Can I Be Married and Still Have Friends?
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My friend, how long have you been performing? What up? What's going on? This is John with the Dr. John Deloney Show.

Man, I'm so glad that you are with us talking about your emotional and mental health, your relationships. There's hurting people going through a lot right now. And this show is dedicated to you guys. Sitting down with hurting people, trying to figure out what's the next right move. Not even hurting people. Confused people, stuck people, frustrated people. Whatever you got going on in your life, that's my promise. I'll sit with you and we will figure out what's the next right move.

You want to be on this show, give me a buzz at 1-844-693-3291 or go to johndeloney.com slash ask. And before you just keep hitting the little 15 second skip, skip, skip, listen, please, please, please subscribe on the YouTube channel. We're so close to crossing that million mark. Hit the subscribe button. It'll take you like two seconds and it really helps us out in a number of ways. All right, let's roll out to Atlanta to the ATL and talk to Elizabeth. What's up, Elizabeth?

So here's what I'm trying to figure out. I'm trying to figure out how to balance building a good marriage while also building meaningful friendships and relationships outside of my marriage. I really struggle to strike a balance, if that's even possible, and so I'm wondering if we can dig into that. Well, balance is insane. So trying to achieve that is like a myth. It's like trying to catch a dragon. It's like not real. But...

I don't see these two things that you laid out as opposites. I see them as recursive. They work together. So tell me what you're struggling with on either side of the equation. Yeah. I think what I'm struggling with is I feel like

I'm always feeling guilty, like whichever direction I go. So it's... And if I throw work in there too, it's really like trying to sort out, okay, if I go really hard in my career in one season, then I look up and I haven't talked to my friends in months or I feel pretty disconnected in my marriage. And then if I switch gears to really focusing on my marriage, then it feels like my ability to be as proactive and creative in my work life or my friendships, that tends to suffer. And so it just... I feel like I'm always spinning, trying to

I don't know, organize my calendar and my weeks in such a way that everything is getting the right amount of time. That doesn't even include time for like me and myself. And I think what I tend to bump into is feeling...

Like I'm not showing up to anything as much as I should be because my energy is split. Or if I'm really focused on something, I tend to feel a lot of guilt or sadness or like I'm failing and giving attention to the other things that also matter. And so I don't know if that's adding any clarity to it, but those are some of the feelings that come up as I'm trying to hold all these different parts of my life. Dude, my friend, how long have you been performing?

Oh, wow. You are living everyone else's life across multiple fronts. I don't even know what it would be like for you to actually access what you really want. I think that might be a scary proposition for you. What do you think? How long have you been singing and dancing for people to say that you're okay?

Uh, a long time, probably. I mean, at least since I was a girl. So a long time. Yeah. Tell me about it. Um, yeah, I guess I grew up in a home that felt pretty chaotic, a lot of love and a lot of chaos. Um, and I think, I think being excellent and doing well at things is kind of how I stood out and, um,

carved out a place for myself, not only in my family, but also in school. It was like if I, I distinctly remember being younger and experiencing some bullying and thinking, well, I'll show you, like I'll be the best. And then I won't, it won't matter, you know, that you're making fun of me about this or whatever. So I'd say it's been, it's been a part of my life for a while. That's so freaking exhausting because you just end up playing relational whack-a-mole

And nobody ever turns and asks you how you're doing or what do you actually need? Or more importantly, what do you want? So I guess what I tell you is having great friendships aids and supports and makes, tills the soil for an incredible marriage. And being anchored in with good friends and having a rock solid marriage anchors you in to allow you to go swan dive into your work.

And being excellent at your work allows you to come home and celebrate and grieve when you don't do well and celebrate when you do well. And it provides the foundation for you to build a house on with food, right? And capital, like support. So all these things work together. They work together if you are actively creating the life that you and your husband want to live. They are at war with each other.

If you're trying to make your friends happy, you're trying to make your boss happy, and you're trying to make some idealized version of your dad. By the way, he's never going to call you. That call that finally he's, that call will never come because it hasn't already. And you're trying to like keep your husband happy, right? And you're not burning the candle at both ends. You just set yourself on fire and covered yourself in wax. You are the candle. Mm-hmm.

What precipitated this call? I came off of pretty much many, many months of traveling a lot for work and had...

I think it was an anxiety attack coming off of all of that and kind of looked up and realized like, oh, I'm pretty isolated and disconnected. Not as much from my husband because I see him every day, but also still from him. Oh, sister, I've been dreadfully lonely sharing a bed with a woman that I know loves me. Yeah. Dreadfully lonely.

Yeah. Yeah. And so it's like, I woke up, I was like, oh, I feel really disconnected. So that was around the time when I called. And since I did call, like I've been trying to be more intentional, like, okay, let me actually go see my friends and tell them that I'm not okay. Cause I haven't even opened up that part of my life for them. Cause I had just been like coming home, going to the airport, coming home, going to the airport. And so that I was holding all of that. And that's why I called. How old are you? I'm 34. You have little ones?

No. Do you want kids or no? Yes. Yes? Tell me about that journey. Oh, gosh. That's a great question. My husband and I haven't been on the same page about it for a few years. I think we're getting to be on the same page about it. What does that mean? You're wearing them down?

Oh, no, no. Thankfully I tried that and that was not successful. So no, it's been a lot of addressing like the root issues in our relationship that created that disconnect in general. So it's been a, we've been working on that really hard and I do feel much better. Um, but that's where we're at in that journey. What's the plan? Um, what's the plan? Oh, that's really specific. I, um,

We don't have a specific plan in place. You've got to get one, and here's why. You're drowning in a sea of ambiguity. You always have been. Tell me if I'm wrong here. My guess is you're a good kid, and your house was chaotic, and this will probably ring true to you in some shape, form, or fashion. I don't know about the word trauma because it's kind of overdramatic, but I remember one of my professors told me that straight A's can be a trauma response too.

That just because a kid is getting straight A's doesn't mean everything's going great. Sometimes it is their way that they keep their head above water so that some adult somewhere will see them and say, good job. Or at worst, won't hit them, right? Or will ignore them and keep them a little bit safer. But like you mentioned, grades are a way for a kid without humongous muscles to bully other kids. I'll show you that I'm better than you. Mm-hmm.

But all of that is a kid that's untethered, meaning doesn't know where the next secure attachment, the next secure sense of I'm loved and I have value and I have worth is coming from. And those folks grow up to be adults.

And they start trying to clamor and get it everywhere. Do I get a certificate at work? And that feeling lasts as long as the certificate ceremony or the mass email that goes out to everybody or the raise. In fact, the raise doesn't even matter. It's the conversation on your annual review with your boss that says, hey, I'm giving you a 4.2% raise when the average was three. And I see the work that you're doing. You did a good job.

Or your bonus is a little bit high, right? The feeling is gone before the deposit even hits your checking account. And then your husband, you want to make him happy, but also there's just frustration. And your friends, you all want to go do things, but I'm tired. It's this, I don't know how to win in this environment relationally because I'm trying to solve this internal gaping hole externally.

And there's no specifics and you're going to wake up and be 39 years old and you'll realize I've lived somebody else's life. And that's when people wake up and burn everything to the ground. Meaning, and that's when they respond to the text from that really attractive, hilarious coworker for the first time. That's when they just snap at their spouse who's just putting along or your sister or one of your girlfriends has a third kid and you just snap.

Yeah. Because you wake up and you're living somebody else's freaking life. And you're trying to manage everybody else instead of just asking yourself, what do I want? And what must be true? Does any of this ring a bell? Yeah, it all rings a bell. Okay. Yeah. So I guess what I would tell you is like, you build a meaningful marriage. To me, of all the things that you mentioned, that's the most important thing. And I know it's kind of countercultural, but you both looked at each other and said, I do.

And if you have, if the pillars that that relationship is built on, if those are crumbling or if they've been removed or they were never there or you think they're stronger or whatever, that has to be addressed before any of the other stuff. Because you can make a million bucks and if your marriage isn't good, the research tells me your life will suck. Yeah. And you can have the greatest friends in the world, but if you go home and you're not safe when you sleep in your own bed, your body will never let you sleep. Mm-hmm.

Does that make sense? Yeah. Yeah, it does. So how's your marriage for real? Yeah. I know that's not why you called. How is it? Yeah. It's been really hard. Tell me about it. Yeah, we...

Oh, golly. It's like where to start. It can be like a saga, but I'd say we've been married eight years. Um, the probably first one was a lot of fun, probably two through, it'll be eight years in April. I should say, um, I would say year two through maybe a year ago, things were really, really tough. Just lots of, um, really bad communication, poor conflict resolution, really, at least like for myself, like had a really hard time, um,

asking for what I needed and asking for what he needed. So it's just sometimes you look at each other and we're like, oh,

If we'd had the skills we have now, six years ago, we'd probably have a different relationship. Oh, dude, I think that every three years. Every three years, I'm like, oh, my gosh, if I had known this, right? So, yeah, you're not crazy. Yeah, you're not crazy. Yeah. So, I mean, it's like it hasn't been like one thing. It's been like a lot of things and poor tools to navigate all of those things. And so earlier this year, we had like a test separation of sorts. And then we came back together without a real plan. Then we're like, oh, we need a plan.

And so we've been building an actual plan. I've learned a lot from you. And he and I have watched my videos together and things. And I don't feel like we're... Things feel so much better than they used to that I can't in good faith say like, oh, things are still really bad because they're not. I feel like we've talked about everything. We have our weekly...

Marriage meetings, like we're doing things we know we're supposed to do to like get on the same page. And based on those meetings, we are both feeling more connected and being more intentional. So things seem to me to be on a healing trajectory. But there's still pain, of course, when I look back on a lot of the disconnection we've experienced. Are there still secrets? Not on my side. I don't think he has any, but he'd have to answer that. Okay. You don't think so or you know so?

I want to say like 90%. I know. So, okay. I would start there because I want you to be able to jump up and down on the stability of this marriage because now y'all have, if there's no other secrets, there's nothing else out there for you to find. And it's weird if you've let stuff slide for seven years or if you've kind of been looked the other way for seven years or it's been fine for eight years, like whatever, but,

But that's the stuff that emerges in year seven to 10 of a marriage that becomes these deal breakers. And the work y'all have done the last year, I am high fiving you sister. That is so rad that y'all have done that. And now I think you've like, you've patched the, the, the holes in the boat. So it's not sinking anymore. Yeah.

Right. And now you'll have to decide if you're going to build a new boat because this was going to take you that much further. We all build a new boat together. And that just starts with no secrets. Lay it all out. Here's all of me. Do you still love me? Does that make sense? Yeah, it does. Yeah, it does. So when it comes to balance, balance is a myth. But deep, enriching relationships enrich every part of your life.

Yeah. But it comes with you believing I'm not on a stage for everybody. Me and my husband have decided we're going to co-create a world together. Our friends will be a part of that. Some of them won't make that cut. Some of them will. Our jobs will interweave through that. But we're going to create this world together. Yeah.

And then the pressure of having to balance everything, you just get off the little Amazon, you know, that little half ball thing, the little balance stand that people at stand-up desks do at work when they're listening to their Enya and their essential oils or whatever they're doing. You know what I'm talking about? Those little balance ball things. Yeah. Yeah, you just get off that. You stand on the ground. Mm-hmm.

Does that make sense? Yeah, it does. From this point forward, whenever you feel like you're trying to balance something, just close your eyes and consciously step off that little balancey thing. I'm not doing that. I'm not balancing. What's the next right move for me and my husband and for me and my family? Yeah. And that almost always, except in moments of safety, begins with truth. I'm going to tell you the truth.

So, gosh, I'm trying to think of where to hang on the line here. I'm going to send you a copy of building a non-anxious life. And I want you and your husband to use that as a roadmap for what comes next. And the first step there, building a non-anxious life, the first, you know, the first, the first step in the path is choosing reality.

And there's a series of questions in the back of that first chapter that are like, all right, here we are. What's true? And use that as truth. And I'm going to send you a copy of Questions for Humans Intimacy Deck and the Questions for Humans Couples. And I want you all just to begin learning. And this is going to sound crazy. Enjoying each other again. Becoming friends again. Y'all are doing the meetings. Y'all are fixing stuff. I want you all to remember being friends together.

And then talk about, hey, I want to go hang out with my friends. Good. Thank God. I want to watch this stupid show. Hey, I don't like going to comedy clubs with you. I'd rather go to a jazz club. Can you go with your friends? Yes. Okay. Awesome. And we'll begin to build that life. I don't like traveling so much. Maybe we're going to look for a new job or I want to have a baby right now. And our conversations and I'm not ready. I'm done with that conversation. I'm ready for this now. And we can start saying what we want. Put that on the table.

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Alright, let's roll out to Manitoba, Canada and talk to Big D. What's up, David? So, to give you some background, I met my wife in June of 21. Got married in January 2023, so almost at our two-year anniversary. And before I met my wife, I was a pretty rabid alcoholic slash gambling addict. And I was clean for about two years prior to meeting her. So when I met her, you know, she would drink, I would use cannabis, no issue.

But I started telling her more about, you know, like recovery, watching intervention, stuff like that. I like shows like that. She was like, oh, wow, like, you know, you shouldn't be using anything. And I'm sitting there thinking, okay, well, and I went to rehab back in 2018 and meet a lot of people that say, I don't know what your thoughts are, but basically they're not, you shouldn't be doing anything at all. You should be totally sober. And I would say 9% of people I've met or healthcare professionals agree with that. I'm almost six years sober in those two issues in February. And I

Now my wife saw my case quite a bit. You know, she just thinks I shouldn't be doing anything. It's like taking a big risk. And it's starting to annoy me and cause a little bit of issue. So I was kind of curious to get your feedback on that. Everything else is great. It's just this one little issue that it's kind of causing bigger issues. How much of her, to use your words, being on your case is about weed and how much of it is she loses her husband?

or her husband checks out? Well, I guess that's fair. She says like I'm not present. I guess that's something she has. Those are her words. Which is fair. And I guess here in Canada, like we do have it legalized. That's something I used, to be honest with you, a crush when I quit drinking back in 2019. They just legalized it. Well, so... Yeah, that's fair. That's a fair point for sure. Two things are important about... The reason most people say...

If you're going to be sober, you got to be sober from everything. One reason is I've got a couple of friends. If they have one beer, they will disappear on a three-day Coke bender because it just hits a domino that they – it just – one beer turns into six beers, turns into who's got cocaine, turns into where's so-and-so. So that's one. All these things are dominoes, so I got to stop everything.

I can't drink a glass of wine. I'm not going to touch champagne. I can't go into that world, period. The other reason most people will say you have to abstain, you have to live a life that is sober is otherwise you just trade one addiction for another, for another, for another. And so my question to you, just like as a buddy, just as a guy sitting across the table having nachos is like, all right, gambling helps you feel alive in your own skin.

Alcohol helps you not feel pain in your own skin. What is weed giving you? If your wife uses the words not present, checks out, then there's something about you being in your own skin that you don't like. What is that? I don't know, to be honest with you, like I'm in the military here in Canada and, you know, it's the only thing I can really do.

I know I'm being honest with you. I'm just saying I feel like that's something that I can get my hands on that's not going to get me in trouble with work, so I do it. But also, too, it's probably a bad answer, but my wife's having a few drinks on a Friday night, and I want to smoke up a bit. I really don't see the issue there because I don't mind that she drinks. That's not a factor at all. That's something that really, I guess, during the past time that I kind of feel like she's partaking and I should be able to as well, I guess, would be

I always feel about that. Yeah. And I, I guess, I guess the scorekeeping is going to be a relational, some relational baggage, man. It's just going to be hard to overcome. Um, I should be able to, I get to, man, if you, if you struggle with alcohol, man, you just don't get to anymore. My understanding, which is limited, um, to what some of you guys in the Canadian military experiencing is very, very challenging. Is that fair? Yeah, that's fair. Okay. Um,

A, just from a personal standpoint, I'd love to see you get to the root of that or to come up with some strategy. And if it ends up just being that, then it just ends up being that, right? I'm not in your shoes and I'm not going to throw grenades at you. But there's something that's underlying that. The bigger thing is, it sounds to me without talking to your wife that in her, she's able to point at the weed. She's able to point at legal cannabis, but...

It sounds like what she's telling you is I miss you and you go away. My wife tells me the same thing because I'm a workaholic. And she'll use the same words your wife does, which is you're not present. You're sitting at our kitchen table and your head's a thousand miles away from here. And I have to consciously have a ritual to leave work at work. I have to say no to money. I have to say no to projects because...

My wife is saying, I miss you. You're not here. The kids miss you, your family, your life, your life is missing you. And so if I have a job that I have to do and I have to medicate my regular life outside of my work, um, so that I can get through it, man, I really would love to get to the bottom of that. Um, that's a really good point. And the funny thing is we're both actually retiring in a couple of months, uh, kind of forced out on medical. So we're going to have like

work won't be a thing there anymore we're going to kind of have the ability to travel and do whatever we want and maybe this might just be the you know the addict in me talking but i feel like as soon as i have that you know kind of out of a i know i say that but i'm saying like right now that's how it feels to me sure when i have that ability i'm not really going to have that need anymore so i kind of that's kind of the way i'm looking at i got a couple more months but then it's still obviously causing a bit of tension did you not drink before you got in the military

No, no, I joined in 17, so it's kind of hard to tell you. So I've been doing the military for 18 years now. It's all I've done. Okay, it's all you know. Military, you really get to build, build, build?

You know, and you can be alcoholic in the military, no problem. The gambling thing kind of cycled with me from taking my first bet within a year I was in rehab. Like, that hit me like a truck. So, yeah, and the funny thing is, without ever developing the gambling addiction, I would still be drinking today. But, I don't know, it never felt like I had a problem with alcohol, which is strange to say, but looking back, I'm like, holy shit. With gambling, you know, you win or lose $100,000 a day. You realize you have a problem pretty quick. Yeah, absolutely. Well, and so...

I don't want to overgeneralize here, but the people I've spent time with who are both veterans and the people who I've spent time in the recovery community, which is a bunch on both sides of those, and you happen to fit in both of those camps. If I was to distill down one central challenge they both have, that is the ability to believe that somebody else would love them just for them, not for what utility they provide.

And I'm wondering if your wife is looking at the man that she loves and she said, I ride or die till the end of time. I will be by your side. After six years, A, I miss you and B, I'm losing you.

No, no, that's fair. There's probably something else I should mention. It's going to make me sound like not a great dude, but when she brings this up to me, I kind of just default and say, well, you know what? You can just leave. I know it's wrong. I know it's, you know, especially if my wife tells me she feels abandonment issues in the past and all her childhood. And I know that's like the worst thing I can say, but I'm like, just like kind of what you're saying. If you're not going to take me for me, then what do you do?

Which I know is a horrible thing to say. No, no, no. She's trying to take you for you. And you keep trying to talk to her through a green haze. Yeah. She's trying to come get you. That weed is not you. That weed is you protecting yourself. And you lashing out at that woman is not. That's you trying to protect yourself.

Yeah, yeah. And I'm just, it's funny because you can come up with anything to rationalize and be like, well, at least you didn't know anyone I used to drink or at least when I did. Yeah, you know, but you know that as well as I do. That's stupid. You know that. Oh, no, no, no. It's true. No, I do. If you were my buddy here in town, you know what I'd tell you to do? Use the last six months in the armed forces to have to do recovery on their dime and just try.

And you'll probably find yourself going back to a facility. Or do you mean just like in terms of resources? I don't know what resources they have. I don't know. I don't know resources in Canadian military, but if they've got meetings, if they got places where you can go, here's what I'd love you to try. I would love you to try to get sober, stone sober with the resources and the structure that the military is going to provide you.

Because you're telling yourself a story that's not true, which is once you are free from this structure, that then things will – you're going to unspool rapidly. And so unless you have a very systematic transition plan that very few veterans have, if you're just waiting for they to get done so you can ride your motorcycle free and go, ah, I can do whatever I want, I can wear whatever I want, and grow my hair however I want, it's going to be a rude awakening.

You got 20 years of somebody telling you when to jump and how high. And freedom is amazing, and it's unsettling for your nervous system. And, dude, you think that's when you're going to come off? Bro. No, no. I would love to see you try to get sober with structure right now. And if it is painful and you find yourself lashing out and you find yourself angry and you can't sleep, that is the alarm bells that you need to run towards, not away from.

Okay, no, that's a good point. I always do feel the need. I need to be doing something, which I know is, you know, it's addiction coming in a different form. But no, no, that's good advice. I do have some time left before I'll be, you know, out and be able to not have those resources. So no, that's pretty clear-cut advice. I don't think there's too much gray there. Well, I mean, I...

The single greatest, what do you call it, rationalizers I know in the planet are my closest loved ones, my friends that are in the recovery community. They can get me believing that the sky is red.

Like, like they are so good at just twisting reality in a way. I'm like, I think, I think you're right. It looks blue to me, but I'm pretty sure it's red. Like they're just the best rationalizers on the planet. And so, yeah, just speaking as black and white as I can do. And by the way, you're going to do what you're going to do. I can't, I'm not going to be there with you. You can do what you want to do. Um, I would just ask three things. Number one, never, never, never, never threaten your wife with separation.

It's cold. It's cruel, man. Don't do that. Be a better man than that. The second thing is...

Is be intentional about what y'all are going to build together. Something that you are not going to run from the military. You're going to build something that you're going to go towards. What is it? A small business, traveling, a new adventure. We're going to have kids finally. I don't know what the thing is, but go towards it. And the third thing is while you still have an alarm clock on you that you got to wake up for.

Man, I would love to see you get stone sober for six months and really deal with the demons. Because going from gambling hundreds of thousands of dollars to alcohol since you're 17 to daily weed, like, man, it just tells me your body is wrestling with some kind of demon. And the weed keeps it quiet. The weed works. The gambling works for a minute until it burns your house down. Alcohol works, man. I'd love to see you live a life where you're just free. You drink coffee in the morning because you want to.

You just fall asleep at night because you're tired. You and your wife just have wild, passionate lovemaking and adventures and dinners and meals because y'all like each other, not because you're living a life that you have to be half asleep. I've long talked about my love for red light and red light therapy, my love for infrared saunas, and my concerns about the way certain types of light disrupts our mood and sleeps and more.

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All right, we are back. Hey, listen, I'm excited to share that episodes of the Dr. John Deloney show are now available a week early for all those listening. There's like seven of you who are like, I've got to listen early. It's now available a week early in the Ramsey Network app. You can also watch full video episodes of the show and so much more.

You can go through. There's just so much cool stuff. Download the Ramsey Network app. You can search. You can dig into stuff. And you can check it out early and for free. Ramsey Network app. And you can check the show notes for the link to the app.

All right, let's go out to Richmond, Virginia and talk to Anne. What's up, Anne? So I'm actually calling about a friend of mine. Sure, sure, Anne. Calls for a friend, huh?

For real. Sure. I had my daughter about five months ago and it was cool because I had a kid with about four of my other friends. Something was in the water. I don't know. But anyway. Awesome. Okay. So we've been on this journey together, first children, and all of us had different

different birth experiences, different support systems. But one of our friends in particular is having a really rough time. Tell me about it. Yeah. So...

She and I probably both had like the more traumatic birth experiences, but unfortunately her child was in the NICU for an extended period of time. I don't know what that's like, but I can only imagine how challenging that was. And since having the kid, what we, and I say we, it's my very close friend and I have our friends with her and have kind of been noticing this, that we think she's really struggling with postpartum depression or even rage. And that's,

that's manifesting in messages to us in the middle of the night on Instagram that are just like, I hate my wife or when her baby's crying in a group setting saying nobody cares to her baby, just saying, Hey, nobody cares baby. Or even referring to her baby as it. And I know, like I know my friend's heart and I know that,

that this is probably chemical. This is probably beyond her, but I'm worried about her. And I've talked to her when I can, but it's also a very sensitive subject. I mean, I went through my own challenges and I know how difficult it can be to really like see the forest for the trees when you're coming out of this incredibly intense life change that was traumatic. But

Yeah, I'm really concerned about her. And I think what I'm really calling is to understand when she says these things in a group setting or even one-on-one, I've been at a loss for words of how to respond in a way that is honest but supportive but doesn't make it okay necessarily. I hope that makes sense. Yeah, totally. I think...

I guess I'll just say this as direct as I can. Yes, there's some sensitivity, some major sensitivity. Yeah. I am literally only sitting here before you because I had a couple of my closest friends in the world wade through insane amounts of sewage to get to me when I was hurting. Yeah. Yeah. And so...

intervention is too dramatic of a word and that show has kind of made it sensational but yeah having having coffee at your house one morning and inviting everybody over just to check in and go around the room yeah and say just want to check on everybody i've had some good days and some bad days we're just going to start going around seeing how everybody's doing how are you doing yeah i've made a point of doing that and i with her by herself or with a group

Both, both actually. In a group. Okay. Tell me about that.

Well, there's been a few times and to be fair or clear, I guess I'm probably the one she's closest to in the group because we both had emergency C-sections and she called me the day it happened. And so I feel a sort of responsibility of kind of stepping up and being that person for her. And so there have been, I almost like make it a calendar note in my phone to call her or text her like,

every other day and set something up, whether it's a walk with just me or friends in a group. And we had a group come over probably two weeks ago. And that was when she kind of expressed that she was having like, almost like hallucinations at night when she was taking care of the kid. And, um, that's when I got really scared and I actually reached out to

to her husband and called him and said, Hey, I'm really concerned. What can I do? Um, and also I just want you to know that I'm here for you. Um, what did he say? He, I think he kind of had a sigh of relief of like, Oh, you see what I'm seeing. And like, this isn't, this isn't just a battle that I have to fight, you know? Um, and I think she's aware of it, but it's also like, I kind of see

I remember being in the fog of that. It was a different situation for me, but you need someone to throw you a rope. And so I think the question I'm having is like, how do you throw a rope with sensitivity? But also like- You don't. You don't. You're past that. Yeah. And you said something important earlier. You said you can't see the forest for the trees. That's why we have friends.

Yeah. Who will grab our wrist and walk us through the forest when we can't see the way out. And so, yeah, it's what I'm telling you is I've been in your situation. I've never, I've never been in, I've sat with postpartum friends very directly. Yeah. And said like, here's, here's the options before you. You can go see a psychiatrist, ASAP. You're going to see OBGYN and tell them exactly the thoughts you're having because those thoughts are scary. Yeah.

Yeah. And I know that she's only telling us. That's right. You know why? Because you come to believe they're going to take your baby away. Yeah. And your body also puts a bunch of GPS pins in that baby as it almost killed her, right? Yeah. And then she couldn't hug her. I mean, there's so much stuff going on there that terror demands a witness. Yeah. Right? And so you sit down with your friend and you say, hey, here's the deal.

I'm going to love you the best I can. And I'm willing to whatever, um, willing for you to be mad at me, whatever, but you need to go see your doctor and I'm going to go with you. Yeah. That's the step I just haven't taken. Like I've had the conversations of how are you doing? Are you, you know, are you still having the hallucinations? But I haven't taken the, are you going to see your doctor? It's not, I don't, I don't ask or when I get to the point where you need to be right now, I don't ask like, Hey, are you going to, I don't ask that question.

I say, you're going to. I'll go with you or I will stand here in your front yard when they come get you. Yeah. But I'm worried about you. Now there's a little bit of bravado there. Most people aren't going to come get you, right? I'm the soft one in the front group. I can't. I know. And that's why I say like sometimes with a group, but I think it's letting her know, not asking.

I see that you're not okay. I know for a fact you're only telling us a part of it because you have to, and I so love you and respect you for that. Yeah. We're going to see your doctor, and I'm going to go with you. But you've got to make an appointment today, like right now. Oh, I will. No, no, no, I'm not going to leave. I'm not leaving here until you make an appointment, and I'm going to go with you. Yeah. And I know this is scary. Can I hold your hand? Yeah. Do you know what I'm saying? Yeah.

I do hear what you're saying. Yeah, there's not a gentle way to throw a rope to somebody who's drowning. Yeah. You throw the rope as hard as you can. And if it hits them in the head and they have to get stitches, so be it. At least they're on the boat to get stitches. Yeah. Yeah, it was scary calling her husband because I was like, I'm risking the friendship right now doing this. But at the end of the day, it was the right thing. All day long. I'll risk my friendships all day long if people are still alive. Yeah. You know what I mean?

And by the way, my wife reached out to one of my friends one time and he came. To this day, he still never told me that she called him. She told me, but he hasn't. He honored her trust in that way because he loves me and he obviously loves my wife too. He's a close friend, but he came down to tell me to go see somebody. Yeah. And he drove three hours to come see me. And I thought he was just bringing his son by to play with my son, but he listened to my whole spiel when I wasn't well. And he's like, you're going to go see somebody. You're not all right.

Yeah. And it, my wife couldn't get through to me. My colleagues couldn't get through to me. He did it. He did. Yeah. He did. And by the way, when he left, I was pissed. I was mad. Like, who do you think you are? Like, you don't know. You don't understand. I did. All right. There's not an easy path through. And listen, if you want, if you talk to her and y'all want to call in, call in. Okay. I'll put you all, I'll put you both right back through.

Okay. And if you don't want to go alone, get another friend. But if you think she trusts you dearly and she would listen to you, then have that conversation and do it in person. I'm probably the one. It's just I never want to overstep or hurt someone by doing it. But at the same time, I think it's the right thing. How do you feel like it's an overstep? Well...

I don't know. I mean, I think when I was going through this stuff, there's a lot you can assume on the outside about what someone is trying to do and their desires working through something. And I just... I never want to assume. I don't know. I...

I just don't want to assume something that's not there or just offend her. But I guess risking offending someone is probably the right thing to do if it would help her through this. Yeah, screw offending. I would completely reframe that and saying, I am her friend for this moment.

Yeah. Nobody in the world can speak to her like I can from an emergency C-section, from the terror, from the we had a plan that we all talked through to how pissed off we are at our other friends, even though we love them because they got to do it like we drew it up. All of it. Yeah. And then being able to say, I don't know what it's like not to be able to hold my baby for one week, two weeks, three weeks, a month. I don't know what that's like. Yeah. Yeah.

I don't know. And you know this. Every husband's different. I don't know what it's like. You don't know what it's like getting in that house with the doors closed. Right. And so who knows what hell she's going through. But the scariest thing is she's probably going through it by herself.

I think it's that I just don't want her to think that I'm saying she's doing a bad job because that's not what I'm saying at all. I want her to know that I think she's doing an awesome job and has been handed a really sh**ty hand. That's right. But she needs help. That's right. There you go. And so this might sound cheesy, but I think the greatest gift you could give her is to write her a letter and read it to her and say, I wrote this because I wasn't going to be able to get it out. Yeah.

And if it started with, you're the most amazing mom out of all of us and I see you drowning. Yeah. And by the way, you can't control how she chooses to hear it or maybe not even chooses in this moment, in this fog, she's hurting a lot. She's struggling. How her body hears it. You can't control that. What you can do is do the best job you can to be compassionate and let her know because we love you, we're stepping in at this point. You got to go see somebody. Yeah. You got to go see somebody.

And we'll be here to help with childcare. We'll be here to help with whatever. But you got to go see somebody and I'll go with you. Okay. I can do it. Yeah. She's lucky to have a friend like you. Thanks. And just because it's uncomfortable doesn't mean it's the wrong thing. Okay. Yeah. Thanks, Dr. John. I appreciate it. Last thing I'll tell you, if you get even the slightest sense that she's a danger to herself or to her baby,

Call 911 immediately. No questions asked. No could care less if you don't like me anymore. But if I get even the slightest sense that she's going to do something irreversible, I'm making that call right away.

It's the new year. It's my favorite time of year. And everyone starts thinking of new routines, building better habits, stopping things that aren't helpful and otherwise building a better life. But we all know that most new go get them goals are a waste of time because we don't put in the systems to make them sustainable. So how about this year? Let's focus on fewer sustainable goals and building better systems. And let's start by curating a system and a goal that's good for your soul.

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That's hallow.com slash Deloney for three months of hallow absolutely free. All right, we're back. All right, Kelly. This is a time when I should have done this at the beginning of the show, but I'm going to do it at the end of the show when I don't know any public figure who has not found themselves having to admit something publicly. And I'm not who I said I was. And so that's me making this admission. I think I know where we're going. I'm so happy.

I'm glad you didn't do it at the beginning of the show because I wasn't here. Yeah. So this is as it should be. Thursday night of last week. We're recording this on a Monday. Thursday night of last week, at the end of this big, long event with business leaders, I joined a band on stage. I played a purple PRS. What did you play? And I played a Nickelback song. Yes, you did. Oh, God.

And I was there to witness it. I played a purple PRS, for God's sake. Will Rudder's purple PRS. And I played Nickelback. And it jammed. Yes, it did. The whole thing jammed. And there's also video evidence. There is video evidence. And I'm not going to lie. It smoked. It was so much fun. Would you like to tell the people what I... So when I texted you when I left, and I told you that...

This would come back to haunt you at some point in time. What did you tell me? I said, I'm already on my way to a church. I have to ask God for forgiveness. And you said, God will forgive. Kelly doesn't forget. I played Nickelback live in front of other people. And it was great. You did a fantastic job on it. You really did. You did a great job. The whole thing was great. For anyone who knows music, playing a Nickelback song is...

It's the same skills you learn when they teach you ta-ta-ti-ti-ta in elementary school with a xylophone. Like what? Hot cross buns on the recorder? Yeah, it's hot cross buns. There's four whole chords. Four whole chords. But prior to that, before that, you played a Motley Crue song. Yeah, I played Motley Crue. You did Kickstart My Heart. It's not complex, but it's complex and there's a lot of moving around. Not even one-eighth of the jamming in the audience.

But man, you play some Nickelback and dude, there were shirts unbuttoning themselves. It was a whole thing. It was a whole thing. I don't understand. I don't understand. But the Nickelback effect is real. And I just need everyone listening to this to know

I did pick up a guitar that wasn't a Gibson or a Jackson. I did, and I played it, and it was purple, and it was Nickelback, and I rode home in silence. There was a point whenever, of course, there was a big group of us team members here that were just having a great time dancing. You know every Nickelback word, by the way. I did. Of course I did. I freely admit it. And...

I thought that tattoo across the top of your chest was like a, I don't know, you're just trying to put out the vibe. I didn't realize you loved them like that. And then I look up and John catches my eye and the shame that was in your eye was fantastic. What was the song? You did, how do you remind me? I've been wrong. That it? Yes, that's the one.

But it was great. Y'all, you did a fantastic job on it. And I will say, because we had a ton of business leaders here, nobody else in the audience besides the very few of us that knew would have known you did it well. You hit it well. Well, listen. You stuffed down those feelings and played on. I took my pride and my feelings and I hid them for the sake of a good rock show.

And then I just wallowed in shame all night. About 3 a.m., my wife rolled over and said, what have you done? Are you okay? And I was like, I can't talk about it yet. I think she thought I was having an affair. And I was like, no, worse, much worse. I played Nickelback in public. And she was like, no, you promised. And she went running out of the bedroom. None of that happened, but all right, America, it will never happen again. It actually might because I'm not going to lie. It felt kind of good. Nickelback's on to something.

400 million albums later, however many they've sold. They're on to something. But I just can't buy a PRS. Not yet. Not yet, America. Love you guys. Bye.