Season 8: Best Of (Part 3)
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Is this thing on? What's up, babies? Today, we have a rock and roll angel in the house. And I am so honored to have Ms. Melissa Etheridge in the house, baby. Yay. How are you doing? I am fantastic. Dude, I never thought, this is like a dream come true. I just have to tell you, I don't think you realize how many nights I took my clothes off to your music.

I'm telling you, man. Yes. When I was in the strip club, you were my jam on the stage, baby. My crew used to go. We'd do a show if we had a night off. They would go to the strip clubs, and it would bum them out so much. Every time my songs came on, they'd be like, the boss is watching us. No.

I love that. We just went to a strip club literally two weeks ago, and we went to go see male weenie boys. That's what we call them. Yeah. Some guy comes out to a jelly roll song. I was like, son of a bitch. I know. She totally kills everything. I was like, my lady boner is gone. Lady boner is gone, dude. No, but for real. Because I stripped in the early 2000s. So, I mean, you were on fire. Thank you. I've had fun in some strip clubs before.

hearing my songs. I bet. Oh my gosh. I could only imagine the type of attention you got. There's so much I want to talk to you about and it's like I don't even know where to start. I enabled for a while. I mean, I love my family and you might know when you make a lot of money all of a sudden, it becomes very weird with your family. Mm-hmm.

I've had to cut motherfuckers off left and right. Exactly. Okay. I'm just telling you. Because you want to make people happy. And back then, I thought, oh, well, if I provide this, then they'll...

They'll do this and they never do. It just doesn't. You can't do it for anyone else. It takes away their desire anyway. But my sister tried that and I had to cut everything off. And I did. And nowadays, I think I saw her. I hadn't seen her like 17 years. And I saw her. I...

Her daughter and I are very close. I helped her daughter out. You started playing in bars when you were 12 years old. What in the hell? Like, I know it was a different era back then. I feel like the era of like the I wasn't around the 70s, but the 80s, the 90s and even the 2000s was such a fucking cool time.

Like, right? Compared to now, I feel like everybody's offended about everything. Like, you can't fucking say anything. Like, I just feel like back then was just like such a more lax era, I guess you could say. It was more magical, it almost felt like, you know? There was a lot of magic. Yes, sometimes I look back and my wife will laugh when I say, you know, I was playing a prison and I showed her a picture of

The whole act that went in there with me, I sang, but we had dancers and comedians and

you know, acrobat people, you know. And they were all in completely inappropriate outfits in the 60s, right? Going into a prison. Right. So that was that. Now the bars, my father would go with me every single time. I was never without my father. So dad was like a constant figure in your life. Constant. That's amazing. He didn't drink. He would go, he would sit there with a Coke and just, and he would listen and then he would help me carry my equipment out. And he was...

I think he liked it because we would go every Friday and Saturday night, every weekend. And I think the marriage was maybe a little because she was having a hard time. And it was a very peaceful time for him and I. We would really enjoy each other's company and just and he would go sit and listen. And he wasn't one that like critiqued me.

And he didn't also, wow, you're really good or anything like that. He just, he just, he just knew it was something that made you happy. Absolutely. And he just supported it. That's amazing. That's really cool. Um, with that situation that was going on with your mom too, just circling back to that, how did you not internalize your mom's anger and pain? Like, how did you avoid that? Do you think your relationship with your father helped you to not internalize it?

Hmm. Cause I know how it is to be around people with depression and sometimes it's very easy to soak up their energy too. Yeah. Well, I got out of there as fast as I could. Okay. You know, when I was 18, like I graduated high school and,

and I went to college for a minute. You went to Berkeley College, right? Not just anybody can get into Berkeley College, by the way. Well, it's true. That's true back then. But I didn't go for very long. I only went for a few months because I wanted to sing and play. And I'd already been playing and making music, so I just found a restaurant that had a lounge in it that I could go play and I could make money and work on my dream. I really was not...

a kind of girl that would sit there. It was not a studious musician. No, no. I feel like musicians, you have to be creative. You can't just be put as there are some who can do that, but the majority you're creative. You can't be like stifled by a classroom. No, it was great. The minute they would tell me you have to do this note has to come after that. I'm like, it does not. It's music. What are you saying? There has to do this, but that was a, it was more of a jazz based thing and that's a whole different mindset.

But even to get accepted into Berklee, like that's a huge feat. That just goes to show what kind of musician you are, though, because like I think they said that it's like a 54 percent acceptance rate to even get into there now. Wow, that's amazing. That's great.

Back then it wasn't like that. It was brand new, but yeah, but you know, it's, it's all good. And it is a very good school and they've, I actually got an honorary doctorate from them. So it really pisses the rest of my family off, but I love it. The wild child gets, gets the doctorate. I love that. You're the black sheep turns into the goat. There you go. There you go. I've never heard that. Yeah. That's why I love it. I stole it. It was a meme.

It was a meme and I was like, I relate. So I just stole it. How did you define your sound? Because you have such a raspy, just bluesy, just your voice is just so amazing. Well, I sang from the, from the time I was 13. Yeah. Did you have that bluesiness and that rasp even at 13? Well, I,

I played in country bands first, even though I didn't, that wasn't my first choice of music. I listened a lot, a lot to it. I, you know, your classic stuff. Um, but I would sing all those songs and they're all very throaty, very full, you know, the Tammy, why not? And even Linda Ronstadt, that sort of singing like that. And I'd listened to Gladys Knight. I'd listened to Aretha and I'm like, you gotta sing from, from here. And, um,

I guess I've always sort of had this voice because I do remember the choir teacher I also went to

I'd go play in the bars and then I'd go to church on Sunday. I love that. That's what we do. Rock and roll angel, baby. There you go. But I would sing in the choir and she used to put me in the very back because she'd say I had the weirdest voice. Oh. So it's kind of, it's a good thing now. It's good. I'm very grateful for my voice. I bet she fucking ate shit when she saw you winning Grammys. There's been a few of those. I've got many of those. I'm good there. But it's just something that has developed over time.

And I've worked on it, and it's sort of a week. It sounds like I drink a lot of whiskey and smoke a bunch of cigarettes. I love it. I write like that. I've written songs, and I'm smoking cigarettes and drinking whiskey, but I don't. Yeah. I never did. Did you maintain your sobriety even all through childhood and teenage? Alcohol was never a problem with me. One, because I saw my mom. Right. And I saw my father, who didn't drink, and I said, I want to be like Dad. I just, that's...

I tend to think that children go where it's warm, you know, and that was warm. And I'd play at 13, 14, 15, and I'd see these people get drunk, and I'm like, well, that's stupid. And nothing attractive about it. It held nothing attractive. I'd see people get all sloppy and stuff at the end of the night. And fights, oh, my God, you know, beer bottles thrown and hiding behind the organs so the chairs don't get chipped. You know, I saw a lot.

I can only imagine at such a young age and the bars back then were just crazy. Yes. They were not very politically correct. Oh no, there's nothing like that about there. But again, I always felt safe. My father was there every single night. I love that. We love dad. Is dad still alive? No, I lost dad at 30. It was really, really difficult. Oh my God. I just lost my dad in May. So I can only imagine how that goes.

Yeah, it's brutal. But they're always here. Yeah. He's been there. 30 years he's been there. For sure. I've never seen more fucking butterflies. I'm like, Bill, I get the damn point. Okay. I got it. I got it. I know you're here. So moving on from Berkeley. Yeah. How old are you then when you start like venturing out and you, you got your first record deal when? Cause I know you dropped your first album in 1988. Yeah. When was the space in between there that you got signed? So I,

I finally, I went back to Kansas after Boston, made enough money, played at a restaurant, Granada Royale Hometown, played in the lounge, made enough money, buy a car, got a car, drove to Los Angeles in 1982. So I was 21 years old.

And L.A. in the 80s was magnificent. It was great. Tell me about it. It was magnificent. Tell me about it. Because I got to grow up with the Hollywood, too, in the 80s and the 90s. And it was like so, you know, as a child, seeing that. It was a drama queen's thing.

It was theater. It was, we're going to wear our hair so weird. We're going to try to do everything weird and against until it became the style, you know, until everyone's doing it. You know, I remember. That's where they got the nickname Holly weird. Yes. You know, we, we, we would shave the side of our heads and, you know, cause I went in with the lesbian crowd, you know, the gay crowd, the deep, deep,

You know, and we're just we're just the weirdest ones ever. You know, we're we were the first ones to go to the Salvation Armies and get the vintage clothing and stuff like that. You know, no, that was back when you could walk in and find amazing. Yeah, that you think, why would someone throw this away? So we we were living that. And I loved it. And I got really deeply into the whole lesbian world because I ended up.

playing lesbian bars. So you played like the gay circuit? Oh yeah. There wasn't even a gay circuit back then. Because I know in Vegas they had one. There was like a whole little circuit that you could go and just, they called it the Fruit Loop. But it was like, they said it in the most endearing way, you know? Of course. So I didn't know if Hollywood had one of those too. No, we didn't have a Fruit Loop. But we had a lot of fruits and nuts. But no, these were just like,

The bars, one was in Long Beach. I love Long Beach. Yeah, and it had just opened. But I ended up playing a place in Pasadena and Long Beach.

And hardly ever in L.A. because there wasn't a live music scene. But I had created these. They weren't looking for work. I actually was there on a date and saw a piano in the corner and said, hey, do you have music? They said, no, that came with the steakhouse that used to be here. But you want to play it? So they let me. I created these jobs because there was nobody making money in Hollywood. Everyone was playing for free. Wow. And so I played for...

Four years in these bars, and I thought, how am I ever going to be signed in a lesbian bar? No one's ever going to see me. But slowly, the wife, who was a soccer coach...

The girls brought her in. You got to hear this girl. And then the wife tells the husband who's a manager, a music manager, managed bread and whatever. He comes down. He's like, well, and this is 1983. And he sticks with me for, well, we ended up working together for 30 years. But he said, look, I don't know what's happening, but I believe you have a great talent. I think you can do this. And he even said, he goes, stay in the lesbian bars forever.

I will bring the people to you. You're making money, right? You're making a living. You can pay your rent. And every single record company over those four years came out to see me. Wow. And they would go, like Warner Brothers brought out all the tables and there'd be, I don't know whether it was because they were surrounded by lesbians or what it was, but they would always, you know, then say, oh, we don't hear a hit. And they never knew. And it wasn't until 1986.

1986, I'm playing in Long Beach.

And a producer guy who had tried to get me a deal with A&M knew Chris Blackwell. Chris Blackwell owned Island Records. He discovered Bob Marley. He brought Bob Marley to the world. He was from Jamaica. He was this eccentric, rich son of the Blackwell soups or something and Jamaican. And he brought U2, Robert Palmer. He was just a great music guy. And he walked into the bar.

Heard four songs and said, I don't know why you're not signed and signed me right there. What were record deals back then? Because I know they're so different now. Like what did they like offer you? Am I allowed to ask that? Yeah. Let me see if I can remember the first one. Because I'm fascinated with the inner workings of how that is. Because I mean, you've seen the music industry change so much. I sold 25 million albums and Island Records still say I owe them money.

Yeah. Wow. That's how bad the record company, but they've forgiven it at this point. It's like, Oh, stop it. What do you mean? The record deals back then were crazy. No, it's you. You didn't even your lawyers would just go, you know, because they didn't have to sign you. They did. There was so much music. They weren't like they were doing you a favor and you knew that you knew that you had to get through this door or you would, it, there was, you're pretty much,

signing, not, I don't want to say signing your life away, but you're signing your, the rights to yourself just so that you can do. For a while. So that company will blow you up and take all the money from it, but you will get the fame. Yes. And that's, I kind of realized that. And I had a good manager who told me, who said, look, you know, it's not about your records. Don't even think about that because that really doesn't exist. It's about your publishing because you write that I can make the money from the publishing. That's,

When you see an artist who doesn't write their own stuff, who doesn't really like to perform, they're not going to be around for a while because performing is your bread and butter. And that I started, you know, I'd already been playing these bars and clubs. Then I made a record and I went out and played more bars and clubs.

And then it just grew from there. And I wouldn't, I would not trade that for the world for the first, my first album came out in 1988 and I played everywhere. I played Europe and Australia and all these places because the, the first album did well. So you traveled everywhere after you dropped your album. I'm going to look at my notes real quick because there was something really cool that I realized with these albums that you dropped. So you dropped, you

you know, May 2nd, 1988, you dropped your first album and then you had a hit, Bring Me Some Water that was nominated for a Grammy. But then you go on to drop two more albums. Another album gets nominated for Grammys, right? And then you win a Grammy award. Yeah. That's insane. And your first three albums, you get a Grammy award. Like that's insane. Yeah.

That really surprised me because it wasn't, I didn't even get, a lot of people think I won for Best New Artist, but I didn't get that. I wasn't even nominated for that. It was back when they had a category called Best Female Rock Vocal. They don't have that anymore. They should, though. I know. But first, I was nominated. I was nominated each year.

I've been nominated 17 times. That's crazy. But still, that's crazy. It was great because my career really went from here to huge. I went from selling 60,000 albums to like almost a million after the Grammys because the Grammys had that large of a reach. And it was because, not because I was nominated, but because I performed. Wow.

And it was a very special year. This was 1989. And Tracy Chapman performed. Sinead O'Connor performed. Oh, my goodness. I performed. My manager actually strong-armed the producers into letting, they wanted to mash all our songs up. And he said, are you kidding? This is such a strong year for women. You've got to let them have their thing. And they let us each sing our songs by ourselves. And it was really powerful Grammys. That's amazing. I didn't win, but I performed.

It's all right. You were there, baby. You had your foot in the door. We actually just got to see Tracy Chapman at the Grammys perform with Luke Holmes. And I was like, I was, that was the highlight of my night was to get to see her perform because, you know, it's such a rarity these days. What a beautiful song. Oh, just so good. I was just like, I was so thankful to be there in that moment because it was just really magical. I loved it. Guess what month it is, Mimi? It's October. And you know what that means. What?

True crime, baby. True crime is my favorite. For the next four weeks, we are going to be covering all different sorts of true crime stories. And the podcast just gets turned into just so much fun. It's our favorite time of year. It really is. Yeah. As you can see, we're on the tour bus. So we are making it work in very small working conditions. We made it feel very homely with our decorations. Yep. I love it.

I like it. Frickin' bats. Frickin' bats. I'm so excited. Well, all right. So we just got done doing a meet and greet. It was so much fun. We are in, where are we? Pittsburgh. Pittsburgh. Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, baby. And we are just smack dab in the middle of tour. Coming in hot. Coming in hot, baby. It's been a brutal month. Yeah. We had a day off yesterday and-

We got suspended at the beach, but someone was sick. I almost died because I took tri-zepatide this week, and we'll talk about that on another podcast. But listen to Ask, Tell, Confess. We just went through that. Yeah, well, I didn't tell my whole story, though. So on another Ask, Tell, Confess, I'll definitely tell you guys the whole story of what's happening. But anyways, so who are we talking about today? So today, this is actually a recent case that

I mean, how recent really was this? It's very recent. Like within what? The last year, I think. Yeah. Carly Gregg has been on everyone's For You pages, I'm sure. Because that video, I mean, you never really get the amount of video that this has. Like, when I dove into this case, the amount of security footage that she did not

Take care of? No, it was crazy. I was shocked. So we've got home footage. This happened because she was 14 when it happened and she was 15 when she got convicted. March 19th. So March 19th, 2024. This just happened. This is so fresh. Yeah, this just happened. And there was a lot to this case that I didn't know via TikTok. So once we actually dove into it and learned about it, I was shocked. I feel like it changed my mind on a couple things. I feel like.

This is going to be interesting. Yeah, it's definitely interesting because you and I disagree. We do. We do disagree. I feel like I sense a child who just wants to be accepted by people around her. Yes. Like somebody who feels like she's never been accepted into one peer group. And that being she is also much younger than her peers at that time. She did become...

romantic with a fellow student and they really felt the mom really felt like she shouldn't be i mean she's at this point she's like what 12 13 yeah you shouldn't be romantic with anybody anybody granted my first kiss was when i was 12 but still yeah when was your first kiss

they're probably about the same yeah yeah i was with tongue oh yeah i didn't go right away james at the bus stop at the bus stop at the bus stop yeah wow yeah mine was on my friend's bed

God, you little hussy. I was. You're a freaking hussy. Was it just kissing? He just kissed me. His name was Trevor. Trevor. Trevor sounds like a cute boy. I feel like all the cute boys' names were Trevor. Yeah, his name was Trevor. He was like my first like real boyfriend. Anyways, sorry, babe. Jason's over there editing this like what? So can't believe she kissed somebody at 12 before me. Carly was placed on antipsychotics.

And which antipsychotics when you're 11 or 12, your brain is still developing. And you guys know how I feel about putting children on medication. Do I think that there are some exceptions to the rule? Absolutely not.

Do I think people, some people really need it? Absolutely. But I also feel like a child's mind is still forming. It's still, you know, you're growing, you're going through so many hormonal changes. Like you are giving a child antipsychotics. You do not know how they're going to react in that child's brain. Yeah, no, literally. And what affects them.

good and bad is going to have. You're trying to do it just for the good, but like, man, there's so many bad side effects. So many. And I think that's what we actually ended up seeing happen because she was on different antipsychotics. And at some point, the doctors were basically like, we don't know what else to do. And that's sort of, if you guys know anything about Lexapro, Lexapro is one of those drugs I truly feel like

a doctor gets to a point where they're like, I don't know what else is going to help. So we're going to just throw Lexapro at it and hope this just takes care of whatever problem you have. They put you on Lexapro, didn't they? No, it wasn't Lexapro. I almost refused because it's like it was in discussion, but it was in discussion with other medications.

Lexpro is something I never wanted to put myself on because of the side effects and changes I've seen within people. And I do feel like they're permanent changes. I feel like that truly alters your brain and it makes you almost unhuman, which is what we saw with Carly. Super numb, like unemotional. Exactly. And there were some medications that I remember being on when I was on antidepressants, which made me feel like that. So I could not imagine...

I'm even close to imagine what she went through because I know what that numb feeling feels like. I feel like this is a little girl who was screaming out for help and didn't know how to get it. And she just became a product of her environment. Absolutely. And, you know, I, I,

I don't want to say that I sympathize with her, but I mean, she's a child, dude. How many of us made severe mistakes when we were younger? Granted, we did not kill people. No. And that's not right at all. But, you know, they switched her to this Lexapro and then five days later, what happens? Yes. She kills her mother. Only five days prior was this new medication introduced.

and within those five days i can guarantee you she never saw anyone to see how she was feeling those people throw these medications at you and are like well we'll see what happens in a month yeah i know in those five days you did not go see a doctor i know in those five days you did not get checkups nothing day of the murder um you know everything was normal that day i think um

They had just gotten home from school. Was that what it was? Yeah. So she had taken her like a completely normal day because they both went to school together. Mom worked there and the dad leaves shortly after the stepdad. Right. Leaves shortly after them in the morning. And everyone who interacted with them at school that day were like, it was a normal day. Yeah. Like everything was normal. And, you know, when they got home,

Carly went to go walk the dogs. Ashley, her mom, did a check of her room like she normally does.

And she did a check of her room that day because a friend had snitched on Carly and told the mom that day that they were concerned for her because she had began, you know, dabbling in vapes and like was becoming an addict. Like she had to smoke weed every day. She had to have the vapes and all that stuff. So while Carly was out walking the dogs, that was her mom's opportunity to go through her room. She ended up finding four vapes, weed cartridges too, I believe. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

So when her mom was going through her room, Carly walks in on her mom searching her bedroom and found that her mother had, you know, found all of her stuff. And I understand how enraging that is as a child because my stepmom used to go through my shit all the time. And it's like, you just feel like you have no privacy. So I guarantee she was just fucking livid. You know, she was just like, does this woman ever fucking leave me alone? You know? So after that had happened,

And Carly's mom was done searching her room. Carly went into her mom's room, which kind of surprises me because where was her mom at that she could go in her room? I'm sure still in Carly's room. Okay. Yeah. So while her mom is still searching her room. Because she said they were kind of in an argument at that point. And it happened so fast. Mm-hmm.

So while Ashley's still doing Carly's room, Carly goes to her mom's nightstand where her mom keeps a 38 special and you can see her on camera and Jason will insert the video here for everybody. You can see Carly walk into her mom's bedroom and then she walks out of her mom's bedroom

hiding the gun behind her back. So obvious. Like, yeah. Like what is that? But that tells me that she wasn't crazy because she knew that there was cameras in the house and she knew to hide the gun. I would think that if you had lost your mind and you were kind of crazy, like,

Granted, I understand she's probably going through a roller coaster of emotions coming off antipsychotics, going on to Lexapro. Yes, and probably numb to everything and not thinking in her right mind, but she wasn't so crazy enough to not realize that there was cameras watching her. We'll get to that part. So Carly walks by the cameras, like we said, with the gun behind her back and

Yep.

During the trial, some of her friends even testified that she was on numerous drugs, too. So you have to think this girl's taken antipsychotics. She's taking Lexapro and she's on various drugs, which we don't know what they are. But especially like in the vapes, you don't know what you're getting these days. No, these kids. I know Bailey's had kids overdose at her school just from hitting a vape. You know, so it's like you don't know where this girl's mind really was. Yes, she was cold. Yes, she was.

borderline calculated with some of the things she did, but it was also a crime of passion, which makes it so weird. There's like just a smorgasbord of... It's a 50-50 for me. You definitely planned some of it, but in the other sense of it, I'm like...

Are you really that stupid? Yeah. So with all the footage and the testimony, they ended up sentencing her to life in prison for murder without parole, life in prison for attempted murder without parole, plus 10 more years for tampering with evidence. Yeah.

Which, what's the tampering? Putting the towel over her mom's face? Probably towel and who knows what else. She could have probably, you know. Moved the mom's body or something? Like if she was in there for a while, she definitely was within the crime scene. So she was doing something. Yeah. Yeah. So after the, after her sentencing, the stepfather spoke out.

And he had a statement. So let's read what the stepfather had to say. He said, I am ashamed. I'm embarrassed. I'm angry. I'm upset. And I'm very sad. I loved Ashley Smiley too. We were married for almost a decade. And yeah, he didn't comment about anything else. You would think that he would comment on telling her I love her during marriage.

The trial. Yep. I'm just skimming through this. Yeah. That's all he said. That is so strange to me. Yeah. I would, I am very anxious to see how this plays out. This does play out because there is bound to be more evidence that gets released to the public. Once all of this becomes public.

I would love to see more about, you know, him taking the stand versus, you know, her taking the stand. He did take the stand. I mean, like, just... It's very interesting what evidence... I want to know what happened... I want to know what happened at home. Like, let's go through those phone records. Yeah. Let's go through those fucking counseling therapy sessions. Yes. Because...

Lyle and Eric Menendez confided in their therapist about the rapes and stuff like that. But she didn't go to therapy for long. It literally says that she went very temporarily and then the mom never followed back up on it.

Yeah. So do we think that the mom never followed back up on it or did Carly reveal something that the mom didn't like? Today is going to be fun because I got my boy JD DeLay in the house. Baby, what's going on? What's up, sis? How you doing? Dude, I'm so good. I'm so happy to have you here. I'm so stoked to be here. I almost like bleached my hair to be here to fit in. The beard. The beard. No, I can't do the beard. The beard's sacred. Okay.

Why are men like that with their beards? So it's the male pushup bra. Like you can't see my undefined unchiseled jawline. I'm not Thorne Bradley under here. So I have to have the beard. I feel like you guys all say that about your jawlines. And then when you shave them off, like some of you guys have a really good chins and really good jawlines. Is that like an insecurity with men? Is their jawlines and their chins?

I mean, I think so. Like, uh, you know, I've classically throughout my life struggled with my weight. So, you know, there'll be a period of time, uh, you know, if I'm not on with my fitness where I would have a little bit of a double chin and, you know, it just looked really pronounced on me. I felt like I looked like a Turkey. So, uh, you know, the beard really comes in in the clutch, but I'm doing halfway good about my weight right now and everything, but it's always a struggle. It's like a sliding scale. As soon as I started bodybuilding, I got body dysmorphia. I have, uh,

I have swole erexia. I always think I'm smaller than I am. Is that a real thing? Oh yeah. Wow. Bodybuilding will ruin your self image issues. I was talking with my girl Jessica about this cause she does bikini comps and we were talking about it last night and I was like, I already have an eating disorder. If I was competing like how you guys do like in those competitions, I'd

or doing any sort of bodybuilding, I would fucking tear myself apart more than I already do. Like that's a crazy thing to get into what makes people want to get into the bodybuilding aspect and do those competitions and stuff. I mean, for me, it just became an addiction that sort of like I did a replacement addiction when I first got out of prison. Um, you know, I started hitting the gym real hard and I met a dude that was a bodybuilding coach. He had a whole team of just

Just amazingly built people. And I didn't really know what I was doing on a major level. So I went up to the biggest gnarliest, like best chisel dude there. And I asked him, I said, Hey, I don't know what I'm doing, man. Can you just give me a couple of tips? And he's like, come work out with this brother. What people don't realize is that those people that are serious about bodybuilding, they're

they're the kindest people. Like they can be so intimidating, but he just took me under his wing and it really just became a replacement addiction that really helped me to stay out of trouble for a really long time. I'm sure people are like, okay, what's Bunny doing? It's true crime. Why do we have JD here? So you and I met,

pretty much online because, you know, you have gone to bat for my husband a lot and for me, and we really, really want to just give you your flowers and tell you that thank you and that we appreciate that. As a matter of fact, my husband is at a Titans game right now, and he's like, you want to go? And I was like, no, I can't. I have a podcast today. And he's like, oh, who's it with? And I was like, J.D. Delaney. He goes, the prison dude? Yeah.

And I was like, yeah, he goes, I fucking love him. And I was like, I didn't know that. He's like, yeah, dude. He's like, I want to meet him. And I was like, okay, well, you know, stop by the studio on your way back from the game. So he's making it a point to come here because he wants to see you. Yeah. Huge. He loves you.

His music has gotten me through such dark times in my life when I was in early recovery where I didn't love myself at all in any way, shape or form, you know, like Addiction Kills. And I listened to him when I was trapping, when he was doing trap raps and everything. But Addiction Kills was such a defining album for me.

for me just cathartically, like as far as music being medicine that got me through dark times. Um, and he's just stayed being a staple of, you know, my go-to when I need support and therapy through music. So I was a 20 year career criminal and drug addict. All of my, uh, crimes were drug fueled crimes. I've never been arrested sober. Uh,

And, uh, you know, I think it all started, I was sexually abused when I was young. So a lot of my content is going after sexual predators. Um, a lot of the things that I've done in my life has, uh,

I don't ever want to blame my actions on anything else, but I feel like there were two separate paths and I went down a path and eventually I had to realize that I was using what happened to me as a permission statement for me to continue acting in horrible ways, you know, ways that hurt myself, ways that hurt the people that loved me, ways that hurt the community around me. You know, I was given an opportunity by a judge when I was facing a significant amount of time to be able to go to a treatment center and

And that treatment center changed my life. That judge changed my life. He had no reason to have any faith in me. I just got busted with an ID printer. I was printing out credit cards. We had counterfeit money. Oh, you were a scammer. Well, so, you know, I originally went to prison for stealing cars. I was a pretty prolific car thief back then. And I hated it. I hated that, you know, this was...

It was a crime where I was, you know, taking things from other people that were hardworking people. I always had this stupid justification in my mind that, you know, oh, there's insurance, but it was the bullshit that I told myself to be able to do the things that I knew were wrong.

Um, you know, when I was doing, uh, when I was doing credit card fraud, I was going after pharmaceutical company representatives. So I was stealing from pharmaceutical companies. Um, I'd seen what they'd done with the opioid epidemic and I'd lost so many friends and I just found, um,

Another justification, you know, it's like I'm not stealing from people. I'm stealing from these evil corporations. The Secret Service granted me a little perspective. They put me on my face. SWAT team and Secret Service grabbed me in Florida for that. And I got charged with organized fraud, counterfeiting, fraud.

I ended up, they came at me later with sales of methamphetamines. They had a controlled buy on me from one of my best friends. Should have listened to my dog. My dog never liked that person. Only person she never liked. So they were snitching on you. Yeah. Well, you know what? I was doing scumbag stuff and you know, it is what it is. That person today is clean and sober and they work in the recovery industry. And I actually was their sponsor for a little bit, even after they did the controlled buy on me.

Um, you know, I'm never one to condone snitching. I don't think you can condone or you can snitch on sex offenders. And I don't think that civilians that aren't involved in the game can snitch, but I don't condone snitching amongst, you know, criminals, but, uh,

I just felt like I had received so much grace that I needed to extend that grace wherever I could. So, plus he'd been like my best friend, you know? That's beautiful though, that you could forgive somebody for that. Because, you know, growing up in the streets, we're taught to not forgive people who, you know, quote unquote, rat us out and stuff like that. Well, anybody else can judge him for what he did if they want to. I've chosen to let that go. Yeah.

That's powerful though. Now I see what the impact that he's having on the world around him now that he's clean and sober. And he's like, literally he works in a hospital and when people overdose, he's the person who comes and tries to help them, you know, get them into detox, get them into treatment, sober living, sets them up with a program. And I do work a lot in that vein. You know, that treatment center really gave me the tools because you can,

You can never build somebody's house in recovery, but you can offer them the tools so they can put in the work themselves. And they gave me the tools. And today I'm a recovery coach, peer support recovery specialist, and a smart recovery facilitator. And I own my own recovery coaching business. And it's doing that work is what feeds my soul. And a lot of the other work that I do really is what brings in the money so that I can keep doing my outreach to people.

I love that. That is such a beautiful testimony. And you have a really big YouTube channel too. Like it's, you have a pretty...

big online following as well. So, I mean, there's a lot of people who support and love what you're doing. Yeah. I've been blessed, man. Uh, I don't like to think of my, my YouTube as a channel. It's a community. Um, it's about every single person who, uh, is a part of it subscribed or not just as much as it is me. We support each other in the comments. We love each other in the lives. We cheer for each other's sober versaries. And you know, when people graduate or get new jobs, um, but it's like 1.2 million subscribers.

And I got like 1.6 million on TikTok. TikTok seems to be less personal and more of a battleground, it feels like. But there are some really amazing people I've been able to connect with. So many amazing. Yeah. And I hear you on that. It's I feel like lately TikTok has turned into just this crazed cesspool of like who can expose who and who can hurt people and really like.

you people need to just love, you know, love always wins. And I just feel like, you know, it's, um, TikTok can be very, you know, dangerous, but at the same time, it's so beneficial because, you know, I got to meet you through TikTok and like, you know, we've developed our friendship. I got to meet your hot wife over here. So, you know, I'm super excited about our friendship, but are you ready to dive into good old Wade Wilson? Yeah.

Man, if Wade runs out of haters, my face is on a t-shirt and my mama and my wife are crying. I'm always ready. But before I say that, you said love always wins. I got love wins tattooed on my knuckles. Oh, yeah.

Which is, you know, a profound statement for my life. And also ironic when somebody sees it right before they get catch a cold one for doing something wrong. Yeah, I love that. I love that you're a lover and a fighter because I like to pride myself on being that too. Love is protecting the people that you love. And I don't just believe in protecting the people that I love. I believe in protecting the vulnerable, protecting the innocent, protecting those who can't protect themselves.

I didn't get that when I was six years old. So now I like to do anything I can to be that for other people. I hate that that happened to you. I text you that, you know, and I just wouldn't... I didn't know that about you until you had texted that to me. And it just hurt my heart because, you know, in lieu of the song that just dropped that Jay had, like, you know, like... And then you tell me that. I was just like, oh, my God. Like, this... You don't realize...

How many people have, like, why are we not talking more about this? The fact that 17 million people in three days consumed this song, like, that's crazy and could resonate with it, you know, like...

It's just really, um, that's a pan. That's an epidemic that we need to not a pandemic. That's an epidemic that we need to really start talking about a lot more. I feel like it's just so in the dark and nobody wants to touch on it because it's like, Oh, you're not supposed to talk about what happened to you and don't talk about that kind of trauma. But it's like, that's half, half these children that are growing up becoming criminals because I was one of them too. Um,

Something happened in their childhood that needs to be talked about. And yeah, I'm sorry that that happened to you and you never deserved that. But look at the man that you are today, you know? Well, thank you. And talking about it is a huge part of the healing process. People need to, it needs to be destigmatized, especially for men. That's why I started talking about it when I was doing public speaking and recovery in Florida. And, you know, there's literally never been a time that I've told my story that I've excluded that.

And there's never been a time that I haven't had people come up to me afterwards and say, like, I've never been able to admit to anyone else what happened to me when I was a kid. But seeing you do that, like...

I want to tell you. And so I'll take the time with them and sit down and listen. And it's always more than one person in a room full of people. Yeah. And, you know, especially for men, it's hard to talk about, but talking about it is what helps you heal and helps you get past it. And until you do that, you're carrying a piece of that person that did that to you with you.

Being able to let go of that situation and cast that person out of you is so important for your self-healing. That's where I found self-love. Yeah. No, that's, and that's a heavy cross to bear, man, to have to hold that in and not be able to speak about it. Just that, that creates so much unresolved anger in your soul. And then that unresolved anger in return comes out in other ways. And yeah,

If anything like that has ever happened to you, please speak up about it because you're not alone. And people like me and JD, JD and I have been through the same scenario and there's thousands of other people that are with you. And sucks that we're in that club together, but it's like, you know what, at least we can make it a family.

Zane is joining us on the couch and Brandon is here. What's up you guys? How are you? Thank you for joining us. No, thank you. This was a very interesting experience, especially since I've never been to Nashville before. Oh, I love it. I love that you guys were willing to come here and sit on this couch and you know, like I've,

I've been talking with JD for the past two hours about, you know, the whole entire situation that has happened, the case and all that stuff. And, um, you know, I just think it's so important that the people get to see your faces. And it's like my husband said downstairs, it's like that dude's going to be locked in a cell and he's going to be forgotten about. And what we can do to make sure that the person that we can make sure that isn't forgotten is Diane Ruiz and, um,

christine melton so and that's what that's what we want to do here uh today is just to honor your mom brandon would like to talk to you or something like that and i was like yes connect us i would love to speak with him because i was just like i was at this point i had fucking got myself and you know stuck my foot in my mouth and got myself in a world of shit and i was just like how can i fix this because i'm the type of person if i do something wrong i want to write it and that's just what

how it's going to go. And I will go to the fucking ends of the earth until I write it. Yeah. And then I do want to go back to where we first started and you called it a mistake. I wouldn't call it a mistake at all if it led us to this point now because it's always a blessing. I mean, there's certain ways that some situations have to be brought up. And if that was to be brought up like that, I wouldn't call it a mistake at all. You know what I mean? No.

I appreciate you so much. I can say that deeply down. But also, I don't want you to feel bad because at the time, I'm obviously I'm very avid on TikTok and it was very popular at the time. And I, you know, I scroll and stuff like that. And what you said wasn't wasn't even bad compared to other things I've seen. It definitely does not cross other lines, you know. Can you guys take me back to when this first happened and like,

you know, the events that happened after. You want me to go first or you? For me, I was actually in class and it was a very interesting, like, situation because I had no clue. Like, I had absolutely no clue that she even went missing. How old were you? I was 14 in my freshman year of high school. And how old were you, Brandon? I mean, I want to say I was 24, almost 25, I would say. Okay. So... Yeah, and at the time, we...

We were poor, so we didn't really have like Wi-Fi and stuff like that. And Brandon didn't have cell service. So he was like contacting me through Snapchat. And I was basically like, leave me alone. I'm in the middle of class. What are you doing? Like, you're at home. It can't be that important. Right. And he was like, no, I need Scott's number, which is my mom's ex-boyfriend or boyfriend at the time.

Were you guys close with your mom at this time? Were you guys like in constant contact with her? What was the relationship like? Yeah, we had dinner with her like that night before. Brandon cooked dinner and we ate with her that night before. And that was literally my best friend in life. My number one best friend. During this time, did you guys feel like something was off or were you guys just thinking that maybe she was like...

went to go take a mental health day or something. I was trying to think on the positive side. And I was just thinking maybe she just wanted to take a mental health day or she went somewhere and I guess it was like some midlife crisis. But I know mom's, well, I didn't know that, but I was hoping for her to come back, obviously, because you have us all worried though. And then when we found out about the true situation is, was...

Very bad, though, I guess. Can you guys take me to that moment when you found out what had happened? Exactly when that happened is when we found out actually Zayn was at school. They...

completely like for me, I'm a complete workaholic. So I was I can tell I was I was 14. And in my head, I was like, she's coming back. Like dog, there's nothing wrong. Um, I was probably just like blocking it out because I I only skipped one day of school like the day she went missing. I skipped the next day went with them. And then I was like, I gotta go back to school. Like I can't just like disappear, obviously, because high school is so important.

And now you're like that with college. Yeah, basically. So this is a character trait, babe, okay? Yeah, but I just went back to school like nothing happened. Because a lot of my friends, since it was popular on the news and stuff like that, and nobody was really telling me anything. I was just like, dog, this is fine. She's going to come back. I don't know. Maybe she just had a little breakdown. It's okay. It's normal. She's a person. Whatever. Whatever.

I go along with my school day. I'm still going to school and marching band practice. I'm doing everything. And then I remember it was like on a Thursday and I'm still at practice and I start getting spam texts from my friends specifically. And like half of the people are going, I'm so sorry, Zane, like that should have never happened. I'm like, what are y'all talking about? Like she went missing three days ago. Like,

I don't know, to me it was like, "Oh, it's fine. She's gonna turn up." It was like denial almost. Yeah, basically. And then I remember my brother pulled up to pick me up from marching band and then he's with my sister-in-law's baby mama. She's driving, I go in the backseat, and then he comes to sit in the backseat with me. And I just kind of freeze. I can actually add on. That's actually the day that I got into the back of your car.

And then I seen you freeze and then that's when you start wondering. And then I don't think I told you until we almost got to the house or when we got to the house. No. You told me the moment we started driving. It was the moment that Sophie started driving. Yeah. That's the same day that after we got to the house and we both went and then we both had went into your room and cuddled and cried together. Hi, babies. Welcome back to another episode of Don Blonde. My girl, Kristen Cavallari is in the house, baby.

I'm so excited to be here. Dude, I am so stoked to have you here. This has been a long time coming. I know. We've been talking about this for, I mean, months. Yeah. Months. Maybe it might even be a year. That's what I was going to say. A year-ish? It might be. Yeah. So yay. I'm so happy it's finally happening. Dude, you are an icon in your own right, dude. You have been around forever. And I don't think, like, I don't feel like the new TikTok people really know, like, your whole lore. I love you.

You have like a lore to you. And it's like, people are just like, oh, Kristen to Cavalieri just came on the scene. I've seen comments like that. And I'm like, and they're like, who is she? And I'm like, how do you guys not know? I mean, I've always said, I feel like the first, the first half of my life was just like,

Thing after thing, just like it was just a lot. And now I'm hoping that I'm setting the second half of my life up to just be fucking chill. Just like relax and be able to just enjoy my life. Do you think all that trauma that you had was why you were so fierce on sex?

Laguna Beach and the hills. I think it definitely played a role. And I think always being the new girl and moving around constantly, I was able to be put in any situation and it was like sink or swim. And I figured out how to survive, you know, and how to make the most of it. So I think I naturally sort of had this tough exterior, this like take no shit attitude, but I also was able to figure out any situation you could put me in. So I think the combination, yeah, is what made me this like, you know, fucking firecrackers.

I love that though. And that's what you were known for. And that's literally why people fell in love with you because you know, back then we didn't have a lot of like strong personalities like that on TV. Well, I got a lot of hate for it at the time. And now it's interesting because people are like, wait a minute. Maybe she wasn't the villain. Yeah. Fuck. 20 years later, I'll take it. Yeah. I, you know, and I'm, I don't want to talk shit about her, but it, Lauren always rubbed me the wrong way. And I was just like, I don't

Like it just seems a little too manufactured. Like it just didn't seem real to me, but you always came across as authentic. Thank you. Do you feel like because you were always the, you know, fierce one and the one to speak up and the one to fight back, do you feel like people didn't really get a sense of who you really were because of that? A hundred percent. And I think that was the thing Laguna beach showed one side of my personality. And I mean, you know, we're all, we have so many different sides to our personality. And so, um,

you know, people, cause I do have a very soft side too. And of course, as I've gotten older and became a mom and everything, I've really honed in on that. But even back then, I mean, I did as well. And I still have that, that, you know, take no shit side to me. But, um, when that's the only thing they're showing, yes. I mean, you can't really get to know someone. And it's interesting because Steven and I actually did a back to the beach podcast. It was a rewatch podcast and we went back and it was the first time I had seen it. And since it aired, it's

And at the time I remember being like MTV fucked with me so hard and I thought it was unfair. And then going back and rewatching it again,

And talking to everybody, I was like, oh no, they fucked with everyone. Like they did what they did to me. They did to every single cast member, even, you know, Lauren, they only showed one side of her personality to Steven, the same thing. And so I, I walked away from that being like, it's just, it was what it was. And I was so mad about it for so long, but it was a nice way to kind of like wrap that up and be like, it wasn't just me. I wasn't the victim in that situation. Like it happened to us all. That's, that's actually a really cool perspective though, because most people would

internalize that and be like, I was picked on and victimized themselves. And you were like, no, actually they did it to everybody. So you guys didn't have any control of what was getting put out there. Nothing. Oh, nothing. I feel like reality TV back in the day did that to everybody. Like you signed your life and rights away as a human. And it,

What they wanted to present you as was what you were going to be known as. Yep. I know. Because, you know, it was one of the first reality shows. So we didn't know what we were signing up for. Right. And, you know, even things like they would have us just record wild lines, just lines, and they could splice them in wherever they wanted. Mm-hmm.

And so in a sense, I mean, we kind of had an idea of what they were doing because we're like, well, obviously I didn't say this, but you're having me say it on into a microphone. So you're clearly going to use it somewhere. So we knew that they were manipulating it to a degree. But until we actually saw it, we had no idea what was going on. And you guys were kids. I was 17. Did you guys as parents have any say so in any of that?

Yeah, our parents had to sign off on it. My mom had a lot of reservations, but I wasn't living with her at the time, so it kind of didn't matter. My dad was on board with it. Oh, shit. I know. You know what? Look at where you are now. No, it's all good. It's all good. Yeah, I'm happy my mom didn't stop it. But it was hard to deal with at that age just because it's hard enough being a teenager, you know, and then having your lives being manipulated when it's your real boyfriend, your real friend, it just gets really...

just really messy, quite honestly. So was it, how real was it though? Because you know, reality TV back then wasn't quite real. Didn't they give you guys plots and like, or was it genuine? Well, so Laguna beach was more put us in situations and then kind of see what happens knowing that a particular situation is going to probably press my buttons or, you know, this is not the group of people I would normally hang out with kind of a thing. Um,

let's have Kristen's boyfriend go up to this other girl's house, even though they're dating. And so situations that they know is going to piss us off. Right. But I don't think any show is 100% real. I think it's impossible to have a show.

Even if you have cameras on you 24/7, like Jersey Shore, for example, they still have to edit it down into a 42 episode or whatever it is. - Yeah, 30 minute episodes for-- - Right, and so there's no way that something can be 100% real. There's no way to capture. - We just got some pictures from my best friend who passed away. Her sister sent me a bunch of pictures of us and there's one of me in there that's like methed out. Girl, where are my eyebrows? - I know, well I was the same.

same way. I had no eyebrows. I fucked them up forever now. I had to see, no, your eyebrows look fucking good. Mine are too, but yours like, like you have hair. I can't even fucking grow a fucking eyebrow back. Okay. You know what I'm going to tell you? Castor oil. Do you ever put castor oil on them? I tried it on my belly button and it made me feel weird. I can't do it. It made me feel weird. So I get scared now. I'm so sensitive. And it works for you. Do you

Do you love that? And I put it on my face too. I tried to do the castor oil thing because I wanted to be like the castor oil girlies too. And it just made me, I woke up the next day. I'm such a sensitive like girly now because of all the fucking shit I did in my past. So like now I can't, it's like I used to fucking snort eight balls and now I can't even use castor oil. Right? Yeah. It's fucked up. It is fucked up. No, it's fucking, it's bullshit, dude. You meet Jay.

Take me on that journey with you guys' relationship. So Jay, a year prior, I got a call from my publicist and he said that Jay Cutler wanted to fly me to Chicago and take me on a date. And I didn't know who Jay was. So I Googled him and I was like, I mean, I don't know.

like whatever I don't know so I didn't know who Jay was till he was on your show I love you I knew who you were I didn't know who Jay was yeah so I said no so okay fine so a year later I was visiting my mom who happened to still live there and I was going to a Bears preseason game with my cousin who was Bears obsessed I totally forgot Jay even asked me out my mom brought it up and my cousin was like what the fuck you're such an idiot Jay's the man you got to go out with him so I

So I ended up getting us family passes to meet Jay after the game thinking it was going to make my cousin's life. I would probably never talk to this guy ever again. And he walked in and I was like, oh, shit, he's cuter than I thought he was going to be. And when he asked you out, how did he ask you out? Well, it was through my publicist. OK, so it was never we never had any interaction. So he walked in. He was really cute. He was very smart because he kind of like won my mom over. I was talking to my mom the whole time.

He drove us to our car and then he texted me immediately and he was like, something about like, well, you got to come back or something. And then I think I came back like a week later and then it was like,

Like that was it. We moved really fast. I love relationships like that though. Yeah. You know, granted, you know, you guys have gone your separate ways, but I still feel like a moment in time, that moment in time was what you needed. And it was like magical. Yeah. And he was, he was exactly what I was looking for at the time. And again, I mean, I was 23, I think, um,

I was a baby, you know, like hindsight is 2020. I don't regret a damn thing though. I mean, there's so much good that came out of our relationship and ultimately not only did I get my kids and it got me out to Franklin, Tennessee and you know, all these great things, but it forced me to figure out my shit and grow up and do the work that I needed to do. And so I'm really thankful for that as well. What do you, what would you say was kind of, I don't want to use the word downfall cause that's heavy, but what, what do you think?

was part of the reason for the relationship unraveling? Um, so, uh, Jay and I always had a tough relationship even from the very beginning. And I think, um, I'm really careful about what I say, obviously, because we have three kids together, but I think we can always cut things out. Yeah. Um,

I just, I haven't talked about him in so many years. I've like, I made that vow. I was like, I'm done talking about it, but I'm happy to talk about it. It's just, I'm trying to think about like the best way to say it because, you know, I think, um, it, things were just never good. And, um,

We tried really hard. I will say like we really did everything that we could and ultimately I had to make a decision of taking care of myself and putting myself first and Especially as a mom and having these three little kids. I really wanted my kids to see me happy and see that I was making myself a priority and taking care of myself and

especially now having a daughter too. I think that's so important. It is so important because I feel like when parents stay together and they're miserable, that causes more fucking trauma for the kids. 1000%. Then just seeing healthy co-parenting. Yeah. Yeah. Because what you're teaching your kids then is a stay in something because you're fucking miserable. Yeah. And B, they have no idea now what a healthy relationship looks like. And it just, it's,

if you can't be your best self, that obviously trickles down to your kids and you take out your hurt and your sadness on your kids. It's just a, such a negative toxic environment. Yes. And you know, as soon as I got out of my marriage, um, I remember even my mom saying to me like, shit, I had no idea how bad it was, but like,

I was a shell of who I was and immediately I got my spark back. And I love that for you. Yeah. When you say that it was bad, was it just polar opposites or was it arguing? Like what was it that was so bad? It was just, it was toxic, you know? And I think because I hadn't done the work with on myself and you were a baby too. I was a fucking baby. I didn't know any better. How old was he when you guys got together? He was, um,

I think he was 27 or 28. So you guys were both young. We were both young. That's young love. I feel like the first love or the first young love like that where you get married or something like that is toxic. You guys don't know how to fucking navigate life. I know how I was a fucking 23-year-old.

I'm sorry to anybody whose paths had to cross with mine in that era of my life because I was just a shit show. Like you shouldn't be allowed to get married before age 30, quite honestly. Literally. I agree. You shouldn't be allowed to. I agree. You don't know who the fuck you are at that age. Today, my girl Erica Mena is in the house, baby. Oh.

Looking fly as ever too. Thank you, babe. I was like, I'm seeing the baddest. I got to come correct. And I don't do interviews. Yeah. I hate them because they end up being just clickbait and people kind of, you know, yeah, I don't know. They've never,

been like my friend I feel like I've noticed you do a lot of interviews with men they're never going to give you a chance you know what it is when I first started in the very beginning I had to put myself out there I was just doing like rad TV like these weird little outlets in the beginning that social media wasn't that big but I wanted people to kind of like

dive into me and it never turned out that way. So over the years I was just like, I'm just not going to do. And plus I'm on reality TV. So it's like, what can I really say in an interview that you guys kind of don't see edited anyway on TV? So, but yeah, I don't do interviews, but this one I felt like I had to. First of all, I was such a big

Like, your whole journey. Like, I know what's up with you. I appreciate it. I feel like we have a lot in common, too. You're my buddy. Yeah. We talk. Like, we could go into it. But, yeah, like, you definitely... Like, we have, you know, that loss of a companion, you know, kind of...

story that we can compare and just I just love how you're just such a ride or die you kind of own up to who you were what you were and kind of like this is who I am now and you just kind of taking people on your journey and now they have no choice but to fucking respect you for it and I feel like it's so similar to like me I kind of was that

You deserve your flowers. And that's what I was telling you when you first, and thank you for that. I appreciate it. Thank you for seeing me for who I am now and what I've been through and where I'm at. I really appreciate that. And that means the world to me. But you also deserve your flowers because girl,

to be as relevant as you are in this world for as long as you have been. And you've literally clawed your way up and we're going to get into your story because I'm sure a lot of people who listen to my podcast might not know your backstory and stuff like that. Which is really why I wanted to do this more than ever. Yeah. New audience, new, fresh mind.

like people get to tap in and then they can kind of do their homework on everything that comes with me after yeah but yeah i've kind of been through a lot girl just out there for a long time you have literally you've been a video vixen you've been a reality tv star now you're dabbling in music and becoming an actress and it's like it's just so inspiring to see somebody who's came from where you've come from also and

pretty much we're like, you know what? I'm a force to be reckoned with deal with it. And I love that about you. That's always been your attitude. You don't hide who you are. I love that you wear your heart on your sleeve. I just feel like you're just human. And if the world doesn't love you, they secretly fucking want to be you. So moving on from King, we're going to get into the subject that everybody wants to talk about and everybody wants to hear from you on because you haven't spoken about this at all.

I've been speaking about it just because of Love & Hip Hop. Right. But most recently, there was... The most recent events. Yeah, there was just something that was put out there for monetization and clout and, you know, for a weird agenda of...

a certain individual who's now a youtuber yeah all of a sudden a youtuber we were we were researching last night and i was just like this is fucking weird but to each their own i'm never gonna knock anybody's hustle midlife crisis at 43 years old you wake up one day and wanting to be a youtuber girl let me break out my glasses because i've got so many notes on this um so for those of you

you who don't know, you actually married Safari. Yes, you married Safari, who is Nicki Minaj's ex. That's pretty much what people know him for, is being Nicki Minaj's ex. You can see her whole demeanor change talking about this man. Take me on the courtship, because you said somewhere that he...

Courted you for about three years? Oh my God. That's crazy. I didn't want him. Right. My intuition knew what was up. Right. I did not want him. I never found him attractive in that way. And it's funny because it wasn't until I actually started dating him that I even got like the real...

of like his relationship with Nikki. Um, so when he started to kind of come after me, I knew he was her ex, but I didn't know the real details of it. Um, coming from the terror squad angle of my life, I always was a Remy fan and stuff like that. And don't get me wrong. Like who doesn't sing a Nicki Minaj song, but I was never like tapped in. Like, cause you remember she, she,

From Brooklyn. I'm from the Bronx. So you kind of growing up in New York, you side and more gravitate to the rapper that's from your barrel. Right. And not everybody has to like. Well, it's not even that. It was just...

I was with Raul. So, Remy was my, my go-to. Right. You know, like that was who I knew. That's who I sang. And I do know that Nikki for years had like these bomb ass mixtapes that even friends of mine were like,

dive into a no every word so I knew of her I just was never like really super familiar with her music because of the world that I was kind of in right um so yeah I didn't know the details of their relationship or that you know whatever until we kind of but anyway I so you guys met on the set how you say that I wasn't put onto game of the kind of individual that was all I knew was that

He just gave me corny. He gave me player. He gave me suspect, you know, like it wasn't the fur coats that threw you off. You know what? I don't even think he had the fur coats when, when I kind of met him and he was kind of going at me. He had the, the fake Ruby gold necklaces and,

And I was engaged to Bow Wow the first time I ever came past with this individual. So that's how far back. We were at this strip club and they were actually filming for like this reality show at the time. And I had went to be in support of my friend Sia that was a part of it. Anywho, he was dating an associate that I knew at the time. She comes in with him.

And he, she introduces me to him and he literally was like, you're Erica Mena. Damn. You're so beautiful in person. Wow. Why? Mind you, he's with this other woman. Just disrespectful from the gate. So that to me was like my first impression of him. Like you are just disrespectful. You're thirsty. You're just not like, not that type of guy. Yeah. Anywho. Um, that was my first intro to him. And, um,

I, from that day, he, for like three years, this man just, when I tell you, did everything in his power until finally my publicist, he hired purposely because he knew she was my publicist. And I didn't find this out until years later, but he would offer her money just to kind of, you know, get to me. So yeah, I was tracked down and he was persistent.

And he did. You had had previous relationships on like love and hip hop and stuff like that. Were you burned from like going through the situation with sin, going through the situation with rich dollars? Was it because you didn't want to have another relationship on camera in that franchise? He wasn't even on love and hip hop. Oh, okay. When he started kind of. Okay. Okay. Gotcha. He wasn't even a part of it. Wow. Okay. Yeah. So yeah, this started like when I met him, he was definitely not on it. Okay. Yeah.

Was it you that brought him in on it? Was it what? Was it you that brought him in? No, I think at one point he just got, you know, tight on money and decided to kind of like go after Nikki baby and court her so he can get on it is what happened.

Yeah, there's a motive for his everything. I stopped watching Love & Hip Hop after you and Rich Dollaz broke up. Really? Yeah, I was just like, I don't know. Me and Rich had a good run, I will say that. I thought you guys were so cute. I would say this. He believed in me

But he was one of those guys that he was easily influenced. Like anybody could tell him anything. Yeah. So at one point people were like telling him like, she's just using you, blah, blah, blah. Mind you, it's like, I don't have to use you. I'm talented. Like you're a manager. If you're smart enough, we're co-stars. What the fuck is in front of you? And you would,

You know, not think relationship and think fucking business. And I still to this day tell them that all the time. I'm like, had you not believe what the fuck people were trying to make you believe, whether it was production or like outside people. Yeah. Me and you probably could have made a killing together in the business because.

Like one thing Rich at one point had was good tactics on how to like he helped, you know, spiral Cassie's, you know, career. And he's, you know, responsible for a lot of other people. And he was even managing Olivia at one point. But he just believed whatever the fuck people told him. And it started to put a bad taste in his mouth about me. The mother got involved and, you know, it was just weird. It was like, you know, everyone wanted me to be this person.

person that was using him and it's like um I don't have to use you I'm I'm that I'm fucking talented whether you see it or not like this bitch got something going here like I know but I feel like you guys genuinely had love for each other like there was a moment but at the same time he just did a lot of shiesty shit for storylines

To hurt me. And like, you know, like... That's fucked up. Like, even with him teaming up with Sin. It was like, he despised that girl. And then all of a sudden, to bring me down, they both... When me and her were on the outs, it was like, they got together. Didn't Nicki Minaj say that he was paying for hookers with her credit cards? Before we get into that, can I just... Because we are talking on the subject of her. I owe her the biggest apology ever. I owe her an apology because...

like a lot of us women tend to do when we don't know any better, especially when we're hard, deep, wrapped, warped into the love bombing phase is the red flag that us women tend to ignore when a man sits there and talks to you about his ex and all the things he did to him. And it's funny how life comes full circle because the same thing he did to her

He's doing to me years later. I remember him pouring his heart out to me about all the stuff she did to him, showing me videos of her reacting. And at the time, you're in a love bomb. I didn't think to ask, well, what did you do to her?

Right. You're just showing me all this stuff that he she's doing. She's how she's reacting. Right. Why does this man always have videos of these women? Exactly. And now, mind you, this is a video. He was at one point going around. I found out later on he was going around the industry showing to like around the time he was trying to bring her down when he was lying to people saying that he wrote for her, like literally saying whatever he could to like kind of ruin her career. That's terrible. And take her credibility for her.

her real hard earned work. And what is the video of? She was chasing him. And I won't get into too detail because I don't feel like, you know, yeah. Being that I'm in her shoes now, I feel like she's owed the respect to like, I don't, but come to find out he had broke the laptop that had her pink Friday album on it on purpose. And then videoed her reaction. And of course she went fuck off. Yeah. He's recording it.

Hmm. So rewind, fast forward to me being with him. I'm down to the mother partaking and agreeing in these conversations. Oh my God, she's the devil. She did all this stuff. So anyway, I owe this woman an apology because I sat there and allowed him to talk to her about, talk about her to me. And I,

From that came me saying things and like defending and vouching for him and speaking up on her in a way that was tacky. Because at the end of the day, I didn't know the truth, especially not the truth that I know now. And we do that. A lot of women do that. They get caught up with a man and he's so good to you that you allow him to gossip.

to you about his ex. You get manipulated. Yeah. And they, and they never tell you what they did. They just tell you what they did and how crazy she is. And she did this and she did that. That's called reactive. I owe her such an apology because it's so crazy how life, it's not crazy. It's just life, but it comes full circle. It tables always turn. Everything she has ever said about him is true. Everything that she had went through with him. I'm going through it worse. You know,

Um, like you said, she definitely aired him out for paying prostitutes with her credit card. Yeah. Um, I think, well, first of all, he cheated on me going to a parlor and how I found out, but,

It's completely embarrassing. How did you find out? But before you go into that, I just want to say, I think that is so big of you to apologize to Nikki like that, especially publicly. Yeah, I do. And I feel like a lot of other people, I feel like anyone who ever sided with him during that time that they broke up, because he was really...

Like he taunted her to this not too long ago before he came at me for the YouTube. He taunted her by going to her concert. Can you pull that up for us? Can you put Safari at Nicki Minaj concert? Like I think I thought this was the weirdest thing I've ever seen. It was weird because you're saying that you're going there to make because you're proud of her. So why didn't you sit in a box?

Yeah. Calm, cool, collective. Watch the show like a normal person. No, he went there with vlogging everything. Yeah. And then had the nerve to stand, I think, in the middle of the stairs so everybody could see he was there. And somebody he went there to make a shit show fucking appearance. He went there to get a headline, a headline and to provoke her knowing she's moved on. She's married. She has a family. Yeah.

Every chance you get to talk about her, you do. It has not stopped since you guys have broken up. And he does it every time for clout and attention. Him going to this concert was for one reason and one reason only. He wanted her to react in some way. Right. We're going to pull up the clip right now so that you guys can see it. Sorry, we have an ad. No, you're good. Light. Here it is.

You're not even in a seat. It looks like he's in the bleachers. Where is he sitting? You could definitely tell he was not a guest at this concert. And then you have eight security because you know you're not supposed to be there. Right. It's weird. It's definitely, this was weird behavior. And this is the thing. This is what I don't understand about people. It's like, okay, so first it was her that he taunted for, I guess, subscribers and stuff.

attention for his YouTube now that he's a newfound YouTuber. Right. He got the social media viral conversation that he wanted, but it wasn't enough traffic for his YouTube. So now all of a sudden he wants to speak up on why he's being a deadbeat. He was using this Miami girl character for a storyline, which he confessed he only did because he wanted to prove to me that he didn't need me to be on Love & Hip Hop.

So anyway, he decides to kind of fake like this Miami girl character that's on Miami, Love & Hip Hop Miami. And at that time, he was about six months behind purposely in paying child support. Now, mind you, I'm still on Love & Hip Hop at this point, but I have the kids. He's on Love & Hip Hop in Miami, and he's only 30 minutes away.

He wasn't using his weekly parenting time. And he was months, at least at this time, he was like six months behind on paying child support. Anywho, I'm thugging it. I'm flying with the kids to him from Miami to Atlanta to film and, you know, kind of do my, what I'm contractually binded to do. Right. Next you know, it goes viral. He's buying this chick's kids Rolexes.

He's literally deliberately buying another man's children Rolexes and has this whole drawn. They have this whole drawn out birthday party for these kids. Right. Mind you, this man is six months right behind on child support. Hasn't seen the kids. Right.

Is indulging in this whole storyline that he even admitted he was just doing so that he can prove that he didn't need me to be on Love & Hip Hop in general. He also said that they've never even had sex, right? Girl, that whole... I don't know who's worse, him or her, when it comes to that whole scenario. She's just as desperate as he is. Because I'd be damned if a man who doesn't even have real intentions for me is going to be using my kids as some...

I don't even know what you call it, but it's sick on her part. Yeah. Like pawns. Like as a mom, you're, you're allowing your kids first birthday to be a staged scenario so that it could look like this man is about you when really in reality isn't attracted to you. You know what I'm saying? Like anyway, so, um, it goes viral. Of course I'm going to say something.

You haven't seen your kids and how much, and you're purposely not paying your child support on time to spite me, to financially, you know,

Be an asshole is what you're trying to do. Right. So things like that, he does to trigger me. Right. I'm just saying, I don't understand how people can't see that he's poking the bear. And even when I was pregnant, he was dating the to-me version of me, right? For Valentine's Day, he fills up this girl's small little apartment with flowers, the same thing he used to do with me. Had...

Didn't bring pampers. Like literally when, when I filed for divorce, buying pampers, buying clothes, none of this was being done. So when you know your kid's father financially can buy extravagant gifts for these random women after you just had two of his kids back to back and he doesn't even drop off a box of pampers, who in their right mind is not going to put that on child support?

That's the reason why Safari is on child support. Because when I filed for divorce, he never once thought for a second, let me drop off Pampers. Let me see if the kids need clothes. Let me, what do the kids need in general? Never, never asked what these kids needed. So I knew if it was like this already, it was going to get worse. And it did.

So therefore, when it was time to finalize our divorce, I made it mandatory that child support was implemented. My first kid father wasn't on child support, but he also did what the fuck he had to do. But which is not a bad thing. That's why child support is implemented in the court system. Yeah, but at the same time, if this man, fuck if we're together or not.

These kids are your kids. Right. If he was riding for these kids the way he rides for whatever woman he's fucking on for the moment, we would be so good. Because regardless to what you... There are baby mamas out there that don't have to talk shit or say anything about their baby daddies. Why?

Because they do what the fuck they have to do. There are baby mamas that live a good life of not having to talk ill on their baby daddies whatsoever because these men are doing what they have to do. Not all, but a lot of them do. I don't consider you talking ill. You're telling the truth.

So are you not allowed to speak your truth in order to save his reputation? And that's what it's been. And that's why so like a crock of shit how everyone's like, oh, he's been quiet for so long. He's been quiet for so long because he cannot deny anything I have said about him.

Up until him randomly now having this new YouTuber found urge where he can edit shit that he started and stirred up. You know what I'm saying? And let's talk about these videos. Can we bring up these videos, Mimi, that we have of Erica climbing over the fence? That's my girl. Yeah.

Climbing over the fence. And then also like trying to get into his house. And then the only thing I do have didn't agree with in here. And I understand that this is where your rage is coming from is the babies are seeing all of this. Yeah. That one. Yes. So. OK, so let's break this down. Yeah.

What's happening in this clip right here? Okay. So pause, wait, pause. Cause I'm gonna get to that. Yeah. Um, keep that there. Cause I want to show you, I want to tell you this goal, this goes along with the, um, climbing the fence. So anyway, that first initial video, um, I had went to his house to pick up the kids. I had just came back from a work trip.

came to pick up the kids. Prior to getting there, he was telling me how he finally had some money for me. So at one of the moments of him trying to get back with me, he came up with this idea of putting the kids in some type of schooling daycare, right? So that we could have more time together to fix things and build on us without the kids being around.

I fell for it. So I did my homework and I ended up finding a Montessori school. Me and him went to the Montessori school, checked it out together. The lady told us how much it cost. He agreed to take on that expense. Come time to pay the school, Safari had the nerve to tell me, I pay child support, take it out of that. So here I am now left with this newfound expense that I wasn't prepared, prepared to take on, but I

This is the route you want to go? You fucking cheap motherfucker. No problem. Oh, you pay for it in child support? Mind you, let me not even give you the breakdown of that. But anyway, cool. No, please do. Spare us no detail, please. So anyway, I've been taking on this new expense of the kids going to this Montessori school on my own after he told me he would take this on. Now, he did this because this is around the time, like after when it was time for him to pay up, I wasn't trying to fuck on him.

So anytime I'm not trying to fuck on him, anything he said he was going to do, he ain't doing. Him seeing the kids is not even a question. Like if I'm not trying to fuck on him or ignore what he did and kind of, you know, go with the flow and just act like we're getting back together, that's always his MO. He doesn't, he won't, he won't do anything extra outside of child support and he's damn sure not picking up these kids. That's just what it's been from, from the jump.

So anyway, I get to the house and he's telling me, I got a surprise for you. And I'm like, what is it? And he tells me he has the money for the school, for the school. I get there. I did take a nap, right? I get, cause I live like 30, 40 minutes away. Mind you, just like I said, I just landed. I'm exhausted. So I take a little nap. I get up and next thing you know, he tells me how he wants to talk. I'm like, okay, let's talk.

He found out that I had a guy that I was hanging out with when I was on my work trip. So his initial was like, oh, so this is what we're doing? Like, I'm over here with the kids and I'm trying to make things better. And I'm just like, the call is coming from inside the house, Safari. We're not willing to get there.

So anyway, I'm like, how does it feel? I'm like, leave me alone. So anyway, it's he starts to get in his feelings and then he goes, you know what? Why don't you ask him to give you the money? I was going to give you the money that started the argument. And then from there, him saying other nasty shit. So that initial argument.

on sadly whatever was and they just happened to be recording at this moment well he has cameras in his house okay what are the coincidence that now he wants to fuck with me and provoke me while i'm at his house right so he starts to you know say how he's not paying for it and at that point i'm not gonna lie i was set off because i'm carrying this expense

That I did not inquire. Now, mind you, this was that was this year. That was in May. The first one where shit is going down. That was in May. Right. OK. Got fired from Love and Hip Hop because he started a fabricated, nasty story and was gossiping to me about another cast member. Me and that cast member got into it. I said something that, you know, she she went low. I went to hell.

And for that, I lost my job. So he is the reason, the biggest reason why I lost my job. But anyway, this is that, this is that year. This is this year. You're also carrying years of just hurt. Yeah. But my whole thing is, you know, I just lost my job. Yeah. One of my main incomes. You, you,

owe me this money because you're the one that wanted to put them into this facility. Right. You literally are in your feelings every time I don't want to fuck on you. So you refuse to give me the money that you said you would pay for these kids. So now I'm taking on an expense that I did not originally, I wasn't prepared for. And I just lost my job because of you. Now here I am

At the house to pick up the kids, you get when I'm talking to someone or I was with someone the night before. Now you're saying you're not giving me the money you owe me. Right.

I'm off. Yeah. I am ticked off. So I'm telling him, I'm like, explain to me what's going, like, explain to me why you're not going to give me this money. You're the reason why. So I want answers. He's Mr. Not confrontation, confrontation. He knew telling me that he wasn't going to give me that money was going to set me off. He knew that. And then for the, and it did. So what did he do? He was going to call the cops on me. Hmm.

So what you see there is me. First of all, I'm pissed off. You owe me that money. You owe me that money. Like a couple, like a good 10 bands that you owe me. Okay. He still owes me that money to this day. But anyway, and it's even more now because it's been that long.

So you tell me you're going to pay me this money. Mind you, this man has no problem buying himself jewelry. This man has no problem buying random women that he's sleeping with jewelry. He just bought Selena Pal jewelry. Did he? On his YouTube. I just saw, I mean, I didn't watch the video because I wasn't giving him the views, but that's the title of his. She said, let me not, let me,

I don't even care. I mean, at this point I'm so used to it. Yeah. Like just a couple of months ago, he gifted the Miami girl a necklace. And I only seen that because that was viral. Right. You know what I'm saying? It's like, it's sick. It's like, so this particular video, um,

Like I said, he taunted me with this money, then says he's not going to pay for it. Then I'm asking him to explain to him, explain to me why he starts to, you know, call the cops. I'm just over it. And yes, that was completely wrong of me. And I take accountability for that. And that's the first and only time that has ever happened in front of my kids, which is why my kids literally followed me out.

They're not scared of me. They've never seen me ever act like that in front of them ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever. It's never been that way. And how he's trying to make it seem like this happened. Never. You can, my kids are proof.

That they have never been around that. And then in any kind of way, right. You know, did I lose my shit? Absolutely. Because enough is enough. You're literally you. You're the reason why I lost my job. And here you are owing me all this money for something you did.

You inquired about and you like this was your idea to put them into the school. You said you were going to pay for it. And because I'm not fucking on you the way and going about things the way you want it to be. Now you don't want to pay what you said you were going to pay. Right. So it set me the fuck off. And then him having the nerve. Now you want to call the cops on me.

You want to call the cops on me? And I have a video where I'm filming him myself. So what you see there is I'm not trying to, I'm not putting my hands up. I'm trying to get the phone from him so I can speak to the cops myself. Because at that point, enough is enough. Yeah. Enough is enough. But you know what's so crazy and sick about it all is a week after that happened, guess who's calling me again?

begging to be back with me and once again sending me videos of him playing with himself watching videos of us that he has how much he misses me and he so a week after that happened the sick bastard was back trying to get back with me what is it with him whacking off in videos