58: The Avril Lavigne Replacement Theory | Red Thread
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So

Avril Lavigne laughed at first when she discovered the internet's latest viral joke. A theory had emerged on message boards stating boldly that in truth, she wasn't really who she said she was. Supposedly her fans had theorized that she had long been replaced by a lookalike, a plot by studio executives after she herself had died mysteriously.

She laughed at this crazy idea, an idea so ridiculous that it could never be true in any reality. Yet something gnawed deep inside her. And so, one night, alone in her dimly lit studio, she plunged into a rabbit hole of conspiracies, each claim more absurd than the last, but confoundingly all oddly familiar. As

As time went on, the nervous chuckles subsided and tension flickered under the surface in their absence. She stared at the comparison photos, noting the small differences between her and the person the internet was sure was her. The tilt of her smile, the shade of her eyes, even her own voice. Avril shook her head, pushing back from the desk.

dismissing her paranoia as late night delusion. She reached for her guitar as a babe might reach for the dummy in a moment of discomfort. But as she strummed the familiar chords of complicated, her fingers hesitated as though her own song suddenly felt borrowed or unfamiliar. Her memory shifted uneasily, backdropped by the song that itself described the situation and within moments, immaterialized

Images flooded her mind, cold lights, masked faces and a voice whispering, "Initiate Melissa Protocol." The guitar slipped from her trembling hands as Avril stared at her reflection, realizing that the fans had been right along. Avril had died. She was the clone. And even worse,

She was still married to the lead singer from Nickelback. Yes, but that sounds horrible, I know. But it's okay because the Red Thread is here to dive deep into this conspiracy theory and make sense of it. We're back. No gap in broadcasting, even though we've lost pretty much every host that's ever hosted on this series so far. The exaggerations of our death have been, well, they've been exaggerated. Red Thread dead? Not true.

Red thread, wait, we're just getting red thread started.

Don't leave, please. Don't click away. I know that was bad. It'll get better. It'll get better because I've got my friends, my good friend, well, one of them's such a good friend, in fact, that she's my fiancé, I've got my fiancé Kira here, as well as new permanent host Friendly Geordies. Well, as permanent as he can be until he also leaves me, because everyone in my life leaves me, apparently. Yeah. Yeah.

How's it going, mate? All right, I'll see you guys in two weeks. It is a pleasure to be here for the shortest, it is permanent host.

Yep. Howdy doody to both of you. Yeah, good to see you. Very happy to reign in on what has to be already the dumbest conspiracy that you guys have ever done easily. Have you heard of this one before? No. The Avril Lavigne replacement? No, I haven't. No. All right. What I've heard of this one throughout my whole life. Yeah, I've constantly heard about it. This was like a bedtime story when I was growing up. My mum and dad would sit me down and tell me the story of how Avril Lavigne was replaced. I'd be horrified.

I'm surprised you've never heard of it being such a well maybe not like a internet forum browser but you're definitely like you've existed on the internet for like two decades now oh I've existed on the internet

Much like Jesus, I am in the world, but not of the world. So it's still a foreign concept to you, the internet, even though you make your entire career on it. Honestly, Avril, I am as foreign to the internet as Avril Lavigne is in that 2000 shot that you have there with her hat to the side. I think I know about as much about the internet as she does. Yeah. All right. But would you say that you're a big fan of Avril Lavigne at least?

Um, the first couple of times Sk8er Boi was on the radio, I thought, wow, what is this hip new genre known as punk pop? But after that, you know, like, like every song that is on the radio, it's like, okay, okay, you're overplaying it there.

Oh yeah, Sk8er Boi was very overplayed. That's all I know her from really was Sk8er Boi and Complicated, which is why I referenced it. Was she like a one-hit wonder or I guess a two-hit wonder? Because after that, she just like completely disappeared for me. Well, yes.

No, she definitely wasn't a one-hit wonder. I mean, I think her albums definitely dropped off in sales over the years, but I was saying to you, Jackson, last night that I think her fourth album, if I'm remembering correctly, Best Damn Thing, like, I remember making dance routines to it when I was, like, 11 years old. Oh, my God.

Hell yeah. That's awesome. That album was so big at the time. I never made dance routines do anything. You were ahead of the TikTok generation, Kira. You could have been uploading those and making them millions with your dance routines. That's awesome. Yeah, Kira, is there a crappy... You know that in between? You know how they used to put like a big...

I don't know, like VHS into handy cams and then our generation had teeny little VHSs. Do you have that of you doing this dance? Unfortunately, no. That would be hilarious though. I wish I did. Never filmed anything? What did you do it for? Like talent quest at school or something? No, it was just me and my friend having fun. Yeah, this is just what girls do. I can't believe that. Holy hell. We can't relate to that. Yeah. No. I never recorded myself dancing with friends. But it sounds cool.

That's, oh God, I wish there was a recording of that. It's not too late. I can still get Kira to dance. I'll record it. Yeah, record her just from your best memory doing the routine. Yeah, do you still remember the routine? Please with the sideways hat. Do you still remember the routine for your Sk8er Boi dance or whatever? No, I don't. I wish I did. Well, you're going to have to make up some new choreography with your decades of experience now. Oh, man. Look, here's the other thing that I want to know.

Okay, she had Sk8er Boi and Complicated. I will take Kira's point with great suspicion that she continued to have a career. Yeah, I don't believe that. Yeah, I'll allow it for now. But what I want to know is how the hell is she stealing celebrity gossip magazines? And here's the big conspiracy. Why does she basically look the same as like a 45-year-old woman? You mean when she was 18?

Yeah, she looks pretty much exactly the same as she does there. I actually think it's so in this picture that we've got here for audio listeners, it's a very early photo of Avril Lavigne at the top of the document. The research document is in the description. So you can still go check that out to see the photos and stuff if you are an audio listener. But in the photo, she looks, yeah, she looks 18. But I think it's the eyeliner maybe that makes her look a lot older there.

Oh, okay. So she was playing a trick back then. She was trying to look 40 when she was 18. Well, no, I don't think she was trying to look... What kind of 18-year-old is trying to look 40? 40. Yeah, that's not a good number to aim for. But I think it's more so just that she went heavy on an aesthetic that I think now we perceive as, like, someone trying to look... Like a 40-year-old trying to look younger, almost. You know what I mean? So...

The way that she kind of portrays it. She's met in the middle. Yeah. She's met in the middle. Yeah. Okay, so she's been trying to look 30 her entire life. Yeah, and now she's older, so it's actually working out well for her these days, I guess, now that she's 40 herself. Kira, Kira, please, please. Like, I know that you have to go soon, but please do that dance routine and upload it for this episode. Yeah, before you leave, you have to get up and do a dance routine. It would be so good.

Or at the very least, at the very least, just tack it on to this episode. This is a bonus for the fans. Luckily, she's going to- Do you still talk to your friend? No. Heartbreak City. You've got to reforge that friendship. You've got to reforge that friendship. Get back in touch. Just send a cold message out of the blue saying, hey, remember the Avril Lavigne dance? Let's bring it back.

I'm ready. The world's ready. Yes. So Avril Lavigne, she was born in Canada, the great North, in 1984. She first signed a two-album record deal at the age of 16 with Arista Records. That's super young. Also, immediately a two-year deal or a two-album deal. That doesn't sound normal. She must have been really good, Kirra.

So they heard Sk8er Boi and they were like we need this woman Two albums We didn't hear any song Well Jordan and I didn't hear any songs after that basically After Sk8er Boi Since then she has since released seven albums in total The latest being Love Sucks in 2022 Can you believe that? That's the real conspiracy Why is she still releasing stuff that I'm not hearing? What is up with that?

Is she an industry plant? Seven albums, the latest being Love Sucks in 2022. Love Sucks, by the way, is spelled S-U-X for sucks. I feel like she could have got away with that in the early 2000s, but that's not a good look for a 45-year-old woman.

Well, yeah, she's still repping it, isn't she? She's... Sticking with the aesthetic. Although, even that... I guess. I feel like that's not, like, punk. Whenever I think of Avril Lavigne, I think of the, you know, heavy eyeliner, tomboy kind of aesthetic, you know, punk. Punk look. Love Sucks doesn't sound like a punk aesthetic to me. It sounds like pop.

Interesting you say that. That is Avril Lavigne in a nutshell, though, isn't it? Yeah, maybe I'm wrong. The barest aesthetic of punk. Yeah, true. Safe punk. Safe punk. Safe punk! Oh, I actually remember growing up, one of my mates had a strong, strong attraction to Avril Lavigne. Loved her. Massive crush on her.

Yeah, those guys existed. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because she, I guess she was alternative and not like all the other girls. But yeah, not me.

Skaterboy school though I'll give it that So she was a big figure in female pop punk In the early 2000s And she is a highly decorated artist Winning many awards and also gaining 8 Grammy nominations I noticed nominations there and not wins So she's only been nominated Kira?

Yes, she's only been nominated, but still, to be nominated is a big deal. No, no, no. Everyone gets nominated. That's a freebie. It wins. I don't know. Have we? No, it's not. Look, getting a Grammy, I'd be kind of almost insulted, frankly. Why are you doing this to me? What have I done? What have I done to deserve this great, prestigious award?

She's also the recipient of a Guinness World Record. See, that's way more impressive. Guinness World Record? 100%. Way more impressive than Grammys. Easily. She's the recipient of a Guinness World Record for being the youngest female solo artist to top the UK album chart with her debut album, Let Go. Okay, cool. Also kind of sad. I always hate reading stuff like that where people peak with the very first thing that they do and then the rest of their career is just trying to reach that same height. That always makes me really sad.

Yeah. No one resonates with that idea? I guess it hits me harder because I've experienced that to a lesser degree. I don't know, man. It's just, look, that is good.

going to be your career if you are a 16 year old teen star yeah actually that is true it's not going up from there yeah yeah very where can it go seriously i mean even even things like one direction justin bieber for example all those kinds of like child stars they've they've they've got their moment and then after that is just them desperately trying to either retain it or recapture it and it just never pans out it's like a lightning in the bottle situation

No, no, no. There's just a progression of photos in gossip magazines and then slowly morphing into crackheads. Yeah, you're bringing up a lot of gossip magazines. You just have a subscription to Teen Girl Vogue or something? What are you- I don't know. Actually, you know why? You know why? Why? We were just going through the other day all the teen starlets and where are they now with my girlfriend? And we just looked at every last one of them and we were like, oh my God.

They're uglier than us now. What the hell happened? Well, I'll tell you what happened. It got really bad. Yeah, teen stardom. That's what it does. Teen stardom happened, of course. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It always happens. Yeah, it is rough. While her newer music hasn't really hit the charts the same as her older stuff...

She is still a widely recognized artist to this day, but she was absolutely enormous during the early 2000s with hits like, yes, we've talked about him already, Sk8er Boi, that's the one that goes, he was a skater boy. No, I fucked that up immediately. He was a skater boy. He said, see you later, boy. No, girl.

Wait, what the fuck is it? No, I think it was both boy. Okay. Yeah, yeah, you're right. She wrote boy with boy. He was a skater boy. She said, see you later, boy. He wasn't good enough for her. And then complicated was, why you gotta make things so complicated? Yeah, bangers. Certified bangers. Close enough. Did I fuck that one up too? Was there a few more boys in that one as well or something?

More boys. More boys. Why do you have to go and make things so complicated? There we go. We should make this a game show where we got to finish the lyrics. Yeah. That lasted a bit, eh? Yeah. So great songs. Very overplayed as all hits are, especially in the early 2000s. Heard them a bunch, but whatever. She killed it.

Great musician at those early stages. But we're not here to, you know, glaze Avril Lavigne. We're here to talk about why she was replaced or if she was even replaced in the first place. The theory goes that she was replaced by a body double, essentially, after her mysterious death.

Where and why did this theory start, though? So the theory of Avril Lavigne being replaced by her body double can be traced back to 2011 from a blog post on a website called Avril Esther Morta, which is translated from Portuguese, I think, to Avril is dead.

That's a pretty hardcore fan site. Avril is dead. It is. And it's very 2011, isn't it? Yeah. I mean, that goes pretty hard. That's more punk than Avril Lavigne was. Avril Estamora? That sounds awesome. She should have called herself that. That's a great band name.

But rumors and talks of the conspiracy theory have been around for much longer before as it spread by word of mouth, therefore making it difficult to track where and when it actually started. Avril also isn't the first celebrity to be accused of being replaced. Another example is Paul McCartney, with many claiming that he died in a car accident and was then replaced. This theory goes back to 1969. Have you heard that theory?

Oh, yeah. Yeah, that's a big one. Have you guys? Yeah, yeah, yeah, of course. I mean, look, honestly, maybe it's just because there's so many photos of Paul McCartney in an era where they're all grainy. And so basically the best photo on earth looks like a UFO photo. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I think it's also the fact that...

1969 would have been a way harder time to keep track of celebrities, maybe. So he would just go silent for maybe a year or so and then come out with a completely different look and it would have been baffling to people, maybe. I need to reinvestigate that claim. Maybe we'll do a follow-up in the future on Paul McCartney and if he was replaced. But I remember the general consensus online being people were more readily-

They were more able to believe that Paul McCartney was replaced. There's perhaps more evidence behind that one than there is for the Avril Lavigne is replaced theory. So this is kind of like an offshoot of Paul McCartney replaced theory. There's layers to this. All these celebrities are being replaced. I think that's how you know you've made it. I think this is how you know you've made it in Hollywood, as if you've got theories about your replacement out there, maybe. Yeah.

Yeah, surely. That's what I was thinking. But this is the whole thing. I mean, no offense to Avril. She's accomplished a lot, but she's no Paul McCartney, is she? How dare you? I mean, if Paul McCartney died and I was one of those execs with the ponytail, I'd try to chuck a wig on someone for sure. Like a little Saddam Hussein double, easily.

I'd at least give it a go. This is what I always think about with the Avril Lavigne replacement theory in particular. I was going to talk about this later, but I may as well talk about it now. I don't understand why the studio executives would do that with Avril Lavigne. Especially this early in her career where she had only just released one or two albums max. I can understand it in the Michael Jackson route where he dies so you want to continue the...

The discography sales or whatever, like you want to keep it going because he's your money machine, basically. But Avril Lavigne, what's the benefit in that? Like interest would have been lost immediately. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. At the time she was massive. Like, I don't think, I don't think we can quite comprehend like how big she was at the time. As big as Paul McCartney and Michael Jackson.

No, but it was like sort of a market she was tapping into for pop punk girls and it was very successful.

Wouldn't, wouldn't, but okay. If the theory is true, wouldn't it have been more successful to just come out and say this tragic, uh, star child or this star child tragically died, uh, by all the copies of her albums now while they last. Basically we're having a funeral sale, a fire sale. We got to get rid of all these albums. They got to go. Like, I feel like that would probably be more successful than training a body double to get close to seeing like, uh, or whatever. Yeah.

I don't know. I don't buy the logic behind it. But as to why this may be immediately believable to some, many celebrities do hire body doubles, not to replace them like clones, but more so to try to fend off paparazzi or photos. On top of that, Avril Lavigne was a very young and likely overwhelmed person who was thrust into this type of life from an early age.

And in the song she was releasing around that time, there are messages suggesting she may have been struggling with some sort of depression or anxiety. I guess the idea there or the reason why this is talked about is because the theory that she would have ended her own life and then been replaced. Kira, is that correct? That she was sad? Okay. Yes. All right. So we have some lyrics here as well. It was like, which have been highlighted from the blog post.

Avril Estemota, which kind of attests to her mind frame at the time. So, Jordan, you're our expert lyric analysis person here on the show. That's why I brought you along, obviously, because you're good at digging deep into the lyrics to figure out the true meaning behind things. Do you mind reading these two songs, the song lyrics? No, I don't. And also, I'm starting to believe that the body double thing is real because I didn't know that she made this song.

That was quick. You know this song? I'm convinced. I don't know any of these songs. I think I know this song. Is this the song that says, like, the chorus is, it's a jam code night. Is that that one? Yes. Yes. Yes, it is. There you go. I'm looking it up. Now, without further ado, let me read the lyrics. Well, no. Now that I know you know the song, you're going to sing it, right? Oh, okay.

I'm standing under a bridge. Oh, my God, I'm so off key. Yes, that's the one. I'm waiting in the dark. I thought that you'd be here right now. And I'm looking for a place. I'm searching for a face. Hang on. And then it just changes to this point. It's like, no, I don't know this part of the song. Is there anyone here I know because nothing's going right and everything's a mess and no one likes to be alone?

It was kind of more depressing when you started just speaking that out loud instead of singing it, to be honest. Yeah, I'm trying to fit it in the song. I can't sing that part. Are they two different parts? It's two separate points in the song. That's probably why you got a bit confused. Yeah, that's what I'm thinking. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Wow. So you are an Avril Lavigne superfan. That's cool. I've never heard this song, I don't think. Yeah, wow. You never heard this? I don't think so. Maybe if I looked it up, it'll winter soldier me and I'll remember it.

It's like an activation code. I do think you would know this song if you play it. It's big. Okay. Just by the lyrics though, no. What triggered you? You like suddenly realized that you knew this song. Was it just the song title? I'm standing on a bridge. That was it. That's all I can remember from that.

Okay, so the reason this has been analyzed, I guess, is because it speaks of a girl who clearly is going through it emotionally. But really, that's pretty much every punk song from the early 2000s with edginess, right? Everyone was singing about stuff like this.

Yeah, it's all wrist-cutty stuff, isn't it? Yeah, yeah, exactly. It's like sad close-up shots of them crying during the video and things like that. What the hell is that all about? Every song is just trying to depress teenagers, huh? Well, depressed teenagers make for the best consumers, you see. All right, next one. Anything But Ordinary. Does this one activate anything in you? You remember this one? No. Kira, should I know it?

Uh, no, because I couldn't remember it either. Sometimes I get so weird. I even freak myself out. Damn. That is weird. I laugh myself to sleep. What a psycho. She's the Joker. What is this?

It's my lullaby. Sometimes I drive so fast just to feel the danger. I want to scream. It makes me feel alive. All right, well, she's just a bad neighbor. If I was hearing laughter all night, well, at 3 a.m., and then she's peeling out of the neighborhood, driving around just to feel a sense of danger, she's a bad neighbor, a bad friend. Oh, yeah, I'd be complaining to the cops a lot. Yeah, doing burnouts and stuff, and I'm like, oh, well, that's just Avril Lavigne. She laughs all night.

which she does it's so scary it's that like I'm going to call it pseudo edgy like try hard edgy I guess try hard edgy you reckon yeah yeah it's like no you don't actually laugh yourself to sleep what are you saying what are you saying yeah yeah no she's lying she's definitely lying there's no way I feel like she has to herself like three years later she'd look back at those lyrics and cringe herself

I think she has said in an interview that she does. She looks back and she goes, did I say that? Did I write that? That's going to suck. That's going to suck. To be fair, she was 16. It's not good. We'd all cringe. Yeah, I'm so fortunate. There's no such thing as a cool 16-year-old. Oh, I didn't think about this. I've been doing the official podcast since I was like 18. There is definitely shit out there that I've said that I would look back on right now and cringe hard.

Knowing that there's an archive of that out there. Oh, yeah. You'd have a lot of anything but ordinaries, for sure. Oh, no. I mean, we all would, though. We all would. Yeah. You know what? No, no. I'll say this. I'll say this. My greatest work was when I was 18. And it's all been downhill from there. Are you sure? I reckon I've said cringy shit in the last week. Huh? Well, yeah, yeah. I mean, we're still guilty of saying cringy shit. Absolutely. Yeah. It's like Avril. Oh, my God. Yeah. Dropped the ball on one person.

paragraph of the song every sentence of our lives is cringe cringe incarnate no but I mean it hits different when you look back at yourself from like 10 years ago pretty much you're looking through the lens of like self-criticism and everything becomes cringe then I think

It's very hard not to look at yourself. But do you get this every now and then where you go look back at something from 10 years ago and you think, hey, I wish much better than what I'm doing now. No, I think that's sad. What's wrong with you? I don't know. You know what I think it is? Honestly, I think it's just this. I think it's just like when you're 18, you say way dumber things. And that is funny.

It's just always going to be funny in a different way. So you're saying you're too intellectual now that it's a criticism against you. You're too smart. Too smart. You're too smart to be funny. Too smart. You've traded comedy for intelligence. Too much of a genius. Sorry. Yeah. They slipped away. Is that a big one? What?

Is Slipped Away a big song? Oh, the next one, right. Kira, you are the official Avril Lavigne historian here now. Chronologist. Because you did a dance routine to maybe one of her songs. I definitely did, and it was to Girlfriend, if anyone else loved that song as a young teen. But Slipped Away, no. Wait, is that that I can be your girlfriend, you can get a new one? Is that that one? Yep, that's the one. What the fuck? You're a super fan. Dude, she did heaps. You're a super fan.

I think I'm just a super fan of commercial radio. This is super impressive. I didn't realize you did so many. Oh, my God. There you go. Yeah, Girlfriend was a good song. Next, we're going to find out you also did a dance routine to Girlfriend. That's how you know. Oh, I wouldn't be surprised.

So Slipped Away, not a big song. No. So Slipped Away, with the next stop point, it was an honour, like the song was written in honour of her grandfather that passed away in 2003. So it wasn't like released as a single. But he's heard of it. Oh, no, you've heard of Girlfriend of Mine, which was not written about her grandfather. Pfft.

Alright, Reid slipped away. Let's see these lyrics. Let's get an insight into her mindset at the time she lost her grandfather. This sounds fun. I've had my wake up. Won't you wake up? Jesus. Christ sakes, what are you, a baby, dear? I keep asking why. I keep asking why. And I can't take it. It wasn't fake it. Just it. What?!

That's not how you rhyme. Imagine looking back at the song that you wrote about your grandfather and cringing. Yeah, that's going to be sad. Anyway, that's brutal. You can just redo it, though. She had a go. I'm sure her grandfather was looking up at heaven thinking, like, that's very sweet, Avril. It sucks, but it's very sweet. It happened. You pass by. Now you're gone. Now you're gone. There you go. Jesus. She's good. How much wrist?

Somewhere I can't bring you back. Now you're gone. Now you're gone. There you go. There you go. Somewhere you're not coming back. Really hovering this home that he's not coming back. Are we suggesting that she topped herself because her grandfather died? Yes. So the theory is that she was so sad after her grandfather's death that then she killed her. She died.

She ended her own life, and then the studio executives replaced her with a body double to continue the immense profits that they were making off of her grandfather's death songs. You think her grandfather was looking up from up in heaven going, yeah, it was an alright song, but I preferred Sk8er Boi. I want to hear more Sk8er Boi. Stop singing sad songs, Avril.

Yeah, I think grandfather was just sort of duly entertaining it. That's what would have happened. He was a good grandfather, clearly. If you're going to be so affected by your grandfather's passing that you write a song like this, clearly he was a great man who deserved monuments to be made out of him. Monuments.

No, but yeah, so many Avril Lavigne songs. Why is this really included? Just so that people know that she was really sad before she died, in quotation marks, Kira? Yeah, so with the theory, one of the big things is the reason why she...

is suggested to have taken her own life is the immense pressure of fame and stuff she was feeling at the time, but also her grandfather passing away. And this song tells of how sad she felt and the emotional toll it took on her. Okay, so people also think that in 2002, before she took her own life, they say that she took her own life in 2003, by the way, which was around the time that her grandfather passed away.

I think they only make that connection because that was the year that her grandfather passed away. But people also think that in 2002, before she took her own life, while Avril was struggling, her management hired a body double to fill in on the public appearances while Avril wanted to avoid them. The name of this supposed body double is Melissa Vandella. Interesting. Really? They got a name. Yeah, they've got everything. Melissa Vandella. Um...

It's the Vandella effect. Damn, so it is. I'll tell you this too as well. Melissa Vandella is a way more punk name than Avril Lavigne. No, it's not. Melissa is not a punk name. What are you talking about? You don't think? No way. Avril is way more punk than Melissa.

But the Vandella. Yeah, she sounds- And also the fact that it rhymes well. That's a way cooler stage name. Melissa Vandella sounds like an aristocrat or something. You know, some kind of courtly wife of some lord somewhere. Melissa Vandella. That's what you think of. Yeah, Melissa- Like a 1600s wife that's been plumped up from duck goose fat. Yeah, exactly. Or maybe the wife of Dracula or something.

Really? Yes. That's so weird. I think of teen pop sensation immediately. Wait, just for Melissa, maybe? I can kind of see your take on that if you're just talking about Melissa specifically, because that is a very teen idol kind of name. That is a teen idol name. But Vandella? Vandella is the one in contention. Yes. I push absolutely for that, to me.

If a band member in Good Charlotte wasn't at some point briefly married to someone called Melissa Vandella, I'd be very surprised. Can we get the researchers to find out who Good Charlotte is married to? Yeah, and also who Good Charlotte is. I couldn't name a single one in the band. All right, weigh down on this, Kira. What do you reckon? What do you reckon? What does Melissa Vandella spring in your mind? Whose side are you on?

You don't have to be on a side. You can have your own. No, I'm on Jackson's side. There we go. Yeah, okay. All right. Yeah, just stick with you, man. That's fine. This, I couldn't remember. So one of the guys who is good Charlotte is actually married to Cameron Diaz.

Hey, look at you. And the other one is Nicole Richie. Yeah. I was like, oh, I remember, but I can't remember. So just a little fun fact for everyone. And another one's married to Nicole Richie. That is so funny because, like, man, that would have been the peak of Hollywood stardom in specifically 2004. This show is turning into a gossip rag. It's cool. I like it. It brings back fun memories of, you know, when-

Your feed wasn't in endlessly inundated with us. It's just like,

some dude that vaguely reminds you of yourself. I liked it back then when you were this, I know I keep bringing up celebrity gossip magazines, but I just really liked them. I just, I liked that period where you could, there was like these unattainable gods that you could look up at. Yeah. Okay. Fair. And you just sit there and be like Avril Lavigne, despite her incredibly cringy repertoire of lyrics is clearly better than me. Well, those unattainable gods still exist in the form of Twitch streamers. Yeah.

You can still look up to them. They're doing great things out there. I know. So when Avril supposedly passed away, she was at the height of her career and no doubt bringing in a lot of money for her management and record company. So instead of letting her rest in peace, they trained Melissa up to take her place.

Surely Melissa, would Melissa have felt weird about this? Like, she's going to live as Avril Lavigne for the next, I don't know, 40 years of her life, maybe, until people forget. Her granddad's dead. Her dad isn't. So she has to just go to family events. Hey, dad. Yeah. Your voice and your face is completely different. Yeah, yeah. I got a nose jab. No, you're clearly Melissa. We've already met you before with Avril.

Yeah, she still had like so many different connections and stuff. It wasn't like she was some vagrant that had no connections in her life before that. She wasn't some like petri dish creature that they grew in a lab. She did know people. Well, actually, the music industry is exactly like that. They create things from nothing.

I suppose you're right. Like, look, in a very metaphorical sense, sure. But I still stand by she had a dad. It sounds like you're crying right now. She had a dad. It's such a hilarious thought now that I think about it. I don't know, chucking a wig on some random chick that's probably a little bit fatter or whatever.

And trying to make everyone believe that that's Avril Lavigne. Yes. Including her family. Well, I guess people who believe the theory would then throw back that the family members would have been on board with it, or maybe. Yeah, that is true. That is true? Yeah. Okay. That is what they say? Yeah. That the family knew, and they just told the family not to say that Avril was dead. No, they were threatened by big music executives.

I don't think they would have been paid off I think it's more like they would have been threatened by the music executives don't get in our way

Alright, so what is the evidence? That's a very good question. Yes. That's probably the most pertinent question when it comes to the idea that someone has been replaced. So let's start with evidence point number one, which is her first albums and the immediate tone shift. So let's start with the second album released, the one supposedly that came after her death, which was called Under My Skin. On the cover...

Her name is written in black, a mourning to the old Avril, and the title under my skin is written in red, or the color of blood. Oh my god. This is so dumb. I mean, yes, I guess. Open mind, everyone. Open mind. Oh yeah, gotta go with open mind, open mind. This happened.

There is also a big red X on her jacket, and some have speculated this to mean that Avril Lavigne died and is buried under a cross. Okay.

Yeah, well, you know, it's more plausible than the fact that like, don't you see they use the color black? Yeah. Something not often used in black and white. Yeah, this was the first album that had a title in black, I guess, with the subtitle in red. I mean, it's the aesthetic. It's punk or whatever or grunge. It's like what she's going for.

But no, of course this means that she's dead immediately. There was a bit of a shift from the first album to the second. It was described as being a bit more moody, angsty and dark. This was reflected in some of the songs too. Wait, but was the first album the one with her grandfather's death and stuff? The death song? Because that was already pretty dark. So that's an interesting point. This album...

is the one with the song for her grandfather. So I've seen like some speculation that the album was already sort of in recording and being made. And then it was finished off after her death. Okay. So, Nobody's Home, you know that song? Read through it. Do I? Wait, you actually do know it? All right.

Oh, my God. Jesus, this is sick. You're right. This is a combination of, you know, nice conspiracy theories and that really lame show that used to be on Channel 10, Don't Forget the Lyrics, isn't it? It's pretty cool. Well, I couldn't tell you why she felt that way. She felt it every day, and I couldn't help her. I just watched her maid.

What? The same mistakes again and again. And she wants to go home, but nobody's home. That's where she lies, broken inside. That is quite scary thinking about that, really. That there's just a rotting corpse of Avril Lavigne hidden in the house somewhere. Well, that's depressing. Yeah. Real quick, real quick, Jordan, just to interrupt you. Kira has to leave right now. She's got a session at the gym that she couldn't move to.

So goodbye. Yeah, goodbye. Goodbye, Kira. Thank you for joining us. We'll see you next week. See you, Kira. Bye-bye. Bye. All right, so continue. With no place to go to dry her eyes broken inside and her feelings she hides, her dreams she can't find, she's losing her mind, she's falling behind, she can't find her place, she's losing her faith, she's fallen from grace.

You know what must have come online then? Those rap thesauruses She's getting much better at rhyming She's definitely better To go from boy to boy, there's words that aren't the same Yeah, she's making progress She's improving as an artist Which could only mean that Melissa was taking over songwriting duties at this point

Clearly someone more capable was at the pen now. Yeah. There's no other explanation. It can't possibly be that she's no longer literally a child. I mean, she's still a child at this point. Is she? Yeah, she's probably like 18, 19. 17 at this point. Yeah, yeah, yeah. She's still a child. No, if she's 18, she's old enough to die in a war. So she's old enough to write good lyrics. Of course.

And also she's done it. Well, maybe she's done it. Sorry, I've forgotten the whole point of this podcast. Then it was together. Something just isn't right. I can feel it inside. The truth isn't far behind me. You can't deny. When I turn the lights out, when I close my eyes, reality overcomes me. I'm living a lie. Wait a second. That is convincing. Yeah, that one-

Out of a bunch of stuff that really doesn't seem to have anything to do with what we're talking about. This one's compelling. If you just zoom in on that one sentence. I'm living a lie. Hmm. I can feel it inside. What lie? Yeah.

Her grandfather's still alive. God, now I do want to listen to those podcasts just hoping that somebody just analyzes the Together lyrics with her and be like, explain that. Yeah, what does this mean? I'm not remotely interested in it. Just that one tiny sentence. Yeah, why isn't anyone asking her what the lie was? Even if it's not Melissa related, what lie was she living?

I'm curious about that. She'll have some kind of cover story, I'm sure. Yeah, it's like she didn't truly love her cute boyfriend or whatever at the time, maybe. She'll say something like that. But look, the point is, while she's explaining it, just lunge at her and try and rip her wig off. Wouldn't it be incredible if she's still living the lie? It's still Melissa. Yeah. I mean, what is she going to do? She can't not live the lie anymore. Otherwise, Avril's dead.

I mean, in this world, Avril is dead. My happy ending, the next one, my happy ending, which can only be a good thing. Yeah, that's a pretty positive title, right? Happy endings. People like those. People go to special places to receive happy endings. Yeah, yeah, that's true. It's got to be a positive song. Let's hear it.

Jesus, if this is about her trip to Thailand. All right, let's talk this over. It's not like we're dead. Was it something I did? Was it something you said? Don't leave me hanging. In a city so dead. Melissa. In a city so dead, held up so high on such a breakable thread. So this is Melissa's. Melissa here is alluding to Avril Lavigne having hung herself. Interesting.

Wow. That's deep. Yeah, she's not making it that cryptic in that one, is she? It's even underlined in this document here to place a lot of emphasis on the fact that she was left hanging. It's pretty straightforward. I'm a believer now from these song lyrics. Clearly something happened here. Avril Lavigne died and Melissa took over and she was a way better lyricist than Avril Lavigne originally was.

There is something fun about analyzing lyrics, isn't there? I fully understand why people are totally into the idea that Tupac's not dead. Oh, we have to do an episode on that in the future. I think that's such an enormous wealth. Yeah, I mean, if you thought this one was dumb, get ready. I mean, this was kind of...

I think Mac's dumb. This is as dumb as it can get. Which is good. This is what I wanted for our first... Because, I don't know, last week's episode was a very sad episode where we were analyzing like a...

orphanage over in South Korea who there was a rumor or not really a rumor it's confirmed a lot of like children died there and were abused there and to go from that to this is such tonal whiplash it's like extreme isn't it it's just your classic switch on channel 7 news for instance where they go from a triple homicide to switching gears now the world hot dog championship has broken the record yet again but you need those moments you need those moments to

to reset yourself i think before the next time we start talking about that triple homicide yeah look i'm a big fan honestly the dumber the better for me oh 100 i really like the stupid ones i don't like thinking about i don't yeah i don't like watching korean movies let alone knowing about korean tragedies korean movies are great what are you talking about paris is just all so sad all of them

No one is able to- Jesus, they're able to whiplash you, aren't they? They can go from a very funny scene to a very tragic one like that. Even a zombie movie. How weird is that? Every time Americans die in a zombie movie, I kind of just sit there passively eating Skittles, you know? I don't care. Yeah, you clap. You try to clap. They're annoying most of the time. But then in a Korean zombie movie, you're sitting there all the time being like, oh, no, not Min-Soo. No.

No. Make you empathize with them. I hate it. I hate empathizing with people. It's weakness. Isn't it? Yeah, let us know. Let us know if you prefer the goofier topics or the broader conspiracies like that. We got enough time to tackle whatever you want, really. So let us know. So yeah, happy ending. She's clearly alluding to having committed Avril Lavigne having committed here.

with the hanging and stuff. There are also some strange images that appear in the beginning of the Nobody's Home music video too. At the three second mark, a quick series of images play, flashing across the screen, and these mysterious symbols have been decoded. First, there is mirrored text that reads, Start sound 35. The fact that it's mirrored could refer to Melissa now being a mirror of the old original Avril Lavigne.

yes it could sure it's like it's like whenever you see these conspiracy theories uh and they add all this evidence you know that they've gone in there with this preconceived notion that this conspiracy theory is true so they make all the puzzle pieces yes yes which i then think that they could get away with it just because they add things like may have i say may have it makes more sense

But no, yeah, like you see that a lot in conspiracy theories. It's incredibly obvious here that this is stupid, but in other more believable conspiracy theories, they definitely do that a lot as well, where they go on with this preconceived confirmation bias and then make the evidence fit around it. So you've got to be careful of that when you're analyzing actual conspiracy theories. Then three separate slides in these flashing images say A plus D.

Could it mean Avril plus death? Could it? Could it? Well, wait, if we look up who she was dating at the time, her pop boy boyfriend at the time was probably a guy with his name starting with D, right? Avril? Yeah, almost certainly. You're so right. But that couldn't, it has to be death.

Avril yeah her first her first boyfriend or her first husband was Derek Wibley from Sum 41 so his name starts with a D I don't know when they were dating but she was dating someone from Sum 41 yeah she's clearly capable of dating guys with a name that starts with D Derek yeah I know like they do exist yeah guys but also it could mean Avril plus death who knows uh yeah what's more believable really

Obviously the death one, but we will continue on. So the story in the video also features two characters, and both are played by Avril Lavigne herself. One character seems to be a struggling and homeless musician. She has a strained relationship with her family, and throughout the song falls deeper into depression. At one point, she even begins to sing to herself in the mirror, which the theory references as singing to her double.

The other character, again played by Avril as well, performs her parts of the song with a small orchestra and is dressed in all black as if she's performing at a funeral. At the end of the song, the final shot of the video is of the homeless character shedding a single tear. So wait, which was Avril Lavigne, the homeless character? I'm confused here. No, the homeless character is sad because he knows the truth.

Well, it's a she. Avril's playing the homeless character. Oh, crap. Okay, sorry. Yeah, all right. What? And also, is this just going to be the recurring theme? It seems like over 50% of the evidence now is Avril has used black in periods of her career. She was sad at some point, which means she must have committed...

At the height of her success. Who commits because their grandpa died? Well, he could have been a great guy. He could have been a great guy, but he was also a grandpa. He's an old man. Yeah, you gotta expect that at some point, right? Yeah.

It's not like being like an Egyptian queen pharaoh or something. You can go on. No. Yeah. I was just going to say no. Counterpoint. Yeah, all right. All right. Okay. I like how that's definitely the reason, too. That's as much effort as they're putting into this evidence. This is just no black. She's wearing black. This picture's upside down. That was a big one.

Well, yeah, all these pictures from the beginning of this video are manipulated in such a way where they're slightly off. So there must be a conspiracy involved. Surely. And what's funny about all these different things where people claim a music video is hiding the truth, this had to go through an art studio or a production company. Do you think that they were sent the directive from Melissa saying, yo, can you place...

A plus D at the start of this music video for me to just hint towards the fact that Avril loved death and wanted to die and that I'm really Avril Lavigne. Yeah, they asked why and then she just wrote back, no follow-up questions, please. Avril Lavigne, bitch. Don't ask questions of me. I would love to know. Hopefully, we have some

quotes after this of Avril Lavigne fervently denying the allegations because if she is that would make me believe it yeah if she comes out and she comes out she's like quite upset about it so her silence her silence is the only thing preventing you from believing this currently

Look, honestly, even if she was silent, I'd probably say like, silence is deafening. You can't win. You should have made a statement. Yeah, it's always the same, isn't it? You can't win. Yeah, same with like apologies. Whenever like people are like, you know, cancelling someone online, they're always like, if only he said sorry, I might be able to forgive him. And then he comes out with a, you know, apology video and he's like, they're like, apology wasn't good enough. Crucify him. Every time. Every time. Every time.

Which is fair. So weird, isn't it? Also, on top of that, I think that probably the best thing to do is just never apologize. Well, no. Probably not. No? You reckon apologize? No, I mean in the sense that it doesn't benefit you, really. I think in the cases of the cancellations, when people have done really fucked up shit, I think the apology should be...

to the people affected, like reach out to those that you've wronged privately and try to reconcile and apologize to them sincerely while making positive changes or whatever. But like really when you apologize to your audience or you apologize to the public, the only message that sends across is you're more concerned about your career, right? Than any kind of

Responsibility for yourself I think so and it seems to always attract The worst of the worst In terms of chronically online psychos Well that too They seem to just make the whole situation For you much Much worse As soon as the apology comes out They also make it all about themselves as well I feel like the focus Shifts from whatever victim they may be To themselves like they've been the ones slighted

Oh, yeah, yeah, there's always that, isn't there? It's always that. It's always one sentence of, I'm sorry for these victims and what I have done, and then 20 minutes of, this has really affected me and my family. Yeah, I just don't see why. I mean, I understand when you're under that kind of pressure, you make dumb decisions, but it doesn't really benefit anyone. No.

What's this at 3.15? Dude, 3.15 is such a... It's always something to do with biblical conspiracy, isn't it? Yeah, so at 3.15... Well, it sounds like a Bible verse. I feel like if we look that up in the Bible, it's going to be, and Melissa shall rise again or something like that. At 3.15 in the song, another cryptic message appears in the video. It says...

And this is quoted, X Avril 2004 X. Again, the use of X and then her name and the year. People assume that this is a memoriam to Avril Lavigne's death in 2004. I thought it was 2003 when she died. I thought earlier in the document it said 2003. Yeah, it says she took her own life. It says up above in the document she took her own life in 2003.

Oh, maybe she died in 2003 and her private Illuminati funeral was held in 2004, maybe. I don't know.

Okay, so there is contention of when exactly she died, but all we know for a fact is that she did die. Yeah, can the conspiracy nutters tidy up that little plot point for me? Plot point. That is actually, it's almost a rhetorical question, isn't it? Can they? So Avril also had a friend and musician, Evan Tobbenfeld.

who joined her backing band in 2002 and helped write songs for her second album. But he left the band in September 2004. This was seen as an odd career choice, given that they were quite successful at the time and he and Avril were friends. So the theory there is that Evan discovered that she wasn't actually Avril Lavigne anymore and she'd been replaced by Melissa. So he decided to leave the band.

Right, and he was the only one upset about this replacement, not the family. And also, he was upset enough to leave, but not release the information that she had been replaced by a clone.

Well, yes, no, as we already established, and Jackson, I should expect better from you, frankly. You're the one that closed this blue pole definitively. Big music is going to go out and kill anyone that speaks up about this. Yeah, but then why would they let him quit?

Why would they let him quit? Yeah. Because he's a nobody. Who cares about him? Oh, it's easy. It's not the main picture. I feel like they keep him in the band so that they have more control over him. He's more in their circle. If they let him fly to the wind or whatever, then he's got at least the chance of telling people, I feel like. Yeah, so Evan Tobinfield and Avril Lavigne were close friends. Evan released a song in 2011 featuring Avril, which I guess...

Would mean Melissa. Titled, The Best Years of Our Lives. The song features strange lyrics pertaining back to when he left the band. And these lyrics go, We had the best years of our lives, but you and I would never be the same. September took me by surprise, and I was left to watch the seasons change. And remember, he left the band in September of 2004.

There's something took him by surprise in 2004 that I assume made him leave. And also the line preceding that was, but you and I would never be the same. Could this mean? Avril Lavigne would never be the same because she was in fact, Melissa. Hmm. Yeah, I guess. Yeah. But then she, but then he performs with Melissa in 2011 on that song as well. That's a strange thing. All right. Yeah. All right. Look,

I'm sure they've got an explanation for it, but it doesn't seem to be here. We can't keep saying that. We can't just keep saying. We have to jump to a conclusion. He's a double as well. There's one. Yeah. He's been replaced by Bill Evington.

Alright, so, fact number two, and I am calling them facts. Fact number two. A change in appearance and voice. So, what the Avril Lavigne replacement truthers point to

most specifically in my research, is that her change in appearance happened pretty drastically after that 2002 error. Although we have been unable to find a photo of the website at the time, back in 2002, her official website apparently listed her height as 1.58 meters. But now in modern years, she is always listed as 1.55 meters.

There are old blog posts from the time that show her old height. What is that, three centimeters? Three centimeters difference. That's pretty...

Insignificant, right? No, no, it's substantial. It's very substantial. It's a little bit over. How much do you shrink? Because you do shrink. Like, you do. I think it's more to do with your posture, right? Probably as you age. Slouch more, maybe. Either that or they've got some more accurate information.

She's probably lying about the fact that she's 155 because that's quite short for a woman, isn't it? I don't know. Is it short for a woman? I feel like that's about right for a woman. Is that bang on, is it? I don't know. Jesus, they're little hobbits, aren't they? 1.5 feet is two feet. You could be right. Yeah, actually, that is pretty short. That's 5'1". I feel like that's pretty short. She's 5'1". Yeah, if that.

Jesus Christ. Her and Snooki, eh? What was the original length then? 5'2". So that's like, yeah, one inch difference. You're right. And 5'2 seems pretty short for a chick too. Yeah, so she was always short. She didn't change there. She was always short.

So the body double was close enough. Theory truthers also think that there are fundamental and substantial changes to her nose, her face shape, and her eyebrows from 2002. So for audio listeners, there's going to be a picture on the screen right now showing the scrutineering of these changes that the truthers have pointed to. Jordan, you see right here this picture, 2002, 2006, 2022, the differences.

I am willing to grant some leeway between the photo between 2002 and 2006, but 2002 and 2022, that's two decades. That is two decades. Your face does change. Yes. That is a bigger gap.

in those years between Avril Lavigne being born. So you may as well just be showing a picture of a baby, you know, just with like the thing over it just saying 1996 and 2002 and saying, look, her head is shaped differently now. The 2006 one, though, I don't know. She bulked out a bit. She looks like Kirsten Dunst there a little bit. Damn. Do you think?

Yes, I do. Yeah, it looks like Avril Lavigne on the left and right, and then I think they just took a photo of Kirsten Dunst and got confused as to who they were looking at, because she does look different there, but also it could be the makeup. I don't really see any...

significant like facial structure differences like her nose yeah me neither and what i keep looking at over and over is the fact that she has a slightly crooked mouth when she smiles in all three pictures exactly in all three yes and and i feel like that's pretty hard for a clone to replicate also also her teeth she's got those really like uh kind of like gummy smile and pointy uh what do you call them canines on the side she's got that they look the same yeah yeah

Definitely more looks the same than different, in my opinion. And now that I am looking at 16-year-old Avril and 40-year-old Avril, I am willing to concede that, yes, yes, she has aged since 16. Yeah, it was shocking. Incredible. I'm honestly shocked by that. Yeah, how dare she age?

I always do feel like that a little bit when celebrities age. It's like, ew, this is unexcusable. Is the public just like babies with no object permanence? Yeah, I think so. I think so. Like if you age remotely, you're a completely different person to them eventually? I think, yeah, it's bang on.

So over the years, Avril's voice has also gone from being darker to a much brighter sound, and Kira has been kind enough to add a couple attachments here. If you want to open the first link, we'll listen to this together. Okay, so this is the 2002 one. In 2012. In 2022. Well, it's definitely gotten worse. Yeah, I'll say that, but isn't that expected when you age again? Like, it's kind of...

Or is it expected that you get better since you've got more experience singing? Look, I don't know. I don't know enough about the art form, but I will say she was killing it at 16. Yes, she sounded incredible. If that was how she was able to sing then, for sure. She sounded great. I mean, she doesn't sound bad in 2022. I don't want to insult Avril Lavigne. She is a pop goddess, so credit where credit is due.

Yeah, she's not bad. She's not bad. She just was... Look, I get why she got a two-album record deal. Yeah. I forgot. I haven't heard her in a while. She is good. Yeah. All right. Example video number two. Hmm.

Nah, I really couldn't tell the difference. Alright, she's exactly the same. Wait, there was way more difference in that one. What are you talking about? Was there? I think so. She sounded more tinny in the second one, for lack of a better, more applicable term. Probably not the most accurate term. But yeah, she sounded more smooth in the original one, I'd say, whereas it was more nasally, maybe, in the second one. But that could just be the style of singing. She could have just changed her style of singing since the original.

She could have done that. And she also probably has had a nose job since then. Yes. Oh, yeah. That's going to change your voice. It's got to. 100%. Also, the fucking audio could have been mixed differently. I don't know. Different microphones could have picked up different intricacies in her voice. You know?

Look, there's a lot of other explanations other than she has been changed with a completely different person. Who is, by the way, looks exactly like her and is also able to get pretty close to her singing voice. Yeah, I know. Which is pretty damn impressive when you think about it. Because that means that she would have to be doing an impression her entire life.

Look, she doesn't deserve the Grammy, but she deserves the Oscar. Oh, 100%. That is long-ass method acting. And the Oscar for celebrity impersonation goes to Melissa. Yeah. Oh, wouldn't McCartney be outraged? And then we have some more pictures below of the handwriting differences. Nice.

That's very good. I would say in both bottom ones, they're pretty much the same. Like you look at the H, the H's and they're exactly the same. And it's a very unique kind of H. So I'm not sure what the difference is meant to be here. Could it be possible? Um,

that some of them were written by maybe a publicist or something like that, and maybe that's the reason why there's differences. Yeah, maybe. Yeah. It's not like he would be writing every single thing that is shown to the world. So many questions. Yeah. It's great. I do really like that this happened, especially because it's just very amusing to me that this is all over Avril Lavigne.

Yeah, there's so much analysis from random people into a clearly stupid idea. But it's funny, I love these conspiracies. These conspiracies are always my favorite because ultimately they're harmless conspiracies. Totally. They're great. They don't make a difference in the world, and it's just fun to see the kind of lunacy on display from people. So number three.

The third point, the continuous dramatic tone shift. After the darker and moodier vibe of Under My Skin in 2004, which was an album, Avril went on to release The Best Damn Thing in 2007. That's the title of the album and not my description of it. It was most definitely a more commercial album. And while still containing elements of her punk past, it was definitely the most pop-esque album she released to date, with some describing it as pop-punk and bubblegum pop.

The feel of the album was more lighthearted and fun. This, of course, could only mean that the moody and depressed Avril Lavigne was dead and Melissa, who was clearly more pro-pop, was in control now. Avril got pink streaks in her hair and the theme of this era was pink and black. To be fair, this was five years after her first album.

A lot can change in five years for a 16 year old. You kind of grow up during that time period and like make style changes. It's not like she was always going to be pop. I mean, punk. So, you know,

Not the best point. I think the handwriting was probably stronger than this one. That's incredible. The handwriting's better. It's true. You're right. How can you sit there and say no human being is ever going to dye their hair? It's never happened before. Unless they're a fake. No human being is going to change their mind or opinion or style preferences in five years' time. It's impossible. Yes. Especially when I'm looking at it.

It's not that far off. Seems pretty on point for Avril Lavigne, doesn't it? Yeah, it's really... She's still got the eyeliner. She's still got most of her hair is like bleach. It's just like a pink streak. It's a pink streak in her hair. She was trying something different.

Totally. I'll grant them this. It looks fucked. I wish she never did it. It's honestly really chat. It's one of those bad hangovers of that period of the noughties, isn't it? Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's the transition into the new era when everything was becoming more pop as well. So...

I think it's more believable that the studio pressured her into this more pop style, as opposed to Melissa was finally taking creative control of the brand. You know? I think it's probably one is more believable. There are some strange lyrics, though, which brings us back to our favorite lyric analysis.

There are some strange lyrics within the album that point towards comparing herself to someone or perhaps Melissa being her own person and having her own dreams. These lyrics are from the best damn thing. Take it away. Where are the hopes? Where are the dreams? My Cinderella story scene. When do you think they'll finally see me and that you're not going to get any better? You won't get rid of me. Never like it or not. Even though she's a lot like me.

We are not the same. Even though she's not like me, we're not the same. Oh, my God. Look, I would honestly, whoever is doing this, just a little critique for your next conspiracy theory. Shorten it. Shorten it. You're really adding a lot of faff here. You've got one good line in each song. Just use that. She's a lot like me. We're not the same. That's good enough.

Yeah, that's great. Although You Won't Get Rid of Me Never is also pretty good. Melissa is all powerful. No, but yeah, she's a lot like me. We're not the same. If I'm playing devil's advocate, which I really don't want to do in a conspiracy theory like this, but I feel like I have to since Jordan is all in on this train. I would say that...

Maybe it's because of the whole transition to the pop style, which is pretty apparent in the theming of the album. Maybe she's saying, even though Avril Lavigne from 2002 is a lot like me, we're not the same anymore. We're changed. If I'm going to put on my actual analysis mode, try to dispel this ridiculous notion that this is Melissa. But deep down, obviously, no.

I want to believe. We all know the truth. Yeah, we all know the truth. This is Melissa. This is Melissa speaking. And she's directly telling the audience that they're not the same because that's what, obviously, they're going to do if this was true. They're going to lay hints for people. As is tradition with all these conspiracy theories. The people in control, obviously, leave little breadcrumbs for those who are...

observant and special enough to peek through peek them up yeah when she began her career she gave an interview talking about how even though people may think of her as a pop chick given her age she wasn't and she didn't want to be a diva or be told to wear cute outfits that showed her belly that's a quote and she wasn't able to sell sex or sorry she wasn't about to sell sex

which is probably good for a 16 year old she just wanted to wear what she felt comfortable in which was more of a rock and punk aesthetic and as Avril progressed throughout her career she began to become a pop chick though and dress the way she always said she wouldn't does this make her a liar or does it make her Melissa and then we have a picture here of Avril Lavigne from 2003 and Avril Lavigne in 2007 and my god Avril Lavigne in 2007 is scary that is a terrifying picture

That's horrible, isn't it? That is horrifying. That's the stuff of nightmares. Yeah. Now that I'm looking at it, I believe that Melissa, that has to be Melissa. She's a fucking villain, a super villain. She looks terrifying there. Yeah. Witch. A witch wearing like a pink, what would you call that dress? Yeah, like Cinderella princess dress. Prom dress. Yeah. Something like that. Yeah. Terrifying. Absolutely terrifying.

What the hell happened there? Look, okay. She definitely looks different from 2003. Yeah, it turns out when you go from looking like a tomboy chick who hangs out at the skate park all day to an actual psychopath wearing a prom dress. Yeah, a Tim Burton character. Actually, yes, 100%. Very scary. Very scary picture.

But I'll just say that that was just maybe a bad pose or something. I'm not sure. In 2011, Avril released Goodbye Lullaby, a pop punk project that had themes of heartbreak after her divorce with Derek Wibley of some 41 the year before. Potentially caused by Derek discovering he was married to Melissa instead. Yeah.

How did he discover that? Yeah. What, she had to put on prosthetics every day like she's dressing up as a zombie or something? Yeah, he entered the bedroom at an unfortunate time when she was out of her wig. Oh!

You're not Avril. Who are you, strange woman? And again, some 41 said nothing because of the music industry. Yeah, they were controlled as well. But they were kind enough to let him leave the marriage. If anyone was controlled, it'd be some 41. Yeah, Derek Wimley, of course, would be controlled by the music industry. Do you think that the... Because you've got to put a reason for annulment of divorces, I'm pretty sure. Do you think that the court documents, if we could get a hold of them, would say, discovered that wife was Melissa?

wife was not who she said he she was that's gonna be it it would add a lot of credence to this absolutely that would be a smoking gun that would be even if it was something vague like uh she's not the woman i married or something yeah i could i could run with that that'd be easily yeah that'd be compelling enough for me to be like yeah maybe there's something to this melissa theory

So in 2013, she released her self-titled fourth album, which was called Avril Lavigne, which is a very bold move considering she was not Avril Lavigne. Which contained probably the most different song she has ever released, Hello Kitty. Have you heard this song? Let's just play it right now. There's a link below for the song. Just a little clip of it.

That was fucked. I miss Skater Boy and Complicated. How did she go from that to that? Oh my god. Maybe there is some credence in this Melissa theory, because Jesus fucking Christ. That was something. I've never heard that before.

All right, I'll be investigating that in my own time. That was as far from- There's a lot of musicians I need to show that. That was so far from punk. I don't know what that was. That was terrifying. I'll tell you what that was. I'll tell you what that was. What? That was exactly the same thing that happened to you when you went to Japan, where you come back and you think, oh my God, they're so much better than us. I wish I lived there. I've got to bring a piece of their culture back to here.

Yeah. And then she tried. I didn't do that. And as you plainly see, she's no Gwen Stefani. Huh? I said I didn't do that. I didn't come back and start singing about cupcakes and fat kids at smarty parties. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But Jackson, if you were that famous-

I'm sure that we'd see you in the stupid Harajuku dress prancing around with very poorly, like bad accent Japanese. That was so fun. It was very, very, it was uncomfortable more than anything, I think. Wasn't it? Yeah. Wasn't it? It's just like, look, I don't know about you, but don't you think that when Gwen Stefani went through her little phase, she pulled it off.

Well, I was thinking that that to me, that song, I was trying to think of who it sounded like during listening to it. I think it sounded like Kesha or someone like that, you know? It definitely sounded like very 2013 pop. This would have been a dime and a dozen at the time.

Yeah, totally. Look, I'm just going to look up when Love Angel Music Baby was released. Oh, no, it was 2004. No, she just went through her own little phase, like way too late as well. Yeah, she created the phase that others would then follow. And what a good idea it was. So Hello Kitty is a Japanese pop dubstep and EDM song. You've just heard it. While the release was mostly targeted towards and well-regarded in Japan, it was picked up worldwide and was heavily criticized worldwide.

Many viewed especially the music video as cultural misappropriation. Oh my god. Oh my god, how could you do that? Going back to her original interviews and look, would the real Avril make music like this? Good point. Compelling point. This is a compelling point. Once a tomboy and shy, now bubbly and colourful and heavily anti-Japanese. Okay, I don't think she was anti- What? What? What?

I don't think she was anti-Japanese. I think Kira's having a joke there. Did Kira just give up and then just chuck in chat GPT at the end or something? What the hell is that sentence? Well, because she was picked up for cultural misappropriation, I guess that is... Okay, so she's anti-Japanese. Misappropriating. She's making fun of them. I think Kira's just having a laugh there, maybe. Alright, alright. But yeah, so I guess she was semi-cancelled for that, or at least

Which is a dumb... You could criticize the song, but that's a dumb argument to make. Clearly she was putting her own spin on it, right?

Yeah, and also, come on, she made this song. She suffered enough. Yeah, leave Melissa alone. She's trying. All right. We've talked enough about evidence. I'm sure you're all convinced now. We don't need any more evidence. So we do need to talk about the all-important point of where did Melissa even come from? Very, very important point that we need to tackle.

So it seems that the theory of Melissa being the person who continued on from after Avril's death stems from a single photo of Avril with Melissa written on her hand. Was this Avril saying that she's Melissa? Why would she do this? And then here's a picture, audio listeners again, there's a picture of Avril Lavigne doing like a fighting pose.

Like she's about to enter the ring. She's boxing. Her arms are up in front of her. And this is like a weird studio picture, it looks like, in a random white room. It's definitely Avril Lavigne. And on her palm or on her hand in black Sharpie is the word Melissa. Definitely not photoshopped. It definitely looks real. I think this is from a time where this seems authentic. But the photo, after a bit of research...

and I mean a very minor amount of research, we were able to confirm this, it stems from a public fundraising event, and Avril, during this event, was writing thank you notes and names on her arms to take pictures with for the Avril Foundation, an organization that helps support individuals with serious illness or disabilities, because Avril herself was diagnosed with Lyme disease in 2014 when she apparently was left bedridden for two years due to it. And the Melissa who supported the fundraiser

whose name is on Avril's hand, is a super fan and founded the website avril.org back in 2004. They even met in 2011 and there was a photo of them together. Melissa is still posting to this site as recently as 2004. So yes, Jordan, the entire, entire,

Conspiracy About this Melissa person Existing stems from this photo Of her having Melissa on her hand First of all That's it I thought there was something else coming And second of all

Within maybe three minutes of research, you're able to track down this photo to an obvious source of her writing that person's name on her hand in a photo shoot where she's thanking people for charitable donations to her foundation, basically. Yeah, convenient excuse. Maybe you can kill two birds with one stone. This is what Melissa would do, obviously, to cover her tracks. She would find a superfan named Melissa,

give her a bit of money to donate to the organization. So then she would write her name on her hand to throw the breadcrumb out there, I guess. Yes. To let people know that she's Melissa. Yes, yes. Yeah. And then also there's a photo here of Melissa and... So Melissa the fan and Avril Lavigne. And you know what? They kind of look similar. Do they not? Am I...

Yeah, no, I think the same thing. Look, honestly, you give her a nose job, you make her lose a few pounds. She is Avril Lavigne. No, I think if you just, like, dye her hair blonde and, yeah, maybe lose a bit. Well, you could get away with it just on that. Yeah, I mean, if you- I'll say this, Avril Lavigne looks more like an evil little pixie than she does.

You're going to have to do something to her face. Go on. It's getting close, though. If she just loses a little bit, I'm not saying she, I'm not criticizing her or calling her fat or anything, but I think that Avril Lavigne is just... She's not fat. It's just Avril Lavigne's quite skinny. Yeah, she's quite skinny. So I think if she just lost a little bit of weight, then she would be like pretty damn close, honestly, which is now making me think that she is, if her name's actually Melissa, maybe she is a body double. They look similar enough where I could be convinced. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

I'm telling you, it's the nose. The nose is throwing me. The mouth, it does explain how the mouth is pretty much the same in all of them, though. The eyes look the same, and I think the eyebrows look close enough. The general...

Yes, it is shitty 2004 photo. Audience, tell me if I'm crazy. Because I have been known to have extreme facial blindness where I just cannot pick up on face differences or things like that. But they look pretty similar to me. Pretty close to me. And now I'm going to get bullied by the comments and they're all going to say I'm fucking stupid. Because they look like two completely different people. But to me, they look very similar. Look...

It's right. You don't have to make me feel better by saying that they look similar. If you don't think they look similar at all, please let me know. No, no, no. I do think that they look similar. Okay. I just don't think it's enough to fool literally everyone on Earth.

Just Jackson. Just me. Jackson's having difficulties telling the difference between the two. The only way that he is able to tell is because she's holding up an Avril Lavigne. She's holding up a poster with her name. If she wrote Melissa on her hand, I'd be very confused.

um yeah i mean i could if you put these two people in a photo lineup i would not be able to tell honestly i have severe facial blindness hang on wasn't she supposed to be shorter she used to be uh one five five and now she's one five two or something i don't know something like that that woman is taller and she's

clearly sloping in to make herself look small. That is a good point. And Avril, the real Avril Lavigne is kind of like pushing her chest up to make herself taller as well. I think she's standing straighter. Okay. So interesting. That could mean that that could mean that the woman on the left is the real Avril Lavigne. Yeah. Yeah. There's also that. And the woman on the right is the body double.

That's true. Which is the Avril Lavigne we now know as Avril Lavigne. I'm getting confused. This is too much. My brain is breaking. All right. So the blog post from Sydney Yako, which is the source, she suggests the theory that the surname that Melissa was given, Vandella, sounds similar to Mandela, like Nelson Mandela, like the Mandela effect.

This has been a popular phenomenon or theory for over the past decade, including the time that this Avril Lavigne theory was exploding. Could it be connected? The Mandela effect is like when you make a false memory, right? Like you believe something was a certain way and then you later on discover that it wasn't. Yeah, something like that. Yeah. Yeah. So...

I guess, so if someone was creating this conspiracy from nothing, which it sounds like they did, and they were just trying to make a conspiracy, then calling the person's name Melissa Vandella in respect to the Mandela theory could actually be a bit of foreshadowing that they were trying to plant false memories in people.

Yes. So, yes. Yeah, I could see how this could be a bit of fun on the part of the person making the conspiracy theory in the first place. Well, good on them. I mean, they definitely did have a lot of fun doing this. So did we. We had a lot of fun doing this. So did we. This was a lot of fun. We're not done yet, though. Let's just recap. Avril Lester Mortis, that blog's 10 main points of the theory.

as well as one extra main point from me at the very end. Do you want to read through them? Different faces, especially the nose believers, say that this has been confirmed by a specialist, but we have been totally unable to corroborate this. We cannot find the specialist, so that was point number one.

Point number two was Avril was 1.58 in 2002, but the new Avril- New Avril is shorter, despite the fact that the Avril that they show is taller. Continue. Yeah. Point number three, the new Avril's voice, besides being thinner, is unable to reach the same notes that the old Avril could in the songs. Okay. That's also a thing that I think happens just when you age, but yep. You can take point number four. We'll just- Okay. Okay.

The subliminal message on the CD under my skin cover booklet song lyrics and hidden messages in the clips. Okay. That was undeniable. Yeah. Absolutely. That was definitely Avril and death. All right. A plus D equals Avril and death. Avril and death. And what else could it mean? Yes. Evan Tobinfield. This is point number five. Evan Tobinfield left the band in the year under my skin was released. It made a song saying he lost his best friend. Okay.

But no one bothered to check if he had other friends. Or also the fact that friends can, like, you can fall out with friends without them dying and faking their deaths or whatever and making body doubles. Like, they could have just had an argument, let's say. Yeah.

Yep. Not as strong as point number four, but still pretty strong. Number six, the handwriting is changed. I like this inferences. The new Avril even uses another autograph. The top points are great. Yeah. Wait, wait a second. If someone's trying to mimic Avril Lavigne or the body doubles trying to get as close as possible, they would be able to be trained to use the same autograph.

Why would they start using a different autograph? That's ridiculous for even a body double to do. Like, if you're trying to mimic the person that you're trying to replicate, you can't. That is pretty stupid, isn't it? Forges are able to do it pretty easily. Yeah. Look, I suppose that's her thing. She's not like a little Nigerian man, so she's not as good at forgery.

But she was good enough to be trained to sing exactly or as close to Avril Lavigne as possible and then also look exactly like her. But an autograph is off the table. Yeah. Like, sorry, I can't. It's quite insulting to Avril Lavigne, isn't it? Yeah. It wasn't that extreme of an autograph either. I feel like give a forge maybe like six months of training and they'd be able to do it.

It does make the suggestion that Avril Lavigne's singing style is extremely replaceable. But her very crap, easily forged signature isn't, and that is her true talent. Yeah, that's her true talent. That's the irreplaceable element of Avril Lavigne. Yeah.

All right, so point number seven. There was a sudden and abrupt change in her personality, way of being, style, et cetera. We're talking specifically about that change to that more- That one Japanese- Yeah, Hello Kitty kind of era of pop music. Yeah, that's true. It was sudden. It was. Number eight, the old Avril said that she would never wear cute, fashionable diva-style clothes. She hates singers who had a preppy style and repudiated the term diva.

The new one dresses this way and is given the title of diva and doesn't care. She lied to us. Or she changed. Well, no, this explains that she didn't lie to us. So Avril Lavigne's spirit is forgiven. Man, okay, all right. So it seems to be four and eight. Four and eight are killing it, and there is no other explanation for them.

Everything else, subliminal. It's supplementary. Circumstantial at best. Circumstantial at best, but nonetheless, the case is compelling as the dot points keep climbing. Number nine. The old Avril said she would never show her body on camera. The new one does it in many videos and photo shoots. Interesting.

It's not possible that she just got comfortable on camera ever since she was a 16-year-old and this is all she's ever done. So, of course, she would eventually get more comfortable. Like every pop diva ever. Yeah. 10. The old Avril said that she would never adopt a pop style with dancers doing choreography on stage. The new one does all that. I like the usage of the term the new one. It's so funny. The new Avril model has released. Avril 2.0. Yeah. Gross. Gross.

And then number 11, my extra point. So those previous 10 points were obviously from or from Avril Lester Mortar's blog, which was the original creator of the conspiracy. But I felt like they missed a very important and integral point here, which is the most important point. Number 11, Avril Lavigne wrote Melissa on her arm once, which is obviously, obviously, that's the most compelling point.

And like that, you've ratcheted the conspiracy up to 11. Yeah, isn't that- That is explosive. Isn't that the most important element of this above the rest? How do you forget the biggest part? The most compelling point of this that she wrote Melissa on her arm. It's almost as if she's not taking this seriously. Almost like she was creating this conspiracy for no reason. What a weird conspiracy to just create one day. I know.

Oh, wait, she did have an interview. Yeah, here we go. You can take this. You can take this chapter. Avril on Melissa. Avril Lavigne. Which sounds like a very sexy video, I'll be honest. Avril on Melissa. That's a porn title. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Both hot names. Both hot names. Has come out and said that this theory is ridiculous, but she also understandably finds it pretty funny.

Yeah, okay, you can laugh it off, but you are also the one that laughs in the middle of the night, so it's not really anything to do with you, is it? Yeah, that's not a point against the theory if she's spending her late nights laughing herself to sleep. Yeah. Also, she said out of all of these theories that a celebrity can have, it isn't one of the worst. That is true. That's a compelling point.

We'll go into them. We will, over the many, many years, deep dive into that. But she seems like a connoisseur herself. Yeah. In 2018. Yeah, doesn't she? Yeah, she seems like she's up to date. In 2018, when she was in Australia, Avril went on an interview with Kyle and Jackie O for American audiences. That's sort of like our Howard Stern, I guess. Big, big radio show. She was asked by them about the rumor going around, and she said it was so fucking dumb.

Oh my God. At nine in the morning, there are children going to school, Avril. Jackie O, did you laugh at the rumors that went around where you no longer exist and there's a clone of you? So you died like years ago and there's a clone pretending to be you. Everything sounds so dumb when you quote it. But also Jackie O, you're talking to fucking Melissa at the moment.

What do you think she's going to say? Can you address her correctly? What do you think she's going to say? Maybe you can pull her out. That'd be an exclusive. Jesus, Jackie, your entire shtick is being like a pop celebrity goss queen. Jackie O's idea of breaking ground here and proving the conspiracy theory or proving her incorrect is just asking Melissa if she's being honest. Of course she's going to say no.

That's very silly. Yeah. It's very silly. Silly strategy, Jackie. You should know the tricks of the trade, Jackie. Yeah. Some people think that I'm not the real me, which is so weird. Like, why would you even think that I look the same? Well, that's not a very compelling answer, honey. It really isn't. And as we've discussed, you do not look the same to these conspiracy theorists. They are analyzing freckles on your arms and face and deciding that you are not who you say you are because your freckles have moved. Yeah.

You need more compelling evidence than that. Yeah, and you've got more wrinkles for some reason than you did when you were 16. There's a lot of things that you're not answering in that. Jackie O, even when I was looking at the conspiracy theory, I'm like, do you know what? Maybe they're right. Oh, Jackie O, please. Now, there's a girl from the Gold Coast. Like you read a conspiracy theory and you get sucked into it because they've got so much evidence that proves so much evidence. What are you talking about, Jackie O? I mean, they've got 10 points.

But the one of all the conspiracy theories was probably the most far-fetched, Avril Lavigne. Oh, my goodness. So that's where she swore. So dumb. Yeah, she's just palming it away. She's really not giving any compelling case towards the mountains of evidence against her. Yeah, it's rude. If she was in court, she'd be in jail right now. It's rude. It's just fundamentally rude. She comes to Jackie O's house of truth and she spits that in her face. House of truth.

I do like how these quotes are written because it makes it sound like Avril Lavigne is just calling Jackie O so fucking dumb to her face yeah yeah

Yeah. She really is, isn't she? She's not really even saying anything to a long paragraph, except so dumb. She's just basically, well, yeah, also Jackie O is basically just saying, I believe this conspiracy theory that you're not real. I bought all the evidence. I saw the Ten Commandments above the ten points of truth, and I'm a believer now. What an idiot.

Avril has also recently gone on the Call Her Daddy podcast where the host Alex also asked her about the rumor 10 months ago. Avril says that the rumor that she isn't herself isn't necessarily negative or creepy and it's just dumb and that obviously she is her. But Melissa Truthers accurately countered this by saying that this is exactly what Melissa would say. They're not wrong. Yeah, I mean, what can she really say to dismiss people who believe the theory? We need to see Avril Lavigne's birth certificate already.

We need to make sure that who we're- No, no, no, no, no, no. What you need to see is not her death certificate. So what she has to do to disprove this theory is disprove a negative. Yeah, so- She has to do the scientifically impossible. And until that day, she is Melissa. Wait, yeah. How do you prove that you're not someone? Exactly. Exactly. This is what's so pernicious. This is something that I learned online very quickly, right?

after someone doesn't have an argument, they just move into the territory of you can't disprove this point. Oh, you mean like arguments online, right? Yeah. Yeah. Every time. Every time. Yeah. 100%. It's the easiest way to win an argument. So why wouldn't you? It is.

Just a little trick of the trade there, kids. Yeah, this is Jordan's lessons on how to argue efficiently. Just make shit up. That's it. Make shit up. Be very aggressive about it. If you are disproven on it, just move back to, well, you can't unprove it. All right. And as a final point on this topic, the opening line of the original forum, the Avril Estel Mortar forum,

that spread this rumor includes prominently the line, quote, this blog was created to show how conspiracy theories can look true, end quote. Oh, okay. Well, that was a complete waste of time. Thank you for joining us. Thanks for spending the last two hours with us on this one, huh?

Well, I'm glad that we got to the bottom of that one. That one probably should have been at the top, honestly. I feel like that could have been at the top of this document, if I'm being completely honest.

What an anti-climax. Just for fun, I have some more pictures here. Let me just grab them real quick. Because I was curious, reading this document for the research, I was very curious about if people truly, other than Jackie O, believe this theory. Because I was like, who would believe this? There's nothing here that is actually pointing to the theory being true.

Right? No. No, it's not. No actual evidence. Nothing even remotely believable. So I went online, right? And I was having a look around, checking out all of the threads and stuff to try to determine if there was anyone, anyone at all who believed the theory. Now, I will say, I will say 100% that there are a lot of people that believe

uh obviously don't believe it and are making fun of it just as we basically are

But my God, unfortunately, there are also some that genuinely do believe this and will get very violent and vitriolic about the fact that they're not being taken seriously and that they can't believe that people don't believe this theory. I've got an example here, and I feel like I'm able to quote these Reddit posts or these Reddit comments directly because the person has deleted their account.

So I'll read through it right now. They're also below in the document. They're also attached in the document and on screen right now. So this comment says, I've seen and done some extensive research online on my own for years and 100% believe that is an Avril. Her handwriting changed. Her music suddenly took a huge turn. Her singing voice and normal voice

Normal voice literally changed after she resurfaced. I've seen tons and tons of interviews and comparison views. Most artists don't change how they sing their own songs with different range volume cause literally it's different.

All right. So what they mean by extensive research is what everyone on Reddit means by extensive research. They watch the videos. Exactly. They've seen as much as you have if you have listened to this podcast. This is their years of research. Yeah, but they see something different through it. It's crazy that someone could listen to this, all the information that we've just gone on over and come to a different conclusion than we have and actually believe it.

And that's what this person is basically saying. They've seen all this stuff and they believe it. You really could have just shortened this entire Reddit thread to like, I have a low IQ. Yeah. That's pretty much it. There is no way. I mean, look, if they are telling the truth and they've spent years of their life on this, holy hell. Yeah, like a PhD in Melissa truthing. Yeah.

That's depressing. They continue, overall, I don't believe that she died, but I believe a lookalike took her place to be in the limelight because she didn't want to be a celebrity anymore. That's an interesting twist on it. Absolutely no evidence provided, but it's an interesting twist on it. She was a smart girl and had a deep view of the world as a teenager.

Wasn't she talking about laughing at night when she goes to sleep? I wouldn't necessarily say that she had deep views of the world. Now in interviews, she talks like a bubblegum princess with a high-pitched voice. Perfectly valid why she didn't want to be in the spotlight. She probably had some sort of contract. They figured they could profit off a punk pop rock star, and she already had a following. So they decided to give her a new look, new voice. Some people would look past it and believe it is her. P.S.

Nothing will change my mind. Just read it out, read it out. That's such a good PS. Yeah, PS. Nothing will change my mind at this point. If that doesn't say anything, that says everything. I love that point. Me too. Perfect. And then a reply from another person just to show how widespread this belief is, or at least there are some people that believe it. This is from a different user replying to that.

And they say in capital letters, no caps. I don't know why they, what does that mean? No cap? Ironically putting it all in caps. Yeah, which is hilarious. They say no caps. There's Avril and there's Melissa. But Avril didn't,

You sound like a real fan. You stated everything. Also, her body is so different. Also, her pretending to be Avril on the skateboard in Never growing up is so laughable to me. Like, girl, stay in your lane. I want to add, it's really Avril singing on the albums, but live? Oh my god. Melissa can't sing for shit.

The voice changes- Oh, how unintentionally insulting. Go on, go on. The voice changes only when Melissa sings it live. I did see some 2013 live of the Real Avril online. You gotta find them. I saw like two or three. And during her self-titled album promoting Real Avril wore sunglasses interview, smiley face emoji. I knew it was her just by the voice and mannerism. Mannerism is spelled so wrong. And personality. These people are insane.

Yeah. That's the end of that. They are, but like, I would love Avril to send them on overdrive by titling her next album, Melissa. Wouldn't that be great? Yeah. And all the songs are just filled with coded messages, basically, for them to go wild on. Oh, it'd be perfect.

Just so we can watch it. She's got to do it. She's got to do it. Honestly, you want to revive your career to superstardom? That's your best shot right there. Let's get hashtag AvrilIsMelissaTrending on Twitter to make it a reality. Yeah, make sure that Avril knows that she needs to make an album titled Melissa. It needs to happen. She has to do it. It needs to happen. It's for her own good. It is. Well, it's going to make her...

I think it would actually lead to a resurgence in her career. 100%. So do I. So it's smart from a business strategy point, and it's also just fun. Oh, yeah, totally. Please do. Especially if she starts doing the tour, like she deliberately starts putting prosthetics on her face just to look a little bit different. There's so much that you could do with this. Yeah, be creative about it. That's what I want to see.

Me too. All right. I mean, look, you are just admitting that you're a joke at that point. But, look, that seems to be the entire –

phase cycle of a celebrity you start off as kind of like this sexy idol sensation it's the david hasselhoff effect you move into your more serious somber years uh which for david hasselhoff i guess was dancing on the berlin wall as it was getting knocked down with a jacket that would just flash in different lights that was him being serious and then he's just a joke

that eats hamburgers off the floor. You've got to get into that phase. Sorry, Melissa. That's your only option. I like how you're calling her Melissa. It's just, what else can we call her at this point? Yeah, it's clearly Melissa. All right, so to wrap this up, I don't know why I'm asking you because it's clear that you 100% believe in the truth.

Yeah. Even though they explicitly said at the end that this is a made up conspiracy theory. Yeah, we made this up to show how conspiracy theories spread, which is hilarious because even with that, they were still correct. So good on them. Wow. Yeah. So I take it you are a believer? Yeah, yeah. Firm. Good. Firm. I would love to get an actual believer on the show maybe in the future to have an actual conversation with someone like that to see why they believe it.

Yes. It would be a very uncomfortable discussion. I feel like it would be skin crawly to some aspect, but still. Don't you think? Look, it's kind of just the same as British comedy, really. Is it funny or is it just really awkward? All right. Let us know what you think below.

But only if you believe that it's Melissa. I only want to hear that. Self-confirmation bias. Only Melissa Truth is below, please. Yeah. I'll tell you what, though. Also, this is something that's very interesting about it. Even though you know that this conspiracy theory is fake, Jackson, don't you think?

That much like Agent Mulder in The X-Files, I want to believe. I want to believe. Don't you? Yeah, that's every conspiracy. I always go in wanting to believe. I always do. Because it makes, 100% makes life more interesting when things like this are true or they are legitimate.

Maybe not the more depressing conspiracies, but definitely shit like this. It would blow my mind and make me so happy if it came out that Avril Lavigne actually did die in 2003 and Melissa has been living her life ever since. That would be like... God, we look stupid, hey. That would be life-changing. Wouldn't it? I would be ecstatic if that happened.

so please uh don't if there are if there are any melissa truth is out there that take offense to us making fun of this just know that we are on your side like fundamentally we do want this to be real so yeah yeah yeah you know if you know something that we don't and we didn't cover please let us know if there's some like actually bulletproof uh bullet proof you know evidence out there that proves that melissa is real please let us know but uh

It's looking pretty bad when the opening line on the original website says that this was a conspiracy theory that was made up to test our conspiracy theory spread. So that's a pretty hard one to beat, unfortunately. It's a tough mountain to climb. It is, but I believe in you. And you do it. So do I. I believe in you, especially these people leaving comments on Reddit. I believe in you guys. Fight the good fight. Don't give up. Don't change your mind. Changing your mind is, as we all know, weakness. So do not do that. It is weakness.

But what isn't weakness is Red Thread. Head on over to official.men for early access to episodes. You get ad-free content over on official.men and early access a few days before everyone else. And it helps out the show. Patreon.com slash the official podcast as well if you want those benefits on a different platform. But, you know, it definitely helps out. We really appreciate the support. We know that Red Thread has gone through a lot of changes. But

here we are we're still capable of putting out exhilarating content about melissa's in the world so you know the support is heavily appreciated if you'd be willing to do that there's good benefits as well uh but you know just from the bottom of my heart thank you for sticking through uh everything with us really do appreciate it if you're still here uh big thank you to jordan for coming on board uh i love i love talking to you we got great chemistry it's a lot of fun um

And, you know, I love that you're willing to, you know, go along with things and believe in things like Melissa. So I think you're a great fit for this project. Happily. Thank you very much. Yeah. Hope you guys enjoyed this episode. Let us know thoughts and feedback because obviously we will read comments. I will read comments and we'll take feedback on board. I definitely read a lot of the comments. So please let us know your feedback.

In the future, we've got some guests lined up that will come on the show to offer their expertise on matters. So definitely expect guests in the future. Other than that, really happy to have you on board and we'll see you in the next episode. Oh, Jordan, do you want to shout out yourself? I mean, I'm going to put the links in the description regardless, but you may as well. Yes, you can go to either of my channel, Friendly Jordies, or...

political content that has nothing to do with your life whatsoever and is far more boring than your own politics, that would be great. And then the other one is Jordan Shank, my shelf help channel, because there's not enough of those on YouTube. And those are the two things that you can check out. I would say if you're looking for more content, maybe similar to this kind of stuff and Jordan in this capacity, probably the Jordan Shanks channel, probably more similar to that. Just like...

fun good vibes and stuff whereas the uh the friendly geordie's channel is more like jordan shanks gets firebombed by politicians every week so you know yeah i know maybe that's kind of fun of the conspiratorial element as well so maybe maybe go check that out

Links below. Go check Jordan out. He does fantastic content. One of the best creators in Australia. Highly stand by his content. It's very entertaining. Go check it out. But other than that, we'll see you next time. Thanks, guys. Stay red. See ya. Bye.