Throwback Thursday: Shanna Moakler - Her Side of the Story
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Is this thing on? Bonnie, who used to be a former sex worker, now hosts the podcast, Dumb Blonde. Most little girls grow up wanting to be doctors and lawyers and shit, and I was like, I want to be super hot, make a lot of fucking money, and be a rock star's wife. That was my goal as a child, and here we are. Hi, babies. Welcome to another episode of Dumb Blonde. Today...

We have a true icon, one who has lived a full life, and not just because of her exes, but because of hard work, tenacity, and her sheer will to shine, Ms. Shana Moakler. Hello. What you doing? That's a nice introduction. I mean, listen, girl, I've always loved you, but I really had to kind of study you for the podcast, you know? Sure, sure. And you're resilient as fuck. Thank you. And you've been through some shit. Yes, I have. Oh, yeah.

A lot, a lot. And I can't wait to touch base on it. And I feel like the media villainized. They're so kind. Aren't they sweet? They're so sweet. They're so kind to me. I've never had to deal with it on your level. I'm just now getting into it. Sure, sure. And just the outright lies. Yeah. I don't know how you've, you have, are like a pop culture icon. Thank you. Literally. Like everybody knows who you are. And if they don't, they fucking, I don't even live under a rock. Like for sure. Thank you.

I love you more. I got you, baby. I got you. But I just love that no matter what life has thrown at you, you've always made it a positive. You've always got back up on your feet and you've always just been like, you hit like a bitch and I'm just going to keep doing me. Yeah. Yeah. And you're outspoken. East coast.

I love that. So yeah, let's talk about it. So you grew up in Rhode Island? Yeah, I was born and raised in Rhode Island. I was born in Providence, raised in a small town called Barrington. And I was born and raised there. And I just always wanted to get into the entertainment industry. So there wasn't a big booming one in Rhode Island. So I started out in pageants. That's how I got into pageantry. And...

uh yeah and i i graduated high school i moved to miami i modeled there i went to new york i modeled there let's uh let's let's slow it down real quick i can tell you're so used to doing interviews because she's like let's get it in all yeah but we're gonna stop right there so you grew up in rhode island how was your relationship with your parents because i know that they both yeah i lost both my parents that is fucking tough dude yeah yeah it's brutal um i'm

I'm very grateful that I had my parents for as long as I did. And, I mean, it's just one of those parts of life, you know, where you know it's going to happen one day, but you just are like, no, it's never going to happen. But, you know, they were married for 52 years, and they were honestly, like, two of the most incredible human beings. And I'm so grateful that I had them. In fact, you know, I kind of thank them. I think my strength and my resilience is because of them, because I had –

such a strong family, um, you know, supporting me through all the craziness and the roller coaster ride. So, uh, you know, yeah, losing them, this is my first, you know, year without them. And I'm like, I'll cry. I'm like talking about them. I'm like, I'm going to start crying. But, um, you know, this is like my first holidays without them. And it's, it's hardcore. It's just, I mean, it's just that part of life, you know, that you just,

never wanted to have happen but happened and so yeah it's been it's been a really gnarly year for me but that's brutal yeah but they they were my strength they always supported me and they were so good to me and you know without them I wouldn't be where I am today and I'm just so grateful you know I know I I have friends that you know didn't even know their parents and yeah it didn't have that so I'm just I

Really happy I got to have him for as long as I did. He's so awesome. Chachi's just sprawled out, dick and everything, just hanging out right now. So cute. My heart breaks for you. I lost my mom last November, and then I found out my dad has stage four cancer this year, so I'm watching him die. So I couldn't even imagine...

you know what you're going through losing them yeah i was prepared for my dad to pass you know he was really i'm the last of four he was he was like 85 86 and but my mom was like just a like a super surprise you know so my condolences honestly no same to you um

uh, I forgot. Now I got all emotional too, thinking about it. I forgot what I was going to ask. Um, Oh, you said that your mom was surprised. Do you think that she possibly died from a broken heart? She, she actually died first. She died January 3rd. Yeah. She had a massive like heart attack. Just out of nowhere. No, no really healthy and doing well. I mean, I thought I was going to have her for like another, I thought she was going to drive me crazy for another 20 years, you know? But, um, um,

after she died I knew I knew when one went the other one would be really close like some notebook style stuff you know so um um at one point my dad was just so sick that I just was like god like please that's how that's where I'm at with like come take him please yeah like I don't want him to hurt anymore yeah totally yeah well back to your childhood let's let's get off the sad subject yeah sure um back to your childhood so when did you start modeling as a as a baby or like no I started

modeling when I was I went I wanted to be a model so bad my dad had this it was a dentist and he had this model from New York who would come to just see him and she was a Revlon model and I just when she would come I would be like wow but I would watch like you know Barbie commercials and stuff and be like

I want to do that. You know, like I don't want the Barbies. I want to be in the commercial. Yeah. I always loved that. And so my mom put me in a John Casablanca's like model. I remember the John Casablanca's. They used to be at the malls. Yeah. They were like in the malls and stuff.

Only the real OGs know that. Yeah, totally. And I was like 4'11 and like 75 pounds. My mom was like, I don't know how to tell you. This isn't going to work out for you. This isn't a dream you're going to have. But she put me in modeling and the pageant, the Miss Rhode Island Teen USA pageant, people were there. And they were like, you should come do the pageant. I was like 15. I was like, okay. And I did it and I placed like first runner up. And then I...

I finally, I just became like a kid model and I started making bank, like being a kid, like a junior model. And my parents were like, oh shit, maybe like she can do something with this, you know? Because I was doing like national campaigns, but as like a kid. But then I finally hit puberty and I grew. And the next year I ended up winning the Miss Rhode Island Teen USA pageant. I went to Miss Teen USA. Yeah.

What is doing pageants like? I mean, especially at a young age, do you, did you feel like all the competition? How were the girls? Like, did it create like insecurities in you? Because I would hate to be judged that young. Cause I was so fucking awkward as a teenager. I guess I looked at it more of like the glamor part of it, like the show. Like I was like, I want to be part of the show and the lights and the, um, and, uh, I was excited to interview and like, you know, share my personality with people. And, um,

And the girls were great. You know, you made friends and they had events for us and and they would teach you like beauty stuff, you know, and there was lots of networking, you know, so like, you know, they would go to John Casablanca's. They would go to modeling schools. They would introduce you to agencies. And that's what I was trying to get, you know. And so even so, even at such a young age, you really just had your eye on the prize.

Oh yeah. I was like, I was so ambitious. Yeah. I was like, I'm going to, and people would laugh at me, you know, my, I remember being in school and writing down like, I want to be a model and an actress. And like, it was like out of a movie that everyone like pointing and laughing, you know, but I was like, I'm going to,

You manifested your life. I'm going to do it. Yeah, I was like, I'm going to do it. And it's funny because I always wanted to be a model and they were like, oh, you're too little. You're too this. You'll never be a model. Then when I became a big model, then they were like, oh, well, I was like, I want to be an actress. And they're like, well, you can't be an actress. And then I became an actress and it's like, oh, well, you did TV. You can't do movies. You know, it's always like they always tell you something. I love that. I was just talking about that on my TikTok live today. I was like, they said, I forgot what the question was, but I was like,

Oh, they said, as an entrepreneur, what would you say? I said, never give up on yourself because you are the only one who's going to have your back 100%. So no matter if they tell you no, do it anyways. Yeah, try. Even if it doesn't work out. I mean, there's so many things I've tried and failed at, but you've got to try. And I think just even the first step, just try.

getting yourself out there. That's the hardest part. Once you do that, then you just keep, you know, one step at a time. Absolutely. So take me on this journey. You were doing pageants. Yes. And then how did you end up in L.A.? Sure, yeah. Was that at a young age, too? Yeah, yeah. I graduated high school. I moved to Miami. I did season there for, you know, like –

there. And then I, we all, you know, we follow the seasons and we, I moved to New York and I competed in Miss New York USA. What does that mean? Follow seasons. So in modeling, there's like seasons where, you know, the weather is really beautiful and all the clients and everyone go to Miami and shoot. Oh,

And then when the weather gets too hot, everyone goes to New York and then the weather gets nice there so then everyone, they follow the seasons. - I never knew that. - Yeah. - That's awesome. - Yeah, so that's what I did and I loved doing Miss Teen USA so much that I wanted to do Miss USA. So I did Miss New York and I won that and then I went to Miss USA. I was actually first runner up and the girl who beat me went to Miss Universe so I inherited the title of Miss USA and back then we were based in Los Angeles so I moved to LA to be Miss USA for a year.

And that's how I got to LA. I was 19 years old. I was like the youngest Miss USA in like a decade. It was pretty crazy. That is so crazy that you accomplished so much in such a short amount of time. Yeah. And I feel like people don't focus on that with you. They don't focus on your accomplishments. They want to just focus on like...

comments or shit that gets said and it's like yeah they want to focus on who I dated you know and I'm like I have like and we'll get we'll get to that but that's not you yeah it's crazy to me because I'm like you know I've I've really worked my ass off you know I've like beat the streets of Providence Boston Miami New York LA and I've auditioned for every everything I've ever done I've I had to audition it wasn't like I was just handed to me one role was handed to me but everything else was not handed to me you know I don't think people realize that

No, thank you. Of course. And that's really one of the things I wanted to highlight in this interview is like you're so much more than what is in the tabloids. Thank you. And so going back to you doing all of this, like, where are you living? How are you supporting yourself?

Well, when I moved to LA, when you win Miss USA, you got an apartment in LA for a year and you got free transportation and they flew me all over the country. And I worked with different charities like Special Olympics. I went to huge Hollywood, you know, what

what do they call them? Premieres and things. And I signed with William Morris and that was like, yeah, that's my career took off pretty quickly. That's when I got on Pacific blue and became a series regular and my, yeah, everything kind of took off. So, and then after my year was over, I crowned Allie Landry, the famous Doritos girl. And, and yeah, I just got a little apartment in LA and I just hit the, hit the streets, hit the streets. Yeah. Yeah.

So, okay, you're 19 years old. Yes. You're in L.A. Yes. How is 19-year-old Shayna feeling? Just coming from fucking small Rhode Island. Yeah. Which is beautiful, but. Yeah, L.A. was hard at first to get used to, especially coming from the East Coast. East Coast people will come to L.A. and do pretty good. L.A. people will go to the East Coast and they usually come back real quick. They don't like it.

as much over there. But it was hard. You know, LA's, you know, it's a bigger city. It's very spread out and it's very clicky. People, you know, they see a lot of people come and go. They see a lot of Hollywood people. And so they don't let people into their clicks very easy. So it was hard to make friends, but I eventually did. And yeah,

I just, I just, I look back now and I mean, I just had the time of my life. It was just kind of felt like where your soul belonged. Yeah. Oh yeah. This was like home and you know, the, my OG, the old crew of Hollywood, I'm actually going to see them all. We're going to be celebrating one of our OGs birthdays.

coming up this Saturday and I'll see a lot of the old school people. And it was just like the best time ever. It feels like a million lifetimes ago, but it was like the most amazing, amazing time of my life. Isn't it crazy? Cause you and I are around the same age. Isn't it crazy to think back to 20 years ago and we're just like, bro, how the fuck did it fly by so fast? Yeah. It's going to be like 30 years for me. I'm 48. I'm going to be 49. And I, you know, I moved here when I was 19 LA when I was 19 and I'm like, I'm

how did I like, how did, where did those two decades go? I was like, where's my thirties go? You know? And I'm like, wait, my forties. No, like it's so crazy. Dude, my twenties and thirties were a blur. I grew up in Vegas. So I can only imagine. We spent hella time in LA too. So I can only imagine living in that 24 seven. Yeah. It's so crazy. Take me to one of the first premieres that you ever went to. Like, how did you feel? Like, were you excited? Was it like, were you nervous? Yeah. You know, um,

um i god one of my first premieres kind of i don't even know it would be my first one but i mean one of the most memorable ones um i get oh god i have really i have a really funny story for you um you'll like this okay so i i was friends with kato kalin back in the day oh my god and he was like i got a friend who um he's like i got a friend that needs a date to a movie premiere and um

And I'm like, who? And he's like, Bill Maher. And I didn't really know. Back then he just had like his show was on like Comedy Central or something like that. I'm not a huge fan of Bill Maher. And I'm sorry if you guys all are, but I'm not. Yeah. But I was like, all right, I'll go like fucking. It was like it was like this Sean Penn movie.

you know and I was like okay and so I go and he you know he picks me up and he takes me to this movie premiere and we do like the red carpet and it's like really cool and I meet like all these huge celebrities and all the stuff and Francis Ford Coppola sitting in front of us with his daughter and I'm just like this is the fucking coolest thing ever but I'm with Bill Maher you know and I'm like

Whatever. Fuck it. You know, how old was Bill back then? I don't know. He's always been old. I think he's like the same age as me, but he's like real fucking proud to have me like on his arm. And he's like with like the guys, you know, like his friends. I'm just like, oh, Christ, you know, like, no, like it's not happening. Anyway, so we after the premiere, Sean Penn goes up to him and he's like, hey, we're going to go to Jack Nicholson's house.

Good old Jack. Yeah, come on up with him. And I had known Jack, and I had known Sean, whatever. And we get in the car, and Bill puts his hand on my leg. And I'm just like, oh, no. I don't want them like, no. I'm not, no, no. But this is terrible. This is a terrible story. It's fucking awesome. I don't even fucking care. I can't stand him. So this is...

Payback bill. So, like, he cares. But we, so we go up there to, like, Jack Nicholson's house and, you know, and it was really fun. How is Jack? Jack is a fucking icon. Oh, he introduced me to my, basically to Oscar de la Hoya. I was, like, at Jack's house and he was like, this is the golden boy. You know, all the ladies love this guy.

you know? I love Jack so much. He's such an icon. He is hot, you know? And then I remember when I went out like that week and I met Oscar and I was like, that's the guy that Jack was telling me about, you know? And when Oscar and I actually ended up- Did you meet Oscar with Bill Maher or?

No. Okay, just two separate. Yeah, two separate things. So how did it end with Bill Maher? And we'll move on to Oscar. Yeah, and then we'll go over there. So, you know, he's trying to get Sean on his show and he's trying to get Jack on his show or whatever. And then he wanted me to sit next to him. And I didn't, I don't know, I was like comfortable. So I like. How old were you? I was like 20. Okay. Just a baby. I was like a baby. Yeah. Isn't it crazy how like, and Bill Maher's the same age. I swear. How old is Bill Maher? Can we Google that? Because he was old back then. I feel.

like yeah I feel like he's not the same he's always kind of looked like the same yeah he's like one of those people that like constantly old yeah you know what I'm talking about like Mr. Rogers love Mr. five

my back. So he was 40 when I was 20. That's crazy. That's even worse, Bill. Come on. So like, yeah, whatever. So anyway, we end up leaving and he was really angry that I didn't like when he was like when I when I like I moved from sitting next to him like he wanted the guys to think that he had this like hot little blonde with him and I was like, no, I don't want them to

them to bro you're like old as shit yeah so um and in the car uh he was like really angry with me and so i just started talking to like the driver and stuff and then we got out i love how nothing phases you girl i need to do your birth chart because i know you're an aries but what's your moon um i think i'm a virgo okay gotcha i could see that for sure like i'm not i need to do your birth chart after the show because it's just how unbothered you are is fucking priceless oh like i was

like you're not gonna ruin my time like I was like I came out here to like you know like just to have fun like I no expectation yeah no expectation I wasn't here to date you I was just like we were just going out as like friends and you know whatever and then he got out of the car we got out of the car and I remember I walked I had a doorman I was on Wilshire corridor back then and my doorman knew me and you know he walked in and he goes

I just want to let you know that you are one of the most disrespectful young women I have ever met in my entire life. And I was like, excuse me. And he's like, shh. And I was like, did you? What?

did you just shush me and I and he was like he goes and I just want you to know I will never ever be seeing you again you should have let those men know that you were with me and you were completely disrespectful and I was like first of all yeah I was like wait hold up I'm not your bitch I'm not your girlfriend and I don't need to let anyone know that I'm with you and I was like and I'm totally fine like not seeing you again and I remember he left in my doorman was like what the

fuck was that? And I was like, I don't know. And ever since then, I've been like, boo. Fuck Bill Maher. Yeah, I'm like, fuck Bill Maher. Oh, God. That is, that's a priceless fucking story for sure. I'm like, thanks, Kato fucking Katelyn. Yeah, where the hell's Kato Katelyn at now? I don't know. He did Big Brother too, not too long ago. Celebrity Big Brother, but,

I feel like he pops in at the weirdest times. Yeah, the weirdest. Like he popped in for the OJ shit. Yeah, yeah. He popped in for like. Yeah, and I did Big Brother and he popped in and did a little stint on there and then just like ran off into the sunset. Yeah, that dude has made a fucking career off just popping in and like being like people's friends. Yeah, really weird. It's crazy. Yeah, yeah. That's what he's known for. He's not an actor or anything, is he? I don't know what he's ever done. Okay.

I know, but he's somehow a fucking household name. So he figured it out for himself. That's Hollywood for you. You know, people can like, yeah, no, but make a name off themselves. Just, just being themselves, I guess being roommates of people. Exactly. Um, so let's, let's move on. So what, how old were you when you met Oscar? I was, uh,

I was like 22 turning I was like 22 23 so you had originally met him when you were 20 didn't really know who he was and then kind of just like you guys crossed paths yeah yeah yeah yeah so take me on that gap in between 20 to 22 what are you doing out there just I'm working I'm on the USA show Pacific Blue yes I got that list right here I was working and you did a bunch of shows you did Pacific Blue you did CSI Entourage which is iconic as fuck yeah I played a furry

People love that. How was it on the, on the entourage? I mean, that's such a great show. And you know, that show was so successful. You know, when you have a show that is so successful and everyone's making money, that's really fun because there's a lot of money and everyone's really happy. And so it's a, it's a nice place to work. How are all the boys? They're just amazing. Yeah. Yeah. Kevin Connolly is like so awesome. Um, I've known him forever. He's such a good guy. And, um,

yeah everyone on the on the show I love all those guys just amazing I love that for you it's just such an iconic show you know um and you also were on the wedding singer yeah that was my first that was one of my first roles um I ever did I was at a barbecue and Adam Sandler was like hey do you want to like that's the one role where he was like hey do you want to yeah you know be in this movie and how do you just go to a barbecue with Adam Sandler I know I'd shit my I'd shit my pants because that's that's father you know that's the thing like you know back then every

you went out you know you were just everyone used to go out it wasn't so pretentious yeah like there's so many celebrities just ran in the circles like that's how Vegas was yeah Vegas and Hollywood were so much alike like I would go to the fucking palms and Pamela Anderson would be there fucking Anna Nicole you know like everyone nobody had security going out no one had security yeah like really fun it was like the Playboy Mansion you know yeah parties when

he first lit the candles in the grotto again after his marriage. I mean, those parties were awesome. Everyone went, like Leo and everyone. I think Leo is still partying. Yeah, I think so. I don't think he's stopped. Pussy posy, yeah, all those guys. And I love all those guys, too. Yeah, absolutely. So getting into TV. Yes.

How did you get into it? Like you were like, okay, I'm going to do TV. I'm done with modeling. I don't want to do pageants anymore. Is that what... Well, I won the big one, you know? And so there's really no more to do in pageantry for me. You know, I could have gone and done Miss America, but it's a scholarship pageant for girls that really want to go to college. And I wasn't going to go to... I had no desire to go to college. So... She's like, I already know what the fuck I'm doing. Yeah. I'm like, I want to, you know, and I...

For me, being in entertainment, you know, going to college would have taken years of, you know, where I need to be auditioning and stuff. Absolutely. Yeah. So, yeah, I was just beating the like just auditioning, auditioning, auditioning. I have a question, though. So girls literally strive their entire life to make it to that Miss America pageant. Yeah. How do it?

what is life after pageantry for those girls who are lifers? - It's really hard. It's hard for a lot of them. Miss America, it's not really a beauty pageant. It's really girls that have a platform and really want scholarship money to pay off their tuitions and stuff.

So it's more of an interview. They say it's a talent pageant, but it's really more of an interview pageant. And so those girls, they really wanna be, they have like a plan already. Like they wanna be in aviation or doctors, lawyers. - Gotcha, okay, so there is life out there. - Yeah, there's life. Like they're going to go do stuff. Where in Miss USA, Miss Universe, those girls are more entertainment based. They want to be in movies, hosting, acting, modeling. So we always say,

We always say, you know, Miss America is the girl that lives next door and Miss USA is the girl you wish lived next door. But it's more of a beauty patch. It's more based on physical beauty. It's not so much college-based. All those girls are gorgeous. Didn't Donald Trump used to host those? He owned it. Yeah, I worked for Donald for a long time. Did you meet him? Did he ever grab you by the pussy? Oh, I have met him. Yeah, he and I were in like a crazy lawsuit together and against each other and together. What? Did he ever grab you by the pussy? No, he didn't. Okay.

I decided to ask. He was the biggest fan.

- Oh, what happened? Can we talk about it? - Oh yeah, we can totally talk about it. It's actually pretty famous. There was my title, I used to run, I was the executive director for the Miss California USA pageant. And I had a title holder named Carrie Brugine and she was a very religious girl. And when she competed at Miss USA, Perez Hilton asked her about same sex marriage 'cause at the time-- - Perez is coming on the podcast tomorrow. - Oh nice, oh yeah, yeah, tell him I said what's up.

Tell him if he says another thing about my daughter, Alabama, we're going to the mattresses. I will. I will tell him that. Please tell him that. I will. Um, uh,

Yeah, I'll tell you a little more about Perez later. Okay, yeah, we'll talk about that. We'll talk about Perez later, too. But yeah, so Perez asked her about same-sex marriage. And at the time, it was very controversial. We had, like, Prop 8 going on, and it was a very big deal. We were, like, marching. And she was religious. Yeah, she was very religious. Right. And so she just said that, you know, she stated, you know, that she just felt like, you know...

marriage was between a man and a woman, and that was her opinion. But the way it came across was really offensive to a lot of people, especially in pageantry. There's so many... We just have a huge gay community. And so it was really offensive to a lot of people. And then she basically...

kind of like breached her contract, started kind of like running all over the country. A huge church, the NAM, it's called the National Organization for Marriage. It's very, it's kind of what created Prop 8 and it's very, it's highly funded. And then, you know,

like the Baptist churches from the South kind of latched onto her. I think I remember that. Yeah. I wanted her to kind of be like the face of, you know, of anti gay marriage and stuff. Right. And started paying her like massive money, amounts of money to go to these churches that kind of had like anti gay rallies. Right. You know, associated, you know, homosexuality with like bestiality. It was like awful. So, you know, we were trying to like, be like, you're under a contract. You can't just go do these appearances without us and all this stuff. Um,

So Trump at first, we had to go to Trump and be like, we can't control her, like, and she's losing her mind. And he, we had like this big, you know, press conference over at the Trump Towers. It was like Canspin Film Festival with the cameras and stuff. And I wanted her to lose her crown. I thought, you know, her,

behavior just the way she treated us wasn't very pageantry like it was you know because you want little girls to be able to look up and everybody's entitled to their own opinions but at the same time it's like you don't talk about religion and it got just gross and nasty we had sponsors you know that are like I'm a gay you know we just gave you hundreds of thousands of dollars and you know she's

hates me. You know, it was really bad. And he let her keep her crown and I resigned. I quit. I was like I'm not supporting this. I'm out. I quit. I made like I I mean I was on CNN. I was on you know it was really big news Ryan Seacrest and

and then I think even she, Trump got sick of her and then Trump ended up firing her and asking me to come back, which I did, and then she sued all of us. And so she sued Trump and I and we all had to like go to meetings. - What did she sue for? - She sued for religious discrimination. - Wow. - Yeah, and so that was-- - How did that end up?

This is amazing. She sued us. So she was suing you and Trump. You guys weren't suing each other. Correct. Yes. She was suing Trump. She went after Trump and then myself and my partner in the Miss California USA organization. She had a boyfriend who sent all her... She masturbated a lot. And she took videos of herself masturbating. Well, that wasn't the turn I was thinking was about to happen. Yeah.

She masturbated a lot and she sent... Isn't that against religion? Well, I mean, for masturbating. Listen, I will leave a snail trail anywhere. I am totally fine for it. Yeah, I'm totally... You know, please be proud. Masturbate and be proud. But she... Her boyfriend sold all her masturbation videos to TMZ and...

Now you have to understand that now at this point she's become where she was a little religious, right? She then was getting making a lot of money with these with these churches. And so then she kind of became this really very religious woman. But she was not. Not to that extent, you know. And I always feel like when people are like that, they're always hiding something. Yeah. I grew up in a very religious environment and my family was the most hypocritical people.

you could ever meet. - Yeah, it's always that preacher who's like, you know, and then he's found in like a motel with a, you know, having a homosexual relationship. - Yeah, smoking crack and fucking, yeah, doing weird shit, yeah. - Yeah, exactly. So we ended up the lawsuit, you know, presenting that, you know, and she denied it until like the, you know, the camera went up to her face from her vagina to her face, you know? And then she, so we settled out. - Oh good, yeah. - Yeah, ended it, so that was-- - Crazy. - Yeah, that was my first year as a state director.

So why did he not like you though? Just because you quit and you took a stance because I quit and said that I will not support him. I wouldn't support because you have to understand the contract that she signed is the same contract I signed at Miss USA and Miss USA. And I had to abide by the contract. I couldn't go tell my state directors to fuck off and go do whatever I wanted to do. And, you know, and I felt like, well, why does she get to breach it? Because she's bringing in press. Right. Donald love press. And it's like, I get that. But like,

She's also like killing our business. Our sponsors are dropping and she's, you know, people are offended and hurting people. Hurting people. Yeah. Crazy. Yeah. Okay. So moving on. That story was awesome though. So you're doing TV. Yeah. When did you do The Wedding Singer?

I was about 20, 20 years old. Yeah. Okay. And you met Billy Idol. I did. I met him on that. I met him on, on that set. Yeah. How's his wiener? He,

He was a really good lover. I'm not going to lie. I do. See, I know I had a feeling because those rocker dudes, for some reason, I love musicians and rocker dudes, but they, the majority of them, not all of them are pretty passionate. He was, he was actually really fun and really cool. And he actually was really awesome to talk to you.

He just knew like a lot about like history and was like really fun conversations at home. And he stimulated you intellectually. Yeah, he did stimulate me intellectually. And he just he was just a lot of fun. But I was just so young. I was like, baby, settle down with like anyone. I was like wild as hell. So you're literally living everybody's dream. Yeah.

He was super fun, though. I love that. So you're doing TV. You're doing these movies. How are you feeling? Did you ever fall into the drug scene in LA or get involved with that? No, I never did. No, I never got into drugs. I wasn't even too much of a drinker, really. I just was high on life, just running around. And I just wanted so badly to be a movie star and to break into movies. And I just was very...

nuts i wouldn't call myself like a star fucker because i just ran in those like circles of people back then i don't even think that was a thing yeah now it's more like clout chasers but back then it was like it was where you were and who you knew yeah i mean people were just everywhere yeah you couldn't avoid you didn't pursue them you literally just ran into them yeah but i um i just was i just was so zoned in on just being successful and and i just wanted to prove

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So moving on, you meet Oscar. Yes, I do. Take me on this journey. Yeah. So one of my best friends from Rhode Island was a security guard at this, I think it was called, it was a big club in West Hollywood, the Eden or something, Garden of Eden or something. People will know that. I'm looking at my notes. I'm not ignoring. I'm not just taking a phone call right now or anything like that. I literally have. No, you're totally fine. You're like, oh.

I'm sorry I'm gonna drink I know you're so dehydrated you're talking I know you said you're you said can we say it or you said you were hungover I'm a little hungover I actually I've been on this terrible sleep so I went to bed at like nine o'clock last night like I told you and um and I woke up at like six in the morning and I didn't know what to do with myself so I went and played like some cards like some uh and I just had like a couple drinks and I was like oh my god I gotta go do this

podcast too. I'm drunk. I gotta like Mimi's fucking hungover too. I gotta get it together. They didn't come barreling into like 3am. I was like, I gotta do this podcast somewhere. I'm not drinking with you guys. So yeah. Yeah. Um, yeah. So I, my, I went to this nightclub and, uh,

I remember he walked by and I used to go run around Hollywood and then I would go to this bar to meet my friend and wait for him to get paid and we would all go get like pizza or go to you know whatever after food spots we all used to go to and

And he walked by and the other security guards were like, "Shana, do you know who that was? "Do you know who that was? "That was Oscar de la Hoya." And I was like, "Oh, that's who Jack told me about." That's what I was like, "Oh, that's who Jack was talking about. "He was really cute." And they're like, "Do you wanna meet him?" And I was like, "Okay." And so they brought me over to him and we just like,

we just looked in each other's eyes and it was just like ding and that was like it. Do you feel like it was some sort of like a connection like from your life type thing? Oh my God, instantly. And I knew I was like, I'm, and back then I was like, I'm never going to have babies. Like I'm never having kids. Like I'm just going to like live my life. And, and I met him and I was like, oh, I'm going to have your baby. Like,

Like I was like, I am going to have your baby and we're going to be like, and I was so happy. I was like, yeah, we had a, quite a whirlwind there. Does he dress up in women's clothing? Really? No, he doesn't. Cause I mean, I, well, I remember when that was going down and I was like, well, how do we explain these pictures? What was happening? You know, he,

he does drink a lot. He had like a drinking problem for sure. And he's the kind of, we've all done some weird shit. I'll do some weird shit, but he's the kind of drinker that like, you know, he can drink a lot, but he's like wasted off the first shot. You know, those kinds of people, like we have to like babysit him. I feel like some Latin Americans cannot drink. Like they can't, like some Indians, they have a really hard time. Yeah. It's like, you know, it's some people's,

like biochemistry or something like they just like but like when he drinks like two drinks and he's like like as if he had 50 he can drink 50 but he's like as wasted off the first as he would be like on the 50th right and so but he's very fun like he's a fun person and he's you know and he loves to sing

and he's and he's very social he's very charismatic and you know and he really just you know and you know he's in training you know he would train for three four months in big bear at a time and then you know he wanted to like let loose and go crazy after the fights and just be young you know he was he was 25 when i met him yeah and i was 22 23 years old yeah oh you guys were babies yeah we were like babies and um but you know he's like one of those people that you know would like you know put like

the clothes on just to be funny and silly. Oh, God. You know what I'm saying? Somebody took the picture and then someone took the pictures and then tried it to like basically blackmail him, you know, that is terrible. Yeah, I just the media is fucking terrible like that. I've always wondered that I was like, is that his kink? Because I know there are some people with kinks like that, you know? No, no. So take me into you guys's relationship. Yeah, you guys met that night and then it was just a whirlwind romance. Yeah, I got pregnant six months later and I remember saying to him,

Did you just move in with him right away? Yeah, we moved in with each other. And we just were madly in love. And I think our first date, I went to Big Bear. And we took a private jet to Vegas. And he took me to a George Foreman fight. Aw, damn. That's iconic. Yeah, it was really cool. And I just remember people being like, champ.

chip and like I've never been with an athlete and you know there's a difference between fans of athletes and fans of movie stars like there's a real difference what's the difference they're just way crazier way more fanatic you know fanatical and I just was like this is crazy and I didn't really know anything about the boxing world or you know him really

I just fell in love with who he was. He was very romantic. And I just loved his culture and the Latino, like, kind of, you know, energy of him. And I'm half Portuguese. I'm Portuguese and Irish. Me too. I'm Brazilian and white trash. That's what I always say. I love it. Yeah, and we just, like, we just fell in love. But, you know, we were so young and we had so... He, he had so much money and had so much power and he had so many people just...

pulling at him from every direction. I mean, you know, we just did an HBO documentary and I was actually really surprised that he kind of let me be as candid and he was as candid and really as brutally honest about, you know, his drinking, his drug problem, you know, his womanizing, his sex addiction. Do you think he's trying to right his wrongs now, now that he's older? Yeah, absolutely. And, you know, he has...

he did me pretty, pretty dirty, you know? Yeah. Let's talk about that. Cause you had, so you had a Tiana. Yeah. I had a Tiana. She was about one and a half, two years old. And I knew things were going on. I, you know, they were like, you always know when they're cheating. Yeah. You always know. It's not, it's never fucking not noticeable. Yeah. And you know, and,

that didn't bother me so much as like there were all these third parties there was like you know he had just lost his first fight and there were lots of new businessmen in and they were making changes and stuff and basically like um

He went to sing. He was doing an album. And I was like, you're singing now? What the fuck is happening? It was really weird. But I remember I met him at the Hilton at Universal. Every time I pass it to this day, I still remember. And I met him at the Universal. And I was like, do you want this anymore? And he was like, you know what? He's like, I'm going to go to New York. I'm going to go do Letterman. And when I come back, we're going to start fresh. He's like, I want you and the baby. You're my girls. We're going to start. He's like, go.

He's like, go buy some art for the house. Go get some new things for the house. And when I come back, we're going to start fresh. And I was like, OK. That was like on a Friday. And then it was like-- Do you think he really genuinely in that moment meant that? Or do you think he was pacifying the situation because he wanted to avoid confrontation? I'll never know. You'll never know. I'll never know. Obviously, it was everything I wanted to hear in that moment.

but I'll never know, but I was in our home, our mansion in Bel Air, and my daughter was sleeping in her nursery, my mother was there, my girlfriend, and we were watching the Latin Grammy Awards, and I just remember they were like, Oscar de la Hoya is about to hit the red carpet. Meanwhile, I'm calling him like, hey honey, did you get home all right? Like, where are you? And he's not answering, and I kinda like, we all looked at each other like, Oscar de la Hoya's on the red carpet, like what the fuck is he

doing there? And it's in LA, you know? So we're like, wait, what? And they go to a commercial break. And so we're waiting and I'm like, what is he doing there? Why the fuck am I not there? Like, what's happening? And then he comes back and there he is holding hands with his now ex-wife, Millie Cordahe, or I don't know how to say her name, whatever, Millie. And I just time, you know in Kill Bill when that like, me,

Yeah. When everything just slows down. I mean, I just like, I just remember I lost my breath and I just was like, oh,

and he was holding her hand and they were like a couple and i just like i my mom and everybody had publicly known that you guys were together right yeah we were a couple and they just accepted this there was no backlash of like there was really no backlash and he was so powerful and the media was just so he had such control of the media that wow um you know yeah i i didn't stand a chance and um

And the next day they had a lawyer come to the house and say, you and the baby need to, you know, need to move out. And I was like, I'm not moving out. I don't know. I'm not, I like, this is my home. And, you know, uh, and it just became like a world, like a shit show, a whirlwind, like a shit show. And we were in like, you know, we fought for probably like, did you ever get him back on the phone? No, he never called me again. Uh, he had his, um,

Raul come to me and tell me that he no longer wanted to be with me. And I remember breaking down in Raul's arms and crying. I think Raul was crying. We were both crying. And I just was like, is this really, I couldn't even like, I just remember sitting on the balcony of that Bel Air mansion with a bottle of vodka and a cigarette and being like, what the fuck am I going to do now? And I really thought in that moment that my life was over. Oh,

How old were you? I was 24 years old. You're a baby. Yeah, but I quit working. I thought I was going to be a wife and a mom. Was he very controlling about your working? Because I know that culture. A lot of the men do not like their women. He did not want me working. I quit working for him. I quit everything. At that point, I didn't have a manager. I didn't have an agent anymore. Back in the day, you had to have those to even do anything. There was no social media like we have today. I don't even think we have

phones like we had I think we had like a flip phone the brick phone a Motorola or something you know the sidekicks yeah there was no yeah like literally like doing the you know one word like texting him literally like that exactly that's how I'm texting him where are you 15 minutes later you know

But yeah, I was like, so it's kind of like that. And I, I remember the fact that everybody could publicly know that you guys were together. Yeah. And then him be able to just present a new woman on the right. That would never fly. Oh, in today's day and age. Like, are you kidding? No. Yeah. And the fact that you just had to eat it. I had to fucking eat.

behind the scenes like did you go through were you were probably going through postpartum during this too correct well no my daughter was about two one and a half two years old you know no i just um that's why i ended up um uh you know what he said to me i you know this is so crazy this part of it i remember because i he wouldn't see me and i remember i went out to a club and paris hilton was there and he was fucking paris hilton at that time even though he

with Millie. You and Paris have a long extensive history. Yeah, he was fucking Paris and I got... Even though he was with Millie? Yeah, even though he had just started dating Millie and I knew he was there to meet her and she was like hanging out with me and I was just like, why are you hanging out with me? And he saw me and I left.

I left the club and he wanted to meet me. And so I went and I met him like the next day. And it was the first time I'd seen him since... How long ago was it? How long after this? It was about a month since the Latin Grammy Awards. Okay, gotcha. And we were in the car talking and he came to meet me. And I just said to him, I'm like, why did you do that? Like, why did you...

internationally humiliate me like you know like and I have nothing you know I have nothing now I don't even like know what to like how to like move forward from this yeah and meaning when you say nothing not monetarily you're just meaning like your family or you're talking about I just felt at that point in my life like my career was over I had no agent I you know my future I thought I had this whole

future planned, you know, and that was like ripped away from me in a matter of 24 hours. And I just like, you know, I didn't know, I didn't know what to do. And he just said, oh, I had a chemical imbalance. That's what he said to me. And I said, what the fuck? I was like, okay. And I just was like, well, I don't want to like go to the, like, I don't want to legally go after you. Like, can we like, can you help me? Like, I don't know what I'm going to do. Like, where am I going to live? Like where, like what, like, I don't know what to do, you know? And he was like,

And he goes, you know, Shana, he goes, and at that point we had gone to court and figured out our child support. And he goes, you know, you already took me to court for child support and I'm not happy about that. And he goes, and if you sue me for palimony, he goes, I'm not going to see you or the baby till she's 16 years old. And, um, did you guys make out or did you just have a conversation? No, we just had a conversation. I mean, I was bawling and I mean, I was still madly, madly in love with him. And I just like, I thought I was losing like,

you know this was the man like i just had your first baby with yeah i worshipped him and um and he said you know he goes i won't see you or the baby till i was till she's 16 and i just was like no fucking way no way would you do that and then he goes and he got out of the car i'll never forget this and he went around to the drive sitting in the driver's seat and he knocked on the window and i rolled it down and he goes i have i have more money than god don't be too hard on me

And he left. That gave me goosebumps, dude. And he fucking left, and I sat in that car. I'm only like crying. I sat in the car, and I cried for like, fuck, man. And I just was like, there's no way. I sued him for palimony, and I won. I love that you didn't back down, though. Yeah, I really didn't have a choice. I honestly was scared. And I was saying to him in the car, I was like, well...

I don't want to sue you for palimony. I don't like, let's figure this out. But can you help me? Like, can, like, I don't even know if I have a fucking car. Like, I don't like, can you, can you at least like give me, you know, something so that I, I can raise our daughter in a safe environment and I can put her in a good school. And I, I know like I have some support or, you know, um, security, but he wouldn't, he wouldn't talk to me. So I really didn't have a choice.

And, you know, in the news back then, they were like, Shana sues him for $200 million. I didn't want to. Not knowing the background of what's going on. Yeah, I mean, that was half of his money back then. Any woman that has been hurt the way that you were, I think you were pretty fucking nice. Yeah. You didn't slander him in the public. I wanted him back. I wanted him back so bad. But he didn't see the baby and I until she was about 16 years old. Wow.

Yeah. He didn't. My heart just dropped. I feel so bad for Atiana. Yeah, she didn't know her father growing up. And they've made amends. And he's made amends with me. And he's apologized. And he's apologized to her. How long did it take for him to apologize and to make amends? Has he been consistent in her life since she turned 16? He was. He was being pretty consistent. He has a new girlfriend. And I think he's midlife-crisising out a little bit. Damn it, Oscar. He's definitely.

you know he's trying he's doing the best that he can do and he's really owned up to a lot of his mistakes and his faults and I will honor and respect him for that you know he's not he didn't have an easy life and he's not a perfect person and I will always love him as the father of my daughter but he's tried but you know

Atiana looks at him like a father and she loves him immensely but Travis is her dad oh yeah Travis is her father like her daddy oh I love that being a bonus parent I that really makes my heart happy because yeah it's it's such a hard role to take on and we'll get into their relationship sure yeah how is your relationship with Atiana are you guys good are you guys I have a great relationship with my kids you know you know it's it's hard you know there's a you know

parental alienation is a real thing and we can get into that a little later but

you know, I was a, I'm a, I'm a goddamn good mom. I'm a fucking great mother. And I raised all my kids and I, I did a good job with a lot of heavy shit. Yeah. And you know, even without Tiana when she was little, you know, I made sure that because her dad wasn't there, I would go to the schools and be like, I want her in classes with all male teachers. I want her to have positive male role models. You know, I, I would have her go and spend summers with my mom and dad because I wanted her to see a functioning, healthy, loving, you know, um,

I made those choices for her to see those things and be a part of those things. I have a great relationship with my kids. My kids and I never had any bumps in the road until my ex-husband started dating the Kardashian crew. And I don't fault my kids for some of the things that they said. They were kids and they were influenced. But a teenager saying one thing one time doesn't take away...

the years that I did raising my children. I'm very confident in who I am as a mother and how I raised my children. But,

but I'm, I'm not estranged from my children. I'm very close to my children. I love that. We have great relationships. Yeah. We'll dive a little deeper into that once we get into their births and stuff like that. Um, but yeah, I just wanted to know where you and Atiana stood because I mean, you guys were babies growing up together. We really were. Yeah. Do you feel like the bond, like she's more of like a, like a sister or no, I'm definitely her mom. She's like, no, I'm mom. No, no, no, I'm definitely

I love it. She's beautiful too. She is. I mean, all your kids are fucking gorgeous. I'm very proud of all three of them, but she just has, um, she has a very incredible, sweet, kind soul. She seems like that. She seems very peaceful. She is. She's, she's more, um, conservative and much more chill than the other two. Right. But the other two are your karma. Yeah, exactly. Oh yeah. God gave me Vamma last

for a reason. I love that. Um, so moving on, you're going through this heartbreak. You're having to go through this. I did Playboy. Yeah. So is that what you did as soon as you broke up with? Yeah, that's what I did. And he never would. I was on Pacific Blue and they wanted me to be a celebrity pictorial and he would never let, he was like, no, absolutely not. He was like, no way. You know, Mexican, you know, no, no, no. Um,

But at the time, I needed the money to pay my attorney to do the palimony suit. Did you guys settle in the palimony suit? Yes, we ended up settling. He ended up being very... I don't know. Couldn't we have just done this a year ago? I think he just wanted to see if you had it in you. Yeah, maybe. Yeah, maybe. Yeah. I didn't have a choice. I was like...

you know, I'm like, I'm doing a motherfucker. I don't want to do this. I was like, I love you. Please don't make me do this. Like we'll do it. You know? But, um, yeah. So, uh, I ended up doing playboy, but they wouldn't make me a celebrity. Uh,

pictorial after that see so it like ruined it hurt my career right and so they said we'll give you make you a playmate you know you can pick your month wouldn't that be better to be a playmate though than just a celebrity pictorial because isn't that like a one-time thing yeah it's a one-time thing but you get paid a lot more gotcha yeah you get paid a lot more so it's hundreds of thousand dollars or twenty thousand dollars yeah you know and as a

you know, you have to do a video, you have to do certain things, but you know what? My Playboy experience was the most epic, coolest, amazing, like shooting at Playboy Studio West was Steve Weta, Arnie Freytag, like just, you know, the kings of photography. It was just such a

a really cool time and Hef and just was so good to me. I never dated Hef. No, you don't have to fuck Hef to be a playmate. Like he was a complete gentleman, a class act to me and welcomed me into his home. I love that whole era of Playboy. I felt like that was the time that like women kind of all came together for just a cause. And like, it was just like, you know, it was like a girl gang. Yeah.

And it was like, if you were part of that girl gang, I did work for Playboy TV. I wasn't pretty enough to make it in the magazine. Um, but I did shoot. No, I, no, listen, I shot with, uh, I think his name was Bill White at Playboy West. Okay. Okay. Yeah. And they, they were just like, no, they were there.

you know they i mean sometimes they power tripped a little bit yeah which is fine yeah which is fine but i was all i you know partied i yeah did the whole playboy thing yeah like um but that era was just i don't know like even though it was for a nude magazine it was so wholesome it was it was so wholesome and like it's so weird to say that but it was it's so true though and you know um

it was and you know it was good teaching women to embrace their bodies yeah really yeah and every it's so interesting because it's like a sisterhood all the playmates are like a sister where you know the pageantry there's sisterhood in that I used to try to get the pageant girls to go to dinner with the playmates but then that never went well so dude that how epic would that be to have a pageant playboy edition yeah that would be crazy yeah there's a lot of girls now that you know do it now that their pageants are over they're like I want to do it yeah oh I wish you did

years ago. It was so cool. Tell me about it. So I've met Hef a couple times too and I thought he was always so sweet. He was a little disconnected. He was just kind of like there and just kind of did his own thing. I first met him when I was Miss USA and I was doing a charity event and he was still married to Kim at that time. And I remember he came up to me and he goes, you know, you're truly a beautiful young woman. And I just thought like... What a compliment. What a fucking compliment from him. I mean, I went to bed that night like...

Holy shit. You know, I remember when I was like, this is crazy weird. People are going to think it's weird. But I remember my dad used to have like Playboy, you know. Same, my dad did too. In the bathroom. He would have them in the bathroom. I remember looking at them and I just thought the women were so beautiful. And I remember being on the bus and kids were like, what do you want to be when you grow up? And I was like, a Playboy bunny. I didn't know what that meant. And I remember everyone being like, oh my God.

And then to ironically end up becoming a Playboy bunny later is very, very funny. But yeah, I was 19 when I first met Hef. And then I was with Oscar. I wasn't allowed to do it. But then when I was 25 turning 26, that's when I became a Playmate. And...

and I vied for Playmate of the Year. It was between me and Darlene. They made us go shoot on just a white backdrop, completely naked. And it was between she and I. And that's when he had like seven girlfriends. And I think like five of his girlfriends were in the contention that year. But I never felt pressure or anything like that. But I was the first playmate to ever have a belly button rings.

Oh, I love that. Yeah, and I had like a little rabbit head. I feel like back in the day, they didn't let tattoos either. Yeah, you weren't allowed to have piercings or tattoos. Hef didn't like them, but he changed that as he got older. Yeah. And times changed. How do you feel about all the stuff that's coming out about Hef right now? It's disgusting. Yeah. Yeah, it's disgusting. I mean, there's just, you know, there are playmates...

that I think do things for money and for attention and for fame and you know the playmates who really knew Hef and were part of that family you know are just completely it's just vile and just you know let him rest in peace what the fuck are you guys doing ripping this man apart and he can't defend himself I have no respect for that shit you know at all I love that you're standing up for him

though. Yeah. Oh, I just love he and you know, I spend every Easter there with my with Travis and my children, you know, I mean, he was a wonderful man. Yeah. Yeah. I love that. I love that you're taking a stance, especially at a time where it's easy to go.

fuck off into the sunset seriously gross gross he did so much for so many women yeah so much and if any of those women were homeless or had a drug addiction he would have he would have housed them taken care of them and gotten them sober well it's disgusting for them to do that yeah i never knew that i never knew that he um rehabbed women like yes he did well numerous

crazy so after you did playboy you're getting stella's getting her groove back yeah yeah yeah take me on this journey just yeah i met travis like very soon after and it was literally like the minute i got over i never really got over i didn't get over oscar for a decade or so but the minute i kind of got past it yeah um i i was out in hollywood and my girlfriend was like i met this guy and his his name's rob skinhead rob from the transplants yeah yeah

Yeah. And she was like, yeah, I met this guy. Like, come with me. Like I was going to be her wingman. I was like, all right. And we went to this, I think it was called like the standard or something on sunset. Oh my God. Yeah. I had a lot of drug nights there. A lot of people did. I think. Fuck. I think I almost died there one night. Oh my God. Cocaine and Xanax is a hell of a fucking binge party. Yeah. That'll do it. That'll do it. Yeah. Yeah. Um, yeah. So I went there and, uh,

And she was with Rob And I think like George Clooney was there that night He was everywhere back then He was fucking everywhere back then Dude he used to I can't even believe I'm gonna say this When I used to work at the Palms He would come and group together All the fucking cocktail waitresses And they would go upstairs and fuck him

Like I was there when it happened. I wasn't in the room, but I was, I was working. Yeah. I was never one of the cocktail waitresses. And he was doing his thing. No, he was George Clooney was the man, dude. Yeah. Like all he had to do was walk by and bitches would pass out. Yeah. Dropping their shorts. He was a fine motherfucker though. He was. Yeah. He was. Yeah. He's still sexy. Where the fuck is he? He got married. Like disappeared. His wife. And yeah, just doing his thing. He's just living the dream. He's living the dream. George go. Yeah.

you know go george go yeah i think i was like talking to him at the bar or something and then you know she introduced me to travis and he had a big mohawk back then and not you know back then no one had mohawks yeah and he was fucking you know he was tatted up pretty not as much now but he was still tatted up pretty pretty uh tight and i was just like i thought this is who the fuck i'm i didn't know who blink 182 was and um and i kind of was like oh i

think it was like with oscar like oh that's who jack and i was like oh didn't they have like little people on the mtv music awards on bungee cords like flying around like that's how i like you know remembered him and um what kind of music did you listen to to not know who blink 182 was i i listened to hip-hop and rap okay gotcha yeah i listened to hip-hop and rap and uh yeah and um

R&B. Gotcha. Yeah, so I had no clue. And I just remember being like, wow, he's really, you know, Oscar's so clean cut and wore suits and shit. He doesn't even have tattoos, does he? Not one tattoo, not one. And I was like, God, this guy's really fucking tattooed. And I was like, all right, I'll be your wingman, you know? And they were like, oh, he's getting a divorce. He's in the middle of a divorce. Oh, I didn't know that Travis was married before. Yeah, he was married to a girl named Melissa. Just a regular. Just a regular girl. Yeah, she's a real estate agent today. Nice person. And I was like, I don't want to fucking...

deal with a guy going through a divorce. Like, Jesus, like, what a mess. I was like, I'll just be your wingman. George, send me a beer, you know? Like, that kind of a thing. Go, George, go. Yeah, and so we just, like, talked, and I remember he called me Oscar. Like, he was like, what up, Oscar? Like, kind of teasing me about Oscar because I was, you know, I was known as Oscar's girlfriend, the gold digger, you know? I was like, aw.

You know, I was like, okay. And I was like, what? And then the next week, cause you know, you would go to the same club every week, every Thursday you went, you know, the same thing. And she was like, I missed that because that's how it was back in the day. Like, yeah, we used to have like wasted space out here. Yeah. You were like Wednesday. We go here every week. You know, that's what you did. And my girlfriend was like, I'm going to go meet Rob again. Like come with me. And I was like, fuck. Okay. And, um, and I guess I'll go, I guess I'll go. So I was like,

yay and so I went and Travis was there again and this time like he like he came up to me and we like I'll never forget it like it was something stupid like I was just like what's your sign like I said it like what's your sign or something like that and we just started talking and then Rob and my girlfriend at the time Natasha we all went to like back to his hotel because he was staying in a hotel to be away from his wife and

Travis's hotel. Yeah, we went to Travis's hotel. We were all just like listening to music and drinking and having fun. And he and I kissed. And I remember like looking like stepping back and being like, what the fuck was that? Like, holy shit. Like, I just met like the love of my life. And I was like, I'm going to have your

I'm gonna have your baby and I just knew it and six months later I got pregnant oh my goodness which I was but I mean and I was so madly I mean even like I never thought I would love again or kind of meet that kind of connection but Travis is

is definitely more the love of my life more way more than oscar what is oscar's sign uh he's an aquarius okay yeah that's crazy aquarius and aries and travis is a scorpio yeah which is crazy to me that but if you have a virgo moon then that makes sense because virgo and scorpio are soulmates i would love to see you guys as charts i'm surprised i'm sure somebody's done them online but um yeah do you feel like you and travis were twin flames oh 100 because you guys had like a

long tumultuous relationship. People don't even realize how long after they're like oh they got a divorce in 2008. I'm like

yeah we lived with each other like a married couple to like almost 2012 yeah yeah people don't know that take me on this journey you and travis kiss what happens after that you guys just instantly like instantly connected and he was touring with the transplants and i would drive to his house like every weekend and we would just see each other as much as possible and i just was i mean we just were together i mean did he love bomb you as much as he loved bombs we were the we

the OG love bomb. I know. I remember. Do you get deja vu, Courtney? Please. Like, I do remember. Watching that was just like, I was like, oh Christ, you know, like this is hard to watch. Well, he definitely has a pattern. You know, it's what I think. I feel like it was a little more acceptable when you guys did it because it felt more real. Yeah. You know, and I'm not talking shit about them. I'm just saying like, you guys did do it first and it was just more accepted back then too. Yeah. And we, you know, we got our, you know, I got pregnant

six months later and Were you guys living together by then? Basically, yeah. I told him on Valentine's Day and and yeah we just we were just it was really one of the happiest times of my life. Yeah and when we had Landon we had Landon and then that's when MTV came to us and asked us if you know the newlyweds were going off and asked us if we wanted to meet the Barkers and back then you know we

reality TV was so new. I mean, you had the Osbournes and you had the newlyweds. That was really it. Yeah. There was no other, you know, that they were the pioneers of reality TV. So that's when we did meet the Barkers and that, you know, that was really our, I watched those episodes now and I didn't like, who are those people?

you know it's like another lifetime ago i watched all all the original reality tv the newlyweds meet the barkers and uh the osbournes loved all of it and i feel like that's when tv was fucking great yeah and because back then it wasn't scripted right i mean they really just had two teams of people following you around with cameras that was your life yeah and you didn't have to get you know legal to say oh you can go eat in that restaurant or you can go into that store people you didn't have to sign their lives away you could just

You just went to that store. I know how TV shows are shot, and I know that they're edited, and there's always a narrative that they want to paint. Exactly. How do you feel about people always saying that, oh, Shayna, all she did was ever lay in bed?

Oh, it's so fucking annoying. It's so fucking annoying because I'm like, what do you guys think? I'm like narcoleptic or something. Like it was supposed to be funny. It was supposed to be like a little, like it was supposed to be entertaining. You know, it was supposed to be like a funny part of it. I mean, that bed looked comfortable as fuck. I love, man, I love my beds. I love,

my beds and I do love sleeping. I do have chronic fatigue. Like I was diagnosed with that when I was like 19. So when I work, when I first start any work schedule, I usually relapse and it's very, very hard for me to like function and get up and, and I, you know, I get real irritable with people, but I, you know, what they don't understand is that I was the one rocking babies all fucking night.

long right so i would travis wasn't he was on tour and he was at the time he also had a pretty heavy pill addiction you know that he's been very open and candid about um i didn't know that at the time i was so naive i didn't even realize it um but you didn't know that he was an addict no no i didn't know at all and what was he taking like laura tabs that was he was taking like darvasets or like like narcos or something yeah something like that like some loved a good norco back in the day yeah i'm like i don't even like i don't

even know you know if I took a nor I'd like throw up now yes I would too but back yeah that's what I used to look for because they had less aspirin in them than the blue pills okay no he was like on him you know he just but that's how he functioned you know and but I would be you know the the cameras would stop rolling they'd leave around 10 o'clock at night and then you know Travis would go to bed but I would have to go put like a Tiana in her bed and I put on like you know a movie and then I would go and like rock land in and mind you I was pregnant and

And then I'd rock Landon and then I'd go lay down with Atiyah until she fell asleep. And then I would go lay down and then one of them would wake up like five minutes later. And then I would go rock the baby and then I would go lay down with her. And then when I had Alabama on the show, well then I had to go put Atiyah down, go rock Alabama, then go rock Landon. So by the time our nanny would come at like eight in the morning and the crew would show up, I was exhausted.

You know? And it was like, I need to sleep. I've been up all night, like, working the graveyard.

Yeah. You know, so I mean, so when people say that all the time, like, oh, you're a deadbeat. I think I did one episode where the nanny came in and I, the nanny stayed the night. Right. And I actually got like, I was like, I need to get like eight hours of sleep, like a solid eight hours of sleep. Like I can't have it broken up every three hours, which you do with the newborn and stuff. And so I had Liz who's still with us to this day. Yeah. She,

came over and they filmed it and they asked her she can't unmute the barkers they filmed her and I said how were they last night you know so all the people

all the people at home thought that I had a fucking nanny the entire time every night. And it was just like one night. And then it's like, I'm a deadbeat mom that never like who slept and never took care of her kids. That's exactly why I wanted to ask that question because I, I know being in the industry and having to film our reality show that we do. Yeah. Fucking, I know exactly that there's always more to the story. Yeah. And I don't think people comprehend people on the other side of the keyboard. Don't comprehend that what you see on TV is completely edited. Yes. It's real.

Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But it's completely chopped up and edited and there's so much shit you don't see. Yeah, to make a storyline, to entertain you, it was supposed to be funny. Yes. But, you know, I honestly think in...

I think the worst thing you can do to a woman is to shit on her as a mother. I think it's really one of the cruelest and most vile things. And I honestly can't imagine going up to a stranger or to a person or going online and saying to someone, "You're a fucking piece of shit mother. "You're a deadbeat mother."

fucking know you from a hole in the wall i can't imagine saying that to a stranger and and saying that to them about you don't know what's going on in someone's home what's going on with their husband and people you know because we had that show they and i know i'm a public person and you know and it's like and you know i put myself in that position but at the same time fuck you

You don't get to do that. This is where I stand up for us and I have been standing up to online bullies and they fucking hate it. Just because we are open online does not give you the right to tear us apart for no fucking reason. They're like, well, you're a celebrity. You should be able to handle it. How about go fuck yourself? You'd never say this to my face. Yeah, exactly. You know, I'd stand up to the bullies and I don't fucking like it. And Instagram is the worst. Like, I can't go live

right now. Oh, get on TikTok, girl. You ain't seen nothing yet. Yeah, yeah. Well, Instagram's like the, well, I mean in the way that they don't defend you. Oh, at all. Like, you know, I told someone to like go fuck themselves or I called them a bitch the other day, you know, shooting on my daughter, like, or shooting on me as a mother or something, you know, and I just was like, bitch, get off my page. Yeah. 30 days. And it's like, and it's just, I know they probably have a computer that's just like, I said the word bitch, so now I can't go live for 30 days. But it's like, did you see the comment? Yeah. That person,

blocked? Is that person you know is there any repercussions for these people's actions for that? Like you know what if I what if I wasn't as strong as I am and I go fucking blow my brains out like you know do you like I don't I don't understand it. It's really you know it's it's but I back to what I was saying I honestly think criticizing women like that especially as a mother is really the grossest and lowest form of harassment you can do to a woman. --I could never go to somebody's page and just say anything mean.

If I don't like you, I don't want to go to your page. Yeah, even if I don't agree with it, I'm just like, eh, and keep scrolling. You know, I don't have to word vomit on this person's page just to make myself feel better. If I don't like something, I don't view it. I don't go to their pages. I scroll on by, you know, like... Absolutely. I don't pay attention to it, but, you know, it's... I mean, people...

And I used to when MySpace was big back in the day. I love MySpace. We never had problems. We had the top fucking eight. We could put music on our profiles. We could design our profiles. It was so amazing. Tom didn't fucking fuck with us. Nobody got violations. Yes. Like bring MySpace back. Please. Tom, where the fuck are you? I think Justin Timberlake bought it. Justin, bring it back. Bring MySpace back.

Tom followed me on fucking TikTok and I was more excited about that than fucking like I matched with him on a dating app. Tom, you dirty boy. Yeah, he was on the league. You only get like three people a day and he's like, yes, it's really me. Oh my God. That is so funny. We never talk. We never talk.

Like, is this really the Tom? Oh, my God. That's weird. I would love to see Tom in person. I got to get Tom on the podcast. All right. So moving back to Meet the Barkers, is that kind of where you guys' relationship started falling apart a little bit? A little bit. Towards like the end of the season, I think what really happened or really started to affect our relationship, which is the irony.

to this day for me is he didn't want to be known as like a couple or a reality star. He wanted to be known as a musician, which I understand. And I respected 1000%, you know, and you know, back then I was like, you know, I, I want to do all the things that you see reality stars doing now. Like I wanted to start a clothing line and a brand. And he was just so, um,

against all of it. Like he was so punk rock and that was so against like what he had famous stars and straps. Yeah, he did. But that was, but that was, yeah, straps, famous stars and straps, but that was like its own company. He wasn't using the TV show. He had already created that, you know, um, he wasn't an opportunist with the TV show. And, um, and, uh,

And so, you know, we kind of put an end to it. Isn't that the point of having a reality show, though? To capitalize off? To capitalize? And I'm not talking shit. I'm just saying, like, I would think that you would want to capitalize off whatever you could, especially with the attention that you guys were getting. Yeah, and I just think for him, you know, he was the star. And I think when it became about us, like, as a couple, and I wanted to be, like, a power couple, you know, and he didn't want that. He wanted to, like, you know...

I think he was used to being the man in the center and the musician and he wanted to be known and taken seriously as a serious musician and that I could respect. But that's kind of like where it started to decline. When did the affair with Kim Kardashian start?

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It started after the affair with Paris Hilton. Oh, okay. Yeah. And, um, here comes Paris again. Yeah. There comes Paris. And I had already got like, mind you in that club, I had gotten Paris Hilton's face, you know, like when, when Oscar and I were having a conversation, she bippity bopped in and I was like, aren't you fucking this one here? Aren't you fucking this one? And she was like, I don't even know him. I'm like, yeah, you do. And so she leaves and you know, he and I continued arguing Oscar and I, and I left. So she and I had already had words like that night. And then, um, uh,

yeah, I don't, I, I don't know. Um, he and I were arguing and we kind of like separated, but we were still living in the same house. How did you know he was having an affair with Paris? Uh, they caught him like making out on camera and it was like all over TMZ and everything. And I was just like, wow. I feel like back then Paris was the party girl and I don't feel like she really even knew what the fuck was going on. Cause I, I had met Paris a few times out here and every time I met her, she was sloshed. Yeah. And I'm not making excuses for her.

No, not at all. We were all partying and fucking doing our own thing. 100%. She was a kid. Yeah. I mean, and I was a kid. I mean, I was probably 26, 27, and she was, I think, like 17 years old or something. Yeah, she was young, too. Yeah, she was young. A lot of these men had taken advantage of her, too. Absolutely. I would agree with that 100%. Yeah. Yeah, 100%. But yeah, I remember this is the big incident with her. We...

I was doing Dancing with the Stars, and I think Bama was like six months old. And the dancers back then, you know, all the famous ones now couldn't get into the clubs, and they needed me to get them into the clubs. So we went over, there was like Hyde on Sunset, and then there was this other club. God, I remember Hyde. Yeah, yeah, awful. And...

I was just there for the first time since this incident, like last week for Jason Momoa's vodka launch party. Not for him, but for his vodka. I was like, nice. He was there, but I've known him since he was 19, but like... And you guys never hooked up? No, no, no, no, no, no. I've known him since he was like... He's single now. Since he was a model. I mean...

he's cute yeah he was like young Elvis when you know when he first moved to LA it was like a model and stuff but yeah anyway um but uh yeah so we were I was at this one club and my girlfriend came up to me she was actually at that party and she was like you you need to leave and she was like mind you I'm married to Travis and she was like um Travis and Paris are coming in like you need to leave and I was like

And so were you guys weren't split at the time? We were separated. He was like, I think doing the whole hotel thing, you know, when I was at the house with the baby. And I only, I wasn't going to go out that night. I just went to get those other dancers, those kids into the club. And, um, and so when I went down, so I went down to hide and, um,

And I was just like doing my thing. And, um, and Cheryl Burke, I'll never forget this came in and was like, Paris is here. And I was like, why is she here? She was just making out with my husband at the fucking bar down the road, you know? And, um,

And then I was like, you know what? I'm just going to leave. I'm going home. Like, I can't. I got to get the fuck out of here. You know, it's humiliating to be asked to leave. And then, you know, this, you know, whatever. And and there she was with Stavros. She was making out with Stavros. She was with him. Yeah. Yeah. She was making out with him. And I was like, I have a fucking six month old at home and I have a fucking like two year old and a five year old kid. And you are fucking making out with my husband.

and now you're making out with this dude. You don't even love my husband. You're destroying my family and you don't even fucking love him. It's not even like this is your soulmate or you think you're gonna have something with him. - And I'm sure you were really hurt, dude. - I was destroyed, I was destroyed. And I went up to her and I was like, "You're a real fucking bitch." And she looked at me and she went, "You're a," she used her voice, you know her voice that she does? And she went, "You're a fucking bitch." And I just went,

went at it and um you punched her in the jaw right yeah and I was allegedly allegedly yeah and I was about to go at it and Stavros fucking shoved me um down like if the staircase and if like there weren't people coming up the staircase I probably would have rolled down the stairs and fucking died and then um yeah and he came up to me and he got in my face he poured a drink on my head he got in my he had like my wrist and was like bending it back and I need him in the in the nuts to get him like away from me

and Sam, the owner and stuff, they were all yelling at me and they basically shoved me out the door, the front door to the paparazzi. And that's what all that footage is, if you Google, it's terrible. And I had to walk from that fucking bar down to the other bar to go get my car. - While paparazzi's calling you. - Yeah, the paparazzi was chasing me, it was terrible. So that was kind of like the end of it all.

but and then he went to Paris which is in his book it's kind of like and he was with Paris and at the time I guess he was talking to Kim too I don't know I think that's when they first started talking as friends and

And he came back. He got flown back from tour because he was so fucked up on drugs. And I got him sober. And I remember telling like his friend little. So even after all of this, even after, you know, the situation with Paris and stuff like that. And then, you know, knowing about the Kim situation. I didn't know about Kim at that point. You didn't know about. OK, gotcha. He still came back to you. He came back. Yeah. Hey, I really need help. I have a problem. And I helped him.

And I told little Chris, I was like, you in Paris was still trying to call him. I was like, like, I was like, look at your fucking friend right now. Look at him. That's, that's what you do to your friend. Don't bring another fucking drug into this house. Right. Don't you do it? You know? And, um,

It was like some Johnny Cash type shit. You know, like, I mean, I was egging people's cars and stuff. Like, you know, like... Whose cars did you egg? His man, like his assistant, you know, trying to pick him up to take him out to meet bitches and give him drugs, you know. Everyone wanted to be a rock star. They all wanted, you know, they needed him to go party and drink and meet bitches and feel cool. Right. You know, but he had a family and, you know, like... You were trying to help him heal. You know, trying to, yeah, so...

And we got back together and we were trying to heal over that. I actually helped create the girls line of Famous Stars and Straps. And I did all the campaigns and I got all my playmate friends and, you know, Adrian Curry and Tiffany John. Tiffany. Yeah, I think Johnson to model, you know, big models and stuff. And I did all the women's line and stuff. And then that's when Kim came in.

and she was just starting. They didn't have their show or anything yet. Kim was best friends with Paris. With Paris, yeah. It was like the two of them had like a who can we fuck competition in LA. You know, like, whose husband can we fuck? You know, like...

It was pretty crazy. I mean, they really did. It was like wild. Yeah. That's why today when they have issues now, I'm like, oh, you know. And I always say this. Well, life always comes back around. It always, yeah. And like I said, and I'm not defending their actions. Yeah. They were so young. They were. And I mean, I've done shit that I fucking completely regret that I did in my 20s. Now that I'm in my 40s, I'm like, why did I do

I do that. Yeah. Yeah. For me, it's like, Hey, you did what you did. You know, at least just say sorry. Yeah. Yeah. That's fine. But it's like, you know, don't be shocked when you, you know, when you, when you deal with an angry wife. Yeah. Is that tick tock sound? You're shocked. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

- So Kim came in and then what happened there? - So she shot for Famous Stars and Straps and this was the first time that he handled the shoot. - Gotcha. - Mind you, she's wearing the stuff I designed. And I was just like, why is this girl on your, 'cause I associated her with Paris and I was like, why is this girl on your computer? What's going on? And he was like, oh, I just, she's up and coming and I just wanted to get involved and stuff and I knew things were getting weird. And at that time we were still kind of working on things

And I had a house in the same neighborhood. And so we would like going back and forth to each other's homes and someone anonymously and randomly texts me their conversations. And I'm pretty sure it was Paris.

I'm pretty sure. As far as I don't know. Wow. So somebody just texts you from a random number and it's screenshots? Yeah, of all Travis and Kim's conversations. And what were those like? They were trying to meet up at her sister's house to fuck. Which sister? I don't know. Oh. I don't know. Wouldn't that be crazy if it was Courtney? Yeah, I know. I know. I think Courtney...

How would that person have gotten those screenshots? That's crazy. Someone got in her phone for sure. Wow. And I remember I went to the house and I showed them to him and I was bawling. I was just so... I was just fucking broken. It's exhausting. I've been in relationships like that and it's like... It just tears you down as a human and as a woman. You just... Your self-esteem is just shot at this point. I just... And I wanted... I wanted...

I felt like such a failure with Oscar. I wanted this relationship to work. And we did get married and we had a successful TV show and I was so in love with him and so happy. And I wanted to have what my parents had for my children. I wanted my children to see their mother and father in love and to walk in on them dancing and have what I had. And I just knew I wasn't gonna be able to give my children that at that moment. And I showed him the text messages and he deleted them. And so I said, "I don't see anything." And I was like, "We're gonna do this."

Like we're gonna do this. - Wow. - Wow. - I mean that's the biggest admission of guilt. - Yeah, just like, and then she called, I called her, we had words, and she just said to me that she didn't like white guys, she only dated black guys, and I was like, Kim,

you'll fuck anyone to be famous like you really will and you fucked you know that little singer boy and you you know and you you fuck the instinct kid you fuck the instinct kid you know or whatever which instinct kid i think she she was with um i don't know all their names yeah um you can google it yeah it's out there yeah yeah for sure it's definitely out there but i was like you'll fuck anyone to be famous you know because they didn't have their show yet and then they just got their show

And then Travis and I really never really recovered from that. Yeah. Well, it's hard because that was multiple times. And just as a woman, it's like your self pride and your dignity. I felt stupid. I was like, you're just making me look dumb, you know, like over and over, you know, over and over. So I filed for divorce. What year is this? 2008.

2008. So you file for divorce from Travis. Take me on this. You're starting over again, but this time you've got three babies. Yes, we're starting over again. I go back to my house. He gets into a plane crash. And well, we actually started working on things again.

We started talking. This is where the twin flame thing comes in. Yeah, we started working on things again. And I guess things, you know, according to his book, everyone can read it, you know, they decided that, you know, they would just be friends. But, you know, I think there's a lot more going on there. But I mean, if you read his book, when people read his book, you know, there's TikToks and stuff about it too. And I'm like,

He was fucking married. Like, you know, I mean, I caught him with like Lindsay Lohan, Kimberly Stewart, Tara Conner, fucking Paris Kim. Like, you know, he, you know, he was living the rock star, living the rock star life, you know? So, um, but he, you know, we always came back to each other and that's why I always say twin flames. Cause no matter what you guys went through, you guys always came back. Yeah. Do you think that he'll come back again if things don't work out with him and Courtney?

know you know would you let him come back I don't know I read people ask me that you know I'll always love him I'll always love him immensely and deeply and and I'm not bitter or jealous I don't know him anymore right I really don't I don't I don't know him as a human being anymore at all so if I ever did hang out with him I would have to relearn him relearn him and and get to know him as just a friend first and as a person you know but I'm as the father of my children and as just as someone that I

I look back fondly on some of the most amazing memories of my life. I'll always love him for sure. Yeah. So he gets in this plane crash. Yeah. Which was a brutal plane crash. I was at the house. We were together at that time. So this is after you filed for divorce. Yeah. After, yeah, we're not, but we're now we're rekindling. We were talking about getting remarried and, uh, and, um, he, uh,

uh he it was he had just finished tour and he had to go do this uh show with djam um in north carolina and he uh he didn't want to go they got a private jet and he was like you know mama like this is this jet is really little and i was like you know and he wanted me to go on it and i and i had this really weird feeling in the kitchen and i it was so strange and um

And I remember going, if we both die, who's gonna take care of my kids? I remember just having that thought. And I was like, my mom and dad are too old, and his mom and dad are too old, and who's gonna raise my children? His sister? What's gonna happen? And I just said, honey, I don't wanna go. I think I should stay back with the kids. And I was like, you know,

you're going to want to go play and come home and I'm going to want to go and party, you know, and you're not going to want to, and it's going to be a big fight. And, and, uh, I was like, just go and come back and like, like, like, like start our life together, you know?

And he was like, okay. But he took the plane there and he did the show and he wanted to get back and DJ AM and then had another show and he was supposed to stay another night and fly home commercially. But DJ AM wanted to come back for a gig and so they voted on getting this plane, basically. And he was like, I'm going to come home early. And I remember when he got there, he was like, honey, I have a really bad feeling about this plane. And I was like, you say that about every plane. We both say this about every, yesterday I flew. That's how I am every time we're about to get on a flight. I'm like, what?

I was the same way yesterday. Like I was like about to cry on the plane. I was, I sat next to a pilot and he like, until Dita Von Deese showed up. And I was like, we're both like, we're both not going down Dita. Not, not today. The gothic angel arrived. Yes. Yeah. Dita the angel, the airline angel arrived. But, um, yeah, so he, uh, it was so weird because I felt like he, he called me 15 minutes later after the plane crashed. And, um,

And I felt like they just landed. I don't know how to explain it to you. It felt like hours went by and they like and I in Alabama was in the bed and it was so weird. Alabama sat up and she went, Mommy, where's little Chris? And I went, where's little Chris? I was like, little Chris is with daddy, honey, like lay down, go back to sleep. And I was watching a movie and I got a call and it was a pair paramedic or police officer. And he was like, man, is this Shane Moakler? And I was like, yeah. And he's like, there's been a terrible plane crash.

And I said, and I thought they were fucking around, like joking. And I was like, that's not funny. You know, like, I don't think that's a funny joke. And he's like, no, ma'am, there's been a bad accident. And I was like, guys, it's not it's not funny. And he goes, ma'am, I am deputy blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And there's been a horrible plane accident. You need to listen to me. And then I heard Travis screaming.

and, and, uh, he was screaming, I'm on fire, I'm on fire, and, uh, and he's like, we need to airlift him to the Atlanta something, and he didn't, and he didn't want to, and then I talked to him, and he was like, they're all gone, like, little Chris is gone, they're gone, and, and, um,

And he didn't want to get on another, like an airlift. So they don't blame him. So they drove him, you know, I mean, and he was burned on like 70% of his body. And, uh, and I, um, I think I packed like a shoe and a remote control and a battery and I fucking flew to North Carolina. So out of it. And, um, and I was with him for the first like three, four weeks, um, there. And, um,

in, in Atlanta. And then we took a tour bus back from Atlanta to the, um, burn center in Los Angeles. And, uh, and I was there with him there for the first like two, three weeks. And this is where it went bad. Um, we got his computer to, uh, I've never shared this with anyone before. Uh, so it was kind of crazy. Uh, I got his computer and, uh,

And we were doing it so the kids could FaceTime him because, mind you, the kids hadn't seen their dad now for almost a month and a half. And we were hoping that him seeing the kids would also give him the strength to keep fighting. Right. Was he fighting, like, infection and stuff like that? He didn't have infections, but just the pain. Gotcha. Just what they had to do and what he had to endure and the surgeries and the removal of skin. It was really fucking horrible.

horrifying. I wouldn't have lived and I was supposed to be on that plane you know I would have and we definitely wouldn't have lived because there were four guys and we would have let them have the back of the plane and Travis and I probably would have sat in the front and we wouldn't have had our seatbelts on and we would have we would have died for sure so

Yeah, I always think about that. But when I was setting up his computer and he FaceTimed with the kids, but he was getting a blood transfusion and I looked in his email and I saw all the emails from all the women. Oh, goodness. And I just like and that didn't bother me as much as back then you had to to.

When you went to TMZ and you wrote a comment, right? What TMZ will do, you write a comment and then they'll email you a link and you have to click the link to approve the comment. You can write, you know, Bob or Cindy Lou or whatever you want, but you have to still have to send it to an email and then you have to click the link and then TMZ will approve it. And I saw all these comments in his email.

that he was posting about me on TMZ about what a shitty mother I was and Chris, little Chris, about what a shitty mother I was and what a terrible person I was. And I had even read some of them and I couldn't fucking believe that he was the one behind some of those comments. Wow. And I left the hospital.

It'll make me like cry. I love the hospital. That's so hurtful. Yeah. And I went home and I cried in my mother's arms for like hours. It was terrible. I was like, it's terrible. And so that's when I was like, this is a man that you love that you're like by his side. Like, you know, like I flew to be by his side and I, and I just fucking was like, I can't go back. And I called his drum tech and the godfather of our children. I was like,

I'm not coming back to the hospital. And I'm like, and this is why. And I need to like, we're, I need to figure some shit out. And, and, and I granted looking back now, I, I,

probably should have just fucking ate or licked my wounds and been by his side while he was still recovering from that. But at that time I felt like he, there was only like two people allowed into the room and he was in LA and he had his father and his sisters and he had a huge, hundreds of people were going to the hospital and visiting him every day and I felt like he had a good support system. And for me, I just was like destroyed.

- Do you feel like he held that against you? And that was kind of like ammo for his arsenal? - Later on, for sure, yeah. And so I just was going out getting drunk, and I think they took pictures of me with like, I was friends with Gerard Butler, I had known him since I was like 20, and now I'm like, I guess I'm like 34 at this point.

And I saw him at a club and the paparazzi took pictures of us and they made it seem like I was kissing him and stuff, but I wasn't. And then Travis saw that and then we just like never really recovered. It's crazy when they can do it, but if you do it, it's like, that's all men are.

I'm sorry that you went through that and that's very hurtful. And I don't think that you should have had to have licked your wounds. And, you know, I understand most women would be like, well, she should have, or most people would have been like, oh, she should have sucked it up. No. When you've already been through so much hurt with somebody, there's always that one thing that happens that,

literally breaks the straw of a camel's back. Yeah. That's how I am in relationships. Like I'll give and I'll give and I'll give. Yeah. And then if something happened, it could be the fucking smallest thing, which that was a big thing for you, but it could be the smallest thing. And I'll be like, I'll never talk to this person again. Yeah, exactly. You know? Yeah. Well, we ended up talking. Yeah, I know. You guys are just like, yeah,

It's just because you guys really loved each other. Yeah, we did. And I really feel like we could always feel the chemistry between Travis and you. Like, it was just real. It was. I feel like you and Travis are going... Both of you are going to be searching for that connection that you guys have for the rest of your lives. Whether you guys... I am. I'm still searching for it. Yeah. Yeah, I'm single, so... Yeah. I mean, but men are men. And, you know, him and his other situation could be very happy and, you know, whatever. But...

It's just when you have a love like that with somebody, it's very hard to ever... Yes, for sure. Yeah. It's a once-in-a-lifetime kind of a thing. Yeah, absolutely. So even after he hurt you, you still went back. We got back together, and I'll never forget. It was the first... He got out of the hospital, but he was still like...

a lot of medications and very instill healing and he wanted to go to a restaurant and I said okay and I remember watching him it was the first time I had seen him since I stopped going to the hospital

and he got out of the car, and he grabbed Alabama, and he took her out of the car, and he looked fucked up. Like, he just looked like he has been through it. You know, he had, like, a beard and, you know, and I remember him grabbing our daughter, and I just was like, that's it. I'm done. Like, I'm going to heal this family. I'm going to heal this marriage. I'm going to let all this shit go and all this hurt and this pain and these affairs and everything, and I'm going to love this man, and I'm going to make this family right.

And that's what I tried to do. I, I like cooked for him and I helped give his medications and I wiped his balls and I changed his dressings and I was there for him, you know? And, and he just was like,

because of the Gerard Butler that I like cheated on him. You know, I was convinced that I did that. Stop being a Scorpio, Travis. Yeah, like just convinced. And he just like, you know, and we were trying to date again, but we just like. There was just so much water. There was just so much and we just couldn't, we just, we couldn't do it. And, but we, we ended up living together, you know, and like. Was it just as friends? Were you guys still fucking? Yeah, we were co-parents.

you know, like, but were you guys still banging and like, no, but we were just so in love with each other, but couldn't, just didn't want to let go. Didn't know how to do it.

And we wanted to be there for our kids, and so we lived together, like a couple, I think, 'til almost 2014. - Wow. - And then 'til I met my ex-boyfriend Brian, who's a Hells Angel, and then I got kind of serious with him, and then I was like, "Okay, I don't think we should be living together anymore. "We're not together, you don't wanna work on this."

I can't be living with you. You should have your days and I should have my days. And we did what was like a nesting agreement where...

At first, we lived together all the time. And then we did where the kids stayed in one house. And then I would go to the house Monday to Wednesday. And then he would go to the house Wednesday to Sunday. But the kids would stay in the same place. And we would go from our houses to that one house. I love how the kids were always the focal point, though. For sure. Always. Whatever happened. No matter what we've been through, we're going to try to fucking make this work. I mean, that was the one thing. And to this day, it's the one thing that he and I agree on is our kids and just trying to give them the best life possible. Yeah.

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So you move on, he moves on. Yeah. Is it over from there? So from 2014? Yeah, it's over. I mean, I stopped talking to him about around 2014. We didn't. And we started following each other right before he and Courtney. I don't know how long they've been together. Maybe two or three years. I'm not sure. And then when he got with Courtney, we stopped even just being cordial. We co-parent, you know, if there's some. I mean, my oldest daughter is 24. She doesn't.

People still shit on me to this day. Raise your kids. I'm like, I have a grown adult. My daughter is 24 years old. She's a young adult. I don't need to rear her anymore. You want me to change her fucking diapers? You're like, I already had a baby. My son is 20 years old. I'm like, he's living with his girlfriend. What do you want me to do? Go over to the house? What a handsome kid. They're both just so cute. All of them are so beautiful. Thank you so much. I'm really proud of them. He's so talented. They're all talented, but

And then Alabama, she's going to be 18, you know, on Christmas Eve this month. So it's like, she is your fucking twin. Yeah. She's in, in internally too. She's like me, you know, she's, she has that tenacity and doesn't give a fuck and just is so ambitious. And like, you know, people hate on her. I mean, you want to talk about bullying a fucking kid. That kid has got it since she was 12. And,

She does not care. Yeah. I mean, she's been raised in it. Yeah. So it's like it's probably second skin to her, you know? Yeah. Yeah. But still, no child deserves to be bullied like that. No. No child. Yeah. Ever. Yeah. How does it make you feel whenever they did take to like public platforms and kind of talk shit about how you didn't raise them and stuff like that? Were you guys just in a heated argument and it was kid shit or? I feel at the time when Travis got with Courtney, there was like some parental alienation going on.

on there where you have to understand too, Travis, even when we weren't together, always wanted to be the super dad. I'm the best parent, I'm the this and that. And I'm like, bro, you win. You're the winner here. You have all the money and you have all the this. You're the winner. Give the drummer some. You win. I'm not competing with you.

But I think, you know, when the Kardashians first came around, they were enamored just as like young kids would be enamored by them. And I think there was a lot of glitter and fame and, you know, they watched them on TV and now their dad's dating one and they're going to be on the show. And, you know, and I think they got caught up in that, you know, which young kids would do.

And, you know, they're buying them Prada and they're buying them gifts and they're going to these events and they're meeting Kanye and they're, you know, all this big stuff. And I can't give them that. I don't have that. I don't have access to that. I don't have the money to do that. I can't buy you guys Prada every, you know, other week and stuff. I don't, I can't do it. And my house isn't a mansion like Travis. I don't have a movie theater. I don't have golf carts for kids to drive around. Yeah. You know, he's everything, you know? And, um,

And so I think comments were made and I think they were influenced and it was hurtful. And it was, you know, and it was like, you know, and I've had conversations with them since and they, you know, they've apologized, but I'm not going to take one comment that my angry teenage kid says to me. And now all of a sudden, 24 hours, I'm a fucking deadbeat mom. No, like they all know I'm

not we all know the truth I go to bed at night I sleep very very well with who I am as a woman and as a mother and how I raised my children and you know and and I think now as time's marching on I think they're seeing things and they're realizing and as they become young adults they're like

Yeah. They see, they see through things that they didn't before. Yeah. No, I get it. Teenagers will be teenagers. I went through it with our daughter who's going to be 16. Yeah. Yeah. You know, she, she was like, yeah, we went through a rough patch this last summer and it's like, that's just how kids are. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, what fucking teenage girl gets along with their mom? Yeah. Yeah. You know, very rarely. Yeah.

- Very, very rarely. And at one point I just was like, you know what? The difference between a lot of people is that shit was all getting played out in the press with one of the biggest, most powerful families in the world. And they're a media machine. They own the fucking media. I don't, so I just got fucking hammered and bullied and over my fucking kids. Who does that? Who does that to someone with their own children?

Fuck you, that family. You're disgusting. So they haven't ever been welcoming to you? No, and I would never, ever want to know them. Ever. And I'm tired of people shitting on me. I don't have to like that fucking family. People do not have to like that family. Just because the media shoves them down your throat does not mean that you have to like that family. There are people that don't like that family, don't watch that fucking show, and don't give a fuck what Kim Kardashian's doing with her ass.

There are people that don't care. I don't fucking care. And I'm not afraid of them. And I don't like them. But what I did do is I removed myself. I removed myself so that they couldn't let my, they couldn't bond with my children over hating me. And I removed myself and I took a step back and I was like, you know what?

Go do what you guys need to do. And when you're ready, I will be here loving you unconditionally. And I will be here as your mother and I will wait. And that's what I did. That's what a real mom does. Yeah. You got to let your kids kind of fall and, um, you know, figure it out for themselves because in the end they'll respect you more than trying to control the narrative. Exactly. Yeah. You know, so yeah. Good. So you're, you're, so everybody, the relationship is great. They're doing good. Yes. They're doing good. And, uh,

Everything, you know, this year, like I said, has been a little rocky for me with the loss of my parents. And, you know, and I had another pretty bad breakup. Yeah, let's move on to that. So Matthew, you're talking about Matthew, right? Yeah, Matthew. Yeah, that was a public breakup also. That was a public breakup too. You guys were together for? Three years, almost three years, yeah. Yeah, and I love him. I love him very much. Yeah. Yeah, I'll always really care and love him.

We quarantined together and there's something about when you quarantine with someone. I was watching your stories during quarantine. Oh God, we were so drunk. We just talked actually last night and we were laughing about quarantine. We were like, wow, we really did the damn thing.

So are you guys friends now? Because I do know. We're working on being friends. It's probably got to be hard to get back with somebody who has slandered you in the public eye the way that he did too. Yeah. It's like you can't trust somebody like that. I'm just so used to being slandered at this point by everybody. You poor mama. I'm like, whatever.

You're like, who else wants to shit on me? Let's go. Let's go. You know? So, yeah. Yeah. So you guys split and you guys are definitely just not. Yeah. He's on the East Coast and I'm on the West Coast. And, you know, I don't know what I'm doing in life right now. I'm just kind of like floating and kind of just putting my my.

my journey in the hands of God and in the universe because I've just, I've suffered so much loss this year that I really don't know. And I really don't even career wise. I don't even know what I want to do. And I'm not, I'm not stressing myself out about it. I'm just kind of allowing myself grace and to heal, you know?

you know you deserve a break thanks you have been going at it since you were a teenager you know pageants pregnancy divorces drama like you spent a ride you probably need to take

two years of just peace and healing and sitting, be still. - Yeah, you know, I get a lot of, my fan base is a lot of women who are divorced and single or going through breakups and they ask me like, how do you do it? How do you, you know, and it's like, you just gotta feel it. You just gotta feel that pain and you gotta feel that hurt and it's not fun and it's uncomfortable and you know, I tell some of my fans like, you know, some days I get up and I make a coffee and that's a good day.

You know, that's a good day. I got up and, you know, I was able to do that for myself. You know, so now it's like, that's all I'm doing is I'm just trying to like, just heal. You have a lot of hurt and I can see it in your eyes whenever you talk about it. Do you do therapy? Have you considered going to therapy? No, I don't like, I don't like therapy. I don't like it, but I, um,

I definitely am doing the self work and you know, the shadow, the shadow work, the shadow work. I definitely do do that. I mean, I do a lot of meditations. Meditation saves me. Yeah. Yeah. I do lots of visualization and meditations. I do a lot of journaling. I do, I do a lot of,

like you know self-centering work and and I know I'll get through it I'll overcome it but I think with the losing my mother and father that was like my that's where I went to heal you know that's where I went and so I have to kind of learn how to heal without that and that in itself is its own journey I feel like you are always there for everybody else and who's ever there for yeah it's okay

but it's not like it. And like, you know, we can laugh about it and smile through our pain, but at the same time, it's like, you deserve to be able to just take time off and just, you know, fall in love with yourself and like, just trucking do what you got to do to fucking just, yeah. At this point you've raised your babies. Exactly. You're good. Like you've done the mom shit. You've done the acting, you've done everything. And I still have, you know, I,

still believe in love and I still have hope like you know I I think there is that person like out there for me and Mary I love marriage but I I definitely know that I don't want to go into another relationship broken I want to be like healed and I want to you know you know the next relationship I do get into I want it to be one where I understand boundaries and I understand communication and all that stuff and and break this that that sort of narcissistic cycle

Yeah. You know, you sweet baby. Well, Shana, it has been amazing talking to you. Thank you so much. You have such a great story, dude. Thank you. Thank you. I feel like, like we're best friends now. Yeah, absolutely.

like we've had moments before I even met you but you just you give that energy too I love that yeah it's awesome I appreciate that and I want you to come back come back and visit me and sit on this podcast and talk about whatever you want I'm excited to see what you do next and thank you thank you you know like you're just you're a precious commodity to the world and I want you to know that thank you

Why don't you tell everybody where they can find you at? Yeah, you can find me pretty much on all social media platforms. It's just my name. So at Shana Mochler on Instagram and wait, we forgot to talk about one thing. Okay. You have an only fans. I do have an only fans. We got to make mama money. Yeah. Go visit my only fans. Yeah. Yeah. I, I love it. I don't do anything like a pornographic. I don't like, I don't,

I don't masturbate. But God, if you did, you would probably, I made my, I made millions on OF. I could only imagine if you fucking went down that road. Would you ever go down that road? Or no? No, no, I don't think it's like for me, but I, I do like what I basically like playboy style stuff. You know, I do like customs, you know, and things like that, but I don't, um, I don't get too crazy on there, but I have a lot of fun and I chat and talk and, um, yeah, I have a, I have a lot of fun on there.

Right, good. But, you know, and I think OnlyFans isn't as taboo as it used to be, especially with OnlyFans TV. I do pageant stuff on OnlyFans TV, you know, so. Yeah. You know, I'm teaching girls like interview skills on there, so. I love it. Yeah, it's cool. I just had to make sure that we shout out the OnlyFans. Thank you, yes, and yeah, you can go to my OnlyFans. It's Shayna Mokler, OnlyFans.com at Shayna Mokler. And my Instagram's at Shayna Mokler. My Twitter thread's

everything we got to get you on tiktok you need to be more active on tiktok i just am starting so i would love to learn we got you from you guys yeah please teach me like what works because i do not know and i'm not even verified on there i don't even know oh you will once you start getting more active and getting more views they'll verify you for sure there's no reason why they wouldn't verify you okay cool okay i'm like but i'm learning and bam it just like laughs at me i'm like how do i do this just be yourself

Yeah. Literally, that's exactly what Bama does. She just gets on there and does her makeup thing. Yeah. I'm going to try. I'm going to do a live on there this month since I can't do one on Instagram. So I'm going to do a live on there. Start moving your Instagram over to TikTok. OK. Like they all talk to themselves. But TikTok is sure it'll grow your business tenfold. Oh, yeah. You guys have masters have to teach. Teach me. Teach me. We got you, baby. Thank you so much for coming by. Thank you for having me. I really appreciate it.

Thank you guys for tuning in to another episode of Dumb Blonde. I will see you guys next week. Bye.