Top 10 quarterbacks for the 2025 NFL season + Sam Darnold joins the show!
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This episode of Football 301, Matt Harmon and Charles McDonald join me to rank some quarterbacks. We give our top 10 quarterbacks for the 2025 season. No contracts, no age, just this season. Who do we prefer? Got some interesting differences. Maybe not the top, but they're at the top 10. A lot of fun. Also, I have an interview with Sam Darnold, new starting quarterback for the Seattle Seahawks. Very fun interview with Sam. Super fun show. See you guys in a sec.

Hey, everyone. It's Ariel Helwani, and I wanted to let you know that over on Uncrowned, in partnership with Yahoo Sports, we are doing incredible things Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, and sometimes Saturday as well. We focus on the wild and wacky world of MMA Monday through Wednesday. It's the Ariel Helwani Show live on YouTube at 1 p.m. Eastern on Thursdays

My guys, the boys in the back, they're live also at 1 p.m. Eastern to talk about everything going on in the world of mixed martial arts. And then on Friday, we take you into the weekend with The Crack with Pete C. Carroll, also 1 p.m. Eastern live on YouTube. Now you can get all our shows on our official podcast feed as well. And don't forget, during every UFC pay-per-view, we've got a watch party and a post-show as well. It's madness over at Uncrowned. Come hang with us. ♪♪

Hello and welcome to Football 301. I'm your host, Nate Tice. Super fun show for you today. We are going to rank some stuff. We are going to rank our top 10 QBs for just 2025. No contracts, nothing long-term. I sound like a cell service, cell phone service. Just for who we rank in 2025. So basically at the end of the year, how we feel good about these rankings.

We are recording this in May because I'm on paternity leave by the time you probably listen to this. So it might be some time stamp things, but I don't think so. Unless something happens to any of these quarterbacks in a month, I think we'll be okay to record these. But we'll be doing ranking shows throughout the month of June. So make sure to check out all of those. But to help me do that today to rank these quarterbacks and rank everything really.

My guys first is Matt Harmon. How are you doing today, Matt? How are you enjoying your May slash June slash whenever this comes out? Oh, I'm sure I've never been happier. I've never felt better in my entire life. No, things are good. I'm excited about this. Quarterback episode always makes me a little bit nervous because it's such a moving target position other than some of the top entrenched guys. But I'm excited to get into it today.

Yeah, it's more the back half of the top five. That would get a little interesting that I'm excited about. But also throwing in his rankings today is Mr. Vertz. Even though he's for Vertz, he's given us 10 today. 10 players today. How you doing today, Chuck? Doing good. The sun is out in New York City again. We're back in like 70s to 80s with the sun, which is something you don't really get from like

uh november through the early april portion of the year so uh now that we have sun back i'm trying to be outside as much as possible but today you have me to rent quarterbacks everyone's favorite subject have to it's all that matters only position that matters 22 players we just got to talk about one of them right uh no that actually weather-wise

right before this it was 95 yesterday in vegas and then it dropped it is going to be high of 74 today and i'm like yeah so i was outside today right before we record this just get a little rejuvenation a little vitamin c vitamin d all right but again we're recording this in may we're going to be ranking these guys we're going to do a bunch of positions bunch of different things bunch of different superlatives that we're going to be ranking throughout this month but of course we have to start out with quarterbacks and at the

end of this show, I actually did a little interview with Sam Darnold, who had just moved to his house in Seattle. So in the middle of a laptop on boxes as I did that interview, but that will cap the show at the end of it. So make sure to check that out as well. We are going to start

With the rankings, we are going to list 10 through 8 to start. Give the little grouping there. See our differences. We don't know what we have for the top 10. We sent it to our producers, Stone and Madison. And then we just, we're going to see. We're going to see how it goes. So we'll start with 10, 9, 8. Charles, I will start with you because you are the top screen right now. And that's how I want to do it. What were your quarterback rankings for 2025, 10, 9, and 8?

10, 9, and 8. Okay, so 10, I have CJ Shroud, Houston Texans. 9, Jordan Love, Grimay Packers. And 8, Geno Smith, newly of the Las Vegas Raiders. That was the bottom three of my top 10. I love it. Matt, we'll get to yours. We're going to have a little analysis and discussion on differences after we give all of ours. But Matt, what were yours? 10, 9, and 8.

Yeah, I did like it. Obviously, we're not going to break these down. Like I did kind of tear mine. So just and honestly, all the honorable mentions I have here could easily be in the eight to ten. So just cover your ass out of there. Cover it. Cover it. Cover my ass before anybody gets mad at me. So my ten is Jordan Love. Number nine is Jared Goff. And number eight is Brock Purdy, who I feel really confident about going into twenty twenty five.

Wow. Okay. So, all right, before we get into that, my 10, nine and eight, that's perfect to start. My 10 is CJ Stroud as well. Charles, my nine is Trevor Lawrence. My eight is Dak Prescott. Jesus. I am a caricature of myself, but there are a couple of,

That just missed. But just like you just said, Matt, I probably had this tier, maybe one more guy in this tier. And then I had like five more guys that I could have maybe included in this grouping as well. But I'm going to start with maybe, you know, the one that stood out to me there was Matt. A little golf, a little Purdy there. What are the rankings here? Just hyper efficiency going with their production. Why do you have golf and Purdy there?

It is really tough just when you look at it from a production standpoint. Just golf consistently pops up there. Pretty not as much necessarily this year, but we know that there were some struggles across that offense for a variety of reasons. I'll just start with that, actually, with the...

Brock Purdy and the San Francisco 49ers. I'm really confident that that offense actually gets back on track this year. I know they probably could have invested a little bit more along the offensive line. I think nobody would have batted an eyebrow at that. But I think from a skill position player standpoint, I really like what they've got going on right now. I just finished up charting Ricky Pearsall for reception perception. I thought he was fantastic.

I thought it was fantastic in the last like four games last year. I think he is really going to bring a lot to that offense. And I think him and Purdy in particular are going to have a nice connection in chemistry to just get that efficiency back up. I also just think that Purdy is a really good anticipatory thrower. And maybe this is just me seeing things from the wide receiver angle. I love these guys that are the anticipatory throwers who can attack over the middle of the field. I also think he brings you enough from a verticality standpoint and

I was stunned when I consistently looked at just like the scramble metrics, just how efficient he is at just keeping the offense moving from a scramble perspective. So that's what ended up pushing him up to number eight in my ranking is because I'm generally just a Purdy fan. I think he operates that offense well, but I think he has also encouraged Kyle Shanahan. I think this has gone understated.

And Kershkowski had to kind of come out of his typical schematic shell a little bit. We saw them go to a lot of dropback stuff, kind of eschew the play action and gadgety things, just more true quarterbacking from Purdy last year. Overall, obviously, mixed results from the team, but I don't think that was a big part of it. I think there was just a season from hell for them. So I feel pretty good about Purdy being in this group. Goff definitely...

I wasn't as bullish about putting Goff here. He was definitely somebody that I could have put Dak there. Shoot, I kind of weighed Baker Mayfield in this spot. Matthew Stafford certainly could have been here. You guys had CJ Stroud. I could have put him in this regard too. But I just love the way Goff operates over the middle of the field. And I think he's kind of gotten to an underrated point as a pure thrower of the football. So I like Goff, and I'm not ashamed to admit it.

No, I've always been. So funny. It's like you said a slur. No, I, so I've always been a, I would say a defender of golf, but someone that's always just like,

I appreciate his game. I appreciate his strengths. I know what he is like, but it's just me. This is where the preferences come in. He put, maybe it's like a Billy bean thing. He plays so much how I play that. I'm like, no, I want more. I want a guy that creates a little more, like sometimes pressure unravels them. And I always like guys that can maybe just do a little bit more ad-libbing, but Purdy and Goff to me are always like that. Those two, because I consider them both better in Tua.

But I know those guys kind of get grouped together and get dinged because of the offensive systems and everything. But they operate really well. And those guys, I always have it like 14, 15 on these type of rankings, you know, like kind of like just outside. They are that next group for me. It's like the hyper efficient operators. And then sometimes how I view this is like, well, if I'm starting a team, you know, but I think that's what's really fun with eight, nine, tens. You kind of see everyone's preferences. I thought Charles dropped in Gino here at eight.

So I optimistic about the Raiders this season, too. And Gino's just a baller. I mean, you just look at the stats as well. And that's also want to bring up real quick is I was looking up success rate for the last three years. Just kind of give me just in case I had to throw a little stat out here. Purdy's on top. Number one. There's only four guys with over 50 percent success rate the last three years. Purdy, Mahomes, Josh Allen, Jared Goff. So I thought that was pretty significant. Point in your favor, Matt, if you want to argue that way. But Gino Charles, why is he your number eight?

Um, just because I thought by the time he had finished his career in Seattle, he was a quarterback that could carry a pretty heavy workload for the offense in terms of dealing with pressure, which was tough.

constant for Seattle last year. They had some really bad games, whether it's due to offensive line skill or how they were playing together their game plans with Ryan Grubb, who was fired after one season of the offensive coordinator. I thought Geno was a consistent floor raiser in ways that maybe other quarterbacks can't be, where I feel like there's a lot of quarterbacks where if you put them behind Seattle's offensive line last year, they probably crumble, and they don't.

push for playoff contention each year because we see quarterbacks who don't like to get hit, don't like the pressure, they'll

they'll fall after a few hits. But Gino, it's kind of like what Gino kind of reminds me of is, you know, the family guy bit where they have the old lady in the boxing ring and Mike Tyson keeps knocking her out and she keeps getting up. She was like, oh, what are you going to hit me with this time? That's what it kind of feels like with Gino. And the accuracy, the ability, the willingness to attack down the field. I just think he's a really, really good quarterback that rates your floor kind of

no matter what you have around you. Now, it's not going to be raising your floor to the point where, oh, if we have Jalen Smith, we can win the Super Bowl, but it's enough where you feel like you can probably compete for the playoffs if you have enough pieces around you.

it's funny. I actually thought there, there's a Simpsons bit with the exact same bit where Homer becomes a boxer, uh, the Homer, they fall. And it's the same thing. They had like a Mike Tyson ripoff character in that. And the same thing, he just, his, why is he good boxers? He can just take a thousand punches until the other boxer tires himself out. So I thought that's where you're going with that, but that's kind of how Gina feels too. But that, yeah, somewhere, somewhere. Yeah. Simpsons already did it. That's how it always works. But the, uh, no, the Gino is just, I,

I, I had him as my honorable mention, like my cover, my ass list, because I really just everything you said, he's kind of the high wire act quarterback. And I appreciate that. It's hell or high water. If he has the deep ball, the intermediate throw, the tough throw, and that is an available option, he's going to take it. And it's never where I'm like, why'd you do that? You know, it's like, that's how he plays.

And so I always just kind of appreciate that too. So I, I almost nailed through him at 10 because I just appreciate Gino's game, but he just missed my list. But no, I really liked that one. But Matt,

And Charles also had Jordan Love in their initial list. And I might have him soon to come. So I don't want to... But Matt, why'd you throw in Jordan Love in there? Optimism. They finally figured out the receiver room. Hi, I'm Matthew Golden. What do you want to see out Jordan Love maybe this year that has him in your top 10? I mean, I just think Jordan Love is a really fun player. He's a daring quarterback. He's a little bit of...

I don't want to say like maybe like a Diet Coke version of Matthew Stafford at his best. And by the way, I didn't have Stafford in my top 10. I don't know if you guys will. I mean, we'll find out later. I didn't have him in my top 10 just because I think he's coming off his his worst season as an L.A. Ram. Maybe. I mean, you know, 2022 is obviously a disaster, but they share similar DNA and that just they were.

They're very daring quarterbacks, which I think, you know, they're all probably, you know, too. I think Jordan Love probably from a decision making standpoint, probably is the worst of this group at their at all of their respective very best. But I think he also could tap into a little bit more as just a mobile quarterback, too. I think like not that he's ever going to be Lamar Jackson or Jaden Daniels or, you know, Josh Allen or something like that. But

I actually think they could lean into his mobility a little bit more when he is healthier, hopefully here in 2025 and beyond when he was in 2024. So altogether, it just kind of felt like at times the Packers passing game never, it was like a little bit of a star-crossed lovers thing. They just never quite got the timing right, whether it was wide receivers were injured or Jordan Love was injured or off

defensive line was banged up, especially there towards the end of the season. I am pretty confident just in the system overall, but especially just Love as a player. I think arm talent-wise, he can be up there with any of these top players. If he just smooths out from the decision-making standpoint, I definitely could see him jumping up a tier in this list. Yeah, well, that's why he may be a little higher. I'll hold my thoughts real quick on him because maybe I'm always bullish on Jordan Love, as you guys will see in a sec. But Charles, this is the last kind of little guy that we had shared in this initial little ranking. That's CJ Stroud.

Nothing tempered you off of him last year. Me either. I had to throw him in. It's one of those where every time I watch him, I'm like, oh yeah, you're sick. You're really cool. And I think maybe just...

It's kind of nice right now watching a little bit more NFL film again and seeing the refs in the proper places and offensive line that knows how to protect and the quarterback that can complete an out route and stuff like that. So, but watching Stroud again, I'm like, oh yeah, you're good. Like you're good. So optimism for this year, you think just cleaning up the old line, that's why you want them in your top 10. Cause that's what led to me putting them in the top 10 is I, I still think he's a hell of a player that the ecosystem, as we like to say, I think got a little bit of a lift this off season.

Yeah, I honestly, I feel the same way I do about him after his rookie year. Yeah. I think he's just really still a fantastic quarterback. Like you said, the ecosystem deteriorated around him, but he

He still did just enough where they were able to compete for the playoffs despite having those problems. Like the run game was really, really bad for most of the season. We know the offensive line struggles. The wide receiver room got decimated by injuries. But, you know, there's CJ just kind of fighting for his life out there, doing just enough every week.

where they have a chance to stay in these games. And that was even kind of true, I thought, in that playoff game against Kansas City where he did ultimately make some pretty bad plays at the end of the game to close it out with some big sacks. But still, he did enough just to keep a pretty bad group alive. So now we talk about the offensive line.

a few times. We'll see how that turns out. But the receiver room additions, I think, are real. And you should have Nico Collins back healthy for a full year, hopefully, this season. So there's definitely room for improvement. And I think as long as he's there, you'll have a chance to have competent offense each week, even as things are falling apart a little bit. Yeah, you know what really...

got me excited was last year in the playoffs. He just started scrambling and he starts creating and CJ is never going to be a scrambling first quarterback. He wants to sit in the pocket and dice you up, which is why I love him and why I think he's going to be so cool throughout his career.

I mean, he's 20. He's not even 24. He turns 24 in 100 days, 130 days by the time the season, I think, starts. But it's just that, man, you don't see guys pristinely operating out of this. A guy that should have been a red shirt senior last year.

you know like and we're looking at some other guys and how they operate they're coming out older and i think he's such an advanced player i thought he pressed so much in the second half of the year but that makes sense because just what was happening every receiver is falling apart their offensive line is switching laramie tonsil doesn't know how to pick up a blitz so i kind of was getting like why he was like i gotta do this like this is what how i have to play um so i it was cool seeing him become a little more creator at the end of last year almost like

You know, bringing back that Ohio State Georgia game where he kind of everyone's like, oh, you can do this. And it's like, yeah, good. He can he can throw that into his element, throw how he can win and play to play the quarterback position. I have to include my top 10. I just like him so, so much. Matt, is he in your list or is he did he not make? Yeah.

He was one of my tougher cuts. He was one of my tougher cuts. Again, my honorable mention group would probably be Dak Prescott, CJ Stroud, Matthew Stafford, and Baker Mayfield in some order, kind of making up the rest of the top 14, which again, I think is all in the same tier as all those players I talked about. So I'm not going to really fight you hard if you want to have this guy here or there. With Stroud, the thing I'm excited about in 2025 is that I kind of had this thought about him even early on in his second season. Does this guy really need to be

like a Shanahan quarterback, you know, and at times I've said like Bobby Sloak basically just ran like the greatest hits of the Shanahan playbook as the Houston, Texas offensive coordinator, which worked in year one. It did not work in year two for a variety of reasons, but I'm actually excited to kind of see him out of that incubator and like we'll see what Nick Cayley brings to the

the equation here but yeah maybe more more true drop back stuff similar to what the Niners just went through with Purdy I actually like I mean I kind of I just haven't seen it yet but I would rather see Stroud honestly in a situation like that even than a guy in Purdy who I ranked as the eighth quarterback here so I am really excited about him this year uh maybe just a little bit of cowardice not having the proven concept for me to leave him off the top 10.

I get it. He almost missed it. And I was like, I got to include him in it, but that's a great point. I liked him. See him almost in a burrow ish type of offense where it's just let him be the point guard back there. And just cause he's so smart and just really is. He's a, I just so advanced as a processor. So, and he's so accurate and a quick throwing motion, everything. So I would like to see more on his plate. I like to see, I think he can handle protections. I interviewed him and I'm like, he knew the stuff.

after his rookie year that was like okay you actually right more than most shanahan quarterbacks know this and so i want to see more on his plate and maybe see that next launch um the only guy i have to throw him in here too was my trevor lawrence at nine i'm the only one that has them in my top 10 as uh producers have noted this is more a bullish assessment of 2025 and i should have probably had him below stroud if i'm being honest but i am

excited to watch him in this Liam Cohen offense. I'm excited to see the weapons around him. And I think Trevor was playing really well last year when healthy and when everything wasn't and when his head coach wasn't just going into the next press conference to just say, like, make fun of them or do like, like, actually get a nice environment.

to build up your franchise quarterback, you know, have a, you know, everyone encourage him and everybody say like, yeah, this guy's our guy. So I, this is more of an optimistic slant. This is not based on 2024. This is like, no, I still with him. I'm still, I've always been bullish on Trevor. I just think that now this year, maybe this offense get out of the Doug Peterson, Mickey mouse offense, but,

get out of that RPO heavy world. Not that Trevor can't do it, but it's just that maybe getting him to be a real boy and be the drop back quarterback. He's still so young, even though he's on his second contract. So I've always been, again, a guy that's bullish on Trevor. I think finally this year,

All right. Okay. Now I think we got some competency going on. I hope I really hope, and maybe we'll be in three months. I'm making new excuses for him, but no, I just always optimistic on Trevor. So any, any reason I should be blemished? Did he make any honorable mentions for either of you guys? Or am I just so, so way too high on Trevor Lawrence?

No, I don't think you're too high. I didn't do any honorable mentions because in my older age, I've kind of subscribed to the Tyler, the creator school of internet bullying. If you don't want to see it, just log off. So I'm going to stand tall on my top 10. This is your golf wing. Yeah.

I'm still pretty high on Trevor. I think there's a real chance that he breaks out this year. And it's just like the high plays and the high games that he has are so damn good.

I just don't really see why anyone would just throw away their stock on him. And especially with the new ecosystem that's going to be coming in. If you can just get the offensive line to play a little more consistently and he can stay healthy, I think there's a real chance for a breakout here. Especially now that he has got Travis Hunter and Brian Thompson Jr., which might be the most athletic one-two combo in the entire league. Yeah. God, even looking at his stats, people are going to roast me for this.

I was going to say part of part of me wanted to say like halfway through your discussion there, like, well, you know, maybe he can have a season that's like 80 percent as good as one of Jared Goff's best years in Detroit. And then we can have that. So rough. He said a career high in QBR last year. Fifty nine point five. Didn't break 60 yet. I'm telling you, I'm telling you, just keep the stock. I'm going to keep accumulating. I'm like smog.

I'm just going to accumulate all the stock of Trevor Lawrence stock and sit on it. Honestly, if I have... And look, maybe I'm just an outlier on Baker here, but if I have Baker in top 14 consideration after a year in Liam Cohen's offense, I think we all got to remember what we thought about Baker Mayfield two to three years ago. And that was...

I think the stock on that was even lower. I mean, he signed for like a $4 million deal on Tampa Bay after, after what he went through in Cleveland and then Carolina. Yeah. Yeah. He was cut mid season with the Panthers and then picked up by the Rams. I mean, that's how low that stock was. And he's again, someone that like statistically is one of the most productive quarterbacks over the last two seasons. So we could definitely be as much as like, yeah, part of me wanted to make fun of you midway through the,

the Trevor Lawrence thing. I think we all should realize like just where we were with Baker and he's again, statistically, you can make the case that he's a top 15 quarterback in the league. I think Trevor could get there by the end of the season. Yeah. Trevor is my favorite.

bullish for 2025 take i would say my top 10 dac a little bit as well which we'll talk about because i'm assuming he's on your guys's list as well just based on the notes we're going to get to number seven and six right now charles who were your quarterbacks that you have ranked seven and six seven six i have uh seven dac pras that that prascott dac prascott and six uh matthew safford for seven six for me

Okay. And Matt Harmon, who were your seven and six? Seven was Jalen Hurts. Six was Justin Herbert. So the Eagles fans can be nice to me on this episode.

Jalen Hurts did not make my top 10, and I don't think he made Charles' top 10 either. No, I didn't think about it. My seven and six, I had Jordan Love at seven, and I had Matthew Stafford at six. So, yeah. God, this is such a...

Once I put names to paper or digital paper, I was like, yeah, I haven't changed at all. Every year, it's like some reshuffling the same 12 guys in some way, shape, or form. All right. Seven and six here. Jalen Hurts.

Matt Harmon, why do you have the defending Superbowl champion quarterback in your top 10? The, the audacity to include him. What a jackass. Unbelievable. Take by me, the guy I will say like, yeah, maybe the ring really does do a lot for the discourse here. Uh,

both making it more positive and more toxic on certain ends of the internet here. But I just, again, to, even though this is how we're grouping it, when I ranked these guys out, I actually included Hertz with that tier that we just discussed. So again, that's fair. If you stylistically prefer Dak or you stylistically prefer, I'm just, I'm not nervous about Stafford, but I'm a, I'm a little bit, I'm not, not nervous about certain parts of last season. I do think if he's protected and he has good weapons, he should be fine. But,

If Jalen Hurts is protected and he has good weapons, he is also fine. Like results wise, it's been very good for him. I also think, yeah, there are clear. And we talked about this a lot over the course of the last year, even as they're winning the damn Superbowl, we've talked about the deficiencies of Jalen Hurts and maybe where he's not as willing or able to work over the middle of the field as some of these best quarterbacks and like drive that deep in breaking route. But the stuff that he's good at, he is really, really good at, I mean, I,

And he has the receivers to cash those checks when he writes them. You know, he has A.J. Brown to throw go balls. He has Devante Smith to throw go balls. But the placement on those throws is really good. And he can access like what I would call true heartbreaking dagger, you know, inducing throws to an opposing defense when he's able to attack deep and outside the numbers. So also just what he brings as a rusher, you know, some of it's push push stuff, but

I do think just that helps the offense a ton to just keeps things on schedule. There was even some big plays in the playoffs where, of course, that he's working on in tandem with a great talent at running back. But, you know, he's able to when those plays are available, he's able to take those as well. So I just think he's a yes. They've catered the offense to be what Jalen Hurts needs it to be over multiple coordinators. And we're getting another coordinator here this year. We'll see how that goes.

But the results of that offense are very, very good. So it's hard for me to push him too far outside of the top 10. Charles, before I get into my rebuttal, why did you have Hertz not in your top 10, I should say? I was looking at this kind of like if I were to start an offense,

and I had nothing else like which quarterbacks will I go with uh I just don't think he'll be that close to the top 10 uh just based on on how I was how was approaching it uh because I I just feel like he needs so much to get going and even when even though even in this within this ecosystem they've had stretches of games like where they can't throw the ball which to me is just

It's absurd. Like you have one of the best offensive line we've seen, A.J. Brown, Devonta Smith, a really good ecosystem for that. And they still go through stretches where the production is not there, which is crazy.

kind of like, for me, that's all I need to know. Because if I put... To me, I feel like if I put... If I were to give, like, CJ Stroud this infrastructure, they would probably win the Super Bowl, too. If I were to give a lot of quarterbacks this infrastructure, they would win the Super Bowl or get close. And that's not really to take... I'm not trying to take too much away from Jalen Hurts. I just think...

as a passer, he's, he's, he's pretty, pretty limited. Um, and when I put him up against some of the other Russian quarterbacks, it's not always as clean, uh, for him, especially like when he's running horizontally, uh, outside the pocket. So I, I, I still view him as a pretty limited quarterback, but, um,

I think our friend Stephen Ruiz puts it in a good way. Good football player, average quarterback. And that's how I feel about Jalen Hurst because obviously he's someone that you don't mind having as your quarterback. But in a vacuum, if everything was equal, I don't think he's raising the floor for your offense as much as the other players are.

I think that's Charles put it there is kind of what I agree with, too. I always view this as like, all right, starting from blank, which isn't fair because we're like ranking them for 2025, how they could do here. But we're also doing like, oh, how would I pick them for this year? So that that's the thing is I respect what his game is.

I would say if I'm dropping on a neutral team or switching quarterbacks and all that, he's lower on that ranking. That is also how we play in the Super Bowl, though. That, of course, is what it's going to be in everyone's memory. The games leading up to that were really rough. They were like Charles was saying. It was like throwing the ball was an adventure. And you can really he was really breaking pocket all the time. You could tell he wasn't trusting because they had a couple of line injuries to or at least banged up guys. The Rams game.

and the playoffs, like, I mean, he was, you couldn't drop back. Some of that again was the offensive line, but again, top quarterback plays. How do you mitigate that offensive line when you do have the blemishes and things? And so that always is burned in my brain about how he plays the bales to the left and throwaways bills to the left and throwaways. But I also thought having said all that in the Superbowl, he was, it's the classic line. I always like to say, if you make a mistake, make it fast. Or if you make a decision, make it fast.

And there he was one, two, three balls out. Okay. I'm going to scramble in the second half. I think he had a scramble goes in between the tackles as opposed to bailing to the right or bailing to the left. He planted his foot, got North. Like, and I'm not trying to be funny or like a good running back. And, but that's what I want to see more of Jalen hurts. And if he showed that for nine, 12, 14 weeks last year, I'd be,

But instead, I'm kind of just feeling the same about him, which I've always been a lower player, a guy on him or evaluator on him. But I still like I think Charles has put it best or Steven, I should say, really good football player. And he does some things. He's so tough. And I really respect that.

Just some quarterback things. He doesn't handle protections. The passing stuff is still kind of like he's really good at certain throws and certain throws you would never ask him to do. That always just kind of leaves a little like leaves me lower on him than maybe some of these other guys that prop up here. You know, like Trevor Lawrence, who threw like 12 touchdowns last year. But so that's maybe why it's kind of kept him off. He only threw 12 last year?

He was hurt. He was hurt. 11. 11. Okay. Hey, but his TD rate. His TD, seven picks? Yeah, perfect. That's exactly how many sacks he took. Oh, nice, almost 6% sack rate too. That's great. That's exactly what I want in my top 10. Charles, you had Dak Prescott at seven, who I had at number eight. Why did you have Dak in your top 10? I mean, to me, it's kind of like a...

It's kind of like a Geno plus, I guess, is how I view Dak. Because I think I've even said on the show before that I kind of felt like Geno had moved into Dak tier where it's like, okay, if I have you on the field, we will look like a competent... We will at least look like a competent offense. And I think that's kind of how I feel about Dak. But I think Dak is a little more consistent on the high-end throws. And I think one thing I love about Dak that...

leaves him open to a lot of the scrutiny that he faces, that he is willing to try some of these more...

you know, uh, difficult throws on the football field where, you know, yeah, yeah. He's not afraid. He goes, Hey, he goes, Hey, that throws open run over the middle. You're gonna get your head shaved off Jack for Jake Ferguson, but yeah, let's, let's go do it again. Go, go try it again. Go through a laser beam at your head, 25 yards down the field, please catch it. Uh, but I, I, I, I just respect the willingness to try. And I think that

those those traits are what gives him the ability to keep the Cowboys afloat every year and to get them to the playoffs every year. I know it hasn't been probably as productive as he would like once he gets to the postseason. But the fact that you feel like you can get there every year with this quarterback is is a

with him as your quarterback is good enough to get on this list. And I just think he does so much from a pocket perspective in the left. You do really anything you want in the passing game. It's more just kind of like the the consistency on the accuracy down the field maybe is what keeps him from the top of the list for me. But I really do think he's one of the best quarterbacks in the league and some of the discourse around him gets really tiring to me because I was like, man, this guy's really, really good. Just need more people to see it.

unless he gets paid a lot of money yeah that does help you know it's the woody harrelson sopping away the tears with money yeah uh i so i don't sandwich matt and go like hey why don't you have him your top 10 and i go and i put him in so when i tag team him again here so i've always been a guy that really likes dac because just like he's quarterback teaching tape like him golf

um, are probably the top two in my head that I would teach a guy Stafford. I wouldn't teach because he does things that aren't human, you know, and there's some of these guys that just have those gifts. Dax, Dak has maximized what he's got. And I just, he is a pristine operator and it's almost an old school quarterback. Like him and Stroud have a lot of the same DNA, um, and just how they play. They don't want to be an athlete and scramble. They can do it, but you know, that's not how they want. They want to be in the pocket. One, two, three, ball out one, two, three, four, five ball out.

And I just love that. And I think this offense this year, this is making sense to me. The pickings trade, the offensive line improvements. So that's why I am more kind of bullish on Dak. He is a guy I've always been high on. I have him at eight here. He's kind of the king of this tier. Matt, you kind of mentioned like seven through 14 or eight through 12 here. Dak to me is always the king of that tier. Like that, I would say tier three, I guess, is how I consider it. Like he's the king of tier three.

And so, yeah, that's where I am with Dak. I've always just been a fan. I know, Matt, you said he's part of this kind of chunk. So I don't think you're just like, oh, I hate Dak Prescott. It's just more that maybe you prefer the other guy. So totally get why you ended up here.

Yeah, no, I've actually generally been a Dak Prescott defender. Yeah, I know. I really like him as a quarterback. I know, yeah, you've always been a complimentary of him. Yeah, just worth noting, I think he probably didn't play his best football before going down last year with the injury. It was a weird first month of the season. Really weird first month of the season.

It's sort of, kind of, but probably not a new offense this year under Brian Schottenheimer, who was obviously there previously. But I do think they can actually do a lot of things to make Dak Prescott's life easier this year. I think they're going to use more motion. I think they're going to run a lot more play action than they did last year. But you just made a great point about this. He's a guy who can handle being the old school quarterback. I do think that has, in some circles, gotten him better.

like an additional bump, you know, like, oh yeah, he does all these things with like the old quarterback. That's right. He still also makes some really puzzling decisions at times and, and you know, we'll, we'll, we'll cost them in not, I wouldn't say big moments, but we'll, he will cost them. But so do all these guys in this, in this group. So that's why I do think like putting him as at best, he's like the King of this group. And I do think there's a chance that,

If Pickens is totally locked in this year, if Tyler Booker, the athleticism doesn't show up, like if those two things hit and somehow they cobble together a really good running game with, you

Like at this point, whereas we're recording this right now, Javante Williams, Miles Sanders and Jaden Blue, like two guys who have flamed out with their previous teams. And then a fifth round rookie, like if they come together really rookie. Yeah, right. I do like Jaden Blue, though. I do like him. No, I think it's an interesting idea, but he's still a fifth round pick rookie running back. And again, George Pickens, like the idea of George Pickens is always really good.

in practice, it's not always as clean game to game route to route series to series. So I do think there's still, it's still like teetering on. Yeah, this could be better than it was last year when he did have that down season. We could also teeter back into this looks a lot like it did to start 2024.

yeah no that's completely fair he and that's why he's like the aaron continental champion of quarterbacks it's like he's not the heavyweight champ you know he's but he's the he's the next title down like and he's like the kind of cut off between you're going to the world contender so i agree with you it's like that first month is kind of in my head too but then he was second team all pro two years ago and it's like that's in my head as well he's another year older he's coming off another injury though like those are also variables to kind of consider yeah i guess my thought process is uh

Last year, like statistically, it's such an outlier. I just don't think it's going to happen again. And that's that. Yeah, fair. Probably. Maybe I'm just throwing it away too much. I'm like, he almost never plays that bad that consistently. So probably won't happen again. No, I know. And the QB, like even just career QBR, like his, I know QBR is just one stat. It's just a nice little, but his year by year, 77, 70, 55, 71, 73, 60, 59.9. So 60, 72. And the last year was 45. Right.

But like almost every year above 60, I just mentioned Trevor Lawrence has never even cracked 60. You know that I know he's had a good offenses around him, but there is a reason for that. It's because Dak Prescott gives you a shot to win all these games. So. All right. So the last one or the one I also had in this little group, I Jordan love kind of going off with you guys saying I just love big game hunters. I think last year he just has some moments where he's he's this is his DNA.

He is going to make some of the stupidest decisions, but then he's going to act like it never happened. And he'll come back on the next series on the first play and rip one of the best throws you'll ever see in your life. And I mean that. And I don't just mean like, oh, very excellent. I mean, some of the best throws I've ever seen on film.

But he also has some of the worst throws I've ever seen on film and worst decision. I love that though. Like, and I think he's still so young, still learning this, getting in an environment that's just adding layers. You can see his comfort level.

I always thought when his first year starting full-time starting was he made the rhythm his own. Not everyone's going to have the same drop back in the same timing. It's just, you know, hopefully you get the ball out on time, but you can see his confidence growing where he's adding that extra little bounce. And it was just like, but it was his own timing.

And it's just really cool to see a young guy kind of do that. Like you could see it click for him. I thought last year was kind of a roller coaster, but the highs were still so high and this guy can complete all the throws I want to see. So it's just, I'm still staying bullish on him. I'm not including him in my top five. Like I did on a quarterback draft last year where that was also a future three, four years with contracts and everything, but I am still bullish on him for 2025 and really beyond if we were including that. And then the last one in this list that,

this kind of tier, Charles and I both had Matthew Stafford. I have him at six and Charles and I'm at six. Reasons for that, Charles, to include the old gunslinger in this? Basically copy and paste what you just said about Jordan Love. Right. Just an older version. It really is though. It's funny because I think when you look at

how Matthew Stafford played last year, it probably averages out to like an above average season for him. But the highs are like, oh my God, you can still get, he can still get out there and do the crackhead throws. I can't let go of it. So that's why he's at six. That's really it. That's it for me. And I'm optimistic about the Rams offense this year. I think it's going to be a really sick offense. So I think this might be his last hurrah.

you know, like a last real good year and then maybe starts tapering off. But I agree with you. The highs are just so high and I chase them. Stafford is the ultimate chasing the dragon quarterback. And I don't know. I'm going to light it up every time. We're going to take our first break and we'll come back with our top five QBs for 2025. All right. We are back. We are going to do quarterbacks five and four here.

Matt, you have, I'm going to let you start at number five and four. Producers have a note that number five is the only, you're the only one that has this guy in your top 10. So I'm curious to see who it is.

Yeah, I have Jaden Daniels at five. And then I have... He just missed. I almost put him at ten. Yeah. And then I have Joe Burrow at four. I have Justin Herbert at six. And I think, again, just from the tier perspective with me, I had Daniels and Herbert in a tier to those two guys. And then Burrow... I was actually waffled a little bit if he's in this tier or if he's in the tier with, I think...

everybody's going to have the same top three. But, you know, he's kind of on that little sort of borderline there. But just speaking to Jaden Daniels, I mean, that was an incredible rookie year. Like a rookie year you just don't see from a guy. For a franchise that was dog sh** for a year, like not just a complete joke. And I know that we've got

Obviously new ownership and new decision makers, new head coach. Everything is new in Washington. But still, to exercise those demons and be a big part of that for Jayden Daniels, I give a premium to that. Again, just the unnatural coolness of him as a player. I will never get over...

The fact that they kicked that game-winning field goal against Tampa Bay in the playoffs. And, you know, the kicker, I think it was Zane Gonzalez, he's like clearly super nervous in the moment. Everybody's super nervous in the moment. The kick goes through and they shoot the shot of Jaden Daniels on the sideline. It's like he just won a damn game of Scrabble on Tuesday with his buddies. Just completely...

unfazed by everything. And that's how he played. I mean, he was calm in the face of pressure. I think his, some of the pressure to sack ratio concerns were a little bit borne out at times, but for the most part, weren't a more anything, but like a huge anchor to his rookie season. He's so accurate. I think his placement is great. He sets up guys for yards after catch opportunities. And in addition to that, he can drop absolute, like whatever I said about Jalen hurts, like dropping deep outside the numbers, go routes, corner routes to a guy like H.

AJ Brown, Jay Nann is already better at that. Like he's already that guy, but even, even better. And I think he is way better working over the middle of the field. I thought, I thought I saw a lot of encouraging signs. Maybe somebody didn't expect to see from him as a rookie when he was working over that middle of the field. Now, just to kind of talk against myself, the more I thought about Washington's off season from an offense, offense perspective, I,

I'm a little concerned that it's like, I thought it's like, okay, we trade Debo and we get a, we trade a fifth round pick to get Debo in here. Like who cares? We can take on the salary. We can still add to that receiver room. They did not add to that receiver room. And I'm a little bit nervous. So like, all right, now wait, now outside spot across from Terry. Yeah. I'm a little worried too. Yeah. Like we're, we're going to do the Noah Brown thing again, or is it, or is it,

Like Debo is not even an out like he's not a slot. He's not he's just like his own little movable thing. And like maybe Luke McCaffrey shows us something in year two. But it feels like a lot more ifs than I was maybe thinking we'd get from Washington. But that's also the problem. Like, again, what makes his rookie season so impressive is that that was not a very good roster that he was working with last year. And you were never going to find a way to fill all of the holes and cover all the gaps.

I do like that they reinvested in the offensive line, getting Laramie Tunsil, getting Josh Connolly Jr. I think that's going to be a big deal just in terms of keeping him protected and allowing him to do what he does well, which to me is be hyper accurate and threaten all three levels of the field. So it might be bullish to say he's already a top five quarterback in the NFL. And, you know, but by the end of this coming season, I think that could be a consensus opinion.

That's no, I, that's why we're doing this. I, I, he just missed it. So he was that next couple of guys for me. And it was just one of those where it's like, I, I, this is how I was with Stroud last year as a

As much as I love Stroud, his rookie year, I was just kind of like, I got to see it again. I love him. I love patience was, was well born out. So, and I kept them at 10. So who knows how this works, but like Daniel's just for me, I just like, I don't know. It's not fair to him, but it's just like, I have to see it again, but it was such an impressive year. And the calmness is real. Like, and just that that's why they want close games and him just making big plays and,

He doesn't make a lot of mistakes throwing wise. His mistakes may become, you know, taking a sack. What I thought was so cool is the sacks he took, which was my big concern about him.

one yard loss, two yard loss, three. It wasn't these 14 yard drive endings. And they went on fourth down so much that it was a part of the, it was part of their philosophy was that just this hyper efficient attack that he was a big part of. And, and I, I thought he was a great athlete. I just thought his skinniness might've hurt him, but Oh my God, it was, it was remarkable to see him pulling out of so many tackles, clean breaking pockets, breaking contain every single week, not just a couple of bad opponents, but

that was really impressive. So I just kept them off. Not that it's, I thought it was an impressive rookie year. I know we'll talk about Herbert in a sec too, but Charles, who were your five and four before we get into that? My five and four, I had a five. I had Justin Herbert and four had Joe Burrow. I had the exact same number five and four. And Matt, before we took that break, he had Herbert at six and,

Kind of same tier. We're all kind of concerned here, but Charles explain your five and four. I look, I thought the, the Joe Burrow MVP talk was insane last year. I,

Win more games. Sorry. Just win more games. It's the Drew Brees argument. Don't lose to the Patriots in week one. How about that? Don't lose to one of the worst teams in the league in week one. Come on now. We can't be giving 9-8 quarterbacks MVP. That's heretical. September games count too. I want everyone to know that, right? They count the exact same as the ones in December.

He's kind of as one in the one win, loss or tie column. But he did. But like I understood like how people were potentially hyping themselves up to say that because he really did have an incredible year last year with the defense that had

no interest in playing football. It seems like most weeks where you're getting the shootouts with Lamar Jackson, you're trying to keep up with Justin Herbert on, on primetime football. So like I get where people were coming from, but he really did have just an incredible year. I thought it was his best season. And I thought it was impressive because over the past couple of years,

he kind of fell into like this little, he had, he, he had, he would have like long stretches where he would play like the most conservative version of point guard of football. And I was worried that maybe he had lost, uh,

some of what made him such a great quarterback prior to that. Because what's fun about Burrow is he's a guy, he doesn't have superhero arm strength, but it doesn't stop him from being a playmaker down the field. Obviously, Jamar Chase and Tee Higgins helps with that, but he is as much of a driver of that offense

as they are. So that's why I give him a nod over Herbert here. I thought Herbert had a good year too, but it wasn't quite like the, you know, kind of some of the supernova stuff that Burrow was doing at times. Herbert's high is still always high. And I, I've constantly have ranked Herbert higher than Burrow on these types of things. Just again, we're going to like who I'd prefer. And I'm always about traits and all that.

burrow last year and I I agree with you Charles that like I didn't agree with the MVP discussion all I also thought that we had two extremely good candidates anyways that I was kind of like why are we including a third but I watching burrow and I thought always this offense would plateau where it was like okay how

How much more are you guys adding to it? How much more can you possibly add Joe Burrow with your mind and everything? Turns out more. There are a lot more. And just seeing kind of his advanced feel, throwing guys open. You know, they don't run a ton of concepts. And it's kind of cool. It

It's very much how Peyton was in the aughts where they're only running five, six, seven plays. They dress them up a little, but then also he can just, just because he knows the coverages and knows what's going on. He can find that open throat, even if technically a normal human or normal quarterback on day one, wouldn't find that throw. He's manipulating things with his eyes. He's doing this, the ball placement stuff where there are some times I'll be like, man, that you got lucky because you have T Higgins there. And then you watch, oh, that's why he missed to the outside.

It's because he's thrown away from a defender or, and it's just that it does help when you have two studs at receiver that you have a lot of chemistry with, but he's part of the chemistry.

Like he, there's a reason that they can call double moves on fourth down. And it's not like a double move that just like other teams call double move and it's a sack and something bad happens. It's usually a touchdown or a first down or remember the giants game where they're kind of giving them some issues. And then he starts scrambling and he has huge scrambles on third down. It's just, he always does what's needed to do or what he needs to do to win. It was nice to him kind of finally healthy and seeing like, he's always had just something

You know, even the beginning of this year, I had like a scorching hot take. I was like, is he OK? Like, is he done? It turned out he was fine. It turned out he was great. And so I just really have started to enjoy his game. I always have. But I thought maybe even just the layers that he's adding, it's just really cool to watch, like kind of quarterback at the top of his powers, I guess is a good way to put it.

Same with Herbert. I always love the trades, the highs, always chase those. And it's just really cool to watch him in that offense. I hope he gets more help this year because, I mean, Charles, you talk about it all the time. It's like first and second down. All right, whatever the coaches can not screw up. All right, go get us, Justin, on third down. Go get us the first down, buddy. Throw it to Ladd. Yeah, good job. Who else are you throwing to? Stone Surratt.

No, no. Who else are you throwing to there? Okay. Is that Danny Kelly at tight end? That's such an obscure joke because Will Disley looks like Danny Kelly from The Ringer. But no, but really, it's just...

I'm always going to be with Herbert. I think we, other than Daniels right there, I mean, you have Herbert at six, Matt, and you're the low guy on him. We have him at five. Top six quarterback any way you shake it. And I don't think that'll ever change for me. But I think this is the exciting time. We all have the same top three.

And I'm sure everyone can figure out who those top three are. It's kind of the guys that are going to be fighting for this MVP every single year. Charles, once you go through who's on your podium, three, two, and one.

So I have Bo Nix. No, I'm joking. Oh, nice. Just make every fan base matter. Just every single one. I have Josh Fallon. Wait, am I doing all three? Yeah. All right. Yeah. Josh Fallon, Lamar Jackson, Pat Mahomes. Josh Fallon, Lamar Jackson. They can both be ranked too, honestly. I don't.

I can't differentiate. It's one of those things where that's one of the subjects where it's like, man, I'm not going to argue with you on Josh Allen versus Lamar Jackson. It's the same thing. You're going to be... Just appreciate him, man. Right. Either way, no matter how you slice it, if you have those guys on your team, you feel like you have a chance to win the Super Bowl every single season. I know that neither of them have, but I think one thing that...

I would really love sports fans to try and differentiate. Hasn't does not mean cannot. Like, if you're going to sit here and tell me that Josh Allen can't win a Super Bowl, come on, that's ridiculous. Like, we've all seen him play. You're going to tell me Lamar Jackson can't win a Super Bowl, that's ridiculous. We've all seen him play. They're two of the best quarterbacks I've ever seen in my whole life. And then Mahomes at one, that's just, he's Michael Jordan still. There was a brief...

Like one week window, I think, after the Super Bowl this year where people tried to force some Patrick Mahomes legacy discussion. And it just fizzled out because it's like, come on, we've all seen him play. We've all seen him play. We just saw what he did this year. We know what this is.

Right, right. Like that offense around him was not very good. They still made the Super Bowl. Now what happened when they got there was just utter annihilation, destruction and famine. But now that they're trying to recharge for another year, you know, as long as he's under center, they're probably going to be in Super Bowl discussion no matter what. So I think those are the top three that just about everyone would have right now. Unless I guess you like a really big Joe Burrow guy.

That's kind of how it is. Your top three, Matt? I'm assuming I'm seeing some more names, but I'm curious what three and two are. I also had Bo Nix at three. No, I had Lamar Jackson, Josh Allen, Patrick Mahomes. Yeah, I will say with Mahomes at number one, it's probably a little closer from one to two. I'm with Charles. Like,

Put Lamar and Josh Allen in a hat, pick a name. I don't care. Like you could ask me tomorrow and maybe I'd have Lamar at two and Allen at three. No one cares. Like it's if you're, if you're, if you're not a Ravens fan and not, or a bills fan and you're like passionately arguing about this discussion, um,

Get a life. I mean, I don't know what to tell you. I get it. If you wear the team's laundry, that's fine. It's part of your lifestyle. You've made that choice. But if you're not, you can make a different choice in how to spend your precious time here on Earth. But again, it's probably a little closer from one to two maybe than it would normally in a normal year. Like 365 days ago, it probably wouldn't have been as close maybe as it is now. But I still think Mahomes is the entrenched number one. There's a little part of me that just almost –

I keep having to tell myself, like, just let it go in terms of what I'd like the Chiefs offense to look like. Because even like working on Xavier Worthy, I got to like, it's put my brain. Let me look at Andy Reed's age real quick and let you know that 67 years old, this ain't changing. I know. It's not like, it's not as if I don't trust Reed and these guys to like figure it out with these guys.

kind of hyper-specific wideouts like a Xavier Worthy, like a Rasheed Rice. But there's a part of me that's

a little confused as to how that like because these guys both need role catering but in different ways but in kind of in kind of similar ways and i know that doesn't make sense and we're not going to sit here and break it down right now because it's not the subject but this like part of me was just like man what if we just had mahomes in an offense that had like three normal and very clear role receivers i think actually it would probably be number one with like a gap um not

Not that Lamar or Josh Allen necessarily play with those type of players either, but it's like Charles said. We've all seen him play. We know what he can do. I do think everybody kind of gets banged off their last performance. I think Herbert definitely gets banged off that when he was fifth in adjusted yards per attempt last year. And obviously people wanted to make a little bit of a, yeah, well...

Mahomes has had two horrible losses in the Super Bowl. Like Charles said, that talked to me. Two losses in the Super Bowl. Oh, God. Unbelievable. Two losses in the Super Bowl. How about those performances and those wins? How about the first Eagles win when they beat them? Yeah, my 3-2-1, the same. I went Lamar at 3, Josh Allen at 2, Mahomes at 1. But same exact things you said. 3-2, whatever. Pick them in the hat. Even though, like, two creative players.

They're talking about traits and everything. I mean, two guys you couldn't, like, if you went mad and people go, that's a cheat code. But you can't do that. And guess what? They do in real life. But those two do as far as arm talent, creation, the intelligence both play with now. Like, both of these guys have added to their, you know, I'm a sucker for this, but the pre-snap ability, protection stuff, diagnosing coverages and everything. Watching Lamar throw under Todd Munkin has been,

Like so fun, like just so cool to watch that passing game of all from just play action. Greg Roman shot plays to like actual drop back concepts and they run the deepest dig routes you'll ever see in your life because Lamar can throw it 30 yards on a line on the hash with preponderance.

pressure coming at him um so it's just these three guys i think they're magical and then if you want to include burrow in this tier like kind of that i think mahomes is on his own still but like what matt said it is a closer gap um but like yeah i get that especially after last season but i think these two are just like yeah definitively i feel amazing about them every week and just the process that they go through on top of just the crazy results they get and

I don't care what happened that Super Bowl with my homes. It's like I remember everything that happened before that and all the mouthwash he provides for that offense and everything he's done before. And I will take that every day and the toughness he plays with. How many times he's played like high ankle sprains and stuff and he's just and people make excuses for other guys, but no one ever goes over homes is playing with this.

Also, I got to hear about Quinn. Yours is a bleak for the last three months. You know, why don't I hear about my homes is high ankle sprain. Those suck. You know, like it's, it's funny. I hear about other guys injuries all the time, but not my homes is it's just like, cause he plays well.

I don't care what happened to Super Bowl, man. He's the best I've ever seen. I've seen Peyton in person. I've seen Brady in person. I'm not wavering off of that. The things he does are not fathomable on top of the stuff, the mental side that he's added to his games. He calls out fronts for the protection. He calls out how many defensive linemen there are. No other quarterback's doing that in the NFL. So, okay. And then on top of all the post-snap stuff. So he's the dude. I think he's going to be the dude until he retires unless, you know,

something crazy comes up. Arch Manning's pretty fun. I don't know if he's Mahomes, but he's pretty fun. I'm not going to say that though. I would have loved to see what the betting odds would have been like in terms of Quinn Ewer's name coming up at somewhere on our top 10 quarterbacks. There's other quarterbacks I thought of in the NFL, but I was like, I don't want to be mean right now. So that's it.

That was Quinn years getting thrown out of the bus. That was great guys. Great job. We are going to have plenty of these ranking shows receivers. We are doing next. Actually, we're recording that right after this. But to recap, Charles went starting at 10. Strat CJ Stroud, Jordan Love, Gino Smith, Dak Prescott, Matthew Stafford.

Justin Herbert, Joe Burrow, Josh Allen, a lot of J's there, Lamar Jackson, and Patrick Mahomes. Matt Harmon went, Jordan Love, Jared Goff, Brock Purdy, Jalen Hurts, Justin Herbert, Jane Daniels, Joe Burrow, Lamar Jackson, Josh Allen, Patrick Mahomes, and me, Nate Tice. I went, CJ Stroud, Trevor Lawrence, won't regret that, Dak Prescott, Jordan Love, Matthew Stafford, Justin Herbert, Joe Burrow, Lamar Jackson, Josh Allen, and Patrick Mahomes.

Mahomes. That was a lot of fun. We are going to take a quick break and then I'm going to come back with my interview with Sam Darnold where I sat down with him in May. Just talk some things. Talk about his first start. Talk about how he is in Seattle. Maybe check out the new rookies with the Seahawks. Super fun interview. See you guys in a sec.

All right, here with Sam Darnold, new starting quarterback for the Seattle Seahawks. He's kind of doing my life in the inverse. I started in Seattle, went to Minnesota. Now I'm on the West Coast in Vegas. You're SoCal, got Minnesota in there, now in Seattle. Already a flannel wearer, at least going off of your intro press conference, which is notable. But here on behalf of the Lowe's Foundation, how are you doing today, Sam?

I'm good, man. Yeah, it's the flannel was, you know, I thought it was a solid choice. I know I got a little, you know, I don't even know if I got flack for it, but it was definitely a talking point.

Um, but I thought I'd represent kind of, you know, Seattle, the, you know, the grunge era a little bit like, you know, a little Nirvana Pearl Jam kind of vibe to me. So I thought I'd, you know, give it a shot and, uh, Hey, I got attention. You know, they say all publicity is good publicity. So Hey, I'll take it. You worked it out. All you need to do is catch some fish at the market and you'll just check all the boxes for, for the Seattle stereotypes and you're good. Maybe visit the gum wall.

Like don't eat the gum on the street. No, do not do that. Absolutely do not. No, but no, it's very, I'm very excited to watch you and Kubiak's offense there in Seattle. But one thing I actually was curious about as someone that wore 12 and 14 throughout their life, just because of happenstance, 14 is a family number. I liked Brad Johnson. You've worn 14 throughout most of your NFL career or all of your NFL career, I believe. But you were 18 in high school. I'm

I'm just curious, what were some of the, did you have any background with those numbers or was it just like, Hey, 14 is my number now? Yes. That last part. Uh, so 18, uh, really. So in basketball, I was 15 and that's, that's really the number that resonated with me. That was my, um, grandfather's number that he wore in college.

uh, college playing basketball. Um, and so that's kind of the number that I wanted to have. I wore that in hoops. And then, um, I wanted 15, uh, when I made it to varsity, my sophomore year in high school and, but another, you know, a senior, um, a senior got, you know, to pick that before me. Um, and the only, the only number that was available one through 19 was 18. Um,

And so I picked it and kind of, you know, just kind of stuck. And that's, you know, that, that was kind of a story there and there's not much story and that's kind of how I like it. But, um, and then 14 at USC, it was just same kind of deal. You know, there was no, no real numbers available besides 14. And, you know, that ended up kind of sticking a little bit. Um,

And so here we are now rocking 14. Yeah, you make it work. I like that. I appreciate that. I like when someone gets, has a unique number. Not everyone could be seven, you know, 18 is kind of common a little bit, you know, 12. I, I had kind of a similar story, moved up to varsity way lower extent than you, but I was 12 and they gave me 12 or 19. And as you know, as a quarterback, you can't wear 19. So you can,

it's legal. Yeah. But you know, I'm not Johnny you, you know, I can't go that, you know, I can't really pull that off at all for me. Brown's flack out. But I also, you know, after watching it, USC, I was pretty high on you. And also that first start when you were with the New York jets, you played against the lions. Very fun. Monday night game, I believe finished 48, 17. I got two questions on it. One good, one bad. Your first touchdown was,

to Robbie Anderson, who's gone through some name changes, a player you actually had a lot of chemistry with multiple stops. It was against Cover 2. You rallied to it. Was that planned or did you just rally to it and saw that it popped open and then you're just like, I'm letting this go? It was a double move. It was called. It was, okay.

I was kind of, you know, I should have gotten to the check down. I think the newer me probably would have hit the check down. But young quarterback, I was like,

I'm going to wait for this thing to develop a little bit because the safety was kind of sitting low. And so I, you know, line did a great job, gave me a ton of time. And I felt like I had the ability to just be able to lay it down the field and didn't throw it necessarily as far as I should have or wanted to. But Robbie made a great play on the ball. Yeah, no, it was good. I was curious about that because you give a little shoulder shimmy on it. And then he takes he takes an inside stem. So was it like a corner and up like a seven up?

Yeah, you know, 7-Up, great reference. That's all I got. It was outside, so it was a double move, just kind of like a stutter and go kind of thing. Got it. I mean, it was seven years ago, so I don't really have...

And I watched it an hour ago. Cause I was like, I remember this. And I was like, I got, I got, and it was totally different than my memory. So, but I still had to ask it. Cause I've been curious about that throw for a few years now. Yeah, no, it was a, it was a fun moment, man. It's obviously first touchdown in the NFL. You can't really, you know, it's something that you remember forever.

Yeah. So the other other side of this is your first play or your first one of your first throws was a interception on a throwback kind of play, like a designer. It looked like where you're like, I'm paying that grenade. I'm throwing this. What was that? You're welcome to the NFL moment. Or did you have another moment that you're like, yeah, that that that was my introduction here. I'll never forget my rookie year. We're playing the Texans and.

It was like, it was a screen to like the running back on the left side. And I'm like kind of waiting for the screen to develop patting the ball. And I don't know how I didn't fumble, but I was like here getting ready to throw it. And JJ Watt just like hit me so hard in the ribs. Like, I don't know how I didn't let go of the football, but yeah,

I ended up getting sacked on a, on a screen to the running back by JJ watt. I think that was kind of my, all right. Yeah. Welcome to the NFL rook kind of moment.

I thought I created enough space, but he closed that space. I thought I drifted. I drifted enough and he closed that on me a little bit. No, it's funny. I played with JJ. I've seen him run. I've seen him jump. And yeah, I'm not surprised that he closed that space pretty quick. I got to get into also maybe another passion of yours. I don't know if it is a passion. You're a basketball player, football player. You're also a golfer.

Josh Allen said that he would have a U as part of his ideal foursome. I don't know if you saw that clip or not. He mentioned Kyle Allen, Christian Kirk, and then he mentioned U, and then him, Josh Allen.

What would your, or who would you be in your ideal foursome? And I'm sure you automatically have to include Josh. Well, it's those, it's those three. Oh, okay. So it is a regular group. Yeah. I mean, I can't, I can't, you know, stray away from, you know, the group there. That's our, that's our squad, our off season squad going golf. And so, um, yeah, that's, that's the crew there. How is your golf game or what is the strengths of tier golf game?

Oh, man. That is an ongoing discussion, ongoing process. It's not great right now. Our handicap is rising. But, you know, we're good. At the end of the day, I love going out there and playing. And I think that's all that matters. It is. And this is a personal question. Do you use lengthened clubs? Because we're about the same height. And I'm curious about that.

Yeah, I do. I don't know exactly the length, but yeah, I definitely. This is just for me. This is just pure because I might have to adjust my clubs and we're about the same height. All right, we got a couple more questions. This is back to access those though. You've been a Kubiak Shanahan offenses for a good chunk of your career. I did notice back when you were with Carolina that you really, really liked throwing choice routes. That choice routes and CMC was automatic.

It seemed like were there are there any other concepts that now these offenses Shanahan could be a type offenses that you it's kind of your go to you're like, No, I want these day one day two staples that you're like, these are, these are my my money plays. I know everyone has their own kind of specifics, but anyone's that are yours, you think?

Um, what first of all, I think throwing choice routes to CMC is that would be anyone's favorite route to throw automatic and you know, if he's not there than DJ Moore's on the other side probably wide open as well, but No, I think There's there's a ton of concepts. Obviously. There's there's a lot of familiarity with kind of the system I was there in 23 with the Niners and

And then we run a ton of similar stuff that I ran last year with O'Connell in Minnesota. I love...

you know, I love throwing out breakers. Um, but the in breakers, man, I feel like I've been able to get a good feel for, for some of those in breakers, whether it's shorter in breakers or deeper, you know, um, what we call kind of dagger throws, um, right over the middle. So, um, those are kind of the throws that I have a good feel for. Um, but again, I, I like, I like it all, man, whatever, whatever gets

the receivers open um whatever route will you know get the receiver open in that certain defense that we're playing that's that's what i like to throw yeah that

The inbreakers, I'm glad you brought them up because, yeah, you ripped some high lows. You love the high lows, rap concepts and stuff. I also noticed that backside digs with well, it helps having number 18 in Minnesota. Sure. Running those digs. But there is one against, I believe, against the Bears at home. You hit them near the goal line. Then you had another one against the Falcons on third down. When you throw those, do you have a specific throwing point? Do you throw to a hash, hash plus two? Or are you just throwing to space where you think the journal has spaces?

Yeah, it's space. Um, cause there's, there's so many different ways that we can get into it, you know, with different splits. And so the landmarks kind of change, but, um, the voids in the defenses don't, if that makes sense. Um, so like, you know, if there's a hook defender there and he's kind of backpedaling, like I might have to wait a second, but I am thrown into the window. Um, and so based on that space, like as you play more football, um,

you know, it just, you, you, I have a good feel for, um, and I think any, any quarterback that's played more than, you know, two or three years in the NFL can tell you this, but like you're thrown to, to avoid in the zone and you can kind of perif, perif the receiver coming into that, that window a little bit. And, uh, whether you need to throw it with touch or just,

rifle one in there. You know, feel like most quarterbacks in the NFL have a really good understanding of kind of feeling that void and just throwing it there and trusting the receiver to get there.

Yeah. I just noticed that you're so consistent on them. So it's kind of real fun to watch. I was just curious if that was just reading that space. Cause that's, there's lines of thinking. Cause the old school coaches back, you're throwing this plus two, this minus two. And it's like, if you're not pissed at you. There is a, there is a degree to that as well. I think, you know, there is a, there is a landmark that you kind of have in mind and throwing it. So there's definitely a little bit of that as well.

Okay. And then I have one last little touchdown throw. I want to ask you also to number 18, Justin Jefferson, the 97 yarder, uh, deep play action concept. Second down, you guys are backed up.

what alerted you to that? Was that something that you guys had anticipated that the safety, that Brown there, the safety might be flat footed, that that might be a great opportunity to do that? Or was that something pre-game plan, I should say, from the week? Was it on the game plan on the field before that series? Or was that you just alert and alert? No, it was something that we had talked about. Okay.

If you watch the play back too, it's funny. I think I really should have thrown it to my guy, Jalen Naylor. On the over. Yeah, on the over, who was actually under Jets. But I did feel Brown, Jair,

who I played with in San Francisco, I kind of felt like he was a little flat footed as well. Um, and you know, one thing I learned just watching tape in that off season was if you give 18 a chance, um, there's a greater than 50% chance. He's probably going to come down with the football. Um, so I just decided to give him a chance. And again, like,

That was a play we had talked about. Like, we're probably going to throw that when we call this play. If we get this certain coverage, we got the coverage. We called the play. It was almost like, all right, dude, like I need to, I need to make the defense pay on this one somehow. And, uh,

yeah, it just, I just gave 18 a shot and he took care of the rest. And it was fun. No, I really liked, enjoyed watching you, especially all those deep passing concepts. You guys are in Minnesota. Cause you're willing to unpin the grenade as I like to put it and just let them launch. I know KFC dialed them all up. Really just kind of want to wrap up too. So the bad wording here, I can't ask this. So you mentioned watching film though. Now you're in Seattle.

Seahawks took some, some offensive players in the draft. Were you watching any college film leading up to the draft process? Have you peaked any of those draft prospects that they took, you know, either at Zabel or, uh, Royal, even Damian Martinez or Torrey Horton, any of these players have you checked out at all? Yeah, I've, uh, you know, I've just fallen along with the draft. Um,

I was able to kind of watch a little bit of highlights of the guys and, you know, obviously, you know, Mr. Schneider, John does a good job and he's, he's done a good job in the draft and obviously trusted him, but, you know, had to go take a peek for myself and sure enough, man, the tape doesn't lie. These guys are really good players. I feel like they have an opportunity to be able to help us in a big way. And so I'm just,

Looking forward to working with them. You know, I'm so eager to just work with these guys and just continue, not only them, but my teammates that I've been working with here for the last, you know, few weeks, just continuing to get to know these guys and, you know, get on the same page. So when the time comes that we have to, you know, be on the same page during the season, it'll help us out even more.

Yeah, I'm excited to check it out with the guys that are returning and the new faces as well as with you. I think that offense could be a lot of fun to watch. Really enjoyed Kubiak when he did last year with the Saints. So it should be really fun offense. So want any other little Seattle area?

items that you've enjoyed so far? Have you hung in the Soto area and you're gone to a Mariners game? I haven't. To be honest, I'm moving a ton of stuff into our new house that we just bought. So that's kind of what I'm dealing with right now, man. It's getting all this furniture in the house and

I'm just moving right now. I'm trying to enjoy myself a little bit on the weekends, like go venture in the city maybe a little bit. But to be honest, man, I haven't really gotten a ton of time to do that. But when the furniture gets settled and we got Wi-Fi, we get trades workers coming in and then fixing some stuff that we need fixed in the house, I'm just excited to be done with all of that so that I can actually start living a normal life again. What?

I appreciate you taking the time to join me as you're doing all that. As someone who's done podcasts off moving boxes, I can totally relate. In this very room, actually, that I'm recording right now. So I can totally relate. Sam, thank you again. Best of luck this season, all future seasons. Really excited to watch. And I appreciate your message.

Appreciate it, man. Closing it out today. We'll be back next week with some more ranking shows for you. I am Nate Tice. You can find me at Nate underscore Tice on Twitter. Nate Tice on blue sky. That is Charles McDonald. You can find him at four verts on both of those sites. And that is Matt.

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