65: The Setagaya Family Murders | Red Thread
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He spent the afternoon in the living room, sipping barley tea and watching a comedy rerun he didn't quite understand, but he laughed at anyway. The cushions had just the right give and the blanket draped over the armrest still held someone's warmth.

A drawing, crayon rockets and a sky full of potential was pinned to the wall beside the television. He looked at it for a while, then turned back to the screen. At one point he stood to water a wilting plant on the windowsill, then sat again, folding into the space like he'd done it a hundred times before. Downstairs remained undisturbed. He hadn't gone back down since the early morning. There was no need. The living room, at least, didn't smell of blood.

Yeah, that's a scary intro. No Jeffrey Epstein this time. Just a pretty solemn introduction to this week's episode of Red Thread. Hello, welcome. I'm Jackson. I'm joined by head researcher of the Red Thread department, Kira, as well as, what would I call you? Local gadabout, Jordan. There we go. The self-described man. Contributed.

Welcome, welcome to this week's episode of Red Thread. We've done a few goofy episodes in the past. Now we're back to things that are going to make Jordan cry and regret that he ever came onto the show in the first place. We're talking about the Setagaya family murders, which, yes, they don't sound too good. That doesn't sound goofy at all, in fact, or fun. It's a depressing mystery about a family slain. Jordan, assumedly, you have never heard of this one.

No, and this is just depressing episode after depressing episode, isn't it? Last time we were talking about drop beers and they're extremely carnivorous. And now we're looking at the Japanese equivalent of that, which is a wild man that works at the post office. I assume it goes in that. Snapping, yeah. Yes. It is always interesting that a lot of the Japanese murders are some of the most interesting

over-the-top barbaric acts of murder in the world, I think it's to do with the way that Japanese society represses itself. And so the things that do slip through the cracks just explode in the most over-the-top and insane ways. Not saying that's what happened here, but it is a trend. You look at a lot of the well-known murders from Japan and it's some of the most disgusting stuff from across the world, like the world itself, basically, in terms of serial killings. Yeah, look...

That is a theory. My theory is, when it comes to the Japanese, I think that it's just part of their ethos of gunabate. If you're going to do something, do it well. Do it to the extreme level? You mean go all the way? Do it to the extreme level. Go all the way. Go hog hog. It's just, you know, they've got the best ads in the world. They have the best anime. Yeah.

They've got the only anime, really, when you think about it. They're probably the second best pop in the world. Huh? I said they've got the best anime in the world. They've pretty much got the only anime in the world. They've got a monopoly to the point where Korea doesn't even bother. We won't compete with them on that. We'll stick to low-quality dishwashers, right? Uh...

So I just honestly think that when it comes to the Japanese, it's always – I thought about that a lot as well. When you read about Japanese history and there's some shogun that's coming to the top, you always take it way too far and you think, all right, you made your point about a million people ago, you know? Yeah, it's time to slow down a bit.

Don't you think? Yeah. I honestly think it's just that they just take everything to this art of perfection and it goes, I blame tea pouring ceremonies, frankly. That's what I'm saying. What an odd connection. Yeah.

No, but yeah, so the Setagaya family murders, this was a very tragic slaying of a family over in Japan. Very, very, very, very sad situation. On top of that, very mysterious situation, which is why we're covering on Red Thread. Kira, would you like to talk a little bit about the mysterious element to this, as in what makes it so mysterious?

There's so much evidence that was left behind at the crime scene and there have been like no leads at all, pretty much. Yeah. It still remains an open case. There's still people working on it and rewards. What do you mean by evidence left behind? We're going to get into that. It's very interesting. Of course we are. Yes, we've got many hours to fill. There's going to be a lot of conversation around the evidence left behind.

I was kind of astounded, but this was prior to events like 9-11 where suddenly security was so much tighter and there was a lot more progression in things like DNA and evidence testing and stuff like that. Forensic evidence, yeah. Yeah, and even now it's still unsolved. It's pretty crazy. Yeah, I did a lot of research into why the case is still unsolved even in...

lieu of there being an enormous amount of forensic evidence available. It's quite interesting. It comes down to a lot of Japanese laws and stuff. So we'll get into that later on.

But a major problem with this case, beyond the English-speaking community online translating Japanese sources incorrectly, is the persistent swell of misconceptions combined with glaring gaps in understanding. This is kind of like a disclosure before we get into this, because we are dealing with a different country's crime, and most of the reporting available online and through sources is in Japanese. So it naturally makes it very difficult

for us as well as other people who research the case to get a genuine grasp of all of the evidence. It's just there's translations upon translations at this point and it's very difficult to ascertain what's true and what's just like conjecture basically. This is compounded by the fact that we have a mountain of evidence or clues that paint a fairly clear physical profile of the killer yet the motive or specificities are far more hidden than many may suspect.

As most of the information is sourced from English translations, a lot of the sources inherently have mistranslations or speculations passed off as facts that make it very difficult to narrow down specific details.

A lot of the information alone is pure speculation and conjecture. The best source of investigation or information, sorry, that we have found that seems to have expended a lot of time and energy investigating the case, in the English world at least, is the work of a man by the name of Nick Obregon, who produced a podcast titled Faceless, which you can find on Spotify and stuff. It'll be linked in the sources below in the document.

We highly recommend this source. This is the one that I found most helpful. It's basically a man that spent a lot of years investigating the case, uh,

compiling all of the information directly from the investigators of the case. I know for a fact that he spent about 10 hours interviewing the lead investigator over in Japan. So that's straight from the horse's mouth, basically. It's very good information. Beyond that, outside of that, a lot of the information basically contradicts itself in most cases.

most other sources that I've found. So yeah, pinpointing exactly what is true and what isn't is quite difficult. I would honestly just kind of recommend that podcast, which is titled Faceless. Again, linked in the notes. We're going to do our best to keep it pretty accurate. But as we don't, none of us here speak Japanese. Do you speak Japanese, Jordan? Do you have a hidden talent?

Christ, no. I used to be able to speak Korean. You used to? How do you lose that ability? And even I believe that close enough because why would I bother to do it here ever to impress some people? How good did you speak it? Basically like a two-year-old. I could be like, I'm hungry. I'm thirsty. Okay, so I was like a tourist basically, that level.

A little bit more than a tourist because I did my tour in Korea for a year. And so I had to live there. That's right. You lived there for a bit. Yes. So, look, I assume that these two languages are close enough. No, not at all. Not at all. You might even be worse than us for even assuming that. Yeah, I know, don't you think? Yeah.

Shows your level of education on the matter. All right. Yeah. So I just want to put that forewarning out there because obviously we're dealing with a serious topic. We might get stuff wrong. I highly recommend that source specifically. If we get stuff wrong, let us know. I will be going through the comments and I will be basically...

highlighting anything that we get wrong just to make sure that correct information is spread. This case was very interesting. I really enjoyed looking into this in that there was a lot of unique elements to it. Like Kira said, the evidence part of it was very fascinating. But also just the fact that this happened in a relatively quiet place

uh town kind of well off town in japan somewhere where you know crime isn't that common so it does seem it did have a lot of interesting threads to it so i'm very uh interested in going through this with you and kind of letting you know the details jordan because i think you will find it relatively interesting

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44-year-old Mikio Miyazawa lived in Sadagaya, Tokyo with his wife, 41-year-old Yasuko, and their two children, 8-year-old Nina and 6-year-old Rei. Mikio was known as a hard and diligent worker employed by a marketing firm based in London called Interbrand, while Yasuko worked as a kind and patient teacher. Kira, did you know what kind of teacher she was? Was she like a high school or kindergarten teacher?

No, sorry. No? No details on that? Regardless, she was a teacher. She was loved by the community. The entire family seemed to have been well-liked. Both parents loved their children. Their oldest, Nina, was an active child, playing soccer, actively participating in ballet, and always lighting every room she entered with her larger-than-life personality.

Ray, her six-year-old brother, was struggling with a speech impairment which the family was trying to work around, but he was still a curious and adventurous child who was determined and full of life. They were, in the best sense, a typical family. They worked hard, loved each other, and each day they were thankful for the time they got to spend together. We were just talking before the episode how that couldn't be further from the truth for your family, Jordan. Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha! I just married a family. Don't know how lucky they've gotten. Ha ha ha ha ha!

No, yeah. Typical family means something different to many people. LAUGHTER

I want to get it on the air that I love my family. I'm sure Kerry does too. Jordan has no comment. The Mirza family lived in a standard home, but some have misconstrued to have been a duplex. So duplexes are houses that basically look like a house, like a standard house, but they've been split in two, so two different families can live in them. So the theory was, or sorry, the rumors that I've seen are

kind of, you know, espoused out there online is that they lived in a duplex. In reality, though, they were two separate homes with one home belonging to Mikio and his family, while the other housed Yasuko's maternal family, which was her mother, sister, and brother-in-law. Now, these homes were fairly close together, like close enough for people to suspect that it was a duplex, like within walking distance, but it does seem like they were entirely different homes, which might explain

Perhaps why the other family, the second half of the family, didn't quite hear all of the commotion that may happen in the future. The family seemed to enjoy this particular living arrangement, even though the homes themselves were poorly built, as they were close and able to spend a lot of time together. Next to the house was Soshigaya Park, which contained a skate park and children's playground, but the city was planning on expanding the park.

In the 2000s, Setagaya was one of Tokyo's most affluent and peaceful residential wards known for its quiet suburban streets, family homes, and its proximity to parks and schools. Basically like the ideal place to raise a family. I don't really know what, I guess that's where we live right now, right? Kira, this is probably the most ideal place to raise a family. Like you're not going to raise a family in Brisbane, right?

No, well, I mean, people do. Well, I spit at them. I look down on them from up here where I live. No, only... It's not as bad as, like, I don't know, deli or something. It's not that terrible. I mean, it's probably smelly as deli is. It really stinks in Brisbane, but...

But like, I don't know why you picked easily one of the most habitable cities on earth as your hellhole. It's not a hellhole. I just, I don't know. I couldn't, I couldn't imagine raising a family in a city, like a city. I don't know.

No, you want suburbs. That's exactly what you want for kids, don't you? Yeah, that's kind of my vibe. Anywhere that has a bunch of emergency sewer drains where a few kids tragically will get washed away for a long time. Yes. You know, like little boys need to be running in little sewer pipes. That's honestly what I think. Like you don't have a good childhood without it. Storm pipes were extremely dangerous in our childhood, but it didn't stop us from adventuring down there. No, no. No, you have to do it.

That's initiation. Yeah, you don't have those in Brisbane or cities. Come on. Storm hives. Yeah. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. Yeah, like it's a suburb thing. And I don't know why that's my only defense of them, but it is.

I suppose also the fact that you've got room for a trampoline, which I think is also... Well, it just seems more peaceful. Suburbs seem more peaceful. Whenever I'm in a city, I can never feel relaxed because there's just so much going on around me. Maybe that's a mental disorder of mine. Maybe I'm sensitive to that. You've clearly got problems, but it's also just a thing. It makes me itchy. It's a bit of a place.

Does it? No. I'm just not good at crowds. I'm really not good at crowds. I just feel very uncomfortable. So, yeah, that's probably the main thing. It's honestly astonishing that we're talking about this as Brisbane being this

Shinzen-like metropolis in your mind. And look, we're talking about Tokyo right now and you're sitting there saying that Brisbane makes you feel comfortable. Well, Tokyo was great. I would probably choose Tokyo over Brisbane.

Yeah, it's a bit unfortunate about that, isn't it? Yeah. I think everyone on planet Earth wishes that they had Japanese citizenship and the only people that don't wish they were Japanese are the Japanese. Yeah, it does seem that way. When we visited Tokyo, you can look at the hotel window and it stretches to the horizon. It's so enormous and so impossible to kind of take it all in. And yet I felt more comfortable there than I have in Brisbane or Sydney, for example.

I don't know why, but I did. Neither. I just think it's got something to do with the fact, and you had this with Korea as well, they sort of figured out what human beings need better than they did. For instance, I'm on the highway at the moment, and one of my choices for nutrients here, McDonald's and BP, that's what I've been living on for the last day. I don't think that that's possible in Tokyo.

You've got stuff everywhere. You'll always have a wide array of different sorts of octopus anywhere you go. Having said that, though, like we said, people who live in Japan don't seem to like it for various reasons. So maybe they haven't figured it out. Maybe we are just actually tourist-brained anime weebs who have been indoctrinated by media to like Japan. But, I mean, it's great to visit, so I don't know what to say. I don't know what to tell you. I know my feelings.

I love it. I think that's our feelings. Our feelings are that we are weebs. Weebs. Yeah. Unfortunately. And I wish that we weren't. All I can say is we weren't the worst, Jackson. We really weren't. Yeah. No, absolutely not. Oh, man. It was a lot of embarrassing white people there. Oh, yeah. I felt ashamed of my race when I was there.

Well, I think when... So many Akira haircuts. Yeah, when non-anime weebs, which is probably the best version of weebs, to be fair. It's the best version of weebs. Yeah.

Yeah, so despite technically being part of the sprawling metropolis, it retained a neighborhood charm. Tree-lined roads, low crime, and a reputation as a safe upper middle class area ideal for raising children. The neighborhood, Kami Soshigaya, was actually a lot quieter than it had been in the past with the extension of the park causing most of their neighbors to have moved out in the late 90s.

where there were once 200 families living there in 1990 when they first moved into the area. It was now only four families. The Miyazawas, their family next door and two other families nearby. Now, I don't know if it was four exactly. I did look into it a bit more and it seemed like one of the houses may have been abandoned. So it could even be three families in that particular neighborhood. Regardless, everyone had moved out. Essentially, the Tokyo government or the government who was in charge of that prefecture moved

wanted to expand the park and was basically buying up the property so that they could then expand the park, which is rather interesting. So these families here, these last final four families were the last holdouts, basically.

I don't think that plays into any kind of... There's some conspiratorial elements of the murder. Some people believe that the murder may have been committed by government officials who wanted the park expanded. I haven't seen any evidence that points to that. I think it's just an element to the story. Regardless, I'll continue.

One part of the area that was not quite, however, was the skate park, which was directly behind Miyazawa's home. Those who hung around the skate park were often loud and a bit rowdy, disrupting the family in their day-to-day activities. The family planned to move in March of 2001, but there was a bit of hesitation when it came to the idea of moving, as it would be a challenging ordeal acclimatizing.

acclimatizing the family to a new surrounding. But they were becoming more and more frustrated with the situation that surrounded them. I'm assuming a lot of that situation had to do with the government pestering them to move out, maybe offering money for them to move out, on top of the fact that the skate park had become a bit of a hotspot for teens and loud kids basically all day. They were definitely having some problems with that from what I was able to source.

So, yeah, I'm sure they wanted to move, but it sounded like they were also having a bit of trouble with Ray and his speech impediments. So maybe they didn't want to, you know, further complicate the home life scenario by moving the children in that situation. And also, how hard would it be to give up that house? Look at it. I mean, it does look exactly like the Japanese Amityville horror. That's one downside against it. But look at the location, Far Out.

Yeah, I mean, it's not a bad... It's a fairly nice neighborhood, a fairly nice part of Japan, of Tokyo. The house itself wasn't well built, but you can't hold that against them. So yeah, maybe... It wouldn't have been an easy decision to move on from that, I'm sure, especially since they live close to their family. Sorry, the maternal family. So the mother's family lived right next door, like I said before. So...

It seemed like they enjoyed aspects of the living conditions, but some other aspects had caused them to want to move. All right. So chapter two, days before the crime, there's a little bit of a chronological history here of the days just preceding. Is preceding before? Yes. Yes. Pre, pre, pre means before. Yeah.

I'm so tired. Words don't make sense. Preceding. All right. Yeah. So preceding the crime, a little chronological history here. So December 25th, 2000, on Christmas day, Yasuko had spoken to her father where she mentioned to him that an unknown car was parked in front of their house. She seemed to indicate to him that this wasn't a once-off occurrence as well. There was parking nearby that was meant to make

access to the park easy for visitors so the family found it strange that someone would choose to use their driveway this way they were a bit on edge at the time because Mikio had recently confronted some loud teenagers at the skate park due to their antics and just as a reminder Mikio was the father

Reports suggest that those spoken to by Mikio were likely members and I'm using likely very loosely here. This is likely from the sources I read online. I personally didn't see much evidence to suggest this, but it's what people are saying online. So yeah, he likely members of the Bossozoku, a Japanese motorcycle gang that had a bit of a reputation for being aggressive. The day before,

The date of this particular confrontation is unknown and the information about the confrontation is predominantly based on speculation. I will also add here that

The source I was talking about before the Faceless podcast said that he also interviewed members of the skate park, people who had frequented the skate park. And there were some people who claimed that they were part of this verbal confrontation with Mikio. And they basically said that they just... They said sorry and that they'd promised to be more quiet, basically. So it was a fairly...

you know, amicable ending to that confrontation. So I don't know of the validity of the claim that these were members of the Bosozoku. It doesn't seem very likely to me, but I'm choosing to include it in here since it is something that is talked about somewhat frequently. Do you have anything to add on that, Kira?

No, you pretty much summed it up. Okay, perfect. Yeah, well there. Okay. So December 27th, 2000, an eyewitness saw a man estimated to be around his 40s walking around the home of the Miyazawas. At the time, nothing struck the eyewitness as being particularly out of the ordinary with the park being close by. But now they look back at it as suspicious given the events that would come to follow.

Yeah, so this particular account sounds like someone was just walking by the house. And then later on, once the eyewitness heard that a murder had taken place, they obviously connected this. That happens a lot in cases. I'm not sure if it has any kind of bearing on this particular case. I wouldn't think so, since it is a park and a lot of people were frequenting the park.

I'd be interested to know if the person, I couldn't see anything, that was walking around the house was close to the house and acting suspicious or looking in at it, or if it literally was just walking past on the street. You would think for someone to take notice of something like that, there would have to be something suspicious about the behavior in the first place, right? Yes. Whenever I'm driving down the street or whenever I'm out and about,

I see a million people walking down the street or walking by houses and stuff. And I could not, I'd be a horrible eyewitness. You find it all suspicious, don't you, Jackson? No, no. I do the opposite in this particular situation. I'd be a horrible eyewitness. I wouldn't be able to, I wouldn't be able to tell you a single thing about anyone I've seen on the street. And it always amazes me. So yeah, you saw like a guy in a hockey mask with a chainsaw walking past. Like, well, you know, there's trees there and the local council sometimes needs to remove them and stuff.

Yeah, I could rationalize it. I'm so bad with dates, I'd probably think it was Halloween and it was just fucking... I'd be like, oh shit, we got... Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It was December 27th. Yeah. It's Halloween. We got to get back home and put some treats out for the neighborhood kids. No, I'd be horrible. I would not be a good eyewitness. December 29th, 2000, not far from the family home, a man was seen at...

Seijo Gakunome Station. I witnessed descriptions of the man. I don't know if that was accurate. I think. Seijo Gakunome Station. Sounds right.

Sure. Eyewitness descriptions of the man claim he was wearing a skater outfit with a backpack, which stood out to the witnesses as due to the weather, he seemed underdressed. The same man on the same day is believed to have purchased a sashimi knife, which was a long, thin kitchen knife from the nearby supermarket, which would actually come to be a prominent detail coming up.

I think that station, Saijo Gakunome, Gakuenme Station, is fairly close to the family home. So this in particular is probably the most important detail, I would say, up until this point. All of the other information, in my opinion, like the other eyewitness accounts,

Especially the one that estimated a person to be around his 40s walking around outside the home don't fit the other details that come out about the case. So I don't really pay them much attention. But this particular one, due to the knife specifically and the outfit, seems to be something more substantial.

Okay, so December 30th, 2000, another sighting of the same man was believed to have been made at Sengawa Station, which was very close to the family home, around one to two kilometers by an eyewitness. So yeah, this man basically was frequenting the stations around the area, basically, which would indicate that...

Later on, if this was the correct assailant, he had to travel to get there. So he wasn't from around the town.

The family themselves had a normal day on December 30th, which was a Saturday. New Year's was just around the corner with it bringing all the promises of a new century. Either some... Do you remember back... You would, I wouldn't, but you remember all the fucking hype around the year 2000 and how all the computers would go down, like the Y2K shit? Do you remember that specifically? Oh, yeah. What are you, like, 30s? You're early 30s, right?

Yes, I think I was probably seven or six at the time, but I do remember very vividly. Really? Was it scary? Yeah, absolutely it was scary. Interesting. Very, very scary. I...

remember everybody being freaked out about the Russians because it was more or less a failed state and we thought that all of the nukes would fire off in the Soviet Union. But as always, they've just got a way better system than we do or, you know, the vast majority of the... Well, our nukes didn't go off either, to be fair. Our nukes didn't go off either, so we're equal. Yeah, an extremely large silo of zero...

You're welcome, world. The Soviet Union doesn't get credit for their nukes not exploding. I'm sorry, you don't get to give them that credit that their nukes didn't accidentally explode. No, that should be a given if you're operating nuclear arsenals.

Oh, totally. Like I'm very, let me just say this. I'm quite stern about them letting them go off, but I'd say that given the circumstances, um,

The Soviet Union collapse wasn't that long ago. The president of Russia was a drunk and didn't seem to be that concerned about it at all. And the Americans were spending tens of millions of dollars updating all of their systems to make sure that it didn't tick over as a zero, because that was a legitimate theory, that it was just going to tick over, the clocks would get confused, and then all the nukes would just launch at once. So they were making sure with all of these software updates...

Coming up with all these technological feats to ensure that that wouldn't happen with backups to go into it. And then the Russians just turned the clock back so that the nukes thought that it was 1980 again. Cost them nothing. Uh-oh. Cost them nothing. Well, do they have to do that once every 20 years? Yeah.

But they just forget to do it. Well, are they perpetually living in 1980 now? They just set the clock back. Yeah, the glory days. That's awesome. Yeah, I mean, hey, that's cost effective. I will give credit where credit is due. That is cost effective.

Don't you think? Once you hear that, you're just like, yeah, well, it shouldn't have gone back. But then the way that it didn't go back, you're just like, well, they're the smartest people on earth and the cheapest. Yeah, the cheapest. Yeah.

Yes, that was a brand new century. Very exciting times. Either some or all of the family, information varies, went shopping around 6pm, which aligned with a neighbour seeing their car missing around 6.30pm. Yasuko called her mother via telephone to have a normal chat around 7pm. It wasn't out of the ordinary for them to call each other instead of walking over to the second house.

Most likely, she had asked her mother if she could watch her granddaughter. As we know, Nina went over to the other side, the other house, to watch TV until around 9.30 p.m. The last known activity of the family was at 10.38 p.m. when Mikio, assumedly, opened up his password-protected email and read a work message. And we know that because the ISP was able to determine when that computer connected to the internet.

at 10.38pm and forensics was able to see what the computer was doing at that time. Basically, we know that was the last time that a family member accessed the computer. Chapter 3, The Murder.

Someone walking along the path behind the home heard loud arguing out of the house around 10 PM that night. They talked it up to a family argument, not hearing any noises besides some verbal yelling, which didn't sound too threatening at approximately 1130 PM estimated due to a known TV program, which was on at the time in their house. Yasuko's family on the other side, uh,

the other house, heard a loud thud through the walls. Just after this, another witness saw a man walking rather hurriedly down the path right next to Miyazawa house. It wasn't until the next morning when Yasuko's mother Haruko tried to call her family through the phone that she discovered that there was no response from the family. This immediately caused concern. Regardless, Haruko became suspicious and immediately visited the home. When she received no response after ringing the doorbell, she entered to find the slain bodies of the family inside.

The Miyazawa family home consisted of two floors and an attic. It is believed that the killer entered the home through a window on the second floor into the bathroom, but this isn't known for sure as there were no fibers found in the window frame to corroborate this theory. And yeah, there were footprints found in the mud below the window, however, which could support the idea, but it does seem odd that no fibers were found in the windows. Given the plethora of other forensic evidence left behind, it doesn't

I don't know. There's conflicting information or conflicting ideas about whether or not they believe that the assailant entered through the window. There's another theory that the...

that the assailant climbed up on top of a car and basically hopped up onto the balcony of the home and then entered that way onto the second floor. So it's not known the entry point definitively. But yeah, he entered the home around this time. Regardless, it is believed that the killer had entered into the kid's room first where the youngest was asleep in his bed. Ray was murdered first with forensic evidence determining that he was strangled in his sleep. He was actually the only family member murdered this way.

It's possible that the second victim was Mikio who was found next to the bottom of the stairs on the first floor. There have been some different theories surrounding the murder of Mikio with some believing that he was awake late working when he heard what was happening and then confronted the killer where they had a physical alteration which resulted in him being thrown down the stairs which would account for the loud thud heard that night.

Others, however, think that he may have been upstairs and was instead working on the first floor where the killer had found him. Regardless, Mikio was brutally attacked with a sashimi knife, which is known due to the fragments of the knife that were discovered in his skull. Mikio was stabbed repeatedly over his entire body, with lacerations being found on his neck, face, thighs, arms, and chest. His death was determined to have been caused by blood loss

From one of the chest wounds. So I think a sashimi knife... Let me have a look at a sashimi knife. I don't think it's probably the optimal knife to kill someone with. I think that they're more dainty, like fragile. Yeah, more fragile. Yeah, they look quite...

thin. I mean, you clearly can kill someone with it. You can do it with someone, easy. But I think probably a person experienced with murder, let's say, probably wouldn't choose this as their first weapon. It seems like more of a weapon of opportunity. Like it was perhaps the only easily purchasable knife from a convenience store, for example. Yeah, it's the first weapon you get in a video game, isn't it? Yeah, before you get the upgrades later on down the skill tree. Sure. Why not? Yeah.

Yasuko and Nina were sleeping in the attic, a floor only accessible by an unfolding ladder from near the bathroom and raised room. There was a conflicting idea that the large thud heard around 11.30pm was actually the fold-down ladder being thrown back up into place in the ceiling roof. The killer decided that he couldn't continue using the sashimi knife. He instead obtained a general kitchen knife that belonged to the Miyazawas from their kitchen on the second floor before finding Yasuko and Nina.

They were then stabbed to death. The bodies of Yasuko and Nina were found at the bottom of the ladder, stabbed to an excessive amount, as clarified by the police detectives, with the stabbing found to have continued past death. So very, very excessive, obviously. Crime of extreme passion. This wasn't like, this wasn't clean, let's say.

It is believed that they were in the middle of attempting to escape down the ladder when the killer had trapped them between the ladder and the stairs down to the first floor. Nina was also found with missing teeth, suggesting that she was beaten by the killer at some point. And Nina is again, the child, the daughter. Very tragic.

If the idea that Yasuko and Nino were murdered last and the attic unfolding ladder was thrown into the roof with a thud after they had been murdered, this would place the final murders at some time before 11.30pm, but after 10.38pm as Mikio had accessed his password-protected email at that time, indicating that he was still alive. So that gives about an hour time frame where the murders probably took place. And I have to imagine that the murders would have taken place in quick succession.

very quick succession since it seems quite frantic with Mikio at the bottom of the stairs on the first floor and the mother and daughter both of them basically being found together it seems to insinuate that this was a very rushed ordeal

It does seem to suggest to me that the son, Ray, was murdered first, given that he was strangled in his sleep. I don't think he would have slept through hearing the rest of his family members be killed. So it does seem like he was killed first. I've seen some speculation that that meant that he was the target of the murderer, perhaps. I disagree with that. I think it was more so that he was unfortunately in...

In the room, that was the entry path for the murderer. And, you know, the murderer came across him first, basically. So I don't think it was, I don't think the motive was to murder Ray. I think it was, was to kill the entire family. And Ray was just the first one found.

So throughout this segment, we've been displaying some pictures of the layout of the house as well as replicas of the house showing what the house looked like for further visual clarity. So if you're an audio listener, you've got video on Spotify now, but you can also watch the YouTube video to see those pictures if you need to.

Chapter 4: The Discovery and Investigation As we mentioned before, in the morning of the murder, Haruko Yasuko's mother had tried to call the family on order to make plans for that afternoon. A little concerned, she walked over to the other side of the house and rang the doorbell, but there was no answer. A feeling of dread washed over Haruko when she decided to use her own set of keys to let herself in, already suspecting that something was wrong.

The home was silent as she cracked the door open, the air heavy, and it wasn't long before she came across the fallen and bloody body of her son-in-law, Mikio. Somehow, even when confronted with the horrible sight of a murdered body of a family member, she was pushed on by a desperate need to know if her daughter and grandchildren were safe.

Man, I don't know what I would do in that situation. It's so hard to put yourself in that mind frame. I don't know if I would have the mental... I would just freeze. Yeah, I don't know if I'd have the mental strength to actually go up the stairs. Yeah, me too. I'd be too scared. Like to go up the stairs not knowing if like the sight of your murdered daughter and grandchildren. And you also don't know if someone dangerous is still there. That too as well. Yeah, you don't know what to expect. I don't...

But I get why she would push on because she was desperate to know if her child and her grandchildren were safe. It's just such a difficult situation to comprehend. Well, I reckon she's obviously panicking at this point. She's not thinking. Yeah, yeah. It's all flight or fight.

Unfortunately, after climbing the stairs, she quickly stumbled across the body of her daughter and granddaughter. She had recalled to investigators that very moment when she dropped to their bodies in a desperate attempt to check the puzzles with her shaking hands to no avail. She then found young Ray still in his bed. Both shocked and immediately traumatized, Haruko left to call the police immediately. Haruko was sure that the door was locked when she entered and she needed to get the key to unlock the door. So there isn't

There wasn't an immediate or certain answer as to how the killer had left the crime scene. I would have to imagine he left the way he came in. Like, that's the only thing that would make sense to me. It's not like he's going to lock the door on the way out. You could. I mean, he would have to take the keys, right?

I did see as well that some, I think only one, I remember reading this in one report that over time Haruko was becoming uncertain if the door was locked when she went in or not. But,

she was getting like obviously she was getting a bit older so the details would be fuzzy and a consistent theme was that she had to grab her own set of keys to lock the door unlock the door yeah yeah i do remember reading that i'm assuming it is was blocked i do remember reading a source that said that she had gone to the home knocked or rung the doorbell to no avail then gone back to her home to collect the keys to come back and then let herself in so yeah i i'm assuming it was locked

Um, and I'm sure that would have been specified otherwise if it wasn't from like police reports and stuff.

Yeah, so no immediate answer as to how the killer had left the crime scene. Perhaps the most chilling aspect of the crime is that we know that the killer spent hours in the home after the murders. Both murder weapons were left bloody in the kitchen to be found later by investigators. The investigators also found the family first aid kit, which seemed to have been opened by Yasuko and Nina as some of the bandages were found with Nina's blood on them. This could possibly be from when the killer grabbed an all-purpose kitchen knife during the assault on the women, but

When the sashimi knife, the sashimi type knife wasn't working anymore. So the theory is that the killer had attempted to use the sashimi knife on the pair, but had found it ineffective. So they had left to find a better knife. And in the period of time between that, Yasuko and Nina had attempted to bandage Nina's wounds.

There were also menstrual products found with blood on them, and the investigators theorized that the murderer had perhaps used those products to clean themselves up from whatever injuries they had sustained in the ordeal, as the products had unidentifiable blood on them that wasn't connected to the family. And from all the information I read, it seemed to suggest that the murderer had actually done a fair bit of damage to himself in the attack, and there was a fair...

bit of unidentified blood left at the scene connected to the murderer. So it seemed like that leads me to think that there was a fight put up. He had cut himself in the process. So he was, to me, that kind of indicates that he was an inexperienced and, um, what would you call it? Uh,

It was like a crime of opportunity almost. He just came in and basically there was no kind of real planning ahead. And again, inexperienced, it would lead me to think. I don't know if you have any input on that, Jordan. Well, I'm just fascinated by the next line after this, which is the murderer had also gone through the fridge and then drank some barley tea and ate some melon. Yeah. And took four ice creams. Man, that's...

Imagine killing a family so you could steal some ice creams. I don't think he... I'm going to squash that one in the butt. I don't think that was the motive. You don't think? No. This is the whole thing. You don't know, do you? True, yeah. You got me. He could have done it. Because why else are you killing a random family? Ice cream is a motive.

The ice cream was just there. It does speak to a chilling level of... But why is he eating and stealing ice cream? Why is he waiting there for three, like, I think at least like three hours he was in that home after the murders. That is like... What the hell? Insane level of like calm, I guess I would say.

Use the upstairs toilets? Yeah. So they also sat on the couch, looked through the family's belongings, and the killer also used the upstairs toilet where they had left unflushed feces in the bowl that the police had discovered the following day. So he didn't even flush his turd. Act of dominance? Yeah, I mean, the disrespect... Do you reckon that's what it is?

It's very disrespectful. I mean, it would take two... Honestly, yes. I do think there's an element of disrespect there. Like, it would have taken two seconds to flush that. And it would get rid of your DNA evidence, potentially. But no, he chose to leave that there. That's a choice, right? Definitely a choice. All of this is a choice afterwards. This is the most perplexing part.

Isn't it so strange? It's just like, look, murdering a family, I get. I've heard it before. I have never heard someone sit down and start watching TV. When you say I get, you mean that, like... Yeah, like, I get the murderous rage and impulse to kill a random innocent family. No, no, no. We understand that, but, like... Yeah, obviously I don't. But, like, I'm saying that, you know, you get...

Like you've heard that before. You've heard it before. That makes sense. But like, not sense, but like somebody who is insane would do it. Yes. The weird part after that is just sitting around at the family house and just being like, oh, Jeopardy's on, nice. What? Yeah, exactly. What are you doing? You're just sitting around in the house. Eating a melon.

The idea that I have, and I think I've seen a few people comment on this again, is that he was obviously injured after the attack. He was inexperienced, so he had cut himself a lot. There was blood found everywhere. I think the most likely situation is that he needed time to basically collect himself and bandage himself and heal himself up, basically, before leaving. And I guess there was...

Since there were no police sirens or no noise or no one, it was seeming like there was no one that was going to interfere on the situation. He felt like it was probably the safest place to just lay low for a little bit, which I suppose is... Yeah, I mean, what other reason would he have? I don't know. It just seems honestly mad to me. It really does. It's unhinged. Isn't it?

Now, anyway, sorry, other people might be disturbed by more of the facts here, but for some reason that really does freak me out. I don't know why. Which part, the toilet?

The toilet's just a bit like, oh, well, that's very rude, isn't it? But just going through the fridge and being like, oh, sweet, milling. Like, what? It is. Again, it's mundane elements that are more upsetting. Well, it's like existing in the space where you just killed a family and then utilizing all of their stuff and using their toilet, eating their food.

Yeah, it's like an element of disrespect. And I think it does show some level of motor from him, perhaps. And this is speculation, but perhaps where he felt like they had wronged him somehow and he wanted to get one up over them by using their stuff. Like, I think that is... Okay. Well, I think, I mean, again, speculation, but I think it is evidence to suggest that perhaps.

So family documents, sorry, yeah, so he sat on the couch and looked through the family's belongings and he also threw family documents and items into the bathtub and toilet as an additional level of disrespect to the people the killer had slain. So yeah, I mean, he's throwing documents in the bath and toilet and stuff. Like there's no point for that. It's clearly like disrespectful. Yeah, he's trying to be disrespectful. He's trying to assert dominance, it sounds like.

They also used the family's computer at 1.18am, a couple of hours after the family was murdered. They opened up a bookmarked page of Shiki Theatre Company, which was bookmarked because Mikio had a passion for theatre and would sometimes work there. The killer attempted to purchase tickets... What? I haven't seen... I haven't seen any direct evidence to suggest that. It's just kind of conjecture online again. Couldn't confirm, but apparently the killer attempted to purchase tickets...

There was also activity on the computer around 10 a.m. the following morning. Police had believed for years that this activity was also from the killer, indicating that the killer had stayed at the residence for around 10 hours. But it seems... Yeah, it's not true. But it seems that the most logical and believable idea is that Yasuko's mother, Haruko, accidentally bumped a mouse, the computer mouse, in a shock at discovering the body of her son-in-law near the computer, which resulted in the mouse falling off the table, which accidentally woke the computer up, which then connected to the computer

the computer to the internet, which was set to Michio's company website as the homepage. So essentially this activity at around 10 a.m. is likely attributed to this accidental connection as opposed to the murderer. This lines up with Yasuko's mother going around to check on them between 10 to 11 a.m. and the police being called at 1056 a.m. The police are only able to determine that the killer was in the house up until at least 123 a.m., which is when the computer was last interacted with.

This information means that the killer likely spent at least three hours, so the time between 10.39pm and 1.23am in the house. And...

I mean, again, 10.39pm is the last time that Mikio connected to the computer, so he could have entered at like 11.30pm. We don't know for sure when he entered the home. It just couldn't have been before 10.39pm probably. Although I guess it could have been because he entered through the top, the second floor and murdered Ray first, so it could be around that time. It's hard to know, but regardless, he at least spent two hours in the home from at least 11.30pm

p.m. through to 1.23 a.m. The crime scene was filled with forensic evidence left behind by the killer. The police found footprints, fingerprints, bloodstains that did not match any member of the family, the murder weapon, and a collection of clothing that did not belong to the family either. This suggested the murderer had dumped his clothes that he was wearing and instead left the house wearing Mikio's clothes. For the clothing items found at the crime scene, there was also a hip bag, also known as a fanny pack, right?

Yeah, that sort of thing. So a hip bag found with reports and media claiming that there was sand found from it, sand found within it from Southwest America with some reports specifying that the sand could be from Edwards Air Force Base in California. But this information is not reported on the Tokyo Police Department's case files, but it is corroborated from what I read from a scientist. I can't remember the name of the scientist, but it's a scientist, a prominent and

well-respected scientist who was able to basically determine that the sand came from a specific beach in California next to an Air Force base, which is rather interesting. That's the level of sand-based forensics that we have available to us. This is honestly...

Like out of all the evidence in the case, we've got blood, fingerprints and stuff. This sand is potentially the most like forensically valuable information we have because all the other stuff can't be linked to anything. But this sand was linked to a specific beach in California. It's just kind of mind blowing to me that sand has that much forensic kind of value. I didn't know that. I thought all sand was the same.

It's crazy. That's incredible, isn't it? You can get that. You can get the specific beach based on the sand. Wow. It's impressive. It is. There's people out there with entire careers based around determining where that sand came from. That's crazy. Wow.

The bag was very worn, small, and was determined to have been available for sale between 1995 and 1999 in Japan, but it was produced in South Korea or manufactured in South Korea. Police were also able to find traces of hair throughout the bag. So again, the fucking broad scale of forensic evidence available to police in this situation. You got hair, you got blood, you got fingerprints, you got the murder weapon, you got footprints. You've got, you know... Clothing size. Yeah. You got sand. You got sand.

And still, this is a mystery for a reason. Yeah, the shoes were an interesting point. The killer actually took them with him, likely because Mikio perhaps wore a different size of shoe. Investigators were able to determine that the shoes wore, they were a British brand of shoe called Schlesingers to be specific. And it is believed that the shoes were manufactured in South Korea as well. Police investigators believe that the size of the shoes were either 29 or 29.5 centimeters. I don't know what that is in English,

Australian or UK or US. They must use a different sizing convention in Asia. I don't know how... I'm looking at my feet now. 11 for men. Oh, okay. That's my size. 11 Australian? Yeah. Okay. Well, that's not... I mean, I have fairly large... Well, above average feet. Have you got a normally large feet? No. Well, what size shoe are you? Yeah, I reckon I'm about 11 as well, but I've got really wide Hobbit-like feet.

What would you describe my feet as, Kira? Have a look at my tootsies. Normal men feet? Normal, but like... Normal men feet. Are they wide? I don't think so. I think they're just normal. So they're pretty on point. So basically, Jackson is a suspect in this murder. Well, so are you. More or less. No. Yeah, we're both 11. My feet are too wide for this. You don't know that. Yeah, actually, I don't know that either. See, I can flip the script on you. LAUGHTER

The smaller size is available for sale in Japan, while the larger was not, though it was available for sale in South Korea. The shirt left behind was also a strange item. This particular thin sweatshirt had only 10 sales in a store in Tokyo called M slash X that was now closed. The total sales for the whole country was only 130.

Which makes it a collector's item. 130 people own this shirt. That obviously doesn't preclude like... It could have been like resale or it could have been a thrift store. But from what I understand, it's not a cheap fit, let's say. A lot of these items are rather expensive. So there was people theorizing that the murderer could have been just like a homeless schizophrenic man.

It does not seem that way considering the price of some of these clothes. They're not necessarily cheap.

They're not like design or anything. They're not hundreds of dollars, but they're not something you would necessarily expect a homeless person to be wearing, for example. Yes. Okay. There was also a scarf left behind that the police could not track the origins of, but the investigation seemed to find evidence that it was potentially sourced from a free giveaway at a place like an arcade. There was also a bucket hat, a jacket, and black gloves left behind, which smelled like the cologne Dracar Noir, which was a classic and popular fragrance.

These particular items were popular and more common and so weren't very useful in the pursuit of narrowing down a suspect. There were two black handkerchiefs, however, one from the brand Muji that had a three centimeter cut in the middle. They could have been used to handle the knife during the murders. Police investigators recognize that this is a Chinese fish workers technique to prevent the knife from slipping while working.

That's kind of interesting. Though it's impossible to know if there is a connection there. There was also a trace amount of red dye found at the crime scene, which created some interesting theories that the killer or the Miyazawas were involved in producing methamphetamine, as it could possibly be linked to the red dye used in making meth. I don't buy that for a second.

That seems like an internet, like a Reddit rumor, basically. Speculations. Everything's about meth. Yeah. I don't think this family was making meth out of their home. And if they were, I think there would be more evidence to suggest that. And I think, I don't know. I mean, it's possible that like, let's spin up a hypothetical here where the murderer was like involved in the drug trade or something, perhaps like criminal underbelly. Maybe.

But I don't think there's enough evidence to make that determination. Yeah. So the outfit itself, we've got a picture here of all the clothes because remember, he left all of this behind. He basically swapped his clothes into what we assume is one of Mikio's spare clothes, basically, and left all of his clothes behind.

um yeah so he's i would i would describe it as like streetwear almost from like the early 2000s what i imagine streetwear looked like back then yeah he basically looks like the singer in the song freestyler okay i don't know what that's very standard look i'm gonna look bomb funk mc freestyle like something that you would wear with that era oh right okay let me look

That is kind of like skater streetwear. Yeah, this is streetwear. That kind of look. Yeah. Okay. When you were in year six, you would have really wanted to look like this killer. Yes. Very cool. Yeah. But that leads me to think that this person was probably between the ages of like 15 and 25. It definitely seems like a more youthful kind of clothing choice. Yeah.

They do describe him as useful. Yeah, that adds into the element of inexperience on the murderer's part. Like he obviously, what would you say? He acted with impulsive, reckless abandon, basically. And he used a sashimi knife. Like there are elements here that definitely paint a picture of someone between the age of 15 and 25, for example. And then you also have to add in the fact that it was near a skate park. You know, there's theories around that.

Milford

Millions of people had their fingerprints checked and the police ran the DNA through testing multiple times, but nothing was coming up with a direct match with the killer seemingly having no previous criminal record. When they investigated the DNA left behind, they were able to confirm that the killer was a male, had a mixed heritage, with some evidence suggesting that the murderer probably had an East Asian father and a Southern European mother. This information was apparently sourced from a second opinion that the Tokyo Police Department released

sought out and had received from a local university. It was then leaked to the press. So,

There's no direct confirmation about this, but it was leaked. As such, it's not considered confirmed forensic evidence. However, when they dived into the forensic information further, the police department came to the possibility that the killer was not Japanese and was potentially not in Japan anymore at all. They believe that the killer's father could be Korean or Chinese and asked South Korea for help in identifying the culprit. The South Korean government...

and reportedly did not cooperate with Japan, but this was later seemingly proved to be incorrect in that they did cooperate with Japan. But the conclusion suggested that the killer was not South Korean by nationality. In the press released...

in the press release released by the police, they described the killer as quote, relatively young judging by his clothes, was around 170 centimeters tall, wore large sized clothing including his jacket, wore a pair of 27.5 centimeter size shoes based on left footprints, 280 in Korean size, was slim, length of hip bag belt, 83 centimeters, actual length of his waist, 70 to 75 centimeters and was probably right-handed. The level of information there

is like astonishing, right? Like that really paints a picture. Outside of just like details about physical appearance, there is so much information here that... Heaps. Yeah. So, Kira, would you like to read this quote out as well from the police talking about the perpetrator? Yes, sure. So...

The killer was a male of Asian extraction. A police source told the magazine Japan Today his DNA carried a marker from his father that occurs in one out of every 13 Japanese, one out of about 10 Chinese, and one out of every five or so Koreans. Based on the... Mitochondrial. Thank you. DNA. His mother had an ancestor originating from the southern Mediterranean area, probably around the... Adriatic.

Thank you. You're welcome. Thank you for reading it out. That doesn't matter. That's talking about 10 generations ago or something. Yeah, exactly. Mitochondrial DNA is like not the, it's accurate, but it's obviously not the most deterministic source of figuring out someone's, you know, appearance or anything. Definitely not. It could be, we could be talking about like 10 generations, like,

like you just said. So a lot of this evidence wasn't very helpful, but it does seem to suggest that perhaps, you know, he comes from... He was Asian. Yeah. We've cracked it. It's incredible, isn't it? That first paragraph has just brimming with things, you know, he probably liked Linkin Park,

He probably tied his left shoelace first. Yeah. I'm guessing that he likes KFC. Like, they're just so detailed. And then the second one just basically sounds like my results from Ancestry.com. Yeah. He took a 23andMe test before he left the house and left it behind for the detectives. All right. So, chapter five, motive and suspects. Wait, did I read this last bit?

No. Oh, okay. Before I get on to chapter five, if you're wondering as to why no DNA connections were made positively, even with the abundance of DNA evidence collected, and I see a lot of people online on Reddit, subreddits and threads and stuff. They want to know. Yeah. Wondering why, how, how, how could there be this much DNA and no connection made? Yes.

So,

So it's not like the government has fingerprints of every Japanese citizen or DNA profiles of every Japanese citizen on file that they can compare it to. That just doesn't exist. Like you need, they need to be in the database already, which means they probably needed to either willingly offer up their, you know, DNA to police departments through like work applications, I guess, or, or maybe through traveling through international transit or,

Do you remember when we went through Japan, Kira? I'm pretty sure we got our fingerprints scanned, didn't we? Yeah, we did. Yeah. So they must collect it now, but they definitely didn't before 2007. So yeah, they just had no connection. They couldn't connect it to anything because the fingerprint records or the DNA wasn't in the database. So that's why it's a very simple answer, very frustrating answer, sure, but...

I mean, it's the answer. Japanese law at the time also did not permit the use of DNA evidence to infer personal characteristics like physical appearance or ancestry, meaning that this hindered advanced forensic techniques that might have offered more insight into the identity. I believe that has been somewhat worked upon and the law has changed since the murder, most likely due to this murder as well because there's so much outcry about it.

Chapter 5. Motives and Suspects. There were some strange possible sightings that apparently occurred in the 24 hours after the murders that were revealed in the ongoing investigation.

A taxi driver later reported that in the very early hours of the morning the following day, New Year's Eve, he picked up three men from somewhere close to the family home. They never gave their names, were middle-aged men, and one had a wound that left a blood stain in the back of the taxi. The next day, a few hours after the bodies had been discovered, there was also an unknown man around mid-thirties who went to a medical center in Tobunikyo Station, a few hours north of and a train away from Setagaya. The stranger had a hand wound, which...

is believed to be consistent with the blood loss and the type of attack that the murderer committed. Obviously, if you're swinging a knife around, it's probably likely, especially if you're inexperienced, that your hands are going to be the first thing cut, self-inflicted.

The staff noticed how unconcerned he was while getting treated and took note of what he was wearing and what he looked like despite not receiving any identifying information from him. The unknown man wore a black down jacket and jeans and left as soon as they were done treating the wound. That's relatively interesting to me. Mid-30s though isn't consistent with the other information in my perspective, in my opinion. Seems a bit on the older side for...

Again, who I believe, like the profile suggests, committed the murder. Well, so you don't have to make up a story or tell people a phony name in Japan. You can just walk in and in silence, people will stoically treat your mysterious hand with. I suppose so. Would you have to give a story over here? Surely. You come in with a lacerated hand. It was, I was gardening and some rose thorns scratched it. It was a snake bite, miss. What did you say, Kieran? Yeah. Yeah.

It might have been different back then. And it seems like it was just a little medical center in a train station. So maybe the atmosphere was different. It's also Tokyo. And even though Japan gets a reputation for being a very safe place, I'm sure that it's not an uncommon occurrence for drunk people to hurt themselves over in Japan and require medical assistance late at night, let's say. So...

I don't know. It doesn't really seem too unbelievable to me that they didn't take any additional information. The taxi driver, though, with the three people, that's relatively interesting to me. There were no other information that suggests that multiple people had been involved in the killing. And the reason I say that is both because the blood evidence didn't seem to suggest that and also...

I feel like if there were three people involved in the killings, they would have been able to take more of a controlled aspect to the murder, whereas the murders themselves seem very impulsive and very chaotic. Bodies were found all over the house. And this isn't like...

Uber fare share or whatever. You can't just go into a taxi with other people that are going somewhere else. No. So they're all chums. Yeah. So I don't know. I don't really think either of these situations is too believable to be connected. They were middle-aged too, which is older than what they think. Yeah.

Yeah, it doesn't really fit for me. But I think that we are just basing it off the fact that the hat seems cool. Yeah, I mean, the fit was cool. I mean, 30-year-olds are capable of wearing a cool hat. They are, but I... It's not like they're physiologically impaired from it. I still think there would have been more evidence at the scene to suggest that multiple people were involved.

Multiple people. I'll get rid of the cab one, but the guy just standing there saying absolutely nothing. His hand's getting treated and walking off. Is it suspicious to you? No. It is suspicious. I mean, it's all speculation. I don't know.

A woman also alleged that she was driving past the home around midnight that night when a man came running from the house and practically jumped in front of her vehicle, just narrowly avoiding being hit. When the police looked into this accusation, they couldn't find any evidence on the road like blood that the killer would have probably left behind. The timing is also strange because there was the uses of the computer that happened past midnight. This lead was ultimately dismissed.

See, this is what I mean. Like, it's so crazy to me that like a murder can be conducted on the night and then about 10 different stories can come out from different eyewitnesses being like this, this thing happened nearby that was suspicious. It must be such a headache to investigate all of these, all of these different like, you know, eyewitness accounts basically.

Yeah, totally. There's so many things. Because obviously that woman just saw a ghost. It just came out at midnight, ran in front of her car, and then as a detective you have to sit there and listen to what clearly should be taken up by the paranormal department of the police. Yeah. And you've got to go. It would be awful just going through all of these people coming to you and saying, I saw a man when, like three weeks later. That's pretty sus, right? Can you tell me anything about him? No.

Yeah, no, that's about it. That was pretty much it. And he might not have been a man either. Who knows? Yeah, couldn't get a good look at him. Very vague details. Yeah, constantly. But most of the time it's born from people trying to be helpful. But it's also a lot of the other times people trying to look for attention as well. I think that's a big case. You've also got to deal with people who just genuinely just want to waste police time to feel important. Yes, yes.

Yeah, so it must be very difficult to investigate every lead and give it the scrutiny that the leads deserve, basically.

One of the most important unanswered questions is that of the motive. Could the killer have wanted to steal from the Miyazawas? The killer did steal around 150,000 yen from the home, but the killer didn't take all the money either, as there was around 190,000 yen still remaining at the home, and all of their valuables were left too, other than one of Mikio's jackets, which is believed to have been worn by the murderer.

There were reports that the killer also took holiday greeting cards, but there's conflicting information that suggests that the investigators took them instead as evidence. And I mean, if he did take them, it would be as a trophy, I would imagine. Like there's no kind of value outside of that for a murderer, I would have to assume. So I don't think that it speaks to a motive of thievery or anything. It definitely seems like this wasn't

you know, this wasn't a thief who broke into a house and then was surprised when people were living there. Like he didn't just want to steal things. I don't think there's nothing to suggest that.

The murderer seemed to have combed through the wallets and purses in the house, finding ID cards and credit cards that he may have been trying to find pin codes for to steal money later, but he left them all behind in the living room. The police found it strange that if the motive was robbery, the killer stuck around for a long time afterwards in the house, eating ice cream, using the toilet, and using the computer. He was also incredibly excessive and vicious in his attacks.

Regardless, investigators haven't ruled the theory out as the family lived near a rich neighborhood. The killer may have thought they might also be rather well off and targeted the home because it was easy to break into and further away from other houses.

I just don't buy the theory of robbery at all, considering he was in the house for multiple hours and he didn't take any of the valuables. That's enough time to heavily scrutinize the house for those valuables to take. So if the motive was robbery, he did a very bad job of actually robbing the place. I think what's likely...

is that he found a house that was far away from other houses. Again, there were only three homes basically in this neighborhood. So it was a pretty isolated house. He found people inside there that were an easy target, who he believed were an easy target that he wanted to let his bloodlust out on. And then perhaps in the process, he wanted to

make it look like a robbery perhaps by taking the money or by taking certain things to make it look like a robbery. But I don't think robbery was the motive. What do you think? I'm always very confused. It was the same with the I-90 murderer of them taking tiny, tiny amounts of money.

Yeah, it's weird, isn't it? That one weirds me out too. Like why? Especially when there's more money available. Yes, why? Especially with the I-90, I can kind of explain away as like he was rushed. But this person spent like at least two hours. No, he had all the time. He was eating ice cream. Yeah. He had all the time to look for it. And he eats ice cream as well. Yeah. Maybe he put himself into a food coma and he just couldn't be bothered to...

Steal any more money. Get the rest. Yeah, yeah. I don't know. He was rich enough. I could see it as Rob Rude not being the main motive. But then while he was there and afterwards, he was like, oh, well. May as well. May as well. Because maybe he's like, oh, I'll use it for trains, taxis, stuff. It was just a bonus for him.

Yeah, to me, just the vicious nature of the attacks, him staying there, the disrespect he seemed to inflict on the house itself by using it in that way. It seemed to me like the motive was just bloodlust, like wanting to kill. Do you guys agree with that? I think it is. I think it is.

There is also the theory... Sorry. Yeah, sorry. No, no, you go. You go. No, it's fine. No, please. Go on with your very important story. It's not... Well, it is important. It has to be told. I want to hear from you. What were you going to say? No, it's just... I'm sorry. The detail that weirds me out the most is the theft. Really? The theft does weird me out.

Why? Because it just doesn't connect? It doesn't connect. It really doesn't. Anyway, like I'm sure it wasn't the primary motive, but I would like to know the motive behind stealing some melon. I would really like to know that. Well, I think he ate the melon. I don't think he took it with him. I think he ate it there. Yeah, I know. He took it with him. But that's still stealing. He's taken it with him. Yeah, but I can pretty clearly determine the motive behind that one was probably hunger.

Right. Okay. So you think that if he gets caught one day and they say, why did you have the melon? It's just like, because I was hungry. Yes. For the melon. Yeah. I don't think. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. All right. Yeah. Now that you mentioned it, it's pretty dumb. He was there for multiple hours. In my head, he was there for multiple hours patching himself up and he got hungry. So he looked through the fucking fridge and cupboard and decided to eat that melon.

Yeah, look, honestly, now that you mention it, what the hell else could it be? Sorry about that. You're like an alien trying to decipher human need. You know what? Because I'm probably just sitting there just being like, rock melon? Who the fuck eats that? I hate rock melon.

I hate it when they try and put out a fruit salad. Yeah. No strawberries, no grape, just rock melon. Who likes rock melon? Yeah, it's the purple jelly babies of the fruit world. Then they try to push it on us.

Don't they? It's annoying. I think that's the only reason that it's still made is to put it in fruit salads to bulk them out. Yeah, absolutely. It's like the same thing with like, you know, those like chocolate boxes basically filled with varied chocolate types like roses, I believe they're called, like Cadbury roses. You know, the stuff that you get for Valentine's Day or whatever. Or Mother's Day. Mother's Day was recent so that's why it's on my mind. It's full of like

It's meant to be full of like random, you know, an assortment of chocolate types or whatever. But they always pack them to the brim with chocolates that no one likes. Like the ones like... Like Morrow. Yeah. Like who's going to eat that? Oh, that's so true. Yeah. You're just... You're clearly... What they're trying to clearly do is get rid of like stock or something, I reckon. Like they're getting rid of all their orange chocolate through these boxes, assortment boxes. Because no one wants them otherwise. Yeah.

It's very true, but also why make him in the first place? That is, yeah. That's another episode of Red Thread, my friend. We'll dive deep into the chocolate rabbit hole. There's a conspiracy. Is it what we suspect that Gideon Seashell really is the mother's choice? We'll find that out. Yep. We'll get on it.

investigative journalism will go undercover at Cadbury. There is also the theory of multiple killers. This mainly stems from the taxi driver that picked up the three men that night with one of the passengers having been bleeding. But unfortunately there has been no word if the blood was tested or matched besides a few reports from early in the investigation that suggested that the blood was being treated like evidence, though it could have been a dead end as there wasn't much more information beyond that in recent years. I'm assuming considering that it probably was not connected to

because I think they would be able to determine if that blood matched the blood in the home at least, right? Like sure, you might not be able to connect it to a person, but you can probably determine if the blood is the same type as the blood left at the home. Yeah, if they matched. Yeah, so if they matched, that would be pretty conclusive evidence that that was perhaps the same person. But considering that there was no additional information about that, I think it's unlikely that that person in the taxi was connected because they didn't talk about it later on.

In terms of police reports. The nature of the attacks, however, seems to suggest that the murders were excessive in nature. This psychologically aligns with a motive beyond opportunity and more likely a motive of retribution or vengeance. Basically, it would appear that the murderer seems to have deeply disliked the family and perhaps that is why he targeted them. This is conjecture. However, it's possible that this was also simply a serial killer or murderer who found a family that they believed was an easy target for them to fulfill their bloodlust.

So yeah, it's hard to say. As for the question of why the killer may have stayed at the house for an extended amount of time, the most logical answer is that it was born out of necessity.

The murderer lost a decent amount of blood in the attack himself, as the crime scene evidence suggests, which means that he may have stayed around to patch himself up when he realized no one was coming to investigate the commotion. A big theory discussed is the possibility of those who use the skate park by the house, as they did line up with the description of the killer given by police, which is young, lean, tall, and wearing similar clothes. And there are reports that Mikio had become frustrated with the youth using the skate park as they were loud and disruptive.

There was also the report that Mikio had verbally confronted some youths from the skate park recently. It's possible that this could have led to the skaters or those confronted harboring a grudge. But I will say again that

The source I most believe, again, the podcast Faceless, did interview some of the people involved in that altercation at the skate park. And his opinion, the producer of the Faceless podcast and the interviewer, his opinion was that there was nothing to really suggest that they were gang affiliated or they were violent people. It seemed like they just had a confrontation, promised to keep the noise down, and that was it. All right. Okay. So...

I don't think that that really is compelling evidence. It doesn't seem like it would elevate to eliminating your entire seed from the earth, does it? Especially not in Japan, right? Yeah. No. I can understand why it's been blown up as a theory, but...

it definitely seems like it's probably not connected. Not likely. I think it's possible that the person found the house in the first place by visiting the skate park. Again, not to bang on too much about this, but he was dressed like a skater and he was dressed young. So it's potential. Okay, so it's number one in your mind.

Well, it's number one that he visited the skate park and that's how he found the house in the first place. Not that he was the skater involved in the commotion. Right, right, right. So I think he probably was at the skate park at some point, let's say. Yeah, it is straight up on a Tsukutaga street where you're right. Yeah. All right. He probably has. Hmm.

Well, I mean, yeah, I think so. The sand in the hit bag left behind has resulted in many thinking that the killer might be in the US military. There was a decent US military presence in Japan, so it wouldn't be out of the ordinary to find someone at the Yokota... Sorry, Yoko...

Yokota. Yokota. Yeah. Airbase. Which was less than an hour from Setagaya. But we cannot... But we cannot rely on the evidence of the sand. So this is still just a theory. Also, the bag could have possibly been bought secondhand. There simply isn't enough evidence.

Many also think that the killer could have been a traveler, a drifter of sorts who mainly used train lines to get around, which is very easy to do in Japan and Tokyo. Terugaya was easy to access and maybe the criminal saw an opportunity and knew he could easily get away. There's a lot of conversation about how he managed to get away without being seen. Obviously, a lot of people in Japan use public transport. It's one of the biggest public transport networks in the world. But there is the idea that perhaps he wouldn't have been

brave enough to use public transport after that considering that is a pretty risky thing to do. There's cameras on trains and things like that. So I'm not entirely convinced that he would have used public transport to get away. There's no evidence to suggest that he didn't use a car, like he didn't show up in a car and then leave in a car. And as we know, a car had been pulling into the driveway previously in days before the murder from eyewitness accounts. So yeah, there's a question of how he got away in the first place.

Any thoughts from you guys on that? Were cameras on the trains back then? That's a good question. Japan's pretty quick to technology. I would think that there would be. Yeah, sure. They'd have to be on trains. It depends how rural as well. But this is Tokyo. Here I was just doing a little investigating. Just general, very surface level typing into Google. It says that in the year 2000, Japanese trains did not generally have security cameras.

Some trains, especially those with one-person operations, may have had cameras for safety purposes at the stations. So possibly not. It may have possibly been able to use it to get away. But you've also got to factor in that he was

injured after that. He had probably bloody hands and he was probably looking fairly disheveled, let's say. Surely he was wary of being recognized or noticed by commuters. I know it was very early in the morning, but still, station guards, things like that. I don't know. It's just very risky in my opinion. A car makes the most sense to me. Yeah, possibly. You'd have to dump the car though, surely. Why? Why?

Well, you can't just have a bloody car. Well, why would he? Because he can. I mean, he did, if this is what he did. As a final anecdote, something very interesting was found the following April after the murders not far from the family home. Ejizo Butter... Butter. Jesus fucking Christ, dude.

A cheesy butter statue. Yeah, a cheesy butter statue. A cheesy butter statue. A Jizo Buddha statue. This statue represented protecting children in the afterlife who die before their parents. Some people believe that this could have been left behind by the killer, possibly feeling guilt for what he did. Ultimately, nothing came from this, and it seems to me that's extremely unlikely.

Probably not what happened considering he slaughtered an entire family. I don't think he's capable of guilt, feeling guilt. That doesn't seem like something that he would do. Why are they saying that? There was just a Jizo Buddha statue there. Yeah, found nearby. It's probably left behind by someone sympathetic to the case, I would have to imagine. Not the killer. I think that's a ridiculous assertion.

He shit in the toilet and then he felt guilty enough to come back and leave a statue behind. Nah, that's a bit mean. There you go. I don't believe it at all. That's ridiculous. A lot of these theories I've got to say do suck. Yeah. It's not very good ones. Chapter 6. Still Unsolved.

Over 25 years later, the killer has not been caught for the horrific murder of the Miyazawa family. Despite the evidence, over 14,000 pieces of information sent in by the public, the DNA and fingerprints left behind, the strange witnesses, you know, witness accounts of men that night and the next day, the killer has become smoke in the wind.

The police have said that they will continue to investigate with strong determination until an arrest is made. With a reward of 20 million yen up for grabs for anyone who assists, but there still has been nothing concrete discovered. The lead investigator confirmed that the fingerprints have been provided to Interpol and there is a standing order in Japan for all unclaimed male bodies found deceased to have their fingerprints tested against those recorded in the murders.

They are still very active in this case, from what I understand. So actively testing. So nonetheless, they will discover who the murderer is. Well, no, it's not a guarantee because it could be someone outside of Japan. Could have left the country. Yeah, that's right. Yeah. And it could also just be someone who dies and is claimed by their family's body and they declined due to privacy laws. I think they're able to decline having their deceased family member tested.

It's not that broad. The police believe they are looking for a young man who at the time was expected to be around 15 to early 20s, who they believe to have been living the student life. If correct, that would mean the suspect would be between 40 and 50 now. There are so many possibilities, but due to the evading detection in Japan with all the available forensic information, it seems possible that the murderer may have been a foreigner who was somewhat comfortable traveling around Japan. It's possible...

And this is my leading theory, I think. I think this is the thing that makes the most sense to me. It's possible that the suspect may have been the child of a US military personnel, you know, someone in the US military, the child of one of those people stationed in Japan, as this would explain the age and attire, as well as being able to kind of escape the country without any kind of detection. I know for sure before 2007, US military personnel were able to go to Japan. They were...

fly directly into US Air Force bases in Japan since US and Japan have a very close military relationship and they basically use American customs to get in. They don't have to provide any information to Japan like forensic information. They didn't before 2007 which means that between 2000 and 2007 this person would have just had to head back to America and no forensic information would have had to be provided to America. Sorry, Japan. Which means that

If the murderer was the son of a US military personnel, they could have just left. And there would be no real forensic evidence tying them to it. No real way for Japan to test it either. Jesus. That's crazy. I honestly don't think that the US would tell Japan if they knew that the murderer was American.

And not out of any kind of like... It's definitely more conspiratorial, but I think that it would probably be a bit of an issue for the military relationship between the two countries if Japan found out that...

you know, a military personnel's child basically killed an entire family there. Uh, have you guys heard of the sexual assaults been met that have been reported in Japan at the moment, uh, from us military personnel, basically, uh,

A lot of US military, well, not a lot, but US military personnel have been found guilty of sexually assaulting some citizens of Japan over there. And it has not been, let's say it's not been beneficial for the relationship between US and Japan in terms of the governments, because the Japanese population is not happy at all about the US presence, the US military presence in Japan.

broadly speaking. Right, okay. So, yeah, I think if the US... I know this sounds conspiratorial, but if the US knew that the murderer was the son of a military personnel member, I don't know for sure that they would share that information with Japan. That they might not be providing that information, like fingerprints and stuff, to Japan. So my personal theory is...

It adds up to me that it's potentially an American citizen who basically went back to America and that's how he was able to evade capture, basically. An American citizen with Japanese slash Korean descent. Well, yeah. Mixed heritage, right? Or something, yes. Well, it doesn't even need to be Japanese. I think it was just

broadly Asian heritage. Broadly Asian. Yeah. So mixed with, uh, yeah, I think the other was Mediterranean. Yeah. Something like that. What do you guys think? What's your theory? I still think it's just some random. Really? You just think you rolled in? I think you just rolled in. Well, yeah, I think the motive, I think the motive was still just like basically random, but that's my theory around the suspect's identity. Basically. Okay.

It's not a bad theory, honestly. It's the only one so far that actually sounds remotely plausible. Well, it explains how he was able to kind of... Everything else, what have we got? We've got teenagers pissed off that they were told to keep it down. Yeah.

There was theories that it could have been a hit as well, which I didn't find any conclusive evidence to suggest that. And also if it was a hit, it was done by the most inexperienced hitman of all time who chose to shit in their toilet and leave behind forensic DNA. Plus if it was a hitman, I would imagine or someone with mob ties or criminal underworld ties. I think they would have found the DNA by now considering they're checking it against criminal databases. So I don't think it was a hit.

Nah, nah. It just couldn't be, could it? No. Couldn't be. It sounds like an inexperienced person who wanted to kill. That's what you've got to do, a military GI personnel or someone that lives like a few streets away. I don't necessarily think it was a military personnel, but the kid, like the child of someone like that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that's my theory. What do you think, Kara? I find it really hard. It's so crazy. There's so much evidence, but...

Really pinpointing it to one's motive and possible suspect is almost impossible. Yeah. But I like that theory. It makes sense in some ways. Well, it does explain how they were able to kind of evade capture, let's say. Yeah. And even to this day, it hasn't been identified. Yeah. So it makes sense if they weren't in Japan, weren't Japanese. Yeah.

Yeah. It's really tough. It's a very tough case. Regardless of how much forensic information there is, there's just not a lot of...

you know, concrete evidence that kind of paints a picture. Like even with how inexperienced this person was somehow and all the evidence left behind, it's just mind boggling that they were able to evade capture. It's very hard to fathom. So the home has now been demolished. The park has expanded, but the scar remains. Mikio's mother, Setsuko Miyazawa, was photographed in 2022 at 89 years old in front of 5,000

Daruma, I think they're called Daruma dolls, each with only one eye filled in. The dolls were a gift from Mitsuko Matsumori, a previous detective involved in the case for 16 years until she retired at 64 years old. They promised each other that the other eye on each doll will remain blank until the case is solved. Every day, Mitsuko asks, quote, why did it have to be Mikio's family? There are no answers to that question yet.

This is one of those crimes that I would really love to see solved in terms of finding... And it's possible. I mean, the killer is likely, based on the profiling, to be in his 40s now. So it's entirely possible that this connection can be made within our lifetime, within the next two decades, let's say, while this person is still out there. And the only thing I can say that I hope...

beyond the case being solved is that the murderer is out there and he has spent each and every day of the last 20 years with a terrible anxious feeling in his stomach that today is his last day of freedom. That is the only saving grace. The only hope for me really is that this person has lived in misery for the last two decades thinking that his time is up and that he will be caught. I hope that sincerely.

It is really weird thinking about someone doing it and then just going on with their life afterwards, isn't it? Yeah. It's very hard to reconcile that fact that they were able to lose. And also just not continuing to go on with murders, like say the O-90 murder or something. Exactly. That was enough. It's always so baffling to me when there's this...

extreme outbursts of personality, let's say. Like this extreme compulsive event where they've done something completely irrational, completely just unbelievable. And then they just stop. And then they stop. Yeah, it's so strange. I don't get that one at all. Yeah, because there's nothing else that's close to it in Japan afterwards. That's it. Yeah, it's crazy. That's the one.

All right. Do you guys have any last thoughts about this case before we wrap up here? That old woman looking at the Daruma dolls is very sad, as is that old detective. Yeah. I got goosebumps, like, researching this case because it's just, you know, looking at the photos of the family and the, like, happiness and love for each other just seemed to radiate through the pictures. Yeah.

And knowing what happened to them and their family also being obviously so close to them, it's just tragic, like awful. Yeah, chilling.

Again, the lives affected beyond just the killings is just... You look at that grandmother and you know she's lived with this for the last 20 years as well. Yeah, I know. Yeah, you can tell. It's heartbreaking. And so is the detective. Yeah. The detective has definitely, for sure. That's something that I remember talking to detectives about once. But... Well, you know, you can't... You can't solve them all? You can't solve them all, but there's also just this thing of...

You're kind of trapped at that point. It's not a nice life, really. You see a bunch of awful things as a detective and then you're haunted with it for the rest of your life.

And you sort of can't really do anything else. Yeah, I can't imagine the pressure. Imagine the guilt, the pressure, the pressure to deliver results for this family going through the worst period of their lives. Yeah, it's just, it must be so all-consuming. Like, that's not something where you just clock off at 5pm, go home, sit down in a chair. It's something that has to hang over your head every single day of your life. I was reading

I was reading an article about this detective who is praying in front of the shrine. Yeah, so he is retired now. I think he was in his 70s, but he has still kept in contact with the family and visits the shrine regularly and prays, but also has dedicated his life to, even though not being actively in the case, he talks to the people in it and also makes flyers and hands them out. He's still involved in trying to serve the

this, solve this murder. And I found that a regular theme, like people involved continue to be involved even past maybe their careers and stuff like that. Yeah. Man, that's sad. It is. It's extremely sad. And again, I hope that the murderer is...

I call, this is a red thread call on the U S government to release all, uh, DNA fingerprints of every U S citizen. No, every single one. Release them all. We need, we need to confirm. Not even just the military personnel, their relations. No, every single one. Not about one enough. It could be a tourist. Yeah. Could be a tourist. Um, yeah. So please do your part. Uh, we'll settle this once and for all, please. No, I really want this case solved. Um,

Yeah, it's...

It's tragic. It's a very sad situation. People are still suffering to this day with the weight of the crimes committed. It needs to be solved for their peace. And I really hope that it eventually is solved. So that's going to do it for this episode of Red Thread. Thank you very much for joining us. We really appreciate all the support. Remember, there's a seven-day free trial over at official.men where you can get early ad-free access to our shows. We're on Spotify. We're on YouTube.

There's links down below. You can check out our sources as well as our document with all of this research. Big thank you to Kira for doing all of the hard work. We just sit here and talk. She does the hard work over multiple days compiling all of this for us. A big thank you to you. You do an incredible job as per usual. Thank you to Jordan for joining us yet again on Red Thread. You really do make the show what it is now. I couldn't be happier with how the show is going. So,

Big thank you to you for making that possible. No worries. Thank you for your attention, everybody listening. We're going to answer some quick official Patreon member questions. So this first one comes from Declan Armstrong. Do you think the date had anything to do with it? Well, if they're an American, yeah. I don't think that Christmas is really celebrated in Japan. It wasn't on Christmas. It was on New Year's.

I think New Year's is a big deal. New Year's is a big deal over in Japan as well. Not Chinese New Year, just New Year's New Year. No, well, we were in Tokyo over New Year's. I don't think it's a new thing. I think they have celebrated it. It was a big celebration over there while we were there. I have to assume it was the same in 2000. But regardless, I think, yeah, I think the date probably does have something to do with it. I think the person was probably...

feeling emboldened by it. Perhaps maybe they were drunk or they, you know, had worked up the courage through alcohol to do this thing that they wanted to do. I really don't believe like it's a coincidence that it happened on New Year's. What do you think? I really don't know. It could be. It could be a coincidence. It could be, but come on. I don't know.

So you reckon, look, it's honestly like a pretty good question from Declan, I've got to say. Yeah, maybe he was leaving Japan soon. In the new year or... Yeah.

Maybe he had some time off around that time in the holidays. True. That gave him the availability to do this horrific crime. I did read, I didn't have enough time to investigate this specific claim, but apparently there was a school nearby within a few kilometers of the house, like a boarding school, basically where foreign students would stay at.

Perhaps it was a student from there and then they left in the new year to go back to their home nation. You think they're really young then, don't you? I think between 15 and 25 is probably accurate. Yeah, but you're more erring on the side of 15. I wouldn't be surprised. If they were a 15-year-old, it is very much like the meme of would one gorilla win or 100 men. I really feel like I could beat the shit out of a 15-year-old if it came to it. Not if you're surprised at night.

And he's got a sashimi knife. I reckon I could take this down. 15, 15 year olds. Like very much overestimating my findings. Yeah. 15 year old. I don't think 15 year olds aren't like toddlers or anything. They're not like,

That's true. They've got enough strength probably to at least put up a decent fight, especially if they're armed with a weapon. It's not unbelievable to me. And you've got to also factor in the information that he was injured. He did get injured in the attack as well. So it's not like he didn't hurt himself, which could be a point in the favor of him being on the younger side and inexperienced. Yes, yes.

Tristan asks, what do you guys think the killer was doing on the family computer? And do you think this could have any insight on the possible motive or identity of the killer? He was looking at play tickets, wasn't he? Well, that's, I didn't say that corroborated, but that is what was suggested in some reports.

But I think it's likely that... I think all we know for sure is he clicked around on the computer a little bit and made a folder and went on that site, basically, which was bookmarked. So it wasn't like he searched up the site. He just clicked on a bookmark, basically, that went to the site. What I probably think is that he was just wasting time and just fucking around, which is what he was doing in the rest of...

you know, the rest of the time where he spent there, you know, lounging around eating ice cream and shit, he probably was just curious what was on the computer. I don't think it speaks to any kind of motive or identity of the killer personally. We don't know if he turned on the TV or not, do we? No. I do think it was just him being grossly curious on what was on the computer. Nosey. Yeah. Nosey. Wasting time.

Yeah, I don't think it speaks to any element of his identity. Pinhead Larry asks, if you were a murderer, what would your calling card be? You have to have one. Mine would be a note that said, I'm sorry, I'm not a murderer. Please. What? But you are a murderer. What are you talking about, Jackson? I'm playing mind games with the police. You're playing murder. I'm sorry, I'm not a murderer. Please don't come after me. Ha ha ha ha ha ha.

I don't know. It's a very literal calling card, isn't it? Okay, maybe like a Lego set. I don't know. No, you can't do that. You can't. You can't leave a Lego set. I could do that, yeah. I'll make a little like star wars ship. As if it's going to be like a little stegosaurus toy or something. Yeah, oh, the dinosaur killer. He leaves behind a new dinosaur every single time. Yeah.

That's sick. And then you would have a name like T-Rex or something. They'd give you some cool name if you started doing that. If you started putting back Lego, they would just call you like the man child killer. Yeah. They'd insult me in the press. They'd insult you for it. What if I left like an unopened Lego set? Like I was the Santa of the murdering world. That just leaves presence behind. The Santa of the murdering world. So dumb. What about you? Yeah.

You know, the Dodo mascot from Dodo Internet. That's such an Australian reference. I've been thinking about that a lot. It's very cheap and it needs to get more recognition. I'm changing my answer. I'm going to leave behind tickets to your live show.

Oh, don't. You can't. I'm going to implicate you. You can't do that. Oh, my God. Thanks. It's great press. Oh, that's such... I guess, yeah. All right. It is. It is great press. It definitely is. I'll take it. Shout out. Links below. You can go see Jordan's live show on UFOs right now. It's touring around Australia. Garrett, what about you? I was thinking similar to what you said at the start.

No. What, Lego? Just like a post-it note with a smiley face. Not a smiley face, a sad face on it. A sad face? A sad face! Yeah, I'd feel... Sorry. The guilt would be overwhelming for you immediately. Yeah. Yeah. Calling cards are weird. Calling cards are weird. I don't know. I don't know what you would leave. Are they a real thing or is it always just a British murder mystery subplot? They're not irregular.

Calling cards. Well, not specifically a calling card, but there's definitely elements left behind in each murder. Because a lot of serial killers want the place to make the connection. They want their tally to go up. A lot of them want that kind of attention. So, yeah, they would leave behind some kind of message. I mean, you could even call the type of bullet used by the Zodiac Killer.

That's what I'm saying. Does that count as a calling card? Yeah. There's having something that regularly occurs the whole time. That you would use to kind of connect yourself. I always thought it needed to be some cool little mini statue of the see no evil, hear no evil monkeys or whatever. Yeah, no, I don't think... That stuff never happens. There's not that much of that. No one's leaving behind Lego sets, for example.

As far as I know. Well, it's a gap in the market, Jackson. True. Last question from Def1738. If you were the murderer, what food... Why are there so many questions asking what we would do if we were the murderer? If you were the murderer, what food would you hope was in their fridge and would you leave the seat up after you peed? But it was shit. Okay. All right. I hope I'd have the decency to put it down. Kira, do I leave the seat up? No, you don't actually. Oh, I've been trained.

I've been conditioned without me knowing. No, yeah, I feel like I'm pretty respectful in the toilet. Yeah. Yeah. That's a good thing. Clean up after myself. So no, I don't think I'd leave the seat up after I peed. If I was a murderer, what food would I hope is in their fridge? Probably a nice... Fuck, I actually don't know. Maybe... Yeah, probably a steak, right? Nice big eye fillet. What, you're going to cook it? No, I've... That's the thing. Yeah.

No, I'm not doing that. Yeah, I guess if it's in the fridge, it has to be something like reheatable, right? Look, given this guy's time, no, you could make yourself a roast if you wanted to. Yeah, true. Which, if that's the case, yes, I do hope that that's there. And I hope that the Japanese were 20 years ahead of us in terms of technology for air frying. Yeah. If they weren't,

I mean, God, there's nothing in a fridge that you want to eat. What do you eat in a fridge? What do you want out of a fridge? Fridges are for ingredients. Fridges are ingredients. That's not true. What's in there? What's in our fridge? What's in our fridge, Kira? I know for a fact right now there's like a slice of cheesecake or something in our fridge. That's been in there for weeks. I'm not touching that.

Yeah, I know. But the fact that it's been in there for weeks is regardless to the point. Wait, what is the point? You're just outing yourself. Well, Jordan, I'm like a squirrel. I like to store my food for the winter. Yeah, I'll be your food. Yeah, I just put food in there sometimes and think that I'm going to eat it and then I don't. And then you don't. Then it stays in there. Wasteful.

Wow, so you're an Uber Eats family, are you? Oh, yeah. Well, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Not really. We eat home-cooked meals all the time, don't we? Yeah. But do you cook the home-cooked meals or does your precious mum do it for you, does she? What? No. It's your guys' food that you're cooking. Yeah, yeah, no, we cook our food. What do you do? I love to cook. Do you love to cook? Yeah. Yeah.

Wish my wife liked to cook. What do you do? Do you Uber Eats? Yeah, endlessly. Oh, my God. Endlessly. Do that or even the other lazy version of that, which is just like good TV dinners that they deliver to your house. Oh, yeah, we do that too, honestly. They're really handy, though. Yeah. They're really handy. Honestly, that is the answer.

I hope to God that there was just a frozen dinner meal in there. All right. Well, what would you, what frozen dinner meal would you like from the, from the, you know, fridge? I've got to say, this is, this is very pathetic and five-year-old of me. Chicken tendies. I'm a big, oh, no, that's, that's, that's a special kind of five-year-old. That's a Jackson kind of five-year-old meal. The, the,

Is that a Jackson's got a five-year-old bit? You're still into it? How do you not like chicken tendies? It's just crumb chicken. They're great. What do you mean? It's okay. Especially in the shape of dinosaurs. It's basically just eating...

Is that a thing? I mean, I'm sure it's a thing. I'm joking. Yeah, don't pretend. You know it is. You know it's a thing. Dinosaur chicken nuggets. It is a thing. It is absolutely a thing. You had no childhood. Yeah, yeah, nah, he's into it. You had no childhood. I took your childhood from you. I've gained like three childhoods. You totally have. Look, you're having dino nuggets. I'm not. I wish I was. Look, fuck this. I'm having dino nuggets. I'm going to go buy some. Yeah, okay. So what do you wish? What was your thing?

It was a TV dinner. Yeah, what? What specific? You said it was a five-year-old thing and then you didn't answer. Yeah, yeah. The satay chicken one's good. That's not a five-year-old dinner. This is just turning into an ad. We might be on the same meal plan, honestly. We have a bunch of satay chicken ones in there at the moment. I like the satay tofu. Yeah. All right. That's going to do it for this episode of Red Thread. Thanks for joining us. We'll see you next time. Bye.

Bye. Bye.