149: TRIAL BOMBSHELL: Chad Daybell's Mom & "Dark" Sister-in-Law Testify
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在过去的几年里，除了查德的成年子女在《Dateline》的一集节目中露面外，我们并没有听到查德的大家庭的消息。然而，本周查德的母亲希拉·戴贝尔和他的嫂子希瑟·戴贝尔出庭作证……这一周对查德·戴贝尔来说真是糟糕透顶。

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Hey true crime besties, welcome back to an all new episode of Serialistly.

Hello, hello, hello. Welcome back, guys, to an all-new episode of Serialistly with Annie Elise, Chad Daybell, Trial Edition. Okay, guys, we're gonna do this episode a little bit differently than we've done the past. We are gonna have Lindsay, our courtroom correspondent, jump on here and share what's been going down, but I also want to give you a rundown of what's gone down so far this week, too, because...

This week, I don't even know where to begin. It is probably one of the crazier weeks so far in the trial. And probably the absolute biggest bombshell of the week was that Chad Daybell's mom testified. Yes, you heard that right. Chad's mother, Sheila Daybell, testified. Guys, it is wild.

Now, throughout the past few years, we haven't really heard much from any of Chad's extended family other than his adult children, and they were on that one Dateline episode. We also heard from his sister-in-law, Heather, but Chad's parents have remained completely silent in all of this, and truthfully, I don't really blame them because, I mean, what the hell can you say when your son is mother effing Chad Daybell? No offense, but I just...

really hate that creep and I've said it before but God bless Lindsay's heart for looking at his face all day in the courtroom because I couldn't do it he has not to shame anybody I'm not trying to like shame on his looks but I'm gonna shame on his looks like something about his Peter Griffin claymation face just irks me probably because I think he's a cold-blooded murderer but I digress so

With all that said, guys, you definitely are not going to want to miss this recap because this week was insane. And personally, I'm hoping that it was the absolute worst week of Chad's life. So I'm not only going to give you the breakdown of what went down, but like I said, we're going to be talking to Lindsay who was there all week and watched all of this go down.

Now, first, I want to start with the FBI cast specialist, Nick Balance. He testified about the phone ping locations of Chad and Alex Cox on the day that it's believed that the children were put in Chad's backyard. And let me tell you, it did not look good for buddy boy Chad. So on September 9th, one day after Tylee was last known to be alive, which was, remember, determined by that picture of her at Yellowstone from Lori's iCloud account from 7.20 a.m. to 8.40 a.m., Chad was home.

Now, during this entire time period, he was texting back and forth with Lori. Then, at 8.03 a.m., Chad called Lori. Eight minutes later, Chad called Alex, and they talked on the phone for approximately three minutes.

Then, about 30 minutes later, Alex's phone location shows that he was at his condo, and then he later arrived at Chad's house. Then, at 9.22 a.m., Alex was at the side gate of Chad's property, and I say side gate because there were gates that would open to let vehicles drive into the backyard without going through the driveway or even the front of the house. But anyways, at 10.57 a.m., Alex was near where Tylee's remains were found.

And then during this whole time between when Alex arrived at Chad's and when Alex was near where Tylee's remains were found, there were multiple text messages between Chad and Lori just going back and forth, flying back and forth.

Now, going back to Alex, at 11.42 a.m., his phone showed that he was leaving Chad's property, all while Chad is still at home. Then, three minutes after Alex left, Chad once again called Lori. And then, to top it all off, around this exact same time, Alex had an outgoing call to Lori, too.

So clearly, it's like the three of them talking back and forth about what was happening, and probably about Tylee, and they're all in cahoots with each other. Next, the FBI agent went on to talk about September 23rd, when it's believed that JJ was buried on Chad's property. From 3.59 a.m. to 8.35 a.m., Chad and Lori were once again texting back and forth rapid fire, and remember, this was all going on while Melanie Gibb and David Warwick were spending the night at Lori's condo in Rexburg.

Melanie, her former best friend, had previously testified that during the night of the 22nd and early morning hours of September 23rd, David had a really bad dream, almost like a nightmare or something. And they knocked on Lori's door to see if Chad could wake up to give David a blessing, which, guys...

Look, I'm not trying to shame anybody, but don't even get me started on what that was all about. Because seriously, like, what the heck? I'm all for religion, don't get me wrong. But like, you have a bad dream and you want a blessing? Okay, maybe, but I don't know. This whole thing just, this whole situation just kind of irks me. But anyways, the interesting part is that Lori's door was locked that night. And she never even answered the door when Melanie knocked.

So then on the 23rd, around 9 a.m., after Chad and Lori were texting, guess who starts making their way over to Chad's house again? Alex.

And once he's there, his phone pings right where JJ was buried. Now this was a major problem for the defense, considering that throughout this entire trial, Chad's attorney, John Pryor, has been trying to create this narrative that Chad lived in a pasture or this like huge expansive farmland and that he could not have had any idea that Tylee was burned and dismembered or that JJ was practically mummified with duct tape and then buried in a shallow grave. Because now

an FBI agent testified giving the exact location where Alex was on the property and that Chad was in his house the entire time. And get this, his bedroom window and his kitchen window have a direct view to exactly where the children were buried. Now, since most of Chad's defense is that he was framed by Lori and her brother Alex, how could they have framed him with this?

Well, during cross-examination, John Pryor was insinuating that the FBI may have been the ones to frame Chad, since they are the only law enforcement agency that had access to this data.

Which, let me just say, not saying that I trust every single thing that law enforcement does, but I don't really think that the FBI is making it a habit to frame people. Especially cult leaders. Especially people where there's hard evidence against them. Especially people where their wife also mysteriously died. Especially people who bought a wedding ring for their new wife two weeks before their wife died.

I don't think so. So the next two witnesses were Tammy's cousin Patty and her daughter Hannah. And both of them were given conflicting stories from Chad about how his wife Tammy died. For example, when Hannah was testifying, she talked about an incident where Chad was going up and down stairs. But then on cross-examination, John Pryor asked, are you aware that Chad's house is a one-story house? And she said no.

Now, at first, this made her seem like maybe she didn't know what she was talking about. And to be fair, Chad's house does look like a one-story, and it technically is. However, there is an addition off the back of the house that does have stairs to a loft. Which, let me just say, John Pryor should know, considering he is now currently the owner of the property, just like the realtor called him out for last week in the trial.

So the acreage that you're talking about, do you have any recollection of how much acreage we're talking around that surrounds Chad's house? You own it. How many acres is it? Well, I appreciate it. I don't know.

Judge, could we have a sidebar? Yes. So when he asked if she was aware that Chad's house was a one-story, a lot of people were wondering, wow, did John Pryor just lie? And I don't think he technically did, and I'm being very, very generous here, guys, but I do think that this is going to look really bad later on if the jury starts to put it together, that there was in fact an addition that had stairs on it, because now it does look like he's just making stuff up. And spoiler alert, the jury did hear more about the addition and the staircase.

So next, Tammy's cousin Patty gave a very emotional testimony about Tammy and about learning when she died. When Chad told her that Tammy died, he said that she wasn't feeling well and that she was coughing a lot. He asked if Tammy was okay, and she said that she threw up, but that she was now going to bed. Patty said that during this conversation, they were both crying. Then she said that before she walked away from Chad, he said, Tammy loved you so much.

Now, one thing that stood out to me during her testimony when she was asked if anything about Tammy's funeral stood out to her, she said yes. And at the funeral, she said, So the next witness that the prosecution called was Dr. Christensen. Now, can you tell us a little bit about that one, Lindsay? Sure.

So Dr. Christensen testified. He is Utah's former chief medical examiner and he actually also testified in Lori's trial, but he's the person that conducted the autopsy on Tammy's body in 2020. So this week he testified that Tammy died of asphyxiation and strangulation and he pointed to the fact that she had pink foam coming out of her mouth as well as some bruising that was found on her neck and her

bruising that was found kind of on the inside of her arms. If you think about like where your elbow is, but obviously the inside of your elbow, but above, so I guess your biceps, sorry guys. So your biceps, um, there was some bruising on there. So what he said is that based on her injuries, it's possible that she could have been, um,

held down or restrained while somebody else put a pillow over her face or smothered her. Which, this clearly was not good for the defense. Number one, Dr. Christensen could not have come off more credible in his statements based on all of his qualifications in prior education, as well as the fact that John Pryor has been trying to say, no, no, Tammy died of anemia. Tammy...

never liked to go to the doctor. She used herbal medicines. You know, it could have been something like that. She used essential oils because on cross-examination, John Pryor asked about those things.

things I just said. And Dr. Christensen basically, you know, said hard no. Nope, that would not have caused this. Based on my experience, absolutely no. So he really shut that down. So that was pretty bad for Chad, obviously. And then to make things even worse for him, his brother Matt was in the gallery sitting by Kay and Larry Woodcock.

He wanted to be there to support them throughout the trial. That was the first day he came. And you could tell that Chad did not want him there, in my opinion. Okay, so that's actually pretty crazy to me. Because so far, none of Chad's family have been in court. Did Chad look at him? Or what were you able to see in all of this? He did actually look over at Matt and kind of winked.

And somebody at the trial that I met, she actually took a screen recording after court got out and went back to that moment. And she screen recorded the exact moment. And you can literally see Chad's eyebrows raise as he looks over in Matt's direction. So it's actually pretty funny. I don't think that Matt was as enthused to see him, to be perfectly honest. It looks like it's been extremely hard on their entire extended family, losing Tammy and then now having his brother be charged with all these crimes. Oh.

Honestly, he's such a coward, but I'm so glad that Matt was there to be there for Larry and Kay. The next witness was Alice Gilbert, one of Chad's neighbors. She said that she knew Tammy better than Chad and probably saw her twice a week. She noticed that Tammy and Chad's interactions with each other changed in 2019, and she said that they just kind of started seeming a little bit distant.

When Alice was asked about Tammy having any health issues, or if she noticed that her activity had slowed down at all, she said that Tammy never slowed down. She never noticed her activity level change, there was no fainting, or really no health issues that Tammy ever brought up. No health issues at all. She said that she learned that Tammy died on the morning that she died.

because her daughter Emma called her. She said that Emma was sobbing, but then Chad took the phone from her. And then after that, she says that Chad asked her not to tell anyone that Tammy died for an hour, and specifically asked her not to call the church bishop, which Alice ended up doing anyway. But then she said that she went to the Daybell house after that around 8.30 a.m. with her husband. So if you remember, Chad called the police right about 6 a.m. So this is two and a half hours later. The police have already been there. All this stuff.

So she says that when she got to the Daybell house, Chad answered the door and gave them a hug. She said that all of the children were there except for Mark and that the children's spouses were also there and that they were sitting in the living room stunned, crying, and could hardly speak.

Yeah, and Alice asked Chad what had happened, and he talks about the legs hanging off the bed, that he thinks she died of an embolism, and she also said that Chad wasn't as upset as the children. When I asked him what happened, and he said that Tammy vomited at midnight, and they think she passed away at 2 a.m., and that her legs were hanging over the bed, and that she'd fallen out of bed.

He also said they think she died of an embolism. And Chad provided all this information the morning of her death? Yes. How did Chad appear to you? He wasn't as upset as the children. He was ready to tell us, and he wasn't as devastated as the children were.

Then the prosecutor brought up Tammy's funeral and Alice started crying and saying, "Yeah, I needed to go to this funeral. I needed to see her for myself in her casket." At the funeral, she said that Chad did not seem mournful at all. She said the children spoke and Chad spoke, but when Chad spoke, it was more of like a church talk, not a loving tribute to the mother of his kids. And then later on, Chad said that, "Yeah, you know, he can't live in the house anymore. Tammy's gone. It's too hard for him."

But luckily for him, he has a friend in Rexburg who has a condo that he can stay with. And he's actually told Alice that he is not home that often. So it works out. He. You said he. Do you recall, did Chad refer to the friend as a he? I took it as that. And I'm thinking he said he because he said he wasn't there very often. And so he could stay there. So Tammy's pronounced dead on Saturday, correct?

And by the following Wednesday, Chad's got plans to move out of the house. Yes.

Now, I've got to say, all of this has kind of been blowing my mind as it's been being uncovered because I feel like so much more damning information is coming out. Even though it seems like a similar trial to Lori's, there's still a lot of information that we're just finding out, right? And that we didn't hear. And guys, for those of you listening, it also gets a lot worse. But first, Lindsay, were you able to see Matt's reaction to all of this? So during this, Matt was looking down with his hands clasped together and

and kind of like with his head over his hands, if you can picture that. And to me, this is just what I saw. It looked like he was kind of looking down in disgust because he just would immediately look down, kind of shake his head a little bit, and then look back up just like, oh my God, man. Like you're lying to this poor church lady who seems so sweet

She's literally crying up on the stand for your wife. I'm telling you, this week, like I said, guys, has been wild. And you're hearing it directly here from Lindsay. You're hearing from us, like, what's been going down. And the testimony and the witnesses, it's just getting crazier and crazier. So, Lindsay, I want you to explain to the listeners what else is going down this week. What else has happened? Can you break it all down? Because there have been so many more, like,

oh my God moments in this trial this week. So can you break it down for all the listeners? Since not only have you been inside the courtroom, but you also have been watching Chad's reaction to all of this as it's unfolded. So Alice's whole testimony was really heartbreaking the whole time. She said that her husband and her reached out to Chad. She thought they could call him one week after Tammy died. So this is October 26th.

And she called him to say, hey, we want to visit with you. Just make sure you're okay. Can we come over to your condo? And Chad responded, no, I'll come to your place. So he came in the evening. And then that night when he's there, Chad told them, Alice and her husband, that he found the woman he's going to marry and that he met her at a conference in St. George, Utah. And we asked who she was and he wasn't going to tell us at first. And he said, well, I'll tell you later.

Her name was Lori Vallow. And to the best of your recollection, this was around October 26th? Yes. So just seven days after Tammy's passed away? Yeah. Were you surprised to hear that Chad had already found someone else to marry? Absolutely.

Next, Alice talked about how when Lori and Chad came to her house, she said that they both sat on her couch and it was really awkward because they were giggling, being super affectionate, laughing together, almost to the point where she said that her and her husband felt embarrassed.

She said that Lori explained that her husband had died that past December from a heart attack, which we know is not true because Charles was murdered in July of 2019. And then Chad decided to pipe in and say that she had a daughter that had recently passed away. I had the impression that she was an empty nester. And I assumed the daughter was older that had passed, you know, from it.

disease or cancer or something that I assumed she didn't have any other children. And then when she was asked about the marriage and how she knew that, she said that Chad came over to her house with wedding photos from Hawaii, those horrible ones that we've seen so many times. And then Alice said, yes, he was quite excited to show us.

Mind you, again, this is weeks after Tammy died, Alice's friend. The prosecution also asked Alice if Chad came over any other times to their house, and she said, yeah, he did, probably after Lori was arrested. And she said that Chad came over after he moved back to Idaho. She said that she thinks it was her bond, and he asked Alice and her husband if they would put up

the bond for Lori to get out of jail, saying that Chad was crying and he was telling them that it was just killing Lori to be in jail. And she said, you know, we felt really awkward about this. You know, we did not say yes. We told them, look, like, we're really gonna have to think about this.

But also, if you are asking this, then I need to ask you a question. Where are the kids? Because at this point, Lori was arrested for not producing her children at all. So she said, you know, does Lori have another daughter? Because now it says that Tylee is missing. But where you said that she had another daughter that passed. And Chad said that, no, I didn't say that. I never said that. How many daughters does Lori have?

And he said, one. And I said, well, when we met you, you told me she had a daughter that passed away. And he said, no, I didn't. And I said, yes, you did. And then when I asked him about the missing children and he said it was a custody battle. So that's why I asked, how many daughters does she have? And

And then he denied telling me that. And then this probably was the most heartbreaking part of the entire testimony. Alice started crying when she was talking about what happened next. And she asked Chad, you know, what about Tylee? So I asked him, where are the children? And I asked him, where's Tylee? You know, she's a teenager. So I said, doesn't she want a life? And come out and say, I'm the missing girl. I want to...

job and life and a boyfriend. And he just said she didn't like people and she didn't like me. Did something stick out about those statements? He said didn't. So he used the past tense. He did. Now, during the cross-examination of this, there was one juror specifically that looked disgusted.

at Chad. The next witness was Todd Gilbert, Alice's husband. He said that he knew Chad better, saw him maybe one time a week, maybe once or twice a week. Then they asked, okay, well, did

did you know about his beliefs? And he said, yeah, we talked about it a little bit sometimes. And he always thought, you know, well, maybe they happened to him. But he said that he didn't believe Chad's visions. He also talked about a time that Chad came over and he said that Chad came over and told him, I don't know if I should say this, Tammy's life mission will come to an end before her 50th birthday, which...

Tammy died at 49. Then he talked about how after Tammy died, how Chad didn't seem sad and seem more businesslike. He also talked about a time when after Tammy died, he was again talking with Todd and said, oh yeah, you know, I have a girlfriend. Like, just nonchalantly. My wife of

almost 30 years just passed, but I have a girlfriend. And then it gets worse. He went on to say that Tammy's mission on earth was over. So the second half of Chad's life was supposed to be with Lori to help him do his mission. And he threw in that Lori is so beautiful. The next part is really heartbreaking. Again, it's about Tylee and what Chad said to him about that.

And do you recall being present for a conversation regarding the statement Chad had previously made about Lori's daughter? Yes. And what do you recall hearing Chad say? I remember him saying that she didn't really like him too much. And so she would kind of stay away from him. She was like a typical college student.

So then that was pretty much the end of the testimony on Wednesday, and then so moving into Thursday, we started off with Kay Woodcock testifying. During this, Chad looked like he was looking at Kay, and maybe that he was even actually looking at the screen when JJ's picture was up. It was really odd, but I've kind of come to the conclusion at this point that maybe he's just...

I wouldn't know where to look either, so maybe he's just looking because that's what he feels like he should do. It doesn't seem like he's doing anything wrong or bad necessarily. It's just, it's always interesting because it does change witness per witness when he will look at them or if he even does look at them. And so we'll get into that a little later because, spoiler alert, it gets pretty crazy.

So in Kay's testimony, she was talking about Charles, the custody of JJ, how Charles and Lori were married, and how she had access to his emails, how she became the beneficiary of his life insurance policy, and when he was murdered. Now during this, John Pryor objected a few times, and the first couple ones, you know, she was kind of okay, and then the third one, in my opinion, she looked like she was getting really annoyed by this.

So after Charles was murdered and Lori found out that she was no longer the beneficiary of his life insurance policy,

Kay said that Lori sent her a text at the end of July. So remember, he was shot on July 11th. So Lori sent Kay a text basically confronting her that, hey, you know, you're the beneficiary for the life insurance and said, is that why you want JJ? Well, I've got five kids and no money and you just get everything? Question mark. Next, Kay talked about the last FaceTime call she had with JJ. It was on August 10th, 2019.

And with this, she basically talked about how it was very short. And then after that, Lori was extremely evasive. Oftentimes wouldn't even respond to any of Kay's requests to talk with him, see him, anything like that. And prior to this, she had visited with...

在过去的几年里，除了查德的成年子女在《Dateline》的一集节目中，我们并没有听到查德的大家庭的任何消息。然而，本周查德的母亲希拉·戴贝尔和他的嫂子希瑟·戴贝尔出庭作证……这一周对查德·戴贝尔来说真是糟糕透顶。

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[email protected] </context> <raw_text>0 JJ或她和拉里每两个月至少会专门去看JJ一次。在洛里和查尔斯收养JJ后，凯与查尔斯和洛里达成的协议之一是，她将继续以祖母的身份参与JJ的生活。因为记得，她在JJ刚出院并被她监护时就有了他。

凯说，在洛里表现得很回避后，她一直试图联系她。她给她发了电子邮件，发了短信，留了语音邮件，但她从未回复。所以我想问你，你是否曾经联系过执法部门询问JJ的下落？当然。我的意思是，一旦我们知道查尔斯死了，我们就知道他有麻烦了。

我们知道他有麻烦，因为洛里不再想要JJ了。她不想要泰莉，也不想要查尔斯。

接下来，她被问到她是如何得知孩子们在雷克斯堡，或者说洛里在雷克斯堡的。她说她有查尔斯的电子邮件账户和一些东西，因为她曾经帮助他处理一些商业事务。所以有一天她登录查尔斯的电子邮件，看到了一封来自亚马逊的电子邮件。于是她点击了它。当然，那是亚马逊的购买信息。她在11月8日找到了这些信息，实际上是在

洛里和查德此时已经结婚。我搜索了马拉凯特婚戒。实际上有一个是以35美元或36.99美元的价格购买的。我看到搜索了

女性海滩婚纱。我看到她查看了或许购买了两件，我不记得了，一件黄色比基尼，不是比基尼，是一件黄色的连体泳衣。另一个搜索是男性海滩服装，男性轻便亚麻海滩服装，

她查看的是大号的。这是一件白色衬衫和白色裤子，像是在海滩上穿的那种，你知道，亚麻类型的衣服。为什么这些物品引起了你的注意？因为我知道塔米是在10月19日去世的。如果，洛里显然与查德·戴贝尔有关。而且这真是令人震惊，

他们在塔米去世之前就开始寻找婚戒。法官，我要反对。这是推测。凯还说她在寻找JJ，他们问她为什么，检察官问她为什么，她说因为洛里和查德在JJ和泰莉失踪时不回答有关JJ和泰莉的问题。

所以，在她说完这句话后，我的目光立刻转向查德。你在看什么？你的反应是什么？他，所以很多人一直在想，查德在他的电脑上做什么？好吧，他的电脑没有互联网连接，所以我认为它实际上只存有与他审判相关的所有证据。但他，看起来就像是在假装工作。敲打着键盘，就像他，像是很奇怪。

这真的很奇怪。现在，在交叉询问中，事情变得有点火辣。首先，约翰·普赖尔试图说，洛里和亚历克斯参与了查尔斯的谋杀。是这样吗？不，我不知道他们是否是唯一参与他谋杀的人，但确实是的。有趣的是，你强调了搜索是由洛里·瓦洛进行的，对吗？是的。

是的。查德·戴贝尔没有访问洛里·瓦洛账户的权限，对吧？我不知道。对。你不知道查德·戴贝尔是否知道洛里·瓦洛计划购买这些物品，对吗？请再说一遍。好吧，你没有任何具体的知识表明查德·戴贝尔参与了帮助她购买这些物品，对吗？实际上，我想不是，因为这是用查尔斯的信用卡支付的。对。

她是在用他的信用卡购买新的婚礼物品。接下来的证人是希拉·戴贝尔，查德的母亲。当州方宣布希拉·戴贝尔将成为下一个证人并叫她上证人席时，我几乎能听到每个人都在

像不是大声的喘息，因为我们不应该发出噪音，但我能听到周围的确有一种骚动，大家都在说，哦，我的天，她谈到了她如何在爱达荷州福尔斯的德克萨斯州牛排屋与查德和洛里见面，她谈到了洛里说她的丈夫最近因心脏病发作去世，而她说的一个有趣的事情是，洛里说她有一个女儿去世了。

查德在那个电话中告诉你什么？塔米去世了。你在接到那个电话后做了什么？我们立即去了爱达荷。你去查德和塔米的家吗？是的。你见到查德了吗？见到了。你会如何描述他的举止？沮丧。好吧，她刚说她的丈夫最近去世。她有没有说他是怎么死的？心脏病发作。

当洛里说她的丈夫死于心脏病发作时，查德说了什么吗？我不记得有任何具体的提及。好的。洛里或查德有没有说过洛里是否有孩子？她说她有一个去世的女儿。你记得那个女儿多大了吗？她没有说日期。她有没有说过她是否有一个年轻的儿子？没有。

当洛里说她的女儿去世时，查德有没有说过什么你记得的？我不能。没有，我不认为。与艾丽斯·吉尔伯特，查德的邻居所作证的内容并不相同。她说查德说过。但在这种情况下，她说是洛里说的。所以这里有差异。你可以判断谁说了什么。现在在交叉询问中，...

真是太奇怪了，首先约翰·普赖尔就像哦，你知道查德是你的儿子，好吧，你还有其他儿子吗？她开始列举，然后她说马特，他哦，马特在这里，不是吗？

他转过身，几乎指着他的位置。他就坐在观众席旁边的凯·伍德科克旁边。他说，那里穿绿色衬衫的就是他吧？我不知道这有什么意义，老实说。这看起来真的很奇怪。我不知道约翰·普赖尔是否试图让陪审团觉得他

马特在支持查德。我不确定。在此期间，这很奇怪。真的很奇怪。再次强调，希拉在笑，或者微笑，不是笑，但她似乎非常开朗，也许这就是她的个性。也许她一直都是这样。我不知道，但给人的感觉是她觉得约翰·普赖尔很迷人，或者...

我不想用“调情”这个词，因为根本不是那样，但似乎只是一些友好的玩笑。这真的，真的，真的很奇怪。

然后在我看来，所有证人中的轰动者上了证人席。查德的嫂子希瑟·戴贝尔，也就是他的所谓“黑暗”嫂子。她谈到了查德为什么搬到雷克斯堡，他如何通过搬到雷克斯堡来履行他的预言角色。在任何时候，你与他的关系性质发生了变化吗？是的，发生了变化。什么时候发生的变化？

2014年，当他开始谈论末日事件并讨论他为朱莉·罗威出版的一本书时。我们稍后会回到这个话题。但在那时，这段关系是如何变化的？我对他告诉家人和告诉马特的事情感到担忧。我对他所说的内容感到不安。

请你向陪审团详细说明查德告诉你或教导你的那些事情，是什么让你感到担忧的？他表示2015年会发生地震，他在让我们意识到并为即将发生的所有末日事件做好准备，这些事件将在犹他州，特别是盐湖地区造成大量破坏。

他有没有向你解释他为什么相信这些事件会发生？这些事件是朱莉·罗威在一次濒死体验中看到的。因此，他在出版她的书时与她谈论过这些事情。然后他表示他也在视野中看到了这些事情。所以查德是一个向你和你的家人表达他所拥有的这些异象的人？他能看到面纱之外并看到未来的事件。

他有没有向你解释其他让你感到担忧的事情，除了这些教义？在那时，主要就是这些。就是这些末日事件以及它们何时会发生。后来，他有没有向你或你的家人说过其他让你感到担忧的教义或事情？当他告诉我们，他考虑将他的家人搬到雷克斯堡，德克萨斯州。

在2014年，或者15年，无论是什么时候，它开始了。我们实际上与他进行了对话，询问他究竟认为会发生什么。我们进行了相当详细的对话。我想在这里暂停一下，尽你所能回忆一下。你能告诉陪审团那次对话发生在什么时候吗？那次对话是在他们出来的时候。查德、塔米和他们的一些孩子来到雷克斯堡看房子。

马特和我在家里与查德坐在一起。那应该是2015年夏天。那次对话发生了什么？抱歉，直接问他为什么觉得需要做这个决定。他表示他

特别是他所看的房子离我们的家非常近。我们对此感到有些担忧。他告诉我丈夫和我，我们将在这场因犹他州的所有破坏而发生的人群聚集中成为伟大的领袖，我们所居住的土地将对此有所帮助，我们的家将变成像教堂或庙宇那样的地方。他告诉我们这些事情。

他觉得他需要和家人在雷克斯堡，因为教会在盐湖的总部在所有这些破坏发生时将不得不迁移到雷克斯堡。他有没有向你解释他是否认为自己会在这方面扮演任何重要角色？主要只是...

他会在这个人群聚集中帮助他们搭帐篷和一切，他会在这个事业中提供帮助。所以根据他告诉你的内容，他认为搬到雷克斯堡是他履行自己角色的必要之举吗？是的，他在其中有一部分。

你当时相信这些异象或教义吗？不，我不相信。查德起初根本没有看希瑟。看起来他试图忽视她在房间里的存在，因为希瑟是查德最害怕的噩梦。她说查德从来不喜欢她。他实际上曾告诉马特，她的丈夫，在他向希瑟求婚时，不要娶她，他只是觉得这不会成功。

她谈到他们搬到雷克斯堡时说，希瑟，这正在发生。所有的地震都在发生，所有这些事情。她说查德在向他的家人传授他所有的异象和梦境，并说他会带着异象回家，有时塔米会翻翻眼睛，然后她会为此祈祷，发现他是正确的或对的。她还说他所有的孩子都相信他的异象。

她谈到她是如何得知塔米去世的，她说这感觉像是剧本，让她感到非常不安。在这一刻，我在看查德，查德正盯着她，像是恨她。在那一刻，老实说，我在心里想，如果查德有任何能力，任何真正的能力，

我们会在那一刻看到它。如果他能让闪电击中她，他肯定会这样做。所以显然我们知道他的能力不真实，但现在肯定不是。因为如果他能召唤地震，他会在那时就这样做。他对此完全不喜欢。整个时间他在解释时，我觉得这像是剧本。就像他在读什么东西。感觉非常...