“I’ll Win With or Without You,” Teamsters Union President Reveals Kamala Harris’s Famous Last Words
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I wondered, I sat and watched you in the stands at the RNC, and I don't think I've ever seen anybody give a speech at a convention, a very well-received speech, without endorsing the candidate. How did you convince Trump to do that? Well, I think Trump and I have a good relationship. We've got a mutual respect for each other. Yeah, absolutely.

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And, you know, I think he knew the struggles that we had with our membership. We've got 1.3 million members. So, you know, that membership is made up of Republican, Democrats and independents.

And, you know, we knew all along where our membership was trending and we had to do a lot of polling and everything else. And we had a lot of communication during the campaign leading up to the RNC. So I think he knew the spot that we were in if we just came out and did a straight endorsement. But we really couldn't do that because our our.

The process, we interviewed every single candidate that from, you know, the people that entered the race early to the last two standing, which was Trump and Harris. And we interviewed them in a roundtable with rank and file members in our general executive board. And we provided each candidate with 16 of the same questions.

And, you know, Trump was, you know, like all of them, they weren't strong on some of our issues. And no fault of their own, because I don't think deep down they understood what our actual issues are. But at the end of the day, I think he knew that by us representing, speaking at the RNC, representing the Teamsters Union, that he was actually showing America, the American workers, that, you know, he was for Trump.

He was for working people. And my message was clear. You were there. I saw you standing up with him. And my message didn't endorse the Republicans, Democrats, or independents. It was clearly about what the American worker needs from the administration. I just couldn't believe they let you do that. Yeah, you know what's funny? I mean, it's a political convention. The whole point is to nominate this guy. Right. But, you know, I got to tell you this. It's funny. So leading up to the RNC...

we're writing our speech and we're going through it and we're editing it internally, all of us, great team. And we submit it to the RNC, the folks. I think we submitted probably a week prior and we submit the speech and some of the underlings in the RNC didn't like what we had to say. I bet. And so they wanted to change it and modify it and everything else. And we took a position. I took a position. Well, I'm not going then.

And so we reached out to Susie Wiles and told her, look, we're not, we are not modifying this speech. And she's like, I don't think you should. She says, why don't you call DJT and tell him? So I called him on a cell phone and I said, listen, I said, they want us to modify this speech.

he goes i haven't seen it he goes i don't give a what you say do whatever you want sean oh come on so 100 true oh i believe so when we went there i mean obviously yeah yeah so he's like actually said say whatever you want to say that's exactly what he said

And when we went there, it was great. It was a home run. And I think part of the thought process from the Republican side was, look, if we get the general president of the biggest, strongest union in the country, that's going to signal to every working person how committed the Republican Party is, the opportunity the Republican Party has to prove that they want to represent American workers. Listen to us. It's just...

I mean, that is a window into what Trump is actually like. That's why I'm laughing because it's just so perfect. And I, you know, whatever you think of that, I happen to love it, but that is never done in politics. You never get a candidate to say whatever you want. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was hilarious. But conversely, you know, we asked to go to the DNC at the same time. And you know, and we know that if we ever submitted that speech to the DNC,

They would have shit a brick. They would have been horrified because the people that we were talking about, the corporate elitists and everybody else, those are the people that the Democrats have fallen in love with. Those are the people I serve instead of the middle class the way it used to be 50 years ago. So we know that we would have got tremendous pushback. Did you go? I'm sorry, I don't even know. Did you go to the Democratic? No, we didn't get invited.

That is great. That's even a bigger story than speaking at the RNC, is not getting invited to the DNC. Yeah, well, that was, you know, that was the vindictive side of the Democratic Party. And, you know, I'm a Democrat. But, you know, I'm going to call balls to the strikes. You know, they haven't done shit for us. And when we didn't get invited, it's a funny story because...

Two weeks prior to us speaking at the RNC, we didn't hide from the fact that we were going to speak there. Listen, I tell everybody all the time, if I get a venue to highlight how valuable our organization is, the Teamsters Union, to the entire country, I will take any and all venues to do that. Good. So two weeks prior to that, Chuck Schumer asked me to meet with him. And I meet with him, and he wants $550,000 for the Super PAC for the Senate races. No problem. No problem.

And I said, "Look, I'm speaking at the RNC." He's like, "Oh, great job. You know, that's good. You should represent your members." Day after I give that speech at the RNC, he gets on Twitter and starts talking shit about my speech. "Remember who fixed your pensions." And I'm like, "This guy's a fucking joke. Like, why would you do this? Two weeks prior, you're telling me when you're taking a $550,000 Super PAC check,

You know, that's great. It's great for your members. You know, that's good. And then you want to get on Twitter like a tough guy and, you know, throw shit out there. Why didn't they just call you? Well, because they don't like confrontation. They don't want to hear the truth. When he said, you know, we fixed your pensions, that gave me an opportunity to say, you're the same guy in the same party that 40 years ago embraced, endorsed, and signed off on deregulation in the trucking industry, which we lost 400,000 jobs in.

In 1980, Ted Kennedy put the bill forward. Joe Biden signed off on it as a senator or as a representative. No, senator. Yeah, senator, right? So they said, we fixed your pension. I said, yeah, you did fix a pension. And I use this scenario all the time. I'm like, I played street hockey in my neighborhood. 1980, I broke my mother's window.

For 40 years, she's asked me to fix her window. And I finally fix it 40 years later. Should I look for accolades for a problem that I helped create? Yeah. And so we went back and forth. It even got to a point, he showed up in our building.

prior to the election. And we had a bipartisan meeting in the hallway of the IBT. And it was attended by a lot of Republican senators, a lot of Republican congressmen. Because look, our goal is to work across the aisle to solve problems. He walks in with his, you know, the Capitol police who do a great job, walks in late and he sticks his crooked finger in my face and he says, I fixed your pensions.

I said, you should have, you broke them. And we get into it pretty hard. And, you know, he starts like yelling at me. I go, buddy, listen, there's only one guy that can yell at me. We buried him 12 years ago. I go, and I go, you want to get into this right here, right now? We'll get into it. You're talking about your dad. Yeah, I'm talking about my dad, right? And so Schumer's like, we fixed your pension. I'm like, yeah, I'm going to name the things you haven't done for us. When our members were on strike at the rail, you...

You didn't support us. You didn't put a letter of support in there. When we were fighting with UPS in the middle of the street, you wouldn't sign off on a support letter. When we took on Amazon, which we're taking on now, you wouldn't support our efforts on Amazon. I said, you want me to keep going? Because you can tell me what you've done, the one thing you've done for me and my union and my members, but I'm going to tell you all the things you haven't done for us. And then he's like, well, I really want this relationship. I'm like, we're done. We're done.

And that was it. He left. And then I'm working out at the building on election day. This is great. And look, I'm not a person that says, I told you so, or whatever the case is. He called, my phone rings. There's only two people that call me from a private line. Sometimes it's a commander in chief and someone else. So phone rings and I answer it. And it's Chuck Schumer and like dejected tone. It was, you know, hi, Sean. I'm like, hey, how you doing?

He goes, good, Chuck Schumer. I'm like, okay, what do you want? He's like, I just want to thank you for supporting, you know, the Super PAC. I go, that was like four months ago. And he says, well, yeah, I just want to thank you. And I'm like, okay, great. It was like a dejected tone. And I was like, I got off that, I got off the stand master and I'm like, this is crazy. But it is what it is. Why was he doing that? I wonder. I have no idea. No idea.

Do you think he knew they were going to get creamed? Oh, I think he knew they were getting crushed that day. Yeah. And, you know, I don't know how people, you know, so astute, been around so long in politics, couldn't see that coming. Was it obvious to you? Oh, it was very obvious to us, yes. Just by the polling we were doing. And look, the one thing that we do, and this is a gauge that I pride our leadership on.

We don't sit in our office and research all these polls, research all these opinions. The opinions that matter to me are the 1.3 million members that we represent. My general secretary and treasurer and myself are out every single day in workplaces talking to members, asking them their opinions, find out exactly what their struggles are in the workplace. And then you get into always into politics, this presidential election,

And just the one-on-one conversations. We're in three different states, three times a week, and multiple industries that we represent. And when you're talking to people, we weren't just talking to people in blue states, we were talking to people in red states all over the country. And we knew just from the rhetoric out there from our members that they weren't voting Democrat. And that's when we started designing this.

you know, real extensive program and that included the rank and file members. So we knew that was coming. For people who don't know, just give us an overview of the Teamsters 1.3 million members. What do they do? So we represent 1.3 million members. The easiest way to understand it is we represent airline pilots to zookeepers and everybody in between.

We represent UPS as our largest employer. We have 340,000 members at UPS. We represent the grocery industry, warehousing. We represent airline pilots. We represent airline mechanics. We represent motion picture. We represent trade shows. We represent public sector. We represent healthcare. So we represent everybody from A to Z.

So the name comes from guys who drove teams of horses. Yeah, teams of horses. We were predominantly a truck driving union. Yes. Started out with horse and buggy and then through evolution and technology, it was truck drivers. Deregulation, you know, crushed the trucking industry in the 80s. We've been able to rebuild and organize over the last two and a half years. But because of deregulation, we lost 400,000 teams to jobs. Wow. Back in the 80s, yes.

But we're a real progressive union. We don't have all our eggs in one basket right now. We're trying to organize Amazon, which has about 400,000 employees, both direct and this DSP model that they masquerade as not being direct employees. It's a joint employer model.

So we're pursuing them right now. And we also are organizing in the cannabis industry where there's 425,000 W2 employees nationwide. Cannabis. The guys who trim marijuana. Well, cultivate it, warehouse it, grow it, and sell it. And soon it'll be transported. So what percentage now of your members drive cannabis?

I would probably say 45% of our members. Really? So, what's the difference? Between UPS. I mean, UPS is our largest employer. We've got some freight. We've got DHL. Yeah, probably closer to 50%. How'd you get involved? I'm a fourth-generation Teamster from Boston, Local 25. My dad was a rank-and-file member. My grandfather was a truck driver. My great-grandfather came from Ireland. He was a Teamster as well.

What did he do? Drove a truck or a horse and buggy, I should say, probably. Really? Yeah. And what'd your dad do? My dad worked construction and then worked motion pictures. What was he like? What was he like? Yeah. Oh, he was crazy. Hilarious cartoon character. Burly guy, Charlestown guy, great.

Hard working, worked two or three jobs. You know, just a real family person. Was a street guy as well. You know, he was a very quiet person.

quiet man, but he was true blue to the union. Always working, making certain that, you know, he put food on the table. Great guy and died too young. We had a lot of fun with him, but I had a great relationship with my dad because I went right to work in the union when I was 18. Doing what? I worked in a rigging company, crane company, Shaughnessy and Ahern, one of the biggest crane companies. Yeah. I was always fascinated with the team says union. You know, my dad was my best friend and

I have an older brother and a younger brother, and they're both in the Teamsters Union, but I was the one that always really liked trucks. I love tractor trailers. I love driving them. But I loved going to the Sunday meeting when I was eight or nine years old. I would go to Local 25 in Charlestown. Both my parents grew up there. My mother grew up in the projects.

And I just remember being fascinated by the camaraderie of the Team Stasunia. I remember watching Billy McCarthy, who was our general president out of Local 25 eventually. I just remember him being larger than life. And the Team Stasunia was so prevalent in my family. I'm like, you know, I'd go to school with him.

These kids, I want to be a lawyer. I want to be a doctor. I'm like, I want to be a truck driver for the Teamsters Union. And that's everything I want to do was just because I learned it around the dinner table. I was so proud because everything we had in our entire life was because of the union. And that organization, through the good times and the bad times, there were a lot of bad times, that organization never waived it on my family. And I'm like, if I ever get an opportunity, this is what I want to do. And I just moved up through the ranks.

It's such an antique world you're describing, such an American archetype. It's like out of a movie. I just hit my 34th year this year. But I wonder, I mean, one of the reasons I wanted to talk to you was, you know, well, for a lot of reasons, to get your political analysis, but also just that...

the life that you grew up in, I just wonder if that still exists. It just seems so thoroughly American, thoroughly New England. Yeah, I mean, I think we're on an anomaly now. I mean, I have friends at my age, you know, that went to college. And look, I did very well by the union. I always worked. I worked seven days a week, twice a week.

12, 13 hours a day. Got laid off, hustled, whatever needed to be done. Did you not go to college? I went for a semester. I played football at UMass for one semester. But, you know, I have my friends that went to school and, you know, they graduated early 90s, chased the dot-com era. Yeah. And, you know, they chased a lot of money. You know, some of them were in...

you know, insurance, whatever, but they were switching jobs every four or five years. There was no continuity. And they may have made a little bit more money. I had a four-year head start on a lot of these people and I bought houses and everything else, but, you know, they were always switching jobs. And I remember an old-timer saying to me, stay with the union, stay the course. It's not a marathon. It's not a sprint. It's a marathon. And today, like the same friends say,

You know, they take a snapshot of their lives. They got the big houses, two SUVs, but they don't have pensions. They're paying 75% towards their medical. It looks great. The snapshot looks great. They're in serious debt. Right. And it's never going to change for us. You know, like you said, it's old school, old school values. You learn that around the dinner table.

Don't extend over your means. You know, stay true blue. It's going to pay off at some point in time. And I think to your point, you know, there's not much of that left anymore. We've got to kind of...

switch gears and do a do a revisit there's not i mean i'm 55 i remember that i'm never part of that world but i remember it really well especially new england absolutely i mean billy bulger was running politics in this yeah yeah you know him oh yeah yeah i knew billy bulger yeah so where where my my father and my mother are from charlestown it's a white you know irish catholic um

then over the bridge was the North End. And then you had South Boston, which was white Irish Catholic. The colony projects. Yeah, old colony projects. My mother grew up in the Bunker Hill Project. So yeah, we were familiar with that whole, the whole Bulger tale, because some of it's not true. But yeah, I mean, they were pretty powerful people, Billy Bulger. My father's from Boston and when they, and was a totally legitimate or semi-legitimate person, great man.

But when they caught Whitey Bulger, I think in Santa Monica in an apartment, my father, who was like 78 by this point, called me on the phone and said, fuck, they caught him. I was like, gee, pop, you're really rooting for Whitey Bulger? Yeah, I was. Well, they caught him, but the government knew where he was the whole time. I'm sure that's true. There's no doubt. Talked to my dad about it. It was funny, though. It was like... The government didn't want him to be found.

I believe that. It's 110% true. Have you talked to my dad about this? No, but I mean, growing up there, it's funny. You know, when you grow up in that area, you know, and you talk to people around the country, you know, they'll always say something, you know, obviously, Whitey Boulder or whatever. He was not a good guy. Yeah, yeah. Was not a good guy. No one should ever idolize that guy. But, you know, the government, you know, he was bought and paid for, and, you know, it...

He hurt a lot of families. He did, but it was more complicated than just criminal versus G-man. I mean, the FBI was involved in all that on the dark side. They were knee-deep in it. Literally. Knee-deep in it. I mean, the agent went to prison for it, so it's not a guess. Absolutely. And it's just funny because growing up in the 80s and 90s, you had a front row seat.

you know, to what was going on. Steve, the rifleman Flemmy? Yeah, yeah. Those guys are all not good guys, you know? Not good guys. And plus, they told on their own, hey, it's one thing if you want to be a criminal, like, hey, that's your thing. I wanted to go to work, right? I want to

I want to provide for my family. Someone wants to be a criminal, give it 110%. When you get caught, don't tell on your friends. Don't tell on your friends and don't blame everybody else. Everything I've ever done wrong in my life, it's been because of me. Yeah, me too. I haven't blamed anybody. You know, it is what it is. I always say, does anybody have a better bad idea? Yeah.

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Paid for by the Merchants Payments Coalition. Not authorized by any candidate or candidates committee. www.merchantspaymentscoalition.com Do you feel that maybe you're out of step with the modern world with those attitudes? No, I think, I think

you know, the modern world's difficult to navigate through, but like anything else, being brought up the way we were brought up with the values we learned, um, growing up in the industries that we worked in, I think it's more valuable today to have that thought process of, you know, uh, old school ways with modern, um,

modern society because everybody falls in love with anything that's convenient that doesn't take a lot of effort, if that makes sense. Of course. Where we grew up where you had to provide a lot of effort

to make changes and to actually be successful. And I think that's important. People have to understand the value of working hard, the value of maybe having some, you know, struggles in your life because it's going to make you the person you are further down the road. And you're going to actually appreciate things more. So no, I don't think that's a hindrance at all. I think it's a strength, to be honest with you.

What did you do at O'Shaughnessy and O'Hearn? O'Shaughnessy and O'Hearn, I was a rigger. I was a steward. What does that mean? So a rigger is, you know, dealing with cranes, hoisting, moving heavy equipment, hauling heavy equipment around on tractor trails. Every day was different. So I always tell people, you know, what is a rigger? I'm like, well, it's like putting, you know, five pounds of shit in a two-pound bag and making it look good.

And that's what we did. You got to stuff it in there. Like once, you know, for a Sunday, we could be hoisting air-conditioned units by helicopter onto a building in Boston. And then the next day, we're moving a piece of art

with a crane over the Museum of Fine Arts. And the next day I might be hauling an oversized crane somewhere. So every day was different. You had to use your mind. You had to use your common sense. And it was an apprenticeship program I went through. And I'm still on the seniority list today. Still, we hold our seniority.

So I haven't been there in 26 years, but before I retire, I'm going to clock in for a week just to get my six weeks of vacation. Like a true Teamster. So your father lived to see you get into Teamsters leadership? My father lived to see me take over Local 25. I was the youngest president to ever take it over. I was 33 years old.

And he died in 2012, and I was running for Eastern Region Vice President, and I won the election in 2011, November. I was the highest vote getter, and he passed away suddenly in January. And it was a funny story on how he passed away. So...

He was a man of few words. He threw compliments around like sewer caps.

But he's a very proud man. He was very proud of his sons and everything else. And so he died. And typical, we go through his pockets, see where he stashed all his cash, like fooling around. And my mother went in a suit jacket of his and he had a ticket to go see me get sworn in at the convention, never told anybody he was coming or anything. So it was pretty good, but he was a character. He was a type of guy that,

Growing up, my mother raised three of us, three boys, and we're all very close in age. She raised her three younger brothers in the projects in Charlestown, and then she gets blessed with him as a husband and three of us. It wasn't easy, but he was the type of guy you could go to him and say, hey, Dad, I screwed up. He wouldn't scream and yell at you, all right, let's figure this out. He was always there that way where at times he would flip his lid, but...

He was a man's man. He always taught us about loyalty, always taught us about integrity. My mother was obviously the biggest influence in our life. So it was a great upbringing. Tough at times. I mean, a lot of tough love, not a lot of hugs. But at the end of the day, none of us ended up in jail, none of us ended up on drugs, and we've been pretty successful and lived a good life. So they did something right.

I mean, the Boston that you grew up in, which I remember vividly was, you know, so well was really, it was an Irish city. I mean, no one would say it, but it's just a fact. It was like it was run by the Irish and had been since like the 1850s when they came in and took it over from the Yankees because they were better organizers and more intense. And politics was dominated by it. Culture in a low key was working class. Boston was Irish. Right. But certainly politics, the whole state was dominated by the Irish, right? Sure. Billy Bulger was part of that.

That's kind of gone now. Yeah. I mean, you look at, you know, take a snapshot of Boston politics 10 years, 10 years ago and go back even further, like 30 years.

See, we were out right now. It's a completely different landscape. Completely different landscape. Like, Rae Flynn could never get elected now. No, Rae Flynn, Tom Menino, Marty Walsh probably couldn't get elected today. No way, I agree. So, yeah, it's totally, totally different. You know, the priorities seem to have changed. And I think what changed in Boston, which is part of the problem that you see, is that no one from Boston...

that grew up in Boston or in the Boston area like Medford where I'm from, Everett, Somerville, no one in Cambridge, no one that grew up there can afford to live there. I know. So what you have is you have all these transients and these people from the suburbs and out of state that grew up in rural areas their whole life. Now they want to be city people. They move in here and they're paying the high rents, they're paying the high costs.

And they're basically controlling the narrative. And that narrative is not consistent with the Boston that I knew and that I grew up with. Boston was a blue collar city that was very proud of

Very patriotic. Very. And now it's completely, you know, gone the other way. Well, there was a great deal of attention to, like, the people who live there. I mean, that's one thing I always noticed about Boston. It was obviously corrupt to some extent. There are a lot of drunk people in the state house. On the other hand, like, they seem to, the quality of life issues, it was safe. It was clean. You know, it worked pretty well. There was real services there. Yeah.

And that, it seems to have inverted. Like, there are almost no working class people in Boston that I can see. Now, if you go down the seaport, South Boston, I mean, you go down the seaport and, look, development's great for an area, but...

But it's going to be developed with the intent that people that are from there don't get forced out. They can afford to live there. The gentrification that Boston has seen over the last 10 years is crazy. If you went to South Boston 25 years ago, where I used to report to work every day in South Boston, and you took a snapshot of the waterfront, there was nothing down there. Matter of fact, 1995 or 96, I was working rank and file. We were building a crane there.

Because they were getting ready to build a hotel right in the seaport, which wasn't the seaport that we know it as. And I remember saying, why are they putting a hotel here? Who is actually going to come here? To South Boston. Right. I mean, we'd back in our cars, our vehicles to go to work and we'd have to look to make sure someone wasn't sleeping in the parking lot that you'd run over. That's how...

you know, how it's changed. But who would think that South Boston right now, I mean, they got $4,500 a month for studio apartment and it's not people our age renting them. It's 25, 26 year olds that mommy and daddy are paying for them to live in the city. So it's changed dramatically.

I mean, it's still a beautiful, clean city. The politics are crazy. They're far left on a lot of issues. And, you know, I think people are more concerned with social issues than they are the economic issues right now. Well, that's kind of nicely put. That's exactly what I'm trying to describe. The city got a lot richer, right?

And nicer in some ways, but crappier in other ways. Yeah, the social issues are important, right? I get it. And everybody should be able to have their own opinions on whatever those issues are. I mean, I think you and I probably have the same opinions on a lot of the social issues. But from what we do every day as representing working people and

people in general is we want to make certain that people have the economic resources to buy a modest home, to afford tuition so their kids can go to school, and to plan for a very modest and retirement that's not compromised by debt. And

Unfortunately, the Boston politics or the Massachusetts politics have taken a road down this social justice warrior path where we're not so concerned with the people on Main Street. We want to make sure that we're fighting these social justice wars.

issues that do not put food on the table, do not keep gas prices normal, do not compromise people when they go into the grocery store. So a lot has changed, I think, as a result of this election. And look, this election was a perfect example of it. Think about the Democrats. And again, I'm a Democrat. Think about their whole narrative through this election. It was all social issues.

Our members who I know intimately, and look, some of them don't agree with me. Some of them don't agree with our policies. And that's the beauty of living in America.

You can have disagreements, you can have difference of opinions, but by talking to our members, we knew the concerns were the prices at the gas pumps, prices at the grocery stores, and the ability to afford a home and maintain and keep that home. Exactly. And then you get into, you know, the issues are important. I get it, the social issues, but...

I've got to live. I've got to put food on my table. And it was never so proven in this past election that the social issues are important, but they don't matter. What matters is, you know, people, especially the working class, being able to make ends meet. Well, exactly. It felt like the whole constituency was unhappy college girls and making them feel valued more.

I'm not against unhappy college girls, I feel sorry for them, but you can't have an entire political party catering to them alone. Like, what about like normal people with jobs and stuff? They were just ignored. Look, you got to represent everybody. Yeah, exactly. No matter what. And, you know, the Democratic Party, and I've been very critical of them, and I'm going to continue to be very critical of them because I think it's important that they listen for once. They haven't listened in 20 years.

Because they think they own you? They think they own everybody. You know, instead of, when I have a conversation with you and I don't agree with you, my goal is to not get you to agree with me, but I want you to see that because I have a difference of opinion that it's not going to destroy a relationship and there's going to be many issues that you and I may be able to embrace together and maybe make some change. Right? This party, once you go against them,

They get so vindictive. The party, the Democrats now are acting the way that they used to accuse the Republicans 20 and 30 years ago. And they basically become that Republican party that they despised. Intolerant. Fell in love with corporate elitists. Well, I know. Right? Don't want to listen to their constituents. Right.

they want to dictate how people should vote and how people should think and that's a problem and i'm watching all this media and i'm done with mainstream media i am done with it um especially after the way it affected you know us during this election you know you get you watch cnn you watch uh you watch msnbc that narrative was so scripted

And forget whether you're a political person or not, if you are Joe Q. Public or Jane Q. Public watching that coverage during the election...

It was rigged. It was scripted. And, you know, part of being an American is you should have the ability to listen to opinions and form your own and make your own decisions. That Main Street media has proven one thing. They are not relevant whatsoever. Oh, I know. And, you know, that's part of the problem. I mean, we've got to do a reset, Democratic Party especially. Yeah.

Yeah, I mean, I think labor is not the only group that is – I mean, it's not even about politics. It's just if you're taken for granted by your spouse or your political party or your employer, being taken for granted is bad. You're going to get treated like an object after a while. You know what I mean? 100%. And I think that there are other groups of –

who have reached this. I'll give you a perfect example. This is hilarious. And you know, I think you know me by now. I call balls and strikes and I'm going to say what's on my mind regardless. So you're trying to, the Democrats are trying to court us to endorse Joe Biden in January, right? And Joe Biden has been a good president for us, Labor. Has he done everything we wanted? No, absolutely not. Again, you get into, we fixed your pension. Great, thank you. Your first order of business, you shut down

oil drilling, you shut down pipelines. I got 7,000 members that lost their jobs immediately, the keystone, right? So, you know, I started pointing out some of that stuff to them, which I was quiet about in the beginning. But, you know, you're out there jockeying for our support and they want us to endorse Biden in January. All of Labor did. And I'm like, no, we're not doing that. We've got to talk to our members. We're going to make sure where our members are at. So we go through this whole winter and

getting pressure from people in the Democratic Party. And we stayed the course, "No, we're not. We want to interview the candidates," which we've never done before. And we asked every single candidate in January or December to come in and meet with us. The first person to respond was Donald Trump. I'll be in there, definitely, without a doubt. And all these other candidates, RFK, right away, Asa Hutchinson, Cornel West, all of them, they came right in. Same format, same questioning like we talked about earlier.

And the struggle was getting Biden in here. He didn't like the fact that Trump committed early or the Democrats didn't like that he committed early. So long story short, we go through this whole

and we have Biden in there and, you know, you could just clearly tell he was, you know, not the man he was. And it was kind of sad, you know, because it's sad because you look at it and I think generally, you know, a nice older man, nice older gentleman, right? And what they were doing to him, the Democratic Party, it would kind of like look like elderly abuse to me. Yes. And, you know, we knew we weren't going to go with him and then after the first debate,

Wait, but so in your meeting with him, it was obvious that he was. Yeah, it was. So we give 16 questions two weeks in advance, the same 16 questions to each candidate. So, you know, RFK answered all 16 questions. Probably most of them didn't answer them how we would like them to answer them, but they answered them. Joe Biden came in and he answered five of them. Donald Trump answered all 16 questions.

And then when Biden drops out of the race, but prior to Biden dropping out of the race, he's in the race around June or May. One of my vice presidents, a woman named Joan Corey out of my local, she sits on our general executive board, was at an event with Vice President Harris.

And, you know, they're going through the line to get the picture. And Joan introduces herself to Vice President Harris. Says, I'm Joan Corey. I'm on the general executive board for the Teamsters. She goes, Teamsters, you better get on board. You better get on board. Better get on board soon. Says it to my vice president. To her face? To her face. So she comes back. We have the meeting the next day. Damn. And she tells me this. I thought I was arrogant. That's really arrogant. So she tells me this.

So I call up Marty Walsh. He wasn't the secretary of labor, but he was pushing hard for us to make the endorsement. I'm like, let me ask you a question, Marty. Excuse my French. Who does this fucking lady think she is? If I want to support from any organization, I am not going to point my finger in someone's face and say, you better get on board or else. But that's the attitude of this whole organization.

Party. So fast forward, she finally agrees to come after we were putting pressure on her, you know, basically, because I was doing interviews all over the place saying, we haven't got invited to the DNC. You know, they haven't accepted our invitation for her to come to a roundtable. So she comes to the roundtable, same format, same questions, rank and file members are asking her questions, just like they asked every other candidate before.

They were trying to negotiate with us. She only wants to answer three questions. We're like, there's 16 questions here. So she answers three of them. And on the fourth question, one of her operatives or one of her staff slips a note in front of me, this will be the last question. And it was 20 minutes earlier than the time that it was going to end. Come on. 100%. And so, you know, you're there trying to get our support. And her declaration on the way out was,

I'm going to win with you or without you.

She thought that or said it out loud? She said it out loud. That's insane. So... That's crazy behavior, actually, if you think about it. It was insane behavior, which at that point in time, I knew she was going to lose. Me, that's just my unqualified opinion. I got a gut instinct and I'm like... Well, you turned out to be right. Someone this arrogant, forget anything else, but you put your finger on someone's face at an Emily's List event, once you find out what the team says, and you say, you better get on board or else.

That's a problem. And then you come before us, you don't answer the question, you want to dictate what you're going to answer, and then you leave 20 minutes before it's over. And the one difference between all the candidates that came was that at the conclusion of all these roundtables, we had media set up. So after the conclusion of meeting with Trump, I did a press conference down in the lobby of my building. Well,

Donald Trump did a press conference down in the lobby of my building after he spoke. The same offer was extended to both President Biden and Vice President Harris, and they refused. So you're meeting with the biggest labor organization that you want, and you've got an opportunity for media to question you about how you felt the media, how you felt the meeting went, and what you wanted to achieve, and you don't want to speak to the media? That's a problem. But Trump, to his credit, and our building and our foyer,

had a press conference. So you're describing the way like a rich person would talk to the housekeeper, like how dare you question me? You work for me. Right. They don't realize that, and I've said this numerous times, when I'm talking to a member, whoever that member may be, regardless of race, religion, color, creed, I know that they give me the opportunity to represent them and they employ me. Yeah. Right? And I've said this many times, the Democrats can understand who they work for

They work for the constituency that they represent in their communities. Exactly. And that's where they've lost sight of who their employer is. They think that the constituency should serve them. Exactly. And it's disgraceful. And, you know, what we've been saying for a year, now everybody's embracing saying, well, the Democratic Party needs a reset. Well, where were you nine months ago? Where were you two years ago?

If you were really passionate about putting up a candidate that could actually represent Democrats like they did or represent the party, why weren't you developing a plan two and a half years ago? Because you thought you just had in the bag, you thought people were going to do what you tell them to do. Well, clearly that didn't work. So what's the future? And they don't have an answer. It may be that that period of history is just over. Yeah.

And maybe your state tells the story. Everyone, I look at the results from Massachusetts and it's like the bluest state in the nation. It's the most liberal state. I have family there on both sides, my wife and me. I don't know a single liberal in Massachusetts, not one. I don't know a single Irish person who's liberal, maybe one. There's not one Italian in the entire state who's liberal, none. They were all Democrats. If you're still using Verizon, AT&T or T-Mobile, obviously our condolences, but you're going to want to hear this.

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I mean, back me up. You live in Massachusetts. What was that you met a liberal Italian guy? Oh, well, never. They're going to they exist now. They're going to exist, I think. I mean, well, I mean, maybe don't exist that way. But to your point, everybody was Democrat. Yeah. Right. Everybody was Democrat. Yeah.

Now you talk to people and look, sometimes people will talk to you and they'll tell you, hey, I seen you on the RNC. Great job. And you know, like they've been talking shit online because you see it whenever. But I think the majority of the people are fed up. Totally, totally fed up. But I'm just saying that whole world of organized, at least in your union, like just the people in it.

You know, they were all Democrats, but they were never, they were kind of traditional social, they have families, like they care about pensions. They believe in- Generations. They believe in generations. Exactly right. They believe in continuity. Right. As you said at the beginning. It's not even political. It's a mindset. It's a worldview. And that whole group is like so out of step with the Democratic Party that I'm not really sure how that's ever fixed. No, but, and then, you know, you make a great point. So through this whole-

let's say, right? The Republicans, and we've worked with a lot of great Republicans in the Senate. Josh Hawley's been great with us. J.D. J.D. Vance has been great with us. You know, Roger Marshall has been great. And, you know, I'll give you Josh Hawley, for instance. Josh Hawley was, you know, we met with him. We had a conversation. Didn't know him.

Had a conversation with him early on, and we were telling him, look, one of our biggest issues is national right to work. And we explained to him why the right to work is not good for this country, why it's not good for his constituency. And soon after that meeting, he come out with a statement on X saying, I met with the Teamsters Union. I'm supportive of working people, and they're basically educated. We've talked about right to work, and I don't support national right to work.

And then we had a strike with a company in his state, Graybar. He went out and walked the picket line.

And that strike was settled the next day. Now, I'm not saying because he walked a picket line, but he demonstrated that that's what he's willing to do because his constituency works there. Those are the people that he represents. Who vote for him. That's right. And, you know, he's been great on our issues, you know. And I think the Republicans have a great opportunity right now to show working people that,

what they were saying during the election is going to hold true. And I think Trump proved early on when he actually listened to us and when we lobbied for Larry Chavez de Riemer to be the Labor Secretary. Now, you know, I don't think it was a popular decision from a lot of his donors that supported him. But, you know, I went down and I had a frank conversation with the president. I'm like, look, this is important to us.

you know, if you truly want to show that you're going to, you know, embrace working people and work hard on their behalf, this is an early indicator that you're willing to do this. And he did it. So, you know, people that are saying Trump's anti-labor, he's anti-worker. I mean, look, he started off on a great, great footing. I mean, he named the secretary of labor. Well, look at who voted for him. I mean, look at who voted for him. You go to rural America, you

You know, where there are no people who aren't, quote, workers. I mean, you know, most people didn't go to college. They work. They have back problems by the age of 40 because they work with their bodies. They all vote Trump. There's not anyone who didn't vote Trump. I've got back problems from the last eight months of the knife wounds from the far left of the Democratic Party. I've got back problems from sitting in an anchor chair my whole life. It's a very tough job, Sean. Sit up straight. But, you know, it...

Here's one. OK, so obviously the Republican Party is in the middle of this total change. It saw itself as the party of big business. It's clearly not. Its voters aren't and its donors aren't increasingly. But I think there are a lot of Republicans, especially in the Senate, like Mitch McConnell, who.

who just have not... Well, Mitch McConnell is a really bad person, so he's a specific case. But there are decent people who just haven't sort of made the mental change, that they're not the party that they thought they were. Well, I think part of that problem is we haven't had the conversations with those folks either. I totally agree. Because there's been such a line drawn in the sand...

Where if you were on one side or the other, especially in our world, labor, if you're a Democrat, you shouldn't be talking to the Republicans. But I'm like, that's bullshit. I agree. How are we going to get stuff done in this country? Forget anything else. It's like, you know, if you're looking to truly collaborate and actually make things happen—

You've got to talk to people that you normally wouldn't. You've got to express your ideals, your opinions, and there's got to be common ground. I mean, I deal with probably the worst employers in the world. I deal with corporate greed, white collar crime syndicates like Costco, United Airlines, and there's a list of them. And, you know, I could go on and on for days. And

A lot of the times you get problems solved by having discussions and finding out where you can work together. I mean, who would think that Mark Wayne Mullen and I almost fought twice in the middle of the Senate floor,

He's a pretty scrappy dude. Yeah, I'm from Boston, man. I don't sweat anybody. But him and I have had a conversation. We've actually had many conversations. And we agree to disagree on what we can't agree on. But at the end of the day, there's going to be a lot of things that we can work together on on behalf of his constituency, my members, and

you know, because I don't agree with you on one issue. Should I draw a line in the sand and not talk to you again? I agree. I mean, there'd be 100% divorce rate in this country if that was a key, right? No, it's true. But here's the mind shift that I think would be, I would like to see. So labor's an ancient institution in the United States and a pivotal one in the economic and political history of the country. But I do think people should have caught

in this sort of 1930s thinking where it's, you know, workers versus some manufacturing company. And the power shift has been so complete. I don't know if we've, it's like, it's like even Amazon is not as powerful as the financial institutions. And I personally think just as a observer, I'm not labor or management. We're going to convert you at some point though. Yeah. Well, I've been a member of a union most of my life, but it's a particularly shitty union. SAG,

But anyway, here's the point. At some point, I would like to see somebody with power ask questions of the banks, because if you want to know what hurts working people, it's debt and it's credit card debt, specifically 22 percent. And nobody says a word about it.

And I think the fastest way to improve the lives of middle class, working class people is to address that in some way or at least begin the conversation. Like it's bad to hook people on 22% interest. Yeah, it's bad to hook people who depend upon keeping their electricity and the utilities on when they have to pay with a credit card at 22%. Because again, the corporate greed...

A lot of these CEOs at these banks, there's such a disparity between the people that are their customers and what the banks are making.

There should be a platform to regulate these banks and make certain that everybody is playing, you know, have a level playing field like these credit card companies. Like you made a point earlier off the record. You said there should be a union for credit card, people that have credit cards, right? Yeah. And that...

What we do as a labor organization, we're not being treated fairly like Amazon or anybody else. When our members are not being treated fairly, what do we do? We withhold our labor. Well, imagine if we, to your point earlier, withheld our payments as a country to these credit card companies.

companies and these banks that obviously support these credit cards would send a pretty strong fucking message. Well, I've raised this before and been treated as like the Unabomber. Like, that's too crazy. I'm not radical at all. I'm a totally moderate person in the sense that in the end... I'll carry that flag. I like chaos. Well, so I like it. I think, look, I think you probably want banks in your country. I don't think banks are the root of all evil, but I do think...

Banks hurt a lot of people, and they seem immune from criticism. You can attack anybody. No one ever attacks the banks. Well, think about it this way. Not in 100 years. Why is that? Well, we talk about, well, they're so powerful, right? We talk about, you know, the old school values of growing up in a neighborhood and growing up, you know, with simple things. Just remember, the neighborhood banks that we dealt with early on, they actually cared about the people. Yeah, knew them anyway. They knew them in your neighborhood. Yeah.

They knew him. No one knows TD Bank. No one knows Bank of America. There's no personal connection there. No. It's all about bottom line and how much money they're going to make. Oh, yeah. And, you know, that's what's missing as well. They may be selling your debt to somebody you don't never even know. Yeah, how many times have you got a mortgage?

And, you know, the bank you go through sells it to someone else. They're making money. I believe we had a financial crisis over this. Yeah, I think it was 2008, 2009. I think there's a movie about that, right? There may be. But credit cards especially. And the payday loan people have taken a lot of deserved, well-deserved abuse. I mean, clearly that's predatory. But I just, I remember when I was a kid, my father was a reporter, covered the mafia. And they, I remember very well hearing from him that they put people in prison for loan sharking.

You know, all the time. Put the mafia in prison for loan sharking. I don't think they were loaning at 22%. They probably had better rates than the banks and credit cards, definitely. And by the way, they paid out on the lotto in full, unlike the state governments, which pay you like a percentage of it. They're more crooked than the mafia, and no one says a word. It's disgusting. It is disgusting. It's actually criminal. Yes. I liked Josh Hawley had a nice...

uh, Senate hearing where, you know, he, he brought them to task. He brought the credit card companies to task. And, uh, you know, it seems like you get punished for being, you know, the misfortunes you may endure in life. So the credit cards too, the other thing I don't like about them is, you know, if you, if you got a good credit rating and you're, you know, you've been fortunate enough to have a good job, you got a lesser rate.

If I have bad credit and I've got a lot of debt, I'm getting that higher rate. So they're preying on the weak. Of course. And that's got to stop. That's got to stop. At the very least, we should say it's wrong. And by the way, it's prohibited by every religion. I mean, people have thought this was wrong for thousands of years. Right. We're in this weird hiatus where, I mean, Judaism is—

Christianity and Islam all have a lot to say about usury. And they're very explicit about it, but we've sort of forgotten that or something. I don't really get it. Yeah, it's funny. When problems don't affect certain people, they don't want to hear about them or they don't want to do anything about them. Yeah. I don't think it's radical to raise it at all. No, I don't think so either. God bless Josh Hawley. You know, I don't think it's radical at all. I mean, it's a disgrace when people have to pay their bills on their credit card and you know they're never going to catch up. Never. Never. Never.

And by the way, if I can just make, it's not a partisan point, but it's just true. Joe Biden did that. He made bankruptcy not, I mean, credit card debt not dischargeable in bankruptcy. He did that in the bankruptcy bill because he's from Delaware and they paid for his house. Pretty corrupt. So let me ask you about A.I.,

this is going to have a transformative effect. Everybody says on labor, what effect will AI have? Well, AI is going to have an effect on everything. I mean, it needs to be regulated. It needs to not be a weapon against working people. Um, technologies, you know, common, fast and furious, especially in many of the industries that we represent. Um, but again, these are conversations that need to be had before AI is implemented and, or, um,

dispersed into the workplace, there's a lot of jobs that can be created as a result of technology, as a result of implementation of AI. And again, it's, you know, people drawing a line in the sand, not want to have these conversations. The general public or the general perception of the world is they want convenience, they want less labor, but it's not good for the country. It's not good for working people. And automation is going to be just as...

debilitating to work in people, then it's just like AI. And what we've done is we've negotiated contracts where automation has to be negotiated in the industries we work.

If they're going to make a technological change or they're going to automate something, they've got to maintain the job levels and create jobs moving forward as a result of this technology. You take grocery warehouses where they're having robots pick orders. Well, we've been able to negotiate contracts where we create jobs, we maintain the robots, we program the robots.

You know, we fix the robots, we build the robots in some of these cases. So there's always opportunity. United Apostle Service, 340,000 members. Technology plays a big role in the forwarding of packages and envelopes. And, you know, obviously it's efficient, but there are jobs created as a result of it. And that's what the beauty about being in a union is. But I think people underestimate technology.

how technology is going to destroy this country if we don't regulate it, if we don't get in front of it, we don't create jobs as a result of it. I mean, we're dummying down this society so much. It's, you know, your college students not doing research papers, they're using AI.

How is that good? How is that good for your mind? Right? You got people out there, like you mentioned your union SAG, screen actors, screenwriters, you know, they're going to be out of jobs if AI comes in. So, I mean, we've got to take a hard look at where AI will be valuable to this country and where it will be detrimental. And I don't think we've taken a good look at it. I don't think we've taken a look at it at all. And, you know, the state of California is betting everything and its budget

That guy out there. He's a ridiculous person. But why shouldn't, if there's like electricity or any emergent technology, electricity shows up 100 years ago. It's fair to ask, you know, clearly it provides light and, you know, powers machines. But is there a downside? I don't know for any technology, nuclear technology. And AI is as transformative as any technology. So why is there no conversation about harnessing it for good rather than evil? Well, think about how we started. Teamsters, horse and buggy.

Then they came out with engines, then they came out with trucks. That was technology evolving, but we always protected the jobs, right? We always made sure that those jobs are protected. And that was technology back then, right? Gavin Newsom in California should be the poster child for bad behavior when it comes to protecting against AI and technology. He's the same guy that working people through the recall election saved him, right? Yeah.

But he's the same guy that when you work a bipartisan bill to protect against technology, AI, and also mandate autonomous vehicles to have a human operator, which is bipartisan, gets on his desk, first order of business, is he vetoes it. Yeah. He vetoes it. You know why? Because he's looking for his next best opportunity with the...

captors he fell in love with, technology, tech companies, Google, Uber, whatever else, Lyft, all those companies he's bought and paid for. He doesn't care about how that affects people's jobs. He doesn't care about how it affects the community. He's looking for his next payday, and that's a disgrace. I couldn't agree more. Do you think that in this administration, the AI czar is a guy called David Sachs,

Have you talked to him? No, I haven't. But the one encouraging thing that I've seen, last week, you know the Longshoremen? Yes. So they had a strike, two-day strike, and it was over wages, two issues, wages and automation, which is AI. And they used the ports in China to demonstrate how efficient it is by using robots and artificial intelligence.

The one good thing was that President Trump met with the long showman because they've got a cooling off period until January 15th, and then they'll go back into negotiations to negotiate the AI and the automation, which I think they're going to be successful in.

you know, maintaining their jobs. But President Trump came out and said, I've been studying automation. I've been studying AI for a long time. I don't believe anybody should be losing their jobs over that. So that's encouraging. So I think to your point, I haven't had a conversation with that man. I'd love to, just to express how important it is to have conversations with people that actually perform jobs that could be replaced by technology or AI.

Because that may give a different perspective where we can collaborate and actually create more jobs as a result of it. Yeah. Do you want a stable, happy country? That's the question that has to remain in mind always. Well, I think everybody does. I'm not sure that's true. I think there are people who believe as a matter of religiously. Everybody in my world. Me too. And that's what I want. But there are people who believe as a matter of faith that you can't stop...

It's evolution that it's like, it's like God, you worship as a God and, you know, you obey its commands. They think that. Yeah. And look, people are entitled to their opinion, but those are the people that, you know, probably less affected by it. When you get people, people don't engage in any type of fight or protest unless unfortunately it affects them personally. Yeah.

I know that my members and I know that working class people around the country, that they're scared. They're scared. They're frightened of technology. So they're willing to fight for it. And these people that aren't affected by it can have all the opinions. Well, it's common. There's nothing we can do about it. Well, your son or daughter may be affected by this or your neighbor or a relative. You should get engaged and protect the integrity of this country.

Not just go along to get along because that's where we're going wrong in this country. You know, the attitude is, oh, they can just do it. Well, why? Why can they do it? Why can't we stop it? Why can't we modify it? Why can't we collaborate to create more jobs? Why do we have to dummy down everything we do in this country?

So I think there's an opportunity there, but we have to have these conversations. Maybe the biggest lie about abortion is that it's just not a big deal. That's not true. And studies show it. A year after having an abortion, women overall had a 50% higher chance of needing psychiatric treatment and an 87% higher likelihood of personality and behavioral disorders. That's not healthcare. It's a tragedy.

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What happened to Jimmy Hoffa?

Oh, man. Honestly? I don't know. Again, that's, you know, it's a tragedy what happened. Look, there's no love lost between his son, my predecessor, and me.

Don't like the man. Never cracked an egg. He was born on third base. Thinks he hit a triple to get there. Was bad for our organization. However, his father was a great teamster, a great American. And the sad part of society right now is that man was murdered. Oh, yeah. He was murdered. 1975 outside Detroit. And the family lost their father. Regardless how I feel about the family, lost their father. And unfortunately, it's like anything else in society. It's a joke.

Right? It's a joke. Where is he? What happened? Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Look, the guy was an icon. He created this union. He brought it to where it is. But, you know, that's what's wrong with society. Who do you think killed him? I don't know. I met a guy once who told me that he— There's all kinds of theories. There's all kinds of— But you think he was murdered? Yeah, I don't think he ran away. No, or put in witness protection. Yeah, that would have been public. That would have been public. Yeah. You know? 50 years later. Yeah. Yeah.

But there's no, when you took over, you didn't hit the archive to find the truth? The archive doesn't really say much about it other than, you know, it's a mystery, right? You went to lunch and didn't come back. There's all kinds of theories, and there's a lot of times I want to go to lunch and not come back. That's for other reasons, but, you know, that's what's wrong with the media today. You know, I mean, I don't know. I think it's, like, he was an icon. He should be viewed as that, and it is what it is. It's an unfortunate, unsolved mystery. What are you trying to do with Amazon? I'm going to put them on their knees.

I don't like Jeff Bezos. Oh, I don't either. He also owns the most, personally owns, not the company, he personally owns the most liberal newspaper in the United States, most left-wing, for-the-people newspaper. So I'm a little surprised to learn that he's not welcoming you guys. Yeah, no, he lost his balls during the election. You can tell that. Well, that's for sure. Yeah. He's pulling a Justin Trudeau. I mean, think for a guy that, you know, he did a little growth hormone, went back in the gym, did some testosterone. You know, he's the man. But look...

This guy does not treat his workers fairly. There's 150% turnover ratio in his company with direct employees. He hides behind a joint employer scam where- Can you explain that? I'm not sure I get it. So joint employer is he hires third parties to move his freight, right? Yeah. Deliver the packages. So you get a company like UPS. UPS has all direct employees-

drivers, loaders, sorters, part-timers, whatever it is, they're all direct employees. They're W2 employees. Yeah. Bezos inside workers, Amazon inside workers, which are going to be our members shortly, are direct employees, right? They make far less than our members of UPS. But the delivery drivers are working for a third party, a third party that has to follow the policies and procedures of Amazon.

has to buy their vehicles from Amazon. We actually got a decision in California that stated they actually are the employer

these third-party leasing arrangements. So we've made a demand nationally to, and we've got 22 locations that have organized under this model, a demand for bargaining. And he's refused to do it. And so we've given an ultimatum that if he didn't respond by December 15th, that we would take appropriate action. Now, when that happens, that's up to him. So, yeah,

Yeah, we're going to get him. We're going to get him. And he's not just a threat to the parcel industry. He's a threat to every working job in this country. I mean, they've got grocery warehouses. And look, he should embrace sitting down and negotiate. Think about what he does every day. If you don't concede to his demands for him to carry a product and sell them, what does he do? He blackballs you, right? He basically strikes good companies from distributing their products if they don't agree to his low terms and costs.

Well, he should be savvy enough to say that, well, I have an obligation to negotiate with the Teamsters because I negotiate every single day with these people. And when I don't get what I want, I strike them, right? Basically, he strikes them, doesn't allow them in his system. And he's trying to do the same over here by not allowing us in his system. So what's going to happen to him at some point? He's going to get struck. And, you know, sometimes he's a $2 trillion value of Amazon or him or whoever, right?

But he doesn't really want to reward the people that have made him truly a success. Well, they offload their personnel costs onto the taxpayer through social services. Walmart does the same. They absolutely do. So what percentage of their employees, I mean, that's, I think, should be illegal. No, it is illegal. And unfortunately, there's a system out there. This is where, under this new administration with Trump, we have an opportunity to expose Amazon employees.

for what they are and how bad they've been. And again, you get back to, you know, we have all these politicians with rhetoric, right, about Amazon. Oh, Amazon, especially the Democrats,

But you couldn't get. What kind of rhetoric? Anti-Amazon? Oh, anti-Amazon. Like, well, we want to be out there for the Amazon workers and we want to help them organize. And all this rhetoric, you know, Chuck Schumer's of the world wouldn't sign on to a letter. And then later find out his daughter works for Amazon as a lobbyist. Actually? Actually, a lobbyist for Amazon. So that's. Chuck Schumer's daughter's a lobbyist for Amazon. Yes, it is. Yes, she is. That's unbelievable. The system is so corrupt. Yeah. I can't stand it. It's crazy. So this is what you're dealing with.

So, yeah, you ask what we're gonna do? We're gonna organize them. We're gonna make Jeff Bezos respect his workers. We're gonna make Jeff Bezos an example of bad behavior from an employer. How hard is that to organize? Oh, it's gonna be tough. I mean, it's not gonna happen overnight. We've put together a program that's gonna be a four to five year program, but every single day we are building momentum, we're building worker power. And, you know, he has to understand that he's not dealing with an organization that's gonna go away.

We might not have the money that he has, but we definitely have one thing. We've got the workers on our side and we got intestinal fortitude, encouraging conviction to take on the fight. So do you have any idea what percentage of Amazon workers use federal social services to supplement their income? I would say the majority of them. I don't have that statistic, but, you know, the part-timers I know that I've talked to, especially in the New York area, they're all in subsidized housing. Some of them are in shelters, homes.

You know, some of them are on the state health plans. You know, and people don't realize when they hit that send button, they're actually paying double for the services because they're actually paying double.

for social services. Yeah, for the safety net. Where an organization like mine would demand, like we do with UPS, like we do with DHL, like we do with every other employer, that they not only pay a respectful wage, but they also give them free healthcare. They give them a retirement. They give them a career path to a retirement.

You know, and people that hit that send button don't realize that not only are they paying for the delivery and the product, they're also paying for, you know, Jeff Bezos' white-collar crime syndicate of tax evasion and evading his obligation. Well, I agree completely. I think one of the reasons I'm sympathetic to the Teamsters is because they have competent employees. I do think that's part of the deal, right?

you know, you demand benefits and higher wages, but you know, you got to do a good job. And I think UPS drivers do a good job. They're the cream of the crop. Think about during the pandemic. And this is where the team says, and I've spent two and a half years highlighting how valuable we are to this country. And I mean it with all sincerity. Pandemic was part of the worst thing that anybody's gone, we've witnessed in a long time, right? Where there was so much uncertainty, but the one thing that was certain, whether you were

delivering packages or sorting and loading packages on a truck, whether you're in a grocery warehouse, whether you were working for a healthcare company, our members went out every single day providing goods and services to this country with total disregard for their safety, the safety of their families. Some of my members lost their lives and we were deemed as heroes because we provided these goods and services.

And we were heroes. Everybody was talking about us. Everybody's saying, oh, the American worker, the Teamsters, they're heroes. Well, when these companies are making record profits during the pandemic and it comes time to reward our members, their employees, all of a sudden we're zeros. So we've been reminding corporate America how important the Teamsters union are, but more importantly, the American worker, especially through a crisis. Because, you know, like you said earlier,

you know, you talk about Irish and Italians, you know, I think corporate America has what they call Irish Alzheimer's, you know, they forget the people that provide them the most, but they never forget when they get fucked on a dollar, right? So, you know, I think, you know, the team says, yeah, we do have the best workforce in the country. We're well-trained, we're safety conscious, but, you know, we fight hard for our members.

I don't want to be vulgar or anything like that, but is it true what they say about UPS drivers being like the most desired men in the world? Men and women, right? Because they have pensions. They got big pensions. No, but I mean like, you know what I mean. Is that true? I don't know. I mean, you hear stories. I mean, everybody likes a person in uniform. I never worked for UPS. I couldn't tell you that. Sorry, I couldn't resist asking that. I mean, I've got a face for radio, so I don't know, you know.

i sure appreciate your you're doing this i've enjoyed it deeply well listen i got a venture that i'm going into i want to i want to be like you and other people i uh created a podcast

that are going to be launched in early 2025. Oh, you'll like it. It's going to be called Better Bad Idea by Sean O'Brien. That's good. We're going to have real conversations with real people about real issues that affect America. Are you really going to do that? 100%. Oh, you should invite me on. I'll come. I definitely will. Oh, done. Can't wait. Thank you. Thank you, sir.

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