask the questions. And I said, I'm going to support you. And that's what happened. That's how I got to know him. Amazing. He was dismissed by, no, not just dismissed, attacked and vilified by a lot of people in the medical establishment, I would say everybody. Why were you willing to listen to him? Because what he's saying is exactly what I was saying.

And I'm sort of attacked by the same people because of the dogma that's out there. So let me give you this example. I said, Bobby, and I shared with him the story about Hope Hicks. I said, you probably just walked out to the office and I walked in in 2016, in 2017. I said, listen, people think of you as saying you shouldn't have a polio vaccine, that you're an anti-vaccinator.

What you really are saying, you're worried about the excipients inside the vaccine. About the what? Okay, so that's the technical, the materials that go in with the vaccine. Yes, the mercury, etc. The mercury, etc. So I understand there's a polio vaccine, there's one, two, three, four polio vaccines that have now been manufactured. And now that all of a sudden there's a new polio vaccine that's manufactured in which we have cow's serum, calf serum inside that vaccine.

And I know, and you know, everybody knows, in the UK knows, you can get prion disease from this calf serum because you can't measure that. So that got approved in four days with just because of safety, the way dogma has happened, but there's other polio vaccines. So you can take the other polio vaccines, but don't take that one. Just like I was telling you about, maybe I was telling you about propofol story over breakfast, um,

And you should explain it that way, that you want it just to be examined. And he said, exactly. I said, okay. Not only did I get him, he is asking the right questions. And people are scared to ask these questions because he has perverse incentives. And that was what bothered me. But in science, shouldn't any question be allowed? Exactly. So when I tweeted, I said, he knows more science than most doctors.

He's much of a... It's a good thing you're rich, because you'd be out of a job tweeting stuff like that. But it is, right? And that's what's a blessing, I think. You know, I live the American dream, and that's why you said, okay, I made this money. The money is for the purpose of me being able to do this. And I was very...

concerned about being too loud about it because if this deep state would hold up the approval and they did by the way they put us into complete response letter i got a thousand requests for information the most my submission was close to 700 000 pages in order to get this thing through 700 000 it's like the u.s tax code this drug has been in trials now for eight years

2015. How long was the Pfizer mRNA COVID vaccine in trials? Months. A month? Not even. So that's why I'm trying to say, you know, when you- I know which one I'm taking. When you talk about the user fees, so we thought that the user fees was going to accelerate the approval where the FDA gets user fees from the pharma. It turns out that the big pharma user fees are so large, it pays for the salary for all these reviewers.

So now the biotech companies, the young biotech companies are throttled. So the big pharma that does just incremental little dots that just follow the revenue, there's checkpoints, multi-billion dollar Merck's, what, 20 billion, 30 billion on revenue. Bristol-Meyers follows it. AstraZeneca follows it. Roche follows it. There's no, they're all the same, but it's all about incremental sameness and follow the dollar.

But the innovation is really at this young biotech companies that are throttled. This is what needs to be changed by the FDA today. They need a complete revamp where people with skill sets and the skill sets of the modern science, not the old drugs, have to be in place.

To understand what's at stake here. Time for another true life Alp story. I got a call from a friend of mine yesterday, honestly, true story, who said his girlfriend had just broken up with him over Alp. He wouldn't stop. And I thought to myself, that's kind of sad. And he said, no, it's not sad. Imagine if I'd married her.

Now I know. I was saved. Then the next day, this same friend is driving at twice the speed limit through a major American city, pulled over by a cop in a speed trap. Cop takes his license registration, goes back to the patrol car, runs him, comes back, looks in the window, and sees a tin of Alp on the dashboard. Pauses. Stunned, says to my friend, you use Alp? Yeah, I do, says my friend. So do I, says the cop. We all do. He looks at my friend thoughtfully and goes, drive safely, sir, and hands back his license and registration. No ticket!

So in two days, he's saved from a tragic marriage to a girl who doesn't like Alp and a speeding ticket. All true. It's more than a nicotine. In an age of 350 million, people are guessing there are about 350 million Alp stories. Email us yours. We want to know and read it on the air. Email tellall at alppouch.com. Tellall at alppouch.com. Give us your Alp story.

Well, you have to take the conflicts out, too. I mean, if a reviewer is paid by the company whose drugs he's reviewing, that's like such an obvious conflict. In no other world would that be acceptable. Not only wouldn't be acceptable, if then that reviewer has also the role to block an innovator. It gets worse. Again, this just seems like crime to me. Yeah.

I mean, I don't know if this were going on in another country outside the United States. And I'm an American, so I give the United States every benefit of every doubt. It takes me forever to realize something's corrupt because it's America. It's not corrupt. But if this were happening, I would just name the country China, South Africa. You know, I'd be like, well, that's the most corrupt thing I've ever heard. Well, that's exactly the fear I have now. The Chinese don't have this restriction and their innovations now outstripping us. Think about that.

I've always said America's lead in healthcare and biomedical innovation is the best in the world. And if we could use biomedical innovation as foreign policy for Africa and to Asia and to India, to bring that to the rest of the world, that's how we lead. I now read the papers and the Chinese science is now outstripping us.

Look what happened to AstraZeneca just last week. They just spent $2 billion investing in China now. That's a tragedy for us. Not for manufacturing? For innovation. Oh, so that's not good. Not good. Because the idea was we offshore all the manufacturing, but the ideas generate here. So AstraZeneca is an English company. So what I'm saying is the fundamental problem, I think, lies at the FDA and even the NIH.

So the change that Bobby's bringing in with Jay now being a head of NIH and Marty being a head of FTA and Bobby himself having the courage to stand up to talk both against the food industrial complex and the pharma complex, take on the Merck's of the world and the Pfizer's of the world. I think we have maybe an opportunity, what I call a period of enlightenment, right?

And really, I'm all about enlightenment. And if you can look at the Sanjay piece, we are there now. So I want to actually send out... Can I stop and ask you a question, though? So your position is that cancer, but not just cancer, all kinds of illnesses are caused by weakened immune system and inflammation. It's all about the immune system. Your body functions, you live or you die by the immune system. The senescent cells aging...

is the immune system. The cells in your body that allow you to go to 100 years old, 120 years old, is based on the activity and the function of the immune system because the immune system what's regulating your healthy cells. - Can we just go through, I know this is not like patentable, this is not your business, but it's, what are some of the obvious things a person can do to strengthen his immune system?

So you ask, what activates the natural killer cell? So it's like, you know, when you look at the leaf and you talk about apoptosis and the leaf actually sits and goes brown and it changes, but then it goes back up. So all of human nature, all of nature is filled with this biology of this balance. So you have, you're a product of nature. I mean, literally you're a product of nature.

when you were tadpole and a fish as we came out. So this cell is evolved since the Cambrian age. Think about that. This cell, this natural killer cell in your body. I published my first article in Natural Killer Cell in 1990. This cell was only discovered in 1970s. Think about that. And we've ignored that cell. This is what I call the missing link. I'm going to announce that

at the American Urology Conference in Las Vegas in the end of this month. We have discovered, I've not discovered the missing link, we've discovered the awareness of this missing link and how to activate this missing link. So the idea is to activate the natural killer cell. It has 30,000 receptors on the cell. What this natural killer cell does, it replenishes itself with sleep. So sleep is important. It replenishes itself with light.

with sunlight and i believe there's a certain wavelength the red wavelength in the sunlight that it actually requires for it to be stimulated so this is why people get sicker in the winter exactly that's why seattle is the highest suicide rate think about that right so these things and if you look at the places like norway and sweden where there's a very little sun finland so

Nature's all about light, sunlight. So that's why I think this is... I like obvious observation. Nature's all about sunlight, of course. Plants don't grow without sunlight. And at the end of the day, we're either about neutrons, photons, and electrons. That's what we are. We as a human being is nothing else but a battery and an end gate. Right.

when you think about that, right? So we have a bunch of electrons and neutrons and charges that are floating through us that actually interact. And that's how I think of the human body. That's why I said I think of it as an astrophysicist. It's crazy, but that's how my mind works. So sleep, getting sunlight. And having food that doesn't even suppress. Your biome, the bacteria in your body,

sends out materials that actually will immunosuppress or activate. What do they mean by immunosuppressive foods? Unfortunately, I think most natural foods are fine. It's the toxins in the food, exactly what I said, the excipients. So when you talk about red dye, the processed foods, all this unnatural processed stuff ultimately cause inflammation. Now, when it gets back to this plasticity of inflammation,

inflammation causes immunosuppression because it causes all these cells to flip from the killer state to the suppressor state. That's why we said we have this dichotomy of is the cat alive, is the cat dead? You see it too in the elderly. It's why an infection or a diabetic foot infection can lead to a systemic infection and kill the person. Correct. Right.

That's why, you know, when this guy discovered that H. pylori causes gastric ulcer, they said, you're nuts. It's acid. I remember that so well. So well. So now when you think about that, so that's what I'm saying. But that's a consensus now, right? Acid does not cause ulcers.

Well, it's a cause and effect. So H. pylori causes the inflammation and then the acid that's naturally in your stomach activates it. But it's not the core cause. Correct. But it's all about dogma. That's why I call this a vaccine, but it's a bio shield. So you have to fight dogma. Part of the problem is you're fighting. So I will ask you, I wanted to ask us to do an experiment. I'm all for it.

Where we pick up the phone, call any random oncologist, not to shame them, primary care physician, pick up the phone and said, you do a CBC, correct? Yes. Can you define what a CBC is? A complete blood count. Just you take a blood and you look for... Yeah, the blood screen that everyone has. Blood screen. Yeah. For whether you're anemic or not anemic. Yeah, yeah. People understand that, right? Red blood cells. And you see these red blood cells. And you give chemotherapy and radiation and you ask, what do you look for?

Well, we look to see if you're anemic, so we can give you this drug that Amgen makes called Epigen. We look to see whether your platelets have gone down, so we can give you a platelet transfusion. We look to see whether your neutrophils have gone down so that you don't get an infection called neutropenic fever, so we give you this drug, Neupogen. Well, the problem is, does red blood cells cure cancer? No. Does platelets cure cancer? No. Does neutrophils kill cancer? No. What kills cancer?

They're natural killer cells and T-cells. So in that CBC, there's a thing called the lymphocytes, correct? Do you look at that? No. The only cell that is important that kills cancer, 99.9% of oncologists will say, we don't pay any attention to that.

That is surprising. That does he mask backwards? Why? Why? If you're not, you know, attack oncologists, but if you're fighting cancer, why do you ignore the one cell that fights cancer? That's an experiment I wanted to do. That's a little mysterious. Am I missing something? That's exactly. That's the missing link. The final frontier.

The E equals MC squared, the God's equation. That is the key element in your body that we've been missing for 50 years, for 50 years. But it's even worse than that. Those missing link, we've actually destroyed with chemotherapy. We've destroyed with radiotherapy and we've destroyed with checkpoint inhibitors. We've destroyed with steroids. Guess what we give to patients? Chemotherapy, radiotherapy, steroids and checkpoints.

Am I missing something? I don't know anything about this. You know, I was a Russian studies major, but I have no, just because I'm 55, I know a lot of cancer patients. I have always been skeptical that the protocol is effective based on. So what I have noticed is those therapies seem to beat back the cancer in short term.

But then so often you watch it come roaring back. You know, I'm in remission and then wham, you just get hit by a tidal wave of cancer and eliminated. So if you see my writings, I have written so many times, you win the battle and you lose the war. So this is not, I'm not imagining this phenomenon. You're not imagining it. You win the battle and you lose the war. The reason you win the battle is because you see this little blip of a response with chemotherapy.

And then the moment you've stopped or not even, you've actually now killed the cells that were there to protect you. You've upregulated the suppressor cells and you get metastasis and you say, oops, sorry, you now have to go to hospice. Think about that. That's what we've been doing for 50 years.

That's a dogma that I'm fighting. So what, okay, so let's just say I leave here and I'm diagnosed with, you know, a serious life-threatening form of cancer. What would you recommend I do next? So this is where you play chess and don't play checkers. This is where you play go, where you say, okay, what is the cancer doing first? Well, guess what? The cancer is not stupid. So he's figured out a way to hide from these killer cells.

So the first thing you have to do is you have to expose the receptors on the cancers of the killer cells could recognize that. So even in the presence of chemotherapy, you don't use chemotherapy to kill the tumor. You use a tiny dose of chemotherapy just to stress the patient, the cancer. And the cancer says, oh my God, something's coming at me and it starts exposing itself. So you go from hide to expose.

So you use the chemotherapy at a low dose called low metronomic dose to use it as what I call an immunomodulator. Importantly, I was asking, you're describing cancer as almost like an autonomous entity that has a goal, a will to destroy the human body. It does. But that's, I mean, you're describing like a... It's a machine.

But with intent and kind of clever behavior, it hides like what you're describing, like some foreign entity in the body that's trying to kill the body. It is. It's like a virus.

But how can a tumor know to hide? Because it has genomic sequencing in there that actually blocks the expression. Which sounds diabolical. It is diabolical. That's why I spent 50 years trying to understand. It's not a human brain. It's biology and how biology can mutate. And actually, your body is a beautiful thing. It's an exquisite thing.

So it has to have this thing called epigenetics. So it has the genomic sequencing that says, I'm not going to express this. So we can now stress that and block the block, and it now expresses something on its surface that our T cells can recognize. So that's the first step. Smoke it out. Smoke it out. But your body has mechanisms to smoke it out.

It gets even more complicated. Your body has a thing where you can induce what you call damps, which is damage associated molecular patterns, but forget that. It's a way of actually smoking it out. So now your T cells can recognize it. Okay, so now you've done step one. That's just step one.

That's one molecule. So this is why I think the FDA needs to understand we're fighting a war where you need battlefield awareness all simultaneously, where you have to orchestrate your Marines, your Army, your Navy, your Air Force, all in the right place so that you can use the tumor in your body to act as a weapon, as the vaccine.

Because a tumor has molecules that is far into the rest of your body. And if you educate your T-cells to recognize those molecules that is far into the rest of your body, that T-cell can remember. Now you have a memory T-cell. So for the first time in 2024, in our package insert, we have a molecule called the BioShield now. I'll call it the BioShield. They can activate the natural killer cell, activate the killer T-cell, and drive memory T-cells.

We now have bladder cancer patients who would have lost their bladder in complete remission for nine years and still alive. And so the protocol is you administer low-dose chemo to identify where the tumor is. You smoke it out. You smoke it out. But at the same time, you need to have the natural killer cells and T-cells ready. So you give them the bio-shield that upregulates and stimulates your natural killer cells and T-cells. What about radiation? Does that play a role?

That'll kill your natural killer cells and T cells. So now, unless, and this comes out unless, today the radiation is what they call 70 gigabits, huge doses. Unless you give a tiny little dose just to the tumor, no else, to smoke it out. So you use radiation in a very different way called SBRT.

A low dose. To identify rather than destroy. To expose rather than... Expose. So the algorithm is expose, from hide to expose. The next algorithm is activate and proliferate your NK cells. And that's with the subcutaneous injection. The next algorithm is to educate your T cells with a vaccine that you anticipate that it's going to be exposed. So you now have educated T cells ready...

So you've got educated T cells, you've got NK cells. And the next thing is to activate your macrophages so they become killer macrophages. And the next step is to suppress the suppressors. You do that all simultaneously.

How much human suffering is involved in this? There's a lot in a conventional course of cancer therapy. All as an outpatient. We've done hundreds of patients now. So you're not, so someone taking this course is not going to, is he going to lose his hair, throw up? All as an outpatient. What's even more exciting. Because that matters for cancer patients. I mean, it's hard to be a cancer patient. It's horrible. Yeah.

But we're now seeing patients now in complete remission. More importantly, I want to treat patients before they need surgery so they can use the tumor itself in the body as the vaccine to educate the body and the T-cells all about that tumor. What's even more exciting now, we can take blood from you, one pint, and extract the natural killer cell in the T-cell and grow billions and store it in cryopreservation just like you do, I don't know,

from cord blood. We now have the ability to grow these natural killer cells and give it to anybody. So I always said for the first time, we could become the American Red Cross of cancer, our country, and use these innovations as foreign policy. So could, looking back, do you think it was unwise to require the population to get the Pfizer and Moderna vax? It depends on the time.

I think it's unwise to keep on giving this nonsense. I shouldn't say that. I should be careful when I call it nonsense. The idea of giving an antibody vaccine and then create another antibody vaccine, another antibody vaccine that chases your tail. I don't know what that's doing, those spike proteins. It's not ridding your body of COVID, though. It's not. Is it creating even more variants in your body? I don't know. But is that possible?

I see the idea, and I'm such a scientist, I need to actually go and actually pull out these variants and sequencing them. That's what we do. Is it theoretically possible? It's theoretically possible. Could there be any change to a person's DNA from taking this? Well, that's what this does.

It's what the mRNA vaccines do. Correct. It converts into DNA and it converts into replicating and that's what it does. And it replicates an RNA virus. It becomes the virus. Well, as someone who's clearly, you've made reference to it a couple of times, interested in evolution, to change the DNA of a species is to change the species over time. No, I don't think it integrates. My concern is that

This virus is all about itself. Very selfish virus. Selfish virus. In fact, the fact that it's now less deadly is in the virus's interest. The virus doesn't want to kill you because you are the incubator. Think about that. The virus wants you alive. You're speaking in a way that suggests intent and forethought.

It's biology. It's evolution. Everything is evolution. It was the intent to go from a tadpole to a human being. I don't know, but to consider the possibility you have something, or the certainty that you have something within your body that is acting against your body's interest on purpose. Yeah, because it needs you to be the incubator. So, you know, the veracity, when it was so man-made,

So, you know, viral evolution, when it would be called affinity maturation, it matures itself so that it can be more infective. That's one thing it tries to do as a virus. I mean, these viruses are living organisms. And when I say living, they don't have brains or anything like that, but they have machinery.

that are very sophisticated, they have what you call promoters and etc. Why would you make something like that on purpose? Well, there are viruses in nature, which theoretically will go through what you call maturation, that normally do not infect you. They're not species-specific. Exactly. But why would you then change that?

And that's what this, you know, gain-of-function strategy was so dangerous. That's why it was prohibited. It's so self-evidently evil to even play with something like that with the potential consequences which we're now seeing.

13-year-olds getting pancreatic cancer. Like, how could anyone do that? And why aren't those people in prison? Well, it was banned, right? It was banned in the United States. Yeah. Hence the Wuhan lab partnership. Well, so we subverted it. Now you talk about, you know, why so few people could harm so many. How they got around that is for the investigators to find out. But I mean, you're someone who's created cancer drugs, spent a lot of his life in a lab, right?

That's why you're a billionaire. So you know a lot about this topic, obviously. And it's clear to you that that's just too dangerous to be doing that, right? Yes. To take animal viruses and make them... You can't control it. Because you've done affinity maturation that would have taken tens of maybe millions of years.

In that fusion protein, they created this fusion protein and then they created this vaccine. I think Bonnie Graham was the part with Collins and everything else that was so proud to create this RBD and make it stable. Think about it. The spearhead, the tip of the spear that goes into your cell, we're going to make it stable. That's how this vaccine was produced. This was the mRNA vaccine was produced. So you've taken a virus,

that has now gone from bats to man only because i think the skin function work you then created a vaccine by taking the spearhead of this virus that is now being created to get into you and make the spearhead even more stable and put it on the vaccine and says here we go this seems super crazy so just from the perspective of a of a layman again if i've never had covid

and I get the MRA, you know, if I get the Pfizer vaccine, mRNA vaccine, if I got it three years ago, can you detect COVID in my body now? Possibly. See, that's like, that's just crazy. Look, I know of a, I won't name her, but she was a very senior person at the FDA and she just got the vaccine. That's it. And within weeks, she got brain fog, loss of memory. So there's clear evidence that

Sometimes the vaccine is the cause, and sometimes the virus is the cause. So that's what I'm saying. It's not mutually exclusive. I understand. But it's all about the spike.

But the idea that you would be introducing the COVID virus into a body that was not infected by the COVID virus is like... You went after the wrong protein, basically. I've been begging them to go after the nucleocapsid protein because the nucleocapsid protein, which is in the core of the virus, is not the tip of the spear. And if you have a T cell, it lasts for 17 years. We know that from previous COVID infections. Yes.

But they refuse to do it. This seems like a human tragedy at like an unimaginable scale. Completely. It devastates me. Well, that's incredibly bracing. And I think you're one of the very few people I've ever met who has the absolute authority to speak on this. And yet you've not been encouraged to speak about it, it sounds like. I've not been what? Encouraged to speak about it. Yeah, because I'm not a political person.

And I have this bigger picture that we have to find a solution, not just for COVID, but for cancer. And the irony is this bio-shield works for both. Because they're connected, it sounds like. Completely connected. And the only chance we have now, because I had no idea that the political deep state was so powerful and so vicious and so egotistical that they would stop working.

good science. So now I'm out there speaking because the drug got approved, but that's not enough just for bladder cancer. It has the same treatment effect for pancreatic cancer, lung cancer, triple negative breast cancer. It is the only molecule for 50 years that upregulates these killer cells, period, the missing link. Well, you never got COVID. So that's, you really never got COVID? Never got COVID. How many people do you know who didn't get COVID?

The president of the United States got COVID like four times. So if you did get COVID, there's three antigens in the virus. There's a spike, there's a nucleic acid, and there's a thing called the M protein, M. And if you have, when you do your blood test, you can see if you have the M protein. If you have the M protein in your antibody or T cell or antibody to the M protein, that means it came from the virus.

If you have no M protein, it came from somewhere else. It could come from the vaccine. I have no M protein and I have T cells to N and I have T cells to S. So you could basically lick a park bench and not get sick. No, it doesn't. Exactly. So now you need to differentiate and not conflate the ability of the virus to infect. It could still infect me, but my body has the protection, the bio shield to clear it.

Immediately. Within seven days. Clear it. Is this a lifelong protection? Well, based on the science of what they call MERS-1, where it was 17 years is protection. That was the original coronavirus outbreak. Correct. 17 years as nuclear T-cells is out there. I'll take that. I'll take 17 years. Exactly. And you can get a booster.

Now, what we're working on is a universal COVID virus vaccine for all coronaviruses because it's in. So what we did, oh, that's a good segue to that. So during my genomic sequencing, I was building the whole machine learning supercomputing network and I ran the National Lambda Rail for the God's particle and I built supercomputers and AI way before AI was. And I presented the AI model to President Obama, believe it or not, in the one pager for healthcare.

So our supercomputer, we combined ourselves with Microsoft so that we had the largest GPU cloud during COVID. And we were able then to actually look at the infectivity of every species, every variant of COVID with every human type. There's a thing called HLA. So that we could actually look at how the virus would change and avoid the T-cells.

The only thing that it could never do was change the nuclear capsid and never could void the T cells. We made that software public at ISTL public and published it so that anybody could test based on your HLA, your HLA and my HLA type would be slightly different. There's hundreds and thousands of HLA types and know whether this sequence, if you had that sequence in your body would be protective.

Through that, we are developing what we call a universal COVID vaccine, BioShield T-cell vaccine, and we have it. But how do you do it? So one of my thoughts was just to give it away to somebody. I actually offered to give it away to Regeneron and to Amgen way back, but they were too busy. Everybody was too busy during the COVID time.

So, one of the ideas now was for me to actually go to the Serum Institute in India and say, "Here, please go build this and make this available to the world." So, you know, just so much we could do as an organization. We're a tiny little biotech company relative to the Merck and the Pfizer's. But that's what my goal is. My personal goal is when you say I'm still doing it, I don't have a vineyard.

the resources that was given to me, it was like God's gift, I believe, that allowed me to do this. So, you know, we have hundreds of employees, 40 acres of land in Los Angeles. The other tragedy was

I took over this facility in Dunkirk that New York State had put $200 million in, completely empty, brand new, amazing facility for national preparedness. And I called Chuck Schumer to help me make that available for the country. Nothing. It's still sitting there, available for the country as a national preparedness manufacturing site in Dunkirk, New York, for which we put $50 million in,

but there's no employees in there right now. Nothing. That's crazy. It is really ridiculous, right? Without leadership, without skill sets in leadership and without informed leadership, how we as a country could go down the wrong path. And I'm so hopeful that these next four years could change that. So this has been an amazing story. You're obviously very famous in the medical research world.

and controversial, but I'm sold on what you said. So everything that you've done is, you know, you'll have a great obit because of it. Then you decided to buy the LA Times in 2018-ish. And, you know, owning the main newspaper in the country's second biggest town makes you obviously a media mogul, but it makes you a political figure as well. And LA is so complicated. Like, why would you do that? You don't need that. Why would you do that?

Well, I think it really helps to know how I grew up, right? So I grew up in South Africa as apartheid. I, because South Africa didn't have, I did not see a TV until the age of 21, believe it or not. No TV? No TV. South Africa didn't have TV. So not that I didn't watch TV. Period. So it was just books and newspapers. That was the only way I got educated, books and newspapers.

To the extent that I would go every day as a newspaper boy to the printing press in Port Elizabeth, sit at the printing press, get the first one off the press, read it, and then run with about two, three hundred papers throughout the city. That would be what I did and grew up. So I fell in love with the printing press, the clicky-clack and the oil and the smell. Yeah.

And when the opportunity came, remember, as I said, I had this amazing gift of the resources of selling these two companies that I never anticipated in life. With Michael Farah saying he took over this company called and named it Tronc.

And he was going to shut down the Washington Bureau and move all the... So he owned the LA Times? He owned the Tribune, actually, the whole thing. Yeah, at that point. Yeah. Chicago Tribune, the Tribune company. The whole Tribune company, which included LA Times and San Diego Tribune. And he knew how desperately I wanted the LA Times because I had helped him invest...

to buy the rest of the Tribune. So I was a minority shoulder then. And he came to me and said, hey, Patrick, you want it? Here's the price. You've got 48 hours to decide. And it's $500 million. No due diligence. No due diligence? That's what I said. Who would take that deal? Only crazy people. Yes. It's half a billion dollars and you can't see the books. Yeah. Nor can you go visit the newsroom because...

On Monday, we're going to actually shut all that and move them all out. And I don't want you to talk to these people. And you have until Monday to decide. And I was running a conference in LA with all my scientists and the National Cancer Institute and all the scientists were there at this hotel. And I said, Oh my God. So I went upstairs and we got a private room and I brought all the people into the room. And

I said, I want to do it. And I called my wife. I said, we want to do this. I think this is an opportunity for us to have a voice for the people, especially if they're going to shut down Washington and shut down LA. We'll never have a paper here. This is one of the most important things. So by Monday, I signed it. And that was it. And then you paid him $500 million? $500 million. How grateful was he?

Sorry. I'm sorry to laugh. If you hadn't made so much money, I wouldn't be laughing because it would be mean. But that's incredible. So Phil Anschutz saw me. I've got some stuff I'd like to sell you. So Phil Anschutz saw me at the next Laker game. He says, you know, Patrick, I always thought you were such a smart guy until yesterday. Yeah.

But, you know, I have no regrets. I think what I did then was said, okay, I'm going to take everything I know in healthcare, that rocket ship that I showed you, and...

And then create, because during that time, Bezos would have this arc, he'd had the software and he had the Washington Post. And his team came to see me and said, listen, we've got this arc software that we want you to run. I said, no, I don't like this old software. I'm going to go build a completely new software content management system that could take podcasts, video, live streaming, because I want this newspaper to be an educational moment for people.

And at the end of the day, a newspaper is not just a newspaper, it's a basis of engagement. I want to engage users as a tool to engage with people because that's how I grew up. So we took the risk and we built this content management system, took us five years and we launched it, which could talk to the printing press and it could talk to magazines, it could talk to podcasts, it could talk to video, talk to live streaming. And now it's just gone live. It's called Anytime Studio and Anytime Live.

And the next thing we're going to do is called LA Times Next. And the LA Times Next and a gentleman called Eric Beach and I are forming so that we could create a platform that would allow voices to be heard and free speech to be heard unencumbered by either opinion or news. So now we have three platforms. We have a platform of news, which supposedly is facts,

We have a platform of opinion, which I've now changed to voices, meaning everybody should have a voice, whether you're right voice, left voice, central voice, do you like Coca-Cola, Pepsi-Cola, whatever voice. And then a complete platform that allows free speech and video podcast. And now I have that platform and we've built the infrastructure to accommodate that platform.

And I'm excited by early times next because we're going to have a studio in DC, we have a studio in LA, we may have a studio in Nashville. And shows like this are important because I believe long forms like this is how you communicate for people who are interested. And it could be fun, it should be engaging, it should be interesting. And that's why I bought the paper.

Well, those are great reasons as far as I'm concerned. But they come with them. The purchase comes with it. A lot of people who work at the paper, I've worked in newsrooms my whole life, and I know that they hate change. They hate the owner no matter what. Everybody hates the owner just on principle. There are a ton of unhappy people in journalism. I would say the overwhelming majority, for whatever reason, we could speculate. And they're very hard to manage.

And they're roughly about 100 or maybe even more percent left wing everywhere, including at supposedly conservative places. They're all lefties. So how do you deal with that? By being honest and transparent head on. And I openly shared with them, I said, listen, we cannot be an echo chamber. I won't tolerate it.

It's okay if you're left-wing, but you need right-wing. So I offered Scott Jennings an opportunity to write on the paper. And I said, we need all voices. And so I said, listen...

I don't know who made these rules because I came into this newspaper. I don't know the difference between a columnist and op-ed or editorial page and news. And now when you're merging all of these, can you imagine the layperson not really understanding the difference? That's right. And I want you to say news is news and you're the newsroom, fine. Theoretically, everything's edited. You've fact-checked it. But when it comes to an opinion...

I want to change that to call Be Voices. And I want all voices to be heard, all American voices to be heard. And, you know, the Kamala Harris endorsement, I took a lot of heat because the editorial board resigned by my taking a stand that we cannot be an echo chamber of opinions not based on facts. So just for those who didn't follow it, and it was quite a story for a couple of days there, it was during the campaign campaign.

The editorial board, correct me if I'm wrong, wanted to endorse Kamala Harris. And you said no. What did they say to you? And what did you say back to them? Well, I can't put in...

Oh, come on. You've gone pretty far already. I can just say that we're not happy. But what was their pitch? So the pitch was, we as a board have met and we have this prepackage. We know this is outrageous, blah, blah, blah. This prepackage? What does that mean? We had a prepackage endorsement.

What do you mean pre-packaged? They'd already written it? They'd already written it. After talking to Kamala Harris? Never having met her. They never met Kamala Harris? Never met her. Isn't the editorial board supposed to interview the candidates? By the way, the editorial board never met even. I'm on the editorial board. So I said, I'm on the... Kamala Harris was in LA all the time. Correct. Correct.

In your neighborhood, actually. Correct. Raising money. Raising money, keeping the traffic in trouble, raising money. And I'd never met her, and nor did the board ever met her. And I said, this is unacceptable. And they know, as you could see, because it's a left-leaning, they wrote terrible stories about President Trump. Had they met him? Not met him either. So my statement to them was, listen,

You may have an opinion, but all of us should have an opinion based on facts. I mean, one of the statements that came, and I won't name him, came from a person that said, within this concept, that

Vice President Kamala Harris was the most consequential vice president in the history of the United States. So I said... No, I shouldn't lie. I don't mean to be dismissive. On what basis did the person say that? Having never met her, so now exactly, you just hit it on the head. And I said, on what basis do we say that? What are the facts? Can we actually show the record of that?

So I said, you know, it boiled down to look we're not going to do that. We're just not going to do it What did the person say when you asked? No, why are you saying she's most consequential vice president states like what are the facts that underlie that judgment? I obviously had disagreed with that person and There are no basis for that other than you know, as you said a personal echo chamber, you know, you know and look I think I

I don't know what they're trying to protect. They're trying to protect, if I'm trying to find, I'm trying to find the kernel of basis, the audience, because the audience is left, so they need to be left. I don't think that's right. I think, meaning our audience, we lost a lot of viewers, right? I mean, thousands of people unsubscribed.

But I don't think it's right that we should be this canceling society. I think we should be a society that can have a civil discourse like we're having now and disagree. It's okay.

and understand each other's point of view. That's what I think is the value of the paper when you talk about voices. So that's what I'm instigating now. And so I've taken the opportunity... Let's go back to the Kamla thing really quick. So they were shocked that you canceled that. They were worse than shocked. They resigned. They resigned. So I had three... Right now, 90% of my editorial board has resigned. Yeah.

So where did they go? Because there are no editorial writing jobs left. I have no idea. So, look, I think it's important. Look, the fact that I had the courage to resign, some of them. No, Kevin Murata, I fired. I fired Kevin before they resigned. Why did you fire him? One, because of leadership. Two, because of... I got to be careful. I don't want to disparage him. I fired him because I didn't believe...

he was the right person or of creating, taking the paper where it needs to be. He was formerly at the Washington Post. Washington Post. Yeah. I remember that well. And, um, and then after that episode, the editorial board, the rest of them resigned and now we're rebuilding. Look, we have to, we have to, and what's exciting to me is I'm rebuilding with young people. Um,

And what's exciting to me is this opportunity with LA Times Next and LA Times Studio and then the newsroom. Terry Tang is doing a fantastic job. She's working hard to take on the people and the productivity there.

Well, increasing productivity. Oh, you're employing journalists? Okay, so that's the world I understand. Yes, there are some productivity issues there. Yeah, yeah, yeah. When you write one slug a month, I think that's not going to be good. Been there. Been there. So it's been an experience. But look, we're there in for the long haul, I think. And...

Look, it's just not us, by the way. We've got to save these local newspapers. I agree. Right? We've got to save the ability to have local discos. Now with the LA Fires, it's even more important, right? Look, I called out Karen Bass and Gavin Newsom. And these politicians... You know them both. I know them both. I text with them both. And I complain to them both. And what I tell the public is what I tell them. So I don't say anything behind their back. I personally say, I said, you're not doing the right thing.

Whether it be the homelessness, the homelessness, they did a terrible job. Yes. Completely wasteful job. So these are the kinds of things that I think it gave us the opportunity to have a say in our community, you know, and that's what I'll continue to do. Now we'll position ourselves in D.C. and I think the next four years will be really, I hope, monumental.

Doctor, thank you for spending all this time. All right. No, it's been fun and a pleasure. Thank you. Thank you. We want to thank you for watching us on Spotify, a company that we use every day. We know the people who run it, good people. While you're here, do us a favor. Hit follow and tap the bell so you never miss an episode. We have real conversations, news, things that actually matter. Telling the truth always. You will not miss it if you follow us on Spotify and hit the bell. We appreciate it. Thanks for watching.