2025 NFL Draft Big Board Battle & Deion Sanders talks advising Shedeur, Travis Hunter & Shilo
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On this episode of Football 301, Charles McDonald, Mr. Vertz, joins me for a big board off. We have our top 75 big boards up on Yahoo. We take a look at them where we have differences, similarities, some new players that we want to talk about. And at the end of the show, Charles sits down with Coach Prime, Deion Sanders, head coach of Colorado. Nice little chat with him. Super fun show. See you guys in a sec.

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Learn more and get yours now at NewBalance.com slash football. Hello and welcome to Football 301. I'm your host, Nate Tice. Big board day. Yes, we have updated our top 75 big boards. Bumping it up from top 50 because we're getting closer and closer to the draft.

I have updated it on Yahoo. And also, the other person that updated their big board on Yahoo, my guy, Mr. Vertz, Charles McDonald, who's joining me today to go over our big boards to compare them to have a big board off, which is one of my favorite things that we do. But Charles, Mr. Vertz, how are you doing today? Great to see you. Man, I'm...

I'm here. I don't have many strands left, I got to be honest with you. But it's a fun time of year. We were just talking before the show that this has probably been the busiest stretch of work that we've had in a little bit. For me, I guess probably since I got back from the Combine.

This has probably been the busiest work stretch because Charles Robinson and I have been working on all juice team, which we'll talk about a little bit today. We've got our top 75 big boards. And the thing is, like, if you're going to do it right, it actually takes quite a bit of time. So when you're on these final stretches where you got to,

Look at it and you want undeniably tinker with some of your eight games and you're watching guys like you It could literally become an all-day thing which it did the past couple days So I looked in the mirror today and I was like wow, that's not good I'm going to see my family this weekend and I know I'm gonna get some jokes about the bags over my eyes But we are at the finish line these big words. Yeah, there's 75 names. They're locked and loaded and

And you know, it's a big day for Charles. You know, it's a big board day or a big board week when he's drinking coffee. When Charles says, I'm brewing some coffee. Are you just coffee, not espresso or anything? Just straight coffee? Just coffee, yeah.

yeah black coffee yeah you're that's how i drink it too i go espresso because i'm i mean i like to streamline it even more like do instead of having a beer just do shots of tequila you know that's me drinking coffee i just want to feel the effect so let's get to that point but no way it's so much fun doing these big boards it really is it is a time consuming process because you can't help yourself sometimes too there's so many threads you pull on there's a new guy you watch and then you're like

I really like him. Wait, do I like him more than this guy? Hold on, let me check again. So then you go back and watch a guy that you've watched five games already. And you're already like, no, I got, I got to make sure and watch one more game just to, just to make sure this big board's all right. But at the end of the day, it's so funny how this last hour goes, maybe before I'm like, you know what? Screw it. This is it. Just finality with it. Just get it out there because I just want to get my hands clean and just go and talk about it. But it's a really fun class.

than as much about what is at the top. But I think what is cool about this class is there's a lot of talent between maybe that pick 15 and pick 50. And there's a lot of guys that are kind of juicy in that area that are going to be good starters, maybe even ascend beyond that. So that's going to be a lot of fun to talk to you with you, Charles, about what you had. And also, Charles, talk to somebody else. And that's Coach Prime, Deion Sanders. Chuck, Mr. Vertz did a nice little interview with Coach Prime. That'll be at the end of the show after we have our little big board off. So

But before we get to that, let's get to the big board off. I mean, let's do it. First, we're going to start with maybe some differences between our big boards. Look at the Excel sheet. You know, kind of find some little discrepancies between our rankings. A lot of similar names. I'm going to start out with actually a player that you and I are both high on, but you're a little bit higher. And this was my mid-season number one player, and I just kind of keep slowly dropping them. I'm like...

I don't even feel like when I see the number 13 in writing, I'm like, oh, that might be a little low, but that's Will Johnson corner from Michigan. Charles, you have them at number six. I have them at number 13 and really 13 to eight. It's kind of the same tier for me above this group of guys. I couldn't figure it out. So with tiebreakers, I go with position stuff, but this is a good player. Bounce some injuries this year. Charles,

Why did you stay steady on Johnson? How did you end up keeping him at number six as really a legitimate blue chip player in this class? Yeah, I did. I did have him at number two before when we did the first one. I ended up knocking him down because you brought I think you brought up a good point with the long speed. It's a it is a little concerning with him. But all in all, man, I just think.

When he's at his best, like that is a truly just flat out dominant playoff.

on the outside, which is something that every NFL team is looking for. It's one of the most coveted assets that you can find on a football field. I think we're going to see over the next few years, we just saw Derek Singley get paid. We've seen Passer Tan get paid. As more of those guys who are like real blue chip corners, I think we're going to see some of those salaries even.

even out so uh just having someone like that on your defense who at his best i think can be you know one of those eraser types against uh x receivers i i still just can't let go of that potential for him so i i still got him at six i think the speed concerns are fair so i dropped them a bit and obviously uh you know i think people are a little concerned about maybe him checking out on last season when things weren't going well but i just think the talent here is just immense

Yeah, he's kind of the him and then the next guy who I have at 14, which is Tyler Warren. They're kind of the cutoff of my first round grades, like my true, like that's what I have. And Johnson, I have kind of been, I had him consistently as a top five player, top five player and talking with you. I'm always just like, I, you come back and you watch as good. It's as good as anybody. It's, it's like legit.

the top five corner on the outside, you know, outside corner, which you just said is really hard to find. And usually you have to take those guys in the top 10. I mean, you look at the guys that just got paid, Derek Stingley, number three overall, number four overall, number four overall, number three overall, number four overall. I mean, all these guys are Jalen Ramsey was a top 10 pick. All these guys that are top, top corners at the position usually are going to be high picks. Johnson has that skillset, Sertan, top 10 pick.

JC Horn. JC Horn, yeah. Yep. And that's what Johnson looks like. The long speed thing...

is something that's concerned. It can kind of get overblown a little bit with corners because it's like, all right, yeah, they're going to get tested. But usually the guys that don't have it know how to mitigate it, especially a player like Johnson, who's smart. And I brought up the Sean Livingston on defense comparison. And I still mean that as a compliment is that Johnson just knows how to use his body. His awareness for playing the position, his feel for playing corner is high end. It's like he is, I already see him as a strong zone corner.

Like I know he can go in a cover three, cover four scheme and be great at it because he has length. He has ball skills, playmaking skills, and he just knows how to read in those zones and read the quarterback and read the route concepts. It's just the long speed thing just knocked me down just a little bit with him. But I might just be

Maybe I just ended up liking guys more, and I might just end up, this is the low end for me. Like 13 is actually a surprise. I even surprised myself, kind of put him there. But I almost had him at eight, but it's kind of that similar range. And maybe it just came down to the long speed stuff and the injury stuff. Just want to make sure it's all clear. We're all good to go there, but still a good player. Like this guy is a top 15 pick to me, easy. So he's taking that corner. Potential very good starting outside corner. Next one, going with really a guy that,

I think everyone likes him, but as trying to figure out what he is, and that's Jalen Walker linebacker slash edge from Georgia. You haven't met 16. I haven't met nine kind of that similar tier. Kinda, but a little differences. Maybe why, or maybe why do you see Walker as maybe a good player, but maybe not a top 10 talent, Charles? I just, I, I, I, I feel like I just struggle what to do with him a little bit. Like I,

I don't really know where you start him out at. Maybe you start him out at edge, but I think even there, there's a full-time edge role. It's going to be a little bit of a learning curve for him. But then I started thinking, isn't any spot that he settles in going to be somewhat of a learning curve? Because I think the role he played in Georgia's defense, it

It only really exists in so many defenses in the NFL, like where you're kind of just, you're, you're, you're a linebacker, but you're primarily, primarily moving forward in all your roles. Uh, obviously he does play and cover some, but, uh, the best place for him and the most productive he is and where Georgia needed him the most was when he was, uh, getting after the pass or, or, or, you know, coming downhill versus the run. Uh,

So I just think there's going to have to be a little bit of a transition for him that...

maybe his floor is a little bit lower. Like I, I still think he's a good player. Uh, and like, I, I, I flipped him around between like nine and 16, the whole, you know, past few days. But, uh, at the end of the day, like, I don't, I don't, I don't, I wouldn't be like offended at him going, uh, in a top 10. I, I just think you need to have a really clear plan for how you're going to deploy him and develop him for, uh, for the longterm. Yeah.

Yeah, he needs to go to a good home. Yeah. Like an adopted animal. He's easy to like. Like he seems like a pro's pro. He plays so hard.

Everyone raves about him, his work ethic, all that stuff. He's that tweener. And depending, it can be derogatory, it can be complimentary. You know, always he's good at off-ball and he's good as an edge player. Off-ball, I think some of his recognition stuff, maybe I've overrated a little bit and even watching him, it's like, you know, he could be a step slow recognizing stuff in coverage, especially when he has to carry stuff. That's the hardest thing linebackers have to do. But guess what they have to do in the NFL?

carry over and over and over. So you better get good at it. Does he have the athletic ability to do it? Yep. Does he have the hard working style to do it? Yep. His feel for it is more projection than...

than I think even I made it out to be. I really just like him. It's one of these guys that's like, right coaches, I can see this guy getting unlocked. I said my high-end comparison for him was Clay Matthews just because that's kind of how I, Clay Matthews was a little undersized edge. You know, he wasn't the longest guy. He was a solid size, but a little shorter arms, kind of like walkers. High energy, which way super aggressive, had some bend speed to him and then did some off-ball stuff as far as like a

blitzer and some more exotic looks what they call a spinner um over the center and guard and that's how i see walker in the nfl i just he just has to go to the right spot he's not scheme proof he's not situation proof which is i think is what you know maybe you truly truly want but just a good high energy player i then this is just me like tapping into i spend way too much time looking at georgia football brain uh but i think one thing that's kind of been interesting about like

Georgia's defense under Kirby is...

they seem to have like, specifically with the linebackers, they seem to have like a big brother role, basically, where you have your Mike linebacker, whether this year, CJ Allen, who I know we're both really high on for the next year's draft, and the Kobe Dean, Roquan Smith, and those guys kind of direct traffic so much that sometimes the other guys don't end up learning anything. Like you will get Quay Walker and

Yeah, find ball, get ball. Or some of the guys that played with Roquan, like someone's going to get you set up straight. You got to go. But it seems like they put so much onus on like the Mike linebacker in that role that the other guys end up not being able to do it.

being quite as ready for what comes next in the NFL. Because we've seen the Kobe get off to a decent start since he's been able to stay healthy. Obviously, Roquan, we'll see what happens with C.J. Allen next year. But they need the traffic director. And I think that sometimes it works to the detriment for their future development.

Because, yeah, because it's getting spoon fed for him. Just point and go. You do this. I got everything else. Yeah, no, it's a great point. The NFL version of that was always, I mean, shoot, last 2023 with Roquan and Patrick Queen was one version of that. And then the Bucs for years with Levante David was the traffic controller. And then Devin White.

was just point, shoot, go run ball, find ball, and you see what happens with Devin White. So that's a great point as maybe a guy they have some worries with too. No, that's a great point. It's always the classic pairing. It's the one line barrier, but the people on the line barrier are going like, go, you can do this. Just do this. You're going to be fine.

The moment that sticks out in my head the most is George playing Alabama in the national championship game, and there's like a full drive where N'Kobi is like dragging Koi Walker and Tyndall to the spots where they need to be before the play starts. That's good stuff. Something's never changed, too, you know? And Walker, I know, has fans in the league. He's got a lot of smoke with the Patriots right now, which is...

I don't know. That's a weird fit for me. I agree. It's just a weird fit. I'd like him to go into somewhere else. You know, I feel like they have better options at that pick. But there's a lot of smoke with Walker to the Patriots right now. So it's kind of keep my eye on that. I can see why Vrabel will fall in love with him, though. Like, I'm sure Vrabel is just like, this is my favorite player I've ever watched. Probably sees himself a little bit.

Right? And Vrabel, I can definitely tell, if he likes a personality, he's willing to wave away a lot. So I think I can see that with Walker a little bit. Next up, Teterio. Teterio? Teterio? Tete. He doesn't want to be called Tete. T-Mac. T-Mac. Receiver. Arizona. Charles, you have him at eight. I have him at three. We see him both as a top ten player. You feel good about it?

Yeah, I feel good about it. I'm staying strong on this. I don't, I see the detractors. I, I don't really care. I think this is the number one receiver in the NFL. Um,

I don't know. I don't really have too much to add on that. Like, no, we don't, we don't, we don't get emphasis on it. Yeah. He's pretty clean to me, man. Um, it's funny a bit. Cause the, the, one of the funniest things to me is like, when you're doing, uh, when you go, when you're going through back for, uh,

like the day two guys and some of the day three guys, like when you're putting together the big board, you end up rewatching a lot of stuff that you've already seen before. Cause you know, the talent in college football is more consolidated than, than I think it's ever been. Uh,

So I just kept watching these games where the Arizona quarterback, it's like, dude, what is going on here? And I think like in a kind of a messed up way, having a quarterback that was struggling like that ended up showcasing a lot what TMAC can do.

So I like the range. Yeah. Got to see the catch range. You got to see like some of the disaster drill stuff. I think he's a, I think he's a really clean player, man. I don't really have any concerns with him being a number one water receiver in the league. Yeah. That's why I'm a three and I'm standing on it. I really, really, really, really like him. Yeah. I get the long speed stuff, but it's like, I don't know. I think he's just such a fluid mover and other guys of that build have

have run the same kind of 40 times. And those were never brought up as blemishes. T Higgins, AJ Green, Josh Gordon, like guys like that. He doesn't play a lot like Josh Gordon, but AJ Green, T Higgins, he plays a lot like, and those guys all ran four or five forties, you know? So he's got size ball skills. Yeah. I've talked a lot about McMillan, but really like him. So this is a little more affirmation confirmation of this. I'm getting to one.

A player I really struggle with, actually, and this is James Pierce Jr., edge from Tennessee. You have him at 34. I have him at 42. Kind of the same tier. You end up a little bit higher. But we both see him as not a true first-rounder, I think, graded-wise. He might go there, but we have him outside that classification.

How do you view Pierce? Maybe why do you maybe struggle to bump him up? And this is where you ended up with as the 34th pick on top of maybe, as opposed to maybe just buying into his traits and his speed and everything like that. I kind of settled in on like, I think his impact at the next level is going to be like peak Yannick Ngakwe when he was...

It's like if you got a dude like Calais Campbell was at the time who can kind of wreck shop in the interior, that's like a perfect cleanup guy to have because he's so damn fast. Like he really is fast as hell. Like there's plays where like if he, he's like, he's not, it's weird. Like he's fast without being the most explosive guy. Like when it comes to taking on contact and playing through guys, he's not the best, but

especially against college offensive tackles. Like if he gets like a little bit of space, like he really can run by guys. Didn't have as many sacks as he did maybe in the past, but still I do think like the, the baseline for him is at least, I think at least like he could be a productive pass rusher, like on a quality defensive line, which is,

I'm not really offended that that in the at like the bottom of the first round or top of the second I just don't know if he has like the full traits package that you're looking for from like a lead off defensive end like when you see like Shamar Stewart is probably going to get drafted before James Pierce I think if you're looking at just like overall skill and technique it's it's like

it's not even close. James Pierce is, you know, a better player right now. But when you're looking at like, what's the upside to become like truly a player that just blows up offensive lineman versus the run versus the pass, it's just kind of hard to see him getting there with his, with his physical skillset. I, I, I just think he's just kind of like a pure pass rushing defensive end. And I, I wouldn't expect too much from him outside of that.

The definition of a speed rusher. Yeah. For those that don't know, James Pierce was 6'5", 245 at the combine, and then ran a 4'4", 7". And then we talked about this in our D-Line show, our extensive D-Line Edge two-hour extravaganza. But with Pierce...

It's just, this is the player profile that has a lot of red flags to me. And that's why it's like, I want to gauge him properly. And I think early seconds gauging him properly. I see the speed you see, like you said, he overwhelms college tackles easily. If he just gets that one step, it's just the explosiveness and some of the strength, you know, I think he's a non-factor against the run. There's also some want to that's kind of, you know, he's indifferent against it. So it's like, all right, so you're just going to get after the passer. Okay.

I think the arsenal is actually okay as a pass rusher. I wouldn't say he's totally, you know, limited. I think he's developing some stuff and then he has an advantage. He has a calling card, which I think other guys don't. And that's the speed. He just has to go to a right spot. But,

He really has to go with a good coach. I love that you brought up the old Ravens example and Gawkway and Klyce Campbell. He needs beef around him. I wouldn't want him going to a team with just a whole bunch. I wouldn't want him going to the Cowboys from the last couple years. It's just, I know they're not going for an edge, but it's like, all right, they already got Micah Parsons. They need beef. They need more Demarcus Lawrence types, not more James Pierce types. So I just struggle with this type. These are the types of guys that

kind of fall off if they're not able to become true sack artists because they're not able to kind of fill in space elsewhere, you know, not able to contribute elsewhere. And also they become kind of a

not a designated hitter, but like a home runs and busts, like boom, bust, pass pressure. He either gets the sack or there's nothing. There's not even a pressure. You know, so that's these types of guys. Again, I'll say it for the third time, just struggle with these guys. And the comparison I had is Deion Jordan. That's kind of always this type of player profile. That's what always sticks in my head is Deion Jordan. Long, fast, not very explosive, not very strong. And that kind of was able to get washed out by NFL tackles a lot. But

Yeah. Teams are going to love the speed. It's just...

Like, I'm not an idiot to that, what NFL teams fall for. So I'm just curious. He's like the sweetener if you already got some guys up front. He's not the guy you build around, but if he's the last guy you add, you're probably going to be in a pretty good spot. If you just say, hey, year one, hopefully we take you in the second round, somewhere in the 30s or 40s. Year one, all right, you're playing year 15. You know, like Will McDonald with the Jets?

like yeah i don't wait what he basically his path you know the doll is still indifferent against the run but uh yeah but that path of kind of just like hey we start you as a rotational guy as a dpr disney pass rusher and we build up to more snaps as you kind of can take it on and hopefully squats more uh last one here a guy that's on your all juice team with charles robinson

Another one of these defensive linemen that I kind of just struggle with. You see the gifts, you see the talent, just sometimes it's not always there. But you kind of warm to him. You told me this before in the green room. But Charles, this is Walter Nolan, defensive tackle from Ole Miss. 26 on your big board, 38th on mine, again, on your all-Jews team with Charles Robinson. But Chuck, why did you warm to Nolan and maybe give him this big bump on your last big board? Yeah.

Oh, God. It's like my... He plays defensive tackle like the most fun way it's supposed to be played, basically. In all the good and bad ways. What I mean by that is...

Like, I've seen people call him Aaron Donald. That's absurd. No. People keep trying to do the Aaron Donald stuff every once in a while when someone's a little undersized and gets up the field. He did it with the Kalajik-Hansi. Like, no, no, no. Go back and watch Aaron Donald at Pitt. It's just a totally different animal than what he was.

actually unblockable. Aaron Donald also, not only just production-wise in college, he also won the Allen Trophy, Lombardi, the Bronco Nagurski, the Bill Willis, who's an anonymous All-American. His stats were insane. This was Aaron Donald. Sorry, I coached Aaron Donald. I didn't coach him. I was an offensive GA, but I was around Aaron Donald, AD. In college, my two years there with him, he had 48 TFLs in two years.

48 TFLs in two years at defensive tackle. Like,

Just starting there. I watched him play against Georgia Tech when they were in the triple option and they legitimately couldn't run the ball because he was blowing up every single play. I saw him tackle two guys against Duke at the exact same time. He tackled the quarterback and the running back at the same time. Basically bonked their heads in together. So, yeah, sorry. I just had to go my little mini rant. Don't compare anyone to Aaron Donald. He's once in a lifetime type of player. Maybe, you know, I was around John Randall too. But, you know, but those types of players are very seldom. Once every 20 years types.

Yeah. But it's, he, he's, he, so Walter Dolan, like his thing is, man, I got to get up the field, man. I got it. I got to get up the field. I got to get this TFL. I got to get this sack. Um,

And when it works, it's so disruptive. Like he really can be someone that's winning like immediately off the snap, get into the backfield, causing havoc. Like I can't remember exactly which game it was, but there's a play where

where the team they're playing, they're backed up on the goal line. And he is just, he gets off the ball so fast that he almost sacks the quarterback in the end zone as soon as the ball touches his hand. And there's plays like that. But the detriment of that is he can be really unsound sometimes as a player. Uh,

that causes structural deficiencies for the entire defense when he's hunting and trying to go get plays in the backfield. And that's, see, that's the part that people don't think about sometimes, I think, when they see players like this, where, yes, Walter Nolan, like, if you were just to cut his best plays, you could make a case that that's probably one of, like, the 10 best players in the draft with how quickly he can win and, like, the ability to finish plays and be disruptive.

But you have to take the whole package. Like when, when he's going, going back door, trying to get a TFL, well, that's a cutback lane for a running back. And now a linebacker has been made bad because Walter's hunting to play. Or, you know, there's times where Walter is being too aggressive, trying to like split through a double team instead of just eating it. And now he's getting washed down the line of scrimmage and causing problems for the other defensive linemen. That's where you,

kind of have to throw some water on the fire. You know who I actually thought of this week when I was watching him? Dominic Easley, the old Florida defensive tackle who tore up his knees. But when he was at his peak, it was kind of the same thing. Like the top end explosive plays are going to be out of this world. But

The down-to-down consistency is what stops someone from being Aaron Donald. And there's no shame in not being Aaron Donald, but that guy could play nose tackle at 285. You know? Come on now. There's a difference here. That's it. Yeah. Easily a good shout. He went 29th overall. 6'2", 288. Actually, yeah. Nice little comparison there. No, Nolan, he's boom or bust to me. It's just, I'm glad you put it. It's like his highlights, if you just did...

all right, you grab his three best plays from each game and you don't watch any of the in-between plays. Holy crap. And watching him slanting and on, like on twists and games, you were mentioning that that's where he's a weapon. Well,

Like if you slant the defensive line, like he can be unblockable because he can slither and get low and everything. But like you said, he goes rogue. And that, that is sometimes a sliding scale based on what, you know, how the character evaluation is too. I don't know much about Nolan. I just know they transfer to a lot of schools and some coaches might hold that against them or some teams might hold that against them when you're kind of playing with pairing with how he plays like the worst end of this. And,

God, I can't believe it's just because he's went to the same school, but this is not because of that. Uh, Robert Condici, uh, from Ole Miss, you know, like, uh,

And keep him in contention. God, I remember his brother. We played him at Pitt and his brother. All he did was talk crap the entire game. Yeah. A little, a little sought off linebacker or safety type. Yeah. But Robert, at least his best game in college and everyone wanted to love him. Everyone wanted to love him, but it was always like, well, you know, he doesn't always put it together, but if you watch his best plays Ole Miss guy as well. And then his best game. I can't remember. I want to say it was against Florida.

But he had one game where he just went off. And then if you watched it, it was because he went back door on every single play. Every single play. So it was like, that was great. And yeah, you see the highlights, but if you knew the structure of the play, it was indicative of how Robert played. Like, it was like, oh yeah, he goes rogue. You can't trust him. It's all about boom or bust. It's yada, yada, yada. So that is the pessimist kind of like,

of this profile is like, well, if he plays like that now, how is he going to improve in the pros? Does he get with a good coach that goes, no, you have to be disciplined, yada, yada, yada. Like if he ended up with like, I actually just did a Giants podcast, but if he ended up with the Giants with Andre Patterson as a defensive line coach, I'd be like, yeah, we're good here. Like, cause he's going to kind of hone in on the talent and get him going. But if he goes to a place where it's like, we're drafting 12th overall or 15th overall,

That's scary to me because you're just saying he has to play 30, 40 reps, 40 reps right away because we have to justify this high draft pick. So somewhere in between where we have him, 26 and 38 is where I'm kind of comfortable with him. Yeah, I was looking at him. If he is like a top half of the first round player, I still think that...

I don't think he's as dire as James Pierce, but I still think he needs someone better than him on the defensive line, especially lining up next to him. Because if you're going to be a gap shooter, if you're going to be a risk taker like he is, and quite honestly, just play a little out of control sometimes, you got to have someone steady next to you. So I just don't really see a clean fit unless like,

Like, unless the Jets were going to take him at seven, which, I mean, they do need some help. That would be a little crazy.

Yeah. The Giants one was the one I came to because Dexter Lawrence, you know, and kind of could help out with that. But even Dexter is kind of a gap shooter type. He doesn't go as rogue, but he's a gigantic nose that plays like a gap shooter. It's one of the craziest ones. Yeah, I know. I haven't found the fit. Someone's going to take a chance on him, though, because like you said, the highs are so high. Yeah. And as soon as the D-line coach watches that, they're going to be all over it. So I think he ends up going...

I think he ends up going in first. I really do. I mean, I don't think it's crazy. Yeah. I think the talent's there and that's how this class is. There's so much in this area. The team that feels like they already have stuff is going to take a chance to try and get a top 10 talent at 28 or 25 or something like that. So yeah, if you look in Nolan, Nolan was six, four to 96 at the combine. Can DG was six, three and a half. So six, four to 94 at the combine ran four, eight, seven, 40, 28 reps on the bench.

34-inch arms, 33-7A. It's a little longer than Nolan, but similar body types, too. So, yeah. All-Jews team, though, for a reason, because...

Those highs are high with Nolan. It's just, I'm curious who's going to, who's going to chase the dragon. It's going to be curious. Charles, Charles Robinson. He, he does a lot of surveying with like general managers and high level front office people. And Walter Nolan, that was one that got a lot of votes for the all juice team we were working on this week.

Right. Just draft Shamar Stewart and draft Nolan. One of them's got to figure it out, right? No one's a lot closer to Shamar right now. Yeah, I know. It's saying something. But we are going to take our first break, and then we're going to come back with some new names in the top 50, some players that took the biggest jump, and others that were on one of our big boards and not the other one. See you guys in a sec.

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Learn more and get yours now at NewBalance.com slash football. All right, we are back with the big board off. We're going to do some new names in the top 50. Even though we have a top 75 board, we'll get to the other names. But we're going to do the new additions that made kind of what we consider maybe the true top two round guys, at least for me. The first one I'll start off with is a guy that was on both of our top 50s and a player that I was able to sit down and interview.

A few weeks ago, that's Carson Schlesinger, linebacker, UCLA. Actually, we talked about him a little bit on our back at seven, you know, linebackers and DBs pod. But why did you end up giving him the bump? And I believe he's your, well, it depends on how you consider Jalen Walker, but he's your true, maybe your LB2 of true off-ball linebackers behind John Campbell. So talking about Schlesinger, why you end up liking him.

Yeah. It's funny because I think Jihad and Carson were the only linebackers to make my top 75. Yeah. I wanted to like Danny Stutzman from Oklahoma, but he missed two tackles. Couldn't do it. He would get there. He would get there. He just couldn't make the tackle. There is another linebacker Oklahoma I do like for next year's draft, but...

keep going. Yeah, next year, we might be back a little bit next year, but this year, you know, at least we have a first round guy. Yeah, good one too. I have three, I have my 2026 sheet out. I have three

Two linebackers for sure are my top 20 next year. That's C.J. Allen from Georgia and Anthony Hill Jr. from Texas. I think Hill's incredible. And then the Oklahoma guy is Kip Lewis from Oklahoma. I thought he was interesting. But yes, Shweshen here. Back to our guy. Yeah, we talked about it last week, but I think this is a guy that's going to benefit from being on the NFL defense, honestly. Because UCLA...

wasn't all that good last year. I mean, if you pay attention to college football, you know that that program has really, really taken a nose dive over the past decade. And I think it showed. I think it showed for Carson in a way where you're like, okay, maybe not the best, like the heavy lifting physicality stuff, but

That comes with linebacker play, but the speed, man, the speed and the ability to finish plays. I think if he actually gets to a defensive line that can keep him clean a little bit better than UCLA did, like there's potential for him to just be just splash play king.

at the next level because he really does have the speed and the range to come and finish plays. But I think I compared him last week to, it reminds me of a bigger version of N'Kobe Dean. So N'Kobe, when he's been on the field, like last year, was great for the Eagles. I can kind of see the same thing for Carson. You end up with a good defensive line that's disruptive and you can play some really good football off of it.

Got some burst and speed. Can get swallowed up by blockers because he's not very strong or very long. So that's a great comparison with Dean, where it's like their recognition and their awareness is excellent. I would even say very good at the very least. That's actually really impressed me with Schlesinger was that, well,

First thing that, like you just mentioned, the speed and everything. The thing that impressed me the most is his speed and coverage ability. Like he is already very good. It's not projection or anything. I talked with him about it. He would be the pole runner on cover two, which is a tough ask on linebackers. You see now more NFL teams trying to invert their cover two to have safeties being that pole runner to, you know, just to make it have more athletic guy. And what a pole runner is in cover two, picture Brian or a lacquer.

You know, that's what he made famous. Yeah, Luke Keekly. It's the, yeah, when Julio dunked on him. It's cover two. All right, you have two deep safeties. The middle linebacker is very important in cover two because he has to play the run, but then also he's responsible for filling the middle area, the middle, what they call the pole runner, the middle pole. And so he has to come up, play up front, play the run, but then if it's play action or something, he's got to hightail it and get back.

And Schlesinger, it's not theory. It's not projection. He already does it. His best clips are of him in that coverage running with Zachariah Branch. I brought it up on the interview with him. I didn't even realize it was Zachariah Branch from USC, who is a very explosive receiver, and he's running step-by-step with them and makes a PBU on it. That's going to translate. And his recognition is good. I thought his awareness and play recognition, I'll use that term again, was very good, and I talked with him about it. His studying was really, like,

he's pretty professional already. I was really impressed. It's just that he's going to get swallowed up by bigger guys. I don't think he can max out anymore, but he's going to have a role in this league. Easy. Like I seen the bills trot out guys like this all the time and they have defensive line that they try. Everything has to be disruption. And then the linebackers it's run and hit man. I could see him fit on a few teams. I mean, shoot, imagine them with like the Raiders, the,

uh you know like somebody you know with patrick graham you know doing all his stuff like that would be a fun fit i i just i really liked him uh easy player in my top 50 better than a lot of linebackers i've watched in the last couple years as far as just what he projects like elijah cooper was interesting but he was projection you know it's like yeah he ran and everything and then obviously he looks really good as a pro especially your stuff is

easy to kind of like sell. It's an easy selling point because he's such a good athlete and he's very aware and can play in coverage, which translates to the NFL. The other guy that you had in your top 50, this is actually a guy that didn't even make my top 75 and I regret it.

Because he was on my next five list. And I was like, I knew I should have put him in here. Darian Porter, corner from Iowa State. Talk to me about Porter. Where'd you have him end up for final on your big board? Porter is 46. Yep, yeah, Schroeder, 45, and Porter, 46.

Talk to me about Porter. Cause I know you were, you were definitely interested in him as you were watching him. I could tell. Yeah. I just watched him for the first time this week because man, I, the cornerback stuff, DB, I'm going to be slow to it every year. I just, I get bored. Honestly, I can't, it's like,

Dude, watching the safety film, like you don't do anything until you have to do something. Man, you're out there cosplaying like you're dropping in some deep zone and the ball's 30 yards away from you. I think that's why every public evaluator has been going nuts about Jaha Campbell.

because it's like oh he's doing stuff every play this is so much fun like yeah a good linebacker is really fun to watch again yeah and like i because i was watching a billy bowman uh safety from oklahoma who's also an all juice team guy this week i'm like god damn bro like you're you're so far away from the ball and so many plays i i'm getting a little bored here but uh

with Darian Porter, like I, I, I, I, like I said, I hadn't heard of him before this week, or maybe it just slipped past my mind because I watched like three plays to start off. And I was like, dude, is this like the most athletic player in the freaking draft? And then I went to the, I went to, you know, look up his combat stats and maybe he is, you know, he's six, three, well, one 95, ran four, three, had insane agility times. Like,

he very much looks like that athlete on film. Um, because like there, there's plays where, uh, you know, he's smothering guys downfield and it just looks easy for him. Now he's not the most polished player all the time. Like sometimes he's, he's one of those guys sometimes where his, his athleticism can get him out of some bad spots that he puts himself into. So I think the learning curve might be a little bit higher for him in the NFL, but,

good Lord, like you can't, you just can't teach those traits. You can't teach the athleticism and it comes through in a tangible way on film. No, I, I totally get it because you're just looking at the size and that's so hard converted receiver. So he was a receiver the first three years at Iowa state, then moved to corner and then finally was able to play, you know, be a full-time starter this year. So he is a little older as a prospect, but yeah,

Not comparing them to him, but it's, you know, who's an older converted receiver at corner? Richard Sherman. But no, Richard Sherman was also a genius IQ. I'll say they're at corner as opposed to like figuring out this position. But no, I totally get this one. I totally get the selling point of him. The gifts you say too is that

Maybe he's still developing at the position. So it's more excusable. Like, hey, some stuff they hasn't figured out. So, I mean, there's not many corners that are 6'3", 197, 33 and a half inch arms. He's basically left tackle arms. Yeah. And then ran a 4'3", 40, 1.51 vert, or 10, 36 inch vert, 10.11 broad, 4.04 short shuttle. So he's not big stiff either. You know, four flat short shuttle. Oh, yeah. He's a freak. He's a freak.

someone's going to take a chance on him, even though he's older. It's like these guys don't go past 50. So I think you – I'd bet more on your prediction of this one than mine. I couldn't get over the hump with him. Maybe it was just I got a little gun shy with it. But, no, I totally get why you included him. If you can't tell him regret not having him in mind. But I'm going to have him in my next five. That's my way of –

My next five little list I always put up there. A guy that I did have in my top 50 that really came around on the receiver class is interesting. He's in my top 50, but I have him considered part of this next tier of receivers. You know, my late second, early third round grades. That's Kyle Williams, receiver from Washington State. Transfer from UNLV.

Talked with him a little bit with Matt Harmon, but explosive. And that's the name of the game in the NFL. Can you create explosive plays? And I think Kyle Williams can do that in spades. Really just a playmaker with the ball in his hands. Really good on underneath routes and screens.

I thought he was a really good ball tracker as well. You know, sometimes strength, play strength, you know, and get maybe stuff knocked away and everything because of his build. And sometimes the route running where you can kind of get knocked off by stronger guys, but he's competitive. I mean, I watched Boise State game. They're getting blown out by 20 and there he is trying to break tackles and running. He's cheering on his teammates. And I know that's just, you know, it can be sound like corny, but

I don't know. You watch receivers, especially in college, see a lot of guys that are kind of throttling down in the second half. So twitchy, competitive, a little older. I think he's a fifth-year guy. But I think he's just much more than like a package play guy, which was maybe I was assuming when I watched him. He's got more polish to him, but I really think he's a strong secondary option. Could develop into a number two, maybe a floor of a number three, but a number two that,

does have some of the polished stuff but it's one of those he gave him touches he can add a big play but he's not just a gadget guy so i think this is your kind of ideal kind of z that you want to go for or a z that okay i can take him late day two or middle of day two maybe get a little bit more of him because he had so much juice to the offense so doesn't have the greatest size he just snuck into my top 50 um i think i'm at 49 or 50 let me double check i'm a 48 actually um

Just really came around on them. Really liked them. Can totally see why some teams like them and everything, but just an explosive play weapon in the NFL that teams are desperate for explosive plays. It's like a pass rusher that gets sacks. You know, that's going to carry. Same with the receiver getting explosive plays. So yeah, Kyle Williams, Wazoo.

formerly a rebel, formerly a neighbor here in UNLV. But he made one of my biggest jumps. Not really. I mean, I had him just off my top 50 and now he's in my top 50. But other players that made big jumps for us,

And I saw this one coming, not just from me, not just from you, but I think my dad tipped off my hand when we did our offensive line breakdown. That is Josh Carnley Jr., offensive tackle from Oregon. He ended up way high on mine, 18th on my big board.

He ended up on your 24, 24. And he was about 30 on my last one and always been hovering around 2830. You watched on the end game with Connolly though. And at the season tape with Connolly, watch that Penn state game. Yeah, this is a stock I'm buying, but tell me why he made the jump for you. And then I'll get into why he made the jump for me.

I don't know. He just checks a lot of boxes. I think the more I went back and watched, especially this week, I just don't really see a way that he's like a flatly bad offensive lineman in the NFL. There's just too many tools.

He's already got some pro readiness to his game, still got some strength to develop, I think, as you get into the NFL and getting a little older and growing stronger. So there's still upside untapped there. I just, I think the more I was just thinking about, I was like, why do I have someone who checks as many boxes in my 30s? Like now you should probably be- - That's what I did. - I do it the hard way. - I was like, why am I doing this? - Why am I doing this? - Character's good.

okay, man. Okay. What are you going? Why am I low on them? His tape against good players is good. Like, yeah, that's exactly what I came to. Uh, yeah. When I did the offensive line show with my dad, he kind of, I thought, so I thought I was going to be the high guy in Connerly. Like I was like really excited to like drop this big board, really plant my flag on him. He's my offensive lineman three after Mimbao and Campbell. Um, still that one went to the end who I prefer to those two, but,

And Connolly bumped up and I had my dad on the show and he goes, oh, yeah, that's my offensive lineman. One period done. And the story he loves him, which was like, OK, cool. That gave me even more ammo and kind of confidence with it. But, yeah, he moves like a blindside protector. He has length. He has more to improve upon. But he also again, there's there's stuff that we always say. I always say like, oh, that's theory.

Because there's some stuff where you're like, you're trying to project it and go like, yeah, he can become this. You're kind of narrative scouting. With Conaway, what's really encouraging is that you see it already. I keep coming back to this. From the UCLA game onwards, which I think was like game four for them at the end of September, onwards, he just rapidly developed. And then kind of like the epitome was at the end of the season, the Penn State game just excelled against Abdul Carter and other Penn State pass rushers too.

So just, yeah, moves like a blindside protector. Has length, has technique that's rapidly improved. And I think can go more because that speaks to how hard of a worker he is too. So yeah, I don't know. This guy, I think is just a really good player. Others are bumping him up as well, but I think he was an easy guy to bump up for the final big board. And no teams like him. I think his floor is in the mid twenties. I think he might end up going higher than that. Because after we did that pod, two teams reached out to me and told me to shut up.

I swear. So we got two teams, a college director and a director of player personnel reached out and go, Hey, enough with the Connerly talk. Don't post that clip anymore because they're trying to massage it in the twenties. So we have some fans in the league. Well, I mean, I, I think even the, now that, uh, now that, uh, Toronto Armstead is retired from Miami, like that's such a clean landing spot for him. It'll make a lot of, it will make so much sense.

Right. And yeah, especially athletically come what they want to do. Yeah. That's a great fit for him. Yeah. We, we, I mean, we did him about for a minute, but we had him going to the 49ers as well.

which is another one too. But yeah, Shanahan, that's the thing that's cool with Connerly is that he's athletic enough to play in a Shanahan scheme, but he projects in any type of scheme. My dad is definitely not a Shanahan scheme guy. So the fact that he was like so high. No, no. So the fact that he was like all about it too is encouraging. So yeah, Josh Connerly Jr., make sure to check him out in the top 20.

Once that draft happens. Are you talking about Walter Nolan who made a big jump for you? The last one, and I think you and I joked about this before the show, is another offensive lineman. A guy that started high for me and kind of just kept trickling down the board. And then finally I kind of stopped it. And I was like, wait, hold on. Let me rewatch you and assess you. This is Kelvin Banks Jr. Offensive lineman, tackle slash guard. I consider him more of a guard. But give him a shot at tackle. He has length. He has athleticism from Texas. He ended up

Where did he end up on yours? He was 15. Yeah. I was being so biased, honestly. I was just being so biased. 22nd of the line. Yeah. I, I, I,

Because I'll say straight up, I was just high off those Georgia games where they just beat the piss out of them. Like, do Michael Williams against Texas offensive line, like run game stuff? It's Warhammer stuff. And I got kind of caught up in that. But as I'm like...

especially this week like as i'm just just just eating film for like basically you know the past like four or five years yes like a hot like a hobbit eating meals you have second breakfast damn near all day um i i kept like coming back to some of these texas games and like even watching deep at the bottom that played against texas i'm like oh man like he's

he's really steady. He's a lot steadier than, than I had originally painted this picture in my mind. And honestly, I, I did like a,

a semi rewatch of like the Texas offense at like one 30 the other night. Cause, cause you know, cause Golden's getting first round hype. Obviously people are talking about Isaiah Bond. You got quote unquote, Quinn, quarterback, right. There's, there's there's a lot going on. So when I started like rewatching the game, I was like, he's, he's, he's pretty good. I don't, I don't know if he's,

I don't view him like Bumbo or Will Campbell, per se, but there's definitely a happening where he's a starting left tackle for a while. And if not, that's probably one of the guys that's a pretty clean transition to guard just because he's so big and goddamn strong. There's a lot there with Banks. I don't remember where I had him on the first one. I know it was probably too low.

Yeah, I bumped him about like eight spots. I think I had him about like 28, 29. I was starting to like others. I had the exact same process you did. I still think he's better as a guard, but I think I even wrote this in my last sentence of the write-up for him. I said, but he has deserved every chance to stay out at tackle because of just athleticism, arm length, all that stuff. He's got some...

Smith was a little bit strong, stronger, but like Tyler Smith, you know, when he came to the league, it was like, Oh, is he a tackle? And then like, he bumped into guard and he's an all pro guard. Banks kind of has some more movement ability. It has the same. And this was the line I keep coming back to. My dad's sandbag me when I made this joke, but he has the ass of a guard. And that's why I just can't,

He does. I just can't unlook at it. I'm like, that's a guard. That's a guard. And maybe I was doing a disservice to him. I'm like, oh, yeah, bump him in the guard. He's not a tackle. But then you watch him. You're like, oh, he can hang. He's got length. He's plenty –

real good athlete you know so that some of the finishing stuff was really also where i had some blemishes and guess what a guy that preaches about finishing my dad this was his number three overall offensive lineman um because he just he was he's like look at the what he can do though he's like look him out in space look him on screens he's 20 yards down the field making blocks i'm like yeah you're right you're right but i think you and i both did the classic what can he do

Not, not enough of the okay stuff, but what can you do? Oh, wow. He can do a lot. So yeah, I think we kind of came to the same conclusion once it all said and done. Yeah. It's an interesting offensive line class. I don't know why people knocked it. There's a lot of starters here. I know. All right. Well now,

before we get to your interview with Coach Prime. We have a whole bunch of players and now that we have 75, maybe I had on my big board, you didn't, you had in your big board and I didn't. So I wanted to kind of maybe talk about a couple of those. I already talked about Kyle Williams, Devin Neal, I've talked about in the past on other shows.

Riley Leonard, I've talked about plenty. I do want to bring up one more thing about Riley Leonard, that he played receiver to start high school. He has not been a quarterback groom since nine years old. Bet on the traits, bet on the upside. Elijah Arroyo, tight end for Miami. But really the guy I want to talk about, I kind of want to emphasize here, was Torrey Horton, receiver from Colorado State. I ended up getting him in my top 75, 68th on my big board. Talked about a little bit with him, with Matt Harmon on our receiver show, but

I really like this guy. I think he can be a number two. I, he moves not the same total athlete, but he moves a lot like Devante Smith, where he

where he's long-legged, but he's not stiff. But he has some agility to him. He was a good punt returner. He had three punt return touchdowns in college as well. Got hurt this past year with an ACL, but then he was already healthy to run the 40 and ran a 4-4-1. Notice how to use his length. He's got strength, what I would say is his biggest blemish. But actually, I think it's okay because he's competitive. He's a pretty good route runner. He's got good ball skills. He's really good towards the sidelines and the back of the end zone. And also, they asked him to pass, which I...

I'm a sucker for that. Like if a college coach is asking the receiver to be the thrower, like the passer, like there's something to that, like, you know, there's something to that. So I trust him, trust them. They did it a bunch and he returns punts. So Torrey Horton, I I'm higher than probably a lot of people. He's not on the consensus top 100. Um, but I think he's a top 75 player. I mean, he was healthy. I think more would kind of consider him that way. Um,

Ozzie Trapilo, tackle from Boston College, really liked him as well. I think he's an interesting day two candidate at tackle. Reminds me a little bit of God, who is the tackle that Rosengarden.

from uh that that uh that washington that the ravens drafted yep big athletic uh got some technique stuff and strain stuff to work on but i don't know you don't see six eight guys with good eyes move this well like all right let's get them squatting a little more and we can figure this out so that was another guy i wanted to highlight and then uh i did include jared wilson the center from georgia i i

I'm sorry. I know you're not the biggest fan. I know. He could have been screwed up by whatever they got going on last year, too. Their O-line coach sucks. I'm sorry. Their whole O-line was just a travesty last year. I think Wilson's got some serious upside, but...

It's a projection. The floor scares me. It's a projection. I agree. You don't ever usually get a center athlete projection. Yeah.

you know, like, you know, but he's a really good athlete. He's only played there a little bit. So that's what, you know, I hopefully you want to see it, but I don't know. I just like how he bends recovers. I think if you get them in the right situation, it could be a fun day to center for somebody that like is willing to understand what he is and the time you need. So I had to throw him in there. I can't really think of anyone, anyone else. Joan Monroe made my top 75 as well for you. We've talked about Andrew, Andrew Makuba from

From Texas, safety. You have a 44th on your big board. He made the all-Jews team. We've talked a little bit about him on the DB show, but why'd you end up getting him in the top 50? Because other than that, he's really fun. Well, yeah, that's really it, because he doesn't care about himself. I mean that in a complimentary way. You know, just...

If I die, I die. Going in to make these hits. It's not for me, but I love those guys on my team. Hell yeah. Not me, but yeah, you could do it. He's going to have the sweetest 33 game career. Because

he's the Devante Freeman of safeties. Yes. Like, okay. Okay. If I could put, if I could put my Cuba's brain in, uh, man, what's that South Carolina safeties name? Uh, yes. Yeah. If I could put his brain in that guy's body, that might be like a top 10 pick. Uh, because, because, because I really do think Cuba does so much. Well, like, uh,

Not being afraid to fill the alley, being a hammer. I think he plays zone over the middle of the field well. It's just he's smaller. He's just smaller. And I think that that's going to end up being maybe to his detriment in the NFL. Me and C-Rob, we got back some second-round projections from Akuba. Ooh, okay. Yeah, so I've had him at like 43 or 44, I think, about the whole time. And it's going to keep him around.

No, I love that. Any of these other guys? You got Wyatt Millam from West Virginia. Offense tackle slash guard. He is a really good player. I think he's quite fast.

He had a good performance against a Bill Carter start the year. I liked, I like him better as a guard, but I'll give him a shot at tackle. But why'd you have him? He's at 52 on your big board. He's on my next five list. I'm dead serious. That's not a joke. He's my, it's my way. So everyone knows it's my way of going like, Hey, I want to include this guy, but there's only so many spots. So it's on my next five as I like to call it.

And look, I'm going to keep it up with you. Like at this point to me, a lot of these guys are kind of the same, you know, like I'm not getting, I guess because, because I think I even put it on a little chat last night. I was like, dude, I'm down to so-and-so players, so many players.

And they're like all the same. I don't care. So I'm like, I'm, I'm, I'm, yeah. Like I do think, I do think like at 52, obviously he deserves a spot on top 75 in my opinion. But I, I just, I just thought he, he just seemed like a, kind of like a safe and steady starter. Like I, I just think you could put him in at guard and is he going to be like an A plus guy? No, but yeah,

it could be a quality starter which is certainly good enough for me on day two you know how much quality starters get paid at guard

in the NFL like 18 mil like 14 mil like that that's you can get a nice value there if you get a guy on day two I'm glad to give him a shout though uh because I do like him it was just others I just kind of bumped up there um any of these other guys from your little chunk of lists I know everyone can't see right now but anyone else that you want to talk about that you included on your top 75 um let's see Billy Bowen from Oklahoma safety was another all-jews team guy I

I hate to slip into cliche mode, but just kind of one of those guys, like when he's in position, Scott knows for the ball, just kind of knows for me. Not a great athlete. I don't think he's like an S tier safety, but you know, seems like someone who could be a potentially reliable starter at the next level. I, to, to,

I hate that I did this to our friend Seth Lena, but I did end up with Colm Court sneaking into my top 75. I saw that and I was hoping you would take the bait and talk about this. Get it in here. Hey, hey. I get it. He knows how to play quarterback. If you would ask me if he was going to be here this time last year, I probably would have thought you were smoking crack. Yeah.

And laughed and laughed. How do you get better without Marvin Harrison and Emeka Igbuka and the atmosphere? The version of Kyle McCord that played this year never gets asked to leave Ohio State. It's kind of crazy. But he did turn into...

Kind of like the perfect point-and-shoot guy for the Syracuse offense. And look, I don't think that this is a guy that's got real long-term starting potential. But on day three, if I'm looking for, if I'm squinting for a potential quarterback just to see what happens, I think his floor, from what he showed last year, I think his floor is just high enough where it's worth bringing him in on like,

the third round or the fourth round. Because I don't know. I just think from what you showed last year, he could be at worst like a steady backup, which if you end up burning a third round pick on that, it's not the worst thing in the world. I thought about him versus Milrow. And then there's just so many Milrow plays that just are terrifying. They're just so scary. So I did go with a little safer option.

yeah i mean shoot kellen maughan went the third round ian book went in the fourth round that's why people make fun of me the riley leonard stuff and i'm like hey i've seen who goes in the top 100 at quarterback and i don't want anyone to talk about that yeah yeah i mean it's yeah it's the there's a rick and morty line rick says like like don't boo me i've seen what makes you cheer

Some of the times when people talk to me, it's like, you're getting on me? Really? I've seen what you're liking right now. No, I can't believe Kyle McCord was the last quarterback I evaluated. I think I ended up watching 14 guys and liked him too. I see him as like a fourth rounder.

Um, he probably, if we did top 100, he probably would have gone like 99, you know, that would be my way to like throw him in there, but I'm with you. I see him as a, a good backup at the very least. Okay.

Maybe there's more. Maybe, like you said, he can be a point and shoot guy. He can get in a Shanahan offense and just be a boot, a couple dropbacks a game, and just handle the offense. I think he can do that. Boot, point, shoot. Did we just come up with a new phrase? I think we did. Boot, point, shoot. He can be a boot, point, shoot quarterback. He absolutely can. Yeah. No, that's exactly what he is. I did include Milrow in mine. He's 69 on my big board. Nice. I actually...

I have them one spot above. Yeah, nice. I have them one spot above Dart, actually. I have them right next to each other. Because my argument...

My argument came into like, all right, if you're taking these two guys or comparing them, they both have the same issue. When things come unravel, just like hold on to your hat, like what's going to happen. I'll take the excellent athlete, excellent arm, as opposed to the good athlete with the good arm. That's really what it came down to because I think they have similar blemishes. And, you know, it all just comes down to what you prefer of that. So Milrow kind of ended up winning one. I think once I started comparing them to Cordell Stewart in my brain, I think I started coming around on them and was like,

I like sold myself a narrative on him. So, you know, he's going to invite you to Green Bay for a reason. So maybe it ends up okay. But no, the quarterback class is just a whole bunch of this. Last guy, because I just think I, this is the curious case of this player and it's the last one we went on.

He ended up making my big board at 72. And I'm sure he's just outside of yours. It's Nick Scowden from Texas A&M, who before the season was the Texas A&M edge that was getting the first round hype. More than Stewart, more than anybody else there, more than the guys that transferred away like Nolan. So you went back because I'll set the stage for Scowden. He weighed 265 at Purdue.

Very good player. Top 15 on my big board. I think on a lot of people's big boards, he was a first round projection. Goes to Texas A&M, puts on 20 pounds, does not look like a first rounder. Looks like a where I have him, somewhere at 72, somewhere around that range. If that. What did you think when you watched him and evaluated him and maybe, and you went back and watched him that 2023 Purdue film and what were the comparisons and differences that? Oh my God. Like it's,

I think people, if you've watched Nick Scoward, you have to go back and watch some Purdue stuff. You absolutely have to. Because you kept saying that to me. And then in the lead up, I was like, you know what? I might as well just get to it and just watch something. I had the game film of Michigan Purdue from 2023 left over from last year. Yeah.

Holy crap, dude. Okay, so first off, the Purdue stuff, the Michigan game for 2023, you could convince me that Prime Melvin Ingram slipped into a Purdue uniform for that game. They're built exactly the same. Exactly the same. It's like the 6'1", 6'2", 260-pound guy that's got some real burst and power. And, like, dude, he's hammering...

Yeah, like he's hammering guards on the line of scrimmage for pulls. He's got spin moves. He's got speed. Like he's chasing down J.J. McCarthy in the open field. We know J.J.'s a pretty good athlete when he's healthy. He's getting like tackle for losses in the backfield where he's slipping behind offensive tackles and chasing down Blake Horn from behind.

And that is just not the player that I watched at Texas A&M this year. Because when you were like, oh, no, you got to watch Purdue. So I'm like, how different could it be? Really, how different could it be? It's the same exact guy. But no, it's totally, totally different. Almost to the point where I'm looking at this Texas A&M staff. I'm like, you asked that guy to gain 20 pounds to play football?

like some bastardized like four eye, you know, edge player role. Like what are you guys thinking? Because you had a first round edge rusher. And honestly, some of the games for Purdue, like that stuff that I would feel fine taking the top 10. Just when you look at all the entire skill set. In a way, like I almost feel bad for him because whatever game

decisions were made for him in his role at Texas A&M have ended up causing him a lot of money because he didn't look that way. He didn't look the same player at Texas A&M. And honestly, I think going back and watching the Purdue stuff gives us some context on where he is now because, dude, if you gain that much weight that fast, it

there's going to be some bad weight. You're not going to be as explosive as you were. I mean, honestly, because I remember I was saying the first time I watched him, one of the first thing I said to you guys was like, dude, this guy's built like a jelly roll three technique. Why is he standing up on the edge? And it turns out because he was just asked to gain so much weight for this role that didn't fit him. So that's where the projection gets interesting.

because I don't know, like you never know if someone can get back to what they were in the past, but still a young man. You know, shoot. I don't know how many times. It doesn't turn 21 till August.

- Okay, yeah. I can't tell you how many times I was able to change my body in the blink of an eye when I was 20. It wasn't no thing. Wasn't no thing. So there's definitely a world where he can get back to that 260 range where he's a lot more explosive and actually has some serious pass rush potential off the edge.

I just can't believe that they turned him into what he is now because that's not what he used to be at Purdue. It's insane. They massacred my boy. In 2022, as a freshman, two sacks. Okay. 2023, 10 sacks, three PBUs, 50 tackles total.

Then he goes to A&M, five sacks, 37 total tackles. And he looked like a plugger like this year, like a defensive end, rugged, you know, tries hard, not a good athlete. It's all about effort and strength with him and being thick and

And then I just get like, you know, throughout this whole year, I was just like, I swear, I swear this guy was legit. I swear. He even changed his name. He used to have a different last name before this year. Um, Skorton. I always say Skorton, Skorton, Nick Skorton. Um, but he's like, maybe I was wrong. It's so hard. I know it's so hard. It's scour. Isn't it? That's scour. It's Skorton. I, you know, I always have to double check it. Um, but there's just something to him because I, I think that Purdue film, um,

I mean, he was pulling out that you mentioned the spin move. The spin move was devastating. Like it was, you don't see that in college where a guy's efficiently using a spin move. And that usually speaks to explosiveness and some bursts that you have. Do I think he's a freak athlete? No, I think he's more of a solid athlete, but at 265, 268 and being a strong 265 athlete,

getting some sacks in there, going against the pass, or getting after the passer, and also can hold up against the run. I actually do think that was the one thing he did while still in A&M was he held up. He was able to set the edge. But I do think – There you go. Shout out there. But I'm betting on the Purdue side more than the A&M side.

because he's so young. He's still 20 and doesn't turn 21 until the end of August. That's interesting. Cut some weight somewhere in that 260, 270 range, somewhere in there. I think that way you can get some balance with him, but there is still something to him. That's why I even ended up. I still think Skorton has something to him and could be a great find if he plays more like his earlier thinner version. Doesn't have overwhelming tools, but he's physical and he makes blockers earn in every play.

And if you get a little bit more burst than that, that's a fun player. So I didn't want to talk about him because it's like he fell and it's not from a character reason or anything. It was just like bad, bad fit, you know? And that's, that's going to happen a lot. I think with NIL, there's going to be more and more of these kinds of stories where a guy transfers. It's like, Oh, come play SEC football, you know, stay in the big town, go to the Badgers. I'm sure they can't, Badgers can't afford A&M money. Yeah.

I get it. I get it. I get it. I, but you know, maybe we were looking at the net assets of where he was last year. Yeah. You know, it was a great decision. I know. Uh, but no, everyone make sure to check out these videos.

Big boards, they'll be up on Yahoo by the time you listen to this. 75 names plus five more because we can't help ourselves. All the positions, all the good stuff. That's it for the big board stuff, but we're going to take a break and come back with Charles's interview with head coach of Colorado, Coach Prime, Deion Sanders. See you guys in a sec.

Hey, everyone. Ariel Hawani here. I wanted to take a minute to tell you all how you can be using TurboTax to file your taxes this tax season. Their done-for-you tax prep solutions make filing taxes easier than ever because their live tax experts will prepare, sign, and

file, and get your taxes done for you so you can have more time focusing on the things that you love doing, like listening to interviews, discussions, and debates five days a week across Uncrowned. And you can do it all knowing TurboTax has you covered. So make sure you file by April 15th with our friends at TurboTax.

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We are joined by Coach Prime's Colorado Buffaloes, Deion Sanders, football fame. Coach, how are you doing today, man? Thank you for joining us on the show. Thank you for having me. Where are you located? I live in Brooklyn. I've been here for about five years. Used to cover the Giants and the Jets and just haven't left yet, honestly. So it's a good spot for me so far. I don't know if I'm a New Yorker. I think I'm a country boy, man. It's hard. Like New York and L.A., those two places are really tough for me.

I mean, my family is really from deep South, like half my family is from Mississippi. My family lives in Charlotte, North Carolina. So I'm a Southern boy at heart, but I kind of fell in love with the with the big city. But, you know, we want to have you here to ask some questions leading up to the draft. Obviously, this is a big moment for you. And I just want to first off ask you, what is it?

Like for you being on this side of the draft process with your son, Shador Sanders, obviously Travis Hunter, who's going to go high in the draft. What is it like for you kind of observing them go through something that you've already done before? Well, let's not negate the fact that I have two sons going into it. Two sons, right. I'm excited. I'm happy for them. I'm anticipating where they're going to go because this is the first time in their lives

that they don't have the capacity to call the shot. You know, you choose your junior high, you choose your high school, you choose your college, and now you're chosen. There's a lot of speculation going on, and we're excited about the prospects of where they're going to be. The dream is they could be together, but that may not happen.

What are some of the things that you've helped prepare them for as they go through this process? The negativity, the ignorance, the adolescence, the foolishness that goes on with people nacing you. It's like they build you up to tear you down. But we've been dealing with that our whole lives. And they've seen that. They've seen all these things. And it gives them a tremendous roadmap and a navigational system on how to handle it. And they're doing a great job. And I'm proud of them.

So would you start to go through this process? Obviously you have spoken about there are certain landing spots where you might not want Travis or Shador or Shiloh to end up. What, what makes up a less desirable versus a more desirable landing spot in your eyes? The front office are consistently bad when, when they make not intelligent moves, when they find themselves in this place of picking early every year and you, you,

You have opportunity to provoke change and you don't when opportunities laying right there before you. It's sort of like a lot of fans are fans and they just only blow on when they hot. But I understand and I know behind the curtains what lies there, because not only did I play for 14 years, I worked with NFL and CBS Sports and all that combined and Barstools for accumulation like 20 years. So it was the media knowing what's behind the curtain.

So you said recently on the million dollars worth of game podcast that there are certain cities where it might be an Eli. I guess, how do you go about putting that plan in motion and what are the potential consequences? I've talked to all the parties of the teams that fit that description. I'm not going in that direction right now because I know who they are. We've had a meeting of kind of like a meeting of minds that they can insure me. Some of those teams,

probably going to pick my sons anyway. You know, you don't have to get ruffled up over something that ain't going to happen no way. Like, we know you're going there. I would probably do something behind the curtains, but I don't need to.

OK, I got you. I want to switch to Travis Hunter real quick, because he has been adamant about his desire to play both ways in the NFL. As someone who has done that, you know, back in 1996, I saw you have 470 yards for the Cowboys while also playing on defense. How feasible do you think that is in the NFL? I guess what are kind of the challenges of it from your perspective? Very much feasible when you have a young man of that age.

I mean, he can do it. He's proved that he can do it. The thing about the college game, it's much faster than the pro game. The pro game is much slower than the collegiate game because college, you have tempo. You know, nobody's holding you. Everything is done at the line. So hats off to Travis. They allow him to do it, which they should. He's going to be phenomenal.

So you think he could just go full ways, start on both sides, wide receiver, cornerback? Why not? I was wondering about the workload. Not like it hadn't been done, but he's done it at a whole nother level in college. So why not? Yeah. How did you manage to workload for him over the past few seasons working with him as a receiver and cornerback? Tremendous plan. I mean, all our guys that played 60 or 70% or more snaps on Saturday, they get Sunday off, they have to come, but they don't have to participate.

So he got Sunday off, Mondays off, normal off day, then Tuesdays as well. So now he started his work week on Wednesday. So his body recovered.

We certainly had a plan. As someone who played cornerback at a really high level, what are some of the traits that you see from Travis that might make him a coveted prospect on that side of the ball and potentially the first corner off the board in this year's draft? Well, to get corner off the board, he's going to be the first skill position guy to me off the board for certain. He has that intangible of he's a dog, he's a go-getter, he's a playmaker. 50-50 balls are his.

He's well-conditioned, he's smart, tough, and he loves the game of football. With all those attributes, you can't help but attract success. And that's what he's done.

So when you start to put together, I guess, this program at Colorado, right, because there were a lot of people at the start saying, oh, you know, I don't know if this is real. I don't know if this is going to be something that's serious. How did you end up building a program that has legitimacy to the point where people want to take your sons and they want to take Travis and people want to come to your program? This is not the first program we built.

This is probably the first program that they've taken notice to because it's not an all ethnicity African-American program. Let me just say it like that. We've done it at the youth level. We've done it at the high school level. We've done it at the HBCU level. Now we're doing it at the Power Five level. So we know what we're doing. So just because someone would naysay you and doubt you because they don't take it serious, we don't give a darn. We're not.

Doing what we do for the collapse of man and woman. We do what we're doing because we've been called to do it.

What was the transition like for you when you first got to college football as a head coach? Because there have been a lot of players who have tried to coach and hasn't turned out well. Obviously, you've had some success here. What were some things you think you did that worked out in your favor? This is what we do, man. I played football for a long time. I kind of know what I'm doing. Right. They don't put a gold jacket on your back and you don't know what you're doing. You got to know what you're doing.

You were able to sign or hire Pat Schirmer, offensive coordinator, who was the head coach up here for the Giants, Browns, Vikings, a lot of NFL experience. How did the switch from Sean Lewis over to Pat Schirmer help you guys perform last year? And how did it help potentially Shador get ready for the questions he's going to be asked?

throughout the draft process. Shador has been groomed by pros. He has a plethora of phone numbers in his phone of former pro athletes. Pat has been tremendous. He's been with us since I've been here in Colorado, but he just took over mid-season our first year here as the OC. And you're talking about a guy that has matriculated from the NFL that's here now is able to talk to Shador like...

the conversation would be at the next level. Play calling, like the plays would be at the next level, allowing him the capacity to change the play and get us in the play that we need based on the certain defense that we see. So Pat has done a wonderful job grooming him for the next level, and Pat is next level himself. Where do you see Shador getting drafted? What do you think would be an ideal landing spot for him? Someone who understands who he is, his skill set,

what he brings to the table, how he can affect the culture, what he is really, really good at, where he may have limitations. Someone that can see and someone that's willing to listen because he is. He is all of the things I just mentioned. What are some of the things you think that he's good at or some potential limitations that you see with him? He's smart, man. Chidori's very smart. Yeah, I mean, very smart. You can't lead the nation a complete percentage of you're not smart. You can't, I think, lead the nation.

in the history of the game, but completes your percentage. If you're not a really smart quarterback and can see the darn field, he protects the ball really well. I can't say his limitations, man, because you hadn't seen the best of him. So you're going to really get to see the best of him at the next level. And he's always provoked change into every program or organization he's ever been in, starting from youth all the way up.

He's a winner. We never lost. He's a winner. All right, we're closing it out today. Thank you to Charles for joining me on the big board off. A lot of fun and an interview with Coach Prime. A ton of fun as well. We'll be back on Monday.

What's some more draft stuff? Got plenty. Not so much prospect breakdowns, but we got some other stuff that were lingering questions and elsewhere that we're going to be looking at. But make sure to check that out on Monday. I am Nate Tice. You can find me at Nate underscore Tice on Twitter and Nate Tice on blue sky. Charles, where can they find you?

on social media. I know we can find all this stuff on Yahoo because you got 500 million things coming out soon. Yeah. Just stay tuned on Yahoo, Yahoo Sports for all the football stuff we're doing. We have an avalanche. We've been doing an avalanche of work over the past couple weeks. So please check it out. If I'm not on Blue Sky for avert,

Yeah, that's about it. I'm just going to try and hide for a couple of days before we get back to it. I think that's smart. I'm also going to try and hide. I don't think you'll be hearing from me for a few days.

if you I do want to hear from you guys oh look at that transition please keep sending in those mailbag questions we have time to get to them now we don't have any more interviews we don't have any two-hour positional breakdowns so please send them in to football 301 mailbag at yahoosports.com or leave us that five-star review on Apple Podcasts I do appreciate I get them all the time I'm sorry we haven't gotten to them so I really appreciate it guys I know it's become a running bit it's like hey just keep doing this you know it's like

Jimmy Kimmel has a running bit where he's like, oh, sorry, Matt Damon. We ran out of time. That's how I feel with the mailbag questions. But make sure to subscribe to us, follow us wherever you get your podcast. Rate us as well. Watch us on YouTube on the Yahoo Sports YouTube channel. Thank you to everyone behind the scenes. Thank you to everyone, everyone for listening. See you guys next time.

Hey, everyone. Ariel Hawani here. I wanted to take a minute to tell you all how you can be using TurboTax to file your taxes this tax season. Their done-for-you tax prep solutions make filing taxes easier than ever because their live tax experts will prepare, sign, file, and send you a tax report.

file, and get your taxes done for you so you can have more time focusing on the things that you love doing, like listening to interviews, discussions, and debates five days a week across Uncrowned. And you can do it all knowing TurboTax has you covered. So make sure you file by April 15th with our friends at TurboTax.

New Balance is redefining football cleats with innovation and best-in-class craftsmanship. The Prodigy, worn by Marvin Harrison Jr., is lightweight, supportive, and built for skill position players making game-changing plays. For the toughest battles in the box, Chase Young trusts the Fortress. Engineered for power with a high ankle collar and targeted heel support. Tested by real players at every level, these cleats set a new standard in football performance.

Learn more and get yours now at NewBalance.com slash football.