Deep Dive
Shownotes Transcript
Hi, it's Andrea Gunning, the host of Betrayal. I'm excited to announce that the Betrayal podcast is expanding. We are going to be releasing episodes weekly, every Thursday. Each week, you'll hear brand new stories, firsthand accounts of shocking deception, broken trust, and the trail of destruction left behind. Listen to Betrayal Weekly on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
I'm John Walczak, host of the new podcast Missing in Arizona. And I'm Robert Fisher, one of the most wanted men in the world. We cloned his voice using AI.
In 2001, police say I killed my family and rigged my house to explode before escaping into the wilderness. Police believe he is alive and hiding somewhere. Join me. I'm going down in the cave. As I track down clues. I'm going to call the police and have you removed. Hunting. One of the most dangerous fugitives in the world. Robert Fisher. Do you recognize my voice? Listen to Missing in Arizona every Wednesday on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your favorite shows.
Curious about queer sexuality, cruising, and expanding your horizons? Hit play on the sex-positive and deeply entertaining podcast Sniffy's Cruising Confessions. Join hosts Gabe Gonzalez and Chris Patterson Rosso as they explore queer sex, cruising, relationships, and culture in the new iHeart podcast, Sniffy's Cruising Confessions.
Previously on Number One Dad...
So do I owe you money? Is that why you called? No, I was just calling. I mean, I have a family of my own and I'm a father now too. I know. A lot of time has gone by. If you're in town next week, maybe we do something next week. Yeah, I'll be in town next week. Okay. All right. Well, I'll be in touch. Okay, good. Good. All right. And you can tell me more about you and I'd love to see you.
Sullivan, who am I? Dada. Well, guess what? I have to meet my dada. And it's not going to be so easy, dude. Yeah, well, my dada is not your typical dada. Yeah, he's a criminal. That's for one. So we got that on our hands. I haven't talked to the guy in 24 years. What do you think about that? That's it.
And he's going, hmm? All right. So yeah, tomorrow's the day I am going to meet my dad after all this time. What do you think about that? I honestly never thought that I would ever witness this. If you were to ask me a couple of years ago, even six months ago, if I ever envisioned you meeting with your dad, the answer would have been absolutely not. So I think it's pretty crazy. I mean, how are you feeling?
is more the question. You know, this whole process is crazy because it was like yesterday I spoke to my mom.
And I also spoke to my father and that's the first time I've spoken to both of them in the same day in 20 some odd years. So that's crazy to me. Your mother would lose her mind if she knew. Right. She doesn't know where we're at in this at all. So this is heavy stuff. So I feel like I'm keeping a lot of secrets and that's tough.
And I just hope that this all obviously plays out well and my dad and I can have a truthful conversation. Hopefully he's a different person and a person that wants to be a better father. Because, I mean, I guess no matter how old you are, you still need a dad. Are you going to be nice?
Yeah. Because, I mean, sometimes your overall demeanor is kind of like a dick. Yeah, I guess. Sorry about that. Like even people who you like, you're kind of an asshole. I mean, I'm going to, I'm trying to go in with as much positive of an attitude as possible. But also there are things I need to say to him that I haven't said before. There's so much that needs to be done in our relationship. And that's what, you know, obviously this is what it's about. Yeah.
And, you know, we'll see what happens. This is Number One Dad. The recorder is in my bag. I have that as a mic. I have the Zoom H6, the standard podcast recorder with the mic sticking out of my bag. I have that, which it blends in so well. I'm going to have to take a picture after this and send it to you.
just to show you how concealed it is. However... I love how proud you are. Yeah, I know I am. Just the way I taped everything, it's taped pretty well. I just hope that it stays. But I mean, my whole plan is that I get there before my dad.
As I drove into Manhattan to meet my father at the Second Avenue Deli, I spoke to my friend and producer Adam Lowitt. We spoke about the fact that I haven't exactly told my dad I'm doing a podcast. I'll save that for later.
You think your dad's going to show an hour early? I hope not. I assume he'll be early. I don't think this is a meeting you're late to, especially if you're him. Right. I figure, you know, it's realistic that he could be a half an hour early. I was thinking about something that he said on your phone call, and I thought it might be a helpful way in for you.
Which is, he said, look, I still have the house. We had a lot of good memories of that house. A lot of bad stuff happened too, but I don't like to focus on the bad. I want to focus on the good. And I think that you can say that that really stuck out to you. I completely agree. I mean, same way. Same thing I felt. That is something that stuck out to me. It's like...
And he's the, you know, I'm still, in his eyes, still this child. He doesn't know me as an adult. And him saying that is an easy way for him to just not deal with it himself. But it's like, you were the cause of the bad. Let's address that. Let's talk about that. You know, it doesn't have to be all about the bad. Obviously, I'm here not to completely relive all
all the horrible things that place. But I want to, you know, I want you to be aware that it happened and feel some remorse and like address it. Yeah. Stuff I do want to say is just like the way I felt growing up is that you put me in the middle of your marriage and everything that was going wrong. Somehow if it involved screwing her over, you had no problem screwing me over.
Yeah.
You know, I mean, I could get it to, you know, the whole dog thing, too, where it's like you took my dog and you said that I wasn't getting it back until the divorce was final. I never saw my dog again after I was 15 years old. Is there any chance of him going, that's not how that happened?
It's very possible. And I'll be like, all right. I mean, like, if you don't think any of that happened, then, you know, I mean, there's not much more I can say, but that's how I remember it exactly. How's your pastrami? Let's play this out. What is the worst-case scenario of how this lunch goes? I think...
Worst case, he goes in for a kiss and slips me the tongue. And then rips open your backpack and then goes, what the fuck is this? Yeah, sees the mic immediately and then he splits my throat after he made that mistake. Yeah, it says he's like, who you with, AT&T?
I knew they'd come back to me. Just never thought it'd be you. He actually just texted me. He said, just missed my 124 out of, and then he didn't finish his sentence, texted me. I just wrote back, okay. I'm going to see. He's got the dots going, waiting for his next text. Well, it would be hilarious if he was like, let's just do this another time. Yeah.
If he fucking bails on you. He wrote, the next train is 224, which arrives at 324 Penn Station. Will that still work? I'll say, yeah. He's like, sorry about that. I'm like, it's all right. That's the first time you let me down. I'm sure you've had other lunches with 24 years in the making that you've been late for.
Back in 1969, this was the hottest song around. So hot,
that some guys from Michigan tried to steal it. My name is Daniel Ralston. For 10 years, I've been obsessed with one of the most bizarre and audacious cons in rock and roll history. A group would have a hit record, and quickly they would hire a bunch of guys to go out and be the group. People were being cheated on several levels. After years of searching, we bring you The True Story of the Fake Zombies.
I was like blown away. These guys are not going to get away with it. Listen to the true story of the fake zombies on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. On September 17th, 2009, 24-year-old Mitrice Richardson was released from the Malibu Lost Hill Sheriff's Station. She had no money, no phone, and no ride. She walked out of the station and into the night. And she never made it home.
Nearly a year later, Mitrice's naked, skeletonized remains were discovered in a canyon six miles from the station. I'm Dana Goodyear. Five years ago, I started reporting on the Mitrice Richardson case. Everyone knows something horrible happened to Mitrice. Nothing about her case makes sense. And for 15 years, the Sheriff's Department has failed to solve it.
In Lost Hills, Dark Canyon, we're investigating what happened to Mitrice Richardson. Listen to Lost Hills, Dark Canyon on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. In a world where TikTok didn't exist yet, las películas no tenían color. The comedy of a genio mexicano crossed borders y conquistó the heart of America. TikTok!
And his catchphrases are part of our culture, but...
Sonoro y iHeart's My Cultura Podcast Network present Nace una leyenda. Chesperito. I'm Felipe Esparza y te llevaré de viaje por la obra del super comediante Chesperito. From his television debut hasta la cima del éxito. ¡Síganme los buenos! Listen to Nace una leyenda. Chesperito. As part of My Cultura Podcast Network en la aplicación iHeart Radio, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you stream podcasts.
I got to the city and walked around. With my father now being late, I had time to kill. Unfortunately, when you grow up with a con man for a father, you learn not to believe everything they say. So now I'm left thinking, did he really miss his train? Was he tailing me the whole way in? Has he been walking a block behind me for the past half hour? I wouldn't put anything past him.
While waiting to meet up with my dad, I called my buddy, comedian Sam Morrell. Sam has a strained relationship with his biological father and met him after a long time. I know that you have experience. I know you met your biological father. And just for my, like, what was that like? Uh, geez. I mean, I met my biological father when I was, like, 19. This was before you could profit off it doing a podcast. And, uh...
You know, we met in a restaurant and it's weird. You go in. I mean, I never met him ever. You grew up with your dad, so it's different. Yeah. I might have been better off that way, though.
I know. Well, you wouldn't have got to meet Mario Lemieux and Patrick Ewing. You got all these great stories out of it, at least. Yeah, and a lot of scars to go along with it. So was it worth it? But I'm an adult now, and I feel that I'm not going to be able to say everything that I want to say to him. But also, I feel like it also wouldn't be the best time to say it. It's our first meeting. So did you get at it with him when you met your dad and try and explain?
express to him like all the wrong that he did and how hurt you were that he wasn't a part of your life and like you know how'd you approach it oh man no not the first time the first time you just kind of like oh wow this is a crazy thing it's kind of
you're in shock a little bit because I'd only seen pictures of him. I didn't know him. So it's also hard the first thing you're like, hey, oh, you're my biological dad. You're horrible. Of the Caesar salad, it's a hard thing to just, you know, to just do. If you want to have a relationship with him or to repair the relationship, you'll maybe tell him over time, but I don't think that's a thing you can just...
unload out of nowhere after all this time. I think that's, and then also you'll see what he's capable of, what he can take. Yeah. Because if he can't handle it, there's no point in telling him. I know. Does he know what he did is really the question, right? Is he aware of the harm he did to you? So already you have to think about how, I mean, how would you feel as a father? I mean, you're a different type of father, you know? Yeah.
So far, you're doing well. You could turn out to be a bag of shit, too. They don't know the ways in which it screws you up because they're gone. So then, you know, they're gone. They're living another life. And you're dealing with...
kind of what they did to you and the aftermath of that. Yeah. I have a question. Who's paying for the meal? Well, I'm definitely not going to offer, you know. You know, when we go out, I never do, so I'll just stick to what I've been practicing. Yeah.
So, yeah, I realize I have a very paternal role in your life now. Yeah, exactly. Always picking up the tab. I'm, like, approaching. I got to head over right now to meet him. So, buddy, I appreciate you. Good luck, man. You know, stay strong. Don't give in too much, you know, and take a breath or something. I don't know. I don't have any good advice for this. You just got to go and do it.
Buddy, you screwed me. I'm fucked. What if I just gave you dating advice? I'm like, before you meet him, masturbate. I got nothing good. Just best of luck, man. I appreciate it, buddy. After talking with Sam, I eventually made my way to the Second Avenue Deli. I grabbed a back booth and quickly set up my recording devices. And then I waited. At 4 p.m. and over 90 minutes late, my dad, Manny Veeder, arrived.
He was neatly dressed wearing a black Calvin Klein jacket, a short-sleeved collared shirt, and blue jeans. Hair parted and cleanly shaven. He looked exactly how I remembered him, just older. A little late? I'm sorry. How's work today? Oh, it's fine.
My father and I shook hands, we sat down, and the waiter came over to take our order. You know what I want? Yeah, I know what I want. I know. So you're going to have some soup? No, just do a sandwich. Just a sandwich? Yeah, I'm good. Sandwich is plenty. What kind of sandwich do you want? Can I do the brisket? All right, sir. What about fries?
- It comes with any sides or no? - No. - Okay, just the pickle and like the coleslaw. - Just bring out some florets, I'll have some, he'll share them with me, I hope. - Okay. - 'Cause I can't eat them all. Let me have a matzo borscht, no noodles. Some extra dills. I'll have a brisket sandwich, sliced and lean, on the lean side, okay?
- I'm Ryan. - What's up, Russ? - You got seedless rye? Okay, good. What are you drinking? - Water's fine. Yeah, seedless rye for me as well. Thank you. - You go for a physical every once in a while? - Yeah, why are you gonna ask me to call? - I'm concerned about your blood sugar. - Yeah, I'm fine. - Are you okay? - Yeah, yeah, I'm fine. But yeah, I was-- - Yeah, I gotta go in for some more testing. I think it's in two weeks. I had a stroke. - Oh, really? - Yeah.
Breaststroke, backstroke. I think it's called a TIA. So much for me trying to make a silly joke about my father's stroke, but it's kind of hard to have empathy for someone you can't trust. I had a bleed on the left side of my head. How's the right side now? That's the right side? Yeah. Both sides are good, thank you. Yeah. I'm glad you reached out to me because I always wanted you to know what my health situation was.
for yourself you don't look that bad i gained weight only because i eat like a pig you don't exercise no i never did yeah i don't think it's well when you were younger i was going to the wire all the time yeah i still have my lifetime membership there oh yeah yeah so do you i donate furniture to them in the furniture business
You know, that's how he scammed it. If I had any doubts that I'd somehow been making up all this stuff in my mind about my dad being a con artist, him bragging that he scammed a lifetime membership to the YMCA by donating furniture put all those doubts to rest. I'm happy to sit here with you. I'm happy that you reached out to me. I really mean that when I say that. Some good memories, a lot of them.
I have no regrets. You have no regrets? Well, that's all? In any, anything? Well, I mean... I haven't talked to you in 20 some odd years. I'm not talking to Jamie or Danny. Well, you know, I tried. Things happen. And that's it. Of all the things I expected my father to say at our lunch, no regrets was not one of them.
As we sat there, I brought up the topic of my childhood dog, Kobe. It feels crazy being in my late 30s, still caring about a pet I had. But Kobe truly got me through living in that house. I told my dad how much it hurt that he took him from me. I didn't get to see him for a while. I didn't see him until I saw him the first eight years of his life, and then I never got to see him again. After that, how'd he do?
He was great. Slept with me every night. Every night and... Well, I would have liked to have him. Nobody... Nobody reached out to me. I was told that you had gotten a dog and Cooper was the dog's name?
I didn't get a dog, but I asked you if this is what happened. And you said when the divorce is over, that's when I can get Kobe back. And that was something that always upset me. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Yeah, but... I mean, that was something that always stuck with me because I never got to see my dog again. Yeah. I'm glad you're telling me that. So I can tell you I'm sorry. I intentionally did not hold back Kobe for him.
- He would have probably been better off with you than with me. - All right, bud, it was a great talk. - Yeah, he was good. You like pastrami? - Yeah, I do. - What about corned beef? - Yeah. - But it's the same cut of meat. So is this, they're all the same cut of meat. - Yeah.
That makes sense. And that was it. The thing I couldn't get over in my childhood, the thing I thought about probably more than anything in the past 24 years, I was finally able to say, and that was the response I got. A quick apology and then a lesson on the similarities between smoked meats. On September 17th, 2009, 24-year-old Mitrice Richardson was released from the Malibu Lost Hill Sheriff's Station.
She had no money, no phone, and no ride. She walked out of the station and into the night. And she never made it home. Nearly a year later, Mitrice's naked, skeletonized remains were discovered in a canyon six miles from the station. I'm Dana Goodyear. Five years ago, I started reporting on the Mitrice-Richardson case.
Everyone knows something horrible happened to Mitrice. Nothing about her case makes sense. And for 15 years, the Sheriff's Department has failed to solve it. In Lost Hills, Dark Canyon, we're investigating what happened to Mitrice Richardson. Listen to Lost Hills, Dark Canyon on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. Back in 1969, this was the hottest song around. It's the time.
So hot that some guys from Michigan tried to steal it. My name is Daniel Ralston. For 10 years, I've been obsessed with one of the most bizarre and audacious cons in rock and roll history. A group would have a hit record and quickly they would hire a bunch of guys to go out and be the group. People were being cheated on several levels.
After years of searching, we bring you the true story of the fake zombies. I was like blown away. These guys are not going to get away with it. Listen to the true story of the fake zombies on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. In a world where TikTok didn't exist yet, las películas no tenían color. The comedy of a genio mexicano crossed borders y conquistó the heart of America. Da-da-da!
And his catchphrases are part of our culture, but...
Sonoro y iHeart's My Cultura Podcast Network present Nace una leyenda. Chesperito. I'm Felipe Esparza y te llevaré de viaje por la obra del super comediante Chesperito. From his television debut hasta la cima del éxito. ¡Síganme los buenos! Listen to Nace una leyenda. Chesperito as part of My Cultura Podcast Network en la aplicación iHeart Radio, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you stream podcasts.
Not long after, I changed the subject to something my dad would enjoy talking about, one of his scams. So I asked him about the time where he entered a local news contest for who had the worst first date story. What was the Club Med thing? There's something on TV about anyone who has the best date story, okay, will win a trip to Club Med.
I said, fuck it. I thought of something right away. Here's something about my father that I can't stand. He's undeniably charming. That's why he's a great con man. I mean, listen to me. Minutes earlier, the guy told me he never meant to keep my dog from me. And now he's got me laughing with him about another scam he pulled. They said, look, we like you. Come on, do the...
and tell your story. Yeah. I didn't know there were going to be two other people. I had to compete against their story. His story sucked. So I knew I'm going to blow them away. What was the story? The story I told was I met this girl and she invited me back to her apartment and we sat down. She's very nice, very pretty. And we were talking and then it was getting late. And I decided that I don't think this girl is really for me.
So I went to the bathroom and as I went to the bathroom, I passed the front door that we came in and I noticed there were a couple of locks on it, but they were deadbolts without the thing that you turn. So you could lock it with a key on that side and lock it either way or open it either way. So I said, this is freaky. So we're sitting and talking and she was getting really friendly with me. I said, gee, this is great, but it's our first date.
And I looked at her and she had these eyes that looked like they were spinning in her head. And I was frightened. I was really frightened. So it's like one o'clock in the morning. She hears the door open and she says, get up, get up, get up. My husband said, you didn't tell me you were married. I told you my husband, I thought it was your ex-husband, is a pilot.
She goes, "His flag probably got canceled. You gotta get out of here now." So I climbed out the bathroom window and that was it. Yeah. Is it a true story? Bullshit. It's bullshit. Yeah. I remember you telling me that it was bullshit.
Never happened. Yeah, that's what I thought. But that's my talent. You have comedy, and I'm a bullshit artist. And that's the desolation of my father. He looks at my hard work and compares it to his line. To him, those are to be equally revered. You follow hockey still? After you, I don't follow hockey anymore. You go to any hockey games? Every once in a while, yeah. When I can, you know. But...
Donna is my father's girlfriend. Apparently, they've been dating a while. And what did she think of it? Did she know it? The story? She did.
He just knew that we were involved with hockey and that's it. She goes, "Maybe he's trying to reach out to you." That's what she said to me. So I said, "Well, phone call away, you know." Yeah. So you saw the article.
I when I put out the article, they like, you know, they interviewed me at Sports Illustrated. They want to make sure I wasn't bullshitting. And I had to talk to two people. I was going to say to you, they doubted that somebody's going to. They doubted it. Well, they doubted in the beginning until I was able. Like, I was fortunate. I had what I had. They had pictures. I figured they were going to come and arrest me. Oh, no, no. I bullshit my way out of it. No problem. Well, I know. Exactly. Did you ever look me up on Facebook?
Who am I pictured with? Who? The President of the United States. Current President? Current President. How does a guy like me get to him? Yeah. You know? I had somebody from the Israeli embassy who knew me through someone who said, "I know this guy," you know, when he saw the picture. And they called me and said, "We want to talk to you, confidentially. Nothing goes past us."
how were you able to get to Joe Biden? I said, well, I wasn't looking to get to Joe Biden. He was an afterthought. But he said, you got right to Joe Biden.
I mean, I did that to Obama too. You know, like, what's his name? Shasha Don Cohen? Yeah, yeah. Same shit. Yeah, yeah. Absolutely. When I see him doing his shit, I think, fuck, I did that shit. Yeah, yeah. I did that stuff already. I can get just anywhere I want to. It's just, it's a talent I have and it's the way I come across with people, no matter who they are.
Yeah, I gotta get out of here. What?
The video my dad is playing on his phone is of my 16-year-old half-sister, who until this very moment, I had no idea even existed. I was completely stunned. I expected meeting my father to have a surprise or two, but I definitely did not see this coming.
I have another sister who's half my age and she's French. Everybody says it's just like Vanny and Jamie. Yeah, maybe one day I could tell someone. I want you to meet him if you want to.
I'm not pushing you to anything, but I do want to see you again. I really want to see you again. Take it, you know, day by day. You decide. Listen, I got to tell you something. I was very anxious about coming to meet you because I didn't want you to be angry with me. I understand. I didn't know how you'd react. I've had a lot of time. I mean, I wasn't angry. I got to ask you a question. You don't have to answer me.
But what made you decide, man, curiosity? I feel that, you know, I mean, again, we haven't talked in 24 years. It's a long time. Yeah, I wanted to know what you're up to. There's a big gap. What I really wanted to say was, I'm here to show you I didn't end up like you.
Then, after a 45-minute lunch, 24 years in the making, we finished up and headed to the register, where my father generously offered to pay. The cashier tells him his credit card expired five years ago.
Who does this? My father said it's in case he ever has to make a return to Home Depot. Whatever that means. He finally paid with another card, and we went our separate ways. But on my drive home, I couldn't stop thinking about my dad and that credit card. I could only assume it was another one of his scams to cop a free meal. And you know what? I shouldn't have expected anything less. The man is who he is. ♪
On the next episode of Number One Dad. All right, I am in my old neighborhood. I am about to go into my house. This is pretty wild. It's a lot. I haven't been in here since I was 15. That's when I left to go to boarding school. I never came back. There we go. That's a great picture of me playing hockey. You forgot about that picture? Yeah, I don't remember it. Yeah, you don't want to remember it because it has to do with me.
Number One Dad is a production of Radio Point, Big Money Players Network, and iHeart Podcast. Created and hosted by Gary Veeder. Executive producers are Gary Veeder, Adam Lowett, Alex Bach, Daniel Powell, Houston Snyder, Kenneth Slotnick, and Brian Stern.
Written by Gary Veeder and Adam Lowit. Produced by Bernie Kaminsky. Co-producer is Taylor Kowalski. Edited and mixed by Ian Sorrentino at Little Bear Audio. Recording engineer is Kat Iosa. Original music by Andrew Gross. Special thanks to Charlotte DeAnda. Jonathan Karsh is creative consultant. Executive producers for Big Money Players Network and iHeart Podcast are Will Farrell, Hans Sani, and Olivia Aguilar.
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Hi, it's Andrea Gunning, the host of Betrayal. I'm excited to announce that the Betrayal podcast is expanding. We are going to be releasing episodes weekly, every Thursday. Each week, you'll hear brand new stories, firsthand accounts of shocking deception, broken trust, and the trail of destruction left behind. Listen to Betrayal Weekly on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
I'm John Walczak, host of the new podcast Missing in Arizona. And I'm Robert Fisher, one of the most wanted men in the world. We cloned his voice using AI.
In 2001... Police say I killed my family and rigged my house to explode. Before escaping into the wilderness... Police believe he is alive and hiding somewhere. Join me... I'm going down in the cave. As I track down clues... I'm going to call the police and have you removed. Hunting... One of the most dangerous fugitives in the world. Robert Fisher... Do you recognize my voice? Listen to Missing in Arizona every Wednesday on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your favorite shows.