Kristin Cavallari: Evolution of Me
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Is this thing on? Hi, babies. Welcome back to another episode of Don Blonde. My girl, Kristen Cavallari, is in the house, babies.

I'm so excited to be here. Dude, I am so stoked to have you here. This has been a long time coming. I know. We've been talking about this for, I mean, months. Yeah. Months. Maybe it might even be a year. That's what I was going to say. A year-ish? It might be. Yeah. So yay. I'm so happy it's finally happening. Dude, you are an icon in your own right, dude. You have been around forever. And I don't think, like, I don't feel like the new TikTok people really know, like, your whole lore. I love you.

You have like a lore to you. And it's like, people are just like, oh, Kristen Cavallari just came on the scene. I've seen comments like that. And I'm like, and they're like, who is she? And I'm like, how do you guys not know who...

I love when people comment, who are you? You're the one commenting on my page. Get out of here. I'm the one who's going viral. Who the fuck are you? You know, it's so funny. TikTok is its own thing. I just did a voiceover to myself from Laguna Beach and people thought it was like a real, like in real time. Like I was just doing it. Yeah. And some people obviously get it, but TikTok is it's yeah. Is it a younger generation or?

I, I don't know on my FYP, but I, I feel like there's so many people that do use Tik TOK that it's like the age group is just so vast over there. Well, I don't know what for you pages I'm falling on, but it's like, it's such a mixed bag. It's either like Laguna beach fans who have known me for 20 years, you know, or these people are like, who the fuck is this chick? Yeah.

Yeah, I get all kinds of comments. Well, let's get them familiar with you because I have an entire interview planned out for you because you have so much. So it's like I just want to cover everything. And hopefully in this interview and podcast, people will be able to get to get

a sense and a feel for you of like everything that you've accomplished before you, you know, became on Tik TOK and was on very Cavallari and all that stuff. So, all right. I love it. So let's dig in. Yeah. Let's dig in. Let's take it back to the Hills because that's where I fell in love with you. You had like this huge personality and you didn't take anybody's shit. Yeah. And I was like, who is this woman? How did that all come about? Because was it like a bunch of rich kids whose parents like,

sent them to casting agents or like, how did this even come about? - Okay, so Laguna Beach or the Hills? - The Hills. - The Hills. - 'Cause the Hills was first, right? - No, so Laguna Beach was first. - Okay, Laguna Beach was first. - Okay, so Laguna Beach, so I mean, literally it fell into my lap. I was going to high school. We all were just going to school and MTV showed up one day and did an open casting call. And how they were able to come to the school was the school initially was on board with it. MTV was paying the school, so they found all of us

And then, of course, the parents freaked out. And they were like, there's no way we can have cameras in these classrooms. So MTV was like, that's fine. We already found our cast. So what we would do is we would just film on the weekends. But it was right place, right time. It fell into my lap and it completely changed my life. That's insanity. Yeah. So you grew up in Laguna Beach or did you grow up in like Soho? I grew up all over. So a lot of people think I'm from Laguna, but I didn't move to Laguna until I was a freshman in high school. So I was born in Colorado. Oh, wow.

Moved to Connecticut. Moved back to Colorado. My parents got a divorce. I moved to a suburb of Chicago. And then I was getting into a lot of trouble. And so I ended up moving in with my dad my freshman year of high school to Laguna. What kind of trouble were we getting into? Well, Bunny. Because I need to hear this. Makes me feel better.

about my childhood. What's so funny is for so long I was kind of ashamed of my childhood and then like my partying ways and stuff and now I just fully embrace it, you know? No, you have to. That's what made you the woman you are today. Exactly. But so I started smoking pot in eighth grade. I started drinking. I was sneaking out. Eighth grade? Eighth grade. Wow. Yeah, I was young and so, and my boyfriend Johnny at the time lived close. Mm-hmm.

And he would drive his golf cart over to my house and pick me up. And we would just, I mean, just animals. I've got taken home by the cops in eighth grade. It's like all your typical stuff. Who introduced you to drugs and that scene so early? Was it just like ditching school, partying, like ditching school and just friends? Yeah. You know, it's just, I,

I think I was sort of drawn to that group of kids because I had a lot of trauma. And so, you know, my escape was to start drinking and doing drugs. And the only way I found a connection was with my boyfriend. I didn't have a connection at home. And so that was where I found it was with my boyfriend and through all of my friends. When you talk about the trauma, can we touch base on that? Like, was it just a rough time?

Yeah. Relationship with the parents. So my dad is a narcissist, typical narcissist. So is mine. I'm just dealing with my dad today, actually. And he died in May. Oh, really? Yeah. No, it's having a narcissistic father is so... It just...

You can't explain it unless you've gone through it or somebody can relate to it. Because there's so many layers to it. It's so complicated. It's disgusting. It really is disgusting. I actually cut my dad out of my life a couple years ago, which is the best thing I've ever done, quite honestly. I feel like it was the last thing I needed to do in my healing journey. And there was a period where I was like,

I felt like, am I going to have bad karma if I cut him out of my life? And am I going to have to like come back in another lifetime and have to like, you know, work through all the same shit again. And I actually had a medium say to me, she was like, no, actually that was like what you came to do in this lifetime was to be able to stand up for yourself and set boundaries and cut him out of your life. I was like, okay, that made me feel so much better. Yeah. Just validated everything. But anyway, so, so I had a narcissistic dad growing up and then I,

parents divorce step families some sexual trauma with a couple different guys in my life and just you know just like one thing after another yeah and so yeah I was just looking for any kind of any kind of connection an outlet as well so that was why I kind of you know went down the path that I did yeah they

They say that children who are born Capricorns normally have issues with the mom. So for you to have issues with you, I wonder what your moon sign is. Well, okay. I don't know which one is moon and which one is, what's the other one? Venus. Venus. So I,

I'm cancer and Aries, but I don't know which one is which. I could see you being an Aries moon because I'm an Aries moon. Okay. So you might have, I don't know. We'll do your chart. I'll do. I'll get your number and we'll, or we can do it on the podcast. I don't even care. I love it. Do you, Mimi, do you know how to look up the birth charts? What? Yeah. Will you look it up? Oh, fun. Just give, um, I was born and I was born at, I think PM.

The fact that I know that so easily. I was a fucking an AM baby and I, I can, I'm a night owl. Oh, I can. Isn't that crazy? Like I came in the world AM and you will never catch me up at six 30. That is hilarious. Yeah. Ever dude. While she's looking that up, we'll continue. But isn't it crazy though, that like,

So much happens in your early life and it's like you you don't know how to deal with it and you carry it so deeply. So it comes out in other ways, which was, of course, for you was the partying and stuff like that. Yeah, I know. I think everyone is the way they are because of their childhood. This is like my favorite conversation. Yeah. You know, because I just think and I think a lot of people, they don't.

Take the time to actually look inward and really work through their trauma and figure out why they are the way they are. Yes. And I feel like that's been my whole fucking life basically is like having to like figure it out. Breaking generational. Yes. Literally. That's me too. Yeah. And finally I'm about to turn 38 and I finally feel like I'm in a good place with everything and have a good handle on it.

I'm so glad you got a hold of it early because I didn't want to start dealing with my shit till I hit 40. And when I tell you I hit 40 years old, I had the most crazy depression. Like it like it's like you can be so strong your entire life. And then it's that one day that you just wake up and everything fucking hits you like a wall. Yeah. So the fact that you have gotten ahead of it is just amazing. I'm so proud of you for doing that. I mean, I've always said I feel like the first the first half of my life was just like,

Thing after thing, just like it was just a lot. And now I'm hoping that I'm setting the second half of my life up to just be fucking chill. Just like relax and be able to just enjoy my life. Do you think all that trauma that you had was why you were so fierce on...

Laguna Beach and the hills. I think it definitely played a role. And I think always being the new girl and moving around constantly, I was able to be put in any situation and it was like sink or swim. And I figured out how to survive, you know, and how to make the most of it. So I think I naturally sort of had this tough exterior, this like take no shit attitude, but I also was able to figure out any situation you could put me in. So I think the combination, yeah, is what made me this like, you know, fucking firecrackers.

I love that though. And that's what you were known for. And that's literally why people fell in love with you because you know, back then we didn't have a lot of like strong personalities like that on TV. Well, I got a lot of hate for it at the time. And now it's interesting because people are like, wait a minute. Maybe she wasn't the villain. Yeah. Fuck. 20 years later, I'll take it. Yeah. I, you know, and I'm, I don't want to talk shit about her, but it, Lauren always rubbed me the wrong way. And I was just like, Oh no,

Like it just seems a little too manufactured. Like it just didn't seem real to me, but you always came across as authentic. Thank you. Do you feel like because you were always the, you know, fierce one and the one to speak up and the one to fight back, do you feel like people didn't really get a sense of who you really were because of that? A hundred percent. And I think that was the thing Laguna beach showed one side of my personality. And I mean, you know, we're all, we have so many different sides to our personality. And so, um,

you know, people, cause I do have a very soft side too. And of course, as I've gotten older and became a mom and everything, I've really honed in on that. But even back then, I mean, I did as well. And I still have that, that, you know, take no shit side to me. But, um, when that's the only thing they're showing, yes. I mean, you can't really get to know someone. And it's interesting because Steven and I actually did a back to the beach podcast. It was a rewatch podcast and we went back and it was the first time I had seen it. And since it aired, um,

And at the time I remember being like MTV fucked with me so hard and I thought it was unfair. And then going back and rewatching it,

And talking to everybody, I was like, oh, no, they fucked with everyone. Like they did what they did to me. They did to every single cast member, even, you know, Lauren. They only showed one side of her personality to Stephen, the same thing. And so I walked away from that being like it's just it was what it was. And I was so mad about it for so long. But it was a nice way to kind of like wrap that up and be like, it wasn't just me. I wasn't the victim in that situation. Like it happened to us all. That's that's actually a really cool perspective, though, because most people would

internalize that and be like, I was picked on and victimized themselves. And you were like, no, actually they did it to everybody. So you guys didn't have any control of what was getting put out there. Nothing. Oh, nothing. I feel like reality TV back in the day did that to everybody. Like you signed your life and rights away as a human. And it,

What they wanted to present you as was what you were going to be known as. Yep. I know. Because, you know, it was one of the first reality shows. Mm-hmm. So we didn't know what we were signing up for. Right. And, you know, even things like they would have us just record wild lines, just lines, and they could splice them in wherever they wanted. Mm-hmm.

And so in a sense, I mean, we kind of had an idea of what they were doing because we're like, well, obviously I didn't say this, but you're having me say it on into a microphone. So you're clearly going to use it somewhere. So we knew that they were manipulating it to a degree. Yeah. But until we actually saw it, we had no idea what was going on. And you guys were kids. I was 17. Did you guys as parents have any say so in any of that?

Yeah, our parents had to sign off on it. My mom had a lot of reservations, but I wasn't living with her at the time, so it kind of didn't matter. My dad was on board with it. Oh, shit. I know. You know what? Look at where you are now. No, it's all good. It's all good. Yeah, I'm happy my mom didn't stop it. But it was hard to deal with at that age just because it's hard enough being a teenager, and then having your lives being manipulated when it's your real boyfriend, your real friend, it just gets really...

just really messy, quite honestly. So was it, how real was it though? Because you know, reality TV back then wasn't quite real. Didn't they give you guys plots and like, or was it genuine? Well, so Laguna beach was more put us in situations and then kind of see what happens knowing that a particular situation is going to probably press my buttons or, you know, this is not the group of people I would normally hang out with kind of a thing. Um,

let's have Kristen's boyfriend go up to this other girl's house, even though they're dating. And so situations that they know is going to piss us off. Right. But I don't think any show is 100% real. I think it's impossible to have a show. Right.

Even if you have cameras on you 24 seven, like Jersey shore, for example, they still have to edit it down into a 42 episode or whatever it is. Yeah. 30 minute episodes for. Right. And so there's no way that something can be 100% real. You just, there's no way to capture all of that. Yeah, absolutely.

We have your birth chart right here. Okay. So you are a Capricorn sun. You're an Aries moon because I can see it in you. Oh, you were right. Yeah, totally. And you're a Capricorn rising. So your Mercury is Capricorn. Wait. Yep. Capricorn. Why did I think I had cancer? Your Venus is Scorpio. Ooh, so you're a lover. Oh, that makes sense. You're a lover, baby. I love that. Where the hell did I get cancer from? You got a lot of Cap. You have a Capricorn stellium in you, baby. You have...

one, two, three. So she has three or four planets in Capricorn. Three planets in Capricorn, yeah. So that's a stellium. Wow. Yeah, so you're a hardcore Cap. Yeah, I could have told you that. But I could see the Aries moon in you because I'm an Aries moon too and we're just so fiery. Yes. Okay, so the Aries is the fiery. Well, and Cap too. Okay. Cap is Earth but also...

the Aries part of it too, is just, it all, I'll have to sit down and explain birth charts because I'm super into that. But I just feel like astrology really tells people like who they are. It's like, it's a love language. Totally. I believe in all of this stuff. I love it. Yeah. Do you? Yeah. I love that. We'll have to, I'll have to start sending you stuff. Okay. I'm totally into that. So,

So moving on from the Hills and all that stuff, are you friends with anybody still from the cast? I mean, I still talk to pretty much everybody and the rewatch podcast kind of brought us all back together, which was really fun. And I have my 20 year high school reunion coming up in the fall. And so I can't, I can't wait. Yeah.

Are you excited? I'm so excited. You're going to be like the hottest one there going back there. I love you. No, for real. Everyone in Laguna Beach still looks really good. There's something in the water. You know what? I'm telling you. The West Coast girls are just... It's true. That sunshine, baby. I do think it's good for you. I'm from Vegas and we were always in Cali. Vegas girls and Cali girls kind of like we all just...

Well, that's like we were always in Vegas because it's so easy. We'd have nights where we're like, let's just go to Vegas. Fuck it. Half hour flight. Oh my God. It's so easy. You know how many coked out trips I took on a flight? Bro, being locked on a plane. We would drive too. Oh, I couldn't do it. We'd be like, let's just fucking drive. Fuck. Three hours. I couldn't do it. Three and a half hours locked in a car. Oh, train wreck. Yeah. Fucking cracked out of my mind. There's no, I've done it, but there's just, I could now, I could never. I could never.

No way. No. No. I love that. Dude, I look back. We just got some pictures from my best friend who passed away. Her sister sent me a bunch of pictures of us. And there's one of me in there that's like methed out. Girl, where are my eyebrows? I know. Well, I was the same way.

same way I had no eyebrows and I fucked them up forever now I had you can see no your eyebrows look fucking good mine mine are are too but yours like you have hair I can't even fucking grow a fucking eyebrow back okay you know what I'm gonna tell you castor oil do you ever put castor oil on I tried it on my belly button and it made me feel weird I can't do it it made me feel weird so I get scared now I'm so sensitive all over my stomach and it works for

you do you love it and I put it on my face too so I tried to do the castor oil thing because I wanted to be like the castor oil girlies too and it just made me I woke up the next day I'm such a sensitive like girly now because of all the fucking shit I did in my past oh yeah so like now I can't it's like I used to fucking snort eight balls and now I can't even use castor oil right yeah it's fucked up it is fucked up no it's fucking it's it's bullshit dude you

Anyways, moving on from the cast royal packs. How did you take... So you did Laguna Beach, you did the hills. And then after that, did you want to stay in reality TV or was that more of like your exit out? I was like, get me the fuck out. And I think more than reality TV, just living in LA and feeling like I was...

my life felt really claustrophobic because at that point I had paparazzi on me every single day. Yeah. So every time I wanted to leave my house, whether it be just run to Walgreens or whatever, I'd have to be like, fuck, am I going to have to deal with this? And yeah,

This is before social media, so the tabloid world was just ruthless. It was so bad back then. It was really bad, and I was on the cover of fucking every magazine, it seemed like, every other week for some bullshit I didn't do or saying I needed to go to rehab and all this shit. I had sort of hit my wall, and I really wanted out of L.A. It wasn't even so much like...

It wasn't even I wanted to be done with an entertainment career. I knew I wanted to be done with reality TV, but it was more like I got to get the fuck out of L.A. for my own sanity. And I actually met my ex-husband a month after we wrapped the hills. Oh, wow. Yeah. Jay came in. Yeah. Yeah. I'm allowed to say his name. Yeah. Yeah. We can totally say his name. Yeah. I met him when I was 23, a month after we wrapped the hills. And it just sort of naturally got me out of L.A., which was great. Oh,

that's how it was when I met my J was literally, uh, it got me out of Vegas. If I would have stayed in Vegas, I would have killed myself. Right. That's how I felt like in LA. Yeah. Yeah. I know. It's kind of cool how, you know, when you really want something, how the universe just sort of delivers it when you're ready. Absolutely. All you gotta do is ask and the universal grab it. It's true. So you meet J and,

how, tell me, take me on that journey with you guys' relationship. So Jay, a year prior, I got a call from my publicist and he said that Jay Cutler wanted to fly me to Chicago and take me on a date. And I didn't know who Jay was. So I Googled him and I was like, I mean, I don't, I was like,

like whatever I don't know so I didn't know who Jay was till he was on your show I love you I knew who you were I didn't know who Jay was yeah so I said no so okay fine so a year later I was visiting my mom who happened to still live there and I was going to a Bears preseason game with my cousin who was Bears obsessed I totally forgot Jay even asked me out my mom brought it up and my cousin was like what the fuck you're such an idiot Jay's the man you got to go out with him so I

So I ended up getting us family passes to meet Jay after the game thinking it was going to make my cousin's life. I would probably never talk to this guy ever again. And he walked in and I was like, oh, shit, he's cuter than I thought he was going to be. And when he asked you out, how did he ask you out? Well, it was through my publicist. OK, so it was never we never had any interaction. So he walked in. He was really cute. He was very smart because he kind of like won my mom over. I was talking to my mom the whole time.

He drove us to our car and then he texted me immediately and he was like, something about like, well, you gotta come back or something. And then I think I came back like a week later and then it was like,

that was it. We moved really fast. No, I love relationships like that though. You know, granted, you know, do you guys have gone your separate ways, but I still feel like a moment in time, that moment in time was what you needed. And it was like, yeah. Yeah. And he was, he was exactly what I was looking for at the time. And again, I mean, I was 23, I think, um,

I was a baby, you know, like hindsight is 2020. I don't regret a damn thing though. I mean, there's so much good that came out of our relationship and ultimately not only did I get my kids and it got me out to Franklin, Tennessee and you know, all these great things, but it forced me to figure out my shit and grow up and do the work that I needed to do. And so I'm really thankful for that as well. What do you, what would you say was kind of, I don't want to use the word downfall cause that's heavy, but what, what do you think, um,

was part of the reason for the relationship unraveling? Um, so, uh, Jay and I always had a tough relationship even from the very beginning. And I think, um, I'm really careful about what I say, obviously, because we have three kids together. Absolutely. But I think we can always cut things out. Yeah. Um,

I just haven't talked about him in so many years. I've like, I made that vow. I was like, I'm done talking about him, but I'm happy to talk about it. It's just, I'm trying to think about like the best way to say it because, you know, I think, um, it, things were just never good. And, um,

We tried really hard. I will say like we really did everything that we could and ultimately I had to make a decision of taking care of myself and putting myself first and Especially as a mom and having these three little kids. I really wanted my kids to see me happy and see that I was making myself a priority and taking care of myself and

especially now having a daughter too. I think that's so important. It is so important because I feel like when parents stay together and they're miserable, that causes more fucking trauma for the kids. 1000%. Then just seeing healthy co-parenting. Yeah. Yeah. Because what you're teaching your kids then is a stay in something because you're fucking miserable. Yeah. And B, they have no idea now what a healthy relationship looks like. And it just, it's,

if you can't be your best self, that obviously trickles down to your kids and you take out your hurt and your sadness on your kids. It's just a, such a negative toxic environment. Yes. And you know, as soon as I got out of my marriage, um, I remember even my mom saying to me like, shit, I had no idea how bad it was, but like,

I was a shell of who I was and immediately I got my spark back. And I love that for you. Yeah. When you say that it was bad, was it just polar opposites or was it arguing? Like what was it that was so bad? It was just, it was toxic, you know? And I think because I hadn't done the work with on myself and you were a baby too. I was a fucking baby. Like I didn't know any better. How old was he when you guys got together? He was, um,

I think he was 27 or 28. So you guys were both young. We were both young. That's young love. I feel like the first love or the first young love like that where you get married or something like that is toxic. You guys don't know how to fucking navigate life. I know how I was at fucking 23 years old.

I'm sorry to anybody whose paths had to cross with mine in that era of my life because I was just a shit show. Like you shouldn't be allowed to get married before age 30. Quite literally. I agree. Fuck you are that age. I swear. Oh, 100%. I know it. But yeah, but so,

But so the thing is, I was repeating a pattern with my dad, you know? And because I hadn't done the work on my relationship with my dad, that's what you do, you know? I ended up marrying my dad. And so it really forced me then to work through my shit, which is what I did. So when we got a divorce, for the last almost five years, quite honestly, I've really taken the time to, like...

get my shit together so that I don't then make the same mistake. Yeah. I don't want to say mistake. That's not the right word, but I don't want to be repeating that pattern. Absolutely. Yeah, for sure. They, and they do always say that if, unless you do the work, you will meet the same person, the same human and different bodies until you learn that lesson over and over again, over and over again. Yeah.

So what we saw of Jay on Very Cavallari, because when did Very Cavallari come into the picture? Did you start Uncommon James first? I did, but they were pretty close together. Very Cavallari must have been 2017, I want to say. Is that right? Yeah, because we did three seasons and it ended in 2020. So yeah. Yeah, 2017. How did Uncommon James come about? Okay.

So I had a shoe line with Chinese Laundry. Do you remember that? I do. I loved all their shoes. My brand growing up. So I had a shoe line with them and I loved it. But because I was doing shoes with them, I wanted to do something on my own. And I felt like jewelry was the next natural step. I love accessories. I think they make or break your outfit. So I...

Well, I had this fire in me to show everybody that I knew what I was doing in the branding world because with Chinese laundry at the end of the day, while I had final say, I didn't really, because it was a whole team of people. This is a well-established company and I learned to trust my gut. I knew my customer. And so I had this fire in me of like, I'm going to show everyone that I know what I'm doing in the branding world. So I launched uncommon James out of our house and it

At the time, I was essentially a stay-at-home mom. Like, I did little things. I would host these big award shows, these pre-shows for E! on the red carpets. But other than that, I was basically a stay-at-home mom. And so I just honestly wanted something to do also. And probably set yourself apart from the reality star. Yes. You know, because you've grown. You've got a baby by now. You're married. It's like rebranding for you. I wanted, like, my own thing. Yeah. And so...

So I launched it and then I knew, 'cause you know, I had been offered a million reality shows, obviously like, you know, coming off of Laguna Beach and the Hills, I knew I could always fall back on that if I needed to, but I wanted to do a show similar to Vanderpump Rules and have it be about Uncommon James. So pitched it to E and they were like, "We'll do it if you're on it more."

So I had to get Jay on board then and I had to get one of my friends on board and then, yeah, we did it. And, and I did it. Your friends being Kelly. Yes. And we, yeah, we can talk about that. Yeah. And she, um, or so, so we, we did the show and it,

Honestly, the only reason I did it was for Uncommon James. Best decision I've ever made for the company. But I also, because I was an executive producer, I had such a different experience doing Very Cavallari. And the producers really looked at me like an equal. I was involved in every creative conversation. I always knew what was going on. And it was so...

that aspect of it was such an enjoyable experience. It was a great way for me to end my reality TV career just with such a positive taste in my mouth. So I was really, really happy that I ended up doing it. That's amazing. So did you actually get a say so on what was aired? I was able to get shit taken out. I was, I mean like, yeah, I mean it was juicy. There was a lot of drama. It could have been way better. I'm like, I don't know. I thought you guys did a great fucking job. I think it,

could have been better. I think it could have been funnier. I wanted it to be like, I mean, and there were definitely, Jay was very funny on the show. Well, he was hit or miss. He was either really funny or it was like, what is going on with this guy? Well, and I mean, you should have seen the shit that got edited out. There was one time we were filming and we were fighting so bad that the camera guys were like, okay, camera's down. Like, everyone take

a break. Oh, shit. But they can't show that because they wanted Jay and I to seem like we were perfect, you know, or like had this great relationship. You could pick up on the tension though. You could feel it. I think you could too. Like now, obviously we got divorced pretty quickly thereafter. I think people then could kind of see the cracks, you know, but they're

try to do a really good job of showing us in a very positive light. You don't have a good, I'm the same way. You don't have a good poker face. Nope. You're pissed off. I can't bullshit, man. It's like, I gotta be real. Yeah. There was a couple times I was like, she's pissed at him. Like you could feel the energy on it. Cause I watched very Cavallari too. Yeah. Well, I,

the whole time that we were doing that show, I was really unhappy, really unhappy in my marriage. And that was sort of like, well, that was a distraction probably also, you know, at that point I was throwing myself into so much work stuff that I was, it was all a distraction. Do you feel like the drama from the show overshadowed the brand of uncommon James? Yeah.

No, because what it did for the company was insane. I mean, you can't buy that kind of marketing overnight. It just catapulted us to the next level and it just...

It set Uncommon James up, honestly, to something I never even could have imagined. And so and still, I mean, we continue to grow. And and I really do think it's because of the show initially. I really do. So, you know. No, I agree. I couldn't agree more. No. I mean, what is it? What do they say? All news is good news. Yeah. All press is good press. Exactly. Like sometimes it's hard to hard to wrap my head around. But yeah.

But yeah, we're learning. Yeah. We're learning that now we're new into the, the, the fame thing. So there's a couple of like, we go viral for some things that we've said in like 2020 and it's like, we're not even, we're not even those fucking people anymore. You're like, let us grow. Let us know. But the internet will man, that will just hold you to who you were at that moment in time. Hold on to everything. And they like to bring it back and rerun it. And you're just like, like, what is fucking happening? God, I know. Like, let's see you five years ago. You were doing.

Literally, let's shake those skeletons. Let's go there. Yeah, for sure. Where do you get the inspiration for Uncommon James? Like for the jewelry? And you have clothes too, correct? So we do. We're primarily jewelry. And actually now we have skincare. We've got merch. Like we've got sweats and t-shirts and shit. I was going to say, I've seen merch and stuff like that. I wouldn't say we do clothing. But so for the jewelry,

it just depends. I find that whatever's kind of going on in my life is where I'm pulling inspiration from. So, I mean, you know, like during COVID, it was like I was doing a collection about adventure, like when we could, you know, when the world started opening up again, like what we would be doing, like a daydreaming collection. I was in Greece this past summer and that inspired a whole collection. So it just kind of depends on whatever's happening in my life. I love

that. So it's like just little glimpses of where you're at in your life. Yeah. Yeah. You'll be able to look back on your collections and be like, okay, I did this when I was here and I did this when I was with this person and like, yeah. Well, and so my daughter is sailor. She has a collection coming out in...

I think it's April, but we designed it last New Year's actually when we were at the beach. And so like, and that's really sweet. And it's all, you know, this beach theme and stuff. So yeah, it is, it is kind of like a little scrapbook in a lot of ways of like, yeah, what, where I was at in my life. It is fun. I love that for you. Yeah. Moving on.

onto the very Cavallari drama that had happened. You had your best friend, Kelly Henderson on the show. Yeah. You guys had been friends for a really long time, correct? Yeah. We had known each other. Well, actually we met in 2010 when Jay and I started dating, but we didn't become close until a couple of years later. But yes, I mean, we definitely were friends for a while.

What happened on the show? Was that... Was it a storyline or was that really unfolding? No, that was real. So what happened was... So I think it was season two. People started saying that it seemed like Jay and Kelly were having an affair. Right. And I actually...

Was completely oblivious to any, any of that. But then I remember being like, wait, what the fuck? And like really starting to pay attention to it. And I was like, I never once thought that anything was going on. I, I stand by that. I don't, I don't think anything happened, but my issue was how Kelly was handling it and adding fuel to the fire and sort of taking advantage of it for her own benefit. And I said something to her and it just blew up in my face. I mean, I,

I will always stand by the fact that if a friend came to me and said, hey, listen, here's how your actions made me feel. I would go, holy shit. That was not my intention. I am so sorry. Let's talk about this. And this is relationships, too. But when people can't take any accountability and turn it around and throw it in your face, like, I don't I can't do that. You know what I'm saying? Yeah.

I've had a lot of experience with that. That's actually like a huge thing for me moving forward with all of my friendships, relationships, whatever is accountability is so fucking huge. Yes. And it's really hard for a lot of people. Preach it sister. Clip that Jason. That's a good one. That is a good one. But it's, I just, I'm at a point in my life where I'm,

Cause there's no, I can't do anything with that then. Right. Like this is how I feel. And if you can't acknowledge that, well then I don't, I can't move on. Yeah. So, um, that's basically what happened. So the rumors were that they were having an affair. You never once thought like this is possibly true. Like where does a rumor like that come around from? Well, it was because of how she was with him. Um, she definitely, uh, she was crossing the line and, um,

And then like the way she would talk about him on social media, it was just, it was always adding fuel to it where I was like, wait, what the fuck is actually going on? Right. But no, I really, I really don't think anything happened. I mean, fuck, I don't know, to be honest with you. Like, do I know for sure? No. And Jay used to trash her, which I now sort of think of a guy as trashing a girl. It's because there's probably something going on. Um,

Did you ever confront him? Like, hey, is this really going on? Yeah, I mean, he walked, you know, hand in hand with me during that whole thing, but...

You know, when you're dealing with a pathological liar, it's hard to know what the fucking truth is. There are things from my marriage that I will never know. And I've just sort of had to let that go. You know what I mean? I'm over it now. And that's why I can probably talk about it so freely. But... I think that's such an amazing...

thing for you to say though, that you can talk about it freely now, because there's a lot of women who have gone through divorces also that never got the apologies that they deserved. And a lot of times you won't, I never did and I never will, but you have to do it for you. You know what I mean? You have to forgive them. And because at the end of the day, people who are lying to you or who are cheating or whatever the situation is,

situation may be, that's because they're hurt. That's about them. Like that has nothing to do with me. And so when you can get to that place and almost have empathy for those people and realize how much they're struggling, like it's, it's not about me. So I,

I forgive Kelly. I forgive Jay for anything that he did. Like I just, anyone in my life, my dad, even I've, I have empathy for my dad because I understand why my dad is the way he is. I can have empathy and forgive these people and still not have them in my life. You know, those two things can coexist. If Kelly has Kelly tried to apologize to you. No. And in fact, I saw her one time at the airport and she fucking bolted. I was like, okay,

I could give you a big hug right now and be like, whatever, you know, like I don't hold grudges, but that just tells me she hasn't worked through it. She's still holding onto that. So that's, that's rough, man. Because it's, it, it also at the same time makes her look really guilty. Like of something like, why can't you just face me? Like I'm not even with this dude anymore. Like let's never let a man get in between a friendship type of girl code, girl code. Like what? That is like, I can't even wrap my head around that. Yeah.

Yeah. So you're, you are on this TV show, you know, you're doing your last who are off with reality TV, as you said, and then, you know,

All this blows up. What happened with Shannon Ford? Are you guys friends now? I've seen her. Yeah. We're, we're totally cool. You guys are good. Yeah. Okay. Cause I remember that was a whole thing too. Yeah. Um, you're going through all of this and then you and Jay are headed for divorce. You guys get this divorce. What, how are you feeling in that moment? Like, Oh, that was, um, such a crazy time. I felt so many different things. Yeah. I mean, it was everything from, um,

such a weight being lifted to feeling like I could finally breathe yeah to being so fucking devastated that I that I was tearing up our family you know obviously coming from divorced parents the last thing I ever wanted was a divorce so and and I won't lie to you that still will creep up once in a while Christmas I felt that I got really sad Christmas Eve because I was like it it

Just sucks that we're not together as a family. I don't want to be back with Jay at all, but it's that family unit, you know? That bums me out sometimes. Do you guys think you could ever do a Christmas together eventually? How are you guys co-parenting right now? It's been so up and down. Well, not shocking because, I mean, we've seen...

J's behavior. Zero fucking consistency, which is really hard. Yeah. You poor baby. Yeah. It has not been easy to say the least. Um, you know, we sat together at a basketball game earlier in the year and I was like, holy fuck. This is the best thing that's ever happened. You're like, I'll fucking take it. The bare minimum. We made it. We can sit next to each other. Um, and we haven't sat together since. So I don't fucking know. Oh,

Jay, come on, baby. What the fuck? Let's get it together. It's a bumpy road. So I'm going to say probably no Christmases together, which is fine. And to be honest, that's not even what I want. It's just...

I think when you go through a divorce and you have kids, like there are those moments where you're like, it's a bummer just because you don't want that. But there's also a lot of good, of course, that came out of that. And I think even for my kids, you know, it's going to make them stronger. Like there's, I could list a thousand things of why it's positive, but

Um, but I do have those moments, but, um, in that moment, uh, you know, going through the divorce, just wrapping a reality show. How are you feeling? Like even getting back into like the dating scene. That was easy for me. I was like riding a bike. We're going to get there, baby. We're,

it there sister well you know what it was I think so I actually immediately started dating someone and then I went from that to another thing immediately and so for the first year I was like whoo having fun I'm free I'm dating I'm like getting my spark back like just fucking loving life quite honestly and then Jay and I actually went on a couple dates oh yeah we went on a couple dates trying to see if like

Cause I, man, it's fucking hard. And then I think unless you've gone through this, especially with a toxic marriage, it's like, it has this hold on you. And until you can like trauma bond, almost it's a fucking trauma bond. And until you can really break that, I would go back a couple of times and be like, but I know it's not right. But like, why am I doing it? But so we did, we went on a couple of dates. And then after I finally, you know, for the 18th millionth time was like, I can't do this. Um,

Um, then I really did the work and then it like, I had lonely times. I had sad times. It was really hard for me then to meet someone like I dated, but I didn't meet anyone that I liked for a really long time. Because you're in the process of healing and you're just like, ew, like you get the ick so easy. So easy, which is a good thing, you know? Um, but yeah, then I, then I had to really, um,

you know, get real with myself and do the healing journey. So it was, it was good. What's a wellness like ritual that you do for yourself? Like to ground yourself? I mean, I really do love meditating. Me too. I don't do it as much as I would like to, but when I do it, it's fucking powerful. I just started doing sauna. I just, do you meditate in the sauna? That's my new thing. That's what I just started doing it. It's the best. It's the best because you can't take

your phone in there. Like I just set mine outside and I just kind of like sit in there for a half hour and just zone out. Yeah. It's the best. And you feel so good after you do it. Well, they say it literally changes your vibration. Like it literally, you know, yeah. So I, I do love it. Um, what else do I do? I actually have these Oracle cards too. I like pulling Oracle cards. Oh, I love that

for you. I got tarot cards too. I think I'm like a fucking medium all of a sudden. I'm like, you're like a little gypsy over there. Like reading them for all my friends. I would let you read my tarot cards. I would love to read your tarot cards. Let's do it. We'll have to do that. Like I'm coming over for dinner just so you can read my tarot cards. So you've written books, you've built businesses and you're raising a family. How do you define success for yourself these days? I love that question.

Success, I think, is inner peace, quite honestly. Like, period. It's that simple. But I think there's no there's no peace is priceless. That's the thing. And I think, you know, we were talking about earlier, like when your whole life has not been peaceful, I value it.

so much. And I've, I feel lucky because I've gotten to a place where I've been able to sort of like curate my life to be exactly what I want. You know, the, my podcast that I'm doing, Uncommon James, everything's on my terms. I'm my own boss. I can work when I want to work. My kids are always my priority. And if I want to take a week off and go fuck around, I can. And that for me is heaven. So I feel very, very lucky. You're like a Phoenix that rose after that, you know, that rises through the ashes. The Phoenix rising. Yeah. Thanks.

That's how I feel. No, listen, girl, you're a warrior. You know, real recognize real. I get it, man. It's when you go through so much like just tragedy and bullshit in the beginning of your life, all you want now is peace. Like you can ask my girls. I don't fucking even want... It's not...

fucking me, feeding me or financing me. I don't fucking care about what the fuck is you got going on. You want to come to me with some bullshit, take it elsewhere. I do not care. No time for that. Um, so, you know, after the divorce, you said that it was really easy for you to start dating. Here we go.

I love that little smile on your face. Cause you, you already know what's coming baby. Let's go. Let's go. Was one of those men happened to be Morgan? Because you dropped a bomb and the entire internet went insane. What was your, it was your friend, Justin Anderson, our suspect video. Yes. Oh, can we, can we elaborate on this? Because you know,

And I have to navigate this. Yeah, you guys know Morgan. Well, see, here's the thing. I've seen Morgan numerous times. I've only hugged him. I've never had a conversation with him. My husband and him are friends. And my husband is like, that's my bubba. Yeah, and Morgan's a good guy. He has a big heart. He really does. He's a player from the Himalayas. Thousand percent. The amount of women that have sat on my couch that have been with Morgan Wallen is crazy. He's been with every woman on the planet since.

So that, as he should, he should. Yeah, he absolutely should. I mean, yeah, yes. I, I definitely hung out with Morgan. Um,

Morgan, he's very sweet. Here's what I'll tell you is the first date that we went on, he was a true gentleman. And he was like, I'll pick you up. I'll pick the place. Like, just fucking handled business. He came and picked me up. He met my kids. My kids were so excited. It was so cute. He got us a private room. You know, he had like his bodyguard and whatnot. And dropped me off. He kissed me in the rain. And it was like the sweetest thing. And then we hung out thereafter. And it was...

I will say it was a very, um, that was up and down too. It was just like, it was a lot. Yeah. They always say you'll find the same person in different bodies. So that's true. But yeah, I love Morgan. I haven't talked to him in probably a year. Um, but I, I have nothing but good things to say about him. Was he romantic? Um, I've heard he's great in bed. He was good in bed. Yeah. We got another one.

one to confirm. Another one has Morgan. You slay, brother. Slay. All right. And we are in no way. Fucking Morgan. God. You know, Morgan's going to be hitting up Jay like, can you please tell your wife to never talk about me on her podcast again? Only for you, buddy. Only for you. I appreciate it. So, but you did say, and I do, we have to bring this up. You did say that he hurt your feelings. Justin said that. Yeah. Okay. Justin said that. Justin said that. So, okay. God.

I'm so sorry, Morgan. He didn't hurt my feelings. I'll be honest with you. Morgan was the first guy in my entire fucking life that

that wasn't like just completely enamored with me. And I was like, what in the fuck is going on? It really threw me. Cause you're used to people like worship me. I'm used to guys being like crazy where I'm like, eh, whatever. Well, it's probably because he has 20 other girlfriends. Exactly. Yeah, exactly. He was busy. Yeah. And so, um,

Yeah. Allegedly. Allegedly. Allegedly. But yeah, so it was one of those things where I was like, why do I keep going back to this guy when it's just like... It's trying to get the approval of your father. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. And I love having the upper hand and I feel like with him, I didn't have the upper hand and I was like, I'm going to fucking get it. Yeah. Never did. Oh, sorry about that. I will say, I walked away from him a couple times and I was ultimately the one that ended it, but I never felt like I like...

him, you know? And yeah, the only time in my life. So it really fucked with me. Yeah. Well, he has a reputation for being a bad boy and he like lives up to it. I mean, the dude's throwing fucking chairs off roofs, you know? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, I'm listen, I'm glad that didn't work out. I don't want to be more

I feel like Morgan might be a stepping stone, you know, for like finding your true love. Yeah. He's like the bad boy that you want to play with. And then you just, you tuck them away and you put them in the past when you find the man that you love. At the time, quite honestly, I was like, I kind of just want a fuck buddy in Nashville. That's really hard to find here for some reason. And I wanted to make Morgan that, but it was just like, yeah, Morgan seems to be the guy that wants to step up to the plate to be

people's fuck buddies. He's a great fuck buddy. The problem is, honestly, he was on tour. He's so busy. Haley's losing it over here. She knows so many girls that have been with him, too. Even I do. And I'm like, God. Morgan has me the support group. No, literally. Because everyone's heart is broken. I know. Morgan, you're out here breaking people's hearts, man. Oh, Morgan.

But he was so busy, honestly, that it was just like, why the fuck am I... Like, what are we doing? This is silly. So... Yeah, he's just a stepping stone. And he was fun. Like, we had a good time. And so, you know, all good. All good. Jason Stateman. Statham. Statham. How do I pronounce... Jason Statham. Jason Statham. How? That doesn't even seem like your type. Oh, my God. When I was...

How old was I? I was probably like 21. Mm hmm. Oh, he I loved him. Yeah. I mean, not really. But I know he. Yeah, we were really good friends. Is he tiny? Yeah.

He's smaller than you would think. Yeah. Like, they all are, though. You know what I mean? That's my issue with actors. They're never this, like, macho, like... I feel like I'm bigger than every fucking person that I've seen on the big screen. I know. Every time I meet him. And you're tiny. You are so tiny. But so are you. Oh, no. No, you are. But yes, these guys are tiny. Listen, I'm a big-back bitch, and I'll take it. I identify as a big-back bitch. Listen. Hardly. Hardly.

They get so mad at me when I say it, but I'm like, bro, I'm a big black bitch. All right. No, stop it. No, but these guys, that's the thing. They're never what you want them to be ever. And they wear lifts. I know. Yeah. So Jason wear lifts. Uh, no. Okay. All right. Well, maybe in the movies and shit. I don't know. But yeah, but no, but Jason is a, he's a great guy. He's a lot of fun. Did you guys actually like date date or was it just a little bit? Yeah. We dated a little bit. Wow. Yeah. Um,

Um, no, he was, he was great. We had the same group of friends. So we started out as, as friends and then it just kind of escalated. But yeah, no, I, nothing but good things to say about Jason too. How long was it? God, I don't even remember. I mean, we, cause we were friends at first. Um, God, this is so long ago. I would say maybe a year, but not like hooking up and dating, probably a couple of months that that was going on. But yeah. Yeah.

Let's talk about your, cause we're going to, we're going to hop off your dating for a second. Okay. Let's talk about this beef you have with the Kardashians. She's like, let's, let's hop out of one frying pan into another. Okay. Let's go there.

what is it about that family? Because I've had numerous people and they sponsor my podcast. So I do their ads on my podcast too. And I'm like out there talking shit. They just renewed it for 2025. I was with us too. Hey, if you want me to just keep talking shit, I will. No, I love it. So I love that. You know, I think it's cool that they just don't care. They're like, you know what? We're going to fucking just sponsor the podcast. There's a lot of people who have sat on my couch that have different stories

different stories, but the same scenarios with this family. And it comes to a point where it's like, some of it can't be made up. No. I mean, I think the thing is, I feel like we're living in this time right now where karma is like really playing a role and people are being held accountable on a big scale. Yes. And I'm here for that. I love that. And you know, mine really stems from, um,

God, again, I mean, this is, I was probably like 22, 21 or 22. And well,

I had known Scott Disick. Same thing. Same group of friends. We were always buddies. You were with Brody Jenner, weren't you? I dated Brody. Brody was my first boyfriend in L.A. Yeah. So, yeah, it was all that group of people. And Scott and Courtney started dating. That's how I met Courtney. I fucking loved Courtney. We were really good friends. I could see you guys being like you guys are kind of like the same person. Very similar. Courtney was awesome. And they broke up.

And I was doing something in Vegas, actually. And I went with a bunch of my guy friends. Scott happened to be one of the guys that came. Again, we were always just friends. He was devastated about Courtney. And the next morning, we all went out. We had a good time. I was never even alone with Scott. He was devastated about Courtney, but fumbled the ball. How many times? Well, exactly. I mean, men are always like the victim. Always the fucking victim. I'm like, maybe if you got your shit together, it would be a different story.

But so the next morning it was on like page six or something that Scott and I had hooked up and I was like, what in the mother fuck? And my friend Stu was like, I know for a fact that was Scott who told them that planted that to try to make Courtney jealous. Well, what do you know? That's in fact what happened. Courtney was really upset about it. And I remember being on the phone with Courtney being like, Courtney, you know that that's not true. I would never fucking touch Scott.

I don't know. She was like, well, I don't know. I just know I have sisters and I would never put myself in that situation. Her sisters have allegedly been with...

You know, like, okay. Um, and then, so they did end up getting back together and we, you know, we stopped talking, but, but I am like, Scott must've said it was true or something because all it would have taken was for Scott to be like, that's not true. And I'm, that was my issue too. Cause this was on the cover of every fucking tabloid. And I remember doing an interview again before social media. So it's not like you can go on and defend yourself. Yeah. So I remember doing an interview of being like, that's not true. And,

all it would take is one of the Kardashians to be like, that's not true for it to go away, but they wouldn't do that. And that's the part that pisses me off is like this,

I think they have no regard for anyone else other than themselves. They don't really defend themselves either. I guess they kind of don't do that. There's sometimes that there's accusations coming out about them and I'm waiting for one of them to speak up and they never say a fucking word. Well, I think, you know, talk about what we said earlier. They're in the camp of all press is good press for sure. Where I'm like, no, this is my fucking reputation and my name. I'm like, I didn't...

I have an issue when something is so not true. If something comes out and it's true, I'm like, whatever. Yeah, but I'm like, I didn't fucking do that. So that explains why you were so mad when Scott reached back out to you. So I go on my podcast and just was talking shit about the Kardashians. Like nothing in particular, but just talking shit. And then Scott Disick DMs me after fucking 15 years or something. It's like, I miss you. We should hang out.

it just felt so calculated to me and this is what the Kardashians and a lot of people in Hollywood do is when you're out there talking shit they want to shut you up so it's keep your friends close and your enemies closer and I don't play that game it's so fake to me do you feel like Scott is still under control of that family thousand percent oh okay I think so

I feel like he's such a loose line. He's like a loose line. Yeah. Like he is for sure. But I think at the end of the day, they definitely can kind of control. They run them in, in their lives. That's for sure. Yeah. Yeah. They do. Poor Rob. Rob is like disappeared. He's an obscurity. I wasn't dancing with the stars with him. He's the sweetest, but he's kind of, yeah. Where is Rob? Oh yeah. Is Rob okay? Rob, Rob,

Do the red. What is it? What is it? Britney Spears does the yellow rose. Post a yellow rose if you need help. Yeah, exactly. Poor bra. I know. All that estrogen too. It's gotta be just fucking insane. Yeah. So moving on from your beef with the Kardashians, because it's really not even beef. It's not. I feel like it's

legit like your feelings are hurt and Courtney should have been a better friend to know that you would not do that well and it's I honestly I don't even really give a fuck to be honest with you but it's just that the fact that Scott was trying to slide into my D my DMS yeah fuck off yeah but hey you're like look an elephant never forgets and I can I remember everything exactly and you don't want to fuck with someone who has a weekly podcast and

Yeah. You know that? I'll come out and say whatever. I'm also a loose cannon sometimes. Let's talk about your podcast really quick. What is the name of your podcast so people want to listen to it? Let's be honest. Yeah. It's, you know, wherever you get your podcasts. Yeah. And it's a mix. You know, that's what I love is having creative freedom with, you know, Uncommon James and the podcast to talk about whatever I want to talk about. I mean, you get that. Mm-hmm.

If one week I want to talk about, you know, fucking Scott Disick sliding into my DMs or interview a neurosurgeon. Yeah. You know, like I have that freedom, which is really great and keeps it exciting for me. I admire the fact that you can do podcasts by yourself. Thanks. Do you never do them? No, I haven't mastered that. Oh, I feel like you would be so good at that. I feel like nobody wants to hear me talk that much. Oh, that is not true. You would be so good at it. I mean,

as we sit here talking I would probably they'd be like by the time I got done they'd be like does she have five personalities because she literally made herself laugh and she couldn't stop laughing and then she got pissed off like what just happened like it is it's weird it might be bad for me I remember when I started doing them I was like this is the most unnatural awkward thing on the planet I'm just talking to myself like it's weird but it's a it's a muscle you you would be

so good at it Bonnie I feel like you should try it I don't know listen if you guys see me talking to myself it's because Kristen told me to do it

So let's talk about the Montana boy. Okay. Okay. Because listen, I was fucking rooting for you, dude. You were so cute on TikTok. I was. Cause I was like, let this fucking woman live, bro. Thank you. I know. What was the age difference? 13 years. I mean, it's not terrible. I mean, you know, the thing is I will stand by this. I still think age is just a number and it was so interesting for me to see

how up in arms people were because I was older and I'm the woman compared to how it is for men. But Demi Moore and Ashton Kutcher got away with it and they were the cutest thing ever. And there's so many people talk about Jason Statham. I think he's like 20 something years older than Rosie. I mean, like there are so many relationships out there and people don't bat an eye. But when a girl does it, that really pissed me off. I was like, what the fuck? Also, it's not like, I don't know. I think

So, okay, actually, here's my real opinion on it. This is what I think. I don't think people give a shit that I'm dating, that I was dating someone younger. I think it's that...

I can do whatever the fuck I want in my life. I'm out there doing what I want. And a lot of people can't do that. And that's what's triggering for people. Amen. Yeah. And so, yeah, it was fascinating for me to see that whole thing. To see the reaction. Yeah. How did you guys meet? How did that come about? Did you, did you see him on TikTok and you were like, I want that one? Okay. Yeah. Literally I saw him on TikTok and I was like, fuck, he's so hot. Yeah.

but like okay that was that and then like a couple months later he DM'd me on Instagram and I was like what the fuck you manifested that Ily did yeah and then um and then found out they were moving to Nashville and I was like well fuck if this isn't meant to be yeah you're like I mean I just I need to welcome home I needed I needed that fuck buddy yeah I was like oh it's not

Morgan. 13 years younger, you know, it's, it's going to be good. There you go. So how was your guys' relationship? If you could like sum it up in a nutshell, it was great. Honestly. I mean, um, we did have a real connection. I don't want to minimize that at all. He's a really good guy. It was a beautiful relationship. I, you know, I have nothing bad to say. It was fun until it wasn't, you know, it was like, uh,

It just, I felt the age difference. Like no shit, no shock. Like, of course. And I get that. You know, everyone's like, oh, I fucking knew it. It's like, okay, but we all knew it. Let me have fun. I was having fun. It's called the fling for a reason. Exactly. Like, am I supposed to marry everyone I date? Like, I don't understand. I was having fun. And I think people forget that

The last five years have been my dating era. Like I always had boyfriends. I met Jay when I was 23. I never was able to date and figure out exactly what I want and like figure out myself through dating. And so that's what I've been doing the last five years. And yeah,

That was really fun for me. It like sort of was a distraction too. It was a distraction. It was really easy. It just sort of naturally fit into my life. I said this on my podcast, but you know, it's maybe selfish looking back, but I didn't really have to bend for him in a lot of ways. He just kind of fit into my life and with where I'm at in my life, that was really, it was perfect. What you needed. It was what I needed.

And yeah, but Mark's a great guy. And I have, I never even knew his name. I just know him as Montana. I love you.

That's Montana boy. The Montana boy. Anybody that talks to me about it is like, yeah, her and the Montana boy. I know. Did you ever look around when you were with him and just be like, maybe this is not a diss to him at all. It's just maybe this is too small for me because, you know, you do have such a lore and like you're an icon and not saying that he won't be. But I mean, all he has right now is the shirtless TikTok videos. Yeah. And it's I think it's a combination of. Yeah. I mean.

That's not me being mean. I'm just trying to keep it real. He's beautiful. I think, you know, I think when you are young and you don't have life experience coupled with maybe not a lot going on in your life, there's not a lot to talk about. There's not a lot to bring to the table. They're just pretty to look at. Which can go for a minute, you know, that'll get you through for a minute. No, I get it. Until it won't. Yeah.

And so, yes, I, um, I came out of it and was craving real, um, depth and emotional intimacy, intimacy, you know, seduce my mind and then you can have my body. That's what I always say. Yeah. So now I'm like really like in that mode of like, I want to learn something from a man. I want to like, you know, like, yeah, I love that. But there's, but

but that's what I'm saying. Like, it's fun. Like this whole journey that I'm on is really fun and it's the evolution of me and I'm figuring it out. And I love that. Like I had that as part of my overall story. Like, fuck yeah, I dated a 24 year old. Was he ever insecure with like what he had going on and then what you had going on? Did that ever become an issue with you guys? Um, I mean, we have to remember too, we only dated for like seven months. So I think, um, but, um, no, I don't,

I don't think that was an insecurity for him. Listen, I think he was sort of along for the ride. Like he was just like happy as he's like, I'm fucking Kristen Cavallari. You can't tell me shit. You know,

So, no, I don't think that was an issue. Was he sad when you guys broke up? Yeah, it was really hard. It was really hard. And it crushed me, quite honestly, because I knew I was breaking his heart. And so, yes. And actually, it's been one of the harder breakups for me in the sense where, like, normally I'm like, I'm done. Great. I'm moving on. I never even think about the guy again. But I think...

I've had a lot of guilt about it and I feel really bad. And so he's so sweet. He's so sweet. He really is so sweet. And, um, yeah, so that's been, it's been hard for me to like, let it go. And we've stayed in touch too. And I think that probably makes it harder as well. Would you give it another old round? No, the old wraparound as much as I love, you know, getting between the sheets with her. She's all flavor. No, I have to just close that.

that door. She's like, no, I'm fucking healing, all right? I'm trying to heal. Yeah, we're in our healing process. No, I actually, I'm kind of dating someone else now. Can we know who it is? I mean, I'm not going to say who it is, and it's really new, but... Is he in the spotlight also? He is a retired athlete, which I will tell you. You love the athletes. Fuck, they love me, I think. Yeah. They always find me. I love that. But he's... You're a wag. I'm a fucking wag through and through. Oh, my God.

He's such a good guy and he really, it's new, but he checks all the boxes where I'm like, fuck, this is what I've been needing. So we'll see. We'll see. He's coming in a couple days to stay with me. Tell us who it is and we'll bleep the name out. Okay, bleep it out.

Okay, I don't know who it is. Yeah, he wasn't like a big, well, I don't know. I don't know because I don't know athletes really that much. But yeah, he retired a couple years ago and he has so much depth and I just like love talking to him. Is he older? He's 40. Good. Yeah, he has kids. So yeah, we connect on so many different levels, which is awesome. Is he cute?

- Mimi's over there, Mimi's over there googling. - Yes, but let me show you like real photos of him, not like fucking. - Sweaty, sweaty hockey ones. - The athletes never look good in their like, their photos online. I was like, get them in like real life and they're so much better. - No, that's how I felt about, what was that one Raiders, the fire crotch?

He was so damn fine. I even told my husband. I think his last Max Crosby. I was like, we saw him at a game and I was like, who's this? And I said, baby, my new, my text, my husband, I go, my new favorite number is I think 98. And that was his number. And he goes, oh, you're a Max Crosby. I love it. My husband.

And my husband was like, go baby, go. See, that's such a good relationship when you're just confident and secure. Like the fact that you can say that to him. I feel like all my ex-boyfriends would be like, what? Oh my God. Are you going to leave me for him? You know what I mean? Like that energy. And yep, I've been in relationships like that and I refuse.

I won't do it again. It took me a long time when I got with Jay to really understand the non jealousy because I came from such jealous relationships and I used to get upset with him. I'm writing about this in my book actually. And I used to get kind of upset with him. Like, do you not love me?

Like, why aren't you like fighting for me? Fight over me. You know, but I realize that's the toxicity in me that wanted that in him. And he never, he never rose to that occasion. And now I'm just like, God, I couldn't imagine being with a jealous human like that. Like I'll never do that again. Yeah. Never, never, ever. I love that for you. That's so nice. You're going to find it too. I know. You're too much of a beautiful woman to not have somebody see how fucking special you are. Thank you. Yeah. It's coming, baby. I can feel it.

Yeah, me too. Let's talk about this home invasion that you were just like you just recently started talking about it. Yeah, I haven't talked about it because honestly, my kids still don't know. And even when I talked about it on my podcast and it kind of, you know, hit the media and stuff, I was sort of sitting there like, fuck, is my oldest gonna say something to me? Because he's on. He has all the things. Yeah. Yeah.

My boys have phones and stuff, but he never said anything to me. So I was like, all right, hopefully he dodged that bullet. Yeah, we won't clip this. Yeah, don't clip this. We won't. So it was actually, it was during 2020. So we were in the Bahamas for spring break.

and we ended up being there for a month because it was when COVID hit. And I had all my uncommon James jewelry like laid out in my closet. And earlier in the day, our HVAC unit broke. So we had workers in the house fixing it. And okay. So Camden, my oldest and I, who this is almost five years ago. So he was like, what, six or seven? Don't make me do math on the spot. But he was sleeping with me that night. So we went to bed.

So I had no idea where anyone else was in the house. And I woke up to the door was opening and the light from the kitchen woke me up and I was so out of it. I honestly thought it was Jay and thank God because I go crawling on the bedroom floor. I go, what the fuck are you doing? Yeah.

And this guy is like, oh, fuck. Stands up, runs out, and I was like, whole fuck. He had a ski mask on, long black sleeves, black pants, like the whole nine. Like while you're sleeping. Sleeping with my fucking baby in bed with me. So I think because...

Well, so then I'm like, holy fuck, but I didn't want to wake up Camden. So your instincts just kick in. But I'm like, fuck, I have to go out in this house and figure this out. I have no idea where he is or where Jay is or the kids or whatever. So.

I grab my phone. I text Jay. I'm like, are you awake? No response. Cause it's like 1am. So I'm like, fuck, I go out in the house and I'm just like looking around. I go in another bedroom. No one's there. I go upstairs. Finally I find Jay. As soon as I woke up Jay, I got really nervous. Like before that I was like a fucking Navy seal. Just like,

Like your mama bear. Yeah. Your instincts just kick in. And then once Jay woke up, I was like shaking and I got so scared. Long story short, it was one of the HVAC unit guys. He took all the cash that we had in a backpack, but we got it back. It was like a guy that worked at the resort that we were at. And you wanted to go to the Bahamas. I know. You know, it's fucked up. I've been back to that resort since. Bitch is like YOLO. Can't scare me, bitch. I love that.

love that though you're like you know what I'm gonna go back and just face it head on exactly face your fears yeah you know yeah and I so that's like one of those things that I won't tell my kids that until they're older but unless you know I keep talking about it and they find out but it's crazy that you don't have fear from that you know because like that's that's scary you have fucking PTSD from that I know I'll tell you what I don't know I think even living

in LA and stuff I used to be so scared living in this little house that I had in West Hollywood you know you're on top of your neighbor the whole thing but living out here I'm like 20 minutes from here in the middle of nowhere I'm on 130 acres I feel so safe like so safe again it's just at peace and it's just a good feeling I don't know yeah I feel I've got German shepherds I've got a gun I've got the whole thing so it's like I just said bitch I'm strapped with dogs don't get it twisted but

But I just, yeah, I feel really, really safe out here. I love that. Yeah, it's a good feeling. What does 2025 have in store for you? That's a good question. I hope to just continue to just kind of be where I'm at. I used to be such a planner and be like, I need to do X, Y, and Z this year. And I've gotten into this more of a headspace of just like letting life unfold. And that's not to say I don't have goals. You know, I'm going on a podcast tour. Like there are really fun things happening. Yay!

but I'm just kind of like letting it all happen. Yeah. So I don't, I don't know. Whatever, whatever happens happens. Yeah. Just letting the universe just come to you freely. Yeah. Pretty much. Thanks. I love where you're at in life. I love the space that you're in. I feel like you've fought to be here and it's, you know, something to be proud of. Thank you. Appreciate that. A lot of people don't figure it out. And a lot of people, you know, victimize themselves or they, you know, uh,

wallow in self-pity and you're just out here being like, you know what? This has happened. I did this. I did this. I take accountability and I'm moving the fuck on. Well, because there's no growth in the victim mentality, you know? So yeah, you got to take charge of your life. Like that's what I would tell people. Take your life in your own hands and do the damn thing. I love it. Yeah. I'm going to be doing that with you in 2025. I'm planning like a birthday trip for me and I never do that. Good. It's the first time I've celebrated my birthday and I can't even...

- Yeah, she was shook. But I wanna go out of the country. - Good, yes. - This year, I'm just kind of like, I have worked my ass off my whole life. I just wanna fucking kind of have fun this year. - Yes, as you should. - I might even drink some alcohol, all right? And I've been sober since 2017.

You know, so I'm like, look at Haley's. Hey, I got, I drink a beer with Haley one night. Are you sober? Sober? You California sober? No, I'm sober. Sober. Amazing. I white knuckle through life, baby. It's yeah. No, it's brutal. It's brutal. But I had to, I had to do it for my spiritual and you know, emotional healing that I had to go through. When I hit 40, now I'm about to be 45. So I'm like, you know what? I've done the work. Yeah. Let me fucking just have fun. There you go. See, I love that. Good. You should go have some fun.

No, that's why I understand where you're at too. Just letting things happen. So yeah, I love it. Thank you for coming on the podcast. I appreciate you being here. I appreciate you so much. We actually get to end the season with Kristen, right? Oh, hell yeah. Yeah. So you're like our season finale, baby. Going out with a bang. Yes. Well, thank you. Thank you. And tell people where they can find you if they don't know. So just Kristen Cavallari, Instagram and TikTok. And then Let's Be Honest, my podcast every Tuesday.

Yeah. You guys go check her out. You'll fall in love with her just like I did. I love you. What is it in 2020? 2006? 2004. 2004. God, I can't believe it. 20 years. 20 years ago. Yeah, it's wild. It makes me feel old. Insane. Thank you guys for tuning in to another episode of Dumb Blonde. I'll see you guys next season. Bye.