I’m in Love With Two Brothers
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I am in a love triangle with my best friend's brother. And my problem is I'm not really sure how to tell her or if I should tell her. So what are you getting out of this? Because you're getting something. Spend some time just sitting there because you're about to blow up your friendship and you're about to blow up a like a family. What up? What's going on? This is John with the Dr. John Deloney show.

I'm recording this on the morning of Tuesday, the election day. So I'm assuming that we made it. I'm assuming that we made it. What do you think, Kelly? Do you think the world ever hears this episode? Yeah, I think we'll make it. I don't know that we will know who the president is, even when this airs in December. I still think it'll be litigious. That's the biggest word you've ever used. Look at you. I know.

Hang out with a couple of PhDs and everything gets... No, no, no, no. You're not taking any credit for that. I think we all know that my vocabulary is really elevated. No. So we'll find out, and I'm sure some of you will reach out to me on the Instagrams and say you were wrong or you were right. I think we know by 10 o'clock tonight. I hope so, just because I want it to be done.

I want it to be over at this point. Let me rephrase. I hope we're done by 10. I think we're done in February. I agree. But I hope we're done. Oh, my God. Let's go to Baltimore, Maryland. Save us, Taylor. Save us. What's up, Taylor? Hi, John. What's up? Nothing much. How are you? Okay. I'm running an N equals one experiment. Whenever somebody answers the phone, I just like listening to how people answer.

And when anyone says my name in a long, extended way, like you just did, you're doing something that you know is dumb. Am I right or wrong? Oh, gosh. Yeah, pretty much. Oh, sweet. Hey, John. What are you doing? What'd you do? So my problem and question to you is,

I am currently... I'm not laughing at you. This is so great. You're slow. All right, here we go. You've been thinking about this moment. You're going to say it out loud. Just say it. Yep. I haven't said it out loud until just now. Okay, cool. Let's dance. I am in a love triangle with my best friend's brothers. She has two brothers.

And currently I am in some sort of love triangle with them. And my problem is I'm not really sure how to tell her or if I should tell her or what even to do or how to go about the situation. Um,

I've been trying to like build up the courage and like sometimes like whenever we hang out, we've been hanging out a lot. Whenever we hang out, I'll be like, hey, I have something to tell you. And then she's like, okay, what? And then I just flop and I can't get it out. Like I just can't say it. I just cannot get it out. Help me with some definitions of terms. Are you sleeping with both of them?

Okay. No. Okay. We have just been, no, no, that was, sorry. Um, we've just been like texting a lot. And, um, this past weekend was obviously Halloween. So, you know, all of us being like in our early twenties, you know, I saw them out at the bars and, um, you know, just like, I don't like, yeah. She, she, she have a crush on him.

Yeah. And it, and they have expressed to me that they also have a crush on me, but they don't know. I don't, as far as I know, they do not know that both of them have a crush on me and I have a crush on both of them. So what are you getting out of this? Cause you're getting something. I, I don't really, you do spend some time just sitting in it because you're about to blow up your friendship and you're about to blow up a, like a family.

Yeah, that's what I'm nervous about. So I'm not really sure exactly how she would feel about it. Me and her have been best friends for seven, going on eight years. So like we've been best friends for a really long time. So I'm not exactly sure on if she would be okay with it, even in the first place. The fact that you have been best friends with her for seven years and you can't tell her tells me.

Yeah. My brother-in-law was my friend before I knew his sister. And he said, hey, this pains me to say this, but I think you're going to marry my sister. And I want you to date her. And I was like, this is the weirdest conversation. And then he went on to say, I can't be your friend right now while you're dating my sister. And I was like, that's weird. And he was right. But here's the thing. Like, we were friends for 18 months or a year, right? And so you being best friends with someone for seven or eight years, you know.

Yeah. You know that it will blow that up and fine. Blow it up for love. Do what you want to do. Here's the thing. You have a crush on two guys. Yeah. And that's fine. Have as many crushes as you want to. You're in your early 20s. Crush away. It's the person you are revealing yourself to be.

Yeah. As someone who keeps secrets from their best friends, someone who keeps secrets between brothers, someone who lies to one brother over another, someone who's becoming somebody that she didn't know she was capable of becoming in a negative way. Mm-hmm. And no love. No love is worth your integrity. Oh, yeah. You really got me there. You really got me there. So if you're not sleeping together and you're not making out with these guys and you're just hanging out, like...

A, it's not, I wouldn't call it a love triangle. I would just stop using that language. It's kind of just like, it's exasperated TikTok language. But like, you have a crush on two guys who happen to be brothers. Do you like the idea of having secret crushes on two brothers? Or do you actually think, I could have a relationship with either of these guys?

I do not like the idea really at all, but I really do think I could be in a pretty good relationship with really either one of them. They're both very, very good young men, in my opinion, I think so. Well, great. Yeah. So what are you going to do?

That's kind of what I'm here to ask you. Do you think I should just kind of call it all off and like call it a day? I think you're overblowing it. What am I getting wrong? I feel like you're way overblowing it. I just, I think it's the fact that like she's my best friend and like this has been going on since, geez, like the beginning of August. But you keep saying, what's going on? You're texting them? Yeah. Are you sending topless pictures to them?

No, no. Are you secretly making out with them? I guess I have made out with one of them, yes, technically, yes. And again, I'm trying to just get to the, so he's talking to you specifically, and he doesn't know that you're also talking to his brother? Yeah. Does he talk about you to his brother? I mean, I'm assuming not. I feel like if he was, one of them would have said something by now.

Have you heard the old thing about the word assume? Yeah. Yeah, I wouldn't assume anything because assume makes an ass out of you and me. Yeah. Right? I wouldn't assume anything. So yeah, I mean, I don't see a world where you're not lacking integrity. I mean, put it this way. If you had a crush on somebody since August, you've been talking to them, you made out with them, in any other circumstance, would she know about this person?

Um, yeah. Yeah. So you're like, you're intentionally withholding. It's being dishonest. Yeah. Don't be that person. Tell the truth. Okay. Then I'll go tell her. I, I, I don't know, man. I,

Yeah, it's just like really, it's really like, it's like really hard to comprehend like everything. Like even for me, like I haven't told anyone about this because like, like all, obviously if we're best friends, all of our friends are also. No, that tells me you're ashamed of it. What are you ashamed of? I'm just ashamed of the fact that like I've been hiding it.

I'm like, not like I'm talking to two guys that, you know, not only am I talking to two guys, like they're related, they're brothers. Like there's just like a lot like that goes on top of it. Yeah. But you're at the epicenter. I would just, I would look in the mirror and say, I'm going to stop being this person. And that means I'm going to be a person who doesn't hold secrets from my best, best, best friends. Even when I want to go to her and say, Hey, I have a crush on your brother because I'm like,

I'm thinking of my four or five best friends that are guys, that are grownups. I would love it if they had not, I mean, they weren't all in long-term marriages. I would love it if they dated my sister. Yeah. It'd be weird and I'd make fun of them all the time. But I would love it if they dated my sister because I know what kind of caliber person they are.

Yeah. Right. And so I don't have a psychology for like, that's my brother. Like, man, if it's your best friend, who else would I want other than somebody that I know and trust and whatever? Unless, you know, yeah, I've got a bag of secrets that she knows and she's not going to want me around her brothers. Or I have a history of not telling her the truth. She doesn't want her brothers around a girl like me.

Yeah. And that's like kind of another thing. Like since we've been friends for so long, I've been around them while they've had other girlfriends. And like, she's come to me talking about things that she just hates about them. Like, you know, just digging into them as most siblings would, you know, all her brothers are older. So, you know, she just talks about, you know, everything she hates about, you know, their current girlfriend or at the time their current girlfriend. That's her job. She's the youngest sister, right? Yeah.

Yeah. They're supposed to be judgy of their girlfriends. No one's ever going to be good enough for their big brother. Except maybe her best friend. Yeah, maybe. Maybe. But regardless, I want you at the young age of 20 to begin practicing, I'm not going to keep secrets from my friends. I'm not going to split families up over, not even over love, over this feeling of I'm getting away with something.

And this feeling of somewhat of control, you got some little puppet master thing going on here where she doesn't know brother. Number one doesn't know, but the number two doesn't know I'm kind of in control of this thing. I hooked up with brother number one a little bit, but number two, it's get out of that business, man. Cause here's the thing. It robs you of your dignity and it robs you of your sleep.

And sleep and peace are in short supply these days. And so I'm optimizing not for the best interest rate. I'm not optimizing for the best. How is this going to feel, Max? I am optimizing for peace, period. But yeah, I'd have that conversation and I'd do it today because it's eating you alive. And then I'd have a conversation with both of the brothers and say, yeah, I don't know this. I've been talking to both of you and I'm sorry. I was wrong.

I really want to date you or I really want to date you. But I'm going to have this conversation, but make your call. I almost be willing to bet you're going to lose all three of them for a time period and probably she'll come back. And I think that's probably right. That's probably right. Or maybe one of the brothers says, nope, I pick, I pick Taylor, the girl who was also texting my other brother. I pick her over my brother. And then if he does pick you over his brother, I would, I would ask more questions because I,

I don't know if that's a guy you want to hit your wagon too long term either. But that's another phone call. Y'all can call me when y'all make that decision. Have the conversations today, sister. Thanks for the call. We'll be right back. Okay, okay. It's time to talk about Organifi.

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Let's go out to Greenville, South Carolina and talk to It's a Shame About Ray. Hey, Ray, what's up? Hey, how are you? So good. How are you? I'm doing well. Thank you. I'm calling to ask this question. How can I be everything that my husband needs me to be right now while also taking care of myself in a very difficult season of life?

Normally, I would have a more eloquent response to this, but it sounds like there's something deeper. Yes. All right, what's going on?

Um, so I'm 28. My husband is 27. Um, we've been married for two and a half years. Um, and so he's a med student last summer. Um, he started to get really sick and was throwing up every day. Um, but that was leading up to the step two, um, test, which is a medical board exam that they had to take in med school. Um, and so we didn't think much of it. It's pretty normal for him to get

anxiety, like physical anxiety symptoms. But then after this, he finished his test and he got his grade back and his grade was good. The symptoms didn't stop. And so we were like, okay, something is...

is going on. Um, and so the, I'm a teacher and the day before the first day of school, I was like, look, we've got to go to the emergency room because I'm not going to be able to like help you out. Like while I'm teaching, like I'm not going to be able to answer my phone if you're feeling really sick, things like that. So we went to the emergency room and he was thinking maybe something was wrong with his gallbladder. Cause he's having like right upper quadrant pain, whatever. Um, so they did an ultrasound and they saw some

some dark spots in his liver. They did a CT scan in the emergency room. They found about 10 lesions in his liver. We got transferred over to the oncology unit. And the next day, this was August 2nd of this year. So just a couple of months ago, they found a tumor in his esophagus. So the whole day before they found the tumor, we were praying like lymphoma or maybe it's just in the liver, but

with finding the tumor in the esophagus, you know, we found out at stage four. Yeah. And so we talked to the oncologist, he gave a prognosis of a year and a half to two years. And this is talking to a 27 year old man and his 28 year old wife. Um, and you know, prognosis is just averages. And, you know, he said that he's hoping and praying that that's not going to be the case. Cause most people with esophageal cancer are like,

Like 60, 70 year old men. So there's hope and things have been getting better. We started treatment. He's done five or six rounds of treatment now. We got a CT scan a couple of weeks ago and showing minor, I don't know if you hear my dog, I'm sorry. Minor shrinkage, like millimeters. So there's good news. But anyway, I say all that to say, I have been,

completely pouring myself out to him is I feel like I should in this season. I don't think that's a bad thing, but I also am neglecting myself and I want to be sure that I'm taking care of myself so that I can be the best I can be to take care of him. Um, and so I just kind of wanted to get your thoughts on what I should be doing. Yeah. Good gosh, dude. Have you just been going and going and going and going or have you had your moments?

I've had some moments. I'm overall like a pretty positive, upbeat person. And so, um,

Like I think overall, I'm usually like that still. I've definitely had my moment. So, you know, I'm trying to work. I'm working three or two to three days a week, which is really hard being a teacher working two to three days a week. They put my kids on online classes. So when I go into work, I'm just like observing them doing online since I can't like be a good teacher right now. I'm getting my master's and I haven't stopped getting my master's. So I'm like, I'm loaded. You need to stop. Okay. Yeah. Why don't you take a break?

Yeah. Take a break from school. And any of your graduate school professors, um, for a season, almost all of my friends were college of education, graduate school professors. Okay. Yeah. And they'll give you a break. They'll let you take incompletes for the semester. Um, or actually, you know what, you're running up on the semester. So you might as well just finish. Yeah. And then I would, I would take a leave for the spring. Yeah. Because, um, one of two things is going to happen. The doctor is going to be right.

And you have a precious 365 days left with your ride or die. Yeah. Or he's going to be wrong. And part of him being wrong will be that you had the strength and capacity and spirit to be anchored in when your husband was rappelling off the edge, peering over to the other side. Yeah. In all those cases, dude, get a freaking master's degree later. Yeah. Right? Yeah. And...

I think your husband won the lottery getting you as his wife. Okay. Thank you. I also think there's this weird balance that happens where it's one of those things that every day is a new, is a win. And every day might be one day closer. Right? So every morning, every sunrise is the greatest gift ever. And oh crap, there'll only be a few of these left.

Yeah. And if he doesn't see you cry with him, and I don't mean just get choked up. I mean, actually let this penetrate your... I mean, you've created this pretty amazing shell for yourself. My shell is sarcasm and sadness and like my chemical romance. Yours is joy. So I would trade with you in a heartbeat. But...

What will happen as this thing progresses and makes its move closer and closer to that magic finish line when the doctor put on the table is he'll feel crazier and crazier, not closer and closer. And so I want you to think in terms of we're going to celebrate together and we're going to weep together. And I'm going to hold his arms up when he can't. There's going to be occasions that I'm going to give him the greatest gift a wife can give a husband, and that is to curl up in his arms and sob and let go.

Let him feel that his strength matters. Yeah, it's both and okay Denying him denying him your sadness won't be a gift and I know it feels like it is right He doesn't like he doesn't need to think about this too, right? Yeah, trust me ray. He's thinking about it, right? and so, um, I I I Man, I got so many things I would recommend to you I'd recommend keeping a journal starting today. If you haven't i'd write every day Every day. Um I would um

make playlists. I would find a couple of like, we're going to plan a thing every day, whether it's five minutes or two minutes or seven minutes. It's just like us playing a card game or us doing something silly or us doing something that's not medical bill related and pick line related and

measurement related you know what I'm saying that's not in the business of not dying which is that you know that's like this weird new job you all have right yeah yeah you'll have and I'm being real technical here and I'll get to the soft stuff here in a second do you have a will and all that stuff lined out

No, but he doesn't have anything because he's a med student. He's never even had a job. So everything we have is mine anyway. You know what I mean? Like legally. Until he has a sister that doesn't want to believe he's gone and sues you for everything. And I've just done this long enough. I would at least get online and go to Mama Bear Wills. It's an online will. Okay. And just write it out. It's like $30. It's amazing. Okay.

When I moved from Texas to Tennessee, before I had met with like an estate planner and all that kind of stuff, that's what I did just because they don't go state to state. But it simply puts in writing in a legal document, all my stuff is hers. Okay. And nobody can sue you. I mean, they can sue you for it, but nobody can take it from you. Yeah. And it might be clothes. It might be his guitar. It might be his pictures. You don't ever know what somebody's going to try to come get. Some weird cousin somewhere or somebody's mom just flips a switch. Yeah.

And so there's these little things like making sure your name's on all of the accounts. Yeah. Making sure that you do not consolidate his med school debt if he's got any. Yeah. Right? Don't do that. Yeah, don't do that. I think, I haven't checked in a few years, but I think medical debt is still dischargeable if somebody passes away. And then we're going to fight like bloody hell. And the only way you can do that is if you're whole and well.

Yeah. So what is, what does whole and well look like for Ray? I don't know. I don't know community and, and taking time for myself, I guess. But I mean, it's also him. And like, I think that the idea of writing a will like just makes me, it's like accepting defeat, you know, I had my friend John King once told me the only reason you should not have a will is if you hate your wife and kids.

Yeah. So in fact, it's not admitting defeat. It's building a foundation that we're going to build our house upon. Yeah. So it's actually the opposite. I get what you're feeling. I get what you're like, okay, we're gonna start making last plans. No, no, no, no. The day everyone gets married, they should have a will. Yeah. Just because you never know. A ring or a brush or I mean, you find yourself in the fight for the stupidest thing sometimes. Sure. Do you have a group of women that you get together and meet with on a regular basis?

Um, not regularly. I do have, I do have my community. Um, I think recently I've definitely put that on the back burner and that's something that I should probably pick up. And we're going to do two things. We're going to make it weekly and we're going to open a text thread. There's going to be four to five women that you trust. Okay. And I want you to tell them personally, I'm putting you on my, I can't handle this list. Okay. And I want you to make two commitments to your friends.

I want you to be honest with them and I want them to make a commitment they will always answer the text. Okay? Yeah. And by the way, it will give your friends such a gift because they don't know what to do right now.

Yeah, I'm afraid to burden them with this. I try not to bring it up too much. It would be such a blessing to them because they're spinning around you wondering how they can love you and they don't know how because you're positive, Ray. And Ray's always like, we're working on it and things are going good. And they want to love Ray and they don't know how. And this is you saying, okay, I can't carry all this. Yeah. And so I'm going to text you at 10 a.m. I'm going to text you at 2 a.m. And...

Here's my commitments. Number one, I'm never going to lie to you. I'm going to be honest all the time. And number two, if I need something, I will ask. That way you can lob a grenade in the middle of the night. It's 2 a.m. and you wake up and you're looking at your husband sleeping and he's snoring a little bit and you start crying so hard wondering where's God that you can text your friends that at 2 a.m. and they don't try to solve anything. They don't need to solve it.

Yeah. But you can say, where's God? I don't know what to do right now. Hey, can somebody meet me for coffee in the morning? And they will say yes. Yeah. Okay. And will you commit to taking morning walks? Yeah. Yeah, I can do that. Okay. Why don't you get outside and move around? Do you have a dog?

Yeah, I've got two. Gosh, thank God. Okay, you are going to be the dog walkiest person of all time, okay? I can do that. Okay. We all keep a journal together too, by the way? Yeah, what would that look like? That's you overpaying for something. I want you to get something legacy that you'll hold on to for the rest of your life. Yeah. Like a fancy leather-bound something or other. I don't want you to put it on each other's pillows.

Yeah, and when it's on his pillow, he knows that you've written in it and when it's on your pillow You know, he's written in it and the commitment is we won't let 24 hours go before we write in it Well, yeah, we can do that and it can be things i'm scared about things I love about you things I noticed yesterday things i'm terrified about Things I am really excited not the mystic about it'd be all of it Okay, things will get harder and weirder to say. Yeah, okay um

I'm debating on whether to tell you this now. I'm going to use your example, if that's okay, to talk to everybody. Is that fair? Yeah. Okay. I'm going to lead with number one. I'm going to be the most optimistic guy in your corner that this thing gets itself worked out. Yeah. That your husband's young and healthy and the doctors are doing some wild things with cancer these days and that they are able to turn a pretty amazing corner. Okay? Yeah.

Now I want to say, here's the other side of the thing. Okay. Often when you're sitting in a doctor's office and they say you have, I'm making up a thing, but you have one year, you have 18 months. You look at the person next to you and you think you have 18 more months of that person. And what people don't often calculate or take into consideration because it's their first time is they begin to lose parts of the person that they love.

Yeah. Okay. And so if there was a heartbreaking 18 months left, the last two months are really tough and the last six months are scary. Okay. Here's what I'm telling you that don't waste any moments now. Yeah. Cool. Cool. I try not to think about that, but I know it needs to be thought about. I know. I know. And that's, that's the, if the, if your finish line with him is sooner than, than anyone would ever wish on anybody.

I want you to cross that finish line with your head up knowing there was not a single thing unsaid. There was not a single action untaken. Yeah. There was not a single ounce of love not spoken into the universe. And those things unsaid, we're just going to say them. And maybe that's what that journal is. It's the unsaid journal. Do you have any life insurance? I mean, the scary stuff, right?

Yeah, no. Listen, not planning on a worst-case scenario is not going to help avoid the worst-case scenario, and it's not admitting defeat. It's just being smart. Yeah. And what you're having to face is what every single person who says, I do, will ultimately face one day. And I've had this same conversation with 75-year-olds. Do you have a will? No. Good God, make a will, right? So you're not crazy. Yeah. Okay.

I know that we often change names and locations on this. If people are the praying type, do you mind saying his name? Just his first name? Yeah, his name's Hunter. Hunter, okay. People are the praying type and listening to the show, I hope you'll pray for Hunter.

And if you're not the praying type, I hope you will put out good vibes for Hunter or whatever it is you do. Dance in the woods. I don't know what you'll do, but put out something good for Hunter. And will you keep us, Ray? Will you keep us, let us know how things are going? I would love to. Yes. Thank you so much. Tell Hunter he can call anytime too. Okay. Absolutely. I would love to. Is that cool?

Yeah. Thank you. Blessing sister. Um, man, we are absolutely rooting for you and we are rooting for Hunter. Yeah, I believe it. We wish you guys the absolute best. We'll be right back.

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Hey, John, I'm doing really good. I'm super excited to talk to you this morning. What's going on? Yeah, so I just have a question. My question is, how do I move past the distress of knowing that my mom watches pornography? What? Yeah. What? How old are you? I'm 21. How old's your mom?

She is 47, 48. Yeah. Okay. So she's young. Yeah. All right. No, I'm so sorry. She's like, I'm thinking of someone else. Sorry. She is in her fifties. She is in her like mid fifties. Sorry about that. Okay.

Yeah, so... How did you find out? Is she just chilling at the dinner table being like, yo, you gotta check out Pornhub, it's so great. How'd you find out? So a few years ago when I was in high school, my brother...

um, was being curious and was on her phone and, you know, kids are Snoopy. So he was on her phone looking at her tabs and he, he saw Pornhub on there and, um, yeah, yeah. And he was like, Oh my gosh. And he looked at me and he goes, mom is watching pornography. And I was like, Oh my gosh. Okay. Um,

And so my sister... By the way, hold on. If you watch this, I'm laughing right now. I'm not laughing that adult women watch pornography. I'm just laughing at two kids sitting around finding mom's phone and just being like, dude, mom watches porn. Like, that just seems like out of a... You know what I mean? That's like... I don't hear that very often. Even like finding dad. It's like, ooh, dad looks at porn. Like, ooh...

Most people don't have a psychology for, oh, dude, mom. Oh, mom doesn't even clear her history on her own phone. Like, oh, no. Right? Right. Yeah, it was pretty weird. And so, like, I would ask my sister over the course of a few months because it's

bothered me so bad. I could not stop thinking about it. I, whenever I was around her, that's all I could think about. And I would ask over the course of a couple of years, I told nobody because it just felt really taboo and very, um, embarrassing on her part too. And on my family's side. So like I would ask my sister, I'd be like, Hey, like, does this like,

bother you in any way and she was like I try not to think about it I'm like it bothers me really bad and um so my June no going into my summer of my junior year of college I told my dad I was like I have to tell my dad I can't like he needs to know this. Are they still married?

Yeah. Yep. They're still married. Okay. Um, so I had to tell my dad, I was like, dad, I just, I sat down with him. It was just me and him in the living room. I said, mom is watching pornography. And we found it like a year or two ago on her phone. And he was like, Oh, and he got very defensive and he said, Oh, well, um,

You know, you have your own problems. Have you ever watched it? And in high school, I struggled with it like pretty bad. I don't anymore. It's been years. So I was like, well, yeah, in high school I did. And he goes, well, you have nothing like anything.

don't worry about it like you have your own problems too and it was weird because that was like from my past and it that was a lame move that was a lame yeah so by the way like so i'm laughing here i'm not anymore but i was laughing earlier there's another layer to this which is this is something you personally struggled with also as a kid and when you're a kid struggling pornography you had that extra layer of feeling dirty and shameful right and

Right. Can you just bathe in secrets? And like, and especially if you're a young woman, I hear this a lot. Like if you're a young woman, it's supposed to be something that boys wrestle with. Oh yeah. And then there's an extra layer of, Oh, something's wrong with me. Right. And so you've wrestled with this and then to find on your mom's phone as a trip and then have your dad throw your childhood back in your face is gross, dude. I'm sorry.

Yeah. Yeah. That's my dad as a whole. Another. I imagine so. I imagine so. So, so bring me to right now. So you went to a safe person, the safe person blew it back at you.

Yeah. Um, well, can I talk about one more thing before we go into that? Cause it's actually really important. So I did actually talk to my mom about it. Um, we did have a conversation. I told her, I said, mom, I know that you were watching pornography. Um, and at the time I had done research on pornography and the effects of it and how, um,

bad it is. And, um, she, um, was like, Oh, I'm very sorry. There's always that one thing that you go back to. And then after that, we just hadn't really talked about it. Um, and like right now I feel like I just, how long, how long ago is that? Um, that was probably maybe a little over a year, almost two years now. Do you still live at home?

No, I am married. I live with my husband. So let's move mom to the side for a second. Why is this rooted itself in your soul so bad?

I think it's because sometimes when me and my husband are intimate, like my body is reacting to him. And then I'll get this intrusive thought of my mom and like disturbing images. And at the same time, my body is reacting to my husband. Yeah. I'm also, it's just, I hate it. Yeah.

And I, sometimes when I'm like just in my daily life, that's all I think about sometimes. And it can go on for hours and it makes me feel very disturbed. Yeah. Do you, um, ruminate over other things too? Um, I actually do have OCD. I was going to say, yeah, yeah. Um,

So here's what that tells me. Like, so you've painted a pretty, pretty good picture of the house you grew up in. The fact that a dad would ever, you know what I'm going to talk about him. Um, your body's been on alert since you were a little girl. Fair. Oh my gosh. Yeah. Okay. That is very fair. So especially when OCD manifests itself outside of physical behaviors and it's into looping thoughts, um,

you can you you feel like you're losing control of your mind like it makes you feel insane right oh yeah like i'm having great sex with my new husband and i just pictured my mother right and you feel nuts right yeah definitely okay listen to me you're not crazy yeah okay i want you to i want you to let that like i'll say it even more direct there is nothing wrong with you okay okay

You're not somehow like some sort of twisted. There's nothing. Your body's trying to keep you safe. Do you have any sort of abuse? Did you experience abuse growing up at all?

So the funny thing about this is I didn't know that I was abused until I started talking to my husband about it because he grew up in a very healthy household. I mean, every household has their issues. We've talked about stuff in his family that we don't agree with. But yeah, there was my dad. Everyone, everyone throws around the term narcissist like it's candy nowadays. But my dad is

is actually the textbook definition of a narcissist. Tell me about what happened. Yeah, so growing up, he was very short-tempered. He has his own. The reason why he's like this is because... Hey, Hannah, Hannah, Hannah, tell me what happened. Yeah, so... Hold on, take a deep breath, deep, deep, deep breath. Okay. Your chest is tightening up. I can feel it through the phone. Yeah, you're right. Exhale. Exhale.

Okay. If you don't want to talk about it, that's okay. You don't have to. Yeah, I think I'm okay to talk about it. Okay. Let me say this. If you tell me something that I have to report, I'm going to report it. Okay. Okay? Okay. And my team here will call the police if it needs to be called on your dad. Yeah. Okay. Do you hear what I'm saying? Yes, I do. Okay. Yeah, I think...

There was a lot of it was just verbal, you know, like, oh, you're, you're terrible, awful children. And then when you hear that, you know, it kind of, I've done a lot of healing through it. I guess I don't necessarily feel comfortable going into like. Okay. That's good. A lot of detail, but I didn't recognize. Yeah. Here's what I want you to, I want you to, I want you to put your, your hand. I want you to take an open hand.

I want you to put it right on the top of your chest, right below your neck, okay? Okay. And press there pretty hard. And then I want you to relax your arm. Okay. For some reason, vulnerability, being naked, being seen, your body has put a GPS pin in that that that is not safe. Mm-hmm. That letting you, your husband, and letting you be fully seen and experienced is not safe.

Yeah. And it will try to shut your body down. It will try to shut everything down. And if it can't shut your body down, it will shut your mind down. It will spin it up like a fishing reel that someone takes their thumb off of and it just turns into a big bird's nest. Right? Yeah. It's just your body trying to keep you safe because it's been to hell. It lived there for a long time. Yeah. And the guardian of your hellscape was named Dad. Yeah. And by the way, damn it, Mama's supposed to protect you and she didn't. Right. Okay? Yeah.

Right. Exhale in that. Okay. So intrusive thoughts like lightning bolts, my goodness, they're the worst. Yeah. Yeah, it is. Um, with OCD, I actually, in that area of my life, um, I didn't know what OCD was. Um,

YouTube helped me figure it out because I had, they call it pure O and it's terrible. It's all in your head. It's all obsessive. It's more... Have you been to see a doctor? I was visiting with a therapist during my college years, but she wasn't really...

I'm qualified to talk about OCD if that makes sense. She didn't really help me much. Okay, so I want you to listen to me super careful. Here's why I know so much about it. It's exactly what I have, diagnostically and everything. Okay? I have little tics like counting locks and checking my doors at night a bunch of times and stuff like that that are just whatever. Yeah. But the main thing that haunted me for years was the looping thoughts that I couldn't get to stop.

Right. Yeah. And they would show up at insane times. Right. Okay. You aren't crazy, but you got to go sit with a medical professional and here's what they will probably do for you. If you've listened to the show for any time, you know, I want to solve these problems. Initially, I want to solve them with exercise and with diet and with relationships. That's, that's my bent on everything. And for me,

I let them run for so long that my alarm systems were just bonkers. And I got a low-level SSRI that turned the alarms way down. The looping thoughts still happened, but they were way, way quieter. And what they allowed me to do was to sit with a counselor, sit with a couple of close mentors that I trusted and begin to challenge the thoughts. And I got stronger and stronger and stronger. And right now,

For years, Hannah, I can tell you, I'm good. I cannot describe to you the peace on the other side of what you experienced. Right. Yeah. Do you believe me? Oh, yeah, definitely. And the reason for that is because I still go through...

bouts of OCD here and there. It doesn't always go away. But in high school, actually, my senior year was the worst. It was, I went completely numb. My body just shut down because of how distressing the thoughts were. Yes. But listen to me. And I didn't know what it was. Listen, they'll circle back. Yeah. Okay. I want you to consider for the first time

choosing healing and over choosing survival. Because it sounds like you're married to a safe guy, good guy. Oh yeah. He's very, very safe. Okay. So you've unanchored from the nonsense at home. Let your mom watch what your mom's going to watch. She's 55 years old. She can make whatever choices she wants to, however destructive they are. You don't have to participate in that. Or let me say it another way. You can't impact her behavior one iota.

So every second you spend thinking about it, ruminating on it, challenging it, wondering what you can do is a choice to be miserable in the present. And people who have OCD, who have anxiety disorders get mad at me when I say that because it makes it sound like they're making a choice. And in a weird way, we all are. And the choice I want to present to you is choose about a year and a half of hard work.

Yeah. Yeah. You have to teach your body that you weren't okay and now you are safe. Right. And I think too, like if, um, cause I have been thinking about therapy for a long time. Um, I would really want to dive in with a therapist too about my family life. I have never talked to a therapist really in depth about how I grew up and stuff like that. Will you make the call today? Yeah.

Yeah, I think I will. I'm not going to force you, but listen, I hear it on you and I hear myself in your voice. And I cannot tell you how light and free it is on the other side. Right. And it sounds insane to you because all your body can think is, how do I stay safe? Right. And I want to tell you, man, going from playing defense your whole life to suddenly playing offense is such a major gift. It's amazing.

And you'll find it financially. You'll find it relationally. You'll find it in your marriage. You'll find it when you start having kids. You'll find it everywhere. And by the way, when you have your first kid, you're going to have different alarms ringing. Yeah, I can imagine. And the first time you find something weird on your husband's phone, your alarms are going to take off on you. You know what I'm saying? Right. And so what a therapist is going to give you, what a physician is going to give you. By the way, I was medicated for a season. Okay. So that I could go to the work.

I haven't taken anxiety meds in years and years and years and years and years. Yeah. Okay. And if, even if I had to, that's not a bad thing. Right. Yeah. But they did turn the alarms down so that I could go do the necessary work. And Hannah, it sucked. Yeah. You know what I mean?

- Yeah, I've never been on medication before. When I was young, I went to the hospital for having an anxiety attack and then they just gave me these pills and then I never, my mom wouldn't let me take them. - So listen, I want you to look in the mirror and say to yourself out loud, Hannah's worth being well. - Yeah.

And well for you is going to feel like you're free finally. And you're going to have to find some distance between your mom and your dad. And that sounds scary right now, even though your body knows they're not safe. It's just going to take a process. I just want you to trust, trust, trust the process. So make a call today. You're worth that. Your husband's worth that, quite frankly. Your future kids are worth that. You're just overall joy and peace. You haven't had peace in your whole life. So you don't even know what it feels like.

There's just something magic about drinking coffee because you want to, not because you have to. There's something magic about just falling asleep in your own bed just because you're tired. There's something amazing about checking the locks a third and a fourth time and then just being like, I'm going to bed. It's hard to even wrap your head around. We're not having an intrusive thought for years and years and years and years and years and years. Healing is possible. Hang on the line. I'm going to send you a copy of Building a Non-Anxious Life. For you, I'm going to send you two of them, one for you and one for your husband. I want you all to read them together.

I want you to both read them, and I want you to use it as a roadmap for your family, this new family you're building. Because you don't have a map right now. All you have is what you've experienced growing up. You're still really young. I want you all to use this as a map, the choices that you can make to begin to build a non-anxious, a non-spun-up, a peaceful life. Hang on the line, sister. I've got your call anytime. But here's my call to you and everyone else struggling right now.

Make the call. Make the call. Call a professional. Thank you, Hannah. We'll be right back. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp.

All right.

Whatever your perfect night looks like, therapy can feel a little bit like that. The time when you can settle in, replenish your energy, and take care of yourself. Therapy is a great way to bring yourself some comfort during the chaos and rush of the holiday season or any other time of year.

Taking the time to pause and be mindful is one big reason why I recommend BetterHelp. BetterHelp is 100% online therapy with licensed therapists. You can talk with your therapist just about anywhere so it's convenient for your schedule. You just fill out a short online survey to get matched with a therapist, and you can switch therapists at any time for no extra cost.

Find comfort this December with BetterHelp. Visit betterhelp.com slash Delaunay to get 10% off your first month. That's betterhelp, H-E-L-P dot com slash Delaunay. All right, we're back. So for people who, like so many people consume this show like in clips, right? They watch just a clip of a call and it gets spun up in the algorithms. But for people who are with us the whole show, a couple of things I want to clear up for today's show. One, Kelly, you're super sleuthing. You're like,

Rarely do I leave here being like, well, Kelly pulled her weight today. But you found that you found a connection with Mama Bear Wills. Right. And you hooked up that collar, the second collar, with Free Will. Yes. We are giving Ray a Free Will. Amazing. Yes. Good call on that. Such a huge thing that she needs to do because it'll still – even if –

you know, he doesn't have anything. It'll still go through probate. It'll still be, there's a lot of things. So yeah, we're going to hook her up there. And often, again, I want to remind people when it comes to getting, making a will. Number one, everyone should have them. Even if you think you have nothing, have one. The second thing is, it's often not the spouse. It's often not the kids. It's somebody else's cousin. It's somebody's mom's brother's sister that you, somebody passes away and it triggers something and it's,

It just becomes a nightmare. And if you have a will, you're not having to go to court to keep your husband's painting of you, right? Or to keep your wife's ukulele that you bought her. Like it's just a strange thing that people will fight over when people have passed away. They just, it changes people. So just have a will. And here's the second thing.

Um, I think it's important to call out like that last call. Like my mom's looking at pornography. That was a funny, like good gosh, dude, you imagine looking at your phone and be like, Oh my gosh. And I fell into it. So I just want to call this out. I fell right into it, which is I start laughing, making jokes. Well, it turns out I'm struggling with mom's pornography because of my own abuse.

and my own challenges and so that's just a reminder to myself to always be gracious and humble people especially when you like see them on the show or you see them out in public you're doing what like man there's also often a story underneath the story underneath the story so um man uh that last caller she was very very very brave and i'm proud of her and hope she gets the the help and care that she needs and good reminder to me don't make my my default setting uh laughing i don't know sometimes it's good

I'm going to remember that. That doesn't count with you. Ben, yes. Taylor, yes. Nate Dogg, eh, maybe. Kelly, no chance. And by the way, somebody reached out on Instagram and was like, oh my gosh, I heard Kelly's leaving. If I find out via Instagram that you quit this show. We wish. Where would I go? I know. Where'd you go? You're at the helm of a C-level podcaster. I know. I mean, there is no up from here. This is it. There's a lot of up, America. Love you guys. Bye.