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cover of episode 536. Ancient Stories That Bridge The Heavens & The Earth | Jacob Howland

536. Ancient Stories That Bridge The Heavens & The Earth | Jacob Howland

2025/4/7
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The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
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Jordan Peterson: 我与雅各布·豪兰德博士探讨了现代高等教育的重新定位，以及现代技术（如人工智能）与哲学之间的关系。我们讨论了雅典和耶路撒冷之间的哲学关系，以及理性、启蒙运动项目和潜在的形而上学基质之间的关系。豪兰德博士的结论与我和约翰·维尔维克、乔纳森·帕吉奥等人得出的结论相似，这表明一场知识革命正在兴起，这场革命源于对启蒙运动缺陷的认识。我们还探讨了对古代故事的理解，以及这些故事如何帮助我们理解现代社会面临的挑战。 我特别关注的是目标错位的问题，以及如何找到正确的目标才能使我们的问题变得有益和富有成效。我认为，有限与丰盛之间存在着真正的关系，在约束与可能性之间存在着最佳平衡，而人类生活的根本问题是如何找到这种平衡。古代犹太人在试图弄清楚如何与神建立关系时，也在努力解决这个问题。 此外，我还探讨了博尔赫斯作品中关于无限对人类影响的主题，以及有限的理性智慧在遭遇无限时如何寻找意义。我认为，对未来的任何有成效的规划都必须扎根于对过去的深刻理解。学习西方传统不仅会让人在智识上变得保守，在某种程度上也会让人在政治上变得保守。 最后，我们讨论了对理性的过度依赖，以及这如何导致极权主义和灾难。我认为，健康的生存状态在于生活在永恒问题的空间中，这些问题必须受到理性与宗教这两种选择的启发。 Jacob Howland: 我是一名哲学教授和备受赞誉的教育家。我研究柏拉图、基尔克戈尔和塔木德，并对人工智能和高等教育有浓厚兴趣。 我认为思考是世俗化的祈祷，它包含了祈求、启示和内在对话三个阶段。“提问”的词根是“探寻”，这暗示了思考过程中的冒险和探索。目标的精神回应你的祈祷，当你设定目标（也就是问题）时，与之相符的想法就会显现在你的意识中。 我认为，有限与丰盛之间存在着真正的关系，在约束与可能性之间存在着最佳平衡。古代犹太人在试图弄清楚如何与神建立关系时，也在努力解决这个问题。 《出埃及记》提出了三种选择：服侍法老、服侍上帝或迷失在沙漠中。法老代表着将人提升为神，这会导致极权主义社会。20世纪中叶的意识形态暴政是法老暴政的翻版。共产主义并非新生事物，而是古老模式的最新伪装。如果我们失去了对古代故事的联系，我们将失去真正理解正在发生的事情的能力。 以利亚反对自然崇拜，这与当今社会自然崇拜的兴起有关。理性不能与对上帝的敬畏分开，对上帝的敬畏是智慧的开端。健康的生存状态在于生活在永恒问题的空间中，这些问题必须受到理性与宗教这两种选择的启发。 我认为，科学家的好奇心受某种精神支配，这种精神的善恶取决于科学家的目标。世界是美好的，并且寻求答案取决于我们的目标。我们需要打破僵局，重新定位自己，弄清楚什么是高什么是低，什么是正确方向。

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Chapters
Jordan Peterson interviews Jacob Howland, a philosopher and academic involved with the University of Austin, about his background, interests, and views on the relationship between Athens and Jerusalem, rationality, science, and metaphysics. Howland discusses the significance of questions, the Talmud, and the relevance of ancient stories in understanding contemporary issues.
  • The root word of 'question' is 'quest,' highlighting the adventurous nature of inquiry.
  • The Talmud, similar to Platonic dialogues, privileges questions and debates, often without definitive answers.
  • A fundamental question appears in both the Hebrew Bible and Plato: 'Where have you been and where are you going?'

Shownotes Transcript

Jordan Peterson sits down with author, professor, and Dean of Intellectual Foundations at the University of Austin, Jacob Howland. They discuss man’s finitude and his grasping for the infinite, how orientation can provide limitless abundance or a bottomless fall, where Socrates and the Talmud overlap, and why God offers Abraham adventure as the covenant.

 

Jacob Howland is the Senior Vice President for Academic Affairs, and Dean of Intellectual Foundations at the University of Austin. Previously he was McFarlin Professor of Philosophy Emeritus at the University of Tulsa, where he taught from 1988 to 2020.

 

Howland has published five books and roughly sixty scholarly articles and review essays on the thought of Plato, Aristotle, Xenophon, Kierkegaard, the Talmud, the Holocaust, ideological tyranny, and other subjects  A past winner of the University of Tulsa Outstanding Teacher Award and the College of Arts and Sciences Excellence in Teaching Award, he has received grants from the National Endowment for the Humanities, The Littauer Foundation, the Earhart Foundation, and the Koch Foundation, and has lectured in Israel, France, England, Romania, Brazil, Denmark, Norway, and at universities around the United States.  His most recent book is Glaucon’s Fate: History, Myth, and Character in Plato’s Republic, Paul Dry Books, 2018.

 

This episode was filmed on March 15th, 2025.

 

 

| Links |

 

For Jacob Howland:

 

Read Howland’s most recent publication “Glaucon's Fate: History, Myth, and Character in Plato's Republic” https://a.co/d/7EGH57y

 

Howland’s philosophy website and blog https://www.jacobhowland.com/?_sm_nck=1