62: The I-70 Serial Killer | Red Thread
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A lone killer stalks the concrete artery of America. He prowls, each passing off-ramp an act of small mercy, as unbeknownst to those living their innocuous lives beyond, he has spared them a bloody fate. Eventually, his mercy would run out and his indicator would signal one thing only. The hunt was coming to an end. His engine would sputter to a quiet whimper as it finds itself crawling into the parking lot,

at an entirely unremarkable strip mall, one of the thousands dotting the Midwest like grains of sand on a hot summer sidewalk.

He would slink out from the car door before finding himself in a store where a lone employee would be passing her mundane shift, counting the minutes before she could leave to live a life outside of these four walls. Within moments though, he would leave bloody, with the only evidence being the body he had chosen to render lifeless. Then he would find himself once more on that concrete artery, the hunt beginning anew.

Don't worry though, guys. You're safe here. Don't let that story alarm you, that very visceral story. You're safe within the walls of the Red Thread. Think of Red Thread like a little safe house. As long as you're here with us, your friends, you're safe. That's not just emotional manipulation to get you to continue watching Red Thread or anything. You're safe here. That's a genuine Red Thread promise with me. I've got my good friends. In fact, one of them is so good, she's my fiancée, Kira. Hello, Kira.

Hello. And also my other soon-to-be fiancé, perhaps, Jordan. Hello. Hello. I take that laugh as a rejection, by the way. I would say yes, just so you know. No, no, absolutely not. Look, I've got my own fiancé to deal with. Yeah, unfortunately, you're off the market. I absolutely get in on this, yeah. All right. Hello, guys. How are you both doing today?

Yeah, not bad. Yeah, not bad. Not bad at all. Pretty good day. You ready to talk about something disturbing, horrifying and very sad? Totally. This is actually a really good day for it. I don't know if it's the same with you guys, but it's overcast. It feels like a day for a ghost story, even though this has nothing to do with ghosts. There's no ghosts. Creative ghosts for the future.

No ghosts here on this episode. Today we're dealing with one of the most mysterious, perhaps, serial killers that roamed America in the 90s, the I-70 killer. He's called the I-70 killer because that's where his hunting grounds were, the Interstate 70, which spread across from west to east, across America, basically across the entire middle of America, right, Kira?

Yeah, almost. Yeah, all the way over. Almost all the way over to Nevada from the East Coast. So yeah, this guy operated in a very small window, claimed a lot of lives while he was active. And then he just disappeared. Just as quickly as he came onto the scene, he was gone, leaving many questions in his wake. Jordan, you told me that you've heard of this one, which is...

I guess not surprising to some degree, but also surprising because I didn't think that you would have followed many serial killer cold cases in America. I haven't. Not at all. I think that there's just some names that are so omnipotent in popular culture. Yeah. It's kind of like America's Jack the Reaper. 100%. Yeah. There's definitely names that are so to the point where it's hard to not notice them when they're talked about.

Yeah, plus I really, I don't know, for whatever reason, I-70, it really sticks in your mind. It sounds very scary.

It probably sounds, well, the killer part of it sounds scary, but like the I-70 part probably sounds very mundane to Americans. It's just a highway. I mean, it's a cool highway. Don't get me wrong. It's very long and, you know, but there's, you know, 90 of these motherfuckers. Nothing against highways. It's just another highway though. So it's probably a pretty mundane name for them. Whereas from over here, the I-70 killer sounds very intimidating. It sounds like he's like a Terminator model or something. Yeah. Sent back in time to kill

which is terrifying. Yeah. But no, it's just a highway. Yeah. Unfortunately. One day they'll have them though.

He is hoping. He is hoping one day that there will be a super intelligent Borg that goes rogue and starts killing human beings. Can it only kill people along highways though? He's programmed to only kill people along highways for some reason. As long as you steer clear of highways. That could be a good method of keeping people away from cities though, to spread out the population maybe. Wouldn't it be the other way around?

Well, no, you wouldn't want to be on a highway. Stop the decentralization of it. Oh, okay. Yeah. Cause they're not migrating back in. You just stick where you are. You're born in Utah. You have to travel exclusively along rural roads and shit like that. Right. Otherwise you're, what are we talking about? Kira, have you, have you heard of the I-70 killer? Obviously you have now, but before your research into this subject, have you heard of him?

I had heard of it, but I hadn't watched any videos or done any research into it. Yeah, it is absolutely just a very recognizable name. Even if you have not done any research into it, I feel like you've just seen the title or the name of this guy across the internet in a bunch of different Reddit threads or Twitter posts or even just old history channel videos. You definitely noticed the name. It's a very well-known serial killer who proud in the 90s.

Yeah, he really killed... He's done serial killer pay dirt, hasn't he? He's done it all. He's lived the dream of all serial killers. Out on the open road, they seem to love that. Not getting caught, that seems to be a big plus. You know, like, just famous ads, to the point that Kira and I are like, yeah? Yeah, I know. Yeah, I've heard of it. Yeah, it's... For sure, I think he hit the serial killer pay dirt, basically. Like, he got what he wanted...

in the short amount of time that he was active. As far as we know, he could have been active longer for sure. But in that time, he got what he wanted and then he just dipped and no one knows who he is. Like he, you know, he succeeded in that way, which is obviously a shame. I'm going to take the very controversial opinion of saying I wish he was caught. Wish he was caught. I'm rooting for you, i70. Keep the dream alive, man. Keep the dream alive.

You'll make a return one day. Yeah, to go along with what you were saying about the highways, though, with the serial killers seeming to love them, I was reading an interesting article the other day when I first started researching this case about how

How the proliferation of these highways across America seemingly enabled a lot of serial killers. Because now they were able to easily operate in other states and jurisdictions, which complicated the whole investigation of their murders. So there is an argument to be made that these highways in of themselves enabled and created serial killers across the decades, which is pretty fascinating. Yeah. I mean, how easy would it be to get away? They've given you the getaway path.

And there's not really such a thing as DNA or anything. So, I mean, DNA did exist. I want to clarify that. That's a new invention, actually. We've only just created DNA. No, yeah, DNA, yeah, it existed. But obviously analysis of DNA was definitely not, you know, something that police readily had available to them in the 50s, 60s, 70s, 80s.

Well, maybe 80s, but yeah, it was definitely not common and as good as it is now. So, chapter one, the I-70, nature's giant concrete mystery. Interstate 70, created in 1956. I thought it would have been created earlier than that.

But no, created in 1956, is a stretch of road 2,151 miles or 3,461 kilometers long, stretching across most of the United States of America, beginning in Cove Fort Utah. Utah. Utah. Utah. Utah. I'm pretty sure it's Utah. Well, you've been there more than we have, so I assume you're right. I've never been to Utah. Utah.

Oh, right. See, this is how specific and America-focused you are. You even know that they care about their state more than the country, it seems. I was just like, you've been in the general vicinity of it. I don't know. I've never stepped foot in there. I've been to Guatemala once. That's close enough. LAUGHTER

So beginning in Cove Fort Utah, that's where the road begins. Then running through eight states before ending in Baltimore, Maryland. That's absolutely not how they pronounce Baltimore. It was along this interstate in the spring of 1992 that a man, I've got to get serious now, known now as the I-70 Killer began a series of murders targeting employees of shops that dotted the interstate road.

So six people in total died over a one month crime spree. But there are also alleged other victims as well. Not confirmed to be the I-70 killers victims, but you know, there's some evidence to suggest that they may have been. So that number could be greater than six. 30 years later, we still do not know who this man is. And in fact, we like have little, very little information to even make an educated guess. Like there's a lot of cases out there. Like there's

The Zodiac Killer, where people are very passionate about certain suspects, given circumstantial evidence. There's not even that kind of stuff in this case, really. Oh, no one's passionate about who the I-70 Killer is. Well, no one has a person to really point to. There are some names, but it really does just go by gut feeling, more or less. Right, Kira? Yeah, there's not... I don't think there's any full suspects. It was...

Yeah, just a lot of names and possible people, but nothing concrete. Yeah, nothing with real evidence. Like they threw out names, I noticed a lot. Like there were definitely names that they would throw out. But then when people were asked, like, why? Why do you think this guy in particular? It usually just came down to vibes. Like that was their main argument.

It's like, okay. There is a very interesting, and this is a little bookmark or a teaser for the end of this episode. In my research that I did today, I was trailing through the internet to find...

Reddit post about this to see what people were talking about in particular to the I-70 killer online. And I did find a very interesting post that I'll get to at the end of this episode, which I think hasn't really been covered online yet, but I found it very fascinating. So I included it in this document towards the end. All right. So we're going to go over a timeline of the murders chronologically, because I think that is probably the best way of covering this, just to give people a chronological order of the events that transpired.

On April 8th, 1992, 26-year-old Robin Fuldauer was working a shift at a Payless shoe store in Indianapolis. The store, these days a Battery Plus, was located less than a quarter mile from Interstate 465, which connects to the I-70.

Have you seen pictures of the highway system over in America? It is so extensive. Not only do they have these giant arterial veins basically running across the entire country, but they've got highways connecting these main ones to each other as well. I mean, obviously, this is such a stupid thing to say, but it is crazy that this infrastructure even exists. Don't roads over here cost like, I don't know, like $1,000?

$30 million to like make one road for like one block. Yeah, it's crazy. I just can't fathom how we made these roads in the past.

Um, like how they, they must've been on a crazy budget. I don't know. I assume it was just deal with like a lot of Chinese migrants losing arms and explosives. Like, I think that that must've been it. Did it just get like, it just got like exponentially more expensive in the modern era for some reason. I guess workers' rights would have to be my guess.

which is why construction like that got more expensive. Yeah, I don't think that that's all of it, though. But you're right. Roads are unfathomable. You could not build the American road system today. No, which is why they can't maintain the American road system today. Yeah, they can't even maintain it. Their infrastructure is falling apart, especially across the central, you know, the interior. Like, all those roads through the Midwest and such are not great from what I've heard. So...

Yeah, it's impossible to maintain, let alone construct, which is just, it's unfathomable. Like, I can't believe, and even over here in Australia, we have like a highway that broadly connects all around the state, all around the country, right? Like the great, what's it called? The Great Ocean Highway or whatever the fuck it's called.

All right. Oh, yeah. Highway one. It's always that one. Yeah, yeah. It's just all over. I don't know. The Bruce Highway. Yeah, or the classic Bruce Highway. That's our road. Good old Bruce. Yeah, good old Bruce. See, that's what you're supposed to name your highways after. Yeah, name it after a dude. Yeah. That's what you're supposed to do. It's unbelievable to me that you guys are just calling it these very scary, dystopic future robot killer names. Yeah.

Yeah, like I-70s. You spend all the money in the world to build these roads and you give it a name like I-70. It's so nerdy too if you read the rationale for why they named their roads this way. It has to do with mathematics and stuff. Like the I-set, like roads with even number...

so like 70, 65 or whatever are the ones that go horizontal across the country. And then odd number ones are the ones that go like north to south, you know, vertical roads. Come on, America. Stop pretending that you're that old.

Intelligent. I'm sick of this. What is this? Who's that amazing quarterback player? Tom Brady. What's his name? Yeah, Tom Brady. Like, as if he doesn't deserve a highway. Well, they're all named- I'm pretty sure they exclusively name airports stuff after those people instead. Oh, okay. Well, this is the completely wrong way around. Yeah. Like, if you are talking about something that should be named after geography, maybe it's the thing that links you to the rest of the world. Yeah. Not to Denver. Yeah.

Yeah, I want to fly into the Tom Brady airport. I don't know where I'm going. I don't know where that is. I'm sorry. That's so stupid. I have no clue where the Tom Brady airport is. I bet there's a Tom Brady airport. You reckon? Oh, 100%. Oh my god. Oh, damn. I was close. There's Tom Bradley. I don't know which one that is. Who's Tom Bradley? I have no clue.

Find out. Yeah, I'm going to find this out. Oh, he's the former mayor of Los Angeles. That makes sense. Nah, well, okay. All right, that's it. Rename it to Tom Brady. You have to get rid of one L out of that. Such bad airport names.

Is Tom Brady even connected to Los Angeles? Isn't he on the other side of the country? He is now. He played for the Patriots. Yeah, but still, what a star. Come on. Anyway, there's no one going to be better than that guy ever. He's the Tom Cruise of football. You know he kisses his son on the mouth?

Why? I don't know why. It's the secret to having really good football abilities. You have to kiss your son on the mouth. It's like a devil's barter or whatever. Like the devil's trade. You're really good at football, but you have to kiss your son on the mouth.

Oh, man, I'm so glad I'm not from one of those Arabic kind of families or something like that where it's like, come on, kiss, kiss for Baba. I couldn't do it. I couldn't do it. Yeah, I couldn't either. I could kiss, like, your dad on the mouth, maybe, or, like, Tom Brady on the mouth. Yeah, obviously, definitely. Yeah, but not my dad. My dad's a very handsome man, obviously. But, you know, it's just, it's too much. It's too intimate. Why is Tom doing, like, Tom's all American, isn't he?

I mean, I don't know. Surely this guy's from somewhere called, like, Maine or something. There's nothing more American than kissing your son on the mouth, I guess. He's from California. Who, Tom Brady? Yeah. Oh, well, there you go. Name the airport after him. For Christ's sake. It's all there. All you have to do is just get a texter and cross the L out. That's all.

It's not a real infrastructure upgrade. Wouldn't it be incredible if they did the costing on it and it costs more than to upgrade the I-7? They should rename the airport the Tom Brady kisses his son on the mouth airport, international airport. Very catchy.

Alright. So Robin, Robin Fuldauer was described as a kind, intelligent, caring and hardworking young woman. She was working this particular shift solo expecting nothing out of the ordinary to occur. Maybe just to be a little busier without the help of her sick co-worker since she was working in her stead. However, that day, a particular man in a green jacket had taken the interest of an employee of a nearby paint store, Jeff Mayrose. So Jeff Mayrose is the guy who noticed this strange man.

The man he noticed was loitering around the buildings, talking and giggling to himself.

Jeff thought the man must have either been mentally ill or on drugs. Pretty good guess. He would look into his bag and then stare at the Payless store, sitting on the curb for about half an hour. The strange man disappeared around 2 p.m., but was then spotted again calmly catching a ride back to Interstate 456. What does catching a ride mean? You mean like he drove his own car or like... Like hitchhiking. Oh, so he's a hitchhiker. Oh, okay. Yeah.

Okay, that's us then. Around the same time... Sorry. Well, I don't know. I just... I don't think I could ever do that. Maybe it's because of stories like this. And back then, there wasn't that many of these stories. I just don't understand how you can hitchhike. It's such a dangerous situation. Isn't it? Everyone involved. Even picking one up. Yeah, absolutely. Nine times out of ten, most of these highway-related murders and dangerous situations are born from hitchhiking.

It's so dangerous. I don't know. I get like the desperation, like, but where do you need to go that desperately where you would hitchhike? Like most of the people I knew who hitchhiked just did it for like the thrill of it or because they just couldn't afford gas or whatever. You know, people that hitchhike. Yes. I knew people who hitchhiked and I was like, that is crazy. You're insane. Weird. Yeah. Yeah.

Like, I'm a sane person and I wouldn't pick anyone up hitchhiking. So the only, like, reasonably, the only people that would pick up hitchhikers are the opposite of me, which would be insane. Which would be insane people. I think so too. That and I'd imagine a lot of bored truck drivers that just, nah, I've listened to too many podcasts. I want a real podcast now. Oh, yeah. So the, yeah, lonely people, lonely truck drivers who want some company.

Which, let's be honest, is another form of insanity. Yes. Yeah, yeah, for sure.

Around the same time, the owner of the Payless store needed to get in contact with Robin and began to call. Oddly, they noticed they received no answer. This was concerning and strange, so they called the fuel station next door at roughly 2pm to ask for someone to go check on Robin. The worker, a friend of Robin's, walked over and took a quick look inside and immediately noticed that the cash register was wide open.

She couldn't see Robin anywhere in the immediate area and decided that the safest course of action was to return to the fuel station and call the police. Yeah, that's what I would do in that situation. Mm-hmm.

no need to be brave and run in or you know guns are blazing and like if I notice something even remotely out of the norm I'm getting the fuck out of there and calling the police in that situation it could be like one I don't know like one item on the ground erroneously or like a I don't know a spill of water in the aisle and I would immediately be out of there calling police

I'd be so scared. You wouldn't want to be in the back having a medical concern or something like that because I would not be of any help. You'd call the cops. Yeah, I'd call the cops. Or the guy with the heart attack. Exactly. Not the ambulance. Yeah.

This guy is clearly a threat to me. Yeah, it's clearly a false flag giving you the impression that he's in need of medical attention so he can mug you. It's very wily of you, I'll tell you that. That's my survival instincts. I have good survival instincts.

When the police arrived, it did not take long for them to find Robin, who was found deceased in the back office. Robin had been fatally shot in the back of the head twice with a .22 caliber handgun. And as best to my knowledge, .22 caliber is not like a extremely large caliber. Like it's more of a... Yeah, like you have to like...

point blank kind of execute people to be able to do like you know sustainable damage to someone i mean you could kill people but it's like if you if you really want to kill someone you're probably choosing a higher caliber from what i understand not a gun expert we need a gun expert on here kira you ever shot a gun before no you're a gun expert yeah that's why you're on the show that's why that's why i propose to you you did archery though in high school

That was different. It's a form of gun. It is different, but it's still pathetically probably the most qualified on the podcast. You've hold a weapon that could be misconstrued as a ranged weapon, perhaps. All right. The police investigated the area, but found that there was no sign of struggle. And as best as they could tell, only around $90 was taken from the cash register. Was that all of the money in the cash register?

Not sure. Didn't say. But it seemed to be a theme throughout all of them that not all of the cash was taken. So I'm assuming that there was more in the till. Okay.

The back door was wide open, indicating that the killer had used it as an escape route. On a regular day in broad daylight, Robyn was murdered in her workplace. The police began to interview her co-workers, gather evidence, and try to put the pieces together. A difficult task given the lack of evidence and eyewitnesses. They assumed, with no other connection to be made to the case so far, that the motive was a robbery.

But the killer would strike again because just three days later, which is an insanely short amount of time for...

for another killing to take place. On April 11th, the I-70 killer would strike again. 32-year-old Patricia Majors and 23-year-old Patricia Smith were working at La Bridal Delegance, located in Wichita, Kansas, around 700 miles or 1,100 kilometers from the scene where the previous crime took place in Indianapolis.

Majors, the owner of the shop, was looking forward to heading home towards the end of her shift. Smith, newly married, was also looking forward to heading home after a long day of work. The store closed at 6pm, but a customer who desperately needed his tuxedo that day had called ahead, informing them that he would be late to pick it up and asked if they would wait for him.

The two women kindly agreed to stay back an extra half an hour, much to the relief of the grateful customer. When he arrived, the keys were left hanging in the lock of the store, and assuming the woman had left the door unlocked for him, the customer walked into the store to collect his tuxedo. But it was not Majors or Smith that greeted him, but it was another man, around 5'7 in height, with reddish hair and a beard.

The man carried an Uzi-style gun. I do know what an Uzi is from my Call of Duty experience. That's like a machine gun. So there we go. Maybe that's how we can get up to date on American gun stuff. Let's just do a 24-hour Call of Duty sesh. Just learn that way through osmosis. It's the only way. It is the only way, isn't it? That's the only way that any Australian knows anything about guns. Oh, yeah. Do you know anyone in Australia who owns a gun?

uh yeah i do know someone that owns a gun uh they are a farmer yeah it's mostly multiple calls of people coming out and just being like just just checking you haven't killed anyone with the gun right they're just like no not to my knowledge i mean they just walk out it's it's quite difficult to own a gun in australia yeah we have very strict gun laws you have to do like multiple it's a little bit harder than going to kmart

You also have to have it disassembled in a safe, right? Or something like that at all times. Yes. Yes. Yeah. It has to be in a special lock box. Yeah. Very, very strict. Yeah. I think probably as strict as archery. Kira, that's the thing, isn't it? I was very surprised to find out, and I did do this. I just bought a spear gun online, and that was completely fine. I didn't need to give any kind of proof or evidence. You know, spear gun for fishing.

How is there no restrictions on that? No, no restrictions on that. Not at all. I'd much rather be killed by a gun than a spear gun. Yeah, a spear gun has to be, like, way more painful, surely. Surely. Yeah. What a scary thing. Which is so strange. Yeah. Very, very strange. So you bought it to settle the score with someone, did you? Yeah, I bought it as a self-defense tool. It's my second amendment weapon.

over here in Australia to own a spear gun. Yes. In this gunless hellscape, you need something. Especially, yeah, in retirement central Queensland. Yeah, it's Sunshine Coast. Actually, did you hear, this is, we're going off topic here a little bit, but this was very, you know, a rarity over here. There was a shooting on the Sunshine Coast just yesterday.

Was it gang related? No, it wasn't. Well, I don't know if it was or not, but some guy crashed his car on the highway and immediately shot another guy. Road rage. Carjacking. Yeah. And then he carjacked the car, took it, and then carjacked a learner driver as well. I don't know, drug related maybe? It's just so weird thinking about it on the Sunshine Coast because I am thinking about 80-year-olds. Yeah, it's...

I think he was like 55 or something. He was definitely older. Yeah, he's close. He's getting close to retirement age. Yeah, but very, very strange. I mean, for the Americans, that's just how weird shit over... Like, how rare that is over here. Like, that's the first shooting I think I've ever heard in my local surroundings in like... For as long as I've lived here, honestly. Wow.

which is crazy. I don't know about down there in Sydney. How common is it down there? Because there would be ganglion. I don't know. Does the western suburbs count as Sydney anymore? If they do, technically. Let's just say this. In Tokyo proper, no. In greater Tokyo, hell yeah. LAUGHTER

But, you know, no one goes there unless you live there, which the vast majority of people do. But I don't care. If you go there, you're consenting to the shootings. Is that what you're saying? You're part of the problem. You're contributing to the economy. You're going there exclusively for the shootings most of the time. Probably, yeah. Look, honestly, if you're from here, I don't know why else you'd be going. It's just you and your obsession with race car driving. Same thing. Yeah, gang-related stuff for sure. Yeah.

So, yeah, the man carried an Uzi-style gun. Some reports say it was concealed by a handkerchief. I read it was a, what do you call it, like a bridal mask thing, Kira? Oh, yeah. Okay. Yeah, which would make sense considering it was a bridal store, so he probably just picked it up off the shelf or something. Yeah. I don't know how bridal stores work.

So yeah, he used this Uzi-style gun to quickly try to coax the customer into the back room. The customer, however, began to back up with the armed man now shouting at him to leave instead. If the customer had gone into the back room of the shop, he would have seen Majors and Smith already dead, and most likely his fate would have been the same. Shell-shocked, it took the witness around an hour to call the police, and the killer was now far gone.

It's a very odd situation that he just let him leave though, right? Kira? I think that it was kind of like the killer was tossing up. I mean, obviously we don't know, but either take like, if this guy was not coming to the back room and he was eating up time that people might discover they're there and would put up a fight, the killer kind of went, okay, what's the best course of action, either dealing with that fight or just letting the man leave and running. Yeah.

Like, cut his losses, essentially. Yeah, but, like, realistically, he had a gun. He could have just shot him within seconds and then ran away. Like, I don't think it would have eaten up too much time. Now all he's done is left a potential witness. Which...

I get you, like the killer's probably, he definitely wasn't expecting this to happen. So your mind operates like, you know, a thousand miles a minute or whatever. Like he's got information overloaded in his brain and he can't decide. But I just, I would have thought that a killer's impulse decision in that situation would just be to kill the witness. Like that's the most logical thing. Because it doesn't prevent him from escaping. He can still shoot and then escape as he would have done if he didn't shoot the witness.

To me, like, could it be that he was out of ammunition at that point? Maybe, like, maybe he did only go in with several bullets or something like that. Or maybe he's- I mean, maybe, yeah, sure. But I honestly think that he just freaked out. It seems like both people in that situation. It's like when you open the door to your share house back in the day and there's a rat in the toilet and both of you are like, oh, you know, I think that's what happened.

Yeah, I've never had that experience. Haven't you? I thought that was quite relatable. No, I've never had a rat in my toilet. How common is that? Let me know in the comments. Come on, surely a lot of you have been in bad share houses in your college days and you've seen things. I've had cockroaches. Cockroaches is about as bad.

as the bathroom gets for me. Like, that's the highlight. Now, does that freak you out, does it? I don't know. I mean, that's the worst animal that's ever been in my bathroom. I've never had rats. Yeah, rats is something else, isn't it? Rats is one up from mice. And cockroaches is a distant bronze middle to that. Yeah, I wouldn't know what to do if there was a rat in my toilet. Like, what do I... I'd be out of there. I know what you'd do. You'd call the police. Yeah.

I'd be on the phone immediately. All right. So...

Majors and Smith, the two deceased victims, ultimately had most likely thought that the killer had been the customer when they willingly let him into the store. I mean, that's conjecture, but we don't know for sure, obviously, how the killer got in the store, but makes the most logical sense. When the police finally arrived, it was confirmed that they died with the same type of gun that killed Robin just days earlier, a .22 caliber pistol.

The police were able to link the two murders due to the similar modus operandi as well as the same bullet casings being found at the crime scenes. 22 caliber CCI copper clad lead bullets. In a further link and perhaps as a calling card of sorts, the bullets in both cases showed traces of jeweler's rouge.

Am I pronouncing that right? Rouge? What the hell is that? Yes. Jewelers Rouge. Thank you for asking. Jewelers Rouge is a very fine powder of ferric oxide and is commonly used to put the final polish on jewelry, metals, and lenses, hence the name. However, and perhaps I added this part, and perhaps as a symbol of the motive of the killer, Rouge is also historically used as a cosmetic for women to apply blush, right, Kira?

Yes. Rosy cheeks, things like that. As you wouldn't traditionally find Jewelers Rouge on bullet casings, in addition to the fact that it was found at the casings at both of the crime scenes, this immediately linked the crimes. Although I don't think they made this connection at this point because these were in different states, weren't they?

Yes. Yeah. So the crime at this point, the crimes were in different states. So there would have been some they wouldn't have kind of probably communicated interstate yet and made this connection. They would have probably been treating it as two different crimes. But looking back later on, this is when they made obviously the first connection between the crimes. So, yeah, that's that's interesting. So Jules Rouge, huh?

I don't know. It does also... Look, it also just might sound like he's a very particular man and sees some sort of symbolism and tradition in what he's doing. And that's why he's putting an extra finish on these things. And might even explain why he was scared to waste one of his precious bullets. Yeah.

He's precious. He's precious. Jewelers Rouge. I'm not sure how expensive it is, but I can't imagine it's that expensive to apply Jewelers Rouge. My two thoughts. Probably not. The two possibilities are like he definitely targeted exclusively women, in my opinion, like that's what his target was, which indicates to me, obviously, that he had some level of deep hatred towards women. So it really could have been a kind of metaphorical

uh, calling card about shooting like the beauty of them, basically like, uh, sticking it to him that way by using some form of cosmetics in the murder itself, like some kind of symbolism to this insane person. I could absolutely see that being the case, but it also could be like Jules Rouge does have, uh,

uses in polishing metals and things like that. And the gun that he did use is, from what I understand and what I read, somewhat of a rare gun. So perhaps maybe an antique of some sort, something highly valued by him or his family or whoever owned it originally. So they could have applied the Rouge to polish it, essentially, maybe, like the barrel and stuff.

Oh, yeah. Okay. It's either way for me. Like, it's either something symbolic or maybe, like, legitimately, like, it's a weapon that was finely polished. Look, can I just say, before we continue on, you guys don't fuck around, do you? Well, I didn't shoot it. I wasn't involved in this case.

Yeah, right. Well, that was very defensive for someone. I didn't mention that at all, but okay. It's very good to get that on the record, I guess. What do you mean? What do you mean? I don't know. It just seems that you guys really deeply think about this stuff. You've got many multiple theories about the Rouge.

The Rouge is an interesting element of it. What do you mean? No, it is an interesting element of it. It's just you guys went the whole hog. You do your homework. Maybe I'm getting defensive for no reason. I swear I wasn't involved in this case, Jordan. Yeah, that is real. I'm sorry, but I am starting to suspect things now. I wasn't even born in the early 90s. Yeah, or so you claim. Yeah, I use Rouge to make myself look 10 years younger. All right, so...

Both of the women's husbands were getting anxious as the night went on as the two women never arrived home. Both husbands called the store repeatedly as the evening went on to no avail. Mark Majors, Patricia's husband, decided to go to the shop himself to check on Patricia. But when he arrived, he arrived at the scene that was now swarming with police. He spent the night at the police station and identified the deceased body of his wife. And he has a quote here. Kira, would you like to read this quote?

Yes, it's a pretty sad one from Mark. He said, the one thought that really has haunted me and still does is what those two girls felt moments before it happened, the fear and terror that they felt, and there's nothing I can do. I feel bad for even daring to laugh at all in this episode. I mean, it is. It's sad. It's very sad. I couldn't imagine losing my beautiful Kira.

And then having to go my life, like wondering why this happened. Like that, that I obviously feel sad for the women who died here, but you know, the people that live on past that are like the true sufferers. It's long term. You know what I mean? I did not word that very well at all, but it's just sad to think about the damage and the pain that has spread to everyone surrounding the case who have lived with those questions for the rest of their lives.

Yeah, you can tell from the photo, that does still haunt that guy. Yeah. I couldn't imagine it. I think we can all cross him off the suspects list. Yes, I think so as well. The...

The police interviewed husbands Mark and Norman and quickly ruled them both out. See, they agreed with you. The police agreed. They quickly ruled them both out as suspects. They moved on to the witness, the customer who had inadvertently walked onto the crime scene, where they were then able to create a sketch of the killer from his description.

Though the I-70 killer had been seen by several witnesses and would be seen by further people as the spree continued, this was one of the most important descriptions as this was the closest anyone had seen him up until this point. And we have on the screen here for YouTube listeners, I mean, we've also got Spotify on, sorry, video on Spotify now, so you can watch the video on Spotify too. That's a shout out and plug to the audio platforms. Listen to the show on Spotify if you want.

There's video on there as well now. But on the screen, you'll see the sketches of this, you know, the eyewitness account. What do you think of him? He kind of looks like a, and this is topical at the moment, but he looks like an oblivion character to me. Totally. That's what I was thinking. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like very elfish. I'm surprised. He's got a much longer face as in you've got some sort of genetic disorder.

And then in the other ones, see, these sketches are all over the place, though, don't you reckon? The middle one definitely is, but I could kind of see what they were going for across the board, right? Like, there's slight variations for sure. There's like a long face. Two on the side. Droopy eyelids.

Two on the side just look kind of like a long-faced Mark Zuckerberg, right? But, like, look at him with his little, like, Assad moustache on the far left. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That one's weird. Sure. That guy doesn't look anything like the other ones, I think, anyway. Ah, now that I'm looking at it more, yeah. They're kind of... But the...

Man, imagine if that's all you had to go with back in the day. So difficult. You're a cop and that's it. It's like, okay, so basically you're saying any standard man in Utah

Yeah, like nothing remarkable about his face, really. Like no scars, no, you know, disfigurations or anything. Like he's not a, I'm not going to call him a handsome looking dude or anything, but he's like just fairly typical. I mean, the one on the right definitely scares me. Like that was a scary looking face on the right there. I'll be honest. I don't know why the artist decided to go that route. That's nightmare fuel. But yeah, like across the board, pretty traditional looking. What do you think, Kira?

Yeah, just very typical looking guy. Such an unenviable job, hey Jordan? Yes, it's a really standard man. What? Such an unenviable job being a police officer with this sketch to go by.

I couldn't imagine trying to solve crime back in the 70s, 80s. Wait a second. The 90s. Surely there's CCTV cameras at that point across the country. They'd exist, but I don't think they're going to be able to pay less shoes on the highway. True, yeah. It's quite still fairly new technology. Yeah. I remember when they started moving away from cabs with that bulletproof plastic around them.

and they just started moving into cameras. That was not that long ago. Why not have both? I don't understand why you would put a camera in there and then take away the bulletproof shield. It seemed more friendly. That's what I thought too at the time. I was like, why not? I guess you know what the answer is probably. Cabby's life isn't just worth it. I honestly think that's probably it. Yeah. Too much financial detriment to the cab company to keep those bulletproof shields in.

I think so. So, like, yeah, look, back in this day and age, trying to solve a crime, that's pretty much all you've got. Walking in around malls, I guess, as a detective being like, you seen this? And then they'll be like, yeah. Like, is that my dad? Yeah, that guy's everywhere. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, such a difficult task.

For the second murder, the I-70 killer had escalated his killings by killing two people at once. While the M.O. was similar to the first murder in that he targeted women who were working at roadside stores with long dark hair before he ushered them into the back room...

by perhaps mimicking a robbery where he would then execute them by shooting them in the back of the head. So that was his MO at this point. This escalation in killing two people instead of one was certainly an intriguing change from the other two, sorry, the other murder or the other murders in general, really.

Police have speculated due to this fact that the killer had believed that only one woman was present in the store, which indicates a level of spontaneousness and impulsivity in the actions of the I-70 killer at this point. Regardless, the killer being caught unaware at the crime scene in this particular case certainly had an impact on him, as he would take the longest break between killings after this murder, and

And when the time finally came for him to break his dry spell, he would act in an incredibly rushed manner. So his longest break in between murders is only 16 days, which is crazy. Jesus Christ. That's a dry spell for him, going without killing for 16 days.

Oh, my God. Even the pressure of just being the sheriff or whatever coming out to the press every two days. Yeah. Saying that, like, we've got some leech, we have another doodle. You know? This time on an etch-in-sketch.

16 days later. We should... I'm surprised there's not a trend on YouTube getting, like, commissioning Fiverr artists to draw serial killers by description to see how close you can get a sketch to the picture of the serial killer without actually saying the serial killer's name. Like, do you think you could go to a Fiverr artist and describe Ted Bundy, for example, and get an accurate sketch from them, basically, without saying Ted Bundy?

Oh, man. Well, five is always just such a roll of the dice, isn't it? Yeah. That place really should just be called Gambling on Strange Things. Is that what you reckon? I feel like the entire...

I'm open to a Fiverr sponsorship by the way just shouting that out to Fiverr if they're listening but yeah like overall I feel like that entire site is just for YouTube is to make YouTube videos from basically like doing those weird Fiverr trend videos that's all I ever see of it anyway for this second murder the i70 killer sorry I've already read that where was I

16 days later on April 27th in Terra... Jesus. Terra? Pronunciation on that one? I can't remember. Terra... Terra who? Hold on. Do you want any guesses? Huate? Yeah, Huate. Terra Huate. Terra Huate. Terra? Terra... Terra out? What?!

You think it's pronounced like that? That's what Google told me. Say it again. Say it again. Tear out. Tear out. What? That can't be right. Tear out. Is it a real place? Tear out. Tear out. Tear out. As in like tear out your hair.

tear out your hair trying to say it yeah yeah in indiana michael mccown is there anyone in the audience from tear out can you petition to rename that place please michael mccown was working in sylvia's ceramic shop it had been two weeks since the murders of majors and smith and longer than the previous three-day gap between murders at the unexpected meeting with the customer scared him

The killer may have felt that the heat was dying down and his urge to kill was now too strong to ignore because it was on this day that he struck again. Michael, or more often going by the nickname Mick, was a 40-year-old bass player who was incredibly close with his family and friends. The ceramic shop had been his mother's and was a family business. Mick,

Mick had almost decided not to work that day as he felt unwell after an earlier doctor's appointment. I believe it was a chiropractor's appointment, but ultimately he had decided to go in. The shop was right near Highway 41, which was just north of the I-70. Michael was found at 4.15pm by a customer.

He had presumably been stocking shelves when he was shot twice in the back of the head and killed as he was found laying deceased at the floor of some shelves. He was the only known male victim of the I-70 killer, but police have suspected that he may have been mistaken as a woman by the killer when he looked in from the outside. I'll tell you what, man. Like, this I-70 story, honestly, is a lot more captivating than I thought it would be.

It's the quick succession. Bang after bang after. That's what's crazy about it. You had like three meals in between these deaths. Yeah. What was so surprising to me is how quickly this guy just... He started killing and then he didn't stop for a month. Like, he was just constantly killing in that month. In very short succession. And then just disappeared. Like, no killing after that. Never again. He's done with it. Yeah, it's crazy. Which...

To me, it indicates he either died or was put in jail because I don't know how you can put the lid back on that genie once you start spree killing like that. I don't know either. Yeah. That's really strange. Look, I'm going to guess he's just dead. Yeah. Yeah, maybe. I mean, he was acting with such impulsivity. He was clearly living a very impulsive life. And Kira, you said he was hitchhiking.

Mm. That's what it seemed like. Yeah, maybe he was, like, a homeless guy living on the road, basically, and just eventually took too many risks and died somewhere. Because he does sound like a homeless dude, right? Just opening the door, and there's this short ginger going, like, get in the back! Actually, wait, stay where you are! And then the guy just runs out. He's like, oh! He does just seem...

Very impulsive. He doesn't seem like he's screwed together that well. Well, no. Most people that kill people aren't. Right, right. Well, I'm learning things from this podcast. So, yeah, Mick wore an earring and had long hair that he would often wear in a ponytail at the time. The name of the store, Sylvia Ceramics, also implied that a woman would be working in the shop.

that's a pretty odd detail if he operated entirely based on like

the name of the store. Like, Sylvia must be here. Considering the thinking that this was an impulsive and driven spree killing, it's possible that the killer was more opportunity motivated at this point and saw Sylvia, in quotation marks, alone in the store, assumed Michael was Sylvia, and chose to kill him before he turned around. Police suspected that Michael died not long before he was found, around 4pm. His wallet was also stolen.

The other victims, their wallets weren't stolen, were they? Not that I could see, no. Yeah. What's with this taking little bits of cash here and there? It's bum mentality, surely.

Now I'm convinced it's a bum. I think it's probably someone that's like, I don't know, actually. I go back and forth. I don't know yet. I'm going to reserve judgment on his state of homelessness until the end of the episode, maybe, once I go over all these details again. But yeah, I think him taking the money was A, to make it look like a robbery. I don't think it was...

money orientated but also potentially b uh he just wanted to get in and out as quick as possible so he didn't want to spend a lot of time looting the place perhaps no yeah yeah that's true both those options i think are probably probably pretty likely um i mean if he if he was money orientated these places wouldn't have been the best places to rob anyway like these are

more rural kind of shops like alternate health stores a shoe store like surely if you were if you're money orientated you'd choose somewhere a bit more yeah go for a proud at least yeah

So from an interview with Teresa Lee, which was Michael's sister on Michael as a person, she said he wasn't a fighter or mean to anybody. You know, in fact, when it first happened, the police had, I don't know, they had called just a ton of people, you know, immediately and called everyone they could think of. And when they said, we can't even find anybody who doesn't like him. Whoa. My,

Michael sounds like a stand-up guy. That's very sad. I mean, it's obviously sad that all of these people died. But, yeah, it's just... Each and every one of these people that died, it feels so unfortunate, because this will come up later, but most of them were there on their days off, or they were killed. He wasn't even the target, really. Sylvia was the target. And he just...

He was there at the wrong place, wrong time. Like, obviously, it's all sad. But, yeah, it's just, man, if they just hadn't have gone into work that day, they'd probably still be alive. Isn't that a very... I could not aim for that on my deathbed, for sure. I've made way too many enemies at this point. I can't even imagine someone who, when they died, everyone goes, yeah, no, he didn't have a single enemy, not one. Oh, yeah, yeah. That's so far out of my reality.

I've never even met someone that I know that everyone likes. You are in a pretty peculiar state, though, where you have made an entire state of enemies, really. Like a class of people, really, in Australia who wish you bodily harm, let's say. Yeah.

Oh yeah, I suppose that's true. Like my entire channel is just me giving the middle finger to another broad demographic every- I can't aim for it. But I'm just amazed that there's people out there that, you know, it's just not one person thought, no, no, I think he's a cunt. You know, not one person- That's how cynical you are. You can't imagine a world where some people are nice and don't have enemies.

But guys, come on. You have enemies, surely. Enemies? I don't have enemies. I have people I dislike and people who probably dislike me. But enemy is a strong word. Enemy is a strong word. It's a quite epic word, isn't it? Yeah. Sounds like you're, like, bound to do something harmful to them. It's like one step below, like, describing arch nemesises and things like that. It's like...

I don't hate anyone in my personal life. Like, obviously, like Jeffrey Epstein. I hate people like that, but it's not like a personal hate or anything. I wouldn't even describe Jeffrey Epstein as my enemy. So you don't reckon anyone has a voodoo doll with your face on it and every day is just going straight in the crotch?

Well, that would explain a lot. But I probably, yeah. I mean, we are in a particular, like an interesting case where there are probably people out there that think of us as enemies and we've never heard of them or interacted with them in any way, shape or form. They just think of us as enemies because of the things we say on the internet. You know what I mean? Like there's that level of people that probably think of me as an enemy. Sure. But yeah. Okay.

In my personal life, no. All right. And Kira, you don't have any enemies? No. None? No. I can't believe this. This is unbelievable to me. Not one. I mean, there's people I don't like, but I wouldn't essentially say enemy, like you, Jackson. Yeah.

Well, so you think that with both of you, when you die, both of you, they'll say, stand up, you being every single person. I don't think that necessarily, but like, I don't think there'd be anyone out there celebrating my death in terms of like this, like someone being like, yeah, I hated that guy. That's brutal, eh?

Oh, my God, I'm having an existential crisis now because I know for a fact there's going to be hundreds of people dancing, dancing on my grave. So everyone there, you're just going to get a few flowers, a few sniffles.

No, look at it this way, Jordan. Yes, I'm not going to beat around the bush. You've got enemies. You've absolutely got enemies. You are one of the only few people I know, in fact, that I would say has enemies. But you have a lot more people who obviously like you and also appreciate you. I'm happy with the fan to enemy ratio, but...

It's just like it's interesting. It's a different world that is, and I didn't realise that it was so common. It's quite a nice thought to me, really, just dying and everyone just kind of having nice things to say about you. Yeah, unfortunately you can't tell that. I'm not going to bitch about you guys when you die, so there's another person. Hey, nice. Thank you.

That would suck though. That would suck though if like I did die and then like my friends bitched about me. People that I thought weren't my enemy and then somehow like they're gloating about my death. That would suck. Yeah. Maybe that's yeah. I don't know. That's different though. That is different. That's trust issues. That's way worse. That's way worse. Yeah. People that you you know like and appreciate turn on you when you're dead. That's gonna fucking suck.

All right. So there are a few discussions online about this particular murder and the assumptions made, mainly that the question about if the killer truly thought Michael was a woman. Michael was killed on the shop floor and not in the back room, which is a break from, you know, the modus operandi. He was bending down to a bottom shelf when he was shot, which he could have been in the position from stocking shelves, but also possibly from reaching down to get a ceramic that the killer might have been asking for.

If this had been the case, the killer would have certainly seen Michael's face and known he was a man because like, yeah, he had long hair and earrings. But if you see him from the front, he's very clearly a man. We have a picture here up above Jordan, like the page before in this document. It's up on screen for people. Yeah. I mean, he's very clearly a man. Yeah. Yeah. He looks like a 70s pop star. Yeah. He was a bass player. Yeah. He was a bass player. Yeah. True.

Yeah. Yeah, okay. But yeah, very clearly a man. That's what I'm getting at. So if the killer had seen his face, he would have known he was a man. On a blog by Gian J. Quasar. Cool. That's a fucking cool name. Gian J. Quasar. Is it maybe French? Jean? I don't know what that is. Gian. G-I-A-N. Gian. Gian.

Fucking awesome name though. Sounds like a Star Wars Jedi or something. He writes that he spoke to Michael's sisters who also claim that Michael did not have long hair anymore and the shop had an entry bell which would have alerted him of any customers walking into the store. On the other side of the coin though, it is the St. Charles Police Department, the police department with the jurisdiction. It's their website that claims that he had very long hair at the time of the murder. And of course they had access to his body. So I don't know why that

why they would make that claim if it wasn't confirmed by them, right? It seems like pretty definitive proof, Kira, no? Yeah, I just found it really odd that then his sisters, I don't know,

I don't know what maybe the claim of very long hair is. Maybe it used to be longer, but then he cut it to shoulder length. I don't know. I just found it weird that his sister said he had cut it. Yeah. Yeah, sure. I would take... I would give a bit of credit to his sister for that claim. That's definitely made me second think it. The entry bell claim, though, not so much because I doubt he...

There's probably a lot of people, like workers, who hear the entry bell and continue stocking the shelves, for example. You know what I mean? They wouldn't rush to assist every person who enters the store. And especially if he was bending down and stocking the shelves, which is what it seemed like his body was in. My assumption would be that the killer walked in and immediately saw him crouching down with long hair, stocking the shelf, and put two bolts in the back of his head, and then immediately ran away. Like this... This was...

Like right after... Well, 16 days after that double killing... Where he had been... You know... Confronted by that eyewitness... So he was probably... He waited 16 days... And he's already a very impulsive individual... I would imagine that he went straight in there... And wanted to get this over and done with... Saw the first woman that he saw...

that he thought he saw, put two bullets in the back of the head, didn't go with the whole robbery shtick or anything like that because he wanted to get in and out as quick as possible after the previous situation where he was almost caught. Right? That makes sense to me. Like, I don't think he would have...

would have spent a lot of time casing out the joint or anything. It's almost like a drug addict. He tried waiting for 16 days, but he needed to get his fix. And then he ran in, did it, and got the fuck out of there as quickly as he can. It's not like he's sitting there savoring it. It's like a thing that he needs to get over and done with so then he can continue and go and live his life or whatever.

You know what I mean? Yeah, no, I totally know what you mean. I'm just actually quite impressed that you're able to. I'll tell you what, Jackson, you would be good at being one of those cold case guys. What do you think about this particular thing? Not me being a cold case guy, but this particular thing. I want to know what she thinks about that, but okay. I think Kira is more knowledgeable about that than me, by the way. Knowledgeable about what? Cold case stuff.

Oh, yeah, no, it's just like the fact that you're able to just sit there and kind of like sketch out somebody's personality and think, yeah, you know, that could be emotive. It's not bad. Well, I think you would be able to, too, if you... Absolutely not. I'm so bad at reading people. Really? You know, what are you talking? Your entire main channel is you literally reading people and their characters.

Yeah, but it's like, again, some psycho ethnic guy being like, I know what your problem is. Your problem is you talk too much. It's basically the ramblings of a drunk at a bar. You're doing something where you're kind of filling in gaps. So Kira's good at it too. Kira's definitely good at it. Kira, what do you think? Oh, now I feel a lot of pressure. Yeah. You should feel a lot of pressure. This is...

This is high pressure stuff. This is your moment to prove yourself. This is your Eminem, you've only got one shot. You can wow me or you can't. You can just say you agree with me because Jordan's already impressed by that. To be honest, I think I do. Oh, yeah, sure. I just find it rather... The whole thing, this one in particular, I mean, the whole case is very sad and strange, but this one is really...

weird kind of anomaly where he broke his M.O. to kill a man. But there are those characteristics like the long hair and the earring and the shop name and everything like that, which may have made the killer think that there would be a woman in there. Yeah, I think he intended to kill a woman to complete his M.O. because I think it's clear to me that he had women issues and that's why he targeted women.

So I think that was a mistake. And in the act of making that mistake where he kills a man, that in of itself kind of implies a level of impulsivity and, you know, rapid recovery.

The rapid degree to which he committed this particular crime. And I would have to assume that the rapid nature of the crime, this crime is due to the previous, you know, murder not going to plan. Like I think that particular one, the double murder with the, both of the, both of the Patricia's at the bridal store,

I think him being caught there by someone really made him kind of think, I've got to do this quicker. I've got to get in there and out as quick as possible. Otherwise someone could see me. So that kind of shifted things, I think for him. And that's why he, he made this particular mistake in killing, uh, you know, uh, someone that he didn't necessarily intend to kill. Like he was going after Sylvia in this situation. All right. So, uh,

Regardless, there is a lot of room for speculation here and debate between whether or not the killer knew Michael was a man or if the killer assumed Michael was a woman from behind. The escalation in stakes, especially after the previous double murder, would seem rather brazen, executing Michael on the shop floor, a shop that had large front-facing windows, at a time where the killer no doubt felt his last murder had drawn a lot of attention to him. Perhaps he had

entered the store, assuming that a woman had worked there due to the name of the store, and opportunistically killed Michael, regardless of his gender, because this was simply the quickest way of getting his urge met. So far, however, the Indianapolis and the Wichita police act

acted upon their homicides as individual cases, but the closeness of the killings began to make them question the murders and a degree of interstate cooperation began to form. There were other crimes around the area too that the police thought may be connected, but these were slowly ruled out due to the crimes having significant differences to the killer's modus operandi that indicated they were unrelated. The same gun, now believed to be an Intratech Scorpion pistol or an Irma Workay pistol,

ET-22 pistol was used in all three murders so far. Did you? Oh, yeah, there it is. Look at it. Yeah, that looks like... Kira's bow and arrows look like less primitive than that, don't they? Well, I think it looks like a World War I gun or World War II. Is that what they looked like back then? Yeah, I'm pretty sure. That looks like a German gun to me. Like a German World War I gun. What a hunk of shit. Yeah.

Guns are way cooler now. It is probably just showing that I probably do have serial killer traits, but sometimes you look at a gun and you're like, wow, that's really shiny. That sucks. I don't think that's what serial killers think. I think you're safe there. I think you're just attracted to shiny things. Shiny things, okay. Like a bird, maybe.

Uh, the same gun was used in all three murders. This was around the time when the police began to realize it was a serial killer they were facing. One with a terrifying level of impulsivity. Yeah. I mean, that's going to be the most terrifying thing for the police. Uh,

When the only connection is he's targeting women along a giant highway that stretches from one side of the country to the other. That is legit. Like that's literally the only thread between these cases in terms of motive and things like that. And he's doing it with a rapid pace and a level of impulsivity that makes it impossible to really glean any information from. And it seems like the FBI at this case at this point, not even helping you. It's just up to Wichita police. Surely they suck.

Yeah, I mean, I think if it had continued for longer than a month, I'm sure the FBI would have got involved at some point there. Yeah, it seems like a month is quite a long time, hey? Like, what else have the FBI got going on that's more important than that? Yeah, what was happening in the 90s? I mean, yeah, look, they've got to stop a bunch of cocaine from getting smuggled in. Yeah, the war on drugs.

There's a war on drugs, but this is, this is a, this case. A week later on the 3rd of May in Charles, Missouri, Missouri, the 24 year old Nancy Kitzmiller was working at Boots Village, a Western inspired apparel store, apparel, apparel, apparel store that sat between a beauty salon and vet clinic in Bogey Hills Plaza located just off the I-70.

The job seemed to suit Nancy, who had a deep sense of country within her, enjoying the music, Western dancing, the clothes, and of course, the rodeos. Rodeos. Yeah, hell yeah. I think I'd enjoy a rodeo once in a while. I think it would be a fun time. I really wish that I was born in the South and unironically wore cowboy hats. I feel like life would be so much more simple.

And fun. Yeah, just go line dancing every three days and go to a rodeo every now and then and you're good. Just sit on your porch the rest of the time. Yeah. Freaking moonshine. An inordinate amount of carnivals. Yeah, the moonshine. Okay, well, the moonshine sounds horrible. I'm sure that would make you go blind, but surely they've got beers. Nah, moonshine. Why would you make it?

Potato water. Okay. All right. So you're into that. I love potatoes. I love potatoes. If there's one thing about me that I'm absolutely definitely sure of, it's that I love potatoes. Yeah, that much. Oh, yeah. That much. Once Jackson was like...

He said that he wanted mashed potato and what was it? Alfredo. The creamy Alfredo pasta. He wanted the dish of two of those things together. Or was it noodles? It was something like that. I don't know. I could have mashed potato with anything. That's incredible. My spirit animal is like an 88-year-old toothless man. I love mashed potato. Starch. Yeah. You want noodles and potatoes. Yeah, do you not?

Look, I like potatoes. I don't know if I could eat that meal. That scares the shit out of me. That freaks me out. You didn't want anything else? No, just goo. You just want to glue. Yeah. You just want to eat glue. So our serial killer traits are you like shiny things and I like potatoes a lot. Those are the most concerning things about us.

Yeah, well, if you heard those traits and you found out that someone was a serial killer, that would... Yeah, you wouldn't be surprised. No way. Not a chance. Kira, come on, have you got anything off the top of your head that you think, yeah, that people would be like, I thought as much? Oh, Jackson, what do you think for me? Yeah, actually, Jackson's probably a better quote. No, you're literally the most un-serial killer-like person I think I've ever met, probably.

Yeah, don't you think? And professionally researching serial killers is not a serial killer trait. No, even that I wouldn't say. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. What you said, basically. Like, I wouldn't say that that's a trait of a serial killer. Absolutely not. Kira, do you have anything? That's the trait of a woman that works at, like, H&R Block, you know? LAUGHTER

Kira, anything? I feel like I can't answer for myself. I feel like you need to answer. It's hard. Why? Are you scared of disclosing it? No, I literally, I don't know. Is there something deep, like dark and sinister that I don't know about that you're going to reveal? Like you could like to all my toenail clippings and keep them under the bed. That would be terrifying. No. All right.

So she was also very close to her family, recently going to Paris with them on a vacation long before. Nancy was the store manager of Boot Village, which meant when someone called in sick, which is exactly what happened that day, she would often volunteer to cover the shift, even though she was working alone. That fucking sucks. I hate that. Like, it's sad in of itself, yes, but just knowing that, like, fate rolled its dice and, you know, she came up snake eyes on that day. She

She could have been home that day. But out of the goodness of her heart, she volunteered to cover the shift. Also, those photos as well from the 90s. Now, that always. Every single photo. Everyone's got, like, a picture of their mum and dad that looks exactly like that. This is the most 90s photo. And every single one of those photos, I think, murder victim. You're just so linked in your head between that specific photo and murder, aren't you? That aesthetic. That aesthetic.

Yeah, I feel like we only ever see photos from that time if they are of murder cases and things like that. It's probably the case. I mean, this photo of Nancy Kitzmiller here, she does look very 90s.

Oh, yeah. Yeah. I'm very jealous of her look, actually. Yeah, I mean, it's awesome. Beautiful woman, if you don't mind me saying. A customer walked in the store around 2.30pm looking for help about a purchase, but after searching the store, they were frustrated not to find any employees.

Shortly after, they peeked into the back room where they quickly discovered Nancy dead from a gunshot wound to the head. A very small amount of cash had been taken from the register, but Nancy's wallet was left untouched. When the police arrived, they interviewed the neighboring stores who hadn't heard or seen anything suspicious. No one did, however, report seeing a strange man of medium build with reddish hair sitting outside the store at midday. This particular description aligns with the previous one given by eyewitnesses.

There had been a robbery about a month before in the same plaza at a Hallmark store. The criminal had lured the two workers into the back room where they were then sprayed with an unspecified aerosol. I'm assuming it was like a pepper spray probably. Before the thief escaped with $200. There were similarities between the two cases that the police were looking at leading them to consider that the idea that this murder had been a case of a robbery gone wrong which is obviously the case in all of these situations. Like that was their immediate thought because of the

The tills being open, the registers being open, and money being gone. So, you know, obvious assumption there. However, they also acknowledged that it was an early afternoon on a Sunday and no stores would have had much cash anyway, thus leading them to believe more that this was purely an act of killing and not simply just a robbery. Frustratingly, no one saw the killer walk in or out of the store or plaza. And four days later...

Only four days later, on May 7th, the I-70 killer would strike for the final time.

So just four days later. Yeah. It's such a rapid pace. About a three and a half hour drive from Charles, 27 year old Sarah Blessing was working in Raytown, Missouri. The I-70 killer had by now killed five people over a month, one month period. And the police were simply nowhere close to catching the I-70 killer. In fact, they had very little information to go on.

They simply didn't have the forensic information available to them, nor any connection between the murders or other than the MO and geographical connection to the I-70. The killer was most likely gaining confidence quickly born from being able to kill and evade the police even after the impulsive mistakes that he had made. But curiously, this murder would be his last confirmed killing. Sarah Blessing was working in her own store, which was called the Store of Many Colors.

She co-owned the small health store with a few friends. The grand opening was just three weeks earlier. Sarah was a married mother of two who loved to write, having even finished her own children's book recently before she died. Sarah arrived for her solo shift around 12 p.m. and began to prepare for the day ahead. She spoke to her husband over the phone at 2 p.m.

At 5pm, a man named Tim Hickman started his shift at a video store right next to the store of many colors. He relieved his mother and sister from their day shift, so he took over for them. Wait, so he relieved them, which means they were there on that day? Yes. Okay, that's interesting. I didn't take in that information the first time.

Okay. Just over an hour later, he happened to look outside the window onto the street when he saw a man walking towards him in the parking lot. The man stood out to him because he was wearing a sports coat. Why would that stand out for him? That's just what was written in the book.

when i was like researching it he might maybe it's not that it stood out to him wearing a sports coat but he just he just saw it and right yeah so that's who knows like oh the man wearing a sports right so he didn't notice him because of the sports coat he just noticed him and noticed he was wearing a sports coat and that was the most like identifiable trait of him gotcha

Not being particularly alarmed, he instead made a mental note of the man before continuing his job. Shortly after, he looked up to see the man stood still at the front door. He stood at the store's door looking a bit shocked at Tim before turning to the left and walking off. Another business owner was interviewed later and also reported seeing a strange man walking in a grey sports coat.

slacks and dress shoes across the parking lot seemingly heading towards Sarah's store. So a coat, slacks and dress shoes not particularly the attire of a homeless person I would say. We were talking about homeless but it could potentially be a homeless person before. It doesn't sound like homeless person close to me. But also what if they're things he just found? Oh you think maybe he found I guess he could have found them. Sports coat?

The sports coat makes it sound like he's a weatherman. What about maybe like a travelling salesman, which would make sense on the internet? Slacks especially. Yeah, perhaps something like that. Man, I wish it was still socially acceptable to wear slacks and do the whole like snapping it on your nipples. So it looks like a sports coat is like a blazer.

Yeah, yeah, it's just a blazer. Slacks, are those the things that you flick on your nipples, like the straps over your shoulder? I thought it was like pants. Pants. Oh, is that what it is? See, all these American words. When I think of slacks, I think of like some fat guy in Boston that's just like, when my daddy started this law practice, like it's one of those people. Like the stereotypical 80s business dude. Yeah.

I was very confused when you said flick them on your nipples. I was like, flick pants on your nipples? How high are you wearing your pants? How high are you wearing your pants? Jordan, would you like to read this quote from Tim Hickman? Please take it away. I happened to glance up and I see a gentleman coming across the parking lot. He had on a sports coat and I thought, wow, that's weird. He did think the sports coat was weird, by the way, Kira.

Maybe the environment of where the stores are. Yeah, maybe it's like a rarity to see someone wearing a suit in the area. Yeah, he's going after real budget, mighty dollar places, isn't he? Or could it have been really hot at the time? When was this? September? No, it was May. Yeah, but regardless, if you're doing it on Wall Street, it wouldn't be strange to see someone in a sports coat.

No, but this was off, you know, in the Midwest. This was in Missouri. Yeah. Okay, so wait, if it was May, that would be going into summer, which would be hot, especially in somewhere like Missouri, surely. Yeah.

He was walking this way. I look up again and he steps right in front of the door. I looked at him and he looked at me. I think it was a little bit shocked because if he scoped the store a little earlier, my mom and my sister were here. He looked kind of shocked. He looked at me like, huh? That's not what I thought it was. I looked at his face. He turned left and looked off. Isn't it strange that no matter where the I-70 killer goes, people are like,

What? And he's like, what? He seems to just strike confusion into the souls of men. He's a very confusing man. He definitely seems like he had previously cased out this video store, though, and noticed that either his sister...

Tim's sister or mum were working there at the time, made a mental note to come back later, assuming that they would still be there. Maybe he timed it after a lunch shift or something like that to come back when the place would be quiet, and then attempt to kill them then. But because they had left work early and Tim had taken over, he realized his plans were in disarray.

And so he chose a different victim. But basically what I'm saying there is like, it does seem like there's a level of premeditation then, right? If he did come earlier and see the victim that he wanted to murder, then come back later. Yeah, that's less impulsive and more of a premeditation. So that's, again, another weird deviation from previous MO kind of.

Anyway, minutes after the killer walked into Sarah's store around 6.30pm, Tim heard a pop. He immediately stopped what he was doing and assuming it was a gunshot, Tim grabbed his gun and hit it behind his back as he ran to the street.

As he exited his store, the door of Sarah's was swinging closed and Tim saw the same man in a sports coat running around the building. Before he knew it, the killer had disappeared over a steep hill. Tim turned his attention to Sarah's store and began to look for her. When he carefully entered the store, unaware if the killer was still inside, he instead immediately noticed Sarah's body laying in a pool of blood.

When the police arrived just minutes later, they interviewed an employee at a nearby grocery store who had been collecting carts. They'd also...

The employee had also seen a man run out of Sarah's store and head towards the hill that then led on to Woodson Road. Another witness came forward and also reported seeing the same man walking down a busy street at 6.45pm that night, just 15 minutes after the murder. When the police investigated the store, they only found a small amount of cash missing. The police, perhaps desperate for help at this point, chose to publicly announce that they were now searching for a serial killer.

They also made the decision to reveal the type of weapon the killer used, as well as the fact that the killer used Jules Rouge on the bullets. As previously stated, they were not guns that would normally be seen, and the Ermey-Werke ET-22, which is the gun that they most likely think was the murder weapon, was actually last used by the German Navy in World War I, so it was suddenly now more of a collector's item. Yeah, see, Jackson, you're more of a gun expert than you let on.

No, I think I probably just... You called it. Well, I've read this document and edited it. Right, I always forget this. Sorry. I probably took that information. Wow, it's almost as if you can predict the future. That time traveller was right from a few episodes ago. I could just stop saying that. Jackson can read? I should just stop telling you that. You'll be absolutely amazed by my abilities in the future just pulling this information out of my head. Yeah!

But no, yeah, so if it was that type of weapon, then perhaps the Jewelers Rouge was used to maintain the weapon and polish it, because it does sound like it would be more of a collector's item. An antique, yeah. Yeah. But again, that's such a weird weapon to use as a murder weapon, then, an antique gun.

The police have also speculated that maybe he had an emotional attachment to the weapon. It could have been passed down through family, been an important item within the family. So maybe part of the process for him was looking after the guns. Yeah. But then using it for murders. Yeah. Hmm.

Maybe he had... This is pure speculation, nothing to back this up. I'm just brainstorming here. Maybe he had... It was a gift from his ex-wife and then due to a bitter divorce or something, he became very bitter towards women and chose to use that weapon to kill women that looked like her or something like that. I just... He's very clearly...

very angry towards women. He's like a... Yeah. He targets... And they all had the same appearance characteristics, right? Very youngish women between 20 and 30. Long brunettes, long brunette hair, slim builds and stuff like that. He definitely had a type. So...

There's some level of obsession on his part and the weapon could be an extension of that for sure. Okay, so two quotes here. Kira, would you like to take the first one?

Sure. So this is Mark Majors on his marriage with Patricia and the impact of her death. So he said, we had an absolute textbook marriage. We were best friends. It actually took me about 13 years to fully accept and get through grieving. I really haven't moved on, but I'm not haunted anymore. That's so sad. Yeah. I don't like reading these surviving husband quotes. Too bad we have to. It's,

It's respectful. Okay, yeah, carry on. We've got another one to go. All right, so this one's from Tim Hickman. Since Jordan doesn't like reading them, I'll read it. It's bothered me for years. Did I act fast enough? If I had not waited so long, they might have caught him. I didn't want to cause a panic. I just tried to do the best I could. That's always, again, this is always the shit that just...

Bothers me the most is the people that are still alive after the fact that have to deal with the consequences of the murderer. Replaying it over and over again. It's so sad. Like...

Death itself is sad, of course, but there's a level of finality to it where at least that person doesn't have to suffer anymore or doesn't have to... The suffering is over. But the suffering for these people continued on for the rest of their lives and is still continuing on to this day. Very, very tragic. Very sad. I know I sound like I'm saying obvious shit, but I feel like to give the respect that this case and the victims deserve, it should be said.

All right, so chapter three, the potential for more. So on September 25th, 1993, a year after the spree along the I-70, a 51-year-old woman named Mary Ann Glasscock went to her shift at Emporium Antiques in Fort Worth,

Fuck me. It's always the most simple words that fuck me up. In Fort Worth. Foreign words. Fort Worth. The issue is that words look the same, but they make different sounds. Like those O-R's in between make different sounds. Fort Worth.

Oh, yeah. Okay. Yeah. I'll forgive you for that one. I was just thinking in my head, what an idiot. But like, that's, you would screw that up for sure.

Fort Worth, Texas. Fort Worth. Yeah. She was working alone when a friend came by the store in the afternoon to see her, but found her dead instead. She was lying near the back room and had been shot in the back of the head. A small amount of money was missing from the register. Police viewed this particular case as an isolated robbery gone wrong. So this was, yeah, a year after the spree along the I-70, another woman passed away. So why was this not determined to be

The I-70 killer, Kira. I know the theory is that it is, but the police didn't conclusively link it, right? Well, it was in Texas, a different area, and also because of the time that had passed as well is what I could see. But similar MO, right? Like, took her to the back room, only a small amount of money missing from the register. I haven't seen a picture of Mary Ann Glasscock, but I'm going to...

probably make the assumption that she fit within the MO, right? Yeah, I don't know. It's possible that the I-70 killer did just move to a different area and started killing there, right? That's entirely possible. And it's only a year gap. That's not that long. What do you think, Jordan? It's very similar. Look, I'm sorry. I just keep getting over and over again with the, a small amount of money was taken. This seems to be more of his trademark than the Rouge, I think. Just the I-70 pickpocketer.

Because if your entire purpose is to rob a place, I feel like you would be entirely intent on taking all of the money. That would be your main focus. Yeah. So in this particular case, I don't see how robbery could be the main motive when he didn't take all of the money and instead murdered someone. Clearly, the murder would be the motive in this situation. So what do we think? Is this one related?

I don't know. I'd have to see a photo of, I'm going to look up a photo of Mary and Glasscock because if she does, if she's a brunette and slim, I could absolutely see this. All right, I'm Googling it as well. You've piqued my interest. She was an older lady. I think she had, it looks like she has shorter hair, but I can't fully tell by the photo. Yeah, she has short hair here. Yeah, well, look, I'm counting her out.

Yeah, she doesn't look exactly... Too far away. Like what I would... Just an old grandma. Well, she was 53, yeah. That does seem like a deviation to me from the appearance of the others, for sure. Weird. Right. So shortly after this case, 22-year-old Amy Vess, which is definitely probably more within the MO...

Amy Vest was working a solo shift at Dancer's Closet in Arlington, Texas, just off the I-35. A terrible running theme here. She was meant to have the day off, but came in to help. That day, a man walked into the store and shot her in the back of the head twice.

Police were alerted to her condition because Amy hadn't yet died. She mustered up enough energy to crawl to the phone and call 911, who were barely able to make out a word she was saying. She managed to tell them that she had been robbed and shot with a .22 caliber gun. Police and an ambulance made their way out to her location and rushed her to the hospital, but she unfortunately passed away the very next day.

Amy was unable to give any identifying information about the killer before she slipped into a coma and unfortunately passed away. But the police were beginning to suspect that there may be a connection to the I-70 killer. This seems like a spree killing in Texas for sure, right? Very similar situations here. 22 caliber gun, execution style to the back of the head. Maybe, okay. So to go back to the 51 year old woman,

Perhaps it is the I-70 killer and he felt that he was rusty after a year, so he chose a more vulnerable woman. Someone who would put up potentially less of a fight. Maybe. Look, the other thing is copycat serial killers exist, right? I've heard that phrase before. Yes, yes, for sure. Yeah? So that's a thing. So this could be someone mimicking that. And...

Rouge was not found, as far as I know, on the Texas bullet casings. And it wasn't from the same gun. It was from a .22 caliber, yes, but not the same gun, I think. From ballistics, they know that. But yeah, I mean, a year's a long time. You probably can go and buy a gun at some point in America. Yes, plus the previous case, when he stopped along I-70, the police did come out and say...

In their public statement, they knew that he was using Jules Rouge on the bullets and also they declared the type of weapon that the killer was using. So if he was paying attention to that, obviously he would know that they knew the information about his gun and the Rouge. So he would swap up that element of his killings from that point on, I would have to imagine, to throw the cops off their trail if he continued killing. So that does fit that he would start using a different gun and also stop using Rouge weapons.

Yeah. I don't know. Execution style murders to the back of the head while taking a little bit of money from the stores. Spree killing in very quick succession in the same kind of area targeting women. It's just too much coincidence, surely. Yeah. Like how often would that have to happen in America? That can't happen that often.

That's why I hear the police began to suspect that there could be a connection. Yeah, it just seems like too much coincidence. And yes, a year is a long time, but not in the grand scheme of things. Right. On January 10th, 1994, so shortly after that, 35-year-old Vicky Webb was opening her store called Alternative... Jeez, fuck me. Why is it the simple words?

Alternate gift shop located in Houston, Texas, near to the I-60. She had a strange day when a man entered her shop shortly after opening where he would then chat to her for just under half an hour. Oddly enough, when another customer walked in, the original customer left before saying that he would come back later.

Eventually he returned and he began to talk to Vicky about meeting his niece near the store. He gazed out a window as if looking for something. He then turned around and asked to see a copper frame. And when Vicky turned her back to him in order to find the item, he shot her in the head.

Like Amy, Vicky miraculously initially survived the attack. Scared, she played dead while the man took $100 from the till and then dragged her to the back of the counter where he then pulled down her pants. He went to shoot her in the head again, but the gun jammed. He laughed while Vicky continued to play dead. 15 minutes after he fled, a couple walked into the store and discovered Vicky immediately calling for help.

miraculously Vicky survived this ordeal she actually had an unknown abnormally large spinal column which helped lodge the bullet between her second and third vertebrae dude how metal how metal is that yeah Jesus that is so lucky that is so it's also just like miraculous like if he shot anywhere else she would have died

And then the gun jammed? Yeah, and the gun jammed. And the gun jammed. That is absolutely crazy. The level of dice rolls that had to happen there for that to happen. She had to have an abnormality in the spinal column. The gun had to jam. He had to shoot it in the exact spot where that would happen. That's crazy. That is so crazy. Isn't it incredible?

She was paralyzed and went through months of rehabilitation, but she was able to eventually walk again. There was also now someone else alive who had potentially seen the killer up close. She described him as looking weathered, being in his mid-30s, as well as being very thin with a tan that someone who worked outside often may have. She also noted that he had long, blonde, shaggy hair. Okay, so that's different to the red hair that was described previously, though.

Yeah, but, you know, strawberry ginger. Could it have been lighting? Yeah. Yeah, lighting. I mean, I always used to mistake the strawberry ginger kids for blondies. True, yeah. Because they never said it was bright red hair. They just said it was reddish. Yeah, like a reddish hue from the sun. Very thin with a tan. Thin with a tan. Yeah, it's Texas. Everyone would have a tan. What I want to know is how tall was the guy? I think it was five foot seven, wasn't it?

Originally, but this guy. Oh, right, yeah. Because you think 5'7 is an interesting detail? I think it's an interesting detail. Well, you know, just a little bit shorter than normal.

So she said that he was a short Caucasian man who appeared around 5'8". Gaunt, slender, reminiscent of a jockey, very tanned skin, was ruddy and leathery. That, to me, is you can make some kind of connection with them if you've got roughly around the same level of height. All the other details to that seem like...

A year goes by. Yeah. You could have visited a solarium in that time. Well, you can't change height. Huh? You can't change height. You can't change height. Yeah. Although he does seem to have gained an inch nonetheless. I mean, it could have been a growth spurt. No, I think there's no height mentioned here, is there, Kira, in this particular part? I think you were referencing a previous quote. No, no, no. That was from Vicky. Oh, this was from Vicky. Okay.

Yeah, in the New York Post. So she described him as 5'8"? Yeah, a short Caucasian man who appeared around 5'8". I mean, yeah, that's her word. She's saying it's short, not me. I'm glad that you're taking the heat on this one, Vicky. Where's the description from before? I'm actually curious now. It's crazy. She still has the bullet lodged between her C2 and C3. They didn't take it out? Oh, yeah, you wouldn't want to get rid of that. No, keep it as a prize.

I don't think they could safely remove it. Yeah, surely. Surely that causes some kind of like illness inside the body though, like all the metal. I think, I don't know if illness, but I think she's still probably suffers. I can't think of, I can't say the word, but she still suffers from the incident.

Like what? Like some sort of pain in the- Yeah, probably. For sure. And also on top of that, every time you're at the Tom Bradley airport or whatever, that'd go off and they'd go nuts. True, yeah. Oh, my God. That's a- Oh, my God. I could not imagine how hard it would have to be to explain to American customs, guys, I'm not carrying bullets. I have one in my spine. They're not going to buy that for a second.

They're easily the toughest customs on earth. Yeah, for sure. Also, okay, so I just found it. And this is interesting. He was described as 5'7 in height by the eyewitness who found him at that double murder. So 5'7 and now 5'8. This is very close in detail for sure. Okay.

Thinking about and passing the information this way, as we've just discussed it, this does actually make these Texas killings pretty believable to have been linked to the I-70 killer now, in my mind. I don't know about you guys, but there's too many details and connections here that it's kind of hard to pass up on. Yeah, I'm back on board with you. I'm with you, Jackson. Yeah, sweet. Sweet.

Sweet. Thanks for that. Thanks for your support. No worries, man. You've earned it. Okay. No, but that's so fucking incredible that Vicky survived and was able to give that testimony. Like, absolutely insane. Okay. So she acknowledged a likeness to the I-70 killer when she was shown the sketches of him. There was no confirmed evidence linking these Texas murders to the I-70 murders, but many, including myself now, and I guess Jordan through...

aspect of me. But many believe that they are linked and it is something that the police have not ruled out. Kira, what do you think? I think it's highly possible. Highly possible? Like 80%? 80%. 80%. That's a big number. Yeah. Okay. Can you read this quote from Vicky, Kira?

Yes, so on the attempted murder, she said, I didn't even realise it was me who was falling. It all felt like slow motion. But the first thing that crossed my mind was, please, God, don't take me. I have a 13-year-old. If he didn't think I was dead, I would be dead. And it was very easy to play dead because I could barely breathe. I was completely paralysed by the neck down. And how scary would it be as well,

When he left and you can't move and you're just waiting and praying that someone will find you. Yeah. Especially because you've been shot in the neck. You have to be bleeding profusely. And she said that in her thing that she could barely breathe. Like she could not get a proper breath in. Yeah. I mean, it's such a remarkable story, honestly. Yeah. Yeah.

Miracles exist. I mean, weird to be saying that about a woman being shot and almost killed, but man, like, I don't understand how she survived that, being shot directly in the back. Someone almost dying in those circumstances always makes me believe, no, no, the Christians have it right. Yeah, maybe there is a God. And it is the Christian God. I need to affirm that. But, like...

It does, doesn't it? It makes you believe. Maybe there's something out there. Absolutely. Again, there's so many coincidences in that. I know.

Another case police suspect could be linked is the murder of Amy Blumberg in 1999, some six years later. 20-year-old Amy was working a shift at her parents' shop located on I-64 in O'Fallon, Illinois. It was New Year's Eve and Amy had plans to meet with friends after her shift to have some fun, but she ultimately didn't show up. When her friends and family went to look for her, she was discovered in the bathroom with the shot in the back of the head.

It wasn't until 2003 when a woman came forward and reported her husband as a suspect that a lead came forward for this case. This man, Edward Phillips, who was already in prison for burglary, was arrested and charged. The ex-wife informed the police that the night of Amy's murder, Edward walked inside their home wearing bloody clothes. He explained that he had actually found Amy, but he was too scared to report it and instead came home, disposing of his pistol on the way. He was ultimately charged with Amy's murder.

Here's a picture of Edward Phillips sentenced to 55 years for the killing of Amy Bloomberg. So pretty similar MO and kind of, you know, similar kind of murder. But six years later, that's a long time. The only way I can see that kind of working out is if

If the killer after Texas, that woman survived, he knows that she survived and he chose to stop killing in that time period because he was so scared of that now. But then six years, something triggered him eventually and he tried again with Amy Bloomberg. But now he had a wife because he was now older. And maybe because of his wife, he had also stopped killing. Maybe he decided to instead focus on his family life. It's possible. I'm not 100% convinced by this one.

Jordan? Look, I want to believe. Well, it honestly would be a nut. This would be the best case scenario because he is in prison for 55 years. So at least there would be some level of cosmic justice there that the I-70 killer would be in prison. It just doesn't look like the guy they're describing, does it? No, but it is 10 years later, right? Or six years later, I mean. I mean, he's really chunked out if that's the case. True.

I suppose actually, yeah, you do every 10 years. You do just get a bit like meatier. Yeah. If he was like mid, if he was mid twenties when he started killing and now he's in like, you know, sorry, early thirties when he started killing and now he's in his forties and stuff, I would imagine that transition would change the appearance.

Yeah, okay. But as we were just pointing out with the Avril Lavigne conspiracy, and I will have to go back to that as a definitive educational moment of my life. And if you haven't checked out that podcast, I think that you should. That was an incredible dive into idiocy. But one thing was that I couldn't get over.

Avril Lavigne hasn't changed that much. No. If someone told me that she was a 20-year-old, I'd think, okay. I mean, she's got some kind of genetic disorder, but she's 20. She looks it. It just seems to be that that 10-year frame, you can't change your appearance that much. I don't know. Maybe he's fat. He doesn't look fat, though. He just looks- No, he just looks a little bit chunky.

It just looks built in these different... Yeah, it looks... It can't be him. He doesn't look like a jockey here, I think is what you're trying to say. Yeah, because they said that he was slim, weathered. His hair is also quite dark. Well, he's also bald.

He's bald. That's the other problem. But... People don't bald. Is this genetics? They absolutely do. Is this genetics or is it he shaved his head in such a way to make him look naturally bald to hide the evidence that he's the I-70 killer? If he did that, he seems a lot smarter than most of the murders would lead on. But yeah, no, he doesn't have blonde hair anyway. Like the base hair colour is clearly, you know, not blonde or red. So...

I don't know. There's definitely inconsistencies here. I don't, I'm like, no, I don't see, I don't particularly think Edward Phillips is the I-70 killer. I do believe now that the Texas killings are connected, but not this particular one. But if you do believe that, let us know in the comments below what your convincing arguments for that would be, because I'm interested in hearing that. All right. So ultimately the I-70 killer targeted women who are petite, young, and with long, dark hair.

Aside from the double murder, all of the victims were alone at the time of the murders. All were shot in the back of the head. None of the victims had any signs of sexual assault, and while all of the stores were robbed, robbery appeared to not be the main motive, as the stores targeted never had much money in the first place, and not all of the money was taken in many of the cases. The murders all took place at times when the stores were more or less deserted, around closing time, or around lunch.

Yeah.

Having been seen by multiple people at this point, the I-70 killer was described as being white in his mid-20s or 30s, 5'7 to 5'9 tall, thin, and having lazy eyelids while also having either sandy blonde or reddish hair. Investigators believe the killer to be now between 50 and 70 years old if he is still alive today.

Ultimately, regardless of the police sketches, the rushed nature of the crimes, as well as the eyewitness accounts, the police were unable to publicly identify any suspects and the case has been classified as a cold case for at least the last two decades.

So those are the events of the I-70 killings and the adjacent cases, whether they are connected or not is up to you to determine because the police definitely don't have, they haven't made that connection official yet. So chapter four, the investigation since. So let's just briefly go over the investigation.

A task force was formed in 2021 consisting of police from each jurisdiction where the I-70 killer was active in order to try to get closer to solving the cold case. So because the killings took place along I-70, obviously that's a bunch of different states like Missouri and Kansas, I'm pretty sure. Like a bunch of different states. They had to have this kind of task force set up to

cooperate interstate basically so far however there hasn't been much progress from this task force an interview with a man named Bob Cyphers which is that's absolutely not his real name right I don't know that's what that's what it all said that's not his real name I don't believe that's his real name Bob Cyphers and he's an investigative journalist that's not a real name

An interview with a man named Bob Cyphers, a journalist who covered the events at the time and who met and spent time with the detectives of the case, gave some interesting perspective of where the police are at recently. Two profilings by the FBI. Oh, so the FBI, they are involved now? I would assume they would be, yeah.

So two profilings by the FBI came to similar conclusions that this killer would prowl along the highway and decide his hunting grounds essentially randomly, picking a store with a girl working alone where he would then ultimately execute her. There was no apparent motive nor premeditation beyond wanting to commit the act against women who were alone and vulnerable. They think he may have had a strong connection to his gun as the jeweler's rouge indicate it was well looked after, frequently polished and treated it

And he treated it as an antique, with it possibly being passed down through his family. So that's what you were saying before, right, Kira? Mm-hmm. Yeah. This particular type of weapon, they noted, was not the one that they would usually see on a killing spree. Bob described the police exploring DNA evidence as a dead end so far, but in terms of leads, they apparently have a clear security tape featuring the killer, but no one so far has been able to identify the man. There you go, Jackson. They do have a tag.

Wait, so is that tape from what we're about to discuss? The Billy murder cure? Or is that a different... I took it as a different one. Surely that's public, though, so people can make tips on it. No, I reckon they're referring to what we're about to talk about. Otherwise, it would be public. They would show that tape.

so that people could identify the man in the tape. Possibly. I took it as a different one, but now I'm not 100% sure. Yeah, I think it's absolutely the one that we're about to talk about because, yeah, I wouldn't understand why they would keep that private if they wanted to. It would be extremely easy to find that if they had another tape, if it clearly showed the individual. All right, so Bob Cyphers on Nancy Kitzmiller's death. This is a quote from Bob.

Jordan, take it away. What a strange place for a homicide. I recognise one of the cops and pull him over. Robbery? No. Rape? Sexual assault? No. Disgruntled boyfriend? No. What's left? We, the police, don't know. This is odd.

For things that have never been said before, Bob Cyphers. I mean, it's... You summed it up well. Good on him. Yeah, good on Bob Cyphers. He's a concise man. He did write a book and I was looking at reviews of the book. Apparently, it is filled with, like, incorrect information and things like that. But I don't know how, you know...

this Bob Ciphers is. But he got that part right at least. It was very clear that the cops didn't know what the motive was and they still don't know what the motive was. Oh my God, that is my biggest fear in life, I reckon. Writing a book and then reading the Amazon reviews and everyone saying it's trash. Is that the only thing having stopped you from writing a book so far? Pretty much, yeah. That and also the fact that no one reads anymore. Yeah, yeah, that's the issue. You've got to make it into an audiobook, a podcast even. Yeah.

Yeah, some might say a podcast. Yeah, that's true. That's the only way that you can do things anymore. That's the only way that people are able to absorb information while they're eating lunch. Yeah. We're getting to the point where you have to split your audio book or your podcast up into 60-second chunks to play on TikTok for people and make sure you put slime videos on the side and Subway Surfer videos on the bottom. Yeah, part 8,000. Oh.

All right, so final chapter succinctly titled Who Could It Be?

Unfortunately, and I hate starting the chapter called who could it be with the word unfortunately, never a good sign. Unfortunately, there are simply not many suspects in the case. One article says that Lonnie Wiseman, a criminal with the name Lonnie Wiseman. Yeah, that's a bad name. A criminal from Idaho was arrested in relation to the murders, but the police quickly realized that he had been in prison during the time when the murders were committed.

There is not much corroborating evidence to support this, however. There was another man, Donald Waterhouse, who was arrested for the murder of his mother and her husband in October of the same year in Ponca City, Oklahoma. The murders had occurred in Tennessee in February 1992 before the spree. So that's what, eight months before the murder spree? No. No, only a few months. Yeah, only like three or four months. Like two, three? Yeah. Huh.

Okay. So the murders of his mother and her husband, would that not be his dad? It's a stepfather. A broken home. Perhaps he blamed... I am being an armchair psychologist right now, but perhaps Donald Waterhouse blamed his mother for breaking up their family. Clearly he killed... Do we know why he killed his mother and her husband? We don't know. Well, the mother...

That would imply some, yeah, like he blamed his mother for something. I'm just trying to assign motive here or make a connection between motive. Like if he killed his mother and her husband specifically because of a slight that he perceived on his mother's part, like he blamed his mother for something, then that would create a motive connection between like then focusing on murdering women in a spree after that a few months later in the same area, surely.

Yeah, I'm convinced. Yeah, good enough for Jordan, as per usual. It's good enough for me. It's not a water house. Well, it's just obvious. Like, as soon as you see how many women, it's like, well, it's clearly mummy issues. Yeah, yeah. Or failing that, like a spousal issue. Or maybe in the modern era, like an incel thing where he's just been rejected one too many times.

The murders had occurred in Tennessee in February 1992, just before the spree. A .22 caliber gun had been used as the murder weapon to shoot the victims in the back of the head, as well as the same brand of casings. Okay, that's way too many connections, surely. Yeah, yeah, yeah. .22 caliber gun, same kind of murder in the back of the head, as well as the same brand of casings.

His abandoned truck was also found later in East St. Louis, right off the I-70. Connections were being drawn, but when they compared Donald to witness accounts of the killer, however, police began to doubt if he was involved or not, with a police detective publicly commenting, quote, I can say that we have other people that look a lot better as suspects than this guy to the news. Wow, really? Wow.

By summer, they said that he was no longer a suspect, but he did receive a 50-year sentence for the murder of his mother and stepfather. Donald was housed at South Central Correctional Center and was eligible for parole in 2021. Due to the lack of DNA evidence of the I-70 killer, it was impossible to forensically tie him to the cases. Man, those connections though, same area, only a few months later, clear issues with his mother. That's crazy.

But I guess it was just the eyewitness accounts that made it impossible for the detectives to finger him as the killer. In 1994, a man named Robert Cox was arrested for a robbery with similarities to the I-70 murders. He had robbed a salon in Texas at gunpoint, but ultimately he didn't kill the workers inside. He did, however, force a woman and child into a closet while he fled. He was also charged for stalking a woman and attempting to break into her house.

He also had a colorful criminal history. In 1986, he had been charged with aggravated assault and kidnapping. In 1978, he was charged with murdering a Disney worker, Sharon Zellers, whose body was found later in a sewer. This conviction actually sentenced him to the death penalty, but the case was overturned in 1990, leading to his release. The police discovered he lived in Missouri during the time of the I-70 murders, leading to them investigating him as a possible suspect, but he has also never been conclusively linked to the spree.

Okay, so that's another potential suspect. No real information there, right, Kira, beyond that? Yeah. I don't really particularly connect that one. I think Donald Waterhouse is so far my favorite in terms of connections. Yeah, I'm going with Donald. Donald sounds way more like it, yeah.

When the task force was created in 2021, a case came up that the police believed could be connected. The murder of Billy Brosman. Billy worked at a liquor store named 7th and 70 that you could actually see from the I-70. So it was that close to the highway. The store was also located near Sylvia Ceramic Store. It was the day after Thanksgiving in 2001. So that's what? Nine years after the fact? Yeah.

Uh, yeah. When a man walked into the store, held a gun to Billy's head, ordering him to the back of the store, where he then shot Billy in the head, instantly murdering him. He took no money at all. The thing that perplexed police about this case is that there was clear surveillance footage that showed the killer's face and filmed the entire transaction. Uh, so that, that,

I'm sure that's probably what they were referring to then, previously, in that previous paragraph. So on the screen right now is the security footage. I mean, this is clearly, like, you can clearly make out the details of the man here. And the full footage is available. How have they not found this man? Look, honestly, he could have just chunked out and he could have gone a little more bald and ended up being Edward Phillips. I do believe that now that I'm looking at a picture of him.

Edward Phillips, the guy from before? The guy from before that's in prison. Well, you think this guy, 2001, the guy that killed Billy was also Edward Phillips? No, now that you say that, no.

So it's either Edwin Phillips or this guy. Or Donald Waterhouse. Yeah, it's everyone that we've just said so far in a short excerpt could be this. But still, no, it's got to be Donald. It's got to be Donald. But this guy in this video right here, well, first of all, he targeted a guy, specifically Billy. So I think that's a pretty distinct break in MO for the I-70 killer. Mm-hmm.

But yeah, regardless, he's caught on camera. This particular killer is caught on camera. Remarkable that they didn't find him. I know that they've released the full footage of the entire conversation. And it's so clear that you can see his face and mannerisms. Can you hear him? I think you can. I couldn't in the one that I had, but I'm pretty sure I read that you can faintly hear the two talking. Okay.

But it's similar to the ICE 70 killer. He first, he made it seem like a robbery. It's like he got the guy to bring out the cash register. But then before he really took anything, he then led him to the back. And then he left and he didn't even take any money. Yeah. Okay. Fair. The footage was shown to the public and the tips began to come in. One in particular said that the murderer lived in Missouri.

They tracked this man down and found that he was a remodeler who would travel the I-70 frequently.

So they did find someone. Yeah. Ultimately, they did not have enough evidence to convict the man for the murder of Billy, let alone link him to the I-70 murders, though. Beyond the execution-style murder itself and connection to the I-70 in terms of proximity, there is very little else linking this murderer to the spree in the early 90s as well. But it is something that people who follow this case point to as a potential suspect.

In April 2022, investigators began examining potential connections between two serial killer cases along US highways I-65 and I-70. The I-65 killer, so every interstate has their own killer, I guess. The I-65 killer identified through DNA evidence as Harry Edward Greenfield.

Greenwell was responsible for at least three motel clerk murders between 1987 and 1990. Greenwell passed away in 2013. Authorities noted similarities between Greenwell and the I-70 killer who murdered six store clerks in 1992. We've already talked about that.

Including a distinctive droopy... So the connections are they both had distinctive droopy left eyes observed in both cases. Despite differences in age, height, and of course the MO, Greenwell's crimes involve robbery and assault, whereas the I-70 killer's did not. But investigators have still not ruled out a connection between the two. I don't know. The crimes of the I-70 killer very clearly seem...

impulsively driven by the M.O. itself, right? Like targeting women and very particular ways of doing things. Whereas, like, so any breaks from that, especially drastic breaks like this, I just don't buy. Like, it's very clear that he was, the I-70 killer was exclusively intending to kill women. So anytime one of these suspects that they bring up has killed people other than women, I think that's too much of a break from the M.O.,

That guy, yeah, look, really starting to clasp its straws after this Donald figure. He's clearly by a mile the favourite to put your money on. Well, he murdered his mother and her husband in the same exact way in the area, used the same gun with the same brand of bullet casings. What else do you need? Surely that's enough to convict someone. Yeah.

Well, thank God you're not a judge. But no. I know with my extensive legal knowledge, especially of the American legal system. No, but like the spree killing started a few months after that as well. That's just so much. It's so much, hey. But he didn't look like the eyewitness accounts. Ah, fuck. I don't know.

Yeah. Okay. So the I-70 killer killed at least six people in the span of a month and then seemingly disappeared without a trace other than some forensic hair strands. The police also possess a wedding veil that the killer used to hold the weapon when he performed the double killing of Patricia Majors and Patricia Smith at the bridal store.

he used it as an attempt to keep the noise down from the gunshots. So like a makeshift silencer of sorts. The police have not publicly indicated that they have a lead suspect, although it is possible that they do. The St. Charles Police Department has a dedicated page for the case where you can submit leads or tips if you have any additional information. But for now, this bizarre case is as cold as it can possibly get. And that's all of the information. That's all of the information that we have. Crazy case.

Absolutely crazy that this guy showed up, killed six people within the span of a month. I'm going to say he did kill the Texas people. Obviously, that's conjecture and my own opinion, not confirmed, but it is my belief that he did kill those Texas people. It's just too, the MO is too similar for me to pass up on.

No, Jackson's really, he's figured it all out. He's done a better job than all of these detectives that have been working on this, I reckon. Well, I've been using information from those detectives, so absolutely not. They did all of the work. I'm not out there. Yeah, but it took you to piece it all together. They were just looking at the jigsaw puzzles. You looked at the whole thing. LAUGHTER

So, as always, credit to you, Jackson. Yeah, thank you. Another case closed. I truly do think this. I think that you were right at the gun every moment.

And I'm putting my money behind Donald for exactly the same reasons that you put out. Well, I'm going to shift the undue praise afforded me by your generosity, and I'm going to instead shift it over to Kira for writing the document in the first place. Thank you very much, Kira, for researching the document and putting this all together. You've done an incredible job. I sense a conspiracy theory. I think that Jackson did it. LAUGHTER

Kira works very hard. Kira always does a very good job at just making it nice and succinct. And I think I want to make the note that she does this all in three days. We only have a three-day turnaround on the research process, really, between posting and editing. We have to get one of these. Well, we don't have to, but getting an episode out each week, it's three days. And she does a very impressive job. So I wanted to publicly...

you know, make that praise made obvious. So thank you very much, Kira, for all that you do for the show. We really do appreciate you. And the audience does as well, I'm sure. All right. So that's going to do it for this episode, but real quick, before we finish up, we've got some questions from our members as well as our patreon.com slash the official podcast supporters. So if you want to ask questions to the Red Thread crew, head on over to those websites and,

And you can support us there. We really do appreciate all the support, whether you're viewing the show, whether you're sharing it with friends, or whether you are supporting us on those websites. And we like to give a bit of value back. So you get early ad-free access to the shows over there, early by about three days. So you get very early access, as well as we read out some of your questions on the show. So this one is from atcast.com.

And they ask, is the reason the killer got away because he was smart? Normally serial killers would get away because CCTV and DNA evidence didn't exist, but this was in the nineties and not the seventies. So unless he waxed every follicle of hair off his body, like agent 47 from hit man, I can't imagine how he didn't leave anything behind. Yeah.

He did leave, I'll answer this question. He did leave some things behind like the wedding veil and there was a hair follicle that was picked up in terms of forensics. So I don't believe he was entirely hairless or smooth. And I don't even believe that he was particularly smart. Okay. So I think he acted in just a completely impulsive way. I'm not saying he wasn't smart, but there were definitely things that he did like a smart person.

would probably have cased out the joint more and chosen a better time to commit murders or chosen a better place to commit murders or done extensive research into casing out these places before committing the crimes. So I don't think he was particularly smart. I would more describe him as entirely impulsive. Impulsive. And also incredibly lucky. Incredibly lucky as well that he was able to get it. And incredibly,

He didn't get away. Like, he had multiple eyewitnesses see him at different times. So, you know, I wouldn't describe him as smart. What about you guys? Yeah, I wouldn't either. Yeah, it's impossible to tell. But I will absolutely go on record and say that he had ADD, for sure. For sure. It's just too quick in and out. Too impulsive. Yeah, so messy as well. Very messy, yeah.

And he, yeah, I mean, there were definitely times where he just broke from certain elements of his MO, which insinuated that he was just entirely driven by this bloodlust and logic probably wasn't even a factor. So this next one comes from at Cthonnaught.

Why do you think this type of killer would just stop all of a sudden? I mean, these types of people plan ahead to kill a number of people and then stop. Was the killer maybe curious how it feels, but after a few murders, it got boring and not as satisfying? What do you guys think? He could have been arrested for another crime. Maybe he died. Yeah. So many variables or things that could have happened. I mean, there was definitely cases where there have been killers killed

who were jailed for, you know, unconnected crimes. And then they got out and started killing again once they were released, like Larry Isler, the interstate killer. He was one such case. So there's a multitude of possible reasons, right? Like he could have stopped because he did grow bored of it, like Gary Ridgway, the Green River killer. He grew bored of killing and stopped killing, which I find just absolutely crazy that that's even a possibility.

It's weird, isn't it? Because I find it hard to say no to a cigarette. Yeah? And that's their version of it. How do you just quit the smoke? Well, it's like any drug. You see this with porn addicts. The constant escalation of what you're watching and what you're viewing

eventually it becomes dull because your, what do you call them? Serotonin? No, serotonin is sleep, isn't it? Dopamine. Your dopamine receptors are so fried by the overload of senses that you keep needing to level up your fix essentially. And you see it with alcoholics and stuff as well. It's all drugs. So with this, I feel like eventually they probably plateau and they stop getting the same feeling that they got

in the first few killings, right? So they grow bored in that sense. I find it hard to believe that they would stop though. I feel like they would find ways to escalate and try to find their fix. I just do not see how they just stop. Yeah, that's what I'm not getting. Surely the solution is to kill more people, right? Huh?

especially in a case like this where he is incredibly impulsive like he clearly has impulse control related issues like you don't just stop in those situations no it's the antithesis of the entire idea of being impulsive it's not the point yeah so I don't I don't think he got bored I think it's more likely that he either died or he was arrested for some other crime let's say um yeah I think that's more more likely you guys agree

Alright, so final question from AtGroomer. Given that most of the victims were young, petite, brunette women, do you think it's possible he is just the world's worst hitman? There's a lot of hitman-related questions here. Yeah, I mean, that's weird. Do you think it's possible he is just the world's worst hitman and just kept taking out women that matched the description and occupation until he eventually got his target? I mean, that's a hilarious theory. Yeah.

It sounds like it would be a great comedy of eras that Rowan Atkinson could be in. Yeah, I could see that as being a Rowan Atkinson film. But since Red Thread is rooted in reality, no. I think that's somehow less than a 0% chance. But thank you for your question. Yes, thank you. Thank you for your question. Really do appreciate it. I alluded to this at the very start of the episode, though.

I do have an interesting anecdote that I found online that I thought was very interesting. Kira, I don't think you've seen this. When I was researching this further today while I was editing the document, I found a particular Reddit post on r slash true crime mystery where a user posted that they felt that their father could be the I-70 killer. And I've taken a few quotes from this here. So quote, and this is from the original poster.

The I-70 killer murdered six people throughout the Midwest in 1992. He was described as being a white man in his 20s or 30s, 5'7 to 5'9, tall, thin, and having lazy eyelids and sandy blonde or reddish hair. In 1992, my birth father was 23 years old, 5'9, had a thin runner's build, sandy blonde hair, and lazy eyelids.

He also lived less than two hours from the first murder and worked out of town a lot during my childhood. I genuinely have no idea if he worked out of town at this exact time. I was one years old at the time, but I know he did throughout that time. So it is possible. And then this is another quote. I spoke to the detective over the cold case and gave her all of my information, which was lackluster. I do not have contact with him.

referring to the father and have not for years I am adopted by my mother's ex-husband whom I call dad that said my birth father was around until I was about 18 so I know him he was a violent man and I do not have many fond memories and then a final quote

A final quote here. He was a gun person. He has owned them as long as I can remember. I honestly don't have a ton of information on him as an adult. I am adopted by my stepfather. He was a violent man, though, who very much hated women. My mother still has back issues from abuse from him. I was abused as well, but don't have many memories before the age of 12. I do know that he...

I do know that he did that work, owned guns and was violent. Referring to the work on the road, basically. He was traveling a lot on the interstate. Obviously, I believe it is an uncanny resemblance as well. He was a cross-country runner back in the day too and competed at state level, so he was very athletic and quick. I know that I would not at all be surprised if he had done something like this. And then we have pictures here. If you want to open this up, Jordan, the first link here at the very bottom. Wow.

So the sketches, uh, the eyewitness sketches are on the right. There's a, there's a picture of what they, the police expect him to look like now after he's aged. And so this top photo is a picture of this, uh, Reddit posters, dad on the left. And then the, uh,

the sketch on the right from the eyewitness. What do you think? Well, look, dude, at the very least, this guy looks like an unhinged man. I'd never want to go. If you're hitchhiking, that guy's like, I'll give you a ride in my truck. I'm not accepting that. But look at, again, I have some form of face blindness, but to me, they look pretty damn similar.

What do you think, Kira? I feel like you're probably better at this. I feel like it does look pretty similar. The nose looks... It's the nose, yeah. The... Oh, the nose is on point. You're so right. The lips are pretty on point.

We've got to remember, so the killer would be, well, her dad, she said he would have been around 23 at the time of the killings in 1992. This picture of him on the top left here is clearly him older. So, you know, when she's older, probably, you know,

early 40s so if he was if that man on the left there was 20 we should we should generate an ai picture or something ask ai what he would have looked like when he was 20 uh because that's what the sketch would have been more like looked more like um yeah man i think the connection it's pretty damn strong dude that's pretty on point and the second sketch is a bit the sketch is a bit older and a bit more gaunt but all the main features are there uh which second sketch

The older one. The bottom one? Yeah. Yeah, okay. So the bottom sketch, the one we're showing on screen right now. So the sketch itself is the police department's recreation of him, what he would look like now, what they suspect the killer to look like now. And then I believe that picture on the left there, the comparison, is her grandfather. So her dad's dad, basically, trying to show what her dad may look like now.

Again, pretty damn similar, right? Like the eyes. Look at the eyes. Yeah. Look at the eyes. I feel like the eyes are pretty damn close in both situations here. But then it gets even more insane. There's a second link here. If you want to open this one up, she found a yearbook photo of when he would have been around 18. So pretty close to the time of the killings. What do you guys think of him there? Do you think he looks similar? Whoa. So this is her dad at that time.

Yeah. Hang on. Sorry, my internet's loading. Man. Oh, damn.

What else have you got to say? Pictures worth a thousand words. That is really similar. Holy shit. The only thing that's missing is the little bum fluff mustache. Yeah. So he was like, this was a year. So it would have been like 18 or whatever at this time. It would have been 22, around 22 at the murders. He would have absolutely grown a little mustache and, you know, shaved his head. But the facial features themselves, like the eyes, the nose, the eyebrows, everything.

Yeah, it's fucking him. It's him. All right, I've changed. It's not Donald. You're off the hook for now. How crazy is that, though, that this random Reddit post could potentially be the solution to this? Fuck. Isn't it so scary? Look, now I feel bad for serial killers these days. It'd be so hard to get away with multiple murders now. Yeah, thank God. I don't know why you went at an angle of feeling bad for them. Well, you know, everyone's got a job, you know.

How would you do it these days? You've got CCTV everywhere. Your phone records your every move. All this weaponised autism on Reddit and 4chan and whatever. Like, it's impossible. Yeah. You can't do it now. This is crazy, though. They look too similar. So similar. And you factor in the... He was...

probably divorcing the mother around the same time abusing her hated women very violent man uh the same height man the ears are on point same height like same general height and stuff like sandy blonde hair lives less than two hours away man i hope the detectives are following up on this reddit post because that is very what do you think kira

Yeah, he looks very like him. She says she's reached out to them. Yeah, but that was, I think the Reddit post was from a year ago, if I recall correctly. Did I include the Reddit post? I'll have to add that to the document. But yeah, crazy. Absolutely crazy. I was like shocked when I saw, because usually you see like Reddit posts like that and you click on the link and you're like, this guy's, this person's insane clearly and seeing things. But even my facial blindness ass can see the comparison here.

Like it's very, very similar in my opinion, man. All right. That's going to do it for this episode. Big thank you to both of you for joining me, of course. And thank you to everyone in the audience for watching a patron.com slash the official podcast, official. Men for ad free content, as well as, you know, asking us questions like that. Really do appreciate the support. If you could share the show around, that helps immensely. Thank you very much for doing that, but that's going to do it for the red thread. You guys say goodbye.

Bye, guys. See ya.