Dad Slept With My Wife’s Mom (It Ruined Everything)
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How can we choose joy over resentment after my father's affair with my wife's mother has complicated our relationships? Wow. Is your dad married at the time? Both parents were, yeah. Even more. Wow. I don't get surprised very often, but this is a new one. What up? What's going on? This is John with the Dr. John Deloney Show, taking your calls on mental and emotional health.

It's a new year, so habits, marriages, kids, everything. Whatever you got going on in your life, I'll sit with you and we'll figure out what's the next right move. If you want to be on the show, give me a buzz at 1-844-693-3291 or go to johndeloney.com slash ask A-S-K. Let's jump right to the phones. We have a couple on to start today's show.

Let's go out to Miami, Florida. Let's pick up James first. What's up, brother James? Hey, Dr. John. How you doing, man? How's everything? I'm doing all right, man. Living the dream. Running a scam called a podcast. All right, let's bring on... Is this your wife, Lily? Yes, sir. All right, let's bring on Lily. Lily, you there? Yes, I'm here. How you doing? I'm doing great. All right, so...

Um, James, I picked you up first. So, uh, dudes first today, go, go for it. What's up? So our question, I'll start with our question and then just get kind of give you some backstory. So our question is how can we choose joy over resentment after my father's affair with my wife's mother has complicated our relationships. Wow. Um, you said that, do you ever watch the show Dexter?

A couple times, yeah. Yeah, I think you're that guy. You just said that so chill. How do we choose joy over resentment after our parents blew our lives to smithereens? Yep, yep. We're kind of that couple that, you know, we kind of have that nervous laughter going anytime something crazy happens, you know? Yeah, that's me. My wife has, it gets real quiet and I laugh. And so it's made for not super fun over the years. Okay, it's not about me. Yeah, man. So...

I got so many questions. You just talk and I'll interrupt you. Go for it. Okay. So my wife and I have known each other for about seven years. We started out as kind of casual acquaintances. We met at the church that I grew up at. So we met through church. And then about four years ago, we had a family member of mine pass away unexpectedly. And

you know, it was kind of a big shock. And so my wife at the time, of course, we were just friends, you know, she was at the funeral. And to me, that meant the world because it was, you know, she didn't actually know my family member. She just was there because she knew I was hurting, you know? So...

what that made me do is, you know, the wheel started kind of turning that, you know, Hey, if she's there for me in my low moments and we're just friends, you know, how much more is she going to be there for me in the hard times if we're together? You know what I mean? Oh yeah. The funeral love connection, right? Happens all the time, right? Um, not really, but in this case, yes. Yeah. So, so, you know, and, and, uh, that proved to be a little bit of an understatement, um, as the next couple of years unfolded. But, um,

So basically, as we fast forward a few months, my dad was volunteering at that church that I grew up at, and her mom got a job there. So she became employed. And so the next few months went really well. My wife and I had a really, really great relationship. Everything was... And we still have a really great relationship. But as time kind of went on,

we started kind of noticing well hold on when did y'all get married so we got married uh we got married about a year and a half ago okay all right so like four years ago you're at a funeral you're like i know i'm sad but man she's really pretty and she's like man i'm gonna go support him but he's kind of hot and then y'all dated for a year and a half and then got married

So we dated for about a year and a half. We were dating for about a year and a half when all this kind of went down. Okay, so y'all were not married yet. We were not. We were not. Okay, all right. So y'all are dating. It's pretty serious. Mm-hmm. And then your dad, is your dad married at the time? Both parents were, yeah. Oh, even more. Wow. Okay. Yeah. So then your dad's volunteering at this church. He's married to your mom. Mm-hmm.

Lily, your mom rolls into town and gets a job at this church. I made it sound like your mom's like the bad guy here. She's not, but I mean, everybody's a bad guy here, but your mom's working at the church. She's she married to your dad. Yeah. Yeah. Even now they're still married. Even more awesome. And so then what happens?

Yeah. So we're, so about a year and a half into us dating, you know, they, they, their relationship, you know, they, meaning my dad, her mom kind of got real close. And so we all kind of started noticing something was off. Uh, and so they, at one point came to us and literally kind of told us point blank, you know, without even trying to conceal it, you know, Hey, here's what's going on. And, uh,

At first, it was just, what in the world? This is totally just, it's kind of like a middle finger to us a little bit. This is the double bird. This is both hands. Oh, yeah. They came to y'all and they didn't say, did they say, oh my gosh, we've fallen for each other, we had a hookup, or they came to y'all and were like, no, we're together?

It was, it started out emotional, uh, and it was more kind of presented to us as, Hey, here's the feelings that we have, you know,

And then that only lasted probably about two months or so. It eventually escalated into more than just the emotional. And then it came to a point where her mom was just overcome with guilt and regret for what they kind of put everyone through. And so her mom is the one that called it off.

and abruptly said, this is it not happening anymore. Uh, so they're having like an out in the open affair, right? Does she keep her job at the church? No, they, they, uh, they both left. So they, they were both, uh, let go. Okay. Um, and so then they were like, that's still cool. And then did your mom stick around?

So they're not sticking around, no. So she left. This is all kind of within the last couple months, but my mom's on the out. Okay, so your mom and your dad are getting divorced. Lily, your mom and your dad are sticking it out. Correct, yeah. They're going to therapy, working on each other, trying to figure this thing out. And then somewhere in all of this, y'all two are like, you know what we could do to make this more awesome? Let's get married.

Yep. Trust me, man. We, like I said, we kind of laughed through the hard times, so we were kind of making jokes about how, you know, we were kind of like stepbrother and sister, you know? Yeah, dude. You got to, man. You got to laugh through it, I guess, you know? All right, so...

Again, I don't get surprised very often, but this is a new one. So congratulations on that. So how can I help you right now? Yeah. So where we're at now is, you know, kind of when everything was kind of going on, that's when our

our relationship of course started coming under the microscope and people were starting to say, you know, I had family members kind of saying, Hey, you know, why are you bringing Lily around the house? It's disrespectful to mom. And, you know, I had one of my longtime friends texted me when, you know, when they found out that we were getting married and choosing to start our lives together, you know, the text that I got was that, you know, James, you're being selfish. And, um,

You need to take some time to really think about what you're doing. I'm totally cool with it, man, because I will defend my wife to the end of the earth. I will defend our relationship to the end of the earth. So I learned that kind of the hard way that, hey, I've never been more sure. We've never been more sure about anything in our lives than us starting our lives together and getting married. So kind of where that brings us to today and where we would like some assistance is

We're kind of in that, you know, mid-20s age range where, you know, a lot of our friends are getting married. A lot of our, you know, my sibling just got married a couple months ago. And, you know, seeing how the families kind of interact with each other and, you know, the mother-son dance and all of that, you know, we can't kind of help but feel a little bit resentful.

resentful, you know, toward, we kind of, you know, weren't able to have that and haven't had that yet, I should say. So just trying to figure out like, what are the actionable items that we can take to, you know, maybe conversations that we need to have or that sort of thing to try to, you know, build what we can, you know? Well, this isn't a part of my final answer, but here's just an aside. If a friend texts you,

A long, serious text message about their thoughts of your character. They are not your friend. Okay? So you immediately opt out of me caring what you have to say. If you don't show up at my front door, you don't call me. Okay? On the way to work this morning, I sent a text message to an old, old friend that said, call me. And they called and we talked as I drove into work today.

It wasn't a long text message. Okay. So that's number one. If they truly were invested and think you're doing something wrong, that's a conversation you have in person together. So as people begin to lob text message grenades, I really don't care. Right. You're just showing, oh, you're out. Right. So your voice doesn't matter. If somebody wants to come over to my house or a close friend calls me because they live in another state or whatever, and they're just like, hey, we got to talk, dude. I'll hear that all day long and take that wisdom. And so that's number one. Number two is,

Y'all decided to get married in the middle of a hurricane. So by doing that, there's no judgment, no right or wrong, but that meant y'all made choices to not participate in other parts of this fantasy picture that young married couples have, like the mother-son dance or whatever. So some of that is just being both bummed out and knowing, yeah, we chose that.

It just is what it is. The third part is, have you sat down, like, does your mom accept Lily? Yeah, so that's part of it. So she, their relationship has really grown, let's say, over the last year and a half since all this went down. Amazing. Which, you know, thank God for, for sure. You know, a lot of, like, kind of when all was going down,

There were times where I would say things to my family like, hey, Lily doesn't feel like you guys like her. She doesn't feel accepted by you guys. And kind of the answer that I got back was, well, I see why she'd feel that way. You know what I mean? And it was kind of, well, I would think it'd be more of a, no, why would she think that? That sort of thing. But they have grown a lot more.

like let's say over the last few months. Well, I'll give them credit. They were like, no, no, no, no. We're actively excluding her. Of course she feels that way. Right. So at least they didn't try to gaslight you and make you feel crazy. Lily, is it weird being around his mom? Uh, definitely. Yeah. So with his mom and his siblings. Yeah. Okay. Um, how have you felt through all of this? Lily?

It's been a rollercoaster of emotions, to say the least. It's definitely been chaotic and it's kind of you're seeing this train wreck, but you can't really control any part of it. So you're just kind of sitting there and be like, well, okay, I guess that's happening now. That's a choice. But let me push on that because you can't control the train wreck, but you can control whether you stare at it, whether you're an earshot of it, whether you run into the aftermath of it all.

You know what I'm saying? Like you're y'all, you're James, your dad, Lily, your mom made a choice and the choice was to blow up their families. And that explosion came with smoke and ash and down structures everywhere like that happened. But if y'all go back to those same blown up structures wanting what was there before, which was full family support and mother son dances and dinners around a fire and

Like that's on y'all because y'all going back to a thing that you know doesn't exist anymore. Totally. And so you get to be sad that those things don't exist, especially since your dad and your mom blew them up. But then y'all also made the decision to get married. And so y'all have to make that grown up decision, which is, James, you tell your family like she's a part of our life and she's not her mom.

And she's not dad. And so I'm going to ask y'all to treat my wife with respect. And also your family sounds like they're the kind of person who's of the character that says, yeah, but we're going to need a minute. And I think there's some, there's some both in there. Lily, how is James around your dad or your mom?

I think that relationship is really good. I think mainly because my mom was very repentant immediately afterward. Okay. I think that's kind of going back to where James' dad is more so doesn't see where he went wrong. He doesn't see what, where the sin was. And his only regret is that he could have done it better. What? Correct. Okay.

So that's the hard part where we deal with resentment because it's how can we move on from something that you don't see is wrong in the first place. Yeah, but guys, I would not. He has cashed out his vote in my life. If I'm y'all, he's cashed out. Not only did he blow up your lives, but he continues to make y'all feel like the crazy ones. That's a great way to put it for sure. So like by virtue of his behavior, like he's out, you don't get a vote, dude.

And so I'm not even going to give him like, basically, I'm not going to wake up every day and there's a cinder block by my bed that just says dad's idiotic decisions and his refusal to take accountability for his actions. I'm not going to pick that brick up and carry it around all day. Forget that. I'm going to carry that. And I get to be sad. I get to be sad that he blew everything up and then I've got to live in the aftermath of it all.

Yeah, that's really good. And I can feel compassionate for my mom that every time my mom sees my wife, she sees the resemblance of the face of the other woman, right? Yeah. I mean, all that's true. And I would still think it's right to ask your family members to act like adults and treat Lily with dignity and respect and to treat her as a separate entity than her mom. Totally. Totally.

And I don't know how, I mean, maybe y'all can navigate this. I think it's worth a conversation at some point that, hey, there will come a day in our life when we have a new kid or whatever, you're going to see this woman again, mom.

Yeah. Well, that's part of the irony too, Dr. John, is, you know, when it was all kind of happening, you know, my mom kind of shared with me that, you know, she kind of went to therapy and, you know, the person that she was talking with kind of told her, hey, well, the good news is, you know, you're not going to ever have to see her again. And I was kind of like...

Listen, doctor, you're the doctor here. I'm not a psychology expert whatsoever, but I'm telling you right now, that was probably not the best advice. Well, you were like, hold my beer, mom. I can make this weird for us all. I'm going to marry her. Here's the deal. Your mom doesn't want the world she's living in either.

And yet here she is. Your brothers and sisters don't want that world because they all had visions of bringing their grandkids around the fire at Thanksgiving. And now that's over. And there's nothing worse than finding out your dad was dishonest or he's a gaslighter or he's just a person that lacks integrity. And you start to look throughout your life and you see remnants of that. You see images and shadows of that throughout your entire childhood. And it makes you doubt everything.

Yeah, that's really true because one of the things I was going to mention is growing up, my dad was kind of my coach. He would always coach me in basketball or whatever it was, and he would always tell me growing up, hey, don't ever quit. Don't ever give up. And I actually confronted him on that when this was all going down. I said, hey, growing up, you kind of told me, hey, I'm not ever to quit. I guess that only applied to me. You know what I mean? And those are the hard things to your point.

that I've had to deal with of kind of going back and kind of replaying things over and over. You know what I mean? Let me ask you this. You confronted him with that. Did that feel good when you said that? Not really. Okay. I want that to be lesson A, B, and C. The imaginary conversations you have in your head with him, they're only seeking to make you crazy.

And if you actually have those big reveal conversations, those big, yeah, moments in real life, you'll see a sad old man. Yeah. And you'll realize, oh, dude, I just got down in the mud and threw mud at him. And now I'm completely covered in mud and crap myself. Yeah. And so the best I can tell you is to y'all both write a letter to each one of your parents and don't ever, ever send it. Maybe read it to each other.

But really what we're doing is we're having a miniature funeral to what we wanted things to be. We're going to have a ceremony that we can point to the ground. This is the day I officially called it. My dad's lost his influence on my life. He cashed out. And then you brother James have to go be intentional about, um, you've got to go be intentional about finding other men in your life that you can trust. Yeah.

And Lily, you opted into this marriage. And so you're going to have to opt into knowing you're going to tense up every time you go over to the house for a season. My hope is, is that James, your mom continues to be super mature and grown up and compassionate. Your brothers and sisters come around. And also it's going to be awkward for a while. And both of those things are true.

And vice versa, James, when you go over and you shake her dad's hand and he looks at you and is like, your dad's the one that almost blew my life. Like there's just going to be some inherent awkwardness and some discomfort. And so I think the joy is doing the next right thing. And I think the resentment is, dude, I'm not even going to, this is going to sound kind of arrogant. I'm not going to give my dad the, I don't want you to give your dad even the dignity of allowing you to feel resentful. You get no votes.

I'm just gonna be pissed off that you blew it up and then i'm gonna go to the next right thing and the next Right thing in this situation is creating those moments on your own I want y'all to create what you want thanksgiving to look like then y'all make it happen And if you invite your brothers and sisters and your mom to your thanksgiving and only two of them show up That they're still going through struggles. That's fine. That's not on you guys and we're gonna be sad And then we're gonna go have a good time at thanksgiving the best we can then we're gonna go to the next one We're gonna go to the next one But what we're not gonna do is we're not gonna sit around and be victims in this deal

And we're not going to sit around and be constantly re-victimized by a dad who blew up, co-blew up two families and continues to nuke his own family because he won't own up to his lack of integrity. And I'll tell you guys, I hate this for your new marriage.

It's going to be really important that y'all are highly intentional with each other, James and the lead, that y'all don't keep secrets from each other. And y'all continue to go back to your marriage over and over and over again and be vigilant about who you allow to speak into it. Vigilant about the voices you allow in your own marriage. Because y'all are building something completely new. Completely new. And my hope, James, is your old man comes around because he's lost everything. And then all that he realizes is that he's losing everything now. All of it.

In the process, you two hang on to your dignity and your character and your respect and go make an amazing marriage. Thanks for the call. We'll be right back. I want to introduce you to my friends at Cozy Earth, the makers of the best bedding, sleepwear, and bath linens in the world.

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Okay, good folks, Lent is just around the corner. And if you haven't heard of Lent, it's a practice that goes back centuries. It's when Christians all over the world get ready for Good Friday and Easter through different kinds of prayer, meditation, and fasting. It's about getting rid of the things or habits in your life that get in your way of knowing God and of living a full, joyful life. So, let's get started.

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Hey, John, how are you? I'm fantastic. How are you? Good. Thank you. What's up? So my question, so I'll tell you a little bit of backstory. Um, so I'm married with kids and my friend is also married with kids. She told me through text that she had something she wanted to tell me, but was afraid that it was going to ruin our friendship. She ended up sharing that she has feelings for me. There's nothing on my end. Um, but I'm wondering if I should end our friendship. Have y'all had an in-person conversation yet?

We did. After that initial text, we just drove to a parking lot and we sat there and talked. Tell me how that conversation went. For me, it was incredibly awkward and a little bit uncomfortable. She just shared that she's never felt this way about a woman before. She is not sure why she feels attracted to me. I know she went through a really hard time

she went through a miscarriage and I was there for her emotionally. I wanted to support her. And so I'm not sure if she's, if she's confusing, um, vulnerability with intimacy. Like, I'm not sure why she would get her wires crossed and think that there's something there. Well, I would get out of her head. There may be, there is something there. You know what I mean? Are you trying to solve it on this end? I wouldn't spend the energy on that one. Um, I guess I appreciate her,

honesty, right? Because it gives you some pretty clear direction what to do. So tell me about your confusion about next steps. Well, I guess I just in my head, I'm like, will it be awkward now? Because like she said, she was worried telling me that would wreck our friendship. And so in my head, I'm like, I don't know that

we can remain friends or like that it can go back to normal because now it's like, I know this thing. Um, you know, there is no issue on my end. Uh, there's no going back. Yeah. So her saying that is a little bit disingenuous. I want to tell you this thing that's going to change everything, but I don't want it to change anything. Right. Right. And then I feel like a jerk if it's like, Oh, this fear that you just shared with me that this would end our friendship. Now I'm going to do that thing. Yeah. But she ended the friendship because she proposed the friendship become romantic.

If you had said, oh my gosh, I'm into this too, was she offering to start an affair or was she just putting stuff dated out on the table? Right, and that's what I don't know is like what was her expectation in telling me that. I would assume you tell somebody that because you would hope they wouldn't reciprocate. Yeah, and you heard the old saying about assuming, right? Right. So what do you want to do? I mean, I feel like the right thing would be to

And I guess I just struggle a lot with being a people pleaser and not wanting to hurt people. So let's make this a little bit easier, okay? This is a really close guy colleague that you work with. And y'all do some, y'all have been through some tough projects together. Y'all made it through layoffs together. You spend eight hours or 10 hours a day with this dude. Y'all laugh together. You tell jokes. He knows about your kids and your husband and vice versa, you know, about his wife and his kids. And then he shoots you that text.

What's your next move? Obviously to say like, I don't feel that way. This is inappropriate. You know, I'm married. This can't continue. And just to cut off communication. And there we go. And there we go. Yeah. Okay. You'll have different levels of intimacy because you're both women. You'll both been through things together and you've been with your friend through a really hard season.

But the same result is the same. If you cheat on your husband, you blow your marriage up. If you have a friend that you were vulnerable and super intimate with, and then they say, hey, I've now crossed a line in my own spirit where this is romantic for me, then in many ways, I think it's cruel for you to continue the relationship. At least as it was. Well, again, I want to stay out of her head because I don't know what she's feeling, what she's experiencing. I'm going to take her at her word. She has fallen in love with you.

And that might be so far from your planet that that doesn't make sense cognitively or logically or whatever. That's okay. She's just saying, this is true for me. I love you. I am romantically interested in you. But for you, there's the attraction part that you don't have. Fine. But I think it's deeper as you immediately rattle off if this happened to be a male coworker who is also a close friend. This is inappropriate. I'm uncomfortable. I got a family. This just ended our back and forth.

Right. I feel like it's also a little bit complicated because her husband is friends with my husband. We all know each other from church. So it's not just I'm ending the friendship with her. It's like, it's all over. And so like I told my husband what happened right away. I was like, Hey, I got this text. This is really odd. Like I was taken aback by it. And he, you know, I told him we were going to go meet up and talk. But she has not told her husband. Okay.

And I don't know if that's my place. I don't think so. I don't think so. Yeah, because I'm like, you know, what if she has a change of heart or she's like, I'm such an idiot. Like, I don't want to be responsible for blowing up their marriage. Again, she would be responsible for it. She's responsible for it. My next question was going to be what your husband say. And I was afraid you were going to say I haven't told him yet. And so the fact that you did. No, I did. That's awesome. What did he say after you all met?

After I told him that we had gotten together, my friend and I, I just told him what our conversation was. And, and yeah, I, he didn't say like, Oh, you must enter your friendship with her. He was just supportive and was like, it's good. You guys talked. And so male or female, like gay, straight. I always am faced with two things here. One, and this might sound strange to a casual listener. I'm compassionate for somebody that has the courage to say, okay,

here's what's actually going on in my soul. That doesn't mean I have to think it's right. I don't have to like it, whatever. It can mean a lot of changes in our lives, but I have compassion for somebody who just says, I got to say this. And then you can't be responsive. You can't walk around holding, oh my gosh, I ruined this stuff. Like, no, not really. I did that. No, not really. All you did was respond to the data that's in front of you, which is like, I don't have the same feelings for you. And it's cruel if I continue to

march around and we do friend stuff and we talk all the time. We text all the time. We tell each other intimate things about our lives. We sit with each other through hurt and pain and whatever. And I know that you've got deep feelings for me. I know you want to be living a completely different life than the one you're living. One where you're married to that guy, where you got those kids in that house. And by the way, who knows if that's even true, right? Right. I don't know if she wants to be living a different life.

And maybe you get further clarification. Like, Hey, what were you expecting when you told me that? I don't know what level of friendship you are. Yeah. I've been friends for a few years. And of course, you know, as girlfriends do, we talk about marriage and life and kids and all the things. And so we're pretty close. Yeah. Is it something that you can just let breathe for a while?

I can. I like to take my time and think about things and not rush to make actions or not be quick to speak. I like to take my time before I do or say something that I might regret. But for her, I think she's kind of pressuring me through text like, hey, what's happening? Where are we? Where do we stand? So I guess I feel pressure from her to make a decision. Yeah, she doesn't get a vote on that.

Yeah. I think it's fair to say, hey, you changed the dynamic of our friendship, and I'm really grateful that you told me what was going on in your heart and your mind. But now I'm uncomfortable with how to move forward, and so I just need some time. Yeah, that's fair. And I think you tell your friend I love you, and I want the best for your house and your marriage. I think your husband needs to know that you're going through some – like your partner, the person you pledged your fidelity to needs to know that his wife is struggling. Yeah.

And not that she's struggling with same-sex attraction, nothing like that, but she is struggling with, I think I've fallen in love with somebody else. Yeah, you're thinking about having that conversation or just telling her what direction I'd want our friendship to go just makes me like shake inside and makes me want to crumple in a heap on the floor. Yeah. I hate confrontation. I know, but confrontation came to you. It came to you. Yeah. And so somewhere along the way, you got the message that how you feel doesn't matter as much as how other people feel.

And in this situation, somebody came and said, hey, I have romantic feelings for you. Do you have them for me? And if you don't, you have to have the courage to say, no, I did not. And I need some space on what to do with our friendship. And maybe you'll go back and have coffee a little while later and you can sit down and ask like, hey, what were you trying to, what were you trying to, what did you want me to say? Right? Like, what would you want me to say? You know that I love my husband. You know that I love my kids. You know that I love my life and my house. Like, well, I don't know what you were hoping for here. And maybe you can dig in.

But I guess the meta here is you're allowed to be uncomfortable and you're allowed to be frustrated that you had a great friend and now that's different. And you're also allowed to be compassionate towards your friend who's clearly going through some stuff. And you're allowed to be confused on what to do next and just need time. And you're allowed to not be pressured by somebody who just said, hey, I have feelings for you. I think I love you. What about you? What about you? What about you? Like, hey, slow your roll. I don't feel the same way.

And you've changed our friendship. And so I need some time. All those things are, you're allowed. Take your time. Thanks for the call, Janet. When you feel like you want to get in a heat, don't. This is a good moment in your life to practice standing up on your own two feet. Saying, here's what I feel. Here's what I need right now. And if she's really a close friend, she'll say, I get it. I know you need some space. I know I just changed the dynamic of our friendship. I'll give you some space. Thanks for the call. We'll be right back.

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Well, I'm really grateful to be able to talk to you today. My question, I'll get right into it, is how can I leave my marriage without risking my newly sober daughter's recovery? I don't know that you can. I don't even know what the situation is, but I know that you can.

I realize that's worded kind of strangely. I guess the question really is, should I? I mean, I guess at this point I'm feeling like I really better not. But I can give you a little background if that helps. Well, before we get to the background, I don't want to complicate it because this feels pretty straightforward. Why do you need to leave your marriage? Well,

I want to emphasize that that really has nothing to do with the whole last 10 years that our family and our daughter have been through. In parallel, our marriage has had problems. I've been married for 30 years. Just tell me, why do you want to leave your marriage?

Why do you need to leave your marriage? I want to leave my marriage because I have things that I can't seem to get through or get over. And we're not talking adultery or abuse, just a lot of other things. And I feel like my husband is just extremely apathetic about the things that I think we would need to do to have a better marriage. Does he know those things?

Yes. He's just looking at you and saying... Yeah, am I doing that? He's looking at me and saying...

I don't think anything will help. Okay. He said, I don't think you will ever get over the things you're upset about. And I, I don't see that there's anything I can do, but he doesn't take any steps to end the marriage. He doesn't take any steps to do the things that, um, basically what I've been asking for is some intensive marriage counseling. And he just continually kind of

fails to act. Okay. So you're going to leave your marriage. How old is your daughter? She's 28. Does she live with you? No, she does not. How long has she been sober? Only about four months. She's been through her entire adult life. I mean, in some ways she's almost a 16 year old, even though she's 28 because she's

She hasn't had any functioning adult life. She's been through just unspeakably horrific things for the last 10 years of her life. And so I, you know, she is...

The child of our... We have four children. She's the one who really deep down family has always meant the most to our marriage. And if she detects that things aren't well, that's, I think, been more upsetting to her than the other kids. And that's why I kind of feel like I don't know that I can do anything. I mean, I just can't see risking...

her recovery. I mean, that means more to me than, than anything else, but I don't know if that's the right decision. Man, I would need a lot more context here. Okay. Just, just on the outset, the fact that you're not going to make an adult decision because of what your 28 year old daughter who doesn't live with you may or may not do.

tells me the enmeshment between y'all two and whatever other messiness that's happened over the last 10 years, 15 years, 20 years runs real deep. Because here's the deal. If your daughter is only sober at 28 years old because everyone around her is playing this sophisticated game of charades, her sobriety is going to fail in a dramatic fashion. Yeah, that's...

If she's four months sober because she is tired of the unspeakable things of her, she's just ready to be, have a different life. If you're around newly sober people who are on the path, you can't shake them off. Yeah, that makes, that makes sense. I, it sounds like there's so much more going on here. When you say unspeakable things over the last 10 years, what are you talking about? Since she was 18 years old till now.

The things that, you know, the things that women generally end up needing to do to maintain their using. She's, I mean, she's been raped. She's had to prostitute herself. She's been raped.

chained up to a safe full of drugs in a garage. She's, you know, I mean, there's been horrible, horrible things. And when I think about what she's been through, I just don't want to do anything to shake how she's doing right now. Um, the complicated thing, she, uh, is also pregnant right now. So she's got, you know, a lot of hard things coming up. Uh, uh,

I understand I need to separate, you know, my life from hers. And I, I actually do feel that I've done that very well over the last several years, but I also do feel a responsibility, I guess, in a way for, um, for what she's been through. Um, so that, that responsibility to a 28 year old will come through direct, honest conversation, compassion, and presence, not through dishonesty and lying.

Right. I mean, I don't feel like I'm being dishonest. I just feel like I'm failing. I'm just in limbo failing to act because I don't want to. I don't think you're super certain about this divorce. Like you're so frustrated and annoyed at the end of your rope, but you're looking for some external things to keep this thing hanging on because you're about to pull the ripcord on something. Yeah. And my challenge to you would be don't put that on your daughter. Right.

What do you hope is different? What would intensive marriage counseling get you and your husband? I guess I have a hard time letting go of things that I'm resentful for, and I haven't been able to do that on my own. And I haven't been able to do it because my husband, when we talk, I don't really get...

I don't really get an apology for things that have happened. I get defending of things that have happened. And then that kind of just perpetuates the resentment. Yeah, but that's an invitation. That is a choice you're making. Well, I know that in my head, but it's still there. I mean, I would love to let everything go. It's not about letting everything go. It's about metabolizing it.

Like it's in your system, right? And you think if he comes and says, I'm so sorry, you're right, I screwed this up, that somehow your feelings will suddenly dissipate, that suddenly your body will be able to digest it. Yeah. That's not how that works. Okay. You have to decide, I'm not hanging on to this anymore. I'm going to do the work that I need to do.

Because by the way, y'all are going to go get divorced. You're going to split up your assets after 30 years. You're going to divide this stuff up. You're going to figure out how to get, how to eat all this kind of stuff. Hopefully you have a job. You're going to have to apartment like everything in your life's going to change. I'm not saying that's the wrong thing. I'm just saying every single component of your life's going to change. Right. You're going to come home to an empty apartment and the things he did and said are still going to be in the middle of your chest. Whatever those things happen to be. He said he's not abusive. So I don't know what those things are, but they're there. Yeah.

And so at some point you're going to have to do the work anyway. Okay. But how do I go forward? You know, if I, I've been just endlessly debating all this in my head for honestly years. Have you sat with a counselor and said, here's the problems in my life? Yes. And what has your counselor said? Leave this man.

No, it hasn't been very helpful. Well, I've actually gone to two different ones, one with him, one without him. The one that I have done a little bit with him and then met separately with this counselor as well. So he's been to therapy with you? Very minimally.

And I've always had to make the appointment. I've always had to remind him of the appointment. And then he usually fails to act on whatever assignment we were given in the appointment. Okay, so here's what I'm hearing. Your daughter's been through absolute abject hell. You've got a lump on a log as a husband. And my guess is that there's 50 other things going on in your life too. Is it just a short phone call? Yeah.

Uh-huh. Yeah. What I want you to do for maybe the first time in your life is to get out a piece of computer paper off a printer somewhere, just a blank sheet of paper. Okay. And I want you to take a pen and not in a blaming way, please God, hear me say, it's not about blame. Okay. About ownership. What can I control here? And the beautiful thing is, is it is both humbling and limiting and terrifying.

Because you will realize I cannot control what my husband does, period. I cannot control whether my daughter stays sober or not. I don't have that kind of power. She's a 28-year-old about to be a new mother with extraordinary trauma in her past. And your other kids and your financial situation and whatever else has happened in the past.

What can I actually take ownership of right now? If my husband's a lump on a log and he's not going to change, I have a choice to make. This is my life. I'm going to make him a cup of coffee. I'm going to go about my days. He said some stuff 20 years ago, 10 years ago. I'm done carrying that around. I like him. He's annoying. I wish he'd lose some weight. I wish he would get a different job, but it is what it is what it is. Or leave.

But every day there's been a pot on the stove of old stew and you keep heating it back up. And then you just are like, ugh, you don't ever either eat it or just throw the stew out. Right. So what I want you to do is to stop being a person who's receiving all of these external things. I can't do it because of this. And he won't do that. And she might do this. And then there's this thing over here. And then I don't like the dad of the new baby. What can you take ownership of in your life? What can you control? Write that on a piece of paper.

And then begin to take action steps towards those very, very few things. Your thoughts and your actions, by the way, are all you got of what you can control, what you can impact next. That's it. That's it. And it's so frustrating at how little it is, but it's also so freeing. This is all I can go do. And before you file for divorce, have a friend sit down with you and go through finances, where you're going to live, family stuff, inheritances, vacations, holidays, everything.

and see if the juice is worth the squeeze. You've been married 30 years and he may have gone to counseling and been like, it was a waste of my time because we get home, she's just going to X, Y, the same, same, same, same, same. If you went and saw a therapist and the therapist was like, hey, why don't you just treat each other nicer? And you're like, no, that's not it. Maybe. I don't know. What can you control? What can you act on next? But if you want to leave your husband, don't put that on your daughter. And if you want to leave your husband, get some wisdom and guidance.

But I'd recommend before you go do that, taking a few other steps to see if this is really what I want to do. And if maybe by changing my thoughts and my actions and my day-to-day interactions with people and my day-to-day behaviors, suddenly the light doesn't begin to come on in this home and in my own chest and in my own room and my own life without the light coming from the blast of blowing everything up. Just a thought. Thanks for the call, Don. We'll be right back.

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All right, Kelly, am I the problem? What you got? All right, this is from Dominique. She says, my husband has never been a great gift giver. Birthdays, anniversaries, holidays. It always has me thinking of things for ideas for our family members. And he really puts no thought into any of it. When he buys things for me, I don't feel like he puts any thought or barely any into the gifts he gets me.

This year for Christmas, I gave him a list of about 10 gift ideas, all with various price ranges. The only thing from that list he got me was candy, and it wasn't even the kind I asked for. I thanked him for the gifts he did that he did get me, and I haven't said anything further. However, I'm quietly upset about his lack of effort or thoughtfulness. Do I have the right to be upset, or should I just be grateful that I got anything at all? You have the right to feel however you want to feel.

And yes, you can be frustrated. The question is, are you going to leave him? Probably not. Is this the 10th time you've given him a list and he hasn't bought on that list and that's the only problem in your marriage? Then yes, move on with your life. Just go buy the things you want to buy and move on. If there's something deeper here, have that conversation. I don't know. A couple of years ago, there was like a glitch in the matrix and...

Anyway, I ended up on Christmas morning. I had nothing open. Zero things. My family was all like, it was just a thing happened to a thing. And somebody thought I had zero. And it, I like was shockingly sad. And I was just like, this is bumming me out. I'm a grown man. It was in my house that I paid for. So it wasn't a matter of need or anything.

And I remember, oh, my wife had got me some stuff. It just hadn't arrived yet. There was a storm and whatever. Anyway, it was just a, like, this sucks. It was. And it made me do some deep diving into, in your mid-40s, if you're still waiting for your mommy and your daddy to get you that right gift, stop. You're a grown man. And, yeah, it's a bummer to be on Christmas morning and not get the, like, get a present. And, yeah.

Like, when my wife saw my face, like, she ordered stuff so early now because she knows, like, I don't ever want that to happen, even though there's a perfectly good reason why the stuff she ordered didn't make it. Like, I don't want that to happen because that sucks, right? So, I don't know, dude. It's both and. But it's okay to be bummed out you didn't get anything for Christmas except for the candy that was the wrong candy. And also, I don't know. What do you think?

I don't know if you remember, but I think it was after my birthday or Mother's Day a couple years ago. And I texted you because I had that same thing where I like to bake. And everything that I'd gotten for Christmas or my birthday or whatever it was, was kitchen stuff. And I remember having my feelings hurt because I thought...

Oh, so this is all like, y'all just go in there and bake me something, you know? And I've reached out to you and you said, well, have you ever told him? I was like, well, no, he should know. And you were like, no. And so this past year was the first year that I said something to my husband and he said, oh my gosh, I'm so sorry.

I just know you like to bake and I thought these were things you'd want. And then I was like, he's right. They were things I wanted. Yeah, when he closes his eyes, the only time he ever sees Kelly smiles when she's cooking something. So he was like, sweet. Whatever. That when you're a little bit high. But other than that, like, it's like then. Seriously. And he doesn't buy drugs because he works at the police department. So like, I'm going to get her some. I get that. Right. I get that. And I did. And then he's like, and so he was, he was.

so upset and baffled that I thought this. And then I realized, well, yeah, because he knows I love doing that and he's buying me something he loves that he thinks I'll love. And the thing was, I did like most of them, but this year he, I asked him, I said, would it help you if I gave you a list? And he said, tremendously. Now the difference is he got me almost everything on my list. Yes. And for him, it took the pressure off. I got what I wanted and it was great. And he got me a few surprises and it was great. Now,

Now she may have to have another conversation. I had to go a layer deeper and tell him why those gifts quote unquote hurt my feelings, which is stupid, but the idea of what I was feeling. And then he was like, oh, I'm so sorry. I never meant that. And then when he explained why he got me those things, I realized, oh, that's really sweet. So it was just a conversation. Yeah. I think the conversation here is not about the gifts. It's about the,

you're one of the rare men in the world that their wife gave you a roadmap to their heart. And you were like, nah, I'll take my own roads. Skittles. Right? And, or whatever crappy candy he got. And I think that's the conversation because I almost would guarantee that happens across the board. Oh, I think it happens a lot. Can you help with this? Sure. And you just shove the socks in the drawer and she's like, hey, it would really help me if you put it like this. Hey, can you help the kids get ready? They're fine. Like,

If that conversation had that conversation, if this guy is perfect and he just sucks at gift giving, let it be. And let me say this, after that year happened to me, I have become incredibly empathetic to other people in gift giving. And I realized that I was just an Amazon-er. Click on a few things and have them shipped to the house.

The last couple years, I've tried really hard to pay attention, and it's made Christmas so much more fun watching my wife and my kids light up because they're like, oh, you heard me. It's become so fun that way, right? Yeah. I don't know. I'm glad it happened to me. There's an SNL. You could look it up with Kristen Wiig where she's the mom, and it's on Christmas morning, and it's hilarious, the whole thing about her getting just a robe and

It's worth watching. Yeah. But also, you know what? If you don't like what he gets you, tell him, hey, get me gift cards and let me go shopping. That's right. Because I love to go shopping with other people's money. So tell him that. Yes. Make it easy. And the gift you got me this year, just the coffee table book of all the Metallica songs, that made me feel seen and heard. I'm glad. And also with you. And Ben, you rolled up with a lot of weed. I'm not a smoker, but I appreciate the sentiment. You're illegal. You're welcome. Call the cops. You're welcome. Bye. Bye.